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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2008Testing on the news
The BBC have just done nothing for my blood pressure by saving that the NHS could save tons of money by "not encouraging Type 2s to test" - it's that damn BMJ article coming back to bite us. However, I simmered down a bit when they stopped doing the headline ear-grabbers and went to the article itself, which showed a perfectly sane, healthy T2 testing reasonably, and a woman I haven't seen before from DUK saying that SMBG prevents complications. They couldn't find a T2 who was prepared to say that too much testing made them a nervous wreck. Nicky (who would prefer to KNOW what her bg is so she can do something about it, thankyouverymuch!) T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 see... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7352321.stm > From: "Peter C" <petercy@hotmail.co.uk> > Organization: NTL [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > see... > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7352321.stm My former GP had this philosophy of not testing. He believed in going to drugs right away, in my case metformin. My endocrinologist is of a different school of thought, believes in home testing, and consequently, three years after diagnosis, I am still taking no medication, and am keeping my blood glucose in excellent control. My fasting test this morning read 78 (4.3). Testing helps me know what to eat, and serves as an early warning system. I certainly have not become a nervous wreck from testing. I test moderately, twice a week for a full day of testing: fasting, one hour after breakfast, lunch and dinner. I never feel nervous about it. My lab tests bear out my good control. They were last done last month, and my fasting number was 4.39. My A1c was 5.4 %. I fear that economic reasons are behind the "no testing" philosophy. This is in my opinion penny wise pound foolish. Donna Evleth > The BBC have just done nothing for my blood pressure by saving that > the NHS could save tons of money by "not encouraging Type 2s to test" [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > T2 who was prepared to say that too much testing made them a nervous > wreck. Yes also saw it which made me a bit miffed. Id say it was 'normal' to be genuinely worried if you had a health problem with little chance of a cure. When i had my strips 'removed' for my own sanity (according to the PCT) my A1c was 5.4. After 12 months with no strips it was at Christmas 6.1 plus id put on a few kilos as now not testing i tend to have a 'one won't hurt me meal' . My next 'full test' because of the rise is in June so at a guess id say it will be higher and i do exercise daily whether it be a 6 mile bike ride of a illy route (no chance of slacking! LOL) or a 5 mile walk to work and back.. Anyway i was just wondering how much i will cost the NHS when im injecting and stabbing? then times that by hundreds if not thousands. The problem with 'this' government is they think short term and know when the 'explosion' finally happens they will be long gone out the picture. As you say Nicky, I would prefer to know what my Bg's are so i can then adjust lifestyle. >> The BBC have just done nothing for my blood pressure by saving that >> the NHS could save tons of money by "not encouraging Type 2s to test" [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > As you say Nicky, I would prefer to know what my Bg's are so i can then > adjust lifestyle. Ditto. I'd been a feeling bit off before my last test a few weeks ago, so I'd not been testing, so I'd not noticed my diet deteriorating. Nothing physical, just a case of "What the hell, I can't be bothered". The result was an increase from 6.1 to 6.4, & they want another test in 3 months. Back to the grind.... ;-) I liked the attitude of the guy they interviewed, who apparently went from couch potato to hill walker & mountain climber after diagnosis due to his testing & control routine. :-) Then they showed a row of stationary bikes in a gym, implying that's what we should all be doing instead of testing. I wonder how much it costs to treat an exercise induced hypo in a gym?  SignatureTciao for Now! John. >> The BBC have just done nothing for my blood pressure by saving that >> the NHS could save tons of money by "not encouraging Type 2s to test" [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >As you say Nicky, I would prefer to know what my Bg's are so i can then >adjust lifestyle. This appears to be the paper referred to http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/bmj.39534.571644.BEv1?rss=1 <cynic mode> Well you'd be depressed if you tested on average once per day and despite following your friendly NHS dietician's low fat high carb nightmare diet you found your numbers were total crap and there was nothing you could do about it, eh? To put things into perpective the BBC article links to this story