Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / August 2008
Tesco scupper diabetic diets
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Patti - 23 Jul 2008 20:16 GMT Thought this might be of interest:-
http://www.tescodiets.com/index.cfm?currpage=contact&subsection=contact&code=350144 their suggested "diabetic diet" is so appalling that many members of diabetes-support.org.uk have written to their dietitian protesting. "Catherine" has written back extremely smugly defending their diet. I wonder how many of you would be interested in pricking Catherine's smug little balloon???? Patti Hba1c 5.5 On Levemir and Novorapid + meds for BP and thyroid Join us at http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk "The friendly forum!"
Andy Hall - 23 Jul 2008 20:39 GMT > Thought this might be of interest:- > > http://www.tescodiets.com/index.cfm?currpage=contact&subsection=contact&code=350144 their
> suggested "diabetic diet" is so appalling that many members of > diabetes-support.org.uk have written to their dietitian protesting. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > On Levemir and Novorapid + meds for BP and thyroid > Join us at http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk "The friendly forum!" What did you have in mind?
I have to admit that orange juice and porridge is not my idea of a suitable breakfast.
John Williamson - 23 Jul 2008 21:43 GMT >> Thought this might be of interest:- >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > What did you have in mind? I sent this:-
Start quote.
Your Diabetic diet plan has been brought to my attention by a fellow user of a diabetic support group on the internet.
On checking this plan as sampled on this website, it would be totally unsuitable for me as a type 2 diabetic on oral medication.
60 Grams or more of fast acting carbohydrate at breakfast would cause a massive hyperglycaemic problem for myself as well as most other type 2 diabetics.
Bananas and Weetabix both contain fast acting carbohydrates, leading to a a damaging blood glucose level spike, followed by a reactive hypo for a large number of diabetics.
Risotto also contains very fast acting carbohydrates in the rice, which, again, for most diabetics would cause a problem with massive peaks in blood glucose levels.
Pitta bread is high in refined starch, which again would cause problems.
I would very strongly suggest that the published diet be revised to include slower acting carbohydrates such as those contained in oats, (Say, Oatibix onstead of Weetabix) & wholemeal cereal products as well as reducing the total amount of carbohydrates in accordance with globally recognised guidelines.
For those injecting insulin, the problems are magnified, as the insulin dose has to be increased to take account of the fast acting nature of the carbohydrates you specify, which will probably lead to a hypoglycaemic situation later on.
Your published day's diet on this website would cause me to be permanently hyperglycaemic, with immediate & long term deleterious effects on my health. For a diabetic injecting insulin, this type of diet has been proven to cause a roller coaster ride of high & low extremes in blood glucose levels, leading to poor control of the disease, possibly resulting in blindness, kidney failure & the need to amputate limbs. Such problems were a contributory cause of my brother's death. He was a type 1 diabetic with poorly controlled blood glucose, kidney failure, & diabetic retinopathy.
End quote.
Possibly a little over the top, though.
 Signature Tciao for Now!
John.
Andy Hall - 23 Jul 2008 22:56 GMT >>> Thought this might be of interest:- >>> >>> http://www.tescodiets.com/index.cfm?currpage=contact&subsection=contact&code=350144 their
suggested
>>> "diabetic diet" is so appalling that many members of >>> diabetes-support.org.uk have written to their dietitian protesting. [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > Possibly a little over the top, though. I don't think so at all. Seems reasonable to me.
John - 23 Jul 2008 23:03 GMT >>> Thought this might be of interest:- >>> [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > >Possibly a little over the top, though. I think the main problem here isn't one of diet but of corporate thinking. Most of us believe different things - it's a free country - and sometime's we're right and sometimes we're wrong. But we decide for ourselves ultimately.
But - increasingly these days - there's a third kind of person involved in our lives - the corporate person. Bad enough that such creatures write what they're paid to write and say what they're paid to say - unfortunately it sounds as though 'Catherine' belongs to that group of corporate animal that even thinks what they're paid to think. Their mind and their opinions are bought and paid for.
Don't shout at 'Catherine' - rather feel sorry for the pitiable creature...
