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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / July 2006

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Infant Seizures

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Becca - 11 Jul 2005 05:31 GMT
Does anyone know about seizures in babys? We have a 5 week old baby who
seems to be having some type of seizures, she has had an eeg wich we
will not know the results of until the end of this week. We are very
concerned. They started the day after she was born, her right foot and
right fist stared twitching at the same time...now her eyes get really
big and her both opens and her whole body jerks. Any comments or advice
would be a help....thank you.
                                            Becca
Beck - 11 Jul 2005 09:15 GMT
This is probably of no help but I thought I would mention it. When I was a
baby (a little older than yours though) I fitted for over an hour and when
my mother got me to the hospital and they finally settled it down, I started
again. It was apparently an allergic reaction to the measles/mumps
injection. Has your baby had any sort of medication or immunisation
injections recently? Don't take my word as gospel, but just another idea to
keep.
Beck.
> Does anyone know about seizures in babys? We have a 5 week old baby who
> seems to be having some type of seizures, she has had an eeg wich we
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> would be a help....thank you.
>                                             Becca
Becca - 12 Jul 2005 04:56 GMT
thanks for the reply, no she has not had any shots or meds at all. i am
breastfeeding and wonder if i am giving her something she might be
allergic to. it would be nice if that was all it was....guess we will
find out
                                         becc
CyberCafe - 12 Jul 2005 14:49 GMT
> thanks for the reply, no she has not had any shots or meds at all. i am
> breastfeeding and wonder if i am giving her something she might be
> allergic to. it would be nice if that was all it was....guess we will
> find out
>                                           becc

That's a possibility, but I don't think it (allergic reaction) would
have started so soon after birth.  You said the next day, right? When I
transcribed pediatric GI, there were some babies who were allergic to a
particular protein(s) in a mom's milk.  Sometimes, the solution was for
the mom to eliminate the most likely offending foods from her diet.
Sometimes that kind of diet was pretty restrictive on the mom.

Little babies have a poorly developed neurologic system, which can
causing jerking movements.

Sometimes babies will do that with bowel movements.  They might do that
in response to some kind of discomfort such as an overfilled tummy,
reflux (GERD), and so on.  How often does your baby spit up?

Barb
Becca - 13 Jul 2005 04:55 GMT
she spits up quite a bit. more thanmy first one did. these seizures she
has are so wierd, and she always crys after them like it hurts he or
something. her eyes glaze over and her breathing is weird. it does seem
like she spits up alot after them. i just want to help her so much
G.Ross - 13 Jul 2005 05:17 GMT
> she spits up quite a bit. more thanmy first one did. these seizures she
> has are so wierd, and she always crys after them like it hurts he or
> something. her eyes glaze over and her breathing is weird. it does seem
> like she spits up alot after them. i just want to help her so much

 I put up some addresses a few days ago that included some 'first aid for
seizures' sites. I don't know how much they'd help, but if she's 'bringing
up'  some of her stomach contents,  then acids might be irritating her
throat, so she'd get upset from that and the taste.
  The change in her eye 'glaze'  and changed breathing might be the middle
of the seizure.  Did the Dr. ever give you a name for the 'type of seizures'
she was having.
  (I'll go look up the first aid site and repost it in a minute.)  G./
G.Ross - 13 Jul 2005 05:24 GMT
> she spits up quite a bit. more thanmy first one did. these seizures she
> has are so wierd, and she always crys after them like it hurts he or
> something. her eyes glaze over and her breathing is weird. it does seem
> like she spits up alot after them. i just want to help her so much

 These are the sites.   I picked up them all.  Look at the one titled
'First Aid for Seizures' if you don't know the seizure type, and see which
description might describe most closely what happens.  Since she can't talk
yet?  she can't tell you which 'sensations'  she might be feeling, so unless
the Dr. gave you the name,  you'd have to go by the descriptions of  'what
we do'.   IF anything has been prescribed,  the http://efa.org  Ep.
Foundation site has a medications glossary, that often lists what a
particular pill might be prescribed for.
   This is the older post -->

I'm going to paste below a note I put up each ~3 weeks so we're about due. I
might have already posted this for you, or not.  It describes some websites
put up by people who post 'around here'  but who've assembled a bunch of
useful information for us.   I think this doesn't list Howdy Dave's, but he
has some recent posts on the group, and his website addr. is at end of his
posts.

