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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2008Odd numbers
FBG 5.1 (slightly higher than normal but not outrageous) Had bacon, sausage, egg, fried bread (1/2 slice) for breakfast. Plus small piece toast. Cycled 11 miles Before lunch - 4.7 Lunch was small piece of baked salmon, salad, and about 15-20g carb (about as much as usual) 1 hour after lunch 10.6 2 hours 16.5 3 hours 9.8 4 1/2 hours 4.2 I don't usually have any trouble with lunch if I don't add too much into the mix in the afternoon...Mostly around 6 or 6.5 at most Can this possibly be the effect of a higher-than-usual protein breakfast? And yes, I did wash thoroughly each time. All the above are the (slightly) lower of 2 tests Opinions, please? Americans, times 18.2 for your big numbers, I can't be bothered... Helen Howes > FBG 5.1 (slightly higher than normal but not outrageous) > Had bacon, sausage, egg, fried bread (1/2 slice) for breakfast. Plus [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Can this possibly be the effect of a higher-than-usual protein > breakfast? The more protein I eat the lower the bg's, so for me that wouldn't be the cause. > And yes, I did wash thoroughly each time. All the above are the > (slightly) lower of 2 tests > > Opinions, please? I couldn't even begin to guess at what casued such high bg's for a meal like that. The breakfast yes, but not the lunch. What was in the salad, what dressing if any, what were your 20 gr carb made up of? > FBG 5.1 (slightly higher than normal but not outrageous) > Had bacon, sausage, egg, fried bread (1/2 slice) for breakfast. Plus [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Americans, times 18.2 for your big numbers, I can't be bothered... You had fried bread *and* toast at breakfast? I could never get away with that unless my FBG was below 3.5 mmol/L! Your 1, 2 & 3 hour post prandial numbers look quite high to this left ponder, too, especially that 300 mg/dL at 2 hours. My doctor would waterboard me for that! What was the GI of the carbs you had at lunch? What did you drink while, and when you got back from, cycling? What did you drink with lunch? Did something stressful happen around that time? Take care.  SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ Nick wrote:- > You had fried bread *and* toast at breakfast? I could never get away with > that unless my FBG was below 3.5 mmol/L! Total 1 slice bread, quite thin. Don't forget the "cycled 11 miles, too" Your 1, 2 & 3 hour post prandial > numbers look quite high to this left ponder, too, especially that 300 mg/dL > at 2 hours. My doctor would waterboard me for that! These are totally untypical for me. That's why I'm asking... > What was the GI of the carbs you had at lunch? GI makes no odds to me, just quantity, but for what it's worth, it was 1/2 a white scone. What did you drink while, > and when you got back from, cycling? Water, tea, real coffee. What did you drink with lunch? Tea Did > something stressful happen around that time? Yes, my damned blood sugar went up <grin> Ozgirl wrote:-The breakfast yes, but not the lunch. What was in the salad, what dressing if any, No dressing, lettuce, two very small tomatoes, cucumber, carrot. All normally tolerated extremely well. Still puzzled. I felt really ill all afternoon, so it's not a meter fault.. HH Hi Helen, Just a few questions. Your FBG is within my nurses quote of 4-8 although i expect different nurses around the UK have different opinions on that? Firstly are you new(ish) to 'The club'? Are you on medication to control your numbers? Just asking as when id been on Glicazide for over 2 months i had a BG spike of 16 and i know what it feels like :-( Im no expert but to me there looks to be a high level of fat content in your breakfast which like protein takes longer for the body to break down. bearing this in mind when your having your dinner, you may still be having a slow bg rise from your breakfast which you then are adding to with your dinner. What was your 20g carb? To me your dinner looks ok but breakfast was not the best (BG wise) Fried bread! Well just to say a similar thing happened to me after the first 2 months of DX and on Glicazide. I ate all the correct things except a small Mars bar which i had because i was fishing in the middle of nowhere and thought that would reduce the risk of a low BG due to the medication i was getting used to. Got home tested and had BG's like yours But then i ate my tea which wasn't anything bad..Veg (lots of) mashed potatoes without butter/milk 200g steamed chicken and cup of tea. The BG spike was within the hour as i kepted a log of my early days to see what foods spiked me so i could avoid them. My BG before dinner was as follows Start 5.3 1 hour 15.5 2 hours 16.0 3 hours 16.0 After that i went out for a very brisk walk indeed to try and help the BG's go down According to my records my FGB the next day were 5.4 with my next 'spike at 8.5 2 hours after my meal. The only 'bad' thing i could see in my food intake for that day was the mars bar so from that day ive not had chocolate