Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2008
hyperglycaemic
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steve bod - 16 May 2008 10:11 GMT Hi all, I have been on Orlistat fat busting drug for 5 weeks now and since being on it I have been almost permanently hyperglycaemic, I'm due at the endocrinologist next week and have been adjusting my nova rapid and glargine accordingly but remain very high with my lowest count during the day at 12.00 mmols and the highest around 20 mmols. I know its high and I don't feel sick when I go that high either. I have been in contact with lifescan who sent new batteries for my meter and I have tested the meter and all is OK. How high does my blood glucose have to get before I should consider going to hospital? I was told 25 mmols but I am unsure. I am also certain that Orlistat is supposed to give inaccurate low BG readings but that appears to be rubbish as mine are so high.
Please advise.
Many thanks to the group in advance.
Stephen B.
Alan S - 16 May 2008 11:16 GMT >Hi all, >I have been on Orlistat fat busting drug for 5 weeks now and since [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Please advise. I don't know the threshold numbers for emergency - but if your numbers were OK before the Orlistat I'd dump it now and see the doc ASAP.
Those BG levels are way too high for comfort. What timing are they, relative to your meals?
You mentioned the drug - but not your diet. What are you eating? What, if anything, have you changed in your menu?
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.
Angkor Wat http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
steve bod - 16 May 2008 12:00 GMT > On Fri, 16 May 2008 02:11:14 -0700 (PDT), steve bod > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Thanks for the reply, I spoke to my diabetic Nurse at Hammersmith Hospital earlier, she has increased my nova rapid to 18 units and my glargine to 32. She's asking advise from the docs at the hammersmith hospital concerning my orlistat drug, my GP put me on this drug to lose weight and I think its working. but don't really want to risk my health and remain hyper because of this. I did try explaining to my GP that I don't infact eat much fat despite my weight, but he said I was in denial, but I can assure you I do not eat much fat, indeed I have been on diets pretty much all my life and for a fat guy i'm actually firmer than many of my slimmer friends. I forgot to mention Im 45 years old. my diet is low fat, zero sugar. I think because the doc thinks im eating lots of fat when infact I'm not it's giving me some odd readings. I actually went up to 24.4 earler but its falling now. the nurse said that the higher dose of glargine will take 3 days to become effective.
Thanks again for the advice, but will continue the orlistat until doc tells me to come off, but your right it's only since being on this drug that the readings have been high.
Steve.
Nick Cramer - 16 May 2008 12:26 GMT > > On Fri, 16 May 2008 02:11:14 -0700 (PDT), steve bod [ . . . ]
> > You mentioned the drug - but not your diet. What are you > > eating? What, if anything, have you changed in your menu?
> Thanks for the reply, > I spoke to my diabetic Nurse at Hammersmith Hospital earlier, she has [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > tells me to come off, but your right it's only since being on this > drug that the readings have been high. You didn't mention your carbohydrates. Bread stuffs, rice, pastas and such. Those are major contributors to your blood glucose and fat. How much of those? Milk? Fruits? What kind? The best way to lose weight is by reducing your carbs and exercising more.
Can you get the results of your blood tests?
Take care.
 Signature Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~
Nicky - 16 May 2008 12:49 GMT >I did try explaining to my GP that I don't infact eat much fat despite >my weight, but he said I was in denial, but I can assure you I do not >eat much fat, indeed I have been on diets pretty much all my life and >for a fat guy i'm actually firmer than many of my slimmer friends. >I forgot to mention Im 45 years old. >my diet is low fat, zero sugar. Your doctor is an idiot... A diabetic gets fat because of insulin resistance. What happens is that you eat some carbohydrate. A non-diabetic's body would immediately produce exactly the right amount of insulin to sweep it into your cells, where it can be used. A diabetic's cells are resistant to the action of insulin, with two consequences; your cells can't get enough fuel, so they send "I'm starving!" signals to the brain, which it translates into hunger even if you've only just eaten. Then there's all that insulin swimming around in your system. In a non-diabetic, an excess of insulin means good times; insulin's role then becomes to tuck spare carbohydrates away as fat. Now a diabetic gets a third whammy, because fat around your stomach is hormonally active, and interferes with the signaling that says you're full. So you now have starving cells, no mechanism to tell when you've had enough food, and excess insulin tucking away all that nice, low fat pasta, crown rice, etc straight into fat cells, making the cycle worse.