  Check the 'symptoms or sensations'  entry under the First Aid for
seizures Chart (below).  Also if you're 'losing awareness or finding strange
writing' *you did,  those *could be from a Petit Mal or Absence seizure,
described there too.
   Others around you who witness any, may be able to tell you what you do
while 'away' in a seizure, and whether you stay conscious or collapse.

 I'm a Little concerned that *you have to describe your symptoms to your
Doctor, although *I did that too....   Are you seeing a Neurologist?
because if you are, *they should know most of these feelings or behaviours
as markers of a particular seizure type, and that's used to determine which
pills Will or Won't work for that type of seizure.
  The efa.org site has a Medications glossary where you can enter the name
of any medications you're prescribed and it'll give you a one page Printable
format you can compare with what you got from a Pharmacy with new
prescriptions.   Some pills have things to avoid while taking them.
  Under the main 'First Aid for seizures'  site,  some feelings/ auras we
might get as part of each seizure is listed, that will help tell if they're
among the common symptoms people often get.
  (The Deja Vu feeling, and sour or lemon taste / aroma I used to
experience, or that would trigger a dizzy feeling for me, were 'Classic'
auras for a Right Temporal Lobe seizure (now grouped under Complex
Partials), and my Dr. already knew which types I had from the EEGs and MRIs
they had already run when I was first in Hospital.  )
  This is the earlier post (parag.1 was written TO someone *else than
you) -->

Some weblinks you might not have seen a few days ago, that have useful
information about seizures.  You can likely find your seizure type there
(sounds like Complex Partial like mine?), and it shows that we're not aware
of what we say or do while 'away'.  If it would help any of them you could
print the page, so they'd see how 'easy' it is to make your return more
comfortable and quick, compared to getting into a panic about what to do.

   The main First Aid site I use (Julie put together for us, and Idaho)
is -->
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/seizure.htm  .
(Check the description of 'what we do' for each type.  That's why I thought
your's would be either Complex Partial (Temporal Lobe) or Grand Mal from
description.)

    If in water (swimming etc.) at seizure onset, there's some differences
what to do, that are described at  http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/seizure2.htm
.

    Learning about Epilepsy for people newly diagnosed or helping others
understand. http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/learn.htm  , and the General
doorway that eventually links to all above but may have other stuff for
people near to Idaho is at http://www.epilepsyidaho.org   .

  Those have lots of useful stuff about taking the 'edge' off learning to
handle seizures for people newly diagnosed and people around us -- family
and co-workers, etc.
  If any Medications are prescribed, the U.S. Ep. Foundation has a large
database of info. but also a Medications Glossary within  http://efa.org
site.       G./
CyberCafe - 13 Jul 2005 19:33 GMT
> she spits up quite a bit. more thanmy first one did. these seizures she
> has are so wierd, and she always crys after them like it hurts he or
> something. her eyes glaze over and her breathing is weird. it does seem
> like she spits up alot after them. i just want to help her so much

Definitely mention the spitting up to your baby doctor.  Spitting up is
reflux, and being breastfed doesn't have anything to do with this.
Spitting up could be painful because the acids from the stomach can
irritate the esophagus (which can result in inflammation or ulceration
in severe cases) and possibly the throat.  Although feeding the baby so
the baby is in an upright position and maintaining that upright position
for up to half an hour following feeding is one of the common
suggestions I've seen from doctors, that might not be enough for some
babies.

Barb
Becca - 14 Jul 2005 06:40 GMT
The baby...(her name is Jillian) had a seizure tonight...pretty severe.
I did notice that she burped in the middle of it and then she had some
spit up in her mouth afterwards..and then she cried like I have never
heard her cry...it broke my heart. maybe the crying IS because of the
reflux...but I still wonder what is causing the seizures in the first
place. We STILL have not heard the results of the eeg...a month after we
first took her in. I am on the "war path" tomorrow...someone has got to
tell us what is going on, we just can't be put off any longer. I do
appreciate all of the input, it has been so helpful, please keep posting
any ideas or experiences....I do appreciate it...
                                    Becca
CyberCafe - 14 Jul 2005 20:01 GMT
> The baby...(her name is Jillian) had a seizure tonight...pretty severe.
> I did notice that she burped in the middle of it and then she had some
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> any ideas or experiences....I do appreciate it...
>                                      Becca

Let us know what they tell you.  Yeah, it does take time for the results
to return.  At our medical facility, a specialist reads those tests and
not the neurologist.

