Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / October 2005
epilepsy so called .. 'cure'?
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twiggyfr3ak - 15 Oct 2005 22:01 GMT Hi everyone.. i was looking up epilepsy in google and came across this site.. and thought i'd look and i found it to be absolutably (sp?) ridiculous! Has anyone else seen this site? I hope i don't offend anyone cause i am a believer in extrasensory pereption.. but this was just unbelievable what he claims and then in the 'conditions' part.. i read .. http://www.epilepsyhealing.org/?go=conditions
"Consult your health care practitioner for all advice and treatment. This method is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Only your doctor is authorized to make changes in your medication or any treatment. We do not make any statements regarding any medications neither comment any other health providers decision."
This was too humourus not to share.. i hope noone has fell for this obcsene claim. Thanks. Melx
G.Ross - 16 Oct 2005 02:02 GMT I didn't go to ARIN Whois, to look up what other groups they posted onto (within post about Google search results at bottom here). You first need to open the Source location (of the original poster on google), to get the 4x3 digit dns number to search http://arin.whois ? and it lists all the groups they've posted on. If it was a robot posting that could be an extensive list. Since *you found *them using Google, and they've never been *here, they might have just set a site with keywords that a Google search might pull down for you. Usually Google sorts search items you seek, by most likely to least, based on keywords *you entered to search for. You didn't say how far *down list of hits you found the address-- I'd guess about number 60? I wouldn't be surprised to find a similar post on Arthritis, Polio, Cancer etc. sites (an ARIN search above would show that, possibly). Anyone dumb enough to send US $649 the first year then $468. the second year, and onward through years 3 and 4 to Czechoslavakia (sp? their source address is dot cz ), deserves whatever they get.
As you know if you've been reading here for a while, there are about 5-6 types of seizures, depending on the area of the brain affected, and the cause. That site only lists that they'll cure 'epilepsy', but then goes on to tell you not to stop using any medications you use, and to continue to consult your doctor for treatment, and if you're not cured after 3? years they'll send the money back. Yeah, and pigs can fly out of the Czech republic. I have some land south of Cuba with easy water access for rent too... :-< (If an ARIN search found that they were in fact inside North America or most countries in West Europe and just bouncing the site off Czech. Republic, there are probably consumer protection laws that even their 5-6 disclaimers at end don't protect them with. )
It IS strange though that a Remote scammer would go to the trouble to list all the disclaimers (below ***s) after promising a cure, then telling you not to stop taking medications or seek Dr advice before taking any further action, after they have the cash... That's a Pile of money inside the Czech republic-- they only need to score about 10 'hits' and that might be several year's income. I think strawberries or chocolate would be cheaper and easier to buy. G./
> Hi everyone.. i was looking up epilepsy in google and came across this > site.. and thought i'd look and i found it to be absolutably (sp?) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > method is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. > Only ********************************
> your doctor is authorized to make changes in your medication or any > treatment. We do not make any statements regarding any medications neither [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks. > Melx mrr5745 - 16 Oct 2005 22:44 GMT I went to this website and read his claims. His claims were so far fetched and medically inaccurate that I reported him to the better business bureau. The only problem is I could not find a business address for him...so I can only hope something gets done about it.
MR
G.Ross - 17 Oct 2005 00:31 GMT >I went to this website and read his claims. His claims were so far fetched > and medically inaccurate that I reported him to the better business > bureau. The only problem is I could not find a business address for > him...so I can only hope something gets done about it. > MR I went back to see if I could find the dns number from the link and look up more about where it came from (and possibly an internet provider). I wasn't able to, but was able to 'find' that "most epilepsies are caused by problems in Either the *pancreas or the *heart, and it's within there that they have their cures targeted. ... for the 8 major types of epilepsies" --> some of which are morning epilepsy, or early epilepsy that happens between 3 and 9AM, day or night epilepsy or early morning epilepsy (appeared different? from morning epilepsy), and simple epilepsy or zoned out, black outs. The only actual symptoms that are Near any of Real seizure types was the 'zoned out black outs' which appear to be what are called 'Absence seizures' in the real world, although nowhere on the site is that term used. The grammar suggests that English is not their first language and I'd be surprised if they were in a country which had a Better Business Bureau or equivalent, but let us know if you hear anything.
The sad thing is that people who might *really need treatment might send money to this site and get nothing in return or make their personal condition worse (in spite of warnings not to discontinue meds. etc. as the treatment from 'reveen' progresses...). They're still a liar and a crook, and should get a real job instead of preying on people with medical conditions who could be harmed by this sort of corruption. Also if they only take Charge Card numbers, you're sending your Credit Limit source data *offshore to a stranger who could buy some pretty neat Stereo Equipment and Digital Cameras with your charge card, **before they hit the credit limit you've established for yourself.... That's a good reason to not buy stuff online, unless you initiate the contact.
