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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / August 2008

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Tesco scupper diabetic diets

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Patti - 23 Jul 2008 20:16 GMT
Thought this might be of interest:-

http://www.tescodiets.com/index.cfm?currpage=contact&subsection=contact&code=350144
their suggested "diabetic diet" is so appalling that many members of
diabetes-support.org.uk have written to their dietitian protesting.
"Catherine" has written back extremely smugly defending their diet.  I
wonder how many of you would be interested in pricking Catherine's
smug little balloon????
Patti
Hba1c 5.5
On Levemir and Novorapid + meds for BP and thyroid
Join us at http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk "The friendly forum!"
Andy Hall - 23 Jul 2008 20:39 GMT
> Thought this might be of interest:-
>
> http://www.tescodiets.com/index.cfm?currpage=contact&subsection=contact&code=350144
their

> suggested "diabetic diet" is so appalling that many members of
> diabetes-support.org.uk have written to their dietitian protesting.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> On Levemir and Novorapid + meds for BP and thyroid
> Join us at http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk "The friendly forum!"

What did you have in mind?

I have to admit that orange juice and porridge is not my idea of a
suitable breakfast.
John Williamson - 23 Jul 2008 21:43 GMT
>> Thought this might be of interest:-
>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> What did you have in mind?

I sent this:-

Start quote.

Your Diabetic diet plan has been brought to my attention by a fellow
user of a diabetic support group on the internet.

On checking this plan as sampled on this website, it would be totally
unsuitable for me as a type 2 diabetic on oral medication.

60 Grams or more of fast acting carbohydrate at breakfast would cause a
massive hyperglycaemic problem for myself as well as most other type 2
diabetics.

Bananas and Weetabix both contain fast acting carbohydrates, leading to
a a damaging blood glucose level spike, followed by a reactive hypo for
a large number of diabetics.

Risotto also contains very fast acting carbohydrates in the rice, which,
again, for most diabetics would cause a problem with massive peaks in
blood glucose levels.

Pitta bread is high in refined starch, which again would cause problems.

I would very strongly suggest that the published diet be revised to
include slower acting carbohydrates such as those contained in oats,
(Say, Oatibix onstead of Weetabix) & wholemeal cereal products as well
as reducing the total amount of carbohydrates in accordance with
globally recognised guidelines.

For those injecting insulin, the problems are magnified, as the insulin
dose has to be increased to take account of the fast acting nature of
the carbohydrates you specify, which will probably lead to a
hypoglycaemic situation later on.

Your published day's diet on this website would cause me to be
permanently hyperglycaemic, with immediate & long term deleterious
effects on my health. For a diabetic injecting insulin, this type of
diet has been proven to cause a roller coaster ride of high & low
extremes in blood glucose levels, leading to poor control of the
disease, possibly resulting in blindness, kidney failure & the need to
amputate limbs. Such problems were a contributory cause of my brother's
death. He was a type 1 diabetic with poorly controlled blood glucose,
kidney failure, & diabetic retinopathy.

End quote.

Possibly a little over the top, though.

Signature

Tciao for Now!

John.

Andy Hall - 23 Jul 2008 22:56 GMT
>>> Thought this might be of interest:-
>>>
>>> http://www.tescodiets.com/index.cfm?currpage=contact&subsection=contact&code=350144
their

suggested

>>> "diabetic diet" is so appalling that many members of
>>> diabetes-support.org.uk have written to their dietitian protesting.
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
>
> Possibly a little over the top, though.

I don't think so at all.  Seems reasonable to me.
John - 23 Jul 2008 23:03 GMT
>>> Thought this might be of interest:-
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
>
>Possibly a little over the top, though.

I think the main problem here isn't one of diet but of corporate
thinking.  Most of us believe different things - it's a free country -
and sometime's we're right and sometimes we're wrong.  But we decide
for ourselves ultimately.

But - increasingly these days - there's a third kind of person
involved in our lives - the corporate person.  Bad enough that such
creatures write what they're paid to write and say what they're paid
to say - unfortunately it sounds as though 'Catherine' belongs to that
group of corporate animal that even thinks what they're paid to think.
Their mind and their opinions are bought and paid for.

Don't shout at 'Catherine' - rather feel sorry for the pitiable
creature...

John
John Williamson - 23 Jul 2008 23:38 GMT
>> I sent this:-
>>
>> Start quote.
>> <Snip quote for brevity>

>> End quote.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> and sometime's we're right and sometimes we're wrong.  But we decide
> for ourselves ultimately.

