Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / October 2003
Delurking with some bad news
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John Williamson - 17 Sep 2003 08:37 GMT The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover.
Diagnosed at age 17, type 1, waiting for transplant after kidney failure earlier this year, he lived in South Africa.
As he was the one who pointed me here for help, I thought you all ought to know.
Sid's Big Brother.
John
Type 2 since late 2001 (ish)
(johnwilliamson@btinternet.com)
Emma - 17 Sep 2003 08:59 GMT John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> writes
>The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at >home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover. That is such sad news.
Thank you for taking the time to tell us.
My condolences to you and your family. :-(
 Signature Emma http://www.tracksidetoilets.tk The Chocolate Monster http://altgallery.shows.it http://chocmonster.rules.it http://www.orbitvehicles.co.uk
Flying Rat - 17 Sep 2003 12:24 GMT John Williamson said this...
> The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at > home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > (johnwilliamson@btinternet.com) Oh Christ...
I was wondering where he'd got to. I thought he might have been lucky and got a donor, and that's why he hadn't been posting lately.
You have my condolences for all the family.
Ratty
 Signature www.flyingrat.net
John Williamson - 17 Sep 2003 12:49 GMT > John Williamson said this... > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Ratty Unfortunately no donor, but he'd been feeling rough (understandably) for a while, so he hadn't been posting a lot.
He was actually quite positive recently, after a change of centre for dialysis, unfortunately, he lived alone.
Thanks for the replies.
John.
sandy - 17 Sep 2003 14:01 GMT Words cannot express the sorrow I feel for you and your family, I will miss sid as will others deepest sympathy with respect sandy
> The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at > home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > (johnwilliamson@btinternet.com) Turner's Babe - 17 Sep 2003 14:36 GMT > Words cannot express the sorrow I feel for you and your family, I will miss > sid as will others deepest sympathy with respect sandy ----------
Oh no, that's awful news. Poor Sid. I just don't know what to say........
Sending you all the love and support in the world - things like that are devestating......
Jackie T
Turner's Babe - 17 Sep 2003 14:40 GMT Would it be okay to leave his page up on the website, but let everyone know what has happened? I think he still needs his place on the site as he was a big part of our group for a while. Just out of respect.
Jackie T
Emma - 17 Sep 2003 14:59 GMT Turner's Babe <turnersbabeMYBIG@SISTERPLEASEukonline.co.ukNOW> writes
>Would it be okay to leave his page up on the website, but let everyone know what >has happened? >I think he still needs his place on the site as he was a big part of our group >for a while. >Just out of respect. I think that's a great idea Jackie - a sort of cyber memorial!
 Signature Emma http://www.tracksidetoilets.tk The Chocolate Monster http://altgallery.shows.it http://chocmonster.rules.it http://www.orbitvehicles.co.uk
Tiger Lily - 17 Sep 2003 15:22 GMT oh, i do hope that we are allowed to continue to remember our friends
on the other group asd, we had memorial pages for those that left..... until the web master had a HD failure.... sigh...... and the host suddenly disappeared
the loss of the memorial pages is something irreplaceable..... and we will always regret it...... now we have a couple of back ups to the web page as well
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> Would it be okay to leave his page up on the website, but let everyone know what has happened? > I think he still needs his place on the site as he was a big part of our group for a while. > Just out of respect. > > Jackie T Turner's Babe - 17 Sep 2003 15:56 GMT > oh, i do hope that we are allowed to continue to remember our friends > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > always regret it...... now we have a couple of back ups to the web page as > well I have all the info logged on a remote server, so hopefully no hd failure will affect it.
I've added a note to Sid's page - hopefully you will all agree with it. I'm absolutely gutted - poor Sid - it's hard to know what to say......