and ive never had a bad BG spike again so perhaps if you do do breakfast like that again id suggest cutting out the fried bread and see what happens. Ok Helen sorry for waffling on but just to say what happened isn't uncommon, it's finding the foods that your body now cannot cope with so well and cutting them out. Cheers Chris in Sunny????? Nottingham >Im no expert but to me there looks to be a high level of fat content in your >breakfast which like protein takes longer for the body to break down. Chris - the effect of fat is to delay absorption of carbs; it has no other effect on your bg. For goodness sake, lay off the mashed spuds - and if you must have a small portion, put some fat on 'em... Chocolate, good, dark, 72%+ stuff, is reasonably low carb and good for you, in small quantities. Mars bars, otoh, are pure sugar. You'd be better off packing an apple for your fishing trips - whilst around 17g carbs, they've got lots of fiber to slow it down, and will be recycling all the other vitamin C you've eaten that day. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >>Im no expert but to me there looks to be a high level of fat content in >>your [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Nicky. Hi nicky.. thanks for that! i couldn't see my posted message and then found out id got a nasty on the email front! Yes mashed tats now out now...Just a thought ...why do the NICE people say to eat potatoes then? i used to eat potatoes skins by the plate load! Bad thing was what i put in them! :-( you live and learn to live LOL >Yes mashed tats now out now...Just a thought ...why do the NICE people say >to eat potatoes then? i used to eat potatoes skins by the plate load! Bad >thing was what i put in them! :-( you live and learn to live LOL Cos they're stuck in the low-fat stupidity of the 80s. Actually, if you scrape as much innards out of the skins as possible, and eat 'em with something reasonably fatty to slow carb absorption down (bacon and a bit of melted Cheddar, maybe?) they're a reasonable treat. High calorie, of course, but kind on the bg. Eat a few of them with a big portion of salad and some coleslaw, and it might be a good meal for you. I find I can eat a reasonable quantity of sweet potato mash without too much bother - it seems to be higher in fiber? Got some of that planned to go with a pork roast tomorrow. It also makes good chips - so do Jerusalem artichokes or celeriac; cut them chunky, coat them with olive oil and bake until done, turning occasionally. Two or three baby new pots are _sometimes_ OK for me, but sometimes blow me sky-high. I don't like them enough to gamble, usually. YMMV... try these things, test, see how you react. Maybe mashed pots is OK for you - IF you're under 8 an hour after eating, and lower after that. There's a couple of varieties of lower-carb potatoes you could look out for if it's soul food - Adora's one, and Nicola's another. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >Hi nicky.. >thanks for that! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >to eat potatoes then? i used to eat potatoes skins by the plate load! Bad >thing was what i put in them! :-( you live and learn to live LOL Actually, guessing at those "bad things" they were probably much better for you than the potato:-) Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Valderee, Valderah. Or, I love To Go A-wandering... > Nick wrote:- >> You had fried bread *and* toast at breakfast? I could never get away with [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > I felt really ill all afternoon, so it's not a meter fault.. I'm no expert, but from personal experience:- a) If I have a similar meal to your breakfast, i.e. a high fat content, my 2 hour reading after the following meal can be pretty high dependant on what I eat for that meal. I think it's something to do with the fats delaying / prolonging the time it takes for your body to deal with the sugar / carb content. For example, if I dare to eat pizza for tea, I can guarantee waking up the next morning with a high fasting reading. b) I cycle similar / longer distances daily and find that it normally only has a nominal effect on my 2 hour readings. When I go out with the cycling group from Church and we ride at a far slower speed than I normally do, my numbers plummet! A similar thing happens if I walk for 2 or 3 miles. c) The scone possibly didn't help. I love the things, but they can really increase my numbers - probably something to do with the carb and sugar content ;-) d) It could be possible that rather than your meals causing the high numbers, you are fighting some sort of a virus. This always affects my numbers. e) Are you stressed about anything (aside from the high numbers, of course)? Again, this always affects my readings. Having said all of the above, sometimes blips happen for no apparent reason! Are you back to normal today? Keep up with the cycling BTW. I went back to it last June after a 20-odd year break when a friend lent me a "bike of bits". Since then, I've gone from being barely able to make it around the block to riding