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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / September 2005

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ZEBRA! -- Seizure Disorder v. Epilepsy

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Dave ©¿©¬ - 23 Aug 2005 22:35 GMT
Howdy!

I've posted this to a couple of other boards so I figured I'd post it here
too:

I just figured out a great way to explain:

"Seizure Disorder" v. "Epilepsy" to people!

Think of "Seizure Disorder" as a ZEBRA!

The doctors attempt to figure out whether you have:

a BLACK ZEBRA WITH WHITE STRIPES (epilepsy) or
a WHITE ZEBRA WITH BLACK STRIPES (seizures due to some other physiological
cause.)

If they can't figure it out they will eventually just call it a ZEBRA and
leave it at that.

Signature

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis ego sum quod ut est quicumque ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com

Mary Fisher - 24 Aug 2005 13:00 GMT
> Howdy!
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> If they can't figure it out they will eventually just call it a ZEBRA and
> leave it at that.

I've got a sudden attack of the dejas!

Haven't you posted this here before?

Mary
Dave ©¿©¬ - 24 Aug 2005 17:43 GMT
> > Howdy!
> >
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Mary

If I have, my appologies!

Signature

Namaste

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis ego sum quod ut est quicumque ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com

G.Ross - 25 Aug 2005 04:41 GMT
>> > Howdy!
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> If I have, my apologies!
Ya dinna ha'e apologize.   In 20 years many o' us aren't going tae either
remember or care a lot anyway.   G./
Mary Fisher - 25 Aug 2005 09:19 GMT
>>> > Howdy!
>>> >
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Ya dinna ha'e apologize.   In 20 years many o' us aren't going tae either
> remember or care a lot anyway.   G./

I certainly didn't need an apology, it was just as good second time round!

Mary
Malcolm - 25 Aug 2005 10:25 GMT
>Howdy!

>The doctors attempt to figure out whether you have:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>If they can't figure it out they will eventually just call it a ZEBRA and
>leave it at that.

They'll only do that if someone complains that it's racist and therefore
politically incorrect. It is denigrating white zebras :)
Signature

Malcolm      

Mary Fisher - 25 Aug 2005 12:47 GMT
>>Howdy!
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> They'll only do that if someone complains that it's racist and therefore
> politically incorrect. It is denigrating white zebras :)

Malcolm! How are you? Good to see you again :-)

Mary
Malcolm - 25 Aug 2005 20:31 GMT
>Malcolm! How are you? Good to see you again :-)

Fine. Whiling away the time before I go off for a 5 day practical
sailing assessment tomorrow which will certify me to charter boats up to
50ft on my own.
It finishes on the 31st and school starts on the 1st, so I've got all my
long, medium, short-term planning and unnecessary governmental paperwork
up to date before term starts so I can relax and recover during the
first week back (?!).

How are you?

                                   
Signature

Malcolm      

Mary Fisher - 25 Aug 2005 21:37 GMT
>>Malcolm! How are you? Good to see you again :-)
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> How are you?

As it happens, I need to find someone who wants a crew ... :-)

Mary
Dave ©¿©¬ - 26 Aug 2005 06:44 GMT
Howdy Mary!

Have you taken a look at my Maritime site?

I have a whole page of links dedicated to maritime employment and crewing
agencies!   ;->

Signature

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis ego sum quod ut est quicumque ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com

> >>Malcolm! How are you? Good to see you again :-)
> >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Mary
Mary Fisher - 26 Aug 2005 11:37 GMT
> Howdy Mary!
>
> Have you taken a look at my Maritime site?
>
> I have a whole page of links dedicated to maritime employment and crewing
> agencies!   ;->

SHADDAP!

I was hinting to Malcolm that if he needs an extra body I might be able to
help ... <whistles>

Mary
Dave ©¿©¬ - 26 Aug 2005 06:48 GMT
> >Malcolm! How are you? Good to see you again :-)
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>                                    

Ahoy Malcom!

Don't forget your sextant and sounding charts!

We wouldn't want you listed as:

"Overdue -- presumed lost at sea"

on the very first day of class!