The EEG might end up being negative because a person has to be having
the abnormal brain waves at the time the EEG is done (or electrodes can
come loose and so on).  That can be tricky trying to capture those
abnormal brain waves.  A lot of folks here have had repeat EEGs, so if
they want another EEG for Jillian, that is part for the course.

Barb
Becca - 14 Jul 2005 20:17 GMT
Thank you for your input...We go today at 3;30 to see her doctor. I had
a feeling that the eeg would need to be done while she was having a
seizure, and she wast having any when it was done.....She has them so
inconsistantly and sometimes they are several hours apart....i wish they
would just let us go in hook her up for the test and sit there as long
as it takes to get an accurate reading. Anyway....keep us in your
prayers today...I will let you know. Thanks
                                Becca
Becca - 16 Jul 2005 20:44 GMT
Well, we spent night before last in the hospital, our doctor admiited
Jilli so he could have tests and blood work done. they did another eeg
and got the results immediately...it was normal, but she did not have a
seizure while it was being done. she is having an mri on tusday morning.
the put her on phenobarbitrol....i am wanting to find out all the info i
can on this drug...please let me know what any of you know about
it...especially any long term or short term side effects. thank you...
                               Becca
G.Ross - 17 Jul 2005 02:52 GMT
> Well, we spent night before last in the hospital, our doctor admiited
> Jilli so he could have tests and blood work done. they did another eeg
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> it...especially any long term or short term side effects. thank you...
>                                Becca

 I haven't used it.  Until someone comes along who has experience with it,
here's one website.

(While I think of it, when the Dr. gives you the prescription (next
Tuesday?)  ask if they have a Printout or Website wrt. phenobarbitol (*Note
spelling), *or ask the Pharmacy where you fill it for a printout. Normally
my Pharmacy gives me a printout with each *new prescription, explaining how
it's Used, what to avoid (usually stopping promptly or missing doses without
help from the Dr.),  and there may be Special Instructions wrt.  Children
based on her Age.   *Make sure the Pharmacy puts her Age on their records
too.)

  I went to http://efa.org   (Ep. Foundation of America) site, click Tools?
and Bookmark or Favorites, and then that site will be available under
Favorites on your computer without needing to type it each time. One of the
entries is Medications (click it), then Children and Medications. You can
scroll to Pheno from there and click it.   It didn't say anything of special
interest wrt. children, so info. from the Dr.or Pharmacy, based on her age,
would help (since there might be something regarding her Age that isn't on
the General EFA site above).
.
   Each of the sites there, now has a 'printer friendly'  button at bottom
of the page, if you want to Print a copy of anything.   Use the Back Arrow
at top? to move back then to index.
   (I looked down 'Children and medications', 'side effects', and 'history
of antiepileptic medications'  but didn't see anything specific to Children
or younger med. users.   That's why I hoped the Dr. or Pharmacy. would have
something for you.   Depending on their age, sometimes they have a Liquid
form of a med. that might be mixable with apple sauce, or milk? or juice. If
the tablets are solid, they could tell you *if the tabs could be crushed and
put into food or juice-  some *can't.   My pharmacy was a good source for
most questions I had with my pills etc. as an adult, so if your Dr. doesn't
give you Lots of info.  the pharmacy can be reached by phone or in person
easier sometimes to ask about how it's going for you.)
   Several of the medications have different Symptoms if there are
Allergies or reactions to particular meds.   If she's too young to be able
to tell you about some of those, it's handier to have a list of whether to
watch for a rash, reactions in mouth, etc. to look for. (Since she's already
got that 'reflux' and other reactions, I'd like them to have something *for
you, so we could tell if a reaction was from the New Med.  or still from the
cause she has that's producing the Seizures and Reflux, or whatever she's
having that 'we're trying to treat'.

 So far as I know Pheno is one of the Oldest, so most studied medications,
and for *most people might have the Least potential side effects compared to
some of the stuff us 'olde people'  are using.  If she had been e.g. a
Teenager, they might have tried Dilantin or something, but that's too strong
for someone so young (I think), and what you have they're trying to control
the problem but not interfere with e.g. growing bones, and body organs that
us 'olde people'  don't have to worry about, since we're all olde and mature
etc. with respect to body and organ development.
   Let us know how things progress.   We all care about this.

