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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / May 2005Complex Partial Seizures
Hello all, Just a question. If anyone would be able to answer this it would be much appreciated. My Neurologist says the episodes I have are like Petit Mals but after reading this http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/seizure_complexpartial.html I wonder if this is what I am experiencing. I can relate more to the Complex Partial thing than the Petit Mals. So my question is, What is the difference between the 2? Thanks and sorry to be asking dumb questions. Beck. > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks and sorry to be asking dumb questions. > Beck. I have had simple partial seizures, which progressed over time to complex partial seizures (temporal lobe), okay, so I'm familiar with those but not personally with the petit mals (but have observed other people having petit mals). Actually, I went to the link you included, read that, and then found the information on petit mals and read that, and I can see why a person would be confused as they seem to resemble each other. First of all though, the page on the site you linked to is missing a whole bunch of symptoms that could be part of the partial seizures. The description they have of partial seizures contains things I've never experienced either. Of course, we're all different. If I just stick to the descriptions shown for the two types of seizures, it looks like the length of the seizure is completely different (much shorter with absence seizures), the awareness and/or consciousness factor seems to be different, the recovery time is different. To me, those are probably the clearest differences. Your questions are not dumb at all. Keep asking them. Barb >> Hello all, >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Barb Thanks for the reply. I got that message on the length of them too. I have had 1 that lasted a couple of minutes and a few that have been like very very short, maybe not even 20 seconds. This is the main reason I asked. I see my neurologist near the end of July and have a few questions for him, but I thought I'd ask here first. Thanks again, Beck. Beck, Let us know how it went and let us know whether you have further questions. There are thousands of people reading through this newsgroup and maybe one of them responds to your question because he knows "exactly" what you are talking about. Remember that even if you label epilepsy, then the symptoms can still be different or overlap with other types of epilepsy which can still be confusing. When your doctor prescribes you medication, then side effects like dizzyness, and some others will not help you to correctly label an epileptic seizure and the side effects of the medication. Sometimes I still get dizzy when I walk -even after a year of a seizure free period and that happens when I do not sleep very well. Is that a seizure, is that side effects. In the beginning, I was just diagnosed, these dizzyness episodes scared the thell out of me. Now, I know it is side effects of the medication I take but still I need to catch my sleep, live a regular live, avoid stress and alcohol, etc.  SignatureThanks. Marco The Netherlands I wish I could say its possibly a side effect but these feelings were the reason I was put on medication to start with. Thanks though, I will still keep it in mind. It really helps having people that have been through or are going through this, answer questions about it. Thank you Satch, Beck. > Beck, > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > to > catch my sleep, live a regular live, avoid stress and alcohol, etc. > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks and sorry to be asking dumb questions. > Beck. Don't worry about the questions. None of them are dumb here. Website above doesn't include, under Complex Partials, that some (many?) can end in loss of Consciousness if uncontrolled, as the seizure might generalize (spread) like waves across other parts of the brain. They also don't go much into what happens as it takes hold or generalizes. When mine weren't controlled, I likened them to 'Entering the Twilight Zone' since once I was inside there, I no longer knew what I was doing or did -- I had to depend on Witnesses to tell me whether I threw a security guard across the Mall when he tried to restrain me, that my language was more colourful than 'usual' ... and finally I often would 'flap my eyelids' before collapsing on the spot. Several times I'd wake up in Hospital or an Ambulance with no knowledge how I got there-- mostly since witnesses thought I might have had a heart attack or other condition and wanted to do the best thing they could. (Above were witness accounts (told to me), and nothing I was aware of once the 'dizzy swirling feeling' progressed, and I had entered 'the zone'... ) The stronger seizures (if you look at efa site or the first aid chart), the person who's moved beyond Simple Partial or Aura phase, no longer is aware what they are doing? That might be a place where you could tell if your's are S.P or stronger ones. Are you **aware while your's are happening of what you're doing? I'm not even sure what the difference is between a 'Petit Mal' (above) and Simple Partial. I had thought they were similar, but a S.P. is sometimes just called the Aura that can happen at start or during a seizure, and might *end there. If it generalizes or progresses to a stronger seizure some other symptoms can show up -- false sense of deja vu, jamais vu, aromas or tastes that aren't there -- lemon, sour or eggy, acrid if they involve one of the Temporal Lobes. (Difference between SP and PM above, might be described under http://efa.org site or even First Aid for Seizures chart, I mentioned to someone last night, on Julie's Idaho website. As I got near to Full control of Complex Partials, I only had *Auras and sour taste or lemon aroma, with feeling of Deja Vu, but then it didn't progress any longer