With guidance from all sources we consult. This is one such source that
may be expected to carry a lot of weight with a large sector of the
population.

> But - increasingly these days - there's a third kind of person
> involved in our lives - the corporate person.  Bad enough that such
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Don't shout at 'Catherine' - rather feel sorry for the pitiable
> creature...

I'd like to know where the information came from. As a source which a
lot of people will trust implicitly, there is a certain responsibility
to only use & quote best practice, which this isn't. As the
representative of her employers, she is, for want of a better term, in
the line of fire. Working in a service industry myself, I know how it
feels, but accept it as part of the job.

I've only just sent my comment, so I will see what the reply says. If
she just spouts corporate speak, then I'll know it's a lost cause.

I'll not be following the plan, anyway.

I'd also be wondering how reliable the other plans are, given what's
known about the shortcomings of the diabetic one for diabetics.

Signature

Tciao for Now!

John.

Nicky - 24 Jul 2008 12:53 GMT
>I'd also be wondering how reliable the other plans are, given what's
>known about the shortcomings of the diabetic one for diabetics.

I would put money on Tescos having run their diet plan past DUK, and
got the OK from them. Shooting DUK's dieticians en masse would
probably improve the breed no end.

Tescos' GI diet is OK - my sister's following it, and it's pretty well
down the Jennie Brand-Millar line. I'm also impressed with Tescos'
fitness guys - you've got to break past the front line people to 2nd
line support, but the back-office people were able to work out a good
routine to fit my sister's various needs.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4%  BMI 25
John Williamson - 24 Jul 2008 13:03 GMT
>> I'd also be wondering how reliable the other plans are, given what's
>> known about the shortcomings of the diabetic one for diabetics.
>
> I would put money on Tescos having run their diet plan past DUK, and
> got the OK from them. Shooting DUK's dieticians en masse would
> probably improve the breed no end.

That's more or less what I'd suspected, too.

> Tescos' GI diet is OK - my sister's following it, and it's pretty well
> down the Jennie Brand-Millar line. I'm also impressed with Tescos'
> fitness guys - you've got to break past the front line people to 2nd
> line support, but the back-office people were able to work out a good
> routine to fit my sister's various needs.

Fair enough. I'd not checked, as it's not a particular interest of mine.
I suppose I just extended the level of care shown in the diabetic diet
to the other diets.

Signature

Tciao for Now!

John.

Andy Hall - 24 Jul 2008 15:44 GMT
>> I'd also be wondering how reliable the other plans are, given what's
>> known about the shortcomings of the diabetic one for diabetics.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> line support, but the back-office people were able to work out a good
> routine to fit my sister's various needs.

Perhaps the GI one is more suitable for diabetics than the diabetic one.
Nicky - 24 Jul 2008 23:04 GMT
>Perhaps the GI one is more suitable for diabetics than the diabetic one.

Well, I've nicked some recipes - but they're still very into Basmahti
rice, and to make sure your pasta is al dente...

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4%  BMI 25
Andy Hall - 24 Jul 2008 23:26 GMT
>> Perhaps the GI one is more suitable for diabetics than the diabetic one.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> D&E, 100ug thyroxine
> Last A1c 5.4%  BMI 25

I find that Basmahti rice is worse than the others.

Solution with pasta has been to have a small amount rather than not at all.
David WE Roberts - 12 Aug 2008 21:27 GMT
>>> Perhaps the GI one is more suitable for diabetics than the diabetic one.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Solution with pasta has been to have a small amount rather than not at all.

My dietitians keep telling me that Basmahti rice is the lowest GI of all
rices.
Is this incorrect, or is low GI not the same as slow release and low blood
sugar?
Tiger_Lily - 13 Aug 2008 03:52 GMT
>>>> Perhaps the GI one is more suitable for diabetics than the diabetic one.
>>> Well, I've nicked some recipes - but they're still very into Basmahti
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Is this incorrect, or is low GI not the same as slow release and low blood
> sugar?

i will ONLY use Basmati rice

someone once explained the starch chain in detail, and why it's lower GI
than the other rices (wild rice excepted)

Signature

kate
type 1 since 1987
www.diabetic-chat.org
www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/newly%20diagnosed.html

Alan S - 13 Aug 2008 10:42 GMT
>> I find that Basmahti rice is worse than the others.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Is this incorrect, or is low GI not the same as slow release and low blood
>sugar?

