Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / September 2003
I'M NOT AN EPILEPTIC
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Toygirl - 20 Sep 2003 15:36 GMT BlankBy popular medical definition, a person who has more than two seizures, brought about by an abnormal electrical discharge of brain cells, has epilepsy. My wife, who has seizures, however, is not an epileptic. After reading and re-reading the following, I came to the conclusion that labeling a person as an epileptic, is no different than calling someone a racial name, a high school drop-out, and so on - only the name is different. It's still a label inferring that the person is a second-class citizen, and of lesser value than someone who is 'normal' or 'accepted'. It also says 'you are an epileptic first and all other values associated with you come afterwards'. While our close friends and family are sensitive to this, other acquaintances & associates aren't. When you refer to someone as an epileptic, you're lowering their self-esteem and sabotaging their efforts to maintain/regain control of their life. Epilepsy has enough accompanying difficulties - please don't compound those problems by using inappropriate labels. ____________________________________________
Labeling is Disabling "I'm not an epileptic! I'm a person with epilepsy! And don't you ever forget it!" These words were flung at the Epilepsy Foundation's newly hired executive director, David Blackwell, 20 years ago. And he's never forgotten it. You can almost see him flinch when someone today calls a person an epileptic. This is not a matter of being "politically correct." People are individuals - whether you have a disability or not - and people don't like labels. Labels stereotype and are limiting. The board member who taught Blackwell this lesson explained that "epilepsy is what I have, not what I am." Instead of epileptic, say "person with epilepsy" or "child with epilepsy." This places the focus on the whole person, not on just one characteristic. As an adjective, "epileptic" is o.k. such as "anti-epileptic medication." Avoiding stereotyping and showing a bit of sensitivity demonstrates common respect. Other inappropriate terms or usages may include fit, control, disease. "Fit" is commonly used to describe seizures in Canada and other English-speaking countries of the Commonwealth. In the U.S., the connotation of fit is mental derangement or loss of emotional control or symptoms of rabies. "Seizure" is preferred to "fit." Seizures are controlled with medication; persons with epilepsy are not. And lastly, epilepsy is a disorder rather than a disease. It is a symptom of an underlying cause(s) that can affect the brain. Not all seizures are epilepsy and many people prefer to call epilepsy a seizure disorder, avoiding the stigma that may be associated with that term. It is important to know that the diagnosis is "epilepsy," however, since a great deal more information will be found in the encyclopedia under "epilepsy" than under "seizure disorder." It may be a difficult habit to break but these simple tips will demonstrate a caring attitude.
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/labeling.htm
The Toyman
Dave ???? - 20 Sep 2003 19:57 GMT Howdy!
Sounds like step #3 to me!
Steps in the acceptance of my epilepsy
1 A diagnosis -- at last I know what's wrong with me!
2 Epilepsy! -- What's epilepsy?
3 Refusal (No I DON'T have epilepsy!)
4 Why me? / Why is God punishing me?
5 I'm some sort of freak! / My life is ruined! / I can't do any of the things that I want to do!
6 OK I have epilepsy... Guess I'm going to have to learn to live with it! -- Now I'll find out who my REAL friends are!
7 I am not an epileptic, I'm a person who happens to have epilepsy! -- Lots of great people have had epilepsy!
8 Life goes on.
9 Epilepsy/epileptic what's the big deal? People with diabetes are diabetic; people with asthma are asthmatic. It's just a word...
10 Epilepsy is just one facet of what makes me ME! -- This is ME, take it or leave it!
> BlankBy popular medical definition, a person who has more than two seizures, > brought about by an abnormal electrical discharge of brain cells, has [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > The Toyman Dave ???? - 20 Sep 2003 20:17 GMT Sorry... Maybe it's #7
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
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> Howdy! > [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > > > > The Toyman Mary Fisher - 20 Sep 2003 23:16 GMT > 7 I am not an epileptic, I'm a person who happens to have epilepsy! -- > Lots of great people have had epilepsy! Yes.
> 8 Life goes on. Yes.
> 9 Epilepsy/epileptic what's the big deal? People with diabetes are > diabetic; people with asthma are asthmatic. It's just a word... Yes.
> 10 Epilepsy is just one facet of what makes me ME! -- This is ME, take it > or leave it! Yes.
Mary
> > BlankBy popular medical definition, a person who has more than two > seizures, [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > > > The Toyman Lisa Dapper Butts - 23 Sep 2003 12:46 GMT Dave sweetie, stop it. I am not an epileptic, I have epilepsy. The reasoning being: the welcome epileptic's receive. I've had epilepsy for over 20 years...ok....over 30 years. My mother was diagnosed with cancer, that did not make her a canceretic.
This is another one of those issues that will never be solved. There is no right nor wrong. It's a personal issue & everyone should respect one another. Address someone saying they have epilepsy then it's their call if they want to say they are epileptic. It's called common courtesy.
 Signature Lisa Dapper Butts http://www.geocities.com/lisa_gail aol-LizzieAnon yahoo-lisa_gail icq - 8684104 I suffer from C.R.S........can't remember sh.t!
