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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / August 2005

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Dogs predict seizures

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Julie - 28 Jul 2005 22:54 GMT
I thought the group would find this article about dogs of interest from
New Scientist.  My husband found the article and said to me "I guess you
already knew this".  My dog always stays real close to me when I'm not
feeling well.  But that could just be her herding instinct.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6047

Take care,
Julie, Volunteer Webmaster
Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org
G.Ross - 28 Jul 2005 23:14 GMT
>I thought the group would find this article about dogs of interest from
> New Scientist.  My husband found the article and said to me "I guess you
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho
> http://www.epilepsyidaho.org

Very strange.  That's a fairly recent article from Alberta and says that
"previously Seizure alert dogs had only been anecdotal, etc."
  I saw a talk at the Annual Convention of Toronto Ep. Associaton about
1995-7, where an Animal School, north of Toronto, was training Seizure Alert
Dogs, and also ones that would react when a Senior Citizen had a fainting
spell or Heart condition and could butt an Alarm button that would call for
help-- either at a Senior's home, or from an Emergency Service.
   The Alert Dog was a major help for people who had formerly been unable
to go out shopping or away from home without another person with them.   The
Dogs allowed them to dispel the fear of having a seizure while away, and the
dog would guide them to safety and stay with them, if they started to have
an onset or had a full seizure.   (The ones here, have a 'Seizure Alert'
logo on the red vest they wear, identifying them as Alert Dogs and who to
contact if the person were to collapse while out.)    G./
   (The Scientist site also has some kind of Popup, that my Popup killer
discarded as I opened the link, for anyone who might react to screen
movements unrelated to our site.)   //
Mary Fisher - 29 Jul 2005 09:27 GMT
>>I thought the group would find this article about dogs of interest from
>> New Scientist.  My husband found the article and said to me "I guess you
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> Alert' logo on the red vest they wear, identifying them as Alert Dogs and
> who to contact if the person were to collapse while out.)    G./

Such dogs are trained and used in UK too. It's certainly not a new system -
although it's probably being improved all the time.

Mary
G.Ross - 29 Jul 2005 15:29 GMT
> "G.Ross" >>

>> "Julie" <efiwebusa@netscape.net> wrote in message
>>>I thought the group would find this article about dogs of interest from
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> system - although it's probably being improved all the time.
> Mary

That's true.  At the time I saw the talk they didn't know why the breeds
that worked were able to predict or react to a seizure onset.   Although one
idea suggested we start to perspire with some szr. onsets,  the person
demonstrating how they work (at the talk I saw),  were just using their body
gestures, and waving hands as she started to simulate a collapse,  that some
types of seizure onsets apparently display to get the dog to react.  (Since
I've never seen one of my own, I only know what the early ones looked like
from Witness Statements I got later.)
  And the vests here were new, so that people could take them out shopping
or to stores, similar to Seeing Eye Dogs.   I don't know if many other
locations accept those vests as a standard  identifier yet or not.     G./
Dave ©¿©¬ - 29 Jul 2005 18:32 GMT
> > "G.Ross" >>
>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> or to stores, similar to Seeing Eye Dogs.   I don't know if many other
> locations accept those vests as a standard  identifier yet or not.     G./

Howdy!

Any dog worth his/her salt should have been able to detect that the
demonstration was a phony seizure and should not have responded -- right?

Signature

Namaste

Dave ©¿©
"Ego sum quis ego sum quod ut est quicumque ego sum"

http://www.howdydave.com

G.Ross - 29 Jul 2005 19:10 GMT
> Howdy!
> Any dog worth his/her salt should have been able to detect that the
> demonstration was a phony seizure and should not have responded -- right?
Ah !!   But maybe he was just showing off to impress us at the Demo....since
he knew he wouldn't get any Kibble if he didn't perform.  And if they didn't
have some way to Simulate a seizure, how would they train pups (mostly
terriers and collies?)  what a seizure looked like?
  Another one (same school) I saw on a TV show here (we did some posts
about at the time),  would wait a period of time, and if the person who
collapsed didn't return to consciousness,  it would run over and 'butt' a
wall button (about 3 inches/ 7cm in diameter, above the baseboards) with his
nose.   That would summon the staff at this particular Seniors Home who
would come to check on the status of the person.
   As well as seizure alert, some of these were used for Panic Attacks, and
people with Heart or other conditions that might lead to their losing
consciousness.      /G. >
G.Ross - 29 Jul 2005 19:24 GMT
>> That's true.  At the time I saw the talk they didn't know why the breeds
>> that worked were able to predict or react to a seizure onset.   Although
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Any dog worth his/her salt should have been able to detect that the
> demonstration was a phony seizure and should not have responded -- right?
But if you couldn't fake at seizure,  how would you go about training a
seizure alert dog exactly?  If you had to take them to places where people
with Epilepsy Live in order to have them see a real one from a fake one that
would likely take extra time and make them more costly than they are
already.
  The intention (I think) of the training was to get the dog to help if
someone appeared to be having a health crisis-  not to determine if they
were faking it or not.    /G.
Sofia - 30 Jul 2005 23:16 GMT
> But if you couldn't fake at seizure,  how would you go about training a
> seizure alert dog exactly?  If you had to take them to places where people
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> someone appeared to be having a health crisis-  not to determine if they
> were faking it or not.    /G.