GI is a rough guide for us as diabetics. GL is a better one.
Your own meter, measuring at your blood glucose peak after
you eat is the best one.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Blog http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com 
DLife column http://tinyurl.com/5v74xr
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (Food, Glorious Food)
Trinkwasser - 28 Jul 2008 18:46 GMT
>>I'd also be wondering how reliable the other plans are, given what's
>>known about the shortcomings of the diabetic one for diabetics.
>
>I would put money on Tescos having run their diet plan past DUK, and
>got the OK from them. Shooting DUK's dieticians en masse would
>probably improve the breed no end.

Yes, and yes.
Alan S - 24 Jul 2008 05:19 GMT
>Don't shout at 'Catherine' - rather feel sorry for the pitiable
>creature...
>
>John

Her surname is Gollum? "my precious carbs..."

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Blog http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com 
DLife column http://tinyurl.com/5v74xr
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (The Taj Mahal)
Alan S - 24 Jul 2008 05:16 GMT
>>> Thought this might be of interest:-
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
>
>Possibly a little over the top, though.

Over the top? I thought you were wonderfully understated and
reasonable.

I am debating whether to intrude from the far side of the
world. Something equally understated.

e.g "You have to be out of your mind!"

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Blog http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com 
DLife column http://tinyurl.com/5v74xr
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (The Taj Mahal)
Andy Hall - 24 Jul 2008 06:57 GMT
> Over the top? I thought you were wonderfully understated and
> reasonable.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.

Do you have Tescos in Oz, Alan?       They have penetrated much of
Europe (in the biblical sense of the word if you like)  so only a
matter of time.

The mass food industry remains geared up for "low fat", which is highly
convenient for them because they can substitute sugars for fats on the
basis of retaining flavour.

Some major manufacturers such as Heinz and a few others have dipped
their toes in the water of low carbohydrate prepared foods but have
found that the market is too small to warrant broad product ranges,
actively marketed.

Given that set of circumstances and muddled messages (at best) from the
government, it isn't surprising that Catherine is saying what she is
saying.    It is covered by government policy and sales of product.    
Nonetheless, telling them never does any harm.
Alan S - 24 Jul 2008 10:03 GMT
>> Over the top? I thought you were wonderfully understated and
>> reasonable.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>saying.    It is covered by government policy and sales of product.    
>Nonetheless, telling them never does any harm.

We don't have Tescos here, our equivalents would be Coles
and Woolworths. However, I've shopped in Tescos from Prague
to the UK, so I know what you mean.

Unfortunately I can't seem to access the page without
paying:-(

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Blog http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com 
DLife column http://tinyurl.com/5v74xr
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (The Taj Mahal)
John Williamson - 24 Jul 2008 10:28 GMT
>> Possibly a little over the top, though.
>
> Over the top? I thought you were wonderfully understated and
> reasonable.

So did I, sticking to the facts & all that.
I did get a reply this morning:-

<Quote>
Thanks for the email.  I appreciate all of your comments and I can
guarantee you that we will review all of our meal plans to ensure they
are in keeping with Diabetic recommendations-if any changes need to be
made they will be. I do sympathise with you about the loss of your
brother, it is tragic that poorly controlled diabetes contributed to his
death. However the diabetes plan that we offer is dietitian-approved but
we still require all people with diabetes to follow the plan, with their
own modifications, under medical supervision, this is mentioned on our
registration page.

I am aware that personal insults have been used about me on this board.
 I have taken the time to reply to anyone that has emailed me about
this issue but I will not be having any further communication with you
about this as I feel that there are some individuals who are more
interested in attacking myself than discussing what we can do to improve
our online programmes.
<End quote>

Gives me the impression she thinks I'm attacking her personally.....
After I've made a couple of suggestions to improve the bit they publish
as well.

<Chuckle>
I'd threaten to stop using Tesco, but they've not got a branch round
here I can stay out of.

> I am debating whether to intrude from the far side of the
> world. Something equally understated.
>
> e.g "You have to be out of your mind!"

That'd be about right. :-)

Signature

Tciao for Now!

John.

Robert Miles - 23 Jul 2008 22:56 GMT
> Thought this might be of interest:-
>
> http://www.tescodiets.com/index.cfm?currpage=contact&subsection=contact&code=350144

That web page didn't seem to offer me any way of even seeing their
"diabetic diet", possibly because I'm not in the UK, so I decided not
to respond using it.

