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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / January 2004My father won't take care of his diabetes; any idea what's next for him?
My dad has had diabetes for several years, but aside from a few isolated periods (of short duration) of trying to eat healthfully and exercise, he's been eating the exact opposite of the way he should be eating (peanut brittle and ice cream for dinner) and getting worse as time goes on. My mom died last week and now that she's not here to look out for him (and frankly even before we knew she was sick he refused to take care of himself) I worry about what's going to happen to him. I live 3,000 miles away, my sister lives 100 miles away and my two brothers live 400 miles away. All have full-time jobs and small children. For the last year and a half my dad has refused to inject his insulin, test his blood sugar levels, or take his blood pressure medication. He lives on fast food and sweets because he's going to "live the way he wants to, dammit". His motto is, "When your number's up, your number's up" but what he doesn't seem to realize is that his number may be up AFTER he has to undergo an amputation or two. I used to think he was trying to beat my mother to the grave because my dad has always had a depressed personality and few interests, but now I think he just hasn't thought it through and is unaware of where he's likely to end up after a year and a half of neglecting his medication. He feels cold all the time and even when the thermostat is set to 72F he has to wear a jacket and gloves to feel warm enough. My extended family thinks my brother should ask my dad to sell the house and move into the granny unit behind my brother's house, but frankly I think that would be a terrible idea. My dad has a really bad temper, and has shown no indication that he has any intention of changing his ways and taking care of himself. If he did move in behind my brother, I envision a scenario where he would expect my sister-in-law to cook and clean for him (she has a new baby and a job), my dad would eventually have to have a limb amputated or worse and be taken care of by my brother and his wife which would result in the end of their marriage. Also, he smokes like a chimney and they do not. There are too many downsides and not enough positives for that situation to work. Any time we try to talk to him about going to the doctor he screams at us and tells us never to mention it again. Anyway, my question is, what is likely to happen to my dad physically if he continues down this road? I want to be able to tell him so that maybe if he knows what's likely to happen he might be scared into changing. At least now he has options but if he doesn't wake up and smell the coffee he might end up in a nursing home. I hate to sound like a callous, insensitive daughter - I know losing a spouse is devastating - but he was like this before she got sick. Thanks, Julie Julie..... my heart goes out to you you have outlined a lot of very valid reasons to leave things the way they are my grandmother choose the same attitude that your father has taken and it was impossible to change her perspective.... i guess people get set in their ways...... she lived for 2 yrs the way she wanted to and she enjoyed herself my thoughts and prayers go out to your family kate  SignatureJoin us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/ > My dad has had diabetes for several years, but aside from a few isolated > periods (of short duration) of trying to eat healthfully and exercise, he's [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Julie >she lived for 2 yrs the way she wanted to and she enjoyed herself When Dan Alderson, the Type I I assisted, went into a nursing home because he was too sick to stay at home, it was clear that he was slowly dying. One thing he enjoyed and wanted was Bob's Big Boy hamburgers so I "smuggled" them in for him. Yes, I'm sure it shortened his life a little, but it was his decision to make, not mine. He knew the end was nearing and wanted a little bit of something he could still enjoy to make the time left more bearable. I had no hesitation in doing it and would do it again. Sometimes, when there's little time left, making a person's remaining time better is more important to them than trying to stay alive for every possible second. SignatureJoe Zeff The Guy With the Sideburns Morgan lives, and so does--Star A Star. http://www.lasfs.org http://home.earthlink.net/~sidebrnz > >she lived for 2 yrs the way she wanted to and she enjoyed herself > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > more important to them than trying to stay alive for every possible > second. It's a humbling experience, Joe. I can't add anymore to that. SignatureSteve, T2 since 9/29/03 > My dad has had diabetes for several years, but aside from a few isolated > periods (of short duration) of trying to eat healthfully and exercise, he's [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Julie Julie, my only advise to you is whenever you worry about Dad also include, "God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one that I can, and the wisdom to know that is me." In other words, there is nothing whatever that you can do. It is apparent that your dad wants to do what he wants to do. He may even have a death wish. A well respected local psychologist told my oldest son when he was talking about his now ex wife always bitching about him smoking, "Chuck, since you say you enjoy smoking so much, you can either live another twenty years or so enjoying your cigarettes or live perhaps forty more years always wishing you could have one. If it were me I'd rather live a shorter but happier life." I know full well how frustrated you are. My prayers are with you my friend. -- DO NOT REPLY TO EMAIL ADDRESS ABOVE AS IT IS FICTIONAL ============================================================================== Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: Lperry1940@mchsi.com For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ >Any time we try to talk to him about going to the doctor he screams at us >and tells us never to mention it again. Anyway, my question is, what is [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Julie Julie, it sounds very much as if your Dad knows exactly what he is doing..I cant help you with the physical part of the information you want, Im sorry.. You should know you are doing everything possible to help him.. I also dont think it is a good idea for him to move behinds brothers house either, Unless Brother is willing to cook, clean etc for him.. And I do mean brother not sil...I dont think you are callous at all.. He is an adult... I personally dont think there is much you can do, except tell him you love him and really wish your children would have the opportunity to see him as they grow up, as it looks like they wont..You cant FORCE someone to take care of themself.. JMO As always YMMV and this is JMO Jeanne Type 2 Diagnosed 05/28/02 189/154/120 I think Dr Laura would say - go to your Dad and tell him "GOODBYE". "iT'S GOING TO BE TOO PAINFUL TO SEE YOU FALL APART AND DIE". And stay away until he sees the sense of it. Nan, Elderly Type 2. Who has seen a lot of my age groups do stupid stuff. Sometimes you have to hit us over the head, just like kids. > I think Dr Laura would say - go to your Dad and tell him "GOODBYE". "iT'S > GOING TO BE TOO PAINFUL TO SEE YOU FALL APART AND DIE". > And stay away until he sees the sense of it. > Nan, Elderly Type 2. Who has seen a lot of my age groups do stupid stuff. > Sometimes you have to hit us over the head, just like kids. Okay Nan. So what would Dr. Kevorkian say? Unless her father has dementia is he not allowed to make his own choices regardless of how ridiculous they may appear to others? -- ============================================================================== Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: Lperry1940@mchsi.com For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ >> I think Dr Laura would say - go to your Dad and tell him "GOODBYE". "iT'S >> GOING TO BE TOO PAINFUL TO SEE YOU FALL APART AND DIE". [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Unless her father has dementia is he not allowed to make his own choices >regardless of how ridiculous they may appear to others? Chuck, Isn't what Nan just wrote very close to what one would have to say to an unrepentant addict, who by choosing his addiction (illness) over sobriety (healthy behavior) might effectively be chosing slow death over a healthier, possibly longer life? Are you responding this way to Nan's post because she used Dr. Laura (a right winger) as her example. Perhaps if she'd used Ann Landers or John Bradshaw, both of whom have offered similar advise, rather than Dr. Laura you might not have been so offended. What Nan's post is saying : Dad, if you continue to choose to kill yourself like this, I choose not to be around to watch. For what it's worth, I don't care to listen to Dr. Laura because I find her too harsh in the way she deals with her listeners. However, if you you were to slog your way through some of her vitrol, you might find a morsel of truth. > >> I think Dr Laura would say - go to your Dad and tell him "GOODBYE". "iT'S > >> GOING TO BE TOO PAINFUL TO SEE YOU FALL APART AND DIE". [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > if you you were to slog your way through some of her vitrol, you might > find a morsel of truth. I was not offended by her use of Dr. Laura, although I think she is a charlatan. I wasn't offended at all. Your example is a very good one since my youngest son is, in my estimation, out of control with his drinking. He reminds me very much of myself at the end of my drinking just before I hit bottom. That is, he says things like, "I drink because I am an alcoholic, but I'm not ready to quit." To me the statement about what Dr. Laura might say is talking down to the person. If, on the other hand, as you say she were to say to her dad that she just can't stand to watch him self-destruct and leave it at that, it would be very understandable. I have seen far too many supposed adults talk down to their parents just because the parents were elderly. I sincerely hope that none of my seven children ever do that to me. I doubt if they will or if Laurie would tolerate it, and she is usually pretty quiet and mild mannered. -- ============================================================================== Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: Lperry1940@mchsi.com For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ > > >> I think Dr Laura would say - go to your Dad and tell him "GOODBYE". "iT'S > > >> GOING TO BE TOO PAINFUL TO SEE YOU FALL APART AND DIE". [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > -- Somehow Chuck, I have a really hard time picturing anyone talking down to you...and surviving. ;>) c ============================================================================ == > Chuck > -???