I shouldn't think it's too hard, you see, I didn't even have to train my
little black dog, Harry, after I bought him from the R.S.P.C.A.

As I tend to have around 10-15 absences and up to 5 complex partials per
day, he began to pick up the signs of when I was about to have one, and
alert hubby. I also tend to have about 2-3 grand mal seizures per month,
which meant Harry also used to detect when I was about to have one of
those, go and tell hubby in his own kind of way, who in turn used to
quickly run to catch me before I fell onto something dangerous.

We had Harry for nearly 15 years, but unfortunately he died just before
Halloween last year, yet I still can't bear to throw away any of his
belongings.

 

Sofie
G.Ross - 31 Jul 2005 00:35 GMT
>>    The intention (I think) of the training was to get the dog to help if
>> someone appeared to be having a health crisis-  not to determine if they
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> belongings.
> Sofie

  Sounds like it might be time for a trip back to the Pound?  They're
sometimes hard to replace, but I expect they provide as much companionship
and psychological support sometimes, as the seizure recognition skills.
And it already sounds like you or your family had the skills to train Harry,
you probably could train another one.
   I think the breed the Toronto Company was training were Border Collies
and Terriers, but a film they showed us, I think the dog was a Labrador.
Probably several of the breeds may be sensitive to the reactions of their
owner.   G./
Sofia - 20 Aug 2005 22:31 GMT
>     I think the breed the Toronto Company was training were Border Collies
> and Terriers, but a film they showed us, I think the dog was a Labrador.
> Probably several of the breeds may be sensitive to the reactions of their
> owner.   G./

Harry was a little black Labrador/mongrel. I think therefore that you seem
to have gotten the sensitivity of certain breeds absolutely spot on, as
the  Labrador seems to be one of the most intelligent.

I suppose that's why they're a favourite to be trained as guide dogs for
the blind!

Sofie
G.Ross - 26 Aug 2005 17:46 GMT
"Sofia" <> wrote in message ...

>>     I think the breed the Toronto Company was training were Border
>> Collies
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> the blind!
> Sofie

  I had one briefly (pre-diagnosis)  that we were caring for, for some
friends, for 6 months or so.  They seemed more Mellow than some breeds, so
are probably more suited to guiding, care of humans, patience if someone had
a seizure, etc.   G./
Mary Fisher - 29 Jul 2005 20:31 GMT
From the websiteof the UK seizure alert from dogs site.

For some people their dog can be so much more than just a pet. Man's best
friend can be literally life saving, providing assistance in a variety of
situations.
Guide dogs for the blind are probably the best known assistance dogs. Many
readers may also have heard of hearing dogs for deaf people or may know
about PAT dogs, which are taken into hospitals and hospices to visit
patients. Have you also heard of support dogs?

Support Dogs is a charity established in 1992 by dog trainer Val Strong. The
charity has pioneered the training of seizure alert dogs - the charity's
main focus today. It is the only organisation in the world that undertakes
training for this purpose.

The philosophy behind Support Dogs is 'to improve the quality of life for
people with epilepsy, physical disabilities and other medical conditions by
training and educating dogs to act as safe and efficient assistants'.

Funded entirely by donations and sponsorship, and with no cost to the
client, the cost of training and aftercare is around £5,000 for each dog.

Seizure alert dogs are trained to detect the signs of an imminent seizure
and to warn their owners, giving them enough time to get to a place of
safety. The dogs can give their owners an accurate warning of between 20-45
minutes. The type and length of warning each dog can give remains consistent
so that the person knows exactly how long they have before the seizure
happens.

The way in which the dogs warn their owner varies from one dog to another.
The warning may be a bark or whine, or the dog may jump up or paw the owner.
Dogs that are in seizure alert training must not have seen a seizure
previously, so Support Dogs will not train the owner's pet dog. Instead,
dogs are selected from rescue centres. Each dog is carefully selected to
ensure they are of the appropriate temperament and are 'people orientated'.
They need to be confident and sociable as well as being able to undertake
the work of a support dog.