Signature

Namaste

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis ego sum quod ut est quicumque ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com

Malcolm - 02 Sep 2005 17:38 GMT
>Ahoy Malcom!
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>on the very first day of class!

Not lost.

Not overboard.

And if I said "YEAHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHH!!!!!"
you'll get a good idea of the outcome of my exam :-)

Signature

Malcolm      

Dave ©¿©¬ - 02 Sep 2005 18:05 GMT
> >Ahoy Malcom!
> >
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> And if I said "YEAHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHH!!!!!"
> you'll get a good idea of the outcome of my exam :-)

Howdy Matie!

Or should I say "skipper?"

It went that bad, eh?  :-)

Signature

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis Ego sum quod ut est quicumque Ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com

Malcolm - 02 Sep 2005 21:21 GMT
>It went that bad, eh?  :-)

The mode of assessment certainly rated high+++ on the stress level:
"So you want to be a skipper? Then be one. Here's your crew {3 total
novices}. I'll have them tonight for basic safety training then here's
your itinerary."

And for most purposes that was just about all the support I got. Even
when I asked whether I was doing things right, I got no response from
the examiner. Apart, of course, from a hefty inquisitive grilling about
my epilepsy.

But despite all that, ATM it's difficult to find a Captain's hat large
enough for my head!
Signature

Malcolm      

Mary Fisher - 02 Sep 2005 22:36 GMT
>>It went that bad, eh?  :-)
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> But despite all that, ATM it's difficult to find a Captain's hat large
> enough for my head!

~Ah, I remember and understand now!

Well done! I'm very happy for you :-0

And green with envy :-(

Mary
Dave ©¿©¬ - 03 Sep 2005 01:24 GMT
> >>It went that bad, eh?  :-)
> >
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Mary

Take 2 dramamine and call me in the morning! :-S

Signature

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis Ego sum quod ut est quicumque Ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com

Mary Fisher - 03 Sep 2005 10:59 GMT
>> >>It went that bad, eh?  :-)
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Take 2 dramamine and call me in the morning! :-S

I'll call you anyway. No idea what dramamine is ... do I need it to to be
able to divine your number?

Mary
Dave ©¿©¬ - 04 Sep 2005 17:10 GMT
> >> >>It went that bad, eh?  :-)
> >> >
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Mary

Howdy Mary!

Dramamine is the standard off the shelf medication for motion sickness.

Signature

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis Ego sum quod ut est quicumque Ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com

Mary Fisher - 04 Sep 2005 17:34 GMT
>> >> >>It went that bad, eh?  :-)
>> >> >
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> Dramamine is the standard off the shelf medication for motion sickness.

Thank you. And your phone number?

;-)

By the way, I was green with ENVY,not sea sickness.

Mary
Dave ©¿©¬ - 04 Sep 2005 17:38 GMT
> >> >> >>It went that bad, eh?  :-)
> >> >> >
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
> Mary

Howdy Mary!

My phone number is:

LIcentious 2-6969!

--

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis Ego sum quod ut est quicumque Ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com
Mary Fisher - 04 Sep 2005 20:17 GMT
> Howdy Mary!
>
> My phone number is:
>
> LIcentious 2-6969!

Expect a call :-)

Mary
Mary Fisher - 02 Sep 2005 20:21 GMT
>>Ahoy Malcom!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> And if I said "YEAHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHH!!!!!"
> you'll get a good idea of the outcome of my exam :-)

Congratulations!

er - what exam?

Do you mean you won't be starting a new term on Monday?

Mary
Malcolm - 02 Sep 2005 22:23 GMT
>Congratulations!
>
>er - what exam?
>
>Do you mean you won't be starting a new term on Monday?

Lost the thread have we? :-)

It's not rocket science, but it's the minimum qualification required to
charter a yacht (1-2000 pounds per week). Add 500 pounds upwards per
week to pay the chartering skipper.
There are plenty of people who are prepared to get together for a
skippered sailing holiday in the sun for 2500 pounds.