> Howdy! > [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > > > > The Toyman Dave ???? - 23 Sep 2003 18:04 GMT Howdy Lisa!
Aha! Another voice from the peanut gallery...
My appologies, I SHOULD HAVE SAID that this was my progression.
I am attempting to find out how people get to fully accept their epilepsy. I was foolish in assuming that everybody went through the same sequence of attitudes that I did!
(As granny used to say: "When you ASSUME you make an a.s of U and ME.")
Sounds like you got from #7 to #10 without any of the intermediary steps, or is it just everything except for #9?
How about #1 - #6? Does that sequence sound about right in your experience?
re: "stop it!" That's why we have threads... If somebody doesn't want to hear it anymore they can ignore the thread!
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
http://www.howdydave.com
> Dave sweetie, stop it. I am not an epileptic, I have epilepsy. The > reasoning being: the welcome epileptic's receive. I've had epilepsy for [quoted text clipped - 111 lines] > > > > > > The Toyman Mary Fisher - 23 Sep 2003 21:16 GMT > (As granny used to say: "When you ASSUME you make an a.s of U and ME.") Oh I Do like that! I hope I can remember it ...
> re: "stop it!" > That's why we have threads... If somebody doesn't want to hear it anymore > they can ignore the thread! Quite.
Don't stop.
Even if you say something about which I think differently.
Mary
Dave ???? - 24 Sep 2003 04:26 GMT Howdy Mary!
I'm not sure whether that's English stoutness or Yank stoutness:
"I don't agree with a word that you're saying but I'll defend to the death your right to say it!!!"
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
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> > (As granny used to say: "When you ASSUME you make an a.s of U and ME.") > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Mary Mary Fisher - 24 Sep 2003 20:38 GMT > Howdy Mary! > > I'm not sure whether that's English stoutness or Yank stoutness: Not English, thos namby pamby wooly knickered liberal wets!
No, it was Yorkshire stoutness.
It's well known that we call a spade a bl**dy shovel. Without the *s.
> "I don't agree with a word that you're saying but I'll defend to the death > your right to say it!!!" Near enough. Wasn't that Voltaire? Fr*nch?
I could be wrong. There has to be a first time for everything.
;-)
Mary
Dave ???? - 24 Sep 2003 22:53 GMT Howdy Mary!
Can I believe my ears?!
A Limey crediting a Frog with noble philosophies? (pardon my French)
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
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> > Howdy Mary! > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Mary Mary Fisher - 24 Sep 2003 23:12 GMT > Can I believe my ears?! > > A Limey crediting a Frog with noble philosophies? > (pardon my French) I'm not a Limey, I'm a Tyke.
Some of the Fr*nch gleaned their best ideas from the English though.
Mary
> > > Howdy Mary! > > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > > > Mary Dave ???? - 25 Sep 2003 00:32 GMT Howdy Mary!
What's a "Tyke"?
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
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> > Can I believe my ears?! > > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > > > > Mary Mary Fisher - 25 Sep 2003 19:52 GMT > Howdy Mary! > > What's a "Tyke"? A native of Yorkshire. God's Own County. The biggest in Englsn.
The equivalent of Texas i suppose, but better of course.
Mary
> > > Can I believe my ears?! > > > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > > > > > > Mary Dave ???? - 30 Sep 2003 21:00 GMT Howdy Mary!
Just talked to somebody else from UK.
It may be a matter of pride, but he told me that the general understanding of "Tyke" in other parts of the UK is a bit derogatory. :(
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
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> > Howdy Mary! > > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > > > > > > > > > Mary Mary Fisher - 30 Sep 2003 21:07 GMT > Howdy Mary! > > Just talked to somebody else from UK. > > It may be a matter of pride, but he told me that the general understanding > of "Tyke" in other parts of the UK is a bit derogatory. :( He's obviously from another part of the UK and that doesn't count for anything in Yorkshire.
XMaryX
Bob - 23 Sep 2003 21:43 GMT > Dave sweetie, stop it. I am not an epileptic, I have epilepsy. But it means the same thing. The words are part of the English language. Dictionaries are where we find the definitions of words and you only need to look them up in any dictionary to see that they mean the same thing. I even quoted Webster's dictionary in another post to, hopefully, make it clear.
Bob
> The > reasoning being: the welcome epileptic's receive. I've had epilepsy for [quoted text clipped - 119 lines] > > > > > > The Toyman jedi and son - 23 Sep 2003 22:05 GMT > > Dave sweetie, stop it. I am not an epileptic, I have epilepsy. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Bob You are correct Bob, however, what no dictionary can convey or define is the connotative and subjective impact a word or expression may have on an audience. Ultimately, I don't think you debate the definition but what the words means at the individual and human level.
A very good example to further drill this into the ground. My ex-wife was raped repeatedly by a Stepfather while she was a child. To her, the word "molest" will only ever have one meaning. I grew up knowing all of the meanings and it did not have the impact on me that it did her. Very early, when we were dating, she reacted very strongly to my complaining of being molested (meaning harrassed or irritated) by one of my brothers. In no way was I describing a violating sexual act...but that was the manner in which she responded.