http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7062473.stm Look at the A1cs they quote for God's sake, 83% of diabetics don't even hit 7.5 and a third have over 9.5% So let's assume no-one *can* do better than that and stop wasting money on them, after all we've got a war to finance This woman's work should be better known and mandatory IMNSHO http://www.dsolve.com/ snip > This appears to be the paper referred to > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > So let's assume no-one *can* do better than that and stop wasting money > on them, after all we've got a war to finance Easy research plan, get just under 200 newly diagnosed diabetics, give them a meter and finger pricker. Tell then how to use it (apparently as usual not how to use the results) and ask them if they are happy or depressed testing. Guess if they used the same theory on newly diagnosed T1s, (children normally) they would get the same answer about injecting insulin. So would it be a good idea to stop them injecting because it upset them. Researchers are the scum of the earth they give the result that's required by the company (PCT) paying them. Every research program would agree if they were done as they are supposed to be. How about this- it makes me depressed when although NICE says it is up to the doctor to decide if the patient will use the strips to advantage, accountants fund research out of NHS funds to prove NICE wrong and stop supplying strips to all T2s even those who know how to use them. It makes me depressed that no one seems capable within the NHS to teach diabetics how to use the results (that covers T1 and T2s) Oh boy I am so depressed- :P SignatureDaveT T1 Dx 1955 (aged 9) Basal Hypurin Beef Lente Bolus Lispro >It makes me depressed that no one seems capable within the NHS to teach >diabetics how to use the results (that covers T1 and T2s) It's the editorially commented article on the BMJ <fume> - it's open for comments. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >snip >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >normally) they would get the same answer about injecting insulin. So >would it be a good idea to stop them injecting because it upset them. That would decrease the statistics no end if all the Type 1s died. >Researchers are the scum of the earth they give the result that's >required by the company (PCT) paying them. Zing!!! >Every research program would >agree if they were done as they are supposed to be. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >diabetics how to use the results (that covers T1 and T2s) >Oh boy I am so depressed- :P I have genuine (genetic, from the other side of the family) depression, the high BG and rapid changes have been instrumental in making the symptoms worse by an order of magnitude. Getting the BG in line has reduced my bill for venlafaxine. Can I have the money spent on strips instead? Nooooo . . . It's not as if this stuff is rocket science, it's complicated but manageable. It's several orders of magnitude MORE manageable if you test a lot. <sigh> > snip >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > usual not how to use the results) and ask them if they are happy or > depressed testing. I am indeed a newly diagnosed T2 (3 months), and being on diet & exercise only, don't qualify for an NHS tester. So I bought my own and test lots to help me learn how I react to different foods, exercise etc., I am also reading up on the subject. Far from making me depressed, it has given me an added interst and a way of being involved with my own treatment and regime, so I feel a bit more in control. Those who say it leads to depression are probabaly looking at people who will be depressed whatever happens. SignatureDuncan Heenan (Speaking personally) > "DaveT" <justask@private.org> wrote in message > >> On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 10:47:39 GMT, "fastmoggy" <fastmoggy@hotmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > depression are probabaly looking at people who will be depressed > whatever happens. Good on you, Duncan! Your attitude is outstanding! What kind of readings are you getting before you eat in the morning (FBG) and one and two hours after you start eating? Are you recording them to show to your doctor? Take care, good sir. SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >> "DaveT" <justask@private.org> wrote in message >> >> On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 10:47:39 GMT, "fastmoggy" <fastmoggy@hotmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Take care, good sir. It varies, but I am averaging a bit either side of 7 first thing in the mornings, about 8 to 9 1 hour after a meal, and 6 to 7 2 hours after the meal. But it is early days, so I am trying not to jumo to conclusions. I have not shown my doctor the results yet, as I have not had the opportunity, but when I do i will, though i expect to be accused of amateur meddling, as doctors are all taught in medical