For heaven's sake STOP eating low fat, and try moving towards low carbohydrate. You actually need to eat some fats, to encourage turnover of fat cells so you can get rid of it. Oh, and stop the disgusting drug, too... Get your blood glucose in order, and you will almost certainly lose weight without trying. If you still have a weight issue with normal bg, THEN you could look at total calories, including fat ones, to see if you need to adjust.
Try this link to start working out what foods are safe for your diabetes. You're going to have to make small changes and be prepared to lower your insulin dose if you go low. http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm
Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25
Steve Bod - 16 May 2008 13:46 GMT >> I did try explaining to my GP that I don't infact eat much fat despite >> my weight, but he said I was in denial, but I can assure you I do not [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > D&E, 100ug thyroxine > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 Wow, thanks Nicky, oddly enough my tummy rumbles immediately after eating, I put that down to the orlistat preventing me from absorbing fat. As you probably know there are some nasty side effects from using this drug. The side effects, particularly the tango orange coloured poo etc lasted a very short time which I guess is because of the fact i'm not taking in much fat.
Thanks for the enlightening information.
you guys were very helpful last new year (2007) when I had recently come out of an 8 day diabetic coma.(newly diagnosed)
thanks for all your input, I always take it on board and bounce off my GP.
Best wishes.
Steve.
DaveT - 16 May 2008 23:00 GMT >>> I did try explaining to my GP that I don't infact eat much fat despite >>> my weight, but he said I was in denial, but I can assure you I do not [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > Steve. Personally I would bounce the doctor permanent and look for a new one. Diabetes treatment is a balance between carbs, insulin and exercise. Fat comes when there is too much of the first and not enough of one or both of the last 2. Please take note of Nicky.
 Signature DaveT T1 Dx 1955 (aged 9) Basal Hypurin Beef Lente Bolus Lispro
Trinkwasser - 16 May 2008 19:28 GMT >>I did try explaining to my GP that I don't infact eat much fat despite >>my weight, but he said I was in denial, but I can assure you I do not [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >to lower your insulin dose if you go low. >http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm What she says!
Unfortunately you must have met the same clueless doctor I used to have, he put me on a low fat high carb diet which promptly made my llipids and blood pressure worse, so he put me on an even lower fat and even higher carb diet and when that made things worse still he wrote me up as "not complying" with the diet when the real problem, as I have subsequently discovered, was that the diet was crap, and in fact dangerous.
For a more extended read go here
http://www.dsolve.com/
the "How To" section was actually written by a clueful doctor, so your current idiot can't dismiss it as the rantings on an amateur.
Be careful dropping your carbs that you also decrease your insulin accordingly or you could enter hypo territory, hopefully you've been taught how to do this? If not the insulin users here should be able to help along with the above site.
Patti - 18 May 2008 19:57 GMT If you aren't sure how to adjust insulin do the BDEC carb counting course on line
http://www.bdec-e-learning.com/ Patti Penzance, Cornwall On Levemir and Novorapid + meds for BP and thyroid Join us at http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk "The friendly forum!"
Ozgirl - 17 May 2008 00:38 GMT Steve, you do know that carbs are "sigar" don't you? If you are doing low fat then you are probably having a lot of carbs which are usually a big non no for diabetics. There is absolutely no reason to have low fat,. Just make sure you eat fats that are health providing rather than sat or trans fats. Fats satisfy as well as have no impact on bg's.