- > ~ > email: Lperry1940@mchsi.com > For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ > > > >> I think Dr Laura would say - go to your Dad and tell him "GOODBYE". > "iT'S [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > you...and surviving. ;>) > c ROFLMAO!!! Oh, my kids are just as independent and outspoken as I am usually. That is exactly how I hoped they would be. Even when we disagree we love each other. (Well there is one son that makes that real difficult. He's only 37 so he really isn't mature quite yet.) -- ============================================================================== Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: Lperry1940@mchsi.com For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ >To me the statement about what Dr. Laura might say is talking down to the person. >If, on the other hand, as you say she were to say to her dad that she just can't [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >seven children ever do that to me. I doubt if they will or if Laurie would >tolerate it, and she is usually pretty quiet and mild mannered. As I said, there are reasons why I, personally, do not listen to Laura Schlesinger. Note that I took out the word doctor, because as far as I know she has never acheived a doctorate in any subject let alone psychology. One of those reasons being that she seems to delight in the belittling of her listeners. I'm not sure, Chuck, that stating one's opinion on another's behavior can be called talking down to. To me, talking down to someone is speaking below thier level of comprehension. Perhaps, in this case, Dad's unwillingness to accept what he's doing to himself and his family is making him act like a spoiled child who deserves a little kick in the pants. Didn't you read the part where Julie's dad sticks his fingers in his ears and hollers I can't hear you? However, I don't believe that it was Nan's intent (forgive me, Nan, for putting words in your mouth) to talk down to anyone, but rather to encourage Julie to stand up for herself in this situation. And I kind of felt that your post was an assualt on Nan for quoting the talk show hostess. Which was more or less shooting the messenger. (in my view) And I'm still trying to figure out how Kevorkian worked his way into the conversation. Your question was essentially, "doesn't the man have the right to make his own choices?" The answer is "Of course he does. But what he has no right to do is impact negatively on his family with those choices. And Julie and the rest of her family also have the right to choose to not aid and abet this man's decision to slowly destroy himself. And, in making that choice, they have the obligation to let Dad know they've made it, and that if/when he chooses to make healthier choices, they will be there to help him implement them, but otherwise, they cannot condone or support his current behavior." I think everyone is actually on the same page here, Chuck. I think we're just using different words to express the same message. > >To me the statement about what Dr. Laura might say is talking down to the person. > >If, on the other hand, as you say she were to say to her dad that she just can't [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > I think everyone is actually on the same page here, Chuck. I think > we're just using different words to express the same message. I agree. -- ============================================================================== Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: Lperry1940@mchsi.com For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ I sometimes talk too much. So - I sometimes try to compose shorter answers and my kids say "too cryptic Mom". OK An adult has the absolute right to protect him or herself from anyone - including parents. Also from out-of-control adult children. I don't know much about AAA or other such groups but I do know they have the phrase "enablers". If the protection includes telling a parent that you're not going to stick around and watch them self-destruct, so be it. You are NOT required to "enable" them to indulge their illness or whatever. If a parent is so sick they can't think, such as with Alzheimers, it's different. I took my husband's car keys away from him when he was diagnosed, and took over the check book. One has to. But if a parent is NOT mentally ill, one protects oneself and one's own spouse and children. They come first. Nan, Type 2 > I sometimes talk too much. So - I sometimes try to compose shorter answers and > my kids say "too cryptic Mom". OK [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > ill, one protects oneself and one's own spouse and children. They come first. > Nan, Type 2 Nan, it sounds like you've been doing some deep thinking. I agree with you on everything (except AAA, American Automobile Assoc. I know you mean AA, Alcoholics Anonymous). You have me attention and my sincerity - and my compassion. Our family (my wife, myself and our son) take care of "Granny", my mother-in-law who has Alzheimer's. She's pretty far gone, tries to crap in the kitchen trash can (which has a lid on it), and of course has to wear diapers all the time. Oh, and she's paranoid-delusional (I think), and dx as Schizoid and a few other things. Worst of all, she's "combatant". When a patient is "too much", the County Police will provide free assistance and transportation (uniformed officers in a police car). Well, Granny was not about to be "taken in" by the Police and have to leave her home. She started a fight with the female cop, while her partner (about twice the size) went around Granny and put the cuffs on. Once down to the car, they said they would take the cuffs off if she would behave. She very sheepishly said, "ok". Later, she picked a fight with the doctor. He threatened to commit her right then and there if she didn't shut her mouth. (I'm told by my wife that Granny *was* going wild). She settled down once she got home in her own surroundings. Life is hard enough, but even more so when the 'patient' refuses help knowingly or not. I feel for you, Nan. My thoughts are with you. SignatureSteve, T2 since 9/29/03 Nan Eklund <naneklund@aol.com> quoth: >I sometimes talk too much. So - I sometimes try to compose shorter answers and >my kids say "too cryptic Mom". OK [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >and took over the check book. One has to. But if a parent is NOT mentally >ill, one protects oneself and one's own spouse and children. They come first. Precisely. I think you mean AA, though, not AAA. The American Automobile Association does good stuff, but not in this area. ;-) Priscilla Sorry - Senior Moment! I do belong to AAA but never had to join AA. I was fortunate in being able to quit smoking and never had a drinking problem, nor enough money to gamble. Sorry also to tread on toes with "Dr Laura". I happen to enjoy her show - vitriol, slams, insults and abrasions galore. Kind of a relief from the pap that fills air space. Nan, Type 2 > Sorry - Senior Moment! I do belong to AAA but never had to join AA. Uh Nan, I did not "have" to join AA either. I joined to save my life. I can leave at any time, as many do. I prefer living sober with peace and serenity in my life. In almost twenty-five years I have yet to meet anyone in AA that set out to become an alcoholic. Being an illness it just happens, just like our diabetes. And like Type 2 diabetes it is closely connected for most people that have it with life style and with heredity. It is also as simple to treat as is Type 2 diabetes, but just as fatal if not treated. Both of these diseases are terminal and once a person has them there is no cure - only control. > I was > fortunate in being able to quit smoking and never had a drinking problem, nor > enough money to gamble. > Sorry also to tread on toes with "Dr Laura". > I happen to enjoy her show - vitriol, slams, insults and abrasions galore. > Kind of a relief from the pap that fills air space. Please don't tell us that you enjoy listening to Rush too! LOL > Nan, Type 2 -- DO NOT REPLY TO ADDRESS LISTED ABOVE AS IT IS FALSE. ============================================================================== Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ No, I'd rather listen to O'Reilly Nan, Type 2 > No, I'd rather listen to O'Reilly > Nan, Type 2 Okay. He isn't quite as far to the right, but I can't stand to watch more than ten minutes of his show at any one time. I guess I should. After all we all need to know who our enemies are, don't we? <G> -- DO NOT REPLY TO ADDRESS LISTED ABOVE AS IT IS FALSE. ============================================================================== Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ >No, I'd rather listen to O'Reilly >Nan, Type 2 I never would have guessed......... Sleepy ----------------- Eskimo/Inuit up! ----------------- T2-3/14/01 >Sorry - Senior Moment! I do belong to AAA but never had to join AA. I was >fortunate in being able to quit smoking and never had a drinking problem, nor [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Kind of a relief from the pap that fills air space. >Nan, Type 2 Nan -- You go girl!! > I sometimes talk too much. So - I sometimes try to compose shorter answers and > my kids say "too cryptic Mom". OK > An adult has the absolute right to protect him or herself from anyone - > including parents. Also from out-of-control adult children. I don't know much > about AAA AAA = American Automobile Association Did you perhaps mean AA = Alcoholics Anonymous? > or other such groups but I do know they have the phrase "enablers". It is not a phrase. It is a word that is used by many people other than those in twelve step programs. en-a-ble (e-nabl)v. 1. To supply with the means, knowledge, or opportunity; make able.