school that they know best - always. SignatureDuncan Heenan (Speaking personally) > It varies, but I am averaging a bit either side of 7 first thing in the > mornings, about 8 to 9 1 hour after a meal, and 6 to 7 2 hours after the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > amateur meddling, as doctors are all taught in medical school that they > know best - always. With those numbers, when you see your diabetic specialist (Usually the Diabetes Specialist Nurse at your practice), they should be reasonably happy with both the numbers & the fact you're taking control. Knowing the figures gives them more idea as to how to progress with your treatment plan. The GP may have the attitude you say, but most DSNs are pretty approachable within the limits of the practice guidelines. SignatureTciao for Now! John. > "Nick Cramer" <n_cramerSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message > >> "DaveT" <justask@private.org> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > amateur meddling, as doctors are all taught in medical school that they > know best - always. Can you visit a Diabetitian or Endocrinologist, Duncan? SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >> Good on you, Duncan! Your attitude is outstanding! What kind of readings >> are you getting before you eat in the morning (FBG) and one and two hours [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >but when I do i will, though i expect to be accused of amateur meddling, as >doctors are all taught in medical school that they know best - always. Hi Duncan Chiming in a little late and jet-lagged:-) You seem to be my kind of proactive diabetic: not waiting for your health care system, but getting on with the job and doing what is needed. Hang around here after you get things under control - the newbies for 2009 are going to need people like you. I see that you've already been directed to Jennifer's excellent advice at http://jennifer.flyingrat.net/. I'll just add my endorsement of that, the most important advice I read after diagnosis. I've given my own take on it here http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/10/d-day.html but Jennifer's advice was where I started. Amateur meddling is a survival characteristic for type 2 diabetics in my opinion. In a similar vein, a wise previous poster named Old Al considered a little "obsessive" testing a survival trait. I agree with him. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Valderee, Valderah. Or, I love To Go A-wandering... >Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. >d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg >Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. Woo-hoo, he's back :D Nice to see you home safe. Any point reading your travel blog yet? :P Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. >>d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >D&E, 100ug thyroxine >Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 Nah, not yet. Give me a week or two (at least I thawed out in Mexico and Hawaii:-) Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Valderee, Valderah. Or, I love To Go A-wandering... >>>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. >>>d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Nah, not yet. Give me a week or two (at least I thawed out > in Mexico and Hawaii:-) Yeah, we heard Nicky and the gang called up some good weather for your visit :) >>>>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. >>>>d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Yeah, we heard Nicky and the gang called up some good weather for your visit >:) The train ride from London out to Nicky's was like passing through a Christmas card scene in many spots. But we Aussies don't appreciate how damn cold it is until you're wading through the stuff. And the spot of rain we got on the walk after lunch wasn't heavy but felt frozen...brrr!!! But it was worth it. Wonderful duck confit and wonderful company with Nicky, her family, and Trink. Loquacious? Moi? Errm... Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Valderee, Valderah. Or, I love To Go A-wandering... WOW! You all actually met each other in the flesh! Living in the far flung west, about as far as you can get without dropping off Land's End I've never yet met a fellow D in person! Patti Penzance, Cornwall On Levemir and Novorapid + meds for BP and thyroid Join us at www.diabetes-support.org.uk "The friendly forum!" >WOW! You all actually met each other in the flesh! Living in the far >flung west, about as far as you can get without dropping off Land's >End I've never yet met a fellow D in person! I'm in Somerset at the end of May, Patti - only 2 counties away, I'll wave :D Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >WOW! You all actually met each other in the flesh! Living in the far >flung west, about as far as you can get without dropping off Land's >End I've never yet met a fellow D in person! >Patti >Penzance, Cornwall Hi Patti Sorry I missed you. I've met many people from asd and mhd and some Yahoo groups all over the world now (in New Zealand, UK, three Aussie states, six US states). None were axe-murderers, all were interesting and I've yet to meet one I didn't like. Maybe you could make a weekend trip to somewhere central and set up a get-together over coffee or lunch with some of the UK people? Just an idea. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Valderee, Valderah. Or, I love To Go A-wandering... >WOW! You all actually met each other in the flesh! Living in the far >flung west, about as far as you can get without dropping off Land's >End I've never yet met a fellow D in person! I went to Cornwall once but it was full. Actually I used to go there a lot, delivering bikes and other stuff, the roads were brilliant except for those few summer weeks when they were all jammed up. It is like Suffolk and West Wales a suitably long way away from everywhere if you like solitude, not so good if you want visitors though. Of course I didn't know of your existence in those days or I might have dropped by. (St Columb was my favourite, I drove through the town, sounded my horn outside the shop, went round and came back again and parked in the middle of the main drag, by which time all the shop staff had come out to grab my load (which I'd put ready near the tailgate). That was the only access. Everyone else just had to wait . . .) >I went to Cornwall once but it was full. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >to grab my load (which I'd put ready near the tailgate). That was the >only access. Everyone else just had to wait . . .) LOL! I remember before (most) of the A30 was dual carriageway and totally understand the frustration! In the days we owned a hotel I'd have been thrilled we were busy, knackered and probly a walking wreck during the main summer months. These days I'm more likely to be saying "darn tourists!" LOL! Love the St Columb story, it's just SO typical of here. Honestly I am now terrified of motorways, as most of my driving is on narrow lanes and the A30 is the "big scary road!" Yet before we came I commuted up and down the M4, M3 and M25.... Oh, well, lack of stress contributes to keeping the BGs under control! LOL! Seriously, if you're ever this way ping me - I normally look in every other day, or join http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/forum/Blah.pl? and just PM me (Pattidevans there). Patti Penzance, Cornwall On Levemir and Novorapid + meds for BP and thyroid Join us at www.diabetes-support.org.uk "The friendly forum!" >>I went to Cornwall once but it was full. >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >during the main summer months. These days I'm more likely to be >saying "darn tourists!" LOL! Back in the fifties or so my folks went for a holiday in Cornwall, they got as far as the dreaded Exeter Bypass (or it may have been Exeter *before* the bypass) and my old man bowled merrily past this row of parked cars . . . before realising it was a traffic jam . . . >Love the St Columb story, it's just SO typical of here. Honestly I am >now terrified of motorways, as most of my driving is on narrow lanes >and the A30 is the "big scary road!" Yet before we came I commuted up >and down the M4, M3 and M25.... Oh, well, lack of stress contributes >to keeping the BGs under control! LOL! I was mostly driving in the seventies. Recently I watched a programme about the history of the M4, the Welsh parts of which were still being built in those days: in the past 30 years the traffic has increased 1700%! Yup I used to belt up and down the M1 and M6 also, these last few years I got so paranoid driving on the M25 that I've vowed never to go Sahf of the River ever again. Round here the rush hour consists of six cars and a combine harvester . . . >Seriously, if you're ever this way ping me - I normally look in every >other day, or join http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/forum/Blah.pl? >and just PM me (Pattidevans there). Yes I've lurked there a time or three. I'm embarrased to say since moving here I think of going to Narfolk as a major road trip, haven't even gotten as far as Bristol (where I used to live and still have friends) for about a decade. I make the buggers come here instead <G> maybe after my mother's demise I might make a round trip to all the places I used to know, probably a photo safari, but I expect I'd not be happy with the changes over the last 30 - 40 years. > Back in the fifties or so my folks went for a holiday in Cornwall, > they got as far as the dreaded Exeter Bypass (or it may have been > Exeter *before* the bypass) and my old man bowled merrily past this > row of parked cars . . . before realising it was a traffic jam . . . My wife is from Plymouth but all her extended family live down the far end of Cornwall (Helson & Porthleven) so we used to go down there quite a bit. It used to take us more time to get from