Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / August 2005
Dogs predict seizures
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Julie - 28 Jul 2005 22:54 GMT I thought the group would find this article about dogs of interest from New Scientist. My husband found the article and said to me "I guess you already knew this". My dog always stays real close to me when I'm not feeling well. But that could just be her herding instinct.
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6047
Take care, Julie, Volunteer Webmaster Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho http://www.epilepsyidaho.org
G.Ross - 28 Jul 2005 23:14 GMT >I thought the group would find this article about dogs of interest from > New Scientist. My husband found the article and said to me "I guess you [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho > http://www.epilepsyidaho.org Very strange. That's a fairly recent article from Alberta and says that "previously Seizure alert dogs had only been anecdotal, etc." I saw a talk at the Annual Convention of Toronto Ep. Associaton about 1995-7, where an Animal School, north of Toronto, was training Seizure Alert Dogs, and also ones that would react when a Senior Citizen had a fainting spell or Heart condition and could butt an Alarm button that would call for help-- either at a Senior's home, or from an Emergency Service. The Alert Dog was a major help for people who had formerly been unable to go out shopping or away from home without another person with them. The Dogs allowed them to dispel the fear of having a seizure while away, and the dog would guide them to safety and stay with them, if they started to have an onset or had a full seizure. (The ones here, have a 'Seizure Alert' logo on the red vest they wear, identifying them as Alert Dogs and who to contact if the person were to collapse while out.) G./ (The Scientist site also has some kind of Popup, that my Popup killer discarded as I opened the link, for anyone who might react to screen movements unrelated to our site.) //
Mary Fisher - 29 Jul 2005 09:27 GMT >>I thought the group would find this article about dogs of interest from >> New Scientist. My husband found the article and said to me "I guess you [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Alert' logo on the red vest they wear, identifying them as Alert Dogs and > who to contact if the person were to collapse while out.) G./ Such dogs are trained and used in UK too. It's certainly not a new system - although it's probably being improved all the time.
Mary
G.Ross - 29 Jul 2005 15:29 GMT > "G.Ross" >>
>> "Julie" <efiwebusa@netscape.net> wrote in message >>>I thought the group would find this article about dogs of interest from [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > system - although it's probably being improved all the time. > Mary That's true. At the time I saw the talk they didn't know why the breeds that worked were able to predict or react to a seizure onset. Although one idea suggested we start to perspire with some szr. onsets, the person demonstrating how they work (at the talk I saw), were just using their body gestures, and waving hands as she started to simulate a collapse, that some types of seizure onsets apparently display to get the dog to react. (Since I've never seen one of my own, I only know what the early ones looked like from Witness Statements I got later.) And the vests here were new, so that people could take them out shopping or to stores, similar to Seeing Eye Dogs. I don't know if many other locations accept those vests as a standard identifier yet or not. G./
Dave ©¿©¬ - 29 Jul 2005 18:32 GMT > > "G.Ross" >> > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > or to stores, similar to Seeing Eye Dogs. I don't know if many other > locations accept those vests as a standard identifier yet or not. G./ Howdy!
Any dog worth his/her salt should have been able to detect that the demonstration was a phony seizure and should not have responded -- right?
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Dave ©¿© "Ego sum quis ego sum quod ut est quicumque ego sum"
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G.Ross - 29 Jul 2005 19:10 GMT > Howdy! > Any dog worth his/her salt should have been able to detect that the > demonstration was a phony seizure and should not have responded -- right? Ah !! But maybe he was just showing off to impress us at the Demo....since he knew he wouldn't get any Kibble if he didn't perform. And if they didn't have some way to Simulate a seizure, how would they train pups (mostly terriers and collies?) what a seizure looked like? Another one (same school) I saw on a TV show here (we did some posts about at the time), would wait a period of time, and if the person who collapsed didn't return to consciousness, it would run over and 'butt' a wall button (about 3 inches/ 7cm in diameter, above the baseboards) with his nose. That would summon the staff at this particular Seniors Home who would come to check on the status of the person. As well as seizure alert, some of these were used for Panic Attacks, and people with Heart or other conditions that might lead to their losing consciousness. /G. >
G.Ross - 29 Jul 2005 19:24 GMT >> That's true. At the time I saw the talk they didn't know why the breeds >> that worked were able to predict or react to a seizure onset. Although [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Any dog worth his/her salt should have been able to detect that the > demonstration was a phony seizure and should not have responded -- right? But if you couldn't fake at seizure, how would you go about training a seizure alert dog exactly? If you had to take them to places where people with Epilepsy Live in order to have them see a real one from a fake one that would likely take extra time and make them more costly than they are already. The intention (I think) of the training was to get the dog to help if someone appeared to be having a health crisis- not to determine if they were faking it or not. /G.