> their suggested "diabetic diet" is so appalling that many members of
> diabetes-support.org.uk have written to their dietitian protesting.
> "Catherine" has written back extremely smugly defending their diet.  I
> wonder how many of you would be interested in pricking Catherine's
> smug little balloon????
> Patti

However, here are a few web sites on the benefits of type 2s using
a low-carb diet, so someone who has seen that "diabetic diet" may
want to include them in their response:

http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/

http://www.doaj.org/doaj?func=abstract&id=175137

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/pdf/1743-7075-5-14.pdf

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/pdf/1743-7075-5-9.pdf

http://www.dsolve.com/

http://www.nutritionj.com/content/3/1/9

http://diabeteshealth.com/read/2008/06/26/5802.html

http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/issue177/smallnumbers.shtml

<http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F04E2D61F3EF934A35754C0A9649C8B63>

<http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/weight-loss/low-carb-diet-trumps-low-fat-diet
-yet-again/
>

http://www.healthcentral.com/diabetes/c/17/34192/low-carb-weight-loss

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2008/07/direct-study-result-low-carb.html

And a few other sites that may be relevant:

http://www.healthcentral.com/diabetes/c/5068/25614/exercise-fat

http://diabetesmonitor.com/m57.htm

<http://www.dlife.com/dLife/do/ShowContent/inspiration_expert_advice/expert_colum
ns/trecroci_083107.html
>

<http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080514/diet_study_080514/2
0080514?hub=Health
>
Alan S - 24 Jul 2008 05:28 GMT
>Thought this might be of interest:-
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>On Levemir and Novorapid + meds for BP and thyroid
>Join us at http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk "The friendly forum!"

I can't seem to get in without paying.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Blog http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com 
DLife column http://tinyurl.com/5v74xr
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (The Taj Mahal)
Patti - 24 Jul 2008 19:27 GMT
Apologies all!  I copied the url from another post and it was the
wrong one.  The correct URL to see the actual diet is
http://www.tescodiets.com/index.cfm?currpage=dietplans&subsection=dietintro&diet
choice=9&code=350144


I worked out that the total carbs for the day were approx 194 - mostly
in the breakfast of Weetabix minis with skimmed milk, a pro-biotic
drink and a medium banana = 65g - and this at a time when most folks
have most insulin resistance.

Lunch of Pitta, cottage cheese, salad leaves and an apple totalled 49g
Suggested snack 15g
Risotto for dinner approx 39g

No one has, to my knowledge, attacked her personally, though there was
some outraged chit chat in a forum about the  patronising and
condescending manner of her replies + a jokey suggested response which
was not, to my knowledge, sent.  Nothing worse than anyone would say
here, but I guess she may have looked in on the thread.  She certainly
came across in later replies as very defensive.

It's shocking to me, as has already been pointed out, that such people
as Tesco can influence folks because "it must be right" - but then, if
DUK can spout that rubbish what can we expect.

FWIW in the copy of Reach that came last week from Accu-Chek it
actually mentions a "well controlled diabetic" who sticks to a low
carb diet... so perhaps the message is trickling through slowly
slowly..... just wish it was a bit quicker!
Patti
Hba1c 5.5
On Levemir and Novorapid + meds for BP and thyroid
Join us at http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk "The friendly forum!"
Andy Hall - 24 Jul 2008 20:15 GMT
> Apologies all!  I copied the url from another post and it was the
> wrong one.  The correct URL to see the actual diet is
> http://www.tescodiets.com/index.cfm?currpage=dietplans&subsection=dietintro&diet
choice=9&code=350144

I

> worked out that the total carbs for the day were approx 194 - mostly
> in the breakfast of Weetabix minis with skimmed milk, a pro-biotic
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> On Levemir and Novorapid + meds for BP and thyroid
> Join us at http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk "The friendly forum!"

.. and it's rather silly, because if the heavy carbohydrate load at
breakfast were taken down or out together with the risotto and other
fast acting stuff, most of the other ingredients aren't that bad.
Frederick Williams - 02 Aug 2008 15:29 GMT
> Thought this might be of interest:-
>
> http://www.tescodiets.com/index.cfm?currpage=contact&subsection=contact&code=350144
> their suggested "diabetic diet" is so appalling that many members of
> diabetes-support.org.uk have written to their dietitian protesting.
> "Catherine" has written back extremely smugly defending their diet.  