John
John Williamson - 23 Jul 2008 23:38 GMT >> I sent this:- >> >> Start quote. >> <Snip quote for brevity>
>> End quote. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and sometime's we're right and sometimes we're wrong. But we decide > for ourselves ultimately. With guidance from all sources we consult. This is one such source that may be expected to carry a lot of weight with a large sector of the population.
> But - increasingly these days - there's a third kind of person > involved in our lives - the corporate person. Bad enough that such [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Don't shout at 'Catherine' - rather feel sorry for the pitiable > creature... I'd like to know where the information came from. As a source which a lot of people will trust implicitly, there is a certain responsibility to only use & quote best practice, which this isn't. As the representative of her employers, she is, for want of a better term, in the line of fire. Working in a service industry myself, I know how it feels, but accept it as part of the job.
I've only just sent my comment, so I will see what the reply says. If she just spouts corporate speak, then I'll know it's a lost cause.
I'll not be following the plan, anyway.
I'd also be wondering how reliable the other plans are, given what's known about the shortcomings of the diabetic one for diabetics.
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John.
Nicky - 24 Jul 2008 12:53 GMT >I'd also be wondering how reliable the other plans are, given what's >known about the shortcomings of the diabetic one for diabetics. I would put money on Tescos having run their diet plan past DUK, and got the OK from them. Shooting DUK's dieticians en masse would probably improve the breed no end.
Tescos' GI diet is OK - my sister's following it, and it's pretty well down the Jennie Brand-Millar line. I'm also impressed with Tescos' fitness guys - you've got to break past the front line people to 2nd line support, but the back-office people were able to work out a good routine to fit my sister's various needs.
Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25
John Williamson - 24 Jul 2008 13:03 GMT >> I'd also be wondering how reliable the other plans are, given what's >> known about the shortcomings of the diabetic one for diabetics. > > I would put money on Tescos having run their diet plan past DUK, and > got the OK from them. Shooting DUK's dieticians en masse would > probably improve the breed no end. That's more or less what I'd suspected, too.
> Tescos' GI diet is OK - my sister's following it, and it's pretty well > down the Jennie Brand-Millar line. I'm also impressed with Tescos' > fitness guys - you've got to break past the front line people to 2nd > line support, but the back-office people were able to work out a good > routine to fit my sister's various needs. Fair enough. I'd not checked, as it's not a particular interest of mine. I suppose I just extended the level of care shown in the diabetic diet to the other diets.
 Signature Tciao for Now!
John.
Andy Hall - 24 Jul 2008 15:44 GMT >> I'd also be wondering how reliable the other plans are, given what's >> known about the shortcomings of the diabetic one for diabetics. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > line support, but the back-office people were able to work out a good > routine to fit my sister's various needs. Perhaps the GI one is more suitable for diabetics than the diabetic one.
Nicky - 24 Jul 2008 23:04 GMT >Perhaps the GI one is more suitable for diabetics than the diabetic one. Well, I've nicked some recipes - but they're still very into Basmahti rice, and to make sure your pasta is al dente...
Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25
Andy Hall - 24 Jul 2008 23:26 GMT >> Perhaps the GI one is more suitable for diabetics than the diabetic one. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > D&E, 100ug thyroxine > Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25 I find that Basmahti rice is worse than the others.
Solution with pasta has been to have a small amount rather than not at all.
David WE Roberts - 12 Aug 2008 21:27 GMT >>> Perhaps the GI one is more suitable for diabetics than the diabetic one. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Solution with pasta has been to have a small amount rather than not at all. My dietitians keep telling me that Basmahti rice is the lowest GI of all rices. Is this incorrect, or is low GI not the same as slow release and low blood sugar?
