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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / October 2003

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Delurking with some bad news

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John Williamson - 17 Sep 2003 08:37 GMT
The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at
home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover.

Diagnosed at age 17, type 1, waiting for transplant after kidney failure
earlier this year, he lived in South Africa.

As he was the one who pointed me here for help, I thought you all ought
to know.

Sid's Big Brother.

John

Type 2 since late 2001 (ish)

 (johnwilliamson@btinternet.com)
Emma - 17 Sep 2003 08:59 GMT
John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> writes
>The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at
>home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover.

That is such sad news.

Thank you for taking the time to tell us.

My condolences to you and your family. :-(

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Flying Rat - 17 Sep 2003 12:24 GMT
John Williamson said this...
> The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at
> home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>   (johnwilliamson@btinternet.com)

Oh Christ...

I was wondering where he'd got to. I thought he might have been lucky
and got a donor, and that's why he hadn't been posting lately.

You have my condolences for all the family.

Ratty
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John Williamson - 17 Sep 2003 12:49 GMT
> John Williamson said this...
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Ratty

Unfortunately no donor, but he'd been feeling rough (understandably) for
a while, so he hadn't been posting a lot.

He was actually quite positive recently, after a change of centre for
dialysis, unfortunately, he lived alone.

Thanks for the replies.

John.
sandy - 17 Sep 2003 14:01 GMT
Words cannot express the sorrow I feel for you and your family, I will miss
sid as will others deepest sympathy  with respect sandy
> The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at
> home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>   (johnwilliamson@btinternet.com)
Turner's Babe - 17 Sep 2003 14:36 GMT
> Words cannot express the sorrow I feel for you and your family, I will miss
> sid as will others deepest sympathy  with respect sandy
----------

Oh no, that's awful news.  Poor Sid.  I just don't know what to say........

Sending you all the love and support in the world - things like that are devestating......

Jackie T
Turner's Babe - 17 Sep 2003 14:40 GMT
Would it be okay to leave his page up on the website, but let everyone know what has happened?
I think he still needs his place on the site as he was a big part of our group for a while.
Just out of respect.

Jackie T
Emma - 17 Sep 2003 14:59 GMT
Turner's Babe <turnersbabeMYBIG@SISTERPLEASEukonline.co.ukNOW> writes
>Would it be okay to leave his page up on the website, but let everyone know what
>has happened?
>I think he still needs his place on the site as he was a big part of our group
>for a while.
>Just out of respect.

I think that's a great idea Jackie - a sort of cyber memorial!

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Tiger Lily - 17 Sep 2003 15:22 GMT
oh, i do hope that we are allowed to continue to remember our friends

on the other group asd, we had memorial pages for those that left..... until
the web master had a HD failure.... sigh...... and the host suddenly
disappeared

the loss of the memorial pages is something irreplaceable..... and we will
always regret it...... now we have a couple of back ups to the web page as
well

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> Would it be okay to leave his page up on the website, but let everyone know what has happened?
> I think he still needs his place on the site as he was a big part of our group for a while.
> Just out of respect.
>
> Jackie T
Turner's Babe - 17 Sep 2003 15:56 GMT
> oh, i do hope that we are allowed to continue to remember our friends
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> always regret it...... now we have a couple of back ups to the web page as
> well

I have all the info logged on a remote server, so hopefully no hd failure will affect it.

I've added a note to Sid's page - hopefully you will all agree with it.  I'm absolutely gutted -
poor Sid - it's hard to know what to say......
Emma - 17 Sep 2003 16:17 GMT
Turner's Babe <turnersbabeMYBIG@SISTERPLEASEukonline.co.ukNOW> writes
>I've added a note to Sid's page - hopefully you will all agree with it.  

Classily done as always dear Webmistress. :-)

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Turner's Babe - 17 Sep 2003 17:56 GMT
> Turner's Babe <turnersbabeMYBIG@SISTERPLEASEukonline.co.ukNOW> writes
> >I've added a note to Sid's page - hopefully you will all agree with it.
>
> Classily done as always dear Webmistress. :-)

Just said what I thought we all felt.