Emma - 17 Sep 2003 16:17 GMT Turner's Babe <turnersbabeMYBIG@SISTERPLEASEukonline.co.ukNOW> writes
>I've added a note to Sid's page - hopefully you will all agree with it. Classily done as always dear Webmistress. :-)
 Signature Emma http://www.tracksidetoilets.tk The Chocolate Monster http://altgallery.shows.it http://chocmonster.rules.it http://www.orbitvehicles.co.uk
Turner's Babe - 17 Sep 2003 17:56 GMT > Turner's Babe <turnersbabeMYBIG@SISTERPLEASEukonline.co.ukNOW> writes > >I've added a note to Sid's page - hopefully you will all agree with it. > > Classily done as always dear Webmistress. :-) Just said what I thought we all felt.
Jackie T
John Williamson - 17 Sep 2003 17:13 GMT > Would it be okay to leave his page up on the website, but let everyone know what has happened? > I think he still needs his place on the site as he was a big part of our group for a while. > Just out of respect. > > Jackie T Absolutely.
It's nice to know he is/was so well regarded.
John & the rest of the family.
johnwilliamson@btinternet.com
John Williamson - 17 Sep 2003 17:16 GMT >> Would it be okay to leave his page up on the website, but let everyone >> know what has happened? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > John & the rest of the family. Just another note. I will forward copies to all our non-connected members, if nobody minds.
John
johnwilliamson@btinternet.com
Turner's Babe - 17 Sep 2003 17:54 GMT > > Absolutely. > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > johnwilliamson@btinternet.com Of course no one would mind John.
Jackie T
Flying Rat - 17 Sep 2003 23:21 GMT John Williamson said this...
> Absolutely. > > It's nice to know he is/was so well regarded. Well regarded?
Sid was part of the furniture of this group. Like I said, I thought he'd gone a bit quiet because he may have got lucky with the transplant.
I have felt like sh.t all day today, only because I didn't get the chance to say goodbye and hopefully will have to wait a while until we eventually get to say hello.
Sid was a decent bloke, and a well regarded poster in these parts. Losing him is a loss for everyone as he was part of the whole which is ASDUK.
Another good soldier in the diabetes war, and we will remember him as such.
Ratty
 Signature www.flyingrat.net
Flying Rat - 17 Sep 2003 23:15 GMT Turner's Babe said this...
> Would it be okay to leave his page up on the website, but let everyone know what has happened? > I think he still needs his place on the site as he was a big part of our group for a while. > Just out of respect. Please do Jackie.
Sid is a fallen comrade in the war we all fight. Let's not forget him.
Ratty
 Signature www.flyingrat.net
Tiger Lily - 17 Sep 2003 14:49 GMT John, i'm so sorry to hear about your loss of your brother
come back to the group for support, or come to chat if you need support
{{{{{{BIG HUGS}}}}}}} kate
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"John Williamson" <> wrote in message .com...
> The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at > home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Type 2 since late 2001 (ish) Al Hardy - 17 Sep 2003 16:02 GMT > The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at > home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > (johnwilliamson@btinternet.com) Aah, I am sorry to hear that, John. Deepest sympathy and condolences from my heart.
Al.
Wnella - 17 Sep 2003 21:10 GMT > snipped < Sad news, my deepest condolences to you & your family
 Signature Wnella
Beav - 17 Sep 2003 22:24 GMT > The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at > home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > As he was the one who pointed me here for help, I thought you all ought > to know. Sad news indeed John, but thanks for thinking to let us know.
Condolences of course.
Beav
Fred Fragger - 17 Sep 2003 22:52 GMT > > The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at > > home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > As he was the one who pointed me here for help, I thought you all ought > > to know. Sorry to hear the news John. My condolences to you and the rest of Sid's family
Fred
Flying Rat - 17 Sep 2003 23:59 GMT Beav said this...
> Sad news indeed John, but thanks for thinking to let us know. > > Condolences of course. Beav
As much as I bat for the whole team it's what people like Sid have to go through which gives me the total mindfuck.
He has told us at length about his battles to even get decent insulin.
I still have that sh.t thought at the back of my mind....if he was on beef would he still be with us........? Or even Lantus?
One day we will all meet up and laugh at this all. Until then I still feel shitty about this....