What did Catherine (or even "Catherine") say.  Why would anyone at all
interested in the health aspects of what they eat take the advise of a
food retailer anyway?

Signature

He is not here; but far away
 The noise of life begins again
 And ghastly thro' the drizzling rain
On the bald street breaks the blank day.

John Williamson - 02 Aug 2008 19:30 GMT
>> Thought this might be of interest:-
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> interested in the health aspects of what they eat take the advise of a
> food retailer anyway?

My e-mail to her & her reply are quoted elsewhere in the thread.

Signature

Tciao for Now!

John.

David WE Roberts - 17 Aug 2008 11:04 GMT
> Thought this might be of interest:-
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> On Levemir and Novorapid + meds for BP and thyroid
> Join us at http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk "The friendly forum!"

From reading through this thread and following the link it seems that
Tesco and "Catherine" are following current dietitian guidelines and the
advice from Diabetes UK.

This does not to me classify the diet as "appalling".

This seems a perfectly reasonable and responsible approach from a large
retailer.

Therefore "Catherine" and Tesco should not the target of this mini-hate
campaign.

By all means write to Tesco and explain that there is a trend in modern
diabetic thinking which is at odds with established theory as taught to
dietitians and propagated by Diabetes UK, and explain what the alternative
thinking is and why it should be considered.

Personal abuse is not the mature approach, and is unlikely to result in an
alternative view being considered seriously.

Frankly, it does make me wonder quite who is living inside a "smug
little balloon".

Cheers

Dave R
Alan S - 19 Aug 2008 10:46 GMT
>> Thought this might be of interest:-
>>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
>Dave R

Hello David.

You've been posting here since April, but I hadn't really
got to know you. So I went back and looked at some of your
posts.

This one stood out:

"My surgery, with a specialist diabetic nurse, tell me that
they have stopped giving out test kits to the newly
diagnosed because they weren't seeing any real benefit.

<snip>
I am feeling O.K. at the moment - no sign of the symptoms
which alerted me to having diabetes - but I sometimes wonder
if I am doing enough. It is hard to tell without symptoms or
a test kit."

Are you testing yet?

I ask because it is difficult to believe that any type 2
following the testing advice advocated here:
http://jennifer.flyingrat.net/
could possibly believe that Tesco diet is anything but
appalling.

The fact that Diebetes UK or the NHS or the ADA may approve
it does not make it less appalling, just more widespread and
more difficult to fight. Nor does it make it a perfectly
reasonable approach. It may be reasonable in a marketing
sense, but not in a health sense.

Incidentally, I signed up to have a look, didn't like the
details I had to provide and tried to unsubscribe - and gave
up trying; it was near impossible. I still keep getting
their emails.

All that aside, I hope you are testing now and using that
excellent advice from Jennifer. If not please consider it.

On smug little balloons, ignorance of post-prandial blood
glucose excursions is definitely not bliss for us.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Blog http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com 
DLife column http://tinyurl.com/5v74xr
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (Food, Glorious Food in India)
David WE Roberts - 22 Aug 2008 13:22 GMT
<snip> So I went back and looked at some of your
> posts.
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Are you testing yet?

Still not testing, but probably will be soon.

In support of my local surgery, they said that they didn't issue testers
and strips "as a matter of course" any more because they weren't seeing
real benefits.

However the diabetic nurse said that if i wanted to start testing at any
time she had some spare testers - they are forward looking and supportive
which appears not to be the case with all surgeries.

Therefore the decision not to test initially has been mine, and the
surgery will fully support me if and when I wish to start testing.

I stand by my point that Tesco seem to have taken what MOST would consider
to be the best professional advice around - and therefore the main issue
should be with those giving out the advice to Tesco, and that should be
reflected in any feedback.

Cheers

Dave R
Alan S - 22 Aug 2008 13:51 GMT
><snip> So I went back and looked at some of your
>> posts.
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
>Dave R

Dave, I won't argue further with you. It would be pointless.

I will ask you to make a note to yourself to re-read what
you just wrote in six months time.

In the meantime, I invite you to read a couple of blog posts
of mine. I hope they will influence your opinion.

http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2008/04/is-testing-worthwhile.html
and
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/10/test-review-adjust.html

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_s/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (On Indian Roads)
 
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