As I stated before, my son is being brought up that he has epilepsy not that he is epileptic....in much the same way that I have allergies but I am not Allergic. He may consider himself as being "Epileptic" at some later date but, for now, it's described as something he has but it is not a defining aspect of who he is. We, consequently, focus on encouraging him to explore his world. The initial shock to his world was pretty dramatic but he no longer lives or runs in fear of this thing.
Jedi and Son
Bob - 24 Sep 2003 01:17 GMT > > > Dave sweetie, stop it. I am not an epileptic, I have epilepsy. > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > audience. Ultimately, I don't think you debate the definition but what the > words means at the individual and human level. Many words can be "triggers" for various people and for whatever reasons, but that doesn't change their basic meaning.
> A very good example to further drill this into the ground. But not quite a parallel in regard to "epileptic" and it doesn't make that point.
> My ex-wife was > raped repeatedly by a Stepfather while she was a child. To her, the word [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > was I describing a violating sexual act...but that was the manner in which > she responded. Her situation was & is, unfortunately, all too common, but there needs to be the qualifiers of "sexual molestation", "child molestation", etc. Her reaction to the term is very understandable, but doesn't change the meaning of the word.
> As I stated before, my son is being brought up that he has epilepsy not that > he is epileptic....in much the same way that I have allergies but I am not > Allergic. You read more into the term "epileptic" than I do then. It doesn't "define" the person! It has only its basic definition.
> He may consider himself as being "Epileptic" at some later date > but, for now, it's described as something he has but it is not a defining > aspect of who he is. But use of the word "epileptic" does not "define" a person. It only means that they have epilepsy.
> We, consequently, focus on encouraging him to explore > his world. The initial shock to his world was pretty dramatic but he no > longer lives or runs in fear of this thing. > > Jedi and Son I wish all of you the very best!
Bob (an epileptic)
Dave ???? - 24 Sep 2003 07:12 GMT Howdy Bob!
Looks like I've found a fellow epileptic linguistics-semantics "student" (one of the 'polite words' used to define our type), eh?
********** Jedi wrote:
> > As I stated before, my son is being brought up that he has epilepsy not that > > he is epileptic.... **********
What we are talking about here is how we choose to SOFTEN THE BLOW of one of the hard facts of life. ("being brought up that...")
This is equivalant to being a spin doctor. The presentation doesn't change the fact, it just makes it "easier to live with!" Once the kid gets out into the real world where people have the tendency to call a spade a spade, he may have a lot of problems attempting to adjust to the attitudes and terminology of the rest of the world.
We must differentiate between semantics and the facts!
Encouraging your son to explore his world is a fine thing. I would also introduce him to the possibility that the rest of the world may not see the world the same way that he does.
(I am not a parent so my opinion and $1 will get you a cup of coffee at the coffee shop.)
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
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<snip>
> Many words can be "triggers" for various people and for whatever reasons, but > that doesn't change their basic meaning. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Bob > (an epileptic) Dave ???? - 24 Sep 2003 07:23 GMT Howdy Jedi!
I can not fathom your point of view.
My parents had about the same attitude that you do. Your son is probably about where I was 35 years ago!
I just want to make sure that he doesn't have a rude awakening that will be as traumatic as mine was.
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
http://www.howdydave.com
> ********** > Jedi wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > (I am not a parent so my opinion and $1 will get you a cup of coffee at the > coffee shop.) Pablo - 24 Sep 2003 08:27 GMT g'day dave, let's face it, we're all different so what works for some won't work for others. hmmm seems i've heard something similar to that before somewhere, maybe it'll come to me later ;-) pablo
> Howdy Jedi! > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > the > > coffee shop.) Mary Fisher - 24 Sep 2003 20:40 GMT > This is equivalant to being a spin doctor. The presentation doesn't change > the fact, it just makes it "easier to live with!" You think that spin makes things easier to live with.
Oh no, Dave. Oh no.
Mary
mark stamey - 24 Sep 2003 17:47 GMT Greetings, Group.
There are three basic levels of definition: Denotative, Connotative, and Operational.
Denotative: You will find this one in the dictionary.
Connotative: What baggage the word carries. This would be what the word implies.
Operational: The definition people use in the context of the current conversation or exchange.
The Denotative definition of a person with epilepsy is different than the Connotation of the word when it is inferred to be pejorative - like some of us do when referred to as "epileptics".
My Operational definition, "Epileprosy" is my form of "Mebonics", or a "neologism" (new word) I use in context to convey a special impact, yet different from the other components of meaning. I use it, but non - seizure disorder types can't without being insulting.
I admit I get confrontational when I get "accused of being "inferior" because of having a seizure disorder. I hope you do, too. We are not inferior. I have been through enough with it and I will not tolerate having abuse added to the mix, thank you. If someone insults you, equilibrate and have fun at it.