Tiger_Lily - 13 Aug 2008 03:52 GMT >>>> Perhaps the GI one is more suitable for diabetics than the diabetic one. >>> Well, I've nicked some recipes - but they're still very into Basmahti [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Is this incorrect, or is low GI not the same as slow release and low blood > sugar? i will ONLY use Basmati rice
someone once explained the starch chain in detail, and why it's lower GI than the other rices (wild rice excepted)
 Signature kate type 1 since 1987 www.diabetic-chat.org www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/newly%20diagnosed.html
Alan S - 13 Aug 2008 10:42 GMT >> I find that Basmahti rice is worse than the others. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Is this incorrect, or is low GI not the same as slow release and low blood >sugar? GI is a rough guide for us as diabetics. GL is a better one. Your own meter, measuring at your blood glucose peak after you eat is the best one.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. -- Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. Blog http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com DLife column http://tinyurl.com/5v74xr http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (Food, Glorious Food)
Trinkwasser - 28 Jul 2008 18:46 GMT >>I'd also be wondering how reliable the other plans are, given what's >>known about the shortcomings of the diabetic one for diabetics. > >I would put money on Tescos having run their diet plan past DUK, and >got the OK from them. Shooting DUK's dieticians en masse would >probably improve the breed no end. Yes, and yes.
Alan S - 24 Jul 2008 05:19 GMT >Don't shout at 'Catherine' - rather feel sorry for the pitiable >creature... > >John Her surname is Gollum? "my precious carbs..."
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. -- Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. Blog http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com DLife column http://tinyurl.com/5v74xr http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (The Taj Mahal)
Alan S - 24 Jul 2008 05:16 GMT >>> Thought this might be of interest:- >>> [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > >Possibly a little over the top, though. Over the top? I thought you were wonderfully understated and reasonable.
I am debating whether to intrude from the far side of the world. Something equally understated.
e.g "You have to be out of your mind!"
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. -- Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. Blog http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com DLife column http://tinyurl.com/5v74xr http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (The Taj Mahal)
Andy Hall - 24 Jul 2008 06:57 GMT > Over the top? I thought you were wonderfully understated and > reasonable. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. Do you have Tescos in Oz, Alan? They have penetrated much of Europe (in the biblical sense of the word if you like) so only a matter of time.
The mass food industry remains geared up for "low fat", which is highly convenient for them because they can substitute sugars for fats on the basis of retaining flavour.
Some major manufacturers such as Heinz and a few others have dipped their toes in the water of low carbohydrate prepared foods but have found that the market is too small to warrant broad product ranges, actively marketed.
Given that set of circumstances and muddled messages (at best) from the government, it isn't surprising that Catherine is saying what she is saying. It is covered by government policy and sales of product. Nonetheless, telling them never does any harm.
Alan S - 24 Jul 2008 10:03 GMT >> Over the top? I thought you were wonderfully understated and >> reasonable. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >saying. It is covered by government policy and sales of product. >Nonetheless, telling them never does any harm. We don't have Tescos here, our equivalents would be Coles and Woolworths. However, I've shopped in Tescos from Prague to the UK, so I know what you mean.
Unfortunately I can't seem to access the page without paying:-(
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. -- Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. Blog http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com DLife column http://tinyurl.com/5v74xr http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (The Taj Mahal)
John Williamson - 24 Jul 2008 10:28 GMT >> Possibly a little over the top, though. > > Over the top? I thought you were wonderfully understated and > reasonable. So did I, sticking to the facts & all that. I did get a reply this morning:-
<Quote> Thanks for the email. I appreciate all of your comments and I can guarantee you that we will review all of our meal plans to ensure they are in keeping with Diabetic recommendations-if any changes need to be made they will be. I do sympathise with you about the loss of your brother, it is tragic that poorly controlled diabetes contributed to his death. However the diabetes plan that we offer is dietitian-approved but we still require all people with diabetes to follow the plan, with their own modifications, under medical supervision, this is mentioned on our registration page.
I am aware that personal insults have been used about me on this board. I have taken the time to reply to anyone that has emailed me about this issue but I will not be having any further communication with you about this as I feel that there are some individuals who are more interested in attacking myself than discussing what we can do to improve our online programmes. <End quote>
Gives me the impression she thinks I'm attacking her personally..... After I've made a couple of suggestions to improve the bit they publish as well.
<Chuckle> I'd threaten to stop using Tesco, but they've not got a branch round here I can stay out of.
> I am debating whether to intrude from the far side of the > world. Something equally understated. > > e.g "You have to be out of your mind!" That'd be about right. :-)
 Signature Tciao for Now!
John.
Robert Miles - 23 Jul 2008 22:56 GMT > Thought this might be of interest:- > > http://www.tescodiets.com/index.cfm?currpage=contact&subsection=contact&code=350144 That web page didn't seem to offer me any way of even seeing their "diabetic diet", possibly because I'm not in the UK, so I decided not to respond using it.