Sounds great in theory, doesn't it? But that's not the route I'm going.
I want to get more involved in the local sailing for the disabled
scheme. And today I've been booked to assist on a large schooner (not
quite tall-ships) for next July, sailing with the blind in the South-
west UK.

It just opens a whole range of possibilities, moving from crewing to
being in charge. A big jump which I have yet to absorb fully.

SPLASH!!!
Signature

Malcolm      

Mary Fisher - 02 Sep 2005 22:37 GMT
>>Congratulations!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Lost the thread have we? :-)

I've already 'fessed ...

> It's not rocket science, but it's the minimum qualification required to
> charter a yacht (1-2000 pounds per week). Add 500 pounds upwards per
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> quite tall-ships) for next July, sailing with the blind in the South-
> west UK.

Good on yer!

> It just opens a whole range of possibilities, moving from crewing to
> being in charge. A big jump which I have yet to absorb fully.
>
> SPLASH!!!

Hold on - I have medals for lifesaving ...

SPLASH!!!!

Mary
Malcolm - 03 Sep 2005 17:02 GMT
>> SPLASH!!!
>
>Hold on - I have medals for lifesaving ...
>
>SPLASH!!!!

You need to renew your life saving medals - the last thing you do is get
in the water to help.

Unless, of course, you're thinking of skinny dipping?

Signature

Malcolm      

Mary Fisher - 03 Sep 2005 22:12 GMT
>>> SPLASH!!!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> You need to renew your life saving medals - the last thing you do is get
> in the water to help.

If you're floundering in there I'm no good on dry land.

> Unless, of course, you're thinking of skinny dipping?

Now that COULD cause a need for resuscitation.

Mary
G.Ross - 03 Sep 2005 23:38 GMT
>>>> SPLASH!!!
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Now that COULD cause a need for resuscitation.
> Mary

If he'd brought his banjo along, he could have tried a Tuna, so we could
fish him out...  :-<
Malcolm - 04 Sep 2005 07:52 GMT
>>>>> SPLASH!!!
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>If he'd brought his banjo along, he could have tried a Tuna, so we could
>fish him out...  :-<

There are very strict regulations for tuna fishing on the Net now.
Something to do with dolphins or the wavs being too big to save.

;-<<

(And I though ASA was the NG for endless pun threads!)
Signature

Malcolm      

Dave ©¿©¬ - 04 Sep 2005 17:13 GMT
> >>>>> SPLASH!!!
> >>>>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> (And I though ASA was the NG for endless pun threads!)

Howdy Malcom!

Sorry... you're not allowed to have pun on this group!
We're all "dead in the water" serious!

Signature

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis Ego sum quod ut est quicumque Ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com

Mary Fisher - 04 Sep 2005 17:34 GMT
>> >>>>> SPLASH!!!
>> >>>>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> Sorry... you're not allowed to have pun on this group!
> We're all "dead in the water" serious!

Hold on there, you might not be 100% dead - this is my chance for the kiss
of life :-)

Mary
Dave ©¿©¬ - 04 Sep 2005 17:47 GMT
> >> >>>>> SPLASH!!!
> >> >>>>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> Mary

Pucker up and revive me Mary!

Signature

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis Ego sum quod ut est quicumque Ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com

Mary Fisher - 04 Sep 2005 20:18 GMT
>> >> >>>>> SPLASH!!!
>> >> >>>>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
> Pucker up and revive me Mary!

Hold nose. Lift chin. Blow - two - three - four - blow - two-three - four -
...

Never thought I'd be giving you a blow job, Dave ...

Mary
Dave ©¿©¬ - 05 Sep 2005 00:10 GMT
> >> >> >>>>> SPLASH!!!
> >> >> >>>>
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>
> Mary

What can I say:

You take whatever you can get!

or maybe

You don't know what you're missing unless you've tried it in Cyberspace!

This whole thread is degenerating into something quite seedy, isn't it?  On
Sunday too!!!!   :-)

(See... I've got one just like Malcom!)

Signature

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis Ego sum quod ut est quicumque Ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com

Malcolm - 05 Sep 2005 06:03 GMT
>This whole thread is degenerating into something quite seedy, isn't it?  On
>Sunday too!!!!   :-)

There's nothing wrong with a derailed thread - it makes for good cyber-
socialising. And to those who might shout "TAKE IT ONTO E-MAIL" I say
"But then it wouldn't be open for anyone else to join in."