anything up to 25 miles at a time. I bought a new bike at the beginning of September and I've managed to ride 1400-odd miles since then - it still astounds me every time I think about it! It's done wonders for my overall fitness - I've lost 2 stone in weight - and it's taken me off medication altogether! Hope this helps Kevin the Lurker > Nick wrote:- > > [ . . . ] > GI makes no odds to me, just quantity, but for what it's worth, it was > 1/2 a white scone. Did you make the scones? Did you replace the sugar with Splenda® or equivalent? Have you tried Scottish Oat Scones (half oatmeal)? SCOTTISH OAT SCONES 1 1/2 cups all purpose flour 1 1/4 cup old-fashioned oatmeal 1/4 cup sugar [or Splenda® - Nick] 1 tablespoon baking powder 1 teaspoon cream of tartar 1/2 teaspoon salt 2/3 cup unsalted butter, melted 1/3 cup milk 1 egg, beaten to blend 1/2 cup raisins [dried berries better IMO - Nick] Preheat oven to 450°F. Grease cookie sheet. Combine first 6 ingredients in large bowl. Mix together butter, milk and egg in another bowl. Add to dry ingredients and stir until just moistened. Mix in raisins [Whoops!]. Shape dough into ball. Place on lightly floured work surface. Pat out to form 3/4-inch-thick circle. Using sharp knife, cut into 12 wedges. Transfer to prepared cookies sheet. Bake until light brown, about 12 minutes. Cool slightly on rack. (Can be prepared 1 day ahead. Cool completely. Store in airtight container.) > Did something stressful happen around that time? > > Yes, my damned blood sugar went up <grin> > [ . . . ] LOL Glad you've still got your sense of humour! ;-D Take care. SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >FBG 5.1 (slightly higher than normal but not outrageous) >Had bacon, sausage, egg, fried bread (1/2 slice) for breakfast. Plus [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >3 hours 9.8 >4 1/2 hours 4.2 Sounds nuts indeed. I'm assuming the cycling wasn't right before that before lunch reading, masking something higher still hanging around from breakfast? How are you feeling today, maybe you're coming down with something? Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 What did you drink at lunchtime ? OK, lots of questions First of all, I don't think Chris (fastmoggy) is doing the same dietary ideas as the rest of us. Mashed potatoes need butter, and to be eaten in Very Small Portions. Mars bars? No comment <grin> Best of luck darling, with the eyes and feet... Fat does not convert to glucose, but sugars, starch and approximately 1/2 of the protein you eat does. I do not do a low fat diet, never have, and don't think it works for me or any diabetic. I weigh 58 kilos, BMI of approx 23 and have lost as much weight as I need to. I was diagnosed this time last year after a very short period (probably less than a month) of diabetes. I am on steroids (not a high dose) for arthritis, which triggered the tendency (wrong grandfather, folks!) but I don't think it made more than a year or so's difference in the timing. I was always going to do this...Prednisolone does tend to push up my numbers, but very consistently, so I don't think that was it. I do not normally suffer from liver dumps, and am fit. I drink very weak tea and two cups of real coffee a day, plus water. I'm not dehydrated. I don't think I have an infection, as I have found they express very strongly in my FBG numbers. Incidentally, if your nurse thinks 8 is acceptable as an FBG, I would try to get another nurse. That would be too high for me as a postmeal number on normal days. I aim for less than 7.5 at all times. Most of my 1 and 2 hour postmeals are below 7. Thanks for the recipe, Nick, but I don't tolerate oats at all, don't do much flour, and do not use sweeteners of any kind.. Not healthy. The 1/2 scone weighs about 22 grams plus the butter, so the carb must be less than that.... Nicky, no, the cycling was after and before breakfast (cafe is 5.5 miles away). I find I can do as I please in the mornings, all that happens is I sometimes get hungry on the way back. As to today FBG 5.1 Small usual breakfast, no problems, cycled again, lunch very small portion ham, salad as yesterday with watercress, lettuce, cucumber, tiny tomato, no dressing. Didn't test before, but was low not high.. 1 hour 10.6 2 hours 9.6 Ate croissant anyway as despairing by now (19g carb) 1 hour later 5.6 Bloody hell fire.... HH Teaching all day tomorrow, we'll see what happens there... >As to today >FBG 5.1 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >1 hour later 5.6 >Bloody hell fire.... Sounds like a liver dump. Bit more carb at lunch, if you're cycling? Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:00:13 -0700 (PDT), Helen Howes > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > D&E, 100ug thyroxine > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 Well. I'm going to try a bit more carb at lunch today and see what happens. I am getting very bored with all the ups and downs. A1c test on Monday, so we'll see... HH > OK, lots of questions > > First of all, I don't think Chris (fastmoggy) is doing the same > dietary ideas as the rest of us. Mashed potatoes need butter, and to > be eaten in Very Small Portions. Mars bars? No comment <grin> Best of > luck darling, with the eyes and feet... Hi Helen, Just to say that mashed potatoes are in past and with no butter when i had it which ..tasted yuk as i remember..as for mars bars and the like..NOT touched since the incident back in 2004 and not had a nasty spike since. Eyes and feet 100% so far.. now days it's fish and chicken with the odd treat just not exercising as much as i did but getting back into it now the weathers turned nice??? Bring back Michael fish i say.. i could do with a huricane to push me up them hills LOL >FBG 5.1 (slightly higher than normal but not outrageous) >Had bacon, sausage, egg, fried bread (1/2 slice) for breakfast. Plus [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Americans, times 18.2 for your big numbers, I can't be bothered... Looks to me like the sort of thing I used to get from a liver dump, then eating on top of it. Paradoxically it may be that you could use some *more* carbs (slow/low GI) before or during the cycling. Timing is all important though. Also you may have been temporarily dehydrated? I'm currently playing with the opposite problem, using ALA (metformin not available with my numbers) this has stomped out my liver dumps but good to the extent I now have to be careful of exercise-induced lows, the same walk can drop me anything between 0.2 to 2.5 points depending on timing after meal, BG when starting out, amount of carbs and the number you first thought of, the "cure" is identical to what I used to do to avoid the dumps, careful timing and bolusing with slow carbs prior to and during exertion. on the way up, I met my blood sugar going down . . . > FBG 5.1 (slightly higher than normal but not outrageous) > Had bacon, sausage, egg, fried bread (1/2 slice) for breakfast. Plus [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > breakfast? > <snip> An alternative thought - I read an article recently (can't remember where) which said that if you were into major regular exercise, if you gave it up your blood sugar went through the roof for a while (not just diabetics - anyone). There didn't seem to be a full explanation but perhaps it was because the body gets used to dumping extra glucose into the bloodstream where there are regular high demands due to exercise. Perhaps it then takes a while for the body to realise that the demand is no longer there. So perhaps your body was reacting to the cycle ride and chucking extra glucose into the bloodstream in anticipation of more demand? Then again, this could be total rubbish ;-) Cheers Dave R > > FBG 5.1 (slightly higher than normal but not outrageous) > > Had bacon, sausage, egg, fried bread (1/2 slice) for breakfast. Plus [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Dave R Well, I ride every day and I'm fit, so it doesn't vary much. I am told I do much more than the "required amount" of exercise, but I have always done that. I am also told that less than 1 percent of diabetics do "enough" (Defined as 20 mins 3 times a week...WTF?) Saturday I had a spike after lunch, but not as big. I did have a bit more carb. Teaching all day so no bike ride, but I walk miles round the classroom and I had a stroll at lunchtime. Yesterday I had normal postmeals all day. Only change I made was to take one of my Metformin after lunch instead of 2 after breakfast (2 in the evening). Post lunch I never went over 6.5 Today I had really odd numbers. Pre-lunch 4.7 Lunch - 2 slices Burgen bread, crabsticks, salad. 1 hour 4.8 2-1/2 hours 5.4 4 hours 4.7 Duh? Took the Met at breakfast and supper as usual. Perhaps the secret is to eat fish for lunch? I think all this may have been the body's way of preventing complacency. I am aiming to find a Way of Eating/Way of Life which requires as little "messing about" as possible. I went for my Hba1c this morning, watch this space... HH >Today I had really odd numbers. Pre-lunch 4.7 >Lunch - 2 slices Burgen bread, crabsticks, salad. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Took the Met at breakfast and supper as usual. >Perhaps the secret is to eat fish for lunch? Vinaigrette on the salad? But I wouldn't complain : ) Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > Vinaigrette on the salad? But I wouldn't complain : ) Allergic to vinegar... HH Daughter turned up with lowcarb muffins today. Very nice.... Latest A1c - 5.5 Perhaps I'm not getting it all wrong.. HH >Latest A1c - 5.5 > >Perhaps I'm not getting it all wrong.. > >HH Wow! Looks to me that whatever you're doing is working wonderfully for you. In the words of the best doctor I know - keep doing what you're doing:-) Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter. and Cambodia http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html >Latest A1c - 5.5 > >Perhaps I'm not getting it all wrong.. Woo-hoo! Excellent, Helen! Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >Latest A1c - 5.5 > >Perhaps I'm not getting it all wrong.. We demand details. Brilliant! |
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