--en-a'bler n. --------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted from American Heritage Talking Dictionary Copyright © 1997 The Learning Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. > If the protection includes telling a parent that you're not going to stick > around and watch them self-destruct, so be it. I would guess that anyone as strong headed as this man is would be likely to say something like, "I'm sorry to hear that. I will miss you." Other than that they probably would do nothing. > You are NOT required to > "enable" them to indulge their illness or whatever. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ill, one protects oneself and one's own spouse and children. They come first. > Nan, Type 2 So you are saying that the grandchildren should not be allowed to know their grandpa because he won't tow the line that you think he should? That's just great! How is that fair to the kids? I have very fond memories of my grandparents and think it is a crime to deprive kids of that kind of thing. We have five grandchildren that we never get to see. Why? Because their daddy owes us money. I have never bugged him about it. I have asked him very politely to try to make an effort to pay some of it. Instead he chooses to resent me and according to what he tells his siblings blame me for the fact that he has never paid it back. I was forced to pay off two loans I had cosigned for him when he took out bankruptcy. Guess what? He included my wife and I in his list of creditors in that too. Oh, we still love him, but don't care much for his character ( or lack there of ). We have asked to please be allowed to see our grandchildren or at least have the address and phone number for the two older ones that live with his first wife. He says he will get them and then we don't hear from him for months. We do know the address and phone number for the youngest three and their mom. She send us pictures once a year, but we never get to see them. By the way, none of them live more than fifty miles from us, but we are not invited to their homes. They all know they are welcome in ours at any time. We have not seen those two older kids since August of 2002 even though we have tried. -- DO NOT REPLY TO ADDRESS LISTED ABOVE AS IT IS FALSE. ============================================================================== Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email address upon request For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ Again, thank you all for your insight into my dad's situation. Chuck, I don't think any of us have any intention of cutting our dad out of our lives - or of not letting him see his grandchildren. The main problem now is whether or not my brother says 'yes' to my dad's question about moving into the granny unit behind my brother's house. I'm sorry to hear about your situation with your son and grandchildren. What a shame - it's a loss for both of you, especially the grandchildren. Julie Chuck wrote: > So you are saying that the grandchildren should not be allowed to know their > grandpa because he won't tow the line that you think he should? > That's just great! How is that fair to the kids? I have very fond memories of my > grandparents and think it is a crime to deprive kids of that kind of thing. Thanks Julie. I was hoping that you weren't going to cut off contact with your dad. He may be suffering from depression and be in denial about it. After all if you think your life is over with and happen to have a potentially fatal disease how easy it would be to try to shorten one's life by doing all the wrong things. All my best to you, your dad and your family, Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ > Again, thank you all for your insight into my dad's situation. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > grandparents and think it is a crime to deprive kids of that kind of > thing. -- DO NOT REPLY TO ADDRESS LISTED ABOVE AS IT IS FALSE. ============================================================================== email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ Picky, picky, picky.......You sound like my kids. Nan, Type 2 > Picky, picky, picky.......You sound like my kids. > Nan, Type 2 The truth shall set you free. <BG> -- DO NOT REPLY TO ADDRESS LISTED ABOVE AS IT IS FALSE. ============================================================================== Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ >Picky, picky, picky.......You sound like my kids. >Nan, Type 2 you need to quote a small portion of what you are responding to if you want people to know what you are talking about. Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. Sorry Mack. I thought her message would pick up on the bottom of my reply. It was just a few grammatical and syntax corrections. Nothing important. I'm certainly not going to get into a fight about the way I write! After all, I can barely see the screen at the moment; there will be an improvement, I hope, after they take a cataract off next week. Nan, Type 2 > Sorry Mack. I thought her message would pick up on the bottom of my reply. > It was just a few grammatical and syntax corrections. Nothing important. > I'm certainly not going to get into a fight about the way I write! After all, > I can barely see the screen at the moment; there will be an improvement, I > hope, after they take a cataract off next week. > Nan, Type 2 Nan after my father in law had his done he didn't even need glasses anymore. He was thrilled! He said he could see better than he could remember from age 75 right up until the end five years later. To bad his emphysema took his life. He had finally given up the cigarettes at age 75 too. Watching him is what prompted me to finally quit smoking after having done it for over thirty years. Best of luck to you with your surgery. I will add you to my prayers this evening. -- DO NOT REPLY TO ADDRESS LISTED ABOVE AS IT IS FALSE. ============================================================================== Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ Thanks Chuck. I still work doing income tax, full time during the season, and NEED to be able to see. Besides, all those books...... I quit smoking at 58. They say a couple of years clears the junk out so if I can just keep the exercise going.....should hit 100. Why not? Nan, Type 2 Nan, I had good experiences with the catarct removal, had been "blind" without the use of glasses since I was 8...afterwards I can see great, don't use the dang glasses, only when I have a problem with the bg's, or if I'm driving (I never read the eye test without the glasses, so it is on my lic.) I hope you have great results, you will be surprised how clean and crisp colors look! Good luck and prayer for you....Mic Always, be, and stay AWARE! >Nan, I had good experiences with the catarct removal, had been "blind" >without the use of glasses since I was 8...afterwards I can see great, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Always, be, and stay AWARE! I just had to renew my license, and I have no idea how I passed the eye exam, but I did. I guesed well I suppose. Thing is, I don't need glasses for anything but reading or seeing small items. Sleepy ----------------- Eskimo/Inuit up! ----------------- T2-3/14/01 > >Nan, I had good experiences with the catarct removal, had been "blind" > >without the use of glasses since I was 8...afterwards I can see great, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > ----------------- > T2-3/14/01 Yes, but haven't you noticed how those pesky speed limit signs, stop signs and even traffic lights keep getting smaller? -- DO NOT REPLY TO ADDRESS LISTED ABOVE AS IT IS FALSE. ============================================================================== Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ >> >Nan, I had good experiences with the catarct removal, had been "blind" >> >without the use of glasses since I was 8...afterwards I can see great, [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >Yes, but haven't you noticed how those pesky speed limit signs, stop signs >and even traffic lights keep getting smaller? Actually I think I am into conditioned response. I am so accustomed to shapes of signs, and the position of traffic lights, that I respond automatically without compiling all the data as to printing and colors, in this small brain o' mine. Sleepy ----------------- Eskimo/Inuit up! ----------------- T2- 3/14/01 >Sorry Mack. I thought her message would pick up on the bottom of my reply. >It was just a few grammatical and syntax corrections. Nothing important. >I'm certainly not going to get into a fight about the way I write! After all, >I can barely see the screen at the moment; there will be an improvement, I >hope, after they take a cataract off next week. >Nan, Type 2 I wish you well with your surgery. Funny, but just as I am reading your message, I have a PBS program on about Islam in the background talking about how they were doing cataract surgery with a hollow needle, at the turn of the century, the first century that is (999-1000) Sleepy ----------------- Eskimo/Inuit up! ----------------- T2-3/14/01 00:15:15 Wed, 21 Jan 2004alt.support.diabetes >> If the protection includes telling a parent that you're not going to stick >> around and watch them self-destruct, so be it. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> ill, one protects oneself and one's own spouse and children. They come first. >> Nan, Type 2 I haven't seen the original article in this thread, I think, but my take on what I guess it to be about, FWIW, is that it is his life, and that nagging him might just make it harder for him to deal with: if he is anything like me, going on about it would tend to make me resist more, *in spite of myself*, because as well as having to come to terms with the disease, I am also, in effect, being pushed into admitting I'm wrong: big obstacle for folks like me! :-) Plus, at his age, he is entitled to handle it his own way: he should know best what approach will do for him. He knows your opinion by now. For me, what works better is to be left to deal with it in my own way, in my own time: that is the *fastest* way for me, by far. If you are able to set a good example with your own situation, so much the better (I don't know if you are T2 too). Setting an example, and not bragging about it, would be the best teaching tool, I suspect. People *do* notice. When he asks for some info, feed it to him. Be prepared with ways of dealing with it that don't require much willpower (start easy, progress slowly, in other words: a simple tip or two to start with). Depends on his personality, of course, but a lot of people go through denial while they deal with the psychological consequences of things they don't like. It is a phase, a sort of a depression, at least insofar as the unpleasant ideas are concerned. He might well work it out in time, but if not, no amount of nagging is likely to make it any easier for him, and it probably won't work either, depending on the particular personalities and dynamics involved. SignatureMartin Thompson bin@tucana.demon.co.uk (use "martin" not "bin") London, UK Home Page: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk Web Shop: http://buy.at/tucana Mobile Phone Ring Tones: http://www.ringamoby.com "Everything I do and say with anyone makes a difference." Gita Bellin Denial. Children say "I didn't do it". Old people say "I can still drive". It's very hard to recognize denial in oneself. It's very hard on the innocent bystanders when one doesn't. Along with living wills, as we get older we should inform as many family members and friends as possible - TELL ME WHEN I START SLIPPING/DRIVING BADLY/WHATEVER....... And good friends will. Nan, Type 2 >Denial. >Children say "I didn't do it". [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >And good friends will. >Nan, Type 2 But if you are a sheriff in a city next to mine, and you get pulled over from drunk driving, have the whole thing on the police car video you will still go free, no charges pressed. go figure. Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. I never said it was a perfect world. Just that we should, as responsible adults, try to cover our own stupidities. Like: appointing a designated driver, and leaving with one. Like: having back-up checks to our own dangerous activities. This last couple of weeks, about 6 "experienced" hikers and mountain climbers died in the San Gabriel and San Bernardino mountains. Looking for them risked the lives of a dozen dedicated search and rescue people and left family to grieve. I don't understand them. Nan, Type 2 Me either, and I don't appreciate paying for the search and rescue either. Now, they're starting to bill the people that the search and rescue teams are looking for if they were knowingly taking unnecessary risks, out of bounds, etc., and I think that's a great idea. -- Cheri Type 2, no meds for now. Nan Eklund wrote in message <20040127183319.22686.00000591@mb- >This last couple of weeks, about 6 "experienced" hikers and mountain climbers >died in the San Gabriel and San Bernardino mountains. Looking for them risked >the lives of a dozen dedicated search and rescue people and left family to >grieve. >I don't understand them. >Nan, Type 2 >Me either, and I don't appreciate paying for the search and rescue >either. Now, they're starting to bill the people that the search and >rescue teams are looking for if they were knowingly taking unnecessary >risks, out of bounds, etc., and I think that's a great idea. ouch! it costs 275 U$ to be transported by ambulance here if you are 7 miles from the hospital. Can you imagine what the bill would be a search and rescue? Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > >Me either, and I don't appreciate paying for the search and rescue > >either. Now, they're starting to bill the people that the search and [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and > terrorism. $275.00? That's cheap. It cost me $499.00 to ride less than six blocks from here to the hospital. -- DO NOT REPLY TO ADDRESS LISTED ABOVE AS IT IS FALSE. ============================================================================== Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ >> >Me either, and I don't appreciate paying for the search and rescue >> >either. Now, they're starting to bill the people that the search and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >That's cheap. >It cost me $499.00 to ride less than six blocks from here to the hospital. I'm glad I don't live in IA. Then, as many times as I used the service last year and once already this year. Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > >> >Me either, and I don't appreciate paying for the search and rescue > >> >either. Now, they're starting to bill the people that the search and [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and > terrorism. Yep. If the EMTs come to your house and find out you are diabetic you are not given a choice. You WILL ride in the ambulance to the hospital where they are going to run a bunch of tests whether you need them or not. I can't imagine what it is like for those with no insurance. My total bill for a 22 hour stay was over $6,000.00. When I am nervous and under stress my hands are in constant motion unless I consciously stop them. When the emergency doctor saw that he called in a neurologist that was convinced I had suffered some kind of a brain attack. So even though my wife and I told them there was nothing unusual about what I was doing they insisted that I have x-rays, a CAT scan, an EEG, a MRI and blood work. When they finally got me into a roof and brought me a "diabetic" dinner it has at least 120 grams of carbs! The "diabetic" breakfast the next morning had orange juice, cold cereal, 2 eight ounce cartons of skim milk, two pieces of white bread toast and stewed prunes. I laughed when I saw it and told the nurse that breakfast would send my BG well over 200 if I were foolish enough to try to eat it all. You will notice there was almost no protein and one hell of a lot of fast acting carbs. Hmm, maybe that's the way they keep diabetics in there longer (?) Oh, I almost forgot, after the first BG the nurse took, and she took it from the very tip of the finger, I explained it is better taken from the side and got her to allow me to do it after that. She assured me she would remember it when checking other diabetic patients. -- DO NOT REPLY TO ADDRESS LISTED ABOVE AS IT IS FALSE. ============================================================================== Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ >Yep. If the EMTs come to your house and find out you are diabetic you are not >given a choice. You WILL ride in the ambulance to the hospital where they are here if the EMTs are able to bring you around to the point you can actually state you refuse their help they have to stop, unplug you from any IV and monitors and go on their way. You;ll still get billed but not for the full cost of the transport, usually about 75U$. If you are unconscious and they cannot bring you around or after bringing you around you cannot make the decision to refuse their help they will transport you. >going to run a bunch of tests whether you need them or not. I can't imagine The only time they got away with unnecessary tests was when I spent that day in the ER going in and out of consciousness due to severe DKA. (Last year) >what it is like for those with no insurance. My total bill for a 22 hour stay >was over $6,000.00. When I am nervous and under stress my hands are in constant I know what it is like. You make payments until the bill is paid off or your debt climbs so high you have no choice but to file bankruptcy. I am still paying off a cardiac procedure that I had done when I had no insurance. That bill doesn't even scratch what I have already paid off out of pocket for previous medical bills. Right now I am glad to have insurance. >motion unless I consciously stop them. When the emergency doctor saw that he >called in a neurologist that was convinced I had suffered some kind of a brain >attack. So even though my wife and I told them there was nothing unusual about >what I was doing they insisted that I have x-rays, a CAT scan, an EEG, a MRI >and blood work. When they finally got me into a roof and brought me a I hope you insisted that this was documented in your medical records for the next time. >"diabetic" dinner it has at least 120 grams of carbs! The "diabetic" breakfast >the next morning had orange juice, cold cereal, 2 eight ounce cartons of skim [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >protein and one hell of a lot of fast acting carbs. Hmm, maybe that's the way >they keep diabetics in there longer (?) actually it is very common. Most hospitals are dangerously behind on current diabetic care standards. and even those that are up to par would rather keep you running high than run the risk of a hypo. What really scares me are the medicos (nurses, doctors etc) who don't no the first thing about caring for a diabetic like the occupational health care nurse my company contracted last year who tried to treat me for a hypo by giving me a diet soda and then went into a lengthy tale about her time as an ER nurse. >Oh, I almost forgot, after the first BG the nurse took, and she took it from >the very tip of the finger, I explained it is better taken from the side and >got her to allow me to do it after that. She assured me she would remember it >when checking other diabetic patients. well at least one person was taught something new. Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. >Oh, I almost forgot, after the first BG the nurse took, and she took it from >the very tip of the finger, I explained it is better taken from the side and >got her to allow me to do it after that. She assured me she would remember it >when checking other diabetic patients. I had a similar experience when I was in the hospital. The first time they did a test they stuck the pad of my finger. The next time the nurse came in I said she should test the side, that it hurts less. She acted like she had never heard that before. After that,she would come in a say "oh, you're the one who wants to use the sides of your fingers" as if it was the strangest thing she had heard. She mentioned that she would have to suggest it to her husband since he was diabetic as well. Yikes! -- Lord, make me an instrument of your peace... where there is hatred, let me sow love. remove "spamtrap" for e-mail We don't call an ambulances. We either get a ride, or plan on dying at home. ;-) -- Cheri Type 2, no meds for now. I can't imagine >what it is like for those with no insurance. My total bill for a 22 hour stay Yeah, I know what you mean. As it turned out I was having a TIA. Laurie and I thought it was a stroke. I couldn't move my right arm or leg at all. Within a short time after being hooked to an I.V. I was able to move them again. When I tried to walk, though, I was pretty weak. By the time I was at the E.R. for less than half an hour I was back to normal and just wanted out of there. > We don't call an ambulances. We either get a ride, or plan on dying at > home. ;-) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >what it is like for those with no insurance. My total bill for a 22 > hour stay -- DO NOT REPLY TO ADDRESS LISTED ABOVE AS IT IS FALSE. ============================================================================== Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ Yes, but you did the right thing by going there. I'm sure it was frightening for both of you and I'm glad it turned out well Chuck! :-) -- Cheri Type 2, no meds for now. >Yeah, I know what you mean. As it turned out I was having a TIA. Laurie >and I thought it was a stroke. I couldn't move my right arm or leg at all. >Within a short time after being hooked to an I.V. I was able to move them >again. When I tried to walk, though, I was pretty weak. By the time I was >at the E.R. for less than half an hour I was back to normal and just >wanted out of there. Me too! After the way I abused my brain for so many years of drinking I'm surprised anything functions right. I am blessed. I stopped before doing any major permanent damage - I think. > Yes, but you did the right thing by going there. I'm sure it was > frightening for both of you and I'm glad it turned out well Chuck! :-) [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >at the E.R. for less than half an hour I was back to normal and just > >wanted out of there. -- DO NOT REPLY TO ADDRESS LISTED ABOVE AS IT IS FALSE. ============================================================================== Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ : Me too! : After the way I abused my brain for so many years of drinking I'm surprised : anything functions right. I am blessed. I stopped before doing any major : permanent damage - I think. : > Yes, but you did the right thing by going there. I'm sure it was : > frightening for both of you and I'm glad it turned out well Chuck! :-) [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] : > >at the E.R. for less than half an hour I was back to normal and just : > >wanted out of there. : -- : DO NOT REPLY TO ADDRESS LISTED ABOVE AS IT IS FALSE. : ============================================================================== : Chuck : -???- Chuck, Wow, am I glad you are alright! That must have been scary. Watch your blood pressure and shloresterol like a hawk. We don't want tht to happen again. YOu are in my prayers. Wendy > : Me too! > : After the way I abused my brain for so many years of drinking I'm surprised [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Wendy Thanks Wendy. My cholesterol is fine; usually around 155. BP is another matter. Currently taking four meds, but can't seem to get the upper number below 150. Walking on treadmill 5 days a week and trying to lose weight. If I can do that it should make it easier to control that and my BGs - I hope. -- Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ > > : Me too! > > : After the way I abused my brain for so many years of drinking I'm surprised [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > : -- > > : DO NOT REPLY TO ADDRESS LISTED ABOVE AS IT IS FALSE. ============================================================================ == > > : Chuck > > : -???- [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Chuck > -???- Hi Chuck, So sorry you had a scare. That BP is the biggie. Me too. I get that top number a little lower than yours, but it is still too high. Hope you are OK and that all is well. SignatureEvelyn (To reply to me personally, remove sox) > > > : Me too! > > > : After the way I abused my brain for so many years of drinking I'm [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > (To reply to me personally, remove sox) That TIA was in August of 2002. Sorry if you all got the impression that it was more recent. -- Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ >That TIA was in August of 2002. Sorry if you all got the impression that it was >more recent. Sorry Chuck, but what the hell is a TIA? Sleepy ----------------- Eskimo/Inuit up! ----------------- T2- 3/14/01 >>That TIA was in August of 2002. Sorry if you all got the impression that it was >>more recent. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >----------------- >T2- 3/14/01 Disregard this message! Sleepy ----------------- Eskimo/Inuit up! ----------------- T2- 3/14/01 > >>That TIA was in August of 2002. Sorry if you all got the impression that it was > >>more recent. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > ----------------- > T2- 3/14/01 Too late. -- Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ > >That TIA was in August of 2002. Sorry if you all got the impression that it was > >more recent. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > ----------------- > T2- 3/14/01 That was my question too. Someone else posted the correct spelling and exactly what it is. Something about one part of the brain not getting enough oxygen for a short time. My primary physician and I think it was probably closer to a heat stroke. I had been working outside in the 90 degree heat digging up some old bushes for three hours and I hadn't taken a break to get something to drink or to eat anything. After he got done calling me "Dummy, dummy, dummy" it was my turn. I worked outside for 35 years or so and always had water and something to snack on with me. Then I do the same thing right here at home, never more than fifty feet from an outside spigot and with a lot of food in the house and I don't even bother to take a break and refresh. Doctor said, "If you don't want to take time to eat something then get some regular pop with sugar in it and drink a can of that." Yech! I can't stand the stuff anymore. -- Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ : > your blood pressure and shloresterol like a hawk. We don't want tht to : > happen again. : > : > YOu are in my prayers. : > : > Wendy : Thanks Wendy. : My cholesterol is fine; usually around 155. : BP is another matter. Currently taking four meds, but can't seem to get the upper : number below 150. Walking on treadmill 5 days a week and trying to lose weight. If I : can do that it should make it easier to control that and my BGs - I hope. : -- : Chuck : -???- : ~ : email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. : For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ Chuck, Do you watch your salt intake? I don't mean only use tasteless food, but not cook with it , rinse off canned tuna or salmon, watch soy sauce, etc and prepared foods. I know you like to et out i resturants and are able to while maintaining good bgs, but restaurant food can be very high in hidden sodium. I worry about you. We need you around for your general cheerfulness, inspiration in overcomeing great difficulties and for your vote in November and the years to come:-) Wendy > : > your blood pressure and shloresterol like a hawk. We don't want tht to > : > happen again. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > to while maintaining good bgs, but restaurant food can be very high in > hidden sodium. I try. I cut out using soy sauce at all. I use Mrs. Dash most of the time instead of salt. On the rare occasions that we have canned tuna it is packed in water. Avoid canned salmon - too expensive. Had one of those Morton House microwave bowls of chicken and noodles for supper last night. Yech!!! I think it was half salt. The noodles were way overcooked and I don't even want to know what part of the chicken that was. Won't be buying them again. Only 26g of carbs, but none too tasty. > I worry about you. We need you around for your general cheerfulness, > inspiration in overcomeing great difficulties and for your vote in > November and the years to come:-) Aw, gee. I'm a blushing. I need a compliment like that once in awhile. I'm off to a meeting pretty soon in the -3 weather. Sometimes when I get home from a meeting there will be a message on the machine from Laurie. She'll call and leave me a message just to tell me that she loves me and is glad she has me. Imagine that! I figure, don't question it - just count my blessings. > Wendy -- Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ >Yeah, I know what you mean. As it turned out I was having a TIA. Laurie >and I thought it was a stroke. I couldn't move my right arm or leg at all. >Within a short time after being hooked to an I.V. I was able to move them >again. When I tried to walk, though, I was pretty weak. By the time I was >at the E.R. for less than half an hour I was back to normal and just >wanted out of there. How do you have a Thanks In Advance? Sleepy ----------------- Eskimo/Inuit up! ----------------- T2- 3/14/01 > >Yeah, I know what you mean. As it turned out I was having a TIA. Laurie > >and I thought it was a stroke. I couldn't move my right arm or leg at all. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > ----------------- > T2- 3/14/01 Sleepy, Sleepy, Sleepy. Damned good thing I wasn't drinking my coffee when I read that. I needed that laugh. I know I'm going to misspell this, but it phonetically it is called a transinshemic attack. I just call it one hell of a scare! Time to get in the truck and head 20 miles north for a meeting. What the heck! It's only -3F with a -20 or so wind-chill. If I were wearing anymore layers I'd be like that little kid in "A Christmas Story" whose mom dressed him in so much that he couldn't lower his arms. C ya soon. -- Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ >> >Yeah, I know what you mean. As it turned out I was having a TIA. >> >Laurie and I thought it was a stroke. I couldn't move my right arm [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I know I'm going to misspell this, but it phonetically it is called a > transinshemic attack. I just call it one hell of a scare! Actually, it's Transient Ischemic Attack. It means the brain was temporarily deprived of enough oxygen to function normally. Chakolate SignatureI think, with never-ending gratitude, that the young women of today do not and can never know at what price their right to free speech and to speak at all in public has been earned. --Lucy Stone, abolitionist, lecturer, suffragist > Actually, it's Transient Ischemic Attack. It means the brain was > temporarily deprived of enough oxygen to function normally. > > Chakolate Hey, I wonder if that's where the saying '...head in the clouds' was inspired from? SignatureSteve, T2 - 9/29/03 A1c 5.5 - 1/23/04 Amaryl & Metformin >Actually, it's Transient Ischemic Attack. It means the brain was >temporarily deprived of enough oxygen to function normally. > >Chakolate mmmmmpppfhh!!! That odd sound is me trying not to say the obvious in an otherwise serious thread. But many things about newsgroup behaviour have suddenly become clear to me :-) Cheers Alan, T2, Oz dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. -- Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. > >Actually, it's Transient Ischemic Attack. It means the brain was > >temporarily deprived of enough oxygen to function normally. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > -- > Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. Aw, shucks! If we can't laugh about this stuff we will all be going around with long faces. '-) -- Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide. For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ >Actually, it's Transient Ischemic Attack. It means the brain was >temporarily deprived of enough oxygen to function normally. > >Chakolate Cool, I have a new excuse, "Sorry I was having a TIA" Works for me! Sleepy ----------------- Eskimo/Inuit up! ----------------- T2- 3/14/01 Sleepy....You are a stinker!! Don't change, I love it!! Mic Always, be, and stay AWARE! >Sleepy....You are a stinker!! Don't change, I love it!! Mic > >Always, be, and stay AWARE! Me? I am innocent of all charges. Unless I did it, and then it must have been societies fault. HaHa..... Sleepy ----------------- Eskimo/Inuit up! ----------------- T2- 3/14/01 > > I think Dr Laura would say - go to your Dad and tell him "GOODBYE". "iT'S > > GOING TO BE TOO PAINFUL TO SEE YOU FALL APART AND DIE". [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Unless her father has dementia is he not allowed to make his own choices > regardless of how ridiculous they may appear to others? I don't see Nan's reply as denying his right to make his own choices. She's affirming the right of his kids not to have to endure the effects of his choices. His choices, he has to live with them, but he can't assume that he will be enabled by his family. Nan sounds like she might have been to an Al-Anon meeting or two. Priscilla > > > I think Dr Laura would say - go to your Dad and tell him "GOODBYE". "iT'S > > > GOING TO BE TOO PAINFUL TO SEE YOU FALL APART AND DIE". [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Priscilla Yep. It's called tough love. My question would be, if she cuts herself off from Daddy because she doesn't want to watch him self-destruct, who is really being hurt? That certainly does not mean that she should enable him to destroy himself nor hide her concern. -- ============================================================================== Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ email: Lperry1940@mchsi.com For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/ > > > > I think Dr Laura would say - go to your Dad and tell him "GOODBYE". "iT'S > > > > GOING TO BE TOO PAINFUL TO SEE YOU FALL APART AND DIE". [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > -- ============================================================================== > Chuck "Tough Love". Hmm, now where have I heard that before?? Anyway, I think Nan got some bad advice from this "Dr. Laura" imo. Sometimes it can back fire. Like when you say, "OK DAD. THIS IS IT. I'M GONE. CALL ME WHEN YOU GET STRAIGHTENED OUT..." Then you get a call - from another family member - to say that dad died two nights ago. Now THAT I have seen in my own "family", that is to say, in-laws, stepparents. One thing I DO know for sure. Families differ. So does their method of dealing with such a problem as Nan has to deal with (dad). My best to you, Nan SignatureSteve, T2 since 9/29/03 "Why is it that men can react to broken bones as 'just a sprain' and deep wounds as 'just a scratch', but when they get the sniffles they are deathly ill 'with the flu' and have to be bedridden for weeks?" (Could it be the enabler he lives with?) >I think Dr Laura would say - go to your Dad and tell him "GOODBYE". "iT'S >GOING TO BE TOO PAINFUL TO SEE YOU FALL APART AND DIE". >And stay away until he sees the sense of it. >Nan, Elderly Type 2. Who has seen a lot of my age groups do stupid stuff. >Sometimes you have to hit us over the head, just like kids. I wouldn't doubt that Laura the fake doctor would say something like that. That's why I would never go to that fraud for advice of any kind. Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. I am top posting and leaving your post un snipped because I think people should see it over and over again as an example of how "our" diabetes (and any other illness) effects our families. as far as the risks and complications your father is running: blindness loss of limbs nerve damage in serval forms cardiovascular problems kidney failure liver failure the list goes on and on. The thing that prevents some diabetics from seeing these as real risks is that there is no way to predict which, if any, and when, these complications will set in. We do know that the best way to avoid them is to take proper care of our diabetes. Sadly no-one can force your father to care about himself. Now you say your father is on insulin and is not taking his insulin. Is he not taking it at all? or not taking it "correctly"? A type 2 diabetic who is put on insulin can stop taking the insulin without immediate risk to their life. A type 1 however, cannot stop taking their insulin completely. And if they were to be eating as you describe and stop their insulin they would be hospitalized very quickly. Is he going in and out of the ER because of his behavior? I had his attitude for many years. I am blind in one eye, have gastroparesis and peripheral neuropathy and now that I am doing my best to care for myself, control is very difficult. It took more than 20 years for my complications to become severe enough to impact on my life. I was convinced that I always had time to change before trouble set in. The truth is, once it starts there is no guarantee that it can be reversed or even stopped at whatever point it has reached. I consider myself quite lucky so far. Your father is probably convinced that he can beat the game. Personally I would suggest that your family stick with telling him the truth about his mistakes and how it makes each of you feel. If he ever get's to the point he needs to be cared for I would then look into assisted living not putting him up on your brother's spare property and having them care for him, especially if the brother AND his wife do not agree to it. Besides, until he needs assistance on a daily basis, with his current attitude what makes you think he would be willing to sell his property and give up his freedom and move in with his kids? Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. >My dad has had diabetes for several years, but aside from a few isolated >periods (of short duration) of trying to eat healthfully and exercise, he's [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > >Julie "Julie" <anon@anon.com> wrote in alt.support.diabetes: > For the last year and a half my dad has refused to inject his insulin, > test his blood sugar levels, or take his blood pressure medication. He > lives on fast food and sweets because he's going to "live the way he > wants to, dammit". His motto is, "When your number's up, your number's > up" but what he doesn't seem to realize is that his number may be up > AFTER he has to undergo an amputation or two. Isn't it maddening? The same person who taught you to be respectful to other people, to sit still and eat your meal, to do your homework, to obey the law, to take care of yourself, to take care of others - the same person who now behaves like a 14-year old adolescent, not letting you take care of him? There is one difference between that adolescent and your dad however. The youngster is a rebel without the knowledge, your dad is a grown-up rebel with a life of experience. He knows exactly what he is doing, and what the consequences are. If I were your dad I would be even more stubborn if you would try to convince me what he should do. If I were your dad I would feel very uncomfortable if I saw how much grief I was causing to the people who love me, the children I care for, and care for me. It doesn't matter if you tell him yourself why he is acting so wrong, or if you let a doctor tell it to him. If you take him there, that darn doc is just your mouth speaking. "They're all against me". Someone who says he doesn't want help, can't be forced to get help. But also remember that people shouting out loud they don't need help, almost always use this phrase as a desperate cry for help, a way of saying "I feel so helpless and powerless." It seems that you might need another strategy. A strategy in which he's not "lectured" about the obvious consequenses he knows all too well, but a strategy that shows him how deep he hurts his children, and his other loved ones. It might be a good idea if _you_ and your brother and sister-in-law seek professional advice how to tackle that. And stop telling him the obvious for the time being. As you already experienced, it brings you nowhere. He needs someone talking to him who has (or can) earned his respect. Someone he looks up to. Someone who can make him clear that he's letting his children down. Maybe after that his guilt takes over his pride. It could be a better approach for now. All the best. SignatureCeeBee "I am not a crook" Thank you all for your opinions about my dad's situation. I should have made it clear in my original post that he has Type II diabetes. Also, he has expressed an interest in living in the granny unit behind my brother's house - it's not just us thinking he might want to; however, without an agreement from him that he would start taking better care of himself I don't see how that's possible. How can we tell him that though? He already feels estranged from us, according to our aunts. However when we do try to get close he has a history of pushing us away: when my sister tried to talk to him about how he was feeling as my mother got weaker and weaker he literally shut the car door on her legs and told her he didn't want to talk about it. When she tried to say she didn't want to see him end up in a diabetic coma he literally stuck both fingers in his ears and said, "I can't hear you, I can't hear you" or something to that effect. I get the distinct impression he wants us to worry about him, though; he very much wants our sympathy (which he definitely has, though perhaps it's not as unmitigated as he would like it to be). Also, we have tried on numerous occasions to tell him how, since he is the only grandparent a few of his grandchildren have left (at least nearby), we would really like for him to be around so they can get to know him. He remains unmoved by that, saying there is no life after the loss of my mother. But again, he was heading down this road even before we knew my mother had cancer. I don't mean to be overly negative; my dad is really funny and very generous - he just tends to get belligerent when discussing touchy subjects. I can't help feeling that if he was taking his meds he might feel a little better (he's now saying any doctor who pushes insulin is just a stooge for the pharmaceutical industry!). Since he won't consider going near a doctor, what other "respectable" source might he possibly listen to? We've also suggested he start seeing a grief counselor but he just dismisses that, saying they can't tell him anything he doesn't already know, and even if they did, it wouldn't help anyway. Thanks, Julie > "Julie" <anon@anon.com> wrote in alt.support.diabetes: > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > All the best. Julie..... this is difficult for you and i truly understand that (my father died suddenly at the age of 68 leaving all his grandkids wondering who grandpa is) i would consider the manipulation that he can force upon you more than he does now if he moves into your brothers granny suite no way would i accept his request to move in with him....... it's a slippery road to hell SignatureJoin us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/ > Thank you all for your opinions about my dad's situation. I should have made > it clear in my original post that he has Type II diabetes. [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > > > > All the best. > Thank you all for your opinions about my dad's situation. I should have made > > Thanks, > > Julie Julie, My thoughts and prayers are with you. I know I can't help your dad, but I can try and help give you encouragement in such a trying time. SignatureSteve, T2 since 9/29/03 "This message comes from the heart" Julie, I don't know exactly how you could get it to happen, but when I read what you write about him, I wish he could be evaluated for depression. It's depressingly (pun intentional) common among the elderly. Priscilla, T2 diabetic depressive (etc.), both illnesses well treated > Thank you all for your opinions about my dad's situation. I should have made > it clear in my original post that he has Type II diabetes. About the only one I know of in this group who has SUCCESFULLY dealt with a situation like this is Marie. And her mother was close to death from similar neglect of her diabetes (and refusal for many years to see a doctor). Maybe that's what it takes - when the reality of the consequences finally does arrive. I know Marie only agreed to take on her mother's care on condition her mother did ALL she was instructed to do, no arguments, but instead total co-operation. It cost Marie a lot to do all that was then needed, but her mother did keep the bargain, and gained considerable improvement. Perhaps she is the one who can advise you the most. You could try addressing her here in your header? If she is still reading asd, she may respond - I think she is pretty busy right now, caring for her mother's latest complication, ie, kidney failure. For now, IMHO, there is nothing you can do. A sad, sad situation. Annette Hi Julie > Thank you all for your opinions about my dad's situation. I should have made > it clear in my original post that he has Type II diabetes. [snip tale of your dad's denial] > Also, we have tried on numerous occasions to tell him how, since he is the > only grandparent a few of his grandchildren have left (at least nearby), we > would really like for him to be around so they can get to know him. He > remains unmoved by that, saying there is no life after the loss of my > mother. But again, he was heading down this road even before we knew my > mother had cancer. Many people whatever their age, can't be told. Even a health-related "wake-up call" might not "wake them up" > I don't mean to be overly negative; my dad is really funny and very > generous - he just tends to get belligerent when discussing touchy subjects. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > saying they can't tell him anything he doesn't already know, and even if > they did, it wouldn't help anyway. He doesn't want to get well. You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink. If it was me in your shoes, I would corner him and in no uncertain terms, spell out the consequences of his actions, then refuse to discuss it further unless there was a dramatic improvement, or if he seriously sought your help. Judging by what you have written, I'd say your dad was being emotionally manipulative. You have to distance yourself from this and his problem. It appears that as a caring daughter, you have done all you can. At the end of the day, what he does or does not do is his perogative. If he knows what the consequences are but ignores their implications then in my opinion you've discharged your responsibilities and so has everybody else who cares for him. A lousy situation, and you have my sympathy. SignatureJohn38 - t2 or LADA? : dx@11/2003 : fbg @DX=13.6mmol/l : fbg now=6.7mmol/l glimepiride 6mg : aspirin 100mg : fish oil : low carb : exercise BGs gradually coming into control : Weekly avg=9.21mmol/l : BMI=24 Julie, you have been dealt a lousy hand. It's an awful thing to lose a parent, and to have this on your mind on top of it. Considering the fact that your dad wouldn't take care of his health when your mom was alive, there is very little hope that he will start now that your mom is gone. I don't suppose there is any chance of getting him to a psychiatrist. An initial strategy could