Most breeds can be trained, given the right temperament. Support Dogs has
identified traits in some dogs that make them more suitable for this type of
work; these dogs are more responsive to seizure activity.

Each dog is trained with its new owner so that they can learn to identify
the owner's specific seizure activity. It is not clear how the dogs can
identify when a seizure is about to occur, but it is thought they may be
picking up on unique signs of seizures: physiological or behavioural changes
that the people themselves and those around them are not aware of. This
could include pupils dilating or changes in facial expressions or colour.

The first step for each dog on its road to becoming a seizure alert dog is
to live with a foster carer for around three to six months. During this time
the foster carer helps to socialise the dog and teaches them obedience
training and social skills.

Once this socialisation is complete each dog is trained for at least another
170 hours, including using their obedience skills in a variety of settings
outside of the home. During this time the dog wears a red training jacket.

While being trained at the Support Dogs training centre, each dog is placed
with a prospective owner. The dog and its new owner are then trained
together at the centre's residential facility, to teach the dog 'to assist
and support owners with their specific disability'. Training then continues
at the client's home.

The last stage of the training is the final assessment. After passing this
assessment they are given full 'assistance dog' status. Now they are
qualified to wear the distinctive yellow jacket that gives them instant
recognition as an assistance dog. This will have the words Support Dog on
it.

But the support does not end there. Trainers from Support Dogs will visit
the client and their dog on a regular basis to see how the partnership is
getting along and to ensure that everything is working.

So far Support Dogs have trained over 125 dogs of which around 25 are
seizure alert dogs.

Support Dogs also train dogs to provide assistance to their owners in other
ways.

Medical assistance dogs are trained to meet the needs of people with medical
conditions such as hypoglycaemia (diabetes), agoraphobia and Meniere's
disease. The dogs can help by bringing the person their medication or by
getting help or pressing an alarm if the person becomes ill.

Disability assistance dogs are often the client's own pet dogs who are
trained to help their owner with everyday activities. From the beginning of
the training the dog and client work together to teach the dogs tasks such
as opening and closing doors, switching lights on and off, loading and
unloading the washing machine, picking up, fetching and carrying objects.
They can also be trained to help their owner to dress and provide stability
to people when walking.

No matter which discipline they are trained in, all assistance dogs have the
authorisation of the Department of Health and Environment for access to all
areas including shops, on public transport and areas serving food such as
cafes and restaurants.

Support Dogs are a member of Assistance Dogs UK, which also include Guide
Dogs for the Blind and Hearing Dogs for Deaf People.
jan - 01 Aug 2005 02:24 GMT
I have always found the idea of a dog helping people with epilepsy
interesting,and I wonder if other animals are also able predict a
seizure. I would like to share this story with you which will make you
also wonder if they can. My sister owns and operates a horse riding
camp, where children stay a week at a time during the school holidays.
I am the cook and have been for 15 years. My children had to come with
me so they just became extra riding camp kids and mixed in and also
learnt to ride. My youngest daughter developed epilepsy at 13, so she
was no longer able to ride with the camp kids.{you know insurance
issues, us being aware of a potentual fall etc.etc}. But she would
still ride in the uninsured times with her friends. Emily has seizures
most days and has all types of seizures. She has had Two seizures while
on different horses that have made us think that they know of it. The
first was while in an enclosed yard and just walking. The horse she was
riding doesn't like his rear being touched and would move away to avoid
it. My sister wasn't keen on her riding it ,but Emily had insisted, as
its in an enclosed yard. The group were walking in a circle and my
sister noticed Emily just sitting on the horse in a vacancy. She sent
two teenagers over to her. They helped her get off the horse, but she
wouldn't move away. She was leaning on this horses rear and getting
anoyed with the helpers and pushing them away. The horse doesn"t kick
just usually moves to the side, but it stood still with Emily leaning
and moving on his rear. Eventually Emily could be moved. The second
time was while on a trail ride with ten other children aged between 14
and 18. Emily was 16. The riding camp is held on a 3,000 acre farm,
fully fenced into different paddocks with all sandy soil and no
traffic. The group take a mobile phone ,so I feel she is as safe as she
can be on a horse. The riding camp horses just go to the group if the
rider falls, so even if Emily was dragged its only for a short time.
Emily had to take Creeda, considered the safest horse in the camp.The
friends keep a watch on Emily of course. This day the group were
cantering along when Creeda dropped back to a trot, Then as he was
coming into a walk Emily went into a major seizure. She fell just as he
was stopping. She was now under the horse, very vocal and kicking the
horses legs. But Creeda was not moving. The girls were turning around
by now and got to Creeda. Even though he is safe to fall from they were
worried incase  he just lifted his leg when she kicked him, that he
would step on her. The girls couldn't move him away, so they dragged
Emily still in the seizure out from under him. Still not moving he
turned his head to watch her being moved, then when she was clear he
turned to face the girls. They all waited until Emily recovered,
although still groggy she was helped on and they walked home. Creeda
doesn't seem to know that a learner bouncing around and yelling is
about to fall off, but he seemed to know something was different that
day. It hasn't happened again, but I don't worry as much when she goes
riding. You certainly couldn't take a horse shopping, but it has
allowed Emily to continue riding as she loves it. Hope you enjoyed this
story as much as we do in telling it and would be interested to hear if
others have experienced a similar thing.  Jan and Emily {the same Jan
and Emily from the recent post "living alone} Thanking you for past
comments and help
Julie - 01 Aug 2005 05:34 GMT
Hi Jan and Emily, it sounds to me like the horses were protecting Emily and
knew she needed their help.  That is amazing.  By the way does Emily wear a
helmet when she rides?  I ask this because I know that some children with E
wear a helmet.  The Epilepsy Foundation has what they call "winning kids",
honoring those that have learned to live with epilepsy and have overcome
difficulties.  I remember when I posted the pictures of one of those
winning kids, he enjoyed riding horses.

