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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2007

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Another drug we won't be allowed, then........

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Phil - 08 May 2007 08:52 GMT
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/08/ndiabetes108.xml

Interesting. I've always had a soft spot for Gila monsters.

Phil
Ozgirl - 08 May 2007 11:17 GMT
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/08/ndiabetes108
.xml

> Interesting. I've always had a soft spot for Gila monsters.
>
> Phil

Why won't you be allowed?
alwynhughes - 08 May 2007 11:32 GMT
I think he is working on the basis that we have an organisation called NICE
(it isn't!) in the UK which decides if there is any value in using new drugs
to treat patients. This is the same body who concluded that most Type 2's
didn't need to monitor frequently!

R

> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/08/ndiabetes108
> .xml
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Why won't you be allowed?
Ozgirl - 08 May 2007 12:15 GMT
> I think he is working on the basis that we have an organisation called NICE
> (it isn't!) in the UK which decides if there is any value in using new drugs
> to treat patients. This is the same body who concluded that most Type 2's
> didn't need to monitor frequently!

Aaaah. Thanks.
Flying Rat - 08 May 2007 11:30 GMT
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/08/ndiabetes108.xml
>
> Interesting. I've always had a soft spot for Gila monsters.
>
> Phil

why not?

The other references I've seen to exenatide (Byetta) seem to indicate it
will be in a grouping of drugs which are not to be prescribed by GPs,
but rather to be initiated by endocrinology consultants.

In addition:
"CONCLUSIONS: Based on the findings of a recent clinical trial, long-
term projections indicated that exenatide is likely to be associated
with improvement in life expectancy and quality-adjusted life expectancy
compared to insulin glargine. The results from this modelling analysis
suggest that that exenatide is likely to represent good value for money
by generally accepted standards in the UK setting in individuals with
type 2 diabetes inadequately controlled on oral therapy."

So exenatide represents both quantifiable improvements in T2 care as
well as being cost effective within the NHS supply chain.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?
cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=17355742

Ratty
Peter C - 08 May 2007 20:17 GMT
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/08/ndiab...
>
> Interesting. I've always had a soft spot for Gila monsters.
>
> Phil

I didn't realise Byetta acted in the same way as a sulf ...
"Exenatide, which works by stimulating the pancreas to produce more
insulin in response to raised blood sugar,"

And this quote from the article seems to fly in the face of the
hyperinsulinemia created by insulin resistance ...
"In healthy humans, GLP-1 triggers the production of insulin in the
pancreas when blood sugar levels get too high. In those with Type 2
diabetes the signal to make more insulin is weak or missing."
Nicky - 08 May 2007 23:06 GMT
>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/08/ndiab...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>"Exenatide, which works by stimulating the pancreas to produce more
>insulin in response to raised blood sugar,"

Doesn't it mimic one of the gut incretin hormones (GLP-1, from memory,
and Januvia's a DPP inhibitor, where DPP's the thing that destroys
GLP?), so it only reacts to digested glucose, not liver production -
more sensitive and reactive than a sulf. Not to mention that in mouse
trials, the little beggars grew some beta cells back...

>"In healthy humans, GLP-1 triggers the production of insulin in the
>pancreas when blood sugar levels get too high. In those with Type 2
>diabetes the signal to make more insulin is weak or missing."

Doh! I really ought to read the whole of a piece before replying...  I
think the last sentence is crap. We can make the stuff; the biggest
problem is that we don't make it fast enough to store any, so we don't
have a rush of phase 1 insulin. Then we don't have enough beta cell
mass to make more quickly, and we thrash what's left keeping up,
creating a vicious cycle.

Reading Byetta users' stories, an important feature seems to be loss
of appetite. I'm not sure if that's because of induced nausea, or
because it does something with the leptin/ghrelin cycle too... but for
people who can cope with the nausea, it looks a very cool drug, with
lots of weight loss presumably dropping IR really well, helping
endogenous insulin along. David Mendosa's positively euphoric about
it. The next release looks like it'll be in pill form, too, for those
who don't fancy injections.

If it ever gets down off the rarefied heights of being prescribed only
if you've got poor control on 2+ diabetic drugs, I'd fancy the stuff
myself. Or Januvia, I'm not fussy.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.5%  BMI 25
Nicky - 08 May 2007 22:55 GMT
>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/08/ndiabetes108.xml
>
>Interesting. I've always had a soft spot for Gila monsters.

Januvia was released either last Thursday, or this Thursday, I can't
remember which - DUK asked me to be prepared for a so far deafening
lack of media interest : )

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.5%  BMI 25
Lil - 09 May 2007 03:18 GMT
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/08/ndiabetes108.xml
>
> Interesting. I've always had a soft spot for Gila monsters.
>
> Phil

Thought I'd delurk on this one.  Im in the US, and with a new insurance
carrier was able to get a prescription for Byetta from a new internal
medicine doctor.  My old HMO would not allow their physicians to even
prescribe it for a patient willing to pay full price (and it is pricey)

I'd done a lot of reading about it, and it sounded just the thing, users
raving about weight loss, great blood levels, not having a lick of
trouble.  I liked especially the part about the mice regrowing beta
cells, as one could hope for a similar effect in the human.

I found the experience interesting.   My physician had a sample pen so I
was out nothing, except the cost of needles (try getting those without a
prescription).  

First injection hit me immediately with one of the worst headaches I've
had in my life and waves of nausea.  I weathered it, and for about 6
days, did 2 shots a day.    

It does take away the appetite.   It put me into that same stuffed state
as when one's stomach does not empty and it was for hours and hours.  
It bordered on painful.  And there was always a low grade of nausea in
the background, but not to the point of not continuing.

I came down with a really bad cold, and that on top of the Byetta was
just too much so I discontinued.

What I also noted was that my readings went UP.   Way up, with no change
in the amount of carb eaten (usually under 20 a meal).  Lost no weight,
even with only one small meal (you really cannot or will not eat a large
meal more that a couple of times on this med due to the fullness factor
unless you like carrying around the same meal for 8 hours) and a morning
low carb tiny bit o protein snack.

I suspect I am not one of the ones this works for, but then again, I was
also coming down with that nasty cold.   My physician is willing to let
me have another pen to try again, and I am considering it.

I see my doctor again in 2 days, and might see if she has samples of
Januvia, which is similar in effect (she says) but no needle (and
refrigeration, which I read Amlyn is now saying is not so necessary for
Byetta as they thought).   I would be interested in testing, but only
with samples.   It is as expensive as Byetta here, and even the great
insurance I have right now will not pay more than 30 percent of the cost
of new and expensive drugs.

It would be interesting to compare.

L.
 
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