Jackie T
John Williamson - 17 Sep 2003 17:13 GMT
> Would it be okay to leave his page up on the website, but let everyone know what has happened?
> I think he still needs his place on the site as he was a big part of our group for a while.
> Just out of respect.
>
> Jackie T

Absolutely.

It's nice to know he is/was so well regarded.

John & the rest of the family.

johnwilliamson@btinternet.com
John Williamson - 17 Sep 2003 17:16 GMT
>> Would it be okay to leave his page up on the website, but let everyone
>> know what has happened?
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> John & the rest of the family.

Just another note. I will forward copies to all our non-connected
members, if nobody minds.

John

johnwilliamson@btinternet.com
Turner's Babe - 17 Sep 2003 17:54 GMT
> > Absolutely.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> johnwilliamson@btinternet.com

Of course no one would mind John.

Jackie T
Flying Rat - 17 Sep 2003 23:21 GMT
John Williamson said this...
> Absolutely.
>
> It's nice to know he is/was so well regarded.

Well regarded?

Sid was part of the furniture of this group. Like I said, I thought he'd
gone a bit quiet because he may have got lucky with the transplant.

I have felt like sh.t all day today, only because I didn't get the
chance to say goodbye and hopefully will have to wait a while until we
eventually get to say hello.

Sid was a decent bloke, and a well regarded poster in these parts.
Losing him is a loss for everyone as he was part of the whole which is
ASDUK.

Another good soldier in the diabetes war, and we will remember him as
such.

Ratty
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Flying Rat - 17 Sep 2003 23:15 GMT
Turner's Babe said this...
> Would it be okay to leave his page up on the website, but let everyone know what has happened?
> I think he still needs his place on the site as he was a big part of our group for a while.
> Just out of respect.

Please do Jackie.

Sid is a fallen comrade in the war we all fight. Let's not forget him.

Ratty

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Tiger Lily - 17 Sep 2003 14:49 GMT
John, i'm so sorry to hear about your loss of your brother

come back to the group for support, or come to chat if you need support

{{{{{{BIG HUGS}}}}}}}
kate

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"John Williamson" <> wrote in message .com...

> The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at
> home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Type 2 since late 2001 (ish)
Al Hardy - 17 Sep 2003 16:02 GMT
> The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at
> home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>   (johnwilliamson@btinternet.com)

Aah, I am sorry to hear that, John. Deepest sympathy and condolences from my
heart.

Al.
Wnella - 17 Sep 2003 21:10 GMT
> snipped <

Sad news, my deepest condolences to you & your family
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Wnella

Beav - 17 Sep 2003 22:24 GMT
> The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at
> home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> As he was the one who pointed me here for help, I thought you all ought
> to know.

Sad news indeed John, but thanks for thinking to let us know.

Condolences of course.

Beav
Fred Fragger - 17 Sep 2003 22:52 GMT
> > The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at
> > home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> > As he was the one who pointed me here for help, I thought you all ought
> > to know.

Sorry to hear the news John. My condolences to you and the rest of Sid's
family

Fred
Flying Rat - 17 Sep 2003 23:59 GMT
Beav said this...
> Sad news indeed John, but thanks for thinking to let us know.
>
> Condolences of course.

Beav

As much as I bat for the whole team it's what people like Sid have to go
through which gives me the total mindfuck.

He has told us at length about his battles to even get decent insulin.

I still have that sh.t thought at the back of my mind....if he was on
beef would he still be with us........? Or even Lantus?

One day we will all meet up and laugh at this all. Until then I still
feel shitty about this....