No offense meant to anyone. Really.
Gotta go . I just got some heavy news.
Be strong
Marcuss Epilepticuss
> > > > Dave sweetie, stop it. I am not an epileptic, I have epilepsy. > > > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Bob > (an epileptic) Mary Fisher - 24 Sep 2003 20:42 GMT > I admit I get confrontational when I get "accused of being "inferior" > because of having a seizure disorder. I should think so too.
> I hope you do, too. No-one would dare!
> We are not > inferior. I have been through enough with it and I will not tolerate having > abuse added to the mix, thank you. If someone insults you, equilibrate and > have fun at it. Absolutely.
> No offense meant to anyone. Really. None taken here, only support.
Mary
Dave ???? - 24 Sep 2003 04:34 GMT Howdy Jedi!
"Connotative & subjective."
If I may give my 'connotative' impression of that phrase, it connotes: bigotry, prejudice, ignorance, arrogance -- any or all of the above, your choice (a subjective choice.)
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
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> You are correct Bob, however, what no dictionary can convey or define is the > connotative and subjective impact a word or expression may have on an > audience. > > Jedi and Son Mary Fisher - 24 Sep 2003 20:42 GMT > "Connotative & subjective." > > If I may give my 'connotative' impression of that phrase, it connotes: > bigotry, prejudice, ignorance, arrogance -- > any or all of the above, your choice (a subjective choice.) Sounds good to me.
Mary
> > You are correct Bob, however, what no dictionary can convey or define is > the > > connotative and subjective impact a word or expression may have on an > > audience. > > > > Jedi and Son jedi and son - 25 Sep 2003 00:32 GMT > Howdy Jedi! > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > bigotry, prejudice, ignorance, arrogance -- > any or all of the above, your choice (a subjective choice.) I am guessing that you were quoting me... If my position conveys "bigotry, prejudice, ignorance, arrogance" then so be it. It was not, however, what I was trying to say nor was it said with that intent. I suspect that, without the benefit of being able to speak face to face...this is much like most "usenet discussions". Not much movement beyond a positional statement.
So be it.
Jedi and Son
Lisa Dapper Butts - 24 Sep 2003 11:55 GMT Yea in the dictionary it means the same thing but to society the sound is different. Huge, pompous jerk = a.s.......same meaning, different words.....
 Signature Lisa Dapper Butts http://www.geocities.com/lisa_gail aol-LizzieAnon yahoo-lisa_gail icq - 8684104 I suffer from C.R.S........can't remember sh.t!
> > Dave sweetie, stop it. I am not an epileptic, I have epilepsy. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Bob Bob - 24 Sep 2003 15:35 GMT > Yea in the dictionary it means the same thing but to society the sound is > different. It's only been in recent years that I've learned that this condition that I've probably had all my life is called "epilepsy", but I've known various people with epilepsy all my life. Those people included ones like the boss's son and a woman I used to date and almost married. I can't recall the term "epileptic" ever being used in a derogatory manner and the discussions that people (society) had privately about them were always sympathetic ones in regard to their seizures (grand mals) & condition. If society is aware of a condition, what difference does it make as to which correct terminology is used?.
> Huge, pompous jerk = a.s.......same meaning, different words..... Did you look that up in your Funk & Wagnalls?<g> :-)
Bob (CRS either)
> Lisa Dapper Butts > http://www.geocities.com/lisa_gail [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > > > Bob Mary Fisher - 24 Sep 2003 20:43 GMT > > Huge, pompous jerk = a.s.......same meaning, different words..... > > Did you look that up in your Funk & Wagnalls?<g> :-) I suspect that she thought of it all by herself.
Mary
> Bob K.B. - 24 Sep 2003 03:27 GMT This is all so true. I love it. You put this in words so well. Kris
> Howdy! > [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > > > > The Toyman Mary Fisher - 20 Sep 2003 23:15 GMT When you refer to someone as an
> epileptic, you're lowering their self-esteem and sabotaging their efforts to > maintain/regain control of their life. Excuse me! My esteem isn't lowered and I'm in full control of my life.
When epilepsy comes up in conversation, whatever the context, I say I'm an epileptic.
When cancer comes up in conversation, whatever the context, I say that I have cancer.
I'm not a cancer victim or patient or sufferer or anything like that, I HAVE cancer.
No-one's perfect, we must be honest so that other people will take their cues from us. Only we can change others' perceptions.
Mary
Julie - 21 Sep 2003 03:54 GMT Hi Mary, you are making the point of the Toyman. He was saying he will not label his wife as an epileptic. He recognizes that she has a seizure disorder or that she HAS epilepsy. Just like you would say you have cancer. I notice that you are in the U.K. I think some words seem to be more acceptable in the U.K. For example I believe some would have no problem in using the word "fit" for a seizure, whereas here in the U.S. we prefer to use the term seizure and if someone says fit to me I think of a child throwing a tantrum. I'm not sure how the rest of the world looks at these terms. What do you think Pablo, G.R.?