Ratty
 Signature www.flyingrat.net
sandy - 18 Sep 2003 09:30 GMT Hi Roy, Sandy here ,we are all sorry to here about Sid and that we lost him,but its not for you to bang yourself about by wondering about his meds, and if he had did this or that,Sid me and hippo all came along at the same time with the likes of Steph and Fred and others, I remember that you were the first guy to give me advice when i went to the asd group about my legs wernt working, I don't suppose you will remember this, but your contact really helped, and so did your idea of the asduk group.We've chatted on the group before about depression and the likes mate don't you slip now, you and the others have gave hope to the newbies, who leave the surgery for the first time after being told diabetes, f.ck mate you know what I mean,I thought , that's it my teas out and I'm off at plumpton , but as you helped me through it, we can all get through it. Your right in the aspect that med differ through the world as does medical support and information, but we owe it to every diabetic in the world to keep pushing and learning, to the non diabetic world diabetes is just another f.cking word that don't mean sh.t, but to us its life or death, Sid gave it a go, they way he wanted, it was a decent go and were all giving it a go, someday we may all meet again were we don't need to shove meds into our bodies, who knows ,keep your sh.t tight mate and keep going and helping others less well informed all the best Sandy. ps I know this wont come out the way I mean it but here goes.
> Beav said this... > > Sad news indeed John, but thanks for thinking to let us know. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Ratty Bob - 18 Sep 2003 21:13 GMT > ps I know this wont come out the way I mean it but here goes. I just have to tell you that your message moved me [almost to tears].
I've kind of given myself 5 years or so max, but reading the message I get the feeling that you old timers must see my type come and go rather too regularly.
Keep up the fight guys. Stength.
 Signature Bob New Dx 4/4/2003, Insulatard & NovoRapid
sandy - 19 Sep 2003 09:21 GMT One day at a time Bob and keep bloody fighting it,keep the levels down and look after yourself and most of all throw the calander out the window and take it as it comes,regards sandy
> > ps I know this wont come out the way I mean it but here goes. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Keep up the fight guys. Stength. Flying Rat - 18 Sep 2003 21:42 GMT sandy said this...
> Hi Roy, Sandy here ,we are all sorry to here about Sid and that we lost > him,but its not for you to bang yourself about by wondering about his meds, > and if he had did this or that <snipped>
Depressed? Me? No chance.
I don't get depressed, I get angry and try to do something constructive instead.
Maybe if Diabetes UK and the like weren't so up-the-arse of the NHS and drug companies we might be getting some decent service. And that applies everywhere. I occasionally make a health-political post in ASD, and the silence is deafening.
I don't believe any of us can afford to sit on the fence. Making fluffy "well done!" posts on a1c results might have some use, but it's making noise and grabbing politicians by the f.cking throat that's needed.
Oh and spammers too, but with a tighter grip. A couple of tons psi on the jugular.
Ratty
 Signature www.flyingrat.net
sandy - 19 Sep 2003 09:12 GMT thank f.ck for that ,amen brother regards the nutter up north sandy.
> sandy said this... > > Hi Roy, Sandy here ,we are all sorry to here about Sid and that we lost [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Ratty Mogget - 17 Sep 2003 23:31 GMT >The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at >home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover. Sincerest condolences. A good egg, he will be missed.
 Signature Mogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat
John Williamson - 19 Sep 2003 23:04 GMT > The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at > home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > (johnwilliamson@btinternet.com) I can't thank you all enough for your support.
I would have replied earlier, but I was on tour with a coach party, in an area with very bad cellphone connections (thanks, Vodaphone.) Now back on BT 'til tomorrow morning.
I regret I can't get to all of you to thank you individually, but I'm up at some horrible hour to take a flight to South Africa with our Mum.
See you all later, I hope.
John.
Stef Lach - 28 Sep 2003 12:40 GMT God, I can't believe it.
I hope you are all managing ok, that's is such a terrible thing to hear.
From a fellow South African, God Bless and we will remember Sid around here.