> their suggested "diabetic diet" is so appalling that many members of > diabetes-support.org.uk have written to their dietitian protesting. > "Catherine" has written back extremely smugly defending their diet. I > wonder how many of you would be interested in pricking Catherine's > smug little balloon???? > Patti However, here are a few web sites on the benefits of type 2s using a low-carb diet, so someone who has seen that "diabetic diet" may want to include them in their response:
http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/
http://www.doaj.org/doaj?func=abstract&id=175137
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/pdf/1743-7075-5-14.pdf
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/pdf/1743-7075-5-9.pdf
http://www.dsolve.com/
http://www.nutritionj.com/content/3/1/9
http://diabeteshealth.com/read/2008/06/26/5802.html
http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/issue177/smallnumbers.shtml
<http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F04E2D61F3EF934A35754C0A9649C8B63>
<http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/weight-loss/low-carb-diet-trumps-low-fat-diet -yet-again/>
http://www.healthcentral.com/diabetes/c/17/34192/low-carb-weight-loss
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2008/07/direct-study-result-low-carb.html
And a few other sites that may be relevant:
http://www.healthcentral.com/diabetes/c/5068/25614/exercise-fat
http://diabetesmonitor.com/m57.htm
<http://www.dlife.com/dLife/do/ShowContent/inspiration_expert_advice/expert_colum ns/trecroci_083107.html>
<http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080514/diet_study_080514/2 0080514?hub=Health>
Alan S - 24 Jul 2008 05:28 GMT >Thought this might be of interest:- > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >On Levemir and Novorapid + meds for BP and thyroid >Join us at http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk "The friendly forum!" I can't seem to get in without paying.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. -- Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. Blog http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com DLife column http://tinyurl.com/5v74xr http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (The Taj Mahal)
Patti - 24 Jul 2008 19:27 GMT Apologies all! I copied the url from another post and it was the wrong one. The correct URL to see the actual diet is http://www.tescodiets.com/index.cfm?currpage=dietplans&subsection=dietintro&diet choice=9&code=350144
I worked out that the total carbs for the day were approx 194 - mostly in the breakfast of Weetabix minis with skimmed milk, a pro-biotic drink and a medium banana = 65g - and this at a time when most folks have most insulin resistance.
Lunch of Pitta, cottage cheese, salad leaves and an apple totalled 49g Suggested snack 15g Risotto for dinner approx 39g
No one has, to my knowledge, attacked her personally, though there was some outraged chit chat in a forum about the patronising and condescending manner of her replies + a jokey suggested response which was not, to my knowledge, sent. Nothing worse than anyone would say here, but I guess she may have looked in on the thread. She certainly came across in later replies as very defensive.
It's shocking to me, as has already been pointed out, that such people as Tesco can influence folks because "it must be right" - but then, if DUK can spout that rubbish what can we expect.
FWIW in the copy of Reach that came last week from Accu-Chek it actually mentions a "well controlled diabetic" who sticks to a low carb diet... so perhaps the message is trickling through slowly slowly..... just wish it was a bit quicker! Patti Hba1c 5.5 On Levemir and Novorapid + meds for BP and thyroid Join us at http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk "The friendly forum!"
Andy Hall - 24 Jul 2008 20:15 GMT > Apologies all! I copied the url from another post and it was the > wrong one. The correct URL to see the actual diet is > http://www.tescodiets.com/index.cfm?currpage=dietplans&subsection=dietintro&diet choice=9&code=350144 I
> worked out that the total carbs for the day were approx 194 - mostly > in the breakfast of Weetabix minis with skimmed milk, a pro-biotic [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > On Levemir and Novorapid + meds for BP and thyroid > Join us at http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk "The friendly forum!" .. and it's rather silly, because if the heavy carbohydrate load at breakfast were taken down or out together with the risotto and other fast acting stuff, most of the other ingredients aren't that bad.