(I'd still like to be able to open the site, to find the dns number, since ARIN (mentioned before) would show if they're doing this on Other Health sites too. Perhaps I'll find a way to open it later. Depending where you reported it to, I was able to Open the CODE (programming) he used, and I've never been able to do That before !! But within that screen code, there was no dns number I wanted -- which looks like [123.345.456.567] in square brackets. Perhaps where you reported the source to might have people who can open that and find the source of the website.)
If it's still up later in the week, there *might be a way you could report them to another site who track this sort of thing. It's called Quackwatch, and specializes in documenting Quack sites on the internet. Often someone being drawn in wouldn't check there, but it would get them International Attention /publicity in a wide market of Real Web Providers, possibly even their own. G./
mrr5745 - 17 Oct 2005 07:04 GMT This quack was offering a free trial, so I signed up just to see what happened. This is the e-mail I got:
Dear Mary,
Thank you for your enrollment into my healing system. Based on description of your problem and my own experience I think I should be able to help you. Please be patient with my healing and get back to me on regular basis. I need your update once a month that I know what to focus on. Only those who are patient with me will be healed.
Upon/Based on your application and in keeping with the conditions I would like to inform you, that you have been enrolled into my healing program and so I have started the continuous healing influence of your organism on October 16, 2005.
The Trial and Payment options:
Every client is different and each of you will need a different time frame to see first positive changes with your health. I have been offering lower fee options for my healing even that the fee is already low. Sooner you will see the changes and will decide for the payment, lower the fee is going to be. Please do not panic or cancel if you are not able to see any positive changes within few first months with your conditions. Leave the cancellation of the healing up to me.
The minimal meaningful period I should work with the patient is 12 months. In fact, I recommend each patient would undergo full 2 years of the treatment in order to achieve the best possible results. Please let me know about your conditions around DEC -16-2005 and ask for readings of your organism. THIS contact is mandatory. You will need to update me on your health conditions once a month , that I know what to focus on. Please send me the update once a month even that no changes will be visible yet.
Two more things to pay attention to:
During my influence on you, do not make any changes or discontinue any medication or any treatment prescribed by your doctors. Changes in medication can be done only by your doctor and after I will reach a certain point then they will have enough proof that your health is getting better and will start to lower the medication automatically.
With love and peace
Ivan Gellner
www.healer-cz.com
www.epilepsyhealing.org
I espcially liked the part about "leave the cancellation of healing up to me" In other words "Keep sending me money until I say to stop" And the part about "While I'm under his influence" Like he is some sort of higher power. And "Only those who are patient with me will be healed"...yeah right. The people who are patient with him will be broke.
One would think if he is psychic that he would know how I am doing without monthly MANDATORY updates.
Please note that I did not bother to fix the numerous gramatical errors, but I did delete all of the pricing information. FYI, he wants roughly $600 a year.
Hope you get as good a laugh out of this as I did.
MR
G.Ross - 17 Oct 2005 15:39 GMT If you stop hearing from him, it's because he was also running a "Nigeria Money Laundering Scam" and got removed when his DNS number and headers were sent to the provider he was using. I'm tired of getting this junk from these fake "Nigeria" yobs -- that's why it's called the "Nigeria Money Laundering Scam". The original in 1996? was from there-- most current ones are from colleges in the US or Europe. Some of these are in Prison in the US.
If it had been me, I'd have left below alone, since **you? originally found the site via a Google search? so technically you approached him (in some jurisdictions, that would not be treated as fraud, but an unskilled consumer) .... Further, you don't know whether you're dealing with a college kid with access to computer resources for goofing around, or part of an underbelly of the internet, who are as scrupulous as heroin dealers. Unless you have access to a Lab or people who can analyze any 'cures' they mail you for the money you invest, you have no easy way of telling what any products are they might send. I guess I can't see the point of proceeding with that, unless a local ep. association or a consumers bureau has access to those tests. I wouldn't use any products from a yobcast.
One problem they're having right now with the internet is that if they're beyond your country's borders (Czech republic like I suggested earlier), they don't fall under many of the laws you enjoy where you live, *and the products they might mail you aren't licenced for where you live. So if they find out what's going on and decide to send you <malware and sugar>, you have no way to tell if your local police will even find 'juan valdez' and his address.