Over on ASA we have threads which run for hundreds of posts, starting
off with eg. the price of oil and ending up with a complex discussion
about whether dinosaurs had the same type of DNA and enzymes as life
today. And there'll nearly always be a good sub-thread of puns.

So don't knock the seedy degenerated threads too much Dave. ASE seems to
have been a very quiet group recently, almost struggling to keep going,
even if it is a small core of posters.

I sometimes wonder there's another PhD waiting on the analysis of cyber-
interaction.  
Signature

Malcolm      

Mary Fisher - 05 Sep 2005 12:29 GMT
>>This whole thread is degenerating into something quite seedy, isn't it?
>>On
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> about whether dinosaurs had the same type of DNA and enzymes as life
> today.

And do they?

> And there'll nearly always be a good sub-thread of puns.
>
> So don't knock the seedy degenerated threads too much Dave.

I don't think he was knocking it in a nsty way, Malcolm, I think he just
enjoys knocking.

At least, that's the word on the street ...

ASE seems to

Mary
Dave ©¿©¬ - 05 Sep 2005 16:09 GMT
Howdy!

No nocking it or repromands intended!

I'm just making an observation.

By all means, lets carry on...

Signature

Namaste

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis Ego sum quod ut est quicumque Ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com

> >>This whole thread is degenerating into something quite seedy, isn't it?
> >>On
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Mary
Mary Fisher - 05 Sep 2005 16:42 GMT
> Howdy!
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> By all means, lets carry on...

See what I mean, folks?

<VBG>

Mary

>> >>This whole thread is degenerating into something quite seedy, isn't it?
>> >>On
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>>
>> Mary
Mary Fisher - 05 Sep 2005 12:28 GMT
>> >> >> >>>>> SPLASH!!!
>> >> >> >>>>
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
>
> (See... I've got one just like Malcom!)

You've been behind the bike sheds!

Mary
Dave ©¿©¬ - 05 Sep 2005 16:13 GMT
> >> >> >> >>>>> SPLASH!!!
> >> >> >> >>>>
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
>
> Mary

Howdy Mary!

There was an old song called:

"I got my education out behind the barn"

Lots of truth in that! (If you're not a city dweller.)

Signature

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis Ego sum quod ut est quicumque Ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com

Mary Fisher - 05 Sep 2005 16:43 GMT
>> > This whole thread is degenerating into something quite seedy, isn't it?
>> > On
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Lots of truth in that! (If you're not a city dweller.)

er - I really don't think I got across my meaning.

Malcolm will understand :-)

Mary
Dave ©¿©¬ - 05 Sep 2005 16:52 GMT
> >> > This whole thread is degenerating into something quite seedy, isn't it?
> >> > On
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Mary

Howdy Mary!

Don't be too sure...

Were you talking about relieving some of the everyday pressure that builds
up when you drink too many fluids?

AND

Were you talking about Malcom and I relieving ourselves at the same time and
"comparing notes"?

Comparing notes is one way to "educate" yourself!

Signature

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis Ego sum quod ut est quicumque Ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com

Mary Fisher - 05 Sep 2005 17:17 GMT
>> >> > This whole thread is degenerating into something quite seedy, isn't
> it?
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Were you talking about relieving some of the everyday pressure that builds
> up when you drink too many fluids?

No.

> AND
>
> Were you talking about Malcom and I relieving ourselves at the same time
> and
> "comparing notes"?

No.

> Comparing notes is one way to "educate" yourself!

It wasn't notes I was thinking of being compared.

<whistles>
Dave ©¿©¬ - 05 Sep 2005 17:25 GMT
> >> >> > This whole thread is degenerating into something quite seedy, isn't
> > it?
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>
> <whistles>

WELL THEN....

Sounds like what we do "out behind the barn" here in North America is
exactly what you folks in the UK do "behind the bycicle shed"

Have your first smoke,
Read your first girlie magazine,
Get your first kiss,
Other "first encounters" with the opposite sex,
etc.