Stef
> The eggers among you will already know this, but Sid has been found at > home having apparently suffered a hypo. This time, he did not recover. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > (johnwilliamson@btinternet.com) The Idle Plucker - 07 Oct 2003 18:33 GMT > God, I can't believe it. > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> >> (johnwilliamson@btinternet.com) Just started lurking again after a few months off - terribly sorry to read about Sid. Condolences to all the family.
 Signature Pat, the Idle Plucker
That's idlepluckerATntlworldDOTcom to me mates
If life were simple it would be boring. I keep telling myself that again and again and again and...
John Williamson - 09 Oct 2003 00:26 GMT Original post snipped.
The nervous may look away now.
This may be too much information, but after I got back from SA, then back from shepherding a group of tourists to Luxembourg, some more information regarding his death came to light.
It appears that at some unknown time, the fridge Mike stored his insulin had failed without him noticing.
Most of the recent readings on his meter were off the scale, so it would appear that his insulin had deteriorated in the heat (30 plus in the shade).
We know that he had been for dialysis within the couple of days before his death, and my assumption is that he had been increasing his night basal dose to compensate for the weakened insulin he had been using. As his BG levels were so high he may have been confused, and forgotten to reduce the dose for the new insulin he seems to have collected from the hospital.
If anybody wants to know more, mail me direct, & I'll try to reply asap, but between work and the worm that's going round lately, it may take a while to reply.
> Sid's Big Brother. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > (johnwilliamson@btinternet.com) Flying Rat - 09 Oct 2003 01:09 GMT John Williamson said this...
> Original post snipped. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > back from shepherding a group of tourists to Luxembourg, some more > information regarding his death came to light. Thanks for letting us know John.
We actually DO care about what happened with Sid in these parts, and consider it all a dreadful waste. If there is any tiny bit of good that might come from posting the circumstances, then it's not a problem as it may be a pointer to someone who finds themselves in a similar situation.
A jogged memory is a much better tool than not having a clue after all.
Ratty
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www.flyingrat.net
Bob ...with thanks for privacy to: - 09 Oct 2003 01:51 GMT Hi John, Sid wrote to me quite a few times after I was diagnosed type one at age 51 in April this year. I'm not very good at this however you have my condolences. He was a good man and very helpful. I for one will miss him. I've copied below, his post to me just after I was diagnosed. You will see it's very engaging, a mixture of experience and advice. I remember him saying that he was waiting for a kidney transplant and that he was hoping to get a new pancreas at the time. With love and best regards, Bob
 Signature Bob Dx T1 4/4/2003, Insulatard & NovoRapid
It appears that at some unknown time, the fridge Mike stored his insulin had failed without him noticing. Most of the recent readings on his meter were off the scale, so it would appear that his insulin had deteriorated in the heat (30 plus in the shade). We know that he had been for dialysis within the couple of days before his death, and my assumption is that he had been increasing his night basal dose to compensate for the weakened insulin he had been using. As his BG levels were so high he may have been confused, and forgotten to reduce the dose for the new insulin he seems to have collected from the hospital. If anybody wants to know more, mail me direct, & I'll try to reply asap, but between work and the worm that's going round lately, it may take a while to reply. Sid's Big Brother. John
Hi Guys, Not sure if you remember me, I posted last week (seems so long ago) and had high Bg levels (20's, 33+), you were very helpful, as suggested I went to Doctors last Friday. Thought you might be interested in what happened next...
So... 10.30 Friday I take my printed BG levels and show doctor, explaining history. She takes a look, tests my urine, find ketones and is straight on the phone to the registrar at the local hospital for them to see me. So I present at A&E with a letter from her and am taken thru for blood tests (during which some sadist sticks a huge valve thing in the vein on my hand).