Plymouth to Porthleven than id did to get from London to Plymouth! > few years I got so paranoid driving on the M25 that I've vowed never > to go Sahf of the River ever again. Round here the rush hour consists > of six cars and a combine harvester . . . Likewise. Even in the towns round here (I live in Swindon) the rush hour is nothing major. I had a job in Farnham in Surrey for about 14 months and I used to sit in a traffic-jam thinking "in Swindon the roads would be clear..". I jacked that job in eventually because we couldn't sell our house in Swindon (too many new builds - no-one wanted a 5-year old house!) and found a job back in Swindon. > even gotten as far as Bristol (where I used to live and still have Brizzle? Not a bad place - some stonking curry houses there.. One of the people I work with is from there and we wind him up about his accent all the time :-) Phil. SignaturePhil Launchbury, IT PHB 'I'm training the bats that live in my cube to juggle mushrooms' >> Back in the fifties or so my folks went for a holiday in Cornwall, >> they got as far as the dreaded Exeter Bypass (or it may have been [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >a bit. It used to take us more time to get from Plymouth to Porthleven >than id did to get from London to Plymouth! One of my favourite runs was with a load of bikes (which weigh next to nothing), starting from Avonmouth I'd stop for the best bacon sarnie in the country and coffee made with milk (those were the days <sigh>) in Mont's Cafe on the old road near Okehampton, diesel up in Plympton and fly right down to Helston and Hayle, dropping off bikes on the way back and stopping for the night in Newquay or somewhere smaller and funkier. One of my least favourite runs was the same thing in midsummer . . . >> few years I got so paranoid driving on the M25 that I've vowed never >> to go Sahf of the River ever again. Round here the rush hour consists [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >months and I used to sit in a traffic-jam thinking "in Swindon the >roads would be clear..". They were all stuck on the M4 Yes somewhere around Alton was where the traffic died down when I used to travel out from Surrey and I could unclamp my white knuckles from the wheel >I jacked that job in eventually because we couldn't sell our house in >Swindon (too many new builds - no-one wanted a 5-year old house!) and >found a job back in Swindon. Put your shoes on and get out! Well it could be worse, you could have been stuck in Basingstoke! >> even gotten as far as Bristol (where I used to live and still have > >Brizzle? Not a bad place - some stonking curry houses there.. > >One of the people I work with is from there and we wind him up about >his accent all the time :-) Strangely I was talking to a Bristolian today. she works in one of the local shops and some of her family's from Cornwall. This year like me she's making them come visit her. Her mother is diabetic and recently had a stonking hypo which left her in Casualty, they were afraid she'd had brain damage at first. She's started low carbing to lose weight as she's prediabetic herself and it's not impossible her mother ate too few carbs for her usual insulin dose so she was feeling a tad guilty, but judging by the speed and depth of the hypo I suspect something else went wrong, maybe she hit a vein with her bolus? >>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. >>d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg >>Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. > >Woo-hoo, he's back :D Nice to see you home safe. Any point reading >your travel blog yet? :P What she said . . . >> snip >>> >>> This appears to be the paper referred to >>> >>> http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/bmj.39534.571644.BEv1?rss=1 snip > I am indeed a newly diagnosed T2 (3 months), and being on diet & > exercise only, don't qualify for an NHS tester. So I bought my own and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > leads to depression are probabaly looking at people who will be > depressed whatever happens. Exactly what I would expect to hear from someone in control of his diabetes. If every diabetic was taught how to control their diabetes and they got rid of the accountants and (more importantly) lawyers to pay for it although many may not test (for whatever reason) many would and there is no feeling that compares to being in control or knowing how to be in control compared to depending on a doctor using a (at best) 6 monthly test to control them. Also good or bad numbers do not prove how well a diabetic is in control, it only shows how good or bad the advice he/she has been given is. SWome will never test so they are the ones to target when stopping scripts but for those that are trying they deserve to be funded and looked after. SignatureDaveT T1 Dx 1955 (aged 9) Basal Hypurin Beef Lente Bolus Lispro >>> snip >>>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >will never test so they are the ones to target when stopping scripts but >for those that are trying they deserve to be funded and looked after. Except in the Socialist Paradise where the good should be cut down to the abilities of the bad. (yes of course I'm being sarcastic, IMO Blair was several steps to the right of Major and Brown isn't far behind, but alhtough Cameron is busy claiming to be a socialist I have no illusions that when he's elected the Old Guard won't reemerge and take command) With your long experience, how do you see things actually changing over the years? I mean, in theory we have Lantus, Levemir, Humalog, Novolog, Byetta, Actos and Avandia in addition to most of the pre-existing drugs and insulins, even animal insulin is still available IF you can tweak enough people to get it. And meters are now more accurate and affordable than ever. Yet we are encouraged to eat all the wrong stuff, not to test, and I bet there are still new Type 1s being put on Mixturd twice a day and told only to test their FBG once a week . . . >>>> snip >>>>> >>>>> This appears to be the paper referred to >>>>> >>>>> http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/bmj.39534.571644.BEv1?rss=1 snip > Except in the Socialist Paradise where the good should be cut down to > the abilities of the bad. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > claiming to be a socialist I have no illusions that when he's elected > the Old Guard won't reemerge and take command) Blair did bring in the rights for diabetics to look after their own diabetes and it has not been withdrawn yet although the (right wing) PCTs are trying to worm their way round it. > With your long experience, how do you see things actually changing over > the years? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > people to get it. And meters are now more accurate and affordable than > ever. It seems each of the GM insulin's have had problems, there are even now questions to the long term use of the 2 analogues. There is just not the capabilities to provide animal insulin in the quantity's needed so we are stuck with GM insulin. IMO the blood test meter was and is the only modern invention to be of any use to a diabetic (T1 & T2). If half the money that is wasted on the present research was spent on finding a cheap constant non intrusive meter that did not need strips the present fight with the PCTs would not have got off the ground. If Diabetes UK instead of sucking up to the manufacturers (like Pfiser with the Exubra) paid for the research to make such a meter and got a reasonable firm to make it in say China there would be no manufacturers research to cover so it could be cheap enough to be used by all diabetics, even the newly diagnosed. Bet the regulars are sick of me saying that but some day DUK may just get the message passed on to them. > Yet we are encouraged to eat all the wrong stuff, not to test, and I bet > there are still new Type 1s being put on Mixturd twice a day and told > only to test their FBG once a week . . . Dietitians - well we all learnt how to say yes, then go and do something different when we were children so this time it will probably save your life not get you into more trouble like when you were a child. Mixturd is one of the biggest cons the insulin manufacturers have ever come up with. Even when I was on mixed insulin I found it much easier to give each insulin separately. I read something recently that astounded me, they have just worked out that when insulin is injected it forms a ball so if you split the injection into many small amounts making smaller balls there is more contact with the skin so the insulin is absorbed quicker. I was told that 45+ years ago. I wonder how much that research cost and how big a single ball of mixturd is compared with giving it separately. SignatureDaveT T1 Dx 1955 (aged 9) Basal Hypurin Beef Lente Bolus Lispro >>>>> snip >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >diabetes and it has not been withdrawn yet although the (right wing) PCTs >are trying to worm their way round it. See later post >> With your long experience, how do you see things actually changing over >> the years? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >capabilities to provide animal insulin in the quantity's needed so we are >stuck with GM insulin. One wonders where all the pancreases go now, Happy Meals? Yes that's my point, there *should* by now be a wider choice but in the Real World a New Thing replaces the old one which is then taken off the market as no longer profitable enough. I've seen a few other drugs go that way which is tough titty for certain individuals for whom they were the only thing that worked. :( >IMO the blood test meter was and is the only modern invention to be of >any use to a diabetic (T1 & T2). If half the money that is wasted on the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >are sick of me saying that but some day DUK may just get the message >passed on to them. Can we have an AMEN? But then DUK like the ADA is basically a marketing organisation, otherwise they'd get no funding. Even if the Chinese or Indians produced a cheap World Meter (as well they might if Diabetes takes off there like it appears to be doing) it would simply be blocked from our market. Type Approval for vehicles is bad enough, I knw someone who imported a John Deere tractor from elsewhere at two thirds the UK price and was forbidden to use it until he'd cut off the cab step and reattached it six inches lower, moved the toolbox from one side to the other and a bunch of pettifogging changes which were purely cosmetic and had no bearing on its functionality. For medical kit they'd have to jump through even more hoops. >> Yet we are encouraged to eat all the wrong stuff, not to test, and I bet >> there are still new Type 1s being put on Mixturd twice a day and told [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >different when we were children so this time it will probably save your >life not get you into more trouble like when you were a child. <G> >Mixturd is one of the biggest cons the insulin manufacturers have ever >come up with. Even when I was on mixed insulin I found it much easier to >give each insulin separately. Yes what I meant by my crack about it not being rocket science was that for anyone who can handle basal/bolus the results are far better than with the old regimes, while twice a day fixed injections of mixed insulin may be better than nothing for people who can't handle carb counting, dose and diet adjustments - yet that's what appears to be pushed on everyone and some folks have real difficulty changing to regimes which they could undoubtedly work better. The Type 2 equivalent of course is being told to eat half a kilo of starch a day and on no account test your BG. Well for a few that may be an actual improvement on what went before, but why does that mean the rest of us should be dragged down to their level if we can show we are prepared to put the work in by testing and adjusting our diet/exercise regime? It's like having a big button whose sole function is to illuminate a notice saying "DO NOT PRESS THIS BUTTON"and paying consultants £30 000 plus expenses to have it installed >I read something recently that astounded me, they have just worked out >that when insulin is injected it forms a ball so if you split the >injection into many small amounts making smaller balls there is more >contact with the skin so the insulin is absorbed quicker. I was told that >45+ years ago. I wonder how much that research cost and how big a single >ball of mixturd is compared with giving it separately. Even B*rnstein had worked that out, no? Next weeks headlines "Researchers have just demonstrated that the world is in fact round, and there are NO turtles propping it up" >I am indeed a newly diagnosed T2 (3 months), and being on diet & exercise >only, don't qualify for an NHS tester. So I bought my own and test lots to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >so I feel a bit more in control. Those who say it leads to depression are >probabaly looking at people who will be depressed whatever happens. Very often in these studies they ask people to test without using the results to change anything. I think that constantly hitting 15+ and not knowing what to do about it would probably depress me too... That's where Jennifer's test,test,test advice is so great, because it gives you the tools to both gain and use knowledge about your own condition. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >That's where Jennifer's test,test,test advice is so great, because it >gives you the tools to both gain and use knowledge about your own >condition. Should've said - http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm Took me a while to get all my numbers inside the normal range - but watching the slope of the graph was very motivating. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >I am indeed a newly diagnosed T2 (3 months), and being on diet & exercise >only, don't qualify for an NHS tester. So I bought my own and test lots to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >so I feel a bit more in control. Those who say it leads to depression are >probabaly looking at people who will be depressed whatever happens. There speaks someone with the right attitude! I see you've already been given Jennifer's Test Test Test advice, I'd recommend you start testing around 1 hour postprandial rather than the 2 hours usually recommended: makes it easier to see what spikes you, which makes it easier to see what to eliminate (and what to add) to your diet. Good things http://www.diabetic-talk.org/freeveggies.htm Bad things most everything the dietician tells you to eat more of <sigh> >This appears to be the paper referred to > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >http://www.dsolve.com/ I so agree! Patti Penzance, Cornwall On Levemir and Novorapid + meds for BP and thyroid Join us at www.diabetes-support.org.uk "The friendly forum!" >>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7062473.stm >> >>Look at the A1cs they quote for God's sake, 83% of diabetics don't >>even hit 7.5 and a third have over 9.5% Just wondered.. will i still be able to worry about possible complications when my bits fall off ? 