Ratty
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sandy - 18 Sep 2003 09:30 GMT
Hi Roy, Sandy here ,we are all sorry to here about Sid and that we lost
him,but its not for you to bang yourself about by wondering about his meds,
and if he had did this or that,Sid me and hippo all came along at the same
time with the likes of Steph and Fred and others, I remember that you were
the first guy  to give me advice when i went to the asd group about my legs
wernt working, I don't suppose you will remember this, but your contact
really helped, and so did your idea of the asduk group.We've chatted on the
group before about depression and the likes mate don't you slip now, you and
the others have gave hope to the newbies, who leave the surgery for the
first time after being told diabetes, f.ck mate you know what I mean,I
thought , that's it my teas out and I'm off at plumpton , but  as you helped
me through it,  we can all get through it. Your right in the aspect that med
differ through the world as does medical support and information, but we owe
it to every diabetic in the world to keep pushing and learning, to the non
diabetic world diabetes is just another f.cking word that don't mean sh.t,
but to us its life or death, Sid gave it a go, they way he wanted, it was a
decent go and  were all giving it a go, someday we may all meet again were
we don't need to shove meds into our bodies, who knows ,keep your sh.t tight
mate and keep going and helping others less well informed all the best
Sandy. ps I know this wont come out the way I mean it but here goes.

> Beav said this...
> > Sad news indeed John, but thanks for thinking to let us know.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Ratty
Bob - 18 Sep 2003 21:13 GMT
> ps I know this wont come out the way I mean it but here goes.

I just have to tell you that your message moved me [almost to tears].

I've kind of given myself 5 years or so max, but reading the message I get
the feeling that you old timers must see my type come and go rather too
regularly.

Keep up the fight guys.  Stength.

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Bob
New Dx 4/4/2003, Insulatard & NovoRapid

sandy - 19 Sep 2003 09:21 GMT
One day at a time Bob and keep bloody fighting it,keep the levels down and
look after yourself and most of all throw the calander out the window and
take it as it comes,regards sandy

> > ps I know this wont come out the way I mean it but here goes.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Keep up the fight guys.  Stength.
Flying Rat - 18 Sep 2003 21:42 GMT
sandy said this...
> Hi Roy, Sandy here ,we are all sorry to here about Sid and that we lost
> him,but its not for you to bang yourself about by wondering about his meds,
> and if he had did this or that

<snipped>

Depressed? Me? No chance.

I don't get depressed, I get angry and try to do something constructive
instead.

Maybe if Diabetes UK and the like weren't so up-the-arse of the NHS and
drug companies we might be getting some decent service. And that applies
everywhere. I occasionally make a health-political post in ASD, and the
silence is deafening.

I don't believe any of us can afford to sit on the fence. Making fluffy
"well done!" posts on a1c results might have some use, but it's making
noise and grabbing politicians by the f.cking throat that's needed.

Oh and spammers too, but with a tighter grip. A couple of tons psi on
the jugular.

Ratty
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sandy - 19 Sep 2003 09:12 GMT
thank f.ck for that ,amen brother regards the nutter up north sandy.
> sandy said this...
> > Hi Roy, Sandy here ,we are all sorry to here about Sid and that we lost
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Ratty
Mogget - 17 Sep 2003 23:31 GMT
>The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at
>home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover.

Sincerest condolences.  A good egg, he will be missed.
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Mogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat

John Williamson - 19 Sep 2003 23:04 GMT
> The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at
> home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>  (johnwilliamson@btinternet.com)

I can't thank you all enough for your support.

I would have replied earlier, but I was on tour with a coach party, in
an area with very bad cellphone connections (thanks, Vodaphone.) Now
back on BT 'til tomorrow morning.

I regret I can't get to all of you to thank you individually, but I'm up
at some horrible hour to take a flight to South Africa with our Mum.

See you all later, I hope.

John.
Stef Lach - 28 Sep 2003 12:40 GMT
God, I can't believe it.

I hope you are all managing ok, that's is such a terrible thing to hear.

From a fellow South African, God Bless and we will remember Sid around here.

Stef

> The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at
> home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>   (johnwilliamson@btinternet.com)
The Idle Plucker - 07 Oct 2003 18:33 GMT
> God, I can't believe it.
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>>
>>  (johnwilliamson@btinternet.com)

Just started lurking again after a few months off - terribly sorry to
read about Sid. Condolences to all the family.