We opening let people know that we have epilepsy. And the person Toyman was quoting was the Executive Director of the Epilepsy Foundation, here in Idaho. Mr. Blackwell doesn't have epilepsy, but as you can see from his quote, he recognizes the importance of placing the focus on the whole person, not on just one characteristic.
Take care, Julie, Volunteer Webmaster Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho http://www.epilepsyidaho.org
> When you refer to someone as an > > epileptic, you're lowering their self-esteem and sabotaging their efforts [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Mary Julie - 21 Sep 2003 03:58 GMT <snip>
> We opening let people know that we have epilepsy. Do you ever wish the ng had a feature where you could edit your comments? Even though I read this before I sent it, I still made mistakes.
Of course I meant to say We openly ....
Sigh..... Guess I shouldn't wait until after 9pm to eat dinner : - [ Julie
Dave ???? - 21 Sep 2003 21:30 GMT Howdy Julie!
The way the human mind works is based on LANGUAGE.
No matter what word you use you are using a LABLE! (In case anybody hasn't been around long enough to figure it out - I'm a linguistics and semantics freak!)
Lables such as: Red, Hot, Wet... Are all based on perceptions, generalizations and labeling.
The issue is not labeling, but personal ignorance and bigotry!
Since Mr. Blackwell isn't epileptic I can't see how he can make a statement about MY perception of MY epilepsy unless he has experienced it himself.
At best, he can determine that the world must be educated, he can't have any connotation of how I feel about myself.
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
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> <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Sigh..... Guess I shouldn't wait until after 9pm to eat dinner : - [ > Julie Pablo - 21 Sep 2003 21:03 GMT > Hi Mary, you are making the point of the Toyman. He was saying he will not > label his wife as an epileptic. He recognizes that she has a seizure disorder [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > someone says fit to me I think of a child throwing a tantrum. I'm not sure how > the rest of the world looks at these terms. What do you think Pablo, G.R.? g'day julie, while fit is often used here in australia it isn't generally accepted too well by too many people i've spoken to who have epilepsy. epileptic is generally accepted here as the word used to denote a person with a seizure disorder. quite often people will ask me if i'm an epileptic and it doesn't really worry me that much the same as if i had diabetes and was called a diabetic. people aren't using the term to denigrate me, it isn't much different than saying i'm an aussie. being called an epileptic can be offensive, but only if you let it be. pablo
> We opening let people know that we have epilepsy. And the person Toyman was > quoting was the Executive Director of the Epilepsy Foundation, here in Idaho. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > > > Mary Mary Fisher - 21 Sep 2003 22:22 GMT > g'day julie, > while fit is often used here in australia it isn't generally accepted too [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > different than saying i'm an aussie. being called an epileptic can be > offensive, but only if you let it be. Quite.
I don't.
Mary
Dave ???? - 21 Sep 2003 21:39 GMT Howdy Julie!
I HAVE epilepsy or I AM an epileptic
They both say EXACTLY the same thing except for the fact that one is a noun and one is an adjective!
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
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> Hi Mary, you are making the point of the Toyman. He was saying he will not > label his wife as an epileptic. He recognizes that she has a seizure disorder [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > > > Mary Dave ???? - 21 Sep 2003 21:54 GMT Howdy AGAIN!
A word of clarification:
To those who perceive "epileptic" as being a degrading word, it's not going to make a smeg of difference;
Whether I say:
I am an epileptic troublemaker (appropriate for me on this group)
or
I am a troublemaker who happens to have epilepsy
the derogatory implications will be read into both sentences.
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
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> Howdy Julie! > [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > > > > > Mary Mary Fisher - 21 Sep 2003 22:23 GMT > Whether I say: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > the derogatory implications will be read into both sentences. Wellllll .........
The one might be appropriated to the other ... :-)
Or ascribed, or what you will.
Mary
> > Howdy Julie! > > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > > > > > > > Mary Lisa Dapper Butts - 23 Sep 2003 12:53 GMT Nope, big difference. Huge difference. Read them out loud. Huge difference.
'Epileptic troublemaker' throws the trouble towards your seizures. 'Troublemaker who happens to have epilepsy' explains you exactly! Big difference! :)
 Signature Lisa Dapper Butts http://www.geocities.com/lisa_gail aol-LizzieAnon yahoo-lisa_gail icq - 8684104 I suffer from C.R.S........can't remember sh.t!
> Howdy AGAIN! > [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > > > > > > > > Mary Mary Fisher - 23 Sep 2003 21:17 GMT > Nope, big difference. Huge difference. Read them out loud. Huge > difference. > > 'Epileptic troublemaker' throws the trouble towards your seizures. > 'Troublemaker who happens to have epilepsy' explains you exactly! Big > difference! :) It's in the ear of the behearer.
Mary
Dave ???? - 23 Sep 2003 22:12 GMT Howdy Mary!
In other words...
I am not going to define myself by other people's prejudice.
If epileptic "throws the trouble towards your seizures" I'm never going to educate people by bowing to their ignorance and keeping silent.