7.5% ?? My nurse quoted that figure to me and i was shocked then too! This is the figure where our PCT here start to throw all them expensive drugs at you. I was allot happier before the withdrawal orf my strips and a nice 1ac of 5.2-5.6 Now without testing 6.1 after only one year. Oh well test in June.... >>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7062473.stm >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > of 5.2-5.6 Now without testing 6.1 after only one year. Oh well test in > June.... This is a clear game of statistics and money. The first point is that the typical drug used, Metformin, is a really cheap generic. Expect the NHS to be driving the price paid down as volumes go up. HbA1c test is also cheap. Together, they are significantly less expensive than a worthwhile number of strips. Now take the entire population and with a few measurements figures for non-diabetics are in the 4 - 5.5% range, AIUI. Skewed by adding in the diabetic population would probably take it for the *whole* population perhaps to around 6-6.5% as an average. Next take just the diabetic population for which there are larger number of measurements and we know from the figures above and our own experiences that the range goes from the non-diabetic level up to 10% or probably more. Taking that range, and excluding non diabetics and now all of a sudden 7.5% is falling towards the lower end of the weighted range. Finally, as a healthcare system, decide on numbers and percentages of diabetic patients that you believe can be achieved at typical GP surgeries for the handout of a reward. Conveniently this figure is quite close to 7.5% (IIRC 7.3% is the current waterline). The point is that this is formulaic medicine and flow charts are the order of the day rather than the needs of the individual. >>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7062473.stm >>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >This is a clear game of statistics and money. The first point is >that the typical drug used, Metformin, is a really cheap generic. Still not available here unless your A1c is over 7.5 (AFAICR that's the cutoff for "treatment") >Expect the NHS to be driving the price paid down as volumes go up. >HbA1c test is also cheap. Also can be ineffective, I got a 5.3 with postprandials running between 11.5 and 3.5 (reactive hypoglycemia) and the same A1c with most tests running between 4 - 6. Only the tests (at my own expense) showed the problem. >Together, they are significantly less expensive than a worthwhile >number of strips. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >The point is that this is formulaic medicine and flow charts are the >order of the day rather than the needs of the individual. Yes seen the same sort of management theories in industry. It didn't work there either but the graphs looked pretty. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Medication_Algorithm_Project this originated from work with cows in feedlots >>This appears to be the paper referred to >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >I so agree! Yes thanks for introducing me/us to her paper and this site. And the beauty of it is, she is a Real Doctor (up until her contract fails to be renewed) so her work passes the Kurt Seal Of Approval <G> >The BBC have just done nothing for my blood pressure by saving that >the NHS could save tons of money by "not encouraging Type 2s to test" [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Nicky (who would prefer to KNOW what her bg is so she can do something >about it, thankyouverymuch!) Yes here we go again Finding out what was *actually* happening was a major liberating experience for me, especially since I could actually *do* something about it thanks to Test Test Test Being fobbed off with bollocks, blame and excuses did far worse things to my state of mind Where's that old Kaiser Permanente paper http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band93/b93-4.html AFAICR the paper itself is not available FOC but it's referred here. Abstract only is available free from various sources. If Kaiser believe monitoring is cost effective it has to be true (though "intensive" is only three times a day) > The BBC have just done nothing for my blood pressure Sorry in advance for this but i just couldn't stop laughing at this thought all day.. Think of nutter chung then think on this.... 'The BBC are the Sock puppets of the government'! I think that about sums today's BBC news on the subject Now where's that nice gym at £40 an hour? |
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