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That's idlepluckerATntlworldDOTcom to me mates

If life were simple it would be boring.
I keep telling myself that again and again and again and...

John Williamson - 09 Oct 2003 00:26 GMT
Original post snipped.

The nervous may look away now.

This may be too much information, but after I got back from SA, then
back from shepherding a group of tourists to Luxembourg, some more
information regarding his death came to light.

It appears that at some unknown time, the fridge Mike stored his insulin
had failed without him noticing.

Most of the recent readings on his meter were off the scale, so it would
appear that his insulin had deteriorated in the heat (30 plus in the shade).

We know that he had been for dialysis within the couple of days before
his death, and my assumption is that he had been increasing his night
basal dose to compensate for the weakened insulin he had been using. As
his BG levels were so high he may have been confused, and forgotten to
reduce the dose for the new insulin he seems to have collected from the
hospital.

If anybody wants to know more, mail me direct, & I'll try to reply asap,
but between work and the worm that's going round lately, it may take a
while to reply.

> Sid's Big Brother.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>  (johnwilliamson@btinternet.com)
Flying Rat - 09 Oct 2003 01:09 GMT
John Williamson said this...
> Original post snipped.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> back from shepherding a group of tourists to Luxembourg, some more
> information regarding his death came to light.

Thanks for letting us know John.

We actually DO care about what happened with Sid in these parts, and
consider it all a dreadful waste. If there is any tiny bit of good that
might come from posting the circumstances, then it's not a problem as it
may be a pointer to someone who finds themselves in a similar situation.

A jogged memory is a much better tool than not having a clue after all.

Ratty
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Bob                                             ...with thanks for privacy to: - 09 Oct 2003 01:51 GMT
Hi John, Sid wrote to me quite a few times after I was diagnosed type
one at age 51 in April this year.  I'm not very good at this however you
have my condolences.  He was a good man and very helpful.  I for one
will miss him.  I've copied below, his post to me just after I was
diagnosed.  You will see it's very engaging, a mixture of experience and
advice.  I remember him saying that he was waiting for a kidney
transplant and that he was hoping to get a new pancreas at the time.
With love and best regards, Bob
Signature

Bob
Dx T1 4/4/2003, Insulatard & NovoRapid

It appears that at some unknown time, the fridge Mike stored his
insulin  had failed without him noticing. Most of the recent readings
on his meter  were off the scale, so it would appear that his insulin
had deteriorated in  the heat (30 plus in the shade). We know that he
had been for dialysis  within the couple of days before his death, and
my assumption is that he had  been increasing his night basal dose to
compensate for the weakened insulin he  had been using. As his BG
levels were so high he may have been confused, and  forgotten to
reduce the dose for the new insulin he seems to have collected  from
the hospital. If anybody wants to know more, mail me direct, & I'll
try to reply asap, but between work and the worm that's going round
lately,  it may take a while to reply.  Sid's Big Brother.  John

Hi Guys,   Not sure if you remember me, I posted last week (seems so
long ago) and had  high Bg levels (20's, 33+), you were very helpful,
as suggested I went to  Doctors last Friday.  Thought you might be
interested in what happened  next...

So... 10.30 Friday I take my printed BG levels and show doctor,
explaining  history.  She takes a look, tests my urine, find ketones
and is straight on the phone to the registrar at the local hospital
for them to see me.   So I present at A&E with a letter from her and
am taken thru for blood tests  (during which some sadist sticks a huge
valve thing in the vein on my hand).

Next thing, I'm in a cubicle on a bed with a (rather nice) doctor
checking  me out, eyes, etc.  I'm there for the whole day getting
poked, prodded,  injected and having a drip connected to my valve and
then (about 5pm) she  says I'll be admitted for the weekend (huh?  I
only came in for a test).   Next thing I'm in a ward with NKDA (maybe
MKDA) written on my chart, with a  saline drip and an insulin pump,
trying to get BG levels down.  People are pricking my fingers every
hour night and day (on the sensitive bits) and if  they manage to get
my BG level below 10, they change the saline for glucose (dextrose) to
put it up again.  It's called "sliding scale" as they change  the
insulin level with the BG level.  Still getting levels in the 20's
after  I eat.  So I'm stuck on this drip for 4 days or so when they
take it off and  give me a novorapid flexpen to inject myself. Ow !