Next thing, I'm in a cubicle on a bed with a (rather nice) doctor checking me out, eyes, etc. I'm there for the whole day getting poked, prodded, injected and having a drip connected to my valve and then (about 5pm) she says I'll be admitted for the weekend (huh? I only came in for a test). Next thing I'm in a ward with NKDA (maybe MKDA) written on my chart, with a saline drip and an insulin pump, trying to get BG levels down. People are pricking my fingers every hour night and day (on the sensitive bits) and if they manage to get my BG level below 10, they change the saline for glucose (dextrose) to put it up again. It's called "sliding scale" as they change the insulin level with the BG level. Still getting levels in the 20's after I eat. So I'm stuck on this drip for 4 days or so when they take it off and give me a novorapid flexpen to inject myself. Ow !
Actually it wasn't so bad, very fine needle and I do have a bit of fat to inject into. Saw lots of consultants, doctors, diabetic sisters and dietician. Seems I'm type 1, the consultant (quite famous) said don't bother taking the metformin a doctor had given me. I have to use the insulin apsart pen before each meal (3 times a day, 10, 8, 8 units (and I can adjust the levels apparently) and the 10 units of insulatard before bed. Came out with lots of leaflets, pens, needles, etc and am now back home with new things to think about (for the rest of my life). I'm off to diabetic clinic tomorrow and back to GP Friday (so much has happened in one week) for prescriptions.
So that's it so far, you were all right about my levels. many THANKS to all who helped and cared.
Question: on the flexpens, should I change the needle each time? They didn't give me too many needles.
I think this newsgroup is going to become part of my life.
Thanks, Bob
-New type 1, DX 4/4/3, Novorapid and insulatard
On 9 Apr 2003 Sid wrote:
Hi Bob, It sounds as if you have done the appropriate thing, things will improve from here.
Type one diagnosis at your age is very unusual, that may be why you doctor prescribed metformin. I suppose it is difficult to decide which type you are, but type 1 is typically less than 40 at diagnosis, type 2 above 40 typically, these figures are changing though
That first admission for a type 1 is quite something isn't it, kind of sudden not very easy to plan. I was diagnosed 27 years ago, I actually rode a bicycle to the GP, then to the clinic in the hospital from the doctor, the specialist almost instantly told me "type 1 insulin dependant, you will be admitted from here, don't go home", It was a bit of a nuisance.
In those days, blood tests where not as easy, so not done so often, and no such thing as sliding scale, it was a fixed dose for 1 day, 3 x soluble insulin for a few days, the release, and after a while, mixing a long acting with the fast acting an going to 2 injections per day. No testing blood at home, and even in the clinic they tested only urine an my clinic so control was not very good. That only changed in the very late '70's.
Your experience should be better as you are testing regularly and it sounds as if your doctor at the clinic will listen, I expect your doses will change for a while until you get into the really good control situation.
On the pen, the needle will do a few injections, change it as it starts to be uncomfortable, every couple of days may be the best, but the choice has to be yours. You need to get a prescription, ask for quite a few on the first prescription then maintain a little stock when you know how many you use, the instructions with the pen say change every time, but that is a bit of a nuisance and not necessary. Also now you are diagnosed prescriptions are free, you have to fill in some forms, I am sure the UK people here will let you know about the forms, I can't because I don't live in UK.
Because the Insulartard is in a 10ml container you have syringes, they can be used in the morning an evening if stored in the fridge between uses, but if you are only taking 1 dose per day it is better to use a new syringe each time.
A little tip here in case no one told you, before drawing the insulin, first move the plunger to the dose that you wish to draw, then inject that air into the phial. then draw the insulin, it will make it easier as the phial empties.
Watch out for hypo's the first one will take you by surprise, carry something to fix it such as glucose tablets or sugar (possibly cubes) or hypostop that your chemist may stock, coke or lemonade (not the diet type) also works quickly. Even tea or coffee with a lot of sugar will help. The clinic should set some targets for you, but at first these may be high, the others here in the group have very tight targets, and this assists in preventing complications, you need to put sensible targets in place and change doses an diet to achieve these, it is also a bad thing to be too low, that reduces sensitivity to hypo.
Best of luck, and keep asking questions even if it appears silly or stupid, you must learn to control the beast.
Regards, Sid. mwillia at mweb dot co dot za
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