Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / December 2007

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Mendosa Blog - Eat Fat, Grow Thin

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Alan S - 03 Dec 2007 06:02 GMT
David Mendosa has just posted an interesting blog article on
low-carb diets. Well worth reading.

http://www.healthcentral.com/diabetes/c/17/17226/eat-fat-grow-thin/3/

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Nicky - 03 Dec 2007 12:44 GMT
>David Mendosa has just posted an interesting blog article on
>low-carb diets. Well worth reading.
>
>http://www.healthcentral.com/diabetes/c/17/17226/eat-fat-grow-thin/3/

Specifically, with an explanation (and accessible reference) for why
you can eat higher-fat on low carb and not put on weight.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
Peter C - 03 Dec 2007 20:43 GMT
>>David Mendosa has just posted an interesting blog article on
>>low-carb diets. Well worth reading.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Specifically, with an explanation (and accessible reference) for why
> you can eat higher-fat on low carb and not put on weight.

But why does Mendosa think that eating low carb and higher fat will lead to
weight loss when he quotes Bernstein as demonstrating the opposite -
increasing fats by 900 calories a day had NO effect on weight.
And what effect will increasing fats have on lipids ?
Shouldn't both Bernstein and Mendosa temper their claims by referring to
"good fats" instead of "fats" in general ?
Alan S - 03 Dec 2007 21:53 GMT
>>>David Mendosa has just posted an interesting blog article on
>>>low-carb diets. Well worth reading.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>increasing fats by 900 calories a day had NO effect on weight.
>And what effect will increasing fats have on lipids ?

The paper that Mendosa refers to:
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/reprint/49/4/640
"Increase in Fat Oxidation on a High-Fat
Diet Is Accompanied by an Increase in
Triglyceride-Derived Fatty Acid Oxidation"

Includes this detail on
"Diets . The low-fat diets consisted of 30% energy as fat,
55% energy as carbohydrate, and 15% energy as protein. The
high-fat diets consisted of 60% energy as fat, 25% energy as
carbohydrate, and 15% energy as protein. Before the
experiment, subjects filled out a 3-day food intake record
to estimate habitual dietary intake. Metabolizable energy
intake and macronutrient composition of the diet was
calculated using the Dutch food composition table (13). On
days 1 and 2 and the first part of day 3, a low-fat diet for
consumption at home was provided. Subjects were given a
fixed amount of food (based on their food intake record) and
ad libitum access to low-fat snacks. On the evening of day
3, subjects consumed their dinner and evening snack (either
low- or high-fat) in the respiration chamber. In the LF and
HF treatment, energy intake for dinner and evening snack was
fixed at 35% and 10% of estimated daily energy expenditure
(1.7 · basic metabolic rate based on the Harris and Benedict
equations [14]). In the HF1+EX treatment, the evening snack
had an energy content equal to energy expended during the
exercise test. On day 4, subjects were given an amount of
energy equal to 1.55 times the sleeping metabolic rate, as
measured during the preceding night. In a previous study, we
showed that with a comparable activity protocol used in the
chamber, a physical activity index of 1.58 was reached (4).
Subjects were asked not to consume any products with a high
abundance of 1 3C (carbohydrates derived from C4 plants like
corn and sugar cane) 1 week before and during the entire
experimental period."

There is an interesting Table 4 which compares the seven
subjects at the start of each phase of the study. If we make
the assumption that the phases were consecutive (I accept
that may be a false assumption although it appears valid
from the discussion) then the start points after the Low-fat
phase were:

Glucose (mmol/l) 5.10 ± 0.23
Insulin (µU/ml) 5.5 ± 2.0
Triglycerides (µmol/l) 556 ± 66
Fatty acids (µmol/l)  401 ± 64

A progressive improvement after each phase is noticeable,
but most improvement occurred after the high fat stages.
The start point after two of the high fat phases, prior to
the final phase were:

Glucose (mmol/l) 4.84 ± 0.13
Insulin (µU/ml) 3.5 ± 0.5
Triglycerides (µmol/l) 454 ± 55
Fatty acids (µmol/l)  385 ± 50

Possibly that answers your question "what effect will
increasing fats have on lipids?", at least partially.
Triglycerides and Fatty Acids went down, not up.

>Shouldn't both Bernstein and Mendosa temper their claims by referring to
>"good fats" instead of "fats" in general ?

Ask them. Mendosa has a section for comments on the blog. He
is quite approachable. I'll watch for your comment.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Peter C - 03 Dec 2007 23:11 GMT
> The paper that Mendosa refers to:http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/reprint/49/4/640
> "Increase in Fat Oxidation on a High-Fat
> Diet Is Accompanied by an Increase in
> Triglyceride-Derived Fatty Acid Oxidation"

involved only SEVEN healthy non-obese males.
Difficult to place much faith in such a miniscule study.
And of course the seven just men were healthy - diabetics are by
definition unhealthy with their metabolisms screwed up already.
Nicky - 04 Dec 2007 08:35 GMT
>> The paper that Mendosa refers to:http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/reprint/49/4/640
>> "Increase in Fat Oxidation on a High-Fat
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>And of course the seven just men were healthy - diabetics are by
>definition unhealthy with their metabolisms screwed up already.

Taubes is quoting plenty of studies showing exactly this effect.
Unfortunately, most of this research was done in the 40s and 50s -
you'd need access to a medical library, not the Internet, to chase it
down.

Or find a nurse or doctor who were practicing in the early 70s, when
dietary advice flipped to low fat in this country. There's plenty of
first-hand experience of low carb working just fine.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
Peter C - 04 Dec 2007 20:36 GMT
> Taubes is quoting plenty of studies showing exactly this effect.
> Unfortunately, most of this research was done in the 40s and 50s -

..and unfortuantely Taubes left out all the research that disagreed with his
big idea ...
http://www.atkinsexposed.org/atkins/105/Center_for_Science_in_the_Public_Interest.htm
Nicky - 04 Dec 2007 22:38 GMT
>> Taubes is quoting plenty of studies showing exactly this effect.
>> Unfortunately, most of this research was done in the 40s and 50s -
>
>..and unfortuantely Taubes left out all the research that disagreed with his
>big idea ...

Don;t you think that might be redressing the balance just a teensy
bit? - and there's plenty of references for low-fat studies in his
book, so you could make your mind up yourself.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
Nicky - 03 Dec 2007 22:22 GMT
>But why does Mendosa think that eating low carb and higher fat will lead to
>weight loss when he quotes Bernstein as demonstrating the opposite -
>increasing fats by 900 calories a day had NO effect on weight.

Bernstein's people were a) on insulin and b) trying to gain weight.
Excess insulin acts by storing excess carbs as fat, and preventing fat
stores in the body being burnt because it prepares cells to burn
glucose, not fatty acids. Bernstein's experiment shows that the
addition of fats - a whopping 900 extra calories a day - has no effect
on weight in the presence of insulin.

Mendosa's interest is that he low-spikes and high exercises; he
doesn't have much excess insulin or insulin resistance. By eating a
higher fat diet, he can increase the use his body makes of fatty acids
because his levels of insulin-sensitive lipase will go up. He should
be using fat from stores, and therefore lose weight.

>And what effect will increasing fats have on lipids ?

It will improve the lipid profile from a diet containing carbs in
greater than ketosis quantities, because all the regulating mechanisms
will be able to function without those pesky carbs. Specifically,
trigs should plummet, because there will be insufficient glucose
burning to form the basis of the tri-glyceride molecule.

>Shouldn't both Bernstein and Mendosa temper their claims by referring to
>"good fats" instead of "fats" in general ?

What do you think a good fat is?

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.