Sofia - 30 Jul 2005 23:16 GMT > But if you couldn't fake at seizure, how would you go about training a > seizure alert dog exactly? If you had to take them to places where people [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > someone appeared to be having a health crisis- not to determine if they > were faking it or not. /G. I shouldn't think it's too hard, you see, I didn't even have to train my little black dog, Harry, after I bought him from the R.S.P.C.A.
As I tend to have around 10-15 absences and up to 5 complex partials per day, he began to pick up the signs of when I was about to have one, and alert hubby. I also tend to have about 2-3 grand mal seizures per month, which meant Harry also used to detect when I was about to have one of those, go and tell hubby in his own kind of way, who in turn used to quickly run to catch me before I fell onto something dangerous.
We had Harry for nearly 15 years, but unfortunately he died just before Halloween last year, yet I still can't bear to throw away any of his belongings.
Sofie
G.Ross - 31 Jul 2005 00:35 GMT >> The intention (I think) of the training was to get the dog to help if >> someone appeared to be having a health crisis- not to determine if they [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > belongings. > Sofie Sounds like it might be time for a trip back to the Pound? They're sometimes hard to replace, but I expect they provide as much companionship and psychological support sometimes, as the seizure recognition skills. And it already sounds like you or your family had the skills to train Harry, you probably could train another one. I think the breed the Toronto Company was training were Border Collies and Terriers, but a film they showed us, I think the dog was a Labrador. Probably several of the breeds may be sensitive to the reactions of their owner. G./
Sofia - 20 Aug 2005 22:31 GMT > I think the breed the Toronto Company was training were Border Collies > and Terriers, but a film they showed us, I think the dog was a Labrador. > Probably several of the breeds may be sensitive to the reactions of their > owner. G./ Harry was a little black Labrador/mongrel. I think therefore that you seem to have gotten the sensitivity of certain breeds absolutely spot on, as the Labrador seems to be one of the most intelligent.
I suppose that's why they're a favourite to be trained as guide dogs for the blind!
Sofie
G.Ross - 26 Aug 2005 17:46 GMT "Sofia" <> wrote in message ...
>> I think the breed the Toronto Company was training were Border >> Collies [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the blind! > Sofie I had one briefly (pre-diagnosis) that we were caring for, for some friends, for 6 months or so. They seemed more Mellow than some breeds, so are probably more suited to guiding, care of humans, patience if someone had a seizure, etc. G./
Mary Fisher - 29 Jul 2005 20:31 GMT From the websiteof the UK seizure alert from dogs site.
For some people their dog can be so much more than just a pet. Man's best friend can be literally life saving, providing assistance in a variety of situations. Guide dogs for the blind are probably the best known assistance dogs. Many readers may also have heard of hearing dogs for deaf people or may know about PAT dogs, which are taken into hospitals and hospices to visit patients. Have you also heard of support dogs?
Support Dogs is a charity established in 1992 by dog trainer Val Strong. The charity has pioneered the training of seizure alert dogs - the charity's main focus today. It is the only organisation in the world that undertakes training for this purpose.
The philosophy behind Support Dogs is 'to improve the quality of life for people with epilepsy, physical disabilities and other medical conditions by training and educating dogs to act as safe and efficient assistants'.
Funded entirely by donations and sponsorship, and with no cost to the client, the cost of training and aftercare is around £5,000 for each dog.
Seizure alert dogs are trained to detect the signs of an imminent seizure and to warn their owners, giving them enough time to get to a place of safety. The dogs can give their owners an accurate warning of between 20-45 minutes. The type and length of warning each dog can give remains consistent so that the person knows exactly how long they have before the seizure happens.
The way in which the dogs warn their owner varies from one dog to another. The warning may be a bark or whine, or the dog may jump up or paw the owner. Dogs that are in seizure alert training must not have seen a seizure previously, so Support Dogs will not train the owner's pet dog. Instead, dogs are selected from rescue centres. Each dog is carefully selected to ensure they are of the appropriate temperament and are 'people orientated'. They need to be confident and sociable as well as being able to undertake the work of a support dog.