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
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> > Nope, big difference. Huge difference. Read them out loud. Huge > > difference. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Mary Mary Fisher - 23 Sep 2003 22:24 GMT > Howdy Mary! > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If epileptic "throws the trouble towards your seizures" I'm never going to > educate people by bowing to their ignorance and keeping silent. That took some working at but if I understand you correctly I agree.
Mary
> > > Nope, big difference. Huge difference. Read them out loud. Huge > > > difference. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > > > Mary Dave ???? - 23 Sep 2003 23:48 GMT Howdy Mary!
Don't forget your Latin:
"Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus" "Don't let the bast*rds grind you down"
I stuck it underneath my name for a reason.
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
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> > Howdy Mary! > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > > > > > Mary Mary Fisher - 24 Sep 2003 20:44 GMT > Howdy Mary! > > Don't forget your Latin: > > "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus" > "Don't let the bast*rds grind you down" I've been using a variation of that for fifty years.
> I stuck it underneath my name for a reason. Which was?
Mary
Dave ???? - 24 Sep 2003 22:58 GMT Howdy Mary!
To let people know that I have an attitude about how some people treat other people. n.b.: I call them all 'people.'
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
http://www.howdydave.com
> > Howdy Mary! > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Mary Mary Fisher - 24 Sep 2003 23:13 GMT > Howdy Mary! > > To let people know that I have an attitude about how some people treat other > people. n.b.: I call them all 'people.' Oh.
I can't quite see how but I'll take your word for it. A very noble principle.
Mary
> > > Howdy Mary! > > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > > > Mary Dave ???? - 25 Sep 2003 00:33 GMT Howdy Mary!
Well... That's the best explination that I could come up with on the spur of the moment!
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
http://www.howdydave.com
> > Howdy Mary! > > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > > > > > Mary Mary Fisher - 25 Sep 2003 19:52 GMT > Howdy Mary! > > Well... > That's the best explination that I could come up with on the spur of the > moment! Sounds good to me.
Mary
> > > Howdy Mary! > > > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > > > > > > > Mary Bob - 22 Sep 2003 00:50 GMT "Dave ©¿©¬" wrote:
> Howdy Julie! > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > They both say EXACTLY the same thing except for the fact that one is a noun > and one is an adjective! Hi Dave
There's even more to it than that. You can say "I AM epileptic" (used as an adjective), or "I AM an epileptic" (used as a noun) and both are correct English and not derogatory in any sense.
If I look the word up in an old Webster's dictionary published in 1953, I see Epileptic - Adjective - Pertaining to, having, or of the nature of epilepsy. Noun- One having epilepsy.
That means that "an epileptic"="someone who has epilepsy".
I personally think that the article at http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/labeling.htm is very misguided & inflammatory and should be removed. It has already caused another victim (Toyboy who started this thread) and is based on a misunderstanding of the English language. There is no "labeling" involved, just a proper use of words with no derogatory implications..
Bob
> Dave ©¿©¬ > "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus" [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > > > > > Mary Dave ???? - 22 Sep 2003 02:21 GMT Howdy Bob & JULIE!
IMHO: Mr. Blackwell took the words of somebody who has not fully come to terms with his/her epilepsy much to much to heart. In so doing he did epileptics a great DIS-service!
By conceding this persons self perception of their epilepsy he is preventing people from getting past #7 (see below.)
If a person can't get past this point I don't think that they will EVER get to the point of fully accepting the fact that epilepsy is an integral part of their life.
I.E.: If he yields on point #7 people will never get to 8, 9 & 10 (ESPECIALLY 10!):
7 I am not an epileptic, I'm a person who happens to have epilepsy! -- Lots of great people have had epilepsy!
8 Life goes on.
9 Epilepsy/epileptic what's the big deal? People with diabetes are diabetic; people with asthma are asthmatic. It's just a word...
10 Epilepsy is just one facet of what makes me ME! -- This is ME, take it or leave it!
BTW Bob: How's your Latin?
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
http://www.howdydave.com
> I personally think that the article at > http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/labeling.htm is very misguided & inflammatory and [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > > > > > > > Mary Bob - 22 Sep 2003 03:15 GMT "Dave ©¿©¬" wrote:
> Howdy Bob & JULIE! > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > BTW Bob: How's your Latin? Hi Dave :-)
Hmmmm. Will this do?
Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam, qui ipsorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli appellantur. . . .
or were you looking for
ad deum qui letificat iuventutem meam . . . ?
Bob :-)
> Dave ©¿©¬ > "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus" [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > > > > > > > > > > Mary Dave ???? - 22 Sep 2003 04:31 GMT Howdy Bob!
Actually I was hoping that you would tell everybody that
"Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
translates:
"Don't let the bast*rds grind you down!"