Frederick Williams - 02 Aug 2008 15:29 GMT > Thought this might be of interest:- > > http://www.tescodiets.com/index.cfm?currpage=contact&subsection=contact&code=350144 > their suggested "diabetic diet" is so appalling that many members of > diabetes-support.org.uk have written to their dietitian protesting. > "Catherine" has written back extremely smugly defending their diet. What did Catherine (or even "Catherine") say. Why would anyone at all interested in the health aspects of what they eat take the advise of a food retailer anyway?
 Signature He is not here; but far away The noise of life begins again And ghastly thro' the drizzling rain On the bald street breaks the blank day.
John Williamson - 02 Aug 2008 19:30 GMT >> Thought this might be of interest:- >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > interested in the health aspects of what they eat take the advise of a > food retailer anyway? My e-mail to her & her reply are quoted elsewhere in the thread.
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John.
David WE Roberts - 17 Aug 2008 11:04 GMT > Thought this might be of interest:- > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > On Levemir and Novorapid + meds for BP and thyroid > Join us at http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk "The friendly forum!" From reading through this thread and following the link it seems that Tesco and "Catherine" are following current dietitian guidelines and the advice from Diabetes UK.
This does not to me classify the diet as "appalling".
This seems a perfectly reasonable and responsible approach from a large retailer.
Therefore "Catherine" and Tesco should not the target of this mini-hate campaign.
By all means write to Tesco and explain that there is a trend in modern diabetic thinking which is at odds with established theory as taught to dietitians and propagated by Diabetes UK, and explain what the alternative thinking is and why it should be considered.
Personal abuse is not the mature approach, and is unlikely to result in an alternative view being considered seriously.
Frankly, it does make me wonder quite who is living inside a "smug little balloon".
Cheers
Dave R
Alan S - 19 Aug 2008 10:46 GMT >> Thought this might be of interest:- >> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > >Dave R Hello David.
You've been posting here since April, but I hadn't really got to know you. So I went back and looked at some of your posts.
This one stood out:
"My surgery, with a specialist diabetic nurse, tell me that they have stopped giving out test kits to the newly diagnosed because they weren't seeing any real benefit.
<snip> I am feeling O.K. at the moment - no sign of the symptoms which alerted me to having diabetes - but I sometimes wonder if I am doing enough. It is hard to tell without symptoms or a test kit."
Are you testing yet?
I ask because it is difficult to believe that any type 2 following the testing advice advocated here: http://jennifer.flyingrat.net/ could possibly believe that Tesco diet is anything but appalling.
The fact that Diebetes UK or the NHS or the ADA may approve it does not make it less appalling, just more widespread and more difficult to fight. Nor does it make it a perfectly reasonable approach. It may be reasonable in a marketing sense, but not in a health sense.
Incidentally, I signed up to have a look, didn't like the details I had to provide and tried to unsubscribe - and gave up trying; it was near impossible. I still keep getting their emails.
All that aside, I hope you are testing now and using that excellent advice from Jennifer. If not please consider it.
On smug little balloons, ignorance of post-prandial blood glucose excursions is definitely not bliss for us.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. -- Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. Blog http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com DLife column http://tinyurl.com/5v74xr http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (Food, Glorious Food in India)
David WE Roberts - 22 Aug 2008 13:22 GMT <snip> So I went back and looked at some of your
> posts. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Are you testing yet? Still not testing, but probably will be soon.
In support of my local surgery, they said that they didn't issue testers and strips "as a matter of course" any more because they weren't seeing real benefits.
However the diabetic nurse said that if i wanted to start testing at any time she had some spare testers - they are forward looking and supportive which appears not to be the case with all surgeries.
Therefore the decision not to test initially has been mine, and the surgery will fully support me if and when I wish to start testing.
I stand by my point that Tesco seem to have taken what MOST would consider to be the best professional advice around - and therefore the main issue should be with those giving out the advice to Tesco, and that should be reflected in any feedback.
Cheers
Dave R
Alan S - 22 Aug 2008 13:51 GMT ><snip> So I went back and looked at some of your >> posts. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > >Dave R Dave, I won't argue further with you. It would be pointless.
I will ask you to make a note to yourself to re-read what you just wrote in six months time.
In the meantime, I invite you to read a couple of blog posts of mine. I hope they will influence your opinion.
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2008/04/is-testing-worthwhile.html and http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/10/test-review-adjust.html
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. -- d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_s/ http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (On Indian Roads)
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