to a full C.P. seizure. Now I don't even get the auras described there. Medicines have controlled them since 1999. ) /G. > Don't worry about the questions. None of them are dumb here. I wanted to say that. > I'm not even sure what the difference is between a 'Petit Mal' (above) > and Simple Partial. I had thought they were similar, but a S.P. is > sometimes just called the Aura that can happen at start or during a > seizure, and might *end there. We've had lots of discussions here on the names given to different episodes. I seemto remember that the consensus is usually: a) the names are given by people who don't have the episodes (in other words what do they know!) b) there's a continuum of symptoms, some definitions are just a matter of degree and you simply can't always put one episode in a particular 'class'. This doesn't really help you but it's fun for us. Yes, there IS some fun in epilepsy :-) Mary >> Don't worry about the questions. None of them are dumb here. > > I wanted to say that. ** Must be the Timezone advantage? ... :-> >> I'm not even sure what the difference is between a 'Petit Mal' (above) >> and Simple Partial. I had thought they were similar, but a S.P. is [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > in epilepsy :-) > Mary The main places where I try to help someone find the 'name' for a Seizure Type, is if they're doing e.g. a Google Search, or want Specific Information to their case, it's often useful to have the 'Doctor's name' or what it's called in the Literature. So if their's were more like our's (complex partials), the First Aid, Medicines, or Treatments might be quite different than *if it were 'only' a Simple Partial or Milder form of our's. (And I was on the way out, or I would have taken the 10 minutes to search out what the difference was between a Simple Partial ( = "aura'? ) and a Petit Mal (little sickness) type. ) That's why I usually point them to Julie's First Aid for Seizures chart, as it lists some of the common feelings, behaviours, and treatments to aid a seizure 'return', and it's all organized nicely on the one page for reference. (I know there's a Medical difference wrt. some of the seizure types, but when someone's newly diagnosed or come here, they don't often *care a whole lot 'what it's called', but want help and support with their new 'sibling', and getting them to behave .... ) G./ > (I know there's a Medical difference wrt. some of the seizure > types, but when someone's newly diagnosed or come here, they don't often > *care a whole lot 'what it's called', but want help and support with their > > new 'sibling', and getting them to behave .... ) G./ I guess everyone is different. When I was diagnosed with primary generalized epilepsy due to the only tonic clonic seizure I had last year, I had thousands of different questions with regards to seizure type, prevention, what it is called, etc. I always say: Knowledge is power so asking questions is good, real good. SignatureThanks. Marco The Netherlands I haven't been given any labels at all, I just get told that I have mild epilepsy and that's where it stops. I would love to know what I have wrong with me and why but doctors get frustrated when I ask lol. Beck. >> Don't worry about the questions. None of them are dumb here. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Mary > I haven't been given any labels at all, I just get told that I have mild > epilepsy and that's where it stops. > I would love to know what I have wrong with me and why but doctors get > frustrated when I ask lol. > Beck. Dude, I know exactly what you mean. I wanted to know the ins and outs as well because it is my body, my head and so it is my live. Doctors get paid to do the diagnose, so if they diagnose us with some kind of epilepsy, then they have to tell us exactly what that diagnose means and how we can label it so that we can understand it ourselves and explain it to others (like partners / friends / colleagues, etc.). I also wanted to know what kind of epilepsy I had, what type of seizures I could expect, what kind of medication I needed to take, what these medication will do with me in regards to long term, my liver, my behavior, and yes, doctors do not like that because a) they do not understand what epilepsy "really" means in a persons social live; b) they do not have these "episodes" themselves and c) they will have to treat another patient who walks in after 10 or 15 minutes after your appointment. So, it is absolutely a good idea to get into this newsgroups, define your epilepsy, read about it on the Internet and then get back to your doctor when you are scheduled for your next appointment and ask him or her these kind of questions. SignatureThanks. Marco The Netherlands I totally understand wanting to know what to tell friends/family etc. I have other doctors asking me if I am epileptic or not and I say "Well sort of..." Its just annoying. Its also a shame that the doctors haven't physically been through this themselves, they would have a better understanding of what we want/need. Thanks again, Beck. >> I haven't been given any labels at all, I just get told that I have mild >> epilepsy and that's where it stops. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > when you are scheduled for your next appointment and ask him or her these > kind of questions. >> Hello all, >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > since witnesses thought I might have had a heart attack or other condition > and wanted to do the best thing they could. Wow... I haven't had anything that bad. I know that I was sitting with a person at work and he was talking to me but not getting a response. He tried to get my attention, I am not sure if he made any physical contact but he was cleaning the table in front of him at the time and I took the sponge that was near both of us and started to chew on it. This thing was filthy too. I don't remember this at all, I just know that when I came back from wherever I was, my mum was holding my hand. I didn't know she was anywhere near the building until then. People still make fun of me for this. I actually swallowed 2 pieces of the sponge too. It was very embarrassing. > (Above were witness accounts (told to me), and nothing I was aware of > once the 'dizzy swirling feeling' progressed, and I had entered 'the > zone'... ) Its funny, I get that dizzy swirling feeling and it has been diagnosed as Schizophrenia because while feeling that I also feel really intense fear and paranoia. I now wonder if it is anything to do with that or if its the Epilepsy. > The stronger seizures (if you look at efa site or the first aid chart), > the person who's moved beyond Simple Partial or Aura phase, no longer is > aware what they are doing? That might be a place where you could tell if > your's are S.P or stronger ones. Are you **aware while your's are > happening of what you're doing? The sponge incident is the only really bad episode I have had. I know I got this fear/dizzy thing once and felt I was going away (like your 'zone' description) and I screamed out for my mother. That was the last thing I remembered and then mum was standing beside me. She said I was "chewing" on nothing and pulling at my clothes as if I wanted to rip them off. I have only had that and the other episode. The rest have been like a couple of seconds and then I am ok. > I'm not even sure what the difference is between a 'Petit Mal' (above) > and Simple Partial. I had thought they were similar, but a S.P. is [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > a full C.P. seizure. Now I don't even get the auras described there. > Medicines have controlled them since 1999. ) /G. I have had the deja vu and tastes/smells that aren't there, but not at the same time as the episodes. My medicine seems to have stopped my problems too, but I just don't know which I have, epilepsy or schizophrenia... or both? Anyway, I've rambled enough for now lol, thanks for the reply. Beck. > Wow... I haven't had anything that bad. I know that I was sitting with a > person at work and he was talking to me but not getting a response. He [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > and paranoia. I now wonder if it is anything to do with that or if its the > Epilepsy. G.- I don't know if there's an EEG or MRI? difference that the Dr. could use between Schizophrenia (multiple personalities?) and Epilepsy. It sounded like some of your's might be grouped more under Absence seizures (I forget which category that goes under? possibly Simple Partial too)-- where you described being Conscious but unaware where you were. That's where the Sponge thing could have arisen, while you were temporarily unaware of what you were doing. I *thought that Complex Patial (mine) and Grand Mal *all ended in Collapse or Loss of Consciousness at the end. As I got closer to control with the Pills I use, I just had the Dizzy feelings, and 'drifting away' feeling, then came back to where I was without losing touch. (That's why I thought some of mine there were Absences at that point, since I'd only drift off until someone or something on the radio brought be back.) **THOSE can still be a Problem as you'd expect if you were Driving, or doing something that required attention that didn't have an Auto Off Switch if we went on to a stronger seizure./ >> The stronger seizures (if you look at efa site or the first aid chart), >> the person who's moved beyond Simple Partial or Aura phase, no longer is [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > enough for now lol, thanks for the reply. > Beck. (The Deja Vu and tastes/smells are part of the Aura (warning) that a stronger seizure might be about to start. *Or you can have the Deja Vu (simple partial) and have it Pass without going to a Stronger seizure. *I was able to get mine to clear by having a Cool glass of Water or Sprite/7 Up to clear the *Sour lemon taste I had with mine but like you describe above... Once I cleared that False Taste, it seemed to put a lid on the progression of the seizure too, so it didn't get worse from there. Sometimes the Aura (taste or feeling of Deja above) could happen and move to stronger stuff without us noticing the shift. As pills etc. get closer to full control, we might stop at the Deja stage or sour taste, and finally if we get 100% control, those parts of the aura don't even start up either. / ) "G.Ross" <gaross@rogers.com> wrote in message >> Its funny, I get that dizzy swirling feeling and it has been diagnosed as >> Schizophrenia because while feeling that I also feel really intense fear [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > doing something that required attention that didn't have an Auto Off > Switch if we went on to a stronger seizure./ I am fairly sure they cant do any tests to determine what I have. I have had a lot of tests already and no one seems to know much. I know that Schizophrenia and Multiple Personalities (MPD/DID) are very different too. Its really hard to diagnose both though. It would be so good if they were able to do an EEG and say "This is what you have..." >> *** If you look under the symptoms of that First Aid Chart I put up >> before, one of the seizure types describes 'automatic movements' or [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> consciousness -- just 'the Lights are on, but there's no one home' for >> the 1-2 minutes... / I am lucky to have not had these senses play up much since being on my medications. I hope it stays this way too. Its funny how I never in my wildest dreams thought Epilepsy or Schizophrenia would be a part of my life the way it is. Sorry, just in a "woe is me" mood. Thanks for your reply, Beck. > (The Deja Vu and tastes/smells are part of the Aura (warning) that a > stronger seizure might be about to start. *Or you can have the Deja Vu [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > finally if we get 100% control, those parts of the aura don't even start > up either.) |
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