  The MRI you might be able to find on the efa site too, and they'd likely
let you be nearby while they do that one?   It's a 3D X-ray that shows any
potential problems (inside) down to 100ths of an inch in size.  Extremely
accurate, and it doesn't depend on whether someone was having a szr. during
the test or not.   That one is also relatively easier and quicker than an
EEG -- unless they think they need to 'sedate her',  there are *no needles
or anything gross.  She lies on a table, that's rolled into a large cylinder
about 4 feet in diameter, there's a crackling sound?  and it's done.   (I
don't know how they tell someone really young to lie still for a few
seconds, but that's all I had to do.  Mine was long ago -1993- I hope that
was the MRI test, since I had a bunch over about 4 weeks with mine.)
    I hope that one comes back clear too.      G./
CyberCafe - 17 Jul 2005 23:17 GMT
> Well, we spent night before last in the hospital, our doctor admiited
> Jilli so he could have tests and blood work done. they did another eeg
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> it...especially any long term or short term side effects. thank you...
>                                 Becca

Some information from one of my drug books that I use for work.
Synonyms:  phenobarbitone; phenylethylmalonylurea (boy, I hope those are
spelled correctly)
U.S./Canadian Brand Names:  Barbilixir (Canada); Barbita, Liminal, Solfoton
Thereapeutic Category:  Anticonvulsant; Barbiturate
Controlled Substance:  C-IV
Use:  Management of generalized tonic-clonic (grand mal) and partial
seizures, neonatal seizures, febrile seizures in children; sedation: etc.

It then goes on to give the doses for children for sedation and hypnotic
purposes, and for preoperative sedation.  Then in another section it
gives the doses for status epilepticus and for regular daily maintenance.

It says the medication comes in a variety of forms including capsules,
elixir (liquid), injection, powder for injection, tablet.

This is a link that gives the approved and off-label uses of that drug:

http://www.aesnet.org/Visitors/PatientsPractice/aed/aedtable.cfm?drug=Phenobarbital

There is a lot of information through the google search engine.  Don't
limit your search to phenobarbital but also look up barbiturate, which
gives even more important information.

Are they giving Jilli the phenobarbital to prepare/sedate her for the
MRI, or is it something they are going to give her for a long time?

Barb
Becca - 18 Jul 2005 00:32 GMT
They started Jilli on the pheno on thursday night. they gave it to her
through her iv. the dr. gave us a prescription for it and she has to
take 2.5 ml two times per day. I do not know how long she will be on it,
we have a doctors appt. in the morning and i will find out more details.
she has had no seizures since thursday night...and she seems to be doing
really well on the medication, she seems to be alert and happy. i will
continue my research on the Pheno, i do not want her to have any long
term side effects from it. thank you for all the info.
                                 Becca
CyberCafe - 18 Jul 2005 17:51 GMT
> They started Jilli on the pheno on thursday night. they gave it to her
> through her iv. the dr. gave us a prescription for it and she has to
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> term side effects from it. thank you for all the info.
>                                   Becca

Becca, thanks for keeping us informed.  Actually, your contribution is
important for other parents with babies.

Everybody worries about the immediate side effects and long-term
ramifications of taking epilepsy medications, even us adults.

Barb
jackadan1 - 29 Jul 2006 00:37 GMT
dont really know where to start? I am having the same problem. My son will be
7 months on the 5th and he started having seizures at about 4 months. At
first I thought it was due to the heat. It just seemed that everytime he has
one it's hot and we are out and about running errands. They too put my son on
the same medication. I dont really have any answers for you or myself my son
is scheduled for an e.e.g on the 8th so hopefully more will be revealed. I
can totally relate to the feeling that you are feeling. I am frustrated with
the no answers. Since my son has been on the medication I will tell you I
believe it's working last night I believe he was going to have a seizure
however the medication prevented a stronger one, but b/c I did notice
something wrong they increased his dose. My son tugs towards the left when he
has them and it seemed that his whole left side was stiff. they did inform me
that he has to not have a seizure for 1 year before they will consider taking
him off of the medication. Please if you get any enlightment please share
whatever I can do for my son I will do.

jenn

>> They started Jilli on the pheno on thursday night. they gave it to her
>> through her iv. the dr. gave us a prescription for it and she has to
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Barb

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