Most breeds can be trained, given the right temperament. Support Dogs has identified traits in some dogs that make them more suitable for this type of work; these dogs are more responsive to seizure activity.
Each dog is trained with its new owner so that they can learn to identify the owner's specific seizure activity. It is not clear how the dogs can identify when a seizure is about to occur, but it is thought they may be picking up on unique signs of seizures: physiological or behavioural changes that the people themselves and those around them are not aware of. This could include pupils dilating or changes in facial expressions or colour.
The first step for each dog on its road to becoming a seizure alert dog is to live with a foster carer for around three to six months. During this time the foster carer helps to socialise the dog and teaches them obedience training and social skills.
Once this socialisation is complete each dog is trained for at least another 170 hours, including using their obedience skills in a variety of settings outside of the home. During this time the dog wears a red training jacket.
While being trained at the Support Dogs training centre, each dog is placed with a prospective owner. The dog and its new owner are then trained together at the centre's residential facility, to teach the dog 'to assist and support owners with their specific disability'. Training then continues at the client's home.
The last stage of the training is the final assessment. After passing this assessment they are given full 'assistance dog' status. Now they are qualified to wear the distinctive yellow jacket that gives them instant recognition as an assistance dog. This will have the words Support Dog on it.
But the support does not end there. Trainers from Support Dogs will visit the client and their dog on a regular basis to see how the partnership is getting along and to ensure that everything is working.
So far Support Dogs have trained over 125 dogs of which around 25 are seizure alert dogs.
Support Dogs also train dogs to provide assistance to their owners in other ways.
Medical assistance dogs are trained to meet the needs of people with medical conditions such as hypoglycaemia (diabetes), agoraphobia and Meniere's disease. The dogs can help by bringing the person their medication or by getting help or pressing an alarm if the person becomes ill.
Disability assistance dogs are often the client's own pet dogs who are trained to help their owner with everyday activities. From the beginning of the training the dog and client work together to teach the dogs tasks such as opening and closing doors, switching lights on and off, loading and unloading the washing machine, picking up, fetching and carrying objects. They can also be trained to help their owner to dress and provide stability to people when walking.
No matter which discipline they are trained in, all assistance dogs have the authorisation of the Department of Health and Environment for access to all areas including shops, on public transport and areas serving food such as cafes and restaurants.
Support Dogs are a member of Assistance Dogs UK, which also include Guide Dogs for the Blind and Hearing Dogs for Deaf People.
jan - 01 Aug 2005 02:24 GMT I have always found the idea of a dog helping people with epilepsy interesting,and I wonder if other animals are also able predict a seizure. I would like to share this story with you which will make you also wonder if they can. My sister owns and operates a horse riding camp, where children stay a week at a time during the school holidays. I am the cook and have been for 15 years. My children had to come with me so they just became extra riding camp kids and mixed in and also learnt to ride. My youngest daughter developed epilepsy at 13, so she was no longer able to ride with the camp kids.{you know insurance issues, us being aware of a potentual fall etc.etc}. But she would still ride in the uninsured times with her friends. Emily has seizures most days and has all types of seizures. She has had Two seizures while on different horses that have made us think that they know of it. The first was while in an enclosed yard and just walking. The horse she was riding doesn't like his rear being touched and would move away to avoid it. My sister wasn't keen on her riding it ,but Emily had insisted, as its in an enclosed yard. The group were walking in a circle and my sister noticed Emily just sitting on the horse in a vacancy. She sent two teenagers over to her. They helped her get off the horse, but she wouldn't move away. She was leaning on this horses rear and getting anoyed with the helpers and pushing them away. The horse doesn"t kick just usually moves to the side, but it stood still with Emily leaning and moving on his rear. Eventually Emily could be moved. The second time was while on a trail ride with ten other children aged between 14 and 18. Emily was 16. The riding camp is held on a 3,000 acre farm, fully fenced into different paddocks with all sandy soil and no traffic. The group take a mobile phone ,so I feel she is as safe as she can be on a horse. The riding camp horses just go to the group if the rider falls, so even if Emily was dragged its only for a short time. Emily had to take Creeda, considered the safest horse in the camp.The friends keep a watch on Emily of course. This day the group were cantering