be to get him to go to deal with his grief, and then move into the reasons he is treating himself so poorly. Does he take any meds for his depression? I know when I slink into the dark hole of depression, the disease tells me that I don't need to test, I can eat whatever I want, and I don't care because my feeling on living itself, is that I can take it or leave it, but I would just as soon leave it. This sounds like what your dad is going through. If the depression is not dealt with, I don't see how your dad will want to change his life. Just wondering, but how old is he? Is he retired? Pension? Good health insurance? Though it sounds cold, I don't think your dad should move in behind your brothers house. IMO, he could be poison to your brothers family, and possibly cause a rift between your brother and his wife. That does nobody any good. If he sold the house, he should have enough money to live on, (assuming the house is paid for, or he holds a lot of equity) How about a retirement community? It isn't a nursing home, he would have his own "apartment", and they do the cooking, (cleaning I don't know, but he could hire someone to come in and clean once a week), and they have nurses on staff if needed. (usually). He has his independence, but doesn't have to do a lot of work on upkeep. Plus he would have people in his own age group to hang with. Just a thought. Whatever happens, my heart goes out to you and I will keep my fingers crossed for you. Sleepy >My dad has had diabetes for several years, but aside from a few isolated >periods (of short duration) of trying to eat healthfully and exercise, he's [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > >Julie ----------------------------------------------- Let's Kick the Right Wing, Out of the West Wing ----------------------------------------------- Thanks for your kind thoughts, Sleepy. I think my dad has always suffered from depression. He tried Prozac a few years back and while my mother said his mood and behavior improved a great deal, he said it didn't make any difference and stopped taking it. We've suggested several times that he renew his prescription but he refuses to - I honestly don't know why, except that renewing it might require a trip to the doctor. My dad owns his own house and is 66 years old. He retired a couple of years ago, but continues to work part time at his former place of employment. That's a good thing because I think he could really use the routine right now. > Julie, you have been dealt a lousy hand. It's an awful thing to lose a > parent, and to have this on your mind on top of it. [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > Let's Kick the Right Wing, Out of the West Wing > ----------------------------------------------- > My dad has had diabetes for several years, but aside from a few isolated > periods (of short duration) of trying to eat healthfully and exercise, he's [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > lives 100 miles away and my two brothers live 400 miles away. All have > full-time jobs and small children. Sorry to hear that. > For the last year and a half my dad has refused to inject his insulin, test > his blood sugar levels, or take his blood pressure medication. He lives on [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > medication. He feels cold all the time and even when the thermostat is set > to 72F he has to wear a jacket and gloves to feel warm enough. If he is type 1 and does not use insulin, he is on a quick road to death. I suspect he would have already left us though if that were the case. Perhaps he is really type 2 and was put on insulin to allow him a little more leeway in his diet? Just a guess. If he is cold all the time, he might also have a thyroid problem. The depression would explain why he isn't wanting to take care of his diabetes. I have an elderly friend with type 2 and clinical depression. He thinks like your Dad does. It's sad, but there's really nothing you can do about it. > My extended family thinks my brother should ask my dad to sell the house and > move into the granny unit behind my brother's house, but frankly I think [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > There are too many downsides and not enough positives for that situation to > work. He may have had a bad temper all his life. Or the bad temper may have come on because of the high BG (blood glucose) he is undoubtably suffering from. I would not recommend him moving in there. I have had some experience along those lines with an inlaw. Not exactly the same situation, but similar enough to know that it will be a lot of work for the family, and your Dad will probably not even appreciate it. > Any time we try to talk to him about going to the doctor he screams at us > and tells us never to mention it again. Anyway, my question is, what is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > sound like a callous, insensitive daughter - I know losing a spouse is > devastating - but he was like this before she got sick. I don't think anything you tell him will have any impact. And nobody here can predict what will happen to him. Some of us do all that we can to manage our diabetes and still get complications. Then there are others who live their life in denial and get no complications. While a nursing home might not sound so great, that is exactly where the person in my scenario is now. She didn't want to go there at first. But she settled in quite nicely and has made a lot of friends there. She is actually happy now and doesn't seem depressed like she was before. She used to get surly, even violent. No more! She is also getting good medical care! And I think she is much healthier. That is one good point of a nursing home. Assuming it's a good nursing home that is. They will watch his diet, check his BG, make sure he gets his insulin, etc. Now granted, they might not insist on the tight control that many of us here aim for, but what they will do is certainly better than the situation he is in now. SignatureType 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ Julie,,,,when our roles (in regards to parents) change from children to parent, instead of the way it has been for so long (parent to child) it is a hard thing to do...especially emotionally (for both persons). I have no magic solution, just know that we all may have to meet this problem sometime in our lives. You have my prayers, and many good vibs coming your way. Wish I had some better answers,,,but I don't. Maybe you could go to a ng that deals with family care providers.....just a thought....Mic Always, be, and stay AWARE! Julie, I am sorr to hear about the loss of your mother Does your brother want your father to live with him or are you volunteering him. You know the story, you can lead the horse to water, but you cant. You know right now h is in morning and nothing you say or do will make him compliant. Of course he is in serious denial. Does your father see a doctor and if so, perhaps you can call the doctgr who might be able to scare some sense into him. I hope things turn around. He is very lonely now and if you say he has a bery bad temper, which may be due to uncontrolled diabetes, not too many people will want to have him around. Maybe he should see a pyschiatrist. He is definitely on a road to destruction. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. Julie... One of the reasons I take care of my diabetes is because I don't want to be a burden on my husband. I think he would rather hear me gritch, my feeling sorry for myself because I can't eat what I would like, having to rearrange many schedules, etc., then push me around in a wheelchair and take care of festering, oozing, wounds...... Your Dad is depressed and selfish. As hard -hearted as it may sound, there is no way unless he began some sort of treatment would he move close to me and would I take responsibility for his care.... I think laying it on the line....... sharing the complications is a must. Only after seeing that at sometime he is actually doing what needs to be done to take control would I go any further..... At this point you should feel absolved if you give him the information. These death wish personalities can ruin all around them... I think allowing yourself to die due to diabetes complications would be one of the worst ways to go.... for the diabetic and the loving people around them.... I am sorry!!!! Memory Julie, First, I am so very sorry to hear about the loss of your mom. My hubby just lost his mom on the 3rd of this month. We had been her caregiver's for the past 12 years. There really is very little that you can do for your dad. You can tell him that you love him and would like him around a lot longer. You can tell him until the cows come home about all of the things that will happen to him (loss of eyesight, limbs, heart attack, stroke) if he doesn't try to get this under control, but from the sound of it, he probably won't listen. As his daughter (goes for the rest of the siblings), you have the right to tell the doctor what your dad is and isn't doing for his health. Course, the doctor will know by his blood work and readings. Hopefully, the doctor can prescribe something for what sounds like depression as well. Best Wishes, Dot Type 2 Diag 8/2001 =================== > My dad has had diabetes for several years, but aside from a few isolated > periods (of short duration) of trying to eat healthfully and exercise, he's [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Julie He does have options and he has taken one. I'm on his side. I don't mean that he has made anywhere near the right choices, that is, for me but he has the right to live his own life, but it is his own. We can't make his decisions for him anymore than we would allow him to make our decisions for us. jim |
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