Signature

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis Ego sum quod ut est quicumque Ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com

G.Ross - 05 Sep 2005 18:20 GMT
>> >> >> > This whole thread is degenerating into something quite seedy,
>> >> >> > isn't it?
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
> Other "first encounters" with the opposite sex,
> etc.
They're talking about what us olde people in N.America used to call Playing
Doctor, before the America Medical Association complained,  and the XXX TV
networks.....   G./
Mary Fisher - 05 Sep 2005 21:22 GMT
>> It wasn't notes I was thinking of being compared.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Sounds like what we do "out behind the barn" here in North America is
> exactly what you folks in the UK do "behind the bycicle shed"

Hey! Not me ...

> Have your first smoke,
> Read your first girlie magazine,
> Get your first kiss,
> Other "first encounters" with the opposite sex,
> etc.

No. I was talking about what boys do.

Reputedly.

Mary
Malcolm - 04 Sep 2005 20:14 GMT
>> Sorry... you're not allowed to have pun on this group!
>> We're all "dead in the water" serious!
>
>Hold on there, you might not be 100% dead - this is my chance for the kiss
>of life :-)

Insert "my" :-)

Signature

Malcolm      

Mary Fisher - 04 Sep 2005 20:36 GMT
>>> Sorry... you're not allowed to have pun on this group!
>>> We're all "dead in the water" serious!
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Insert "my" :-)

Insert your what?

Mary
Dave ©¿©¬ - 04 Sep 2005 17:22 GMT
Howdy!

RE: Popeye's musings --

"Ego sum quis Ego sum quod ut est quicumque Ego sum"

translates:

"I am what I am and that's all that I am!" - POPEYE

Signature

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis Ego sum quod ut est quicumque Ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com

jacque1in@yahoo.com - 25 Aug 2005 15:36 GMT
There's a difference between seizure disorder and epilepsy?  I thought
one was just a newer term for the same old thing.  Leaving the zebra
example out of it, what IS the difference?

Jacque1in
Dave ©¿©¬ - 25 Aug 2005 18:34 GMT
Seizure disorder is any kind of siezures regardless of the cause.

Remember your Set Theory from math?
Epilepsy is a proper subset of seizure disorder.

see:  http://my.webmd.com/content/article/87/99658.htm

Signature

Namaste

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis ego sum quod ut est quicumque ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com

> There's a difference between seizure disorder and epilepsy?  I thought
> one was just a newer term for the same old thing.  Leaving the zebra
> example out of it, what IS the difference?
>
> Jacque1in
Mary Fisher - 25 Aug 2005 21:37 GMT
> Seizure disorder is any kind of siezures regardless of the cause.
>
> Remember your Set Theory from math?
> Epilepsy is a proper subset of seizure disorder.

Oh - and all this time I thought seizure disorder was a proper subset of
epilepsy :-(

Mary
jacque1in@yahoo.com - 26 Aug 2005 16:34 GMT
Thank you, that makes perfect sense.  I realized that not all seizures
were epilepsy, but we've gotten used to professionals using "seizure
disorder" and "epilepsy" as synonyms for our son's condition, so I
hadn't realized there was a distinction.  The site you linked to
further clarifies what he has as "symptomatic generalized epilepsy," as
his seizures are the result of brain trauma at birth which also left
him with mild ataxic cerebral palsy, mental retardation, and autistic
spectrum disorder.  He has tonic clonic and absence seizures, myoclonic
jerks, and complex partial seizures that generalize, plus little
tremors and facial twitches where he doesn't lose consciousness that I
don't know how to classify.

His most recent EEGs also show constant abnormal brainwave activity
that has been explained to us as "basically being in seizure mode all
the time, even if it isn't demonstrating itself physically," which I
also don't quite grasp.  Does he experience altered perceptions then?
Altered processing? Perhaps altered memory building?  I do know it
seems to cause a lot of headaches for him, though, my poor baby.