(That "*" is just in case anybody has profanity filters)
Gee... here I thought that you were going to say "All Gaul is divided into three parts" or something snappy like that! :)
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
http://www.howdydave.com
> > Howdy Bob & JULIE! > > [quoted text clipped - 126 lines] > > > > > > > > > > > > Mary Pablo - 22 Sep 2003 21:22 GMT you could always try "mens sana en corpore sano" pablo
> Howdy Bob & JULIE! > [quoted text clipped - 108 lines] > > > > > > > > > > Mary Dave ???? - 23 Sep 2003 03:57 GMT Howdy pablo!
Ya' got me there!
Something about being ground under someone's heal?
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
http://www.howdydave.com
> you could always try "mens sana en corpore sano" > pablo Pablo - 23 Sep 2003 07:37 GMT g'day dave, actually it's "a sound mind in a sound body" something i like to believe all of us here have. pablo
> Howdy pablo! > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > you could always try "mens sana en corpore sano" > > pablo Lisa Dapper Butts - 23 Sep 2003 12:59 GMT Bite me Dave! Wait, no, never mind...you'd like that too much! :) I've come to terms with my epilepsy. I'm an entertainer that can't remember words to songs because I take drugs for my epilepsy. But that cool, that's me. I also think the whole world should take dilantin. We wouldn't have road rage, everyone would be a lot more layed back!
 Signature Lisa Dapper Butts http://www.geocities.com/lisa_gail aol-LizzieAnon yahoo-lisa_gail icq - 8684104 I suffer from C.R.S........can't remember sh.t!
> Howdy Bob & JULIE! > > IMHO: Mr. Blackwell took the words of somebody who has not fully come to > terms with his/her epilepsy much to much to heart. In so doing he did > epileptics a great DIS-service! Dave ???? - 23 Sep 2003 17:44 GMT Howdy Lisa!
Does dilantin do THAT?!?
Personally, I was never aware of any side effects of dilantin except when a resident pushed it into my arm too fast (which made it swell up like a baloon.)
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
http://www.howdydave.com
> Bite me Dave! Wait, no, never mind...you'd like that too much! :) <snip>
I also think the whole world should take dilantin. We wouldn't have
> road rage, everyone would be a lot more layed back! Lainie - 24 Sep 2003 00:34 GMT > Bite me Dave! Wait, no, never mind...you'd like that too much! :) I've > come to terms with my epilepsy. I'm an entertainer that can't remember > words to songs because I take drugs for my epilepsy. But that cool, that's > me. I also think the whole world should take dilantin. We wouldn't have > road rage, everyone would be a lot more layed back! When does this side effect of Dilantin kick in? (currently 400mg/day... should I try more for the laid back feeling?) I've taken it over 10 years and don't feel laid back. Just tired, yet irritated. If I felt laid back I wouldn't feel irritated.
Lainie
Dave ???? - 24 Sep 2003 02:39 GMT Howdy!
Dilantin never did much for me, what got my flying was the pheno/mysoline combination!
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
http://www.howdydave.com
> > Bite me Dave! Wait, no, never mind...you'd like that too much! :) I've > > come to terms with my epilepsy. I'm an entertainer that can't remember [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Lainie Liz & Allan MacDonald - 24 Sep 2003 14:35 GMT Lisa Dapper Butts wrote:
I'm an entertainer that can't remember words to songs because I take drugs for my epilepsy.
and Dave ©¿©¬ talked about his VNS and barbershop.
What do you two do to remember lyrics? I've been attending Harmony, Inc. rehearsals, but have decided not to join because I don't believe I can memorize the repertoire. I sing with two other groups, but they use scores, and often I get the feeling I'm reading something familiar but not memorized, even after weeks of rehearsal.
I'm still on Dilantin four seizure-free years after temporal lobe surgery, but only 200mg.
Liz
Dave ???? - 24 Sep 2003 19:49 GMT Howdy Liz!
I don't know how to answer that one except to say "by rote!"
My memory sucks but I was able to learn my lines for musicals and plays. (I was Teddy in Arsnic & Old Lace -- very appropriate, eh?)
'Course that was in High School. I don't know how much brain-rot has set in since then, but I was on barbiturates at the time.
Sing it often enough and it sinks in (for me anyway) it just takes longer.
Harmony, Inc... Is that anything like the Clementines here in the USA (a national association of Women barbershoppers.)
I like the acronym that they use in the UK: BABS (I think it stands for British Association of Barbershop Singers.)
All of the above monikers are easier to use than SPEBSQSA (Society for the Preservation and Encouragement of BarberShop Quartet Singing in America.)
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
http://www.howdydave.com
> Lisa Dapper Butts wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Liz Liz & Allan MacDonald - 27 Sep 2003 14:14 GMT Dave ©¿©¬ wrote:
> Sing it often enough and it sinks in (for me anyway) it just takes longer. I've screwed up too many times after I think it's finally sunk in. Not too audibly, though. At least I've never been able to hear it in the recording. Happens in choir performances when I'm not looking at my music often enough.
> Harmony, Inc... Is that anything like the Clementines here in the USA (a > national association of Women barbershoppers.) Yeppers. I googled and found their site. International women barbershoppers. Not too many handlebar moustaches.
