Not too quickly, or you will simply put it back on again.

How good is *quite good*. Exact numbers will be more helpful.

How low do you go? Unfortunately, or fortunately, whichever, I got an
accountant's mind, only numbers are of real interest to me.

Chcocolate has  lots of fat, so it won`t help with weight loss, and the fat
slows down the sugar so you think *I need more* and a vicious circle ensues.
A better way, imho, is to avoid the hypos (if they are really hypos) is to
reduce the pre-gym Actrapid.

One of the reasons I keep asking for numbers, is because you don't have a
very good insulin regime, so your doc is possibly out of date. Second
reason, no-one has bothered to teach you about diet. Third reason, you have
been taught wrongly about losing weight quickly. Fourth reason, you were
given wrong advice on how to treat hypos.

Bearing in mind those 4 reasons, you may well have been taught out of date
ideas concerning bg levels.

See above, and pleased to see you here. Welcome!
--
Al.
Idiopathic t1
Last HbA1c 5.95 Total Chol 2.7
Current Blood Pressure 118/74 Resting Pulse Rate 71
Beef Lente 1x Beef Neutral 2x

PS I assume you are type 1. Is that correct?

I'm in the throes of "getting more exercise" - T2 in need of exercise
for dieting and to keep the BG's in line.

Personally I've found that having a brisk walk of at least half an
hour every day has been sufficient to cut away 1.5 stone's in the last
3 months or so.  Additionally cutting out snacks such as crisps <G>.

Also invested in a home gym (Total Gym XLI) and found it to be a
useful tool and a lot cheaper than joining an actual gym.  Means I can
exercise at my own convenience.
http://www.tvwarehouse.co.uk/store/Health_x38_Fitness1966.htm

Of course the thing to watch out for when getting into a "keep fit"
regime is that somewhere along the line, fat changes to muscle, so you
don't loose that weight in the transfer.

Anyway, just thought I would pass on my own experience ;-)

Cheers

Steve E.

Whitley Bay, North East England
Tyneside & Northumberland Local History Group at:
http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/tyneside
For photographs of the Newcastle Upon Tyne area go to:
http://www.steve-ellwood.org.uk
http://www.geordies.force9.co.uk
"Geordie goes beyond mere geography and is a quality of heart"

In addition to Steve and Al's posts:
Your gym routine is building muscle, which is why the weight loss is not
happening although your body fat level is probably dropping.  The weights
and the rowing are working on your upper body and that's where it is easiest
to add muscle, replacing fat weight.

I suspect you were advised this routine by an initial instructor or personal
trainer, yes?  Unfortunately, they seem to have the same problem with
dieticians of "one size fits all" and this translates to not only losing
weight but also building muscle tone.

You might also consider switching out the choc for glucose tablets (I forget
the brand names, but check in boots and they might have a selection, rather
than just the one).  Choc is not just an instant BG hit.  Because of the fat
it will raise your BG for quite a while afterwards.

As a personal routine, I keep things fairly light at the moment in order to
not lose too much too quickly.  The guidelines are for 1 - 1.5 kg (2-3 lbs)
a week.  This prevents your body from getting defensive and hanging onto
more fat since it thinks it is being starved.  Stick to the guidelines for
speed of weight loss and you will be able to keep the weight loss going for
longer.

All that I do at the moment is fast walking on the treadmill with a decent
gradient only for about half an hour- no upper body work at all and so no
development.  One of the reasons for this is circulation in that it is your
legs and feet that are most at risk.  I will probably have to bring my upper
body into it later on as the weight gets harder to lose.

I'd suggest that you leave alone anything that might be building muscle too
much for the moment, then once you have got your weight down, change the
routine, exchanging fat for muscle.

You might even find that just going on the stepper and then going home might
have more effect on the weight loss.  More is not necessarily better -
especially if you are taking on more calories in order to do it.

This is just how it appears to me of course and if you do find something
that works for you, go for it.  There are no right and wrong answers, just
what works for you.

Good luck and welcome.
--------------------
VBH (T2)
Dx (17-Oct-03) : A1c 10.2 : 102Kg
Latest                 : A1c: 7.7 : 92Kg : Met 3x500
---------------------

I was diagnosed as a t2 a month and a half ago, so I can't offer much
advice on diabetes, but I've lost 3 stone over the last two years, so I
know a bit about dieting.  The basic rule is, eat a little less, do a
little more, and keep it up until you get to the weight you want.  Here
are some more specific thoughts:

Keep a food diary for a few weeks, so you know what you're actually
eating.  Read labels for nutrition information - awful lot of "hidden"
fats, carbs, and salt that you may be taking in without realising it.
Once you know what you're eating, you can figure out how to adjust it to
bring weight down.  If you look at your bg levels against the diary, you
may find things that particularly help or harm, and can adjust your diet
accordingly.

Aim generally to increase the amount of fruit and veg you eat, and
decrease the amount of meats and starches.  

Choose more poultry and fish, less meat, particularly red meat.  Cook
poultry without the skin. Choose leaner cuts of meat, and trim most of
the fat off.  Grill more often than fry.