Jacque1in
G.Ross - 26 Aug 2005 17:16 GMT
> Thank you, that makes perfect sense.  I realized that not all seizures
> were epilepsy, but we've gotten used to professionals using "seizure
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> seems to cause a lot of headaches for him, though, my poor baby.
> Jacque1in

  I would take the last paragraph above (at **s) to mean that the type of
szrs. he has do not occur then stop,  but are in constant activity.
Depending on what he feels, that could be really distracting, wrt. learning
to read or do school work etc.   I took an analogy to be trying to read near
one of those Neon lights in a Library that are about to burn out and Buzz
**all the time**  while you try and try to read, but it keeps on with that
&^^%%%    BUZZ  overhead...

  You didn't mention what his age was.   ??

   Has he developed language so he can relate to what any of  above means?
so if he were experiencing pain in a certain area can he tell you or show
you where it was happening?
 (I had a period of about 3-4 weeks where I had intense 'inside headaches'
at certain times -- it turned out to appear to be ahead of rain storms when
Air Pressure was dropping, and I expect my blood vessels might puff up then
for a period until I adapted to the change, then the feeling would pass.
But it still took 3-4 hours of pain  for that to happen.)
 I wondered if he might be experiencing either auras (dizzy, disoriented
feelings,  tastes or aromas that weren't there), but might not be able to
tell you when those were happening.   And if he's been having any of these
symptoms since Birth, these are 'normal'  to him,  so even those that are
either painful or distracting for him,  they're what he's been used to, as
he's developed.

    Please keep us posted with whatever you find and as he is treated.
I'd really rather have an Adult have these than a Child, as at least some
times the Doctor can explain to us what is happening and whether we might
improve or not with medicines or other treatments.    Best wishes.   G./
jacque1in@yahoo.com - 26 Aug 2005 19:46 GMT
He just turned 18, and although his language skills aren't too bad, he
struggles a lot with expressing abstractions and expressing how he
feels, both physically and emotionally.  "My head hurts." "I've got a
brain ache." "My bones are creaking." are pretty typical Daniel
statements.  As you can see, sometimes they take deciphering.

He only started really relating to his seizures in the past year,
although he's had them, except for a break from ages 6-13, since he was
two. Up until last year, he took at face value that he had had a
seizure when we told him he had one, and he would just say "I had a
seizure? I'm tired. Let me rest," but couldn't tell us what happened
from his own experience and honestly didn't seem interested.

But last summer he started saying, "I did NOT have a seizure!" or "My
ARMS had the seizure, *I* did not have the seizure!"  It seems that as
he's matured, he's started to think about his experience of the
seizures for the first time and he concluded that if he didn't remember
the seizure or only remembered how it began with his arms tremoring,
then it didn't happen.  From his perspective, his arms shook and then,
presto, he was in the nurse's office.  We had to have quite a long talk
about how seizures "erase your memory" (which is a gross
simplification, but the most he can understand), and he's finally
accepted that even if he doesn't remember the seizure, it still
happened.  I hadn't thought until he began to deny the seizures about
how terrifying it has to be to lose time like that and have everyone
but you be in on the reason why.

One big positive of this increased self awareness is that he's finally
able tell us when he's feeling a possible seizure coming on, for the
first time.  He is now able to say "I don't feel well," or "I was
shaking" or "I'm feeling cranky," any of which can indicate oncoming or
hidden seizure activity.  (We haven't quite gotten to "I think I'm
going to have a seizure," but we're working on it.) Because this kind
of reporting was new, it took a while to adjust to these being valid,
and not just
teen-boy-wanting-to-stay-home-and-watch-tv-instead-of-going-out kind of
comments, but we learned the hard way that when he said he didn't feel
well enough to do something, especially earlier this summer, he meant
it.  A few times, we did things when he said he didn't want to and he'd
end up having small seizures while we were out in public.  Now, if
Daniel says he doesn't feel well, we stay home.  (And we never go
anywhere without his Ativan, even if he is fine when we leave.)

Most of the time, his pre-seizure symptoms seem to be headaches and
sometimes something to do with his stomach.  (What, I'm not sure, since
the best we get from is a moan and "Oooooh, my stomach!!!!" followed by
more moaning.)  He rubs his head a lot, complains about his brain
hurting, and usually starts suggesting any ailment other than seizures.