http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/cody-lumley.htm

Take care,
Julie Walton, Volunteer Webmaster
Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org

> I have always found the idea of a dog helping people with epilepsy
> interesting,and I wonder if other animals are also able predict a
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
> and Emily from the recent post "living alone} Thanking you for past
> comments and help
Mary Fisher - 01 Aug 2005 12:00 GMT
> Hi Jan and Emily, it sounds to me like the horses were protecting Emily
> and
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> difficulties.  I remember when I posted the pictures of one of those
> winning kids, he enjoyed riding horses.

In UK all riders have to wear a helm, I think by law. I've never seen one
without. We also had to wear them when we rode in Iceland.

Most cyclists seem to now too, we do, our children and grandchildren do.
Donning them is second nature.

All motorcyclists, by law, have to wear an approved helm (not just anything)
and all car drivers have to wearbelts - and children must also be restrained
in cars.

It makes sense, whether you're epileptic or not, I'm surprised at the
implication that all horse riders in US aren't protected - but not critical
:-)

Emily's story is moving, I thank the poster.

Mary
Wygtya - 02 Aug 2005 20:13 GMT
> The dogs can give their owners an accurate warning of between 20-45
> minutes.

Hmmm, very dubious claim.  How many of you even "sense" seizures before
you get slammed? Ok, so you -may- get an aura. Sometimes it's just an
aura, but what's the lead time between the aura & your GM?  <spit>
Certainly not 20-45 minutes.
G.Ross - 02 Aug 2005 20:50 GMT
>> The dogs can give their owners an accurate warning of between 20-45
>> minutes.
>
> Hmmm, very dubious claim.

G.-   Based on ??

 How many of you even "sense" seizures before
> you get slammed?

G.-  One of the Demos I saw about 1998, they suggested either personality
change or perspiration, ahead of an aura onset, might be where some of them
are picking up pre-seizrure sensations.  Whether I sense a seizure onset as
early as a trained szr. alert dog doesn't enter into it does it?   He can
find the chocolate chip cookies faster than I can too....  /

Ok, so you -may- get an aura. Sometimes it's just an
> aura, but what's the lead time between the aura & your GM?  <spit>
> Certainly not 20-45 minutes.

  That's based on what? exactly.   How much lead time is typical between
**bodily changes that precede onset of a full seizure (not just a GM) and
*the szr. onset?   With Complex Partials when I was first diagnosed,  I'd
get an aura anywhere from 10 minutes up to an hour or more before the full
CP Seizure set in.  And I didn't have a trained pup along.

 (I saw a demo of these about 1998 done by a school north of Toronto for a
local Ep. Convention.  They also train companion dogs which help people who
have had strokes or heart attacks.  But the Seizure Alert ones were part of
the film and demonstration I saw then.  They were mainly used for safety in
that they could lead a person away from danger, traffic or household dangers
if we had rapid onset type seizures. It was often the quicker ones that
could produce more potential danger if we were cooking, bathing, or
operating equipment that could be dangerous.  But if some of them can start
more slowly, but still go to a full collapse,  the sooner they could be
detected the sooner a person could find somewhere safe to sit down or get
help.  )   /G.

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