> All of the above monikers are easier to use than SPEBSQSA (Society for the > Preservation and Encouragement of BarberShop Quartet Singing in America.) I've also seen it called SPEBSQUA. Same title but selectively acronymized to something pronounced "Speb-skwa".
I'm going to try rehearsing with them a few more weeks if they'll let me (they'd better - I'm a tenor with a perfect straight tone) and see how it works.
Liz
Mary Fisher - 24 Sep 2003 20:47 GMT > What do you two do to remember lyrics? I'm a public speaker who can't remember some words. My reputation spreads, I'm apparently entertaining and educational.
My secret?
I take along my husband, he knows the lines by heart and while he couldn't deliver them himself he reminds me when I give him a little look.
Mary
Dave ???? - 24 Sep 2003 22:59 GMT Howdy Mary!
You mean he holds up idiot cards for you? :)
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
http://www.howdydave.com
> > What do you two do to remember lyrics? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Mary Mary Fisher - 24 Sep 2003 23:17 GMT > Howdy Mary! > > You mean he holds up idiot cards for you? :) No, I just glance at him and he says the word, sotto voce.
But I've already warned the audience about my dysphasia and why I have it (the tumour, surgery and epilepsy) so after a few minutes they're not uncomfortable and I regard it as part of their enlightenment. That's not the exact word I want but it will do.
It's surprising how many people open up about their own similar conditions when I've done that and they see that I'm almost normal (despite rumours to the contrary before anyone hereabouts says it).
Mary
> > > What do you two do to remember lyrics? > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > > Mary Dave ???? - 25 Sep 2003 00:36 GMT Howdy Mary!
That's what I like about epilepsy.
If you ever make an a.s of yourself, say something that you later regret or do something else that's just plain bizarre you can blame it on your epilepsy.
Other people don't have a nice, pat excuse!
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
http://www.howdydave.com
> > Howdy Mary! > > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > > > > > Mary Mary Fisher - 25 Sep 2003 19:53 GMT > Howdy Mary! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Other people don't have a nice, pat excuse! Oh - I never thought about that. Nice one :-) I've never done it deliberatly, I'm just honest. But you've given me something to think about ...
Mary
> > > Howdy Mary! > > > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > > > > > > Mary Dave ???? - 25 Sep 2003 00:39 GMT Howdy Mary!
Geez... we're getting so cozy here I think that we ought to go out and talk at a coffee shop (shoppe) or something like that!
Your neighborhood or mine?
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
http://www.howdydave.com
> > Howdy Mary! > > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > > > > > Mary Mary Fisher - 25 Sep 2003 19:54 GMT > Howdy Mary! > > Geez... we're getting so cozy here I think that we ought to go out and talk > at a coffee shop (shoppe) or something like that! > > Your neighborhood or mine? Mine.
You'd like it here.
Mary
> > > Howdy Mary! > > > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > > > > > > Mary Dave ???? - 25 Sep 2003 21:17 GMT > > Howdy Mary! > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Mary Howdy Mary!
I've got my passport, will you buy my ticket?
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
http://www.howdydave.com
Mary Fisher - 26 Sep 2003 18:15 GMT --
> > > Howdy Mary! > > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > I've got my passport, will you buy my ticket? You're asking that of a Tyke?
<feels faint>
Mary
Dave ???? - 26 Sep 2003 22:15 GMT Howdy Mary!
All these years I thought that "Tyke" was a Norwegian word!
My grandfather, when talking about children less than 2 years old always used to say:
"Isn't s/he a cute little tyke!" Never knew that he was calling them Yorkies!
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
http://www.howdydave.com
> -- > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Mary Dave ???? - 26 Sep 2003 22:17 GMT Anybody know what the record is for the longest thread.
(If you're out there Dave F. how about giving us a clue?)
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
http://www.howdydave.com
> Howdy Mary! > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > > > Mary Mary Fisher - 26 Sep 2003 22:53 GMT > Anybody know what the record is for the longest thread. > > (If you're out there Dave F. how about giving us a clue?) No idea on this group but soc.hist.med had some humdingers.
So has uk.business.agriculture.
Mary
> > Howdy Mary! > > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > > > > > Mary Mary Fisher - 26 Sep 2003 22:51 GMT > Howdy Mary! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > "Isn't s/he a cute little tyke!" Never knew that he was calling them > Yorkies! That's another meaning - a naughty little child.
With a lower case 't' as opposed to the capital we deserve.
Mary
> > -- > > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > > > Mary Dave ???? - 26 Sep 2003 23:59 GMT Howdy!
Well... of course the kids are a lower case "t"!
The UK has abolished Capital Punishment, hasn't it?
 Signature Dave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"
http://www.howdydave.com
> > Howdy Mary! > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Mary Mary Fisher - 27 Sep 2003 00:04 GMT > Howdy! > > Well... of course the kids are a lower case "t"! > > The UK has abolished Capital Punishment, hasn't it? Yes :-(
And we don't eat our young any more :-((
Waste of protein.
Mary
> > > Howdy Mary! > > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > > Mary
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