Steam vegetables, and don't overcook - they retain more flavour and keep
more of their nutritional value than when boiled.

Have some carrot sticks or similar as an appetizer, or a couple of
low-fat crackers or a stalk of celery with some low-fat cream cheese.  

Take smaller servings, chew thoroughly, and eat slowly.  It takes 20
minutes for the brain to recognise that something has gone into the
stomach, and so stop sending out hunger signals.  Leave a bit of time
before you decide whether you want more.  If you do want second
helpings, try to make them mostly veg rather than meat and
potatoes/rice/pasta.

Look for recipes for "fancier" veggie dishes that are still low-fat,
low-carb.  You can increase the amount of veg you're eating while
feeling like you're spoiling yourself a bit.  Ditto for pudding recipes.

Look for reduced-fat versions of things you particularly like:
Philadelphia brand does reduced-fat cream cheeses, some with chives or
garlic or herbs; Walkers and Golden Wonder do reduced-fat crisps.

Get a slow-cooker and make stews and casseroles: chop up meat or poultry
and assorted veg into bite-size pieces, add some herbs and liquid [can
be stock, wine, water], put it all into the slow-cooker pot, turn it on,
ignore for 8 to 12 hours.  Dish up with a side salad and some low-fat
crackers or some plain croutons.  You get maximum nutrition and flavour
for minimum effort, even the toughest cuts of meat come out fork-tender,
and there are no additional fats such as you would use in frying or
braising.  Plenty of specific recipes can be found on the web, often
with detailed nutrition information.  

Make sure you're drinking enough water, so all that good food is
processed properly.  

Don't force yourself to eat things you really dislike, however good they
may be for you: you'll just feel resentful and dissatisfied.

Aim at losing between 1 and 3 lbs a week *on average*, and forgive
yourself those weeks that you don't lose anything, or even gain a bit.  

Accept that it's going to take a while.

Hope this is useful.  Welcome to the ng.

Maggie

To avoid the hypos, have you tried using an energy drink whilst in the gym
instead of just water? I use SIS's GO which is better than water for
re-hydrating you and contains some carbs (not too much though - they also have
something called PSP22 if you need more carbs). The main advantage of these is
they have no fat so will be better than chocolate.

Just to add my 2p worth in I have the opposite view re your training regime than
VBH, building some degree of muscle is good because the more muscle you have the
more calories your body burns at rest, therefore you'll lose more fat (not
weight though, muscle is loads heavier than fat so you may get heavier in the
short term, the mirror is the best guage you have as to whether your training
prgramme is working).

Try the energy drinks and see how you get on.

Good luck :-)

Dave

10:27:50 Sun, 4 Jan 2004alt.support.diabetes.uk

Well, consider asking your doctor if you can take less insulin before
going to the gym. After all, if the exercise is going to use up the
glucose, what do you need the insulin for? Just keep measuring your BG
levels so you know what is happening.

My method of losing weight, slowly mind you, was to eat fewer sugary and
starchy foods (potato, pasta, rice, bread, cereals) - indeed I cut them
out almost completely, partially replacing them with vegetables and
salad for bulk, resulting in my eating fewer calories and not upsetting
my BG levels so much (since the starchy and sugary foods are what your
body can't handle properly).

There are two main theories of what sorts of foods to eat to lose
weight: low-fat, and low-carbohydrate. I prefer the latter theory as
carbohydrates mess up my BG levels so clearly they are not helpful. Low
fat theories are, in my opinion, obsolete - although people do lose
weight on those diets too, since cutting calories by one method or
another is always going to result in weight loss eventually, if you can
stick to it. But as a diabetic, your problem is BG levels, so why
challenge your body all the time by eating more carbs than it can
handle?

The problem with low fat theories is that they were predicated on the
assumption that what you eat ends up in your bloodstream, and this has
subsequently been found to have been too simplistic: lipids in the
bloodstream (fats) are generated by the body in response to the
carbohydrates you eat and *not* in response to the fats you eat!
However, this is an oversimplification too: saturated and hydrogenated
(or trans) fats in the diet do appear to be modestly problematic, mono-
and poly-unsaturated fats appear to be pretty much wholly beneficial.
Another problem with the low fat theories is that if you restrict fats,
your body is likely (it seems to me) to try and conserve its fat stores,
preferring to try and burn the abundant carbohydrates instead - even
though, as a diabetic, you can't do that properly. High BG levels,
lethargy and continuing hunger are the inevitable results, in my
personal experience.

The above is my opinion, and others will differ. I favour a diet system
such as Atkins, and I would certainly recommend his book (Dr Atkins' New
Diet Revolution) to you: maybe, like me, you won't actually go on his
diet, as the early stages in particular are rather drastic, but it
contains very good explanations of the diabetic metabolism that, I
believe, will help you to make good choices that will suit you. I have
certainly found that stuffing myself with plenty of red and white meat,
fish, fat, salads, nuts and veggies has allowed me to lose weight
without difficulty and with barely missing some of those old
carbohydrate-rich BG upsetters at all, after a while.