We also suspect he may have some light sensitivity issues with
fluorescents.  He does not react to strobes, but he's had an unusual
number of seizures in the local Walmart and in the brightly lit kitchen
at his school, enough so that we now make him wear dark sunglasses and
a hat any time he is going to be in flickering light conditions
indoors.  It has seemed to help.

This has all become more of an issue this summer as his seizure
frequency went up dramatically in the past year, with a real peak this
summer.  The most worrisome thing was that his post-ictal periods were
REALLY long earlier this summer.  I mean like 5 and 7 1/2 hours long,
with him still not feeling well when he would finally wake up from
them, and they would wipe him out for the rest of the day even once he
woke up.

We are in the process of changing meds again, though, from topomax to
depakote, and so far (although it's only been three weeks), so good
(not so much as a tremor!),  so we're keeping out fingers crossed.  The
second week on the depakote he voluntarily went into a store for the
first time in MONTHS, because he felt well enough to deal with the
people and the lights, and he didn't seize.  This makes me hopeful, but
I'm not counting any chickens until he's been the depakote for a long
while since he has a history of doing well on a drug for the first
months and then suddenly degrading.

Sorry for the lengthy post.  I guess I needed to talk about it!  ANd
thank you for sharing what the inside headache experience was like.
That sounds a lot like what he acts is happening sometimes.  I have
migraines when it is going to storm, so I know with my own body what
that kind of aura feels like, and I sometimes think that Daniel's
seizure activity is like that as well.  

Jacque1in
G.Ross - 26 Aug 2005 21:12 GMT
> He just turned 18, and although his language skills aren't too bad, he
> struggles a lot with expressing abstractions and expressing how he
> feels, both physically and emotionally.  "My head hurts." "I've got a
> brain ache." "My bones are creaking." are pretty typical Daniel
> statements.  As you can see, sometimes they take deciphering.
** I don't have much experience with someone who started as a child, but
until someone shows up who did, we can continue and maybe they'll have some
ideas tonight or this weekend.  I wondered if he had difficulty learning,
etc. how he might express what a szr. feels like and also others here have
grown up with some types of szrs. so I thought his age (for them too) would
be useful.  Thanks.

   There might be some delay? produced by seizures and puberty colliding?
but I don't know if those 2 interfere a lot or just somewhat as he was
maturing.   Some of the type I had produced a severe 'inside headache'  that
I later related to periods of Low Air Pressure (like ahead of a rainstorm),
and the pressure on the forehead or 'inside' could be accurately described
like he did in first 2 statements on your example above.  (I don't know how
to relate to no.3, but if he's had these since childhood and possibly also
has audio hallucinations as part of some seizures, that could produce his
no.3 sensation too. )
   But there was a period where I'd feel really 'low'  and lethargic ahead
of the weather (storm) front moving in, and I still get that 6 years later,
but milder so I usually don't have to go lie down until the weather front
has fully arrived. It's hard to describe that, but like the Ultimate Blahs,
where nothing matters, you can't Read, don't want to listen to the Radio,
and feel really restless.   *Sometimes a cold Drink or juice or pop can help
if it's warm out,  or Tea or Hot Chocolate in Winter.  (Some of our
medications react with *Grapefruit Juice.    I don't know and didn't look up
his ones, to see if there are advisories about that, but Tegretol
(Carbamazepine) is one that gets messed up and we can wonder Why did That
Feeling happen today? and never relate it to a Juice we had with our Morning
Pills...  since a Time Released Pill might not stop working for 4-6 hours
afterwatd.  /