>> <bod6...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi all, [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > Steve. Alan S - 17 May 2008 01:59 GMT >I did try explaining to my GP that I don't infact eat much fat despite >my weight, but he said I was in denial, but I can assure you I do not >eat much fat, indeed I have been on diets pretty much all my life and >for a fat guy i'm actually firmer than many of my slimmer friends. >I forgot to mention Im 45 years old. >my diet is low fat, zero sugar. Hi Steve
Well, I don't need to say it, as Nicky, Jan and the others already have. I totally concur with them.
So, to head you in a better direction, I'll repeat the link that others gave you but with a UK address: http://jennifer.flyingrat.net/
That was the single most important advice I received from any source since diagnosis.
And this is how I put that into practice myself: http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/10/test-review-adjust.html
Just one extra word. As you are on insulin, hasten slowly with changes. You don't want to turn those horrible highs into equally horrible lows.
Finally, on weight, the changes you make from crazy low-fat/high carb to being guided by your meter will help far more than the new drug IMO. Discuss that with your NEW doctor. I'd recommend dropping that drug ASAP.
To assist with the weight loss, this is how I did it: http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/10/weight-loss-cooking-and-eating-plan.html
Hopefully some of the ideas there may help.
Good luck.
Cheers Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher. http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
DaveT - 17 May 2008 18:13 GMT snip
> Just one extra word. As you are on insulin, hasten slowly with changes. > You don't want to turn those horrible highs into equally horrible lows. That's the bit that worries me, instead of just upping both his basal and bolus why did his medic team not show him how to control his highs using the results from his meter and his bolus insulin and carb intake? Without that information he must reduce his carb intake to get that weight and the Bg results down, by upping the daily dose, that could lead to hypos. Not good management IMO.
 Signature DaveT T1 Dx 1955 (aged 9) Basal Hypurin Beef Lente Bolus Lispro
ANITA STONE TAMPA FLORIDA - 17 May 2008 21:17 GMT > > On Fri, 16 May 2008 02:11:14 -0700 (PDT), steve bod > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I AGREE WITH NICKY AND ALAN. TEST TEST TEST You will find what you can eat, everyone is different. Read Alan's blog -->> maybe my kitchen videos will help you: www.youtube.com/videofitnesscoach. BEST WISHES! VIDEO FITNESS COACH ANITA STONE www.videofitnesscoach.com www.timetogetfit.biz www.timetogetfit.blogspot.com
ANITA STONE TAMPA FLORIDA - 17 May 2008 21:20 GMT > Hi all, > I have been on Orlistat fat busting drug for 5 weeks now and since [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Stephen B. Stephen, why are you taking Orlistat? Is that the one that binds to fat in your intestines and flushes it out so it is not absorbed? Or do I have it confused with another drug with a similar name?
Stephen Bowden - 19 May 2008 15:33 GMT >> Hi all, >> I have been on Orlistat fat busting drug for 5 weeks now and since [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > fat in your intestines and flushes it out so it is not absorbed? > Or do I have it confused with another drug with a similar name? Yep, it prevents the body absorbing fat in the gut and has some uncomfortable side effects for the first few weeks.(orange greasy stools and flatulance with follow through I was offered Orlistat or Accomplia but opted for Orlistat as Accomplia has an effect on the brain and reports in the USA state that some people were having suicidal thoughts whilst on the drug.
Hey my Partner and kids are not long back from Florida, they had a great time in your neck of the woods, including Tampa.
Steve.
Erica Nurney - 17 May 2008 22:57 GMT > Hi all, > I have been on Orlistat fat busting drug for 5 weeks now and since [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Please advise. I'm on Orlistat as well but I have the opposite problem, as soon as I started taking it my BG's dropped and I have been able to reduce Lantus from 52 to 34 units, and Aspart from 20-28u to 15-22u
I have been fighting hypos since I started taking it, not to mention the oily faeces. I have also lost 10kg since the new year.
EN
> Many thanks to the group in advance. > > Stephen B.
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