Actually it wasn't so bad, very fine needle and I do have a bit of fat
to  inject into.  Saw lots of consultants, doctors, diabetic sisters
and  dietician.  Seems I'm type 1, the consultant (quite famous) said
don't  bother taking the metformin a doctor had given me.  I have to
use the  insulin apsart pen before each meal (3 times a day, 10, 8, 8
units (and I  can adjust the levels apparently) and the 10 units of
insulatard before bed.   Came out with lots of leaflets, pens,
needles, etc and am now back home  with new things to think about (for
the rest of my life).  I'm off to  diabetic clinic tomorrow and back
to GP Friday (so much has happened in one  week) for prescriptions.

So that's it so far, you were all right about my levels.  many THANKS
to all  who helped and cared.

Question: on the flexpens, should I change the needle each time? They
didn't  give me too many needles.

I think this newsgroup is going to become part of my life.

Thanks, Bob

-New type 1, DX 4/4/3, Novorapid and insulatard

On 9 Apr 2003 Sid wrote:

Hi Bob, It sounds as if you have done the appropriate thing, things
will improve from here.

Type one diagnosis at your age is very unusual, that may be why you
doctor prescribed metformin. I suppose it is difficult to decide which
type you are, but type 1 is typically less than 40 at diagnosis, type
2 above 40 typically, these figures are changing though

That first admission for a type 1 is quite something isn't it, kind of
sudden not very easy to plan. I was diagnosed 27 years ago, I actually
rode a bicycle to the GP, then to the clinic in the hospital from the
doctor, the specialist almost instantly told me "type 1 insulin
dependant, you will be admitted from here, don't go home", It was a
bit of a nuisance.

In those days, blood tests where not as easy, so not done so often,
and no such thing as sliding scale, it was a fixed dose for 1 day, 3 x
soluble insulin for a few days, the release, and after a while, mixing
a long acting with the fast acting an going to 2 injections per day.
No testing blood at home, and even in the clinic they tested only
urine an my clinic so control was not very good. That only changed in
the very late '70's.

Your experience should be better as you are testing regularly and it
sounds as if your doctor at the clinic will listen, I expect your
doses will change for a while until you get into the really good
control situation.

On the pen, the needle will do a few injections, change it as it
starts to be uncomfortable, every couple of days may be the best, but
the choice has to be yours. You need to get a prescription, ask for
quite a few on the first prescription then maintain a little stock
when you know how many you use, the instructions with the pen say
change every time, but that is a bit of a nuisance and not necessary.
Also now you are diagnosed prescriptions are free, you have to fill in
some forms, I am sure the UK people here will let you know about the
forms, I can't because I don't live in UK.

Because the Insulartard is in a 10ml container you have syringes, they
can be used in the morning an evening if stored in the fridge between
uses, but if you are only taking 1 dose per day it is better to use a
new syringe each time.

A little tip here in case no one told you, before drawing the insulin,
first move the plunger to the dose that you wish to draw, then inject
that air into the phial. then draw the insulin, it will make it easier
as the phial empties.

Watch out for hypo's the first one will take you by surprise, carry
something to fix it such as glucose tablets or sugar (possibly cubes)
or hypostop that your chemist may stock, coke or lemonade (not the
diet type) also works quickly. Even tea or coffee with a lot of sugar
will help. The clinic should set some targets for you, but at first
these may be high, the others here in the group have very tight
targets, and this assists in preventing complications, you need to put
sensible targets in place and change doses an diet to achieve these,
it is also a bad thing to be too low, that reduces sensitivity to
hypo.

Best of luck, and keep asking questions even if it appears silly
or stupid, you must learn to control the beast.

Regards, Sid. mwillia at mweb dot co dot za
 
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