along when Creeda dropped back to a trot, Then as he was coming into a walk Emily went into a major seizure. She fell just as he was stopping. She was now under the horse, very vocal and kicking the horses legs. But Creeda was not moving. The girls were turning around by now and got to Creeda. Even though he is safe to fall from they were worried incase he just lifted his leg when she kicked him, that he would step on her. The girls couldn't move him away, so they dragged Emily still in the seizure out from under him. Still not moving he turned his head to watch her being moved, then when she was clear he turned to face the girls. They all waited until Emily recovered, although still groggy she was helped on and they walked home. Creeda doesn't seem to know that a learner bouncing around and yelling is about to fall off, but he seemed to know something was different that day. It hasn't happened again, but I don't worry as much when she goes riding. You certainly couldn't take a horse shopping, but it has allowed Emily to continue riding as she loves it. Hope you enjoyed this story as much as we do in telling it and would be interested to hear if others have experienced a similar thing. Jan and Emily {the same Jan and Emily from the recent post "living alone} Thanking you for past comments and help
Julie - 01 Aug 2005 05:34 GMT Hi Jan and Emily, it sounds to me like the horses were protecting Emily and knew she needed their help. That is amazing. By the way does Emily wear a helmet when she rides? I ask this because I know that some children with E wear a helmet. The Epilepsy Foundation has what they call "winning kids", honoring those that have learned to live with epilepsy and have overcome difficulties. I remember when I posted the pictures of one of those winning kids, he enjoyed riding horses.
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/cody-lumley.htm
Take care, Julie Walton, Volunteer Webmaster Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho http://www.epilepsyidaho.org
> I have always found the idea of a dog helping people with epilepsy > interesting,and I wonder if other animals are also able predict a [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > and Emily from the recent post "living alone} Thanking you for past > comments and help Mary Fisher - 01 Aug 2005 12:00 GMT > Hi Jan and Emily, it sounds to me like the horses were protecting Emily > and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > difficulties. I remember when I posted the pictures of one of those > winning kids, he enjoyed riding horses. In UK all riders have to wear a helm, I think by law. I've never seen one without. We also had to wear them when we rode in Iceland.
Most cyclists seem to now too, we do, our children and grandchildren do. Donning them is second nature.
All motorcyclists, by law, have to wear an approved helm (not just anything) and all car drivers have to wearbelts - and children must also be restrained in cars.
It makes sense, whether you're epileptic or not, I'm surprised at the implication that all horse riders in US aren't protected - but not critical
:-) Emily's story is moving, I thank the poster.
Mary
Wygtya - 02 Aug 2005 20:13 GMT > The dogs can give their owners an accurate warning of between 20-45 > minutes. Hmmm, very dubious claim. How many of you even "sense" seizures before you get slammed? Ok, so you -may- get an aura. Sometimes it's just an aura, but what's the lead time between the aura & your GM? <spit> Certainly not 20-45 minutes.
G.Ross - 02 Aug 2005 20:50 GMT >> The dogs can give their owners an accurate warning of between 20-45 >> minutes. > > Hmmm, very dubious claim. G.- Based on ??
How many of you even "sense" seizures before
> you get slammed? G.- One of the Demos I saw about 1998, they suggested either personality change or perspiration, ahead of an aura onset, might be where some of them are picking up pre-seizrure sensations. Whether I sense a seizure onset as early as a trained szr. alert dog doesn't enter into it does it? He can find the chocolate chip cookies faster than I can too.... /
Ok, so you -may- get an aura. Sometimes it's just an
> aura, but what's the lead time between the aura & your GM? <spit> > Certainly not 20-45 minutes. That's based on what? exactly. How much lead time is typical between **bodily changes that precede onset of a full seizure (not just a GM) and *the szr. onset? With Complex Partials when I was first diagnosed, I'd get an aura anywhere from 10 minutes up to an hour or more before the full CP Seizure set in. And I didn't have a trained pup along.
(I saw a demo of these about 1998 done by a school north of Toronto for a local Ep. Convention. They also train companion dogs which help people who have had strokes or heart attacks. But the Seizure Alert ones were part of the film and demonstration I saw then. They were mainly used for safety in that they could lead a person away from danger, traffic or household dangers if we had rapid onset type seizures. It was often the quicker ones that could produce more potential danger if we were cooking, bathing, or operating equipment that could be dangerous. But if some of them can start more slowly, but still go to a full collapse, the sooner they could be detected the sooner a person could find somewhere safe to sit down or get help. ) /G.
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