A Canada CBC TV Program called Marketplace, did a program about a yr? ago on fake Arthritis Cures that were being packaged and shipped out of a warehouse near one of our cities. The boxes looked very authentic, but the products proved to be potentially dangerous, since in their case they were replacing pills patients were *supposed to take with Cheaper Clone (sugar) non-pills at 60% of the cost (and 0% of medical value). If that was the correct series, there might be something under http://cbc.ca/marketplace and if there's a program search option, you could try search Medication Scams or Fake Medicine Sales, to see if it finds a program reference. Some of the site has text information on past programs, others have real streaming audio with a repeat of the full program. You want the first one, if you try any searches. (The factory mentioned here was closed within a month of the broadcast.) G./.
> This quack was offering a free trial, so I signed up just to see what > happened. This is the e-mail I got: [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > Hope you get as good a laugh out of this as I did. > MR twiggyfr3ak - 17 Oct 2005 22:10 GMT > If you stop hearing from him, it's because he was also running a > "Nigeria Money Laundering Scam" and got removed when his DNS number and [quoted text clipped - 112 lines] >> Hope you get as good a laugh out of this as I did. >> MR ------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi all.. thx for replying.. i found this at the right hand side of the google search. At the part in which i assume is for paid advertising? Surely google reviews the sites that go through them in that sort of way. Or maybe they just want the money. heh. I never thought about reporting this site as i didn't realy think who to go to. But i have just had a thought, my mom gets all the fake 'please send me your money to me so you can get £XXXXX amount of money from my inheritence' kind of rubbish and she sends all this emails and spoof websites that just want to get your money basically and she sent me the link for reporting them. http://nhtcu.org/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=12305&tt=nhtcu I don't know if they are of any use to this situation? As i havn't realy had a chance to look through it all. But it is about internet fraud. Sorry for the ramble there! =] Melx
G.Ross - 18 Oct 2005 00:34 GMT >> One problem they're having right now with the internet is that if they're >> beyond your country's borders (Czech republic like I suggested earlier), [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >>> so I have started the continuous healing influence of your organism on >>> October 16, 2005. **********************
>>> The Trial and Payment options: >>> Every client is different and each of you will need a different time [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > Surely google reviews the sites that go through them in that sort of way. > Or maybe they just want the money. heh. *** You could write to them and ask them (postmaster@google.com ?). It's possible that those adverts. are posted via robot, and with a charge card no. he might have posted the advert. without a human seeing it. But they should be alert that under North America laws, they'd potentially get legal problems if someone were to die from a treatment they delivered, and the families took them to Court. (Google is registered in the U.S. , even though Reveen isn't... )
Still, you'd be sending your money into the Czech Republic. What kind of consumer protection laws to they have there? And I would have gone for the 'pet healing' as it's only about 30 bucks? versus several hundred dollars times 3 years? They don't even say which country's currency that is, but I assume the Czechs would want US dollars or 'the czech might bounce'...
:-< I personally wouldn't have contacted them or given them my email or whatever you had to do to enroll in his healing powers. But that's just me. It's clearly something that wouldn't work for any kind of seizures, and a fake site to get some quick cash into the Czech republic. Besides, how would you unsubscribe without attracting the ire of a czech savant? I would have thought he'd know that too, but he didn't appear to... /
> I never thought about reporting this site as i didn't realy think who to > go to. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > there! =] > Melx I doubt that anyone but Google might look at the site locally, and don't know what the complaints addr. is for google, although it's likely listed on the front page somewhere, or one I put at top here. The site you listed *sure looks like a Prime Nominee for that www.quackwatch site I mentioned earlier. I used to read them from time to time on another version of windows, but don't know if that address tells you how to nominate your 'friend' for inclusion. It's sure a candidate from what I saw, and what we discuss here about living with epilepsy.. *Quackwatch go and look at the site to see if it meets their criteria for 'quackery', and when they see him, he's added to their library of sites. They run a directory of sites that pass criteria they list of what makes a website 'quackery'. That's why you could read there (if address in above paragraph links to it), and see what's involved in nominating a site, *or to see if he's already there. I'd be surprised if he's NOT already there, but the site depends on people reading it once or twice a week to keep up with scams and quackery that are added daily. (I think that's partly why I didn't subscribe on this system, as there were about 10-12 new items added each day.) You could still seek it, have a look to see if 'your new friend' is there, and exit again without subscribing if it will let you do that. He could already be listed there, since they have no legal jurisdiction? to remove his site. That's why AntiSpam and similar software is worth the cost (or if it's included by an Internet provider, as mine is). You might have to put a Block in place to discard or preferably Bounce his further mails (back to him) to get rid of him now. Just so ya know... Under Inbox look under Message or Tools for Filters (you'll need his eml address or something distinctive to tell it what to discard or bounce, so you don't discard valid mails you might want). Note, if this were ME and I knew a Lawyer, I'd have my Lawyer Email your friend and tell him you're 'deceased' after stopping medications you were using and receiving his mails. .. IF THAT doesn't get him to vanish, I give up. (Besides you probably didn't grow up with Monty Python like I did... ) G./
mrr5745 - 18 Oct 2005 01:04 GMT I've already marked his e-mail as spam on my account. I of course have no intentions of sending this person any money or personal information about me. I just thought it would be fun to see what he said to his "clients."
