Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / July 2009

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

best time for a diabetic to get an afternoon snack is?

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
tseverson - 28 Jul 2009 00:33 GMT
My 96-year old mother is a type 2 diabetic and is taking NPH insulin
two times per day. She now takes 24 units in the morning around 7:30
am and 9 units in the afternoon around 5 pm.
She lives in an adult foster care facility (a family home) where a
total of 5 elderly individuals reside under 24 hour supervision. Mom
has been using NPH since starting insulin injections about 30 years
ago. I have discussed switching Mom to a different type of insulin but
my brother thinks it is best to leave things as they are considering
Mom’s age.

Her current testing routine is to take a blood glucose test around
7:30 am (followed by 24 units of NPH) and eat breakfast before 8 am.
She gets a snack around 10 am (I think) and eats lunch around 11:30 to
11:45 am.

Mom has a second blood test about 3:45 to 4 pm and has a snack (which
is adjusted if she has a high or low blood test reading). She then
starts dinner about 4:45 to 5 pm.

I thought 4 hours was a long time from lunch (11:30 to 11:45 am) until
she takes her afternoon blood test (3:45 to 4 pm) and gets her
afternoon snack. The manager (a licensed nurse) of the facility told
me it takes four hours (information from the Mayo Clinic) to get a
true fasting blood glucose test. I also mentioned the fact that a 4
hour wait for a snack followed by a 1 hour wait until dinner did not
place the snack midway between lunch and dinner. The manager agreed
but felt waiting four hours before testing was the best option to
follow.

Any comments about moving the second blood test (followed by a snack)
to 3 pm so the snack is closer to midway between lunch and dinner?

Talking to a worker at the home today, I was informed that if Mom’s
blood test was too high (let’s say above 240), Mom would just skip her
afternoon snack and eat again at dinner time.

It seems I had read that a diabetic should not skip snacks but it was
OK to cut back on the carbs in a snack (e.g. perhaps half a snack
serving) if the reading was too high. I would appreciate your thoughts
on skipping snacks.

Thanks for you help.
Charly Coughran - 29 Jul 2009 21:23 GMT
tseverson <terryseverson@comcast.net> wrote in news:1b0a1216-76ec-4973-
ac0d-797dc5652c57@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:

> My 96-year old mother is a type 2 diabetic and is taking NPH insulin
> two times per day. She now takes 24 units in the morning around 7:30
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> Thanks for you help.

There is a great deal of inter patient variability when it comes to the
absorption of insulin so it is impossible to give specific answers to
questions like these.  There is no way that anyone on this side of the
internet can know enough about your mother's condition and her specific
reactions to various stimuli to tell you at what specific times she
should, or should not, eat her snack.  Not to mention that those specific
answers depend not only on her insulin regimen and meal schedule, but on
the exact contents of her previous meal and how much more or less
activity she had relative to her normal activity level.

The disclaimer having been disclaimed, it is possible to give you some
advice on how to go about getting some of the information that will help
you determine if any adjustments need to be made.  Note that it will
require a good deal of work on your part, both reading to understand how
diabetes works and keeping track of your mother's bg levels at different
times and under different conditions.

Insulin regimens of one or two shots of NPH/day were standard when your
mother was diagnosed.  They are still fairly common, especially at the
initial start of insulin treatment or in the elderly.  The rationale is
that the regimen is very simple for the patient.  After an initial period
of experimentation, the shots are always the same and the insulin
delivery matches, to the first order, the demand produced by a rigid meal
regimen both in timing and carbohydrate content.  While this is in at
least one sense simple, it is not a particularly optimal treatment
program for most insulin requiring diabetics if the goal is to minimize
blood glucose excursions.

On the far other end of insulin regimen spectrum is the insulin pump, an
order $5000 programmable syringe which allows tremendous patient
controlled variability in insulin delivery.  This requires that the
patient to understand his/her own particular circadian rhythms in
background metabolic insulin requirements, estimate the insulin demand
required by individual meals, and predict the effect of exercise and
activity variability on each and test bg levels frequently during the
day.  (The standard minimum testing necessary is quoted as 4 bg tests/day
but the average is 7 tests/day and 19% test 10 or more times/day.)  This
treatment is by no means simple but can be very effective in control of
blood glucose levels.

Between these 2 extremes there are a bewildering number of insulin
regimen choices which, in a general sense, are all trade offs between
simplicity and freedom.

Rather than discuss the idea of modifying her insulin regimen with your
brother, you should both discuss it with her doctor and then, if
appropriate, with her.

The timing of bg testing is based on what you are trying to test for and
what you are going to do with the information the test revels.  While the  
manager was technically wrong (8-12 hours is the normal fasting period
for diagnostic work) 4 hours will get you mostly past the effects of most
meals.  So it sounds like the manager is skewing things to try to have a
quasi-fasting test.  Although you can't say much based on a single value
without any understanding of average results at similar times as well as
the values of previous tests, if it were my mother, a 240 mg/dl post
prandial or quasi-fasting test would require more intervention than
simply skipping a snack.  At the very least it would involve a day or
more of multiple glucose tests to determine her typical daily glucose
pattern.

Signature

-------
Charly Coughran
ccoughran@DELETE-TO-RESPOND-UCSD.EDU

Alan S - 29 Jul 2009 22:23 GMT
>Rather than discuss the idea of modifying her insulin regimen with your
>brother, you should both discuss it with her doctor and then, if
>appropriate, with her.

Thank you for dropping in Charly; it's great to see you here again.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
d&e, metformin 2000 mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com (Lancet Change - St Swithun's Day)
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (Jerash, an Ancient City in Jordan)
Charly Coughran - 29 Jul 2009 23:20 GMT
>>Rather than discuss the idea of modifying her insulin regimen with
>>your brother, you should both discuss it with her doctor and then,
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com (Lancet Change - St Swithun's Day)
> http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (Jerash, an Ancient City in Jordan)

Actually I'm around most times.  The volume of actual questions has
dropped off over the last few years to the point that it has gotten rare
to see a question to which I think my response would be useful.

Signature

-------
Charly Coughran
ccoughran@DELETE-TO-RESPOND-UCSD.EDU

Alan S - 30 Jul 2009 02:18 GMT
>>>Rather than discuss the idea of modifying her insulin regimen with
>>>your brother, you should both discuss it with her doctor and then,
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>dropped off over the last few years to the point that it has gotten rare
>to see a question to which I think my response would be useful.

Nice to know you're there.

If I ever get over your way again, I'd love to meet.

For the new people who have not heard of Charly, browse through this
occasionally: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/diabetes/faq/

You will regularly notice this appear: "This section is written by
Charles Coughran".

Actually, it's worth wandering through there anyway:-)

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
d&e, metformin 2000 mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com (Lancet Change - St Swithun's Day)
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (Jerash, an Ancient City in Jordan)
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.