> He only started really relating to his seizures in the past year,
> although he's had them, except for a break from ages 6-13, since he was
> two. Up until last year, he took at face value that he had had a
> seizure when we told him he had one, and he would just say "I had a
> seizure? I'm tired. Let me rest," but couldn't tell us what happened
> from his own experience and honestly didn't seem interested.
** The seizure types where we lose consciousness, we're often not aware just
ahead or longer before we collapse.   Whatever we say or do during that
period disappears, and most of us who have that, have to depend on others
telling us what happened.  The feeling of wanting to just go lie down/ leave
me alone/ afterward,   is a common post-seizure feeling.   If he has some
music he likes or something like that, you could play that, or put on his
favorite radio station low, and just let him come back when he can.    I
found some of songs that I liked helped when I got to the point where I knew
I'd had a seizure and 'this was going to take an hour or so' to come
back...Anything that's relaxing seemed to help when I was uncontrolled.   /

> But last summer he started saying, "I did NOT have a seizure!" or "My
> ARMS had the seizure, *I* did not have the seizure!"  It seems that as
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> how terrifying it has to be to lose time like that and have everyone
> but you be in on the reason why.
*** Hmmm.  I wondered about puberty too.  That's O.K. the way he did it.
We're very conscious, even when we're Olde, about what something happening
in our heads might mean.  So possibly by distancing himself (during that
time) from the seizure, by putting it 'over there'  (into his arms), that
still helped him to mature and adjust to having seizures as part of the way
he is at the moment. /

> One big positive of this increased self awareness is that he's finally
> able tell us when he's feeling a possible seizure coming on, for the
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Daniel says he doesn't feel well, we stay home.  (And we never go
> anywhere without his Ativan, even if he is fine when we leave.)

G.  The headaches or other feelings I described earlier are sometimes
included on sites as part of the Aura of a seizure, that can precede one, or
just happen on its own then pass.  Since we're used to the Aura being a sign
that 'the rest'  is about to happen too, that feeling can make us fearful
that we're going to have a full onset seizure.   And once I was prescribed
and discovered my Ativan, I still carry a small pillbox with 2 tablets in
it.   I haven't needed one now since a Large Crowd, ahead of Christmas last
year, but I still carry it for safety. /

> Most of the time, his pre-seizure symptoms seem to be headaches and
> sometimes something to do with his stomach.  (What, I'm not sure, since
> the best we get from is a moan and "Oooooh, my stomach!!!!" followed by
> more moaning.)  He rubs his head a lot, complains about his brain
> hurting, and usually starts suggesting any ailment other than seizures.

*** Some people here might post about Stomach feelings.  The brain feeling,
if it was like mine, feels like someone is blowing up a Balloon from the
Inside ....  I never found anything that helped that.  Possibly others here
would know if cool drinks or candies or ?? might help.   Nothing I tried
seemed to help, until it just passed.   I suspect it's a swollen blood
vessel producing that *inside feeling I described here.   Possibly a cool
cloth might help?   I didn't try that.  /

> We also suspect he may have some light sensitivity issues with
> fluorescents.  He does not react to strobes, but he's had an unusual
> number of seizures in the local Walmart and in the brightly lit kitchen
> at his school, enough so that we now make him wear dark sunglasses and
> a hat any time he is going to be in flickering light conditions
> indoors.  It has seemed to help.
*** I used to get headaches in some stores that used Fluorescent lighting.
I think the Flicker Rate, if any bulbs are getting old or just on their own,
can produce a Photosensitive Effect in some of us.  I only had that feeling
for a period of 6-8 months, then it stopped on its own. Lights that flash
around like old Movie Marquees,  I don't like being near.  /

> This has all become more of an issue this summer as his seizure
> frequency went up dramatically in the past year, with a real peak this
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> while since he has a history of doing well on a drug for the first
> months and then suddenly degrading.
*** That's good.   I haven't used either of those pills, but people 'around
here' have.  The fact that he willingly wanted to do that  though, I think,
is a good sign that he wants to take control of this thing and not let it
push him around.   He should be proud for doing that -- you too.   /

> Sorry for the lengthy post.  I guess I needed to talk about it!  And
> thank you for sharing what the inside headache experience was like.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> seizure activity is like that as well.
> Jacque1in

(See note I put above too about feelings ahead of Low Air pressure. You
might be reacting though differently, to that change in air pressure, that
might give some of us blah feelings ahead of rain.)
   One day, I'll tell you what a Lengthy post looks like...  :-<    G./
 
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