What concerns me about this website is people who aren't as informed as we are about epilepsy might actually fall for this...espcially those who are newly diagnosed.
MR
Darwin - 16 Oct 2005 21:30 GMT > Hi everyone.. i was looking up epilepsy in google and came across this > site.. and thought i'd look and i found it to be absolutably (sp?) [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Thanks. > Melx They pretty much state that they're forced to put the disclaimer even though they themselves don't believe it. i.e. They DO believe that they can treat and cure disease and are just putting up the disclaimer because laws demand it.
CC_muc@hotmail.com - 18 Oct 2005 00:15 GMT Hi,
Am new to this group, sorry to intermingle, i am Connie btw, from Netherlands, i looked up the whois info for this domain, if this helps in anyways:
Domain ID:D105668392-LROR Domain Name:EPILEPSYHEALING.ORG Created On:02-Feb-2005 04:31:29 UTC Last Updated On:04-Apr-2005 04:03:31 UTC Expiration Date:02-Feb-2006 04:31:29 UTC Sponsoring Registrar:DSTR Acquisition VII, LLC d/b/a Dotregistrar.com (R114-LROR) Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED Registrant ID:1091873-R Registrant Name:Jan Novotny Registrant Street1:P.O.Box 750882 Registrant Street2: Registrant Street3: Registrant City:Dayton Registrant State/Province:OH Registrant Postal Code:45475 Registrant Country:US Registrant Phone:+1.9376723935 Registrant Phone Ext.: Registrant FAX: Registrant FAX Ext.: Registrant Email:JANNOV72@SBCGLOBAL.NET Admin ID:1091873-A Admin Name:Jan Novotny Admin Street1:P.O.Box 750882 Admin Street2: Admin Street3: Admin City:Dayton Admin State/Province:OH Admin Postal Code:45475 Admin Country:US Admin Phone:+1.9376723935 Admin Phone Ext.: Admin FAX: Admin FAX Ext.: Admin Email:JANNOV72@SBCGLOBAL.NET Tech ID:1091873-T Tech Name:Technical Support Tech Street1:2373 NW 185th Avenue #199 Tech Street2: Tech Street3: Tech City:Hillsboro Tech State/Province:OR Tech Postal Code:97124 Tech Country:US Tech Phone:+1.5032100379 Tech Phone Ext.: Tech FAX:+1.5032100379 Tech FAX Ext.: Tech Email:support-p@Lowesthosting.com Name Server:NS1.LOWESTHOSTING.COM Name Server:NS2.LOWESTHOSTING.COM
and that it the info i could find, i hope that helps, if not just ignore and call me idiot :)
Connie
>Hi everyone.. i was looking up epilepsy in google and came across this >site.. and thought i'd look and i found it to be absolutably (sp?) [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Thanks. >Melx G.Ross - 18 Oct 2005 00:54 GMT > Hi, > Am new to this group, sorry to intermingle, i am Connie btw, from > Netherlands, i looked up the whois info for this domain, if this helps > in anyways: ** Hi, thanks for that. I added some *brief things at **s below. I didn't intend the Other post to rise to 10k long!! G./
> Domain ID:D105668392-LROR > Domain Name:EPILEPSYHEALING.ORG [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Registrant City:Dayton > Registrant State/Province:OH ***************************** G.- So the address that *I assumed was in Europe, is actually a PO Box in Dayton Ohio (above). So he is governed by US trade and healthcare laws. I wonder if he knows that. And his access provider is South? Bell Global sbcglobal.net (below at **s) /
> Registrant Postal Code:45475 > Registrant Country:US [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Admin FAX Ext.: > Admin Email:JANNOV72@SBCGLOBAL.NET *******************************************
> Tech ID:1091873-T > Tech Name:Technical Support [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >>Thanks. >>Melx
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