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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / January 2004calculating BG rises
How can you calculate a BG rise down to the point per gram from a particular food if the meters can be 10-20% off the mark? How did you figure it out? Fawnhawk > How can you calculate a BG rise down to the point per gram from a particular > food if the meters can be 10-20% off the mark? How did you figure it out? According to the ADA, each 5g of carb that you eat will raise your BG 15 points. Now that's assuming that your body works like the textbook and that you have eaten only carbs. Add protein, fat, or fiber and this could change.  SignatureType 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ >> How can you calculate a BG rise down to the point per gram from a >> particular food if the meters can be 10-20% off the mark? How did [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > textbook and that you have eaten only carbs. Add protein, fat, or > fiber and this could change. The ADA has the same attitude as Diabetes UK - one size fits all, and if we as individuals don`t fit the mold they have created, we are wrong. A bit like some pseudo-scientists - *Don't let the facts get in the way of a good theory* The meter is only 10% plus or minus, allowed by law in some countries, advised in others. Not 20% off the mark, therefore. In any case, most meters are much more accurate than that. When you say the *point per gram* I assume, perhaps wrong, that you mean mg/dl. And for me, trying to be that accurate is obsessive and self-defeating. You are of course entitled to differ in your opinion. -- You're unlikely to discover something new without a lot of practice on old stuff. R.P. Feynman 1983 lecture 1, Caltech Yeah I meant mg/dl. I was just curious since some people have talked about how this or that food raised their BG so many points. Fawnhawk > When you say the *point per gram* I assume, perhaps wrong, that you mean > mg/dl. And for me, trying to be that accurate is obsessive and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > R.P. Feynman 1983 lecture 1, Caltech >> How can you calculate a BG rise down to the point per gram >> from a particular food if the meters can be 10-20% off the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > like the textbook and that you have eaten only carbs. Add > protein, fat, or fiber and this could change. This also varies with body weight... :-) BJ and time of day. bg will raise higher, later in the day for the same intake of carbs, in many DM's. dave >>>How can you calculate a BG rise down to the point per gram >>>from a particular food if the meters can be 10-20% off the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > This also varies with body weight... :-) BJ ACK!!! I meant later in the day, bg's will rise LESS for same intake of carbs, for many DM's. dave > and time of day. bg will raise higher, later in the day for the same > intake of carbs, in many DM's. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> >> This also varies with body weight... :-) BJ >>How can you calculate a BG rise down to the point per gram from a > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > you have eaten only carbs. Add protein, fat, or fiber and this could > change. IMHO, a perfect response. 1. A reference, "According to the ADA..." 2. An absolutely essential assumption/qualification, "Now that's assuming...." I certainly couldn't ask for anymore. I've noticed that those that post like this, don't mind additional questions. Those that don't post this way, seem to believe that between them and G_d, they know all there is to be known. G_d knows everything, and the poster knows everything else <g>. So they make the newbie feel like if you don't do it my way, you will die a slow painful death. Not good. My thanks (and respect) to you, Julie, for being so damn reasonable. Fawnhawk wrote in message >How can you calculate a BG rise down to the point per gram from a particular >food if the meters can be 10-20% off the mark? How did you figure it out? > >Fawnhawk Type 2 have a real difficulty in calculating "points per gram". When you eat carb, your stomach and your pancreas start a race: a. The stomach tries to dump glucose into the blood as fast as possible b. The pancreas tries to add enough insulin to the blood to stop the bG rise. For diabetics in Early Times, the stomach works fine, the pancreas is crippled. Hence the stomach wins though by how big a margin depends on how fast the food digests. IOW, there is no single answer to your question. Since you are still making your own insulin (at a reduced rate), and you don't know how much you are making, any answers you try to calculate will vary from food to food. It's a different matter for us T1. The only insulin around is the stuff we inject so we can make those calculations. The rule-of-thumb for a T1 eating fast carb is: bG rise (mg/dL) = 0.0404 x Body Weight (lb) - 11.127 (that's my regression analysis of data presented by Bernstein and some others) IOW: for a 150 lb T1, 1 gram of carb raises bG by about 5 mg/dL for a 200 lb T1, 1 gram of carb raises bG by about 3 mg/dL Regards Old Al Thanks, that was an excellent explanation. That's part of why I was wondering because I notice how variable my BG is. The amount of carbs, the type of carbs, and anything else with it makes each meal different, so "this-many" carbs = this BG didn't make sense to me. I can see how it is easier for T1s to calculate. Fawnhawk > Fawnhawk wrote in message > >How can you calculate a BG rise down to the point per gram from a [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Regards > Old Al Fawnhawk, Though I keep reading here about the supposed innaccuracy of meters, I believe that information is out of date. I've cross checked quite a few meters and done repeat tests, and the results are much closer than the 10-20% you've cited. That might be what the law allows, but the meter manufacturers are doing a lot better than that now. Dr. Richard K. Bernstein gives a table for calculating blood sugar rises per dose of pure glucose. It depends on weight. I have put it on my page at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/twogramcure.htm I've found that his formula works very well for me when I run into a problem with exercise-induced low blood sugar and lets me raise it just enough to avoid causing another reactive swing. When you mix larger doses of glucose with other foods and eat complex sugars and starches that take time to digest, it gets much more complicated. Only by testing your own response to foods will you know the answer for sure. -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.2. Cut the carbs to respond to my email address! Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes and more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm > How can you calculate a BG rise down to the point per gram from a particular > food if the meters can be 10-20% off the mark? How did you figure it out? > > Fawnhawk > Fawnhawk, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 10-20% you've cited. That might be what the law allows, but the meter > manufacturers are doing a lot better than that now. Unless you are using a laboratory standard bg tester, there is no way you can determine the acurracy of a purchased meter, no matter how many tests you do or how many different meters you use. That is, unless I am missing something or you left out something very important from your post. The manufacturer knows what the accuracy of his meter is. Have you made an inquiry to them? > Dr. Richard K. Bernstein gives a table for calculating blood sugar rises per > dose of pure glucose. It depends on weight. I have put it on my page at [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> >>Fawnhawk Jenny <lottadatacarbs@hotmail.com> quoth: >Though I keep reading here about the supposed innaccuracy of meters, I >believe that information is out of date. I've cross checked quite a few >meters and done repeat tests, and the results are much closer than the >10-20% you've cited. That might be what the law allows, but the meter >manufacturers are doing a lot better than that now. This fits with my understanding, too. The law says it can't be farther off than 10-20% (I remembered it as 15%), but modern meters are generally much closer to the mark than that. It's just that you shouldn't RELY on it's being better than that. Priscilla I checked out your website. 2g of dextrose seems like it could work. Of course, I weigh only 107 lbs.. so what would it be then, one smartie? heh. I didn't know cheese could take so long to digest, wow. Fawnhawk "Jenny" <lottadatacarbs@hotmail.com> <snipped> > Dr. Richard K. Bernstein gives a table for calculating blood sugar rises per > dose of pure glucose. It depends on weight. I have put it on my page at [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > > > Fawnhawk Fawnhawk, Probably 3 smartie discs would do it. There is a straight line relationship according to Bernstein. Kids weighing 70 lbs need only one gram. Until I read Bernstein on how to deal with low blood sugar I was a slave to the "roller coaster" because I'd always eat too much sugar, push up the sugar high enough to get another spike, plummet down and again, and be half dead all day long. Even worse, when I took the advice to eat a lot of protein, I'd end up with lows hours after eating the protein, with no idea where they were coming from. Reactive lows to huge protein overdoses were what made me stop low carbing a few years ago. I couldn't function, my brain was foggy all the time and lab testing showed me wandering around with blood sugar in the 70s a couple hours after eating bacon and eggs. The 2 gram thing really works for me, particularly when I exercise intensely which is when I am most at risk for very low blood sugars now. BTW, one thing I've also learned is that for me, estrogen supplementation intensifies the tendency to go low. When I went off it, I stopped having any low blood sugars. Unfortunately, I also started having unacceptable fasting blood sugars near 120 mg/dl. I prefer low to high, so I'm back on it. -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.2. Cut the carbs to respond to my email address! Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes and more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm > I checked out your website. 2g of dextrose seems like it could work. Of > course, I weigh only 107 lbs.. so what would it be then, one smartie? heh. [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > > > > > Fawnhawk Fawnhawk <fawnhawknospam@earthlink.net> quoth: >How can you calculate a BG rise down to the point per gram from a particular >food if the meters can be 10-20% off the mark? How did you figure it out? Why are you trying to do this? Priscilla Micro-managing mania, perhaps?? dave > Fawnhawk <fawnhawknospam@earthlink.net> quoth: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Priscilla > Micro-managing mania, perhaps?? This could be important information if one is trying to treat a hypo. Of course, the old theory of eating 15 g of fast acting carbs, then waiting 10 minutes, testing again, and repeating if needed is probably just as easy. SignatureType 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ Yeah, I agree. Either method for a hypo could be effective, though 15g sticks in my mind. Fawnhawk > > Micro-managing mania, perhaps?? > > This could be important information if one is trying to treat a hypo. Of > course, the old theory of eating 15 g of fast acting carbs, then waiting 10 > minutes, testing again, and repeating if needed is probably just as easy. I am not trying to do this. I was curious because I read others mentioning how so many grams raised their BG so many points. Looking at how my BG reacts to food, I wondered how that was accurate for them. Would be nice if it was that simple, heh. And like Julie said, it could be helpful to treat a low at any rate. Fawnhawk > Fawnhawk <fawnhawknospam@earthlink.net> quoth: > >How can you calculate a BG rise down to the point per gram from a particular [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Priscilla Fawnhawk <fawnhawknospam@earthlink.net> quoth: >I am not trying to do this. Just for clarification, by "doing this" I mean "calculating." > I was curious because I read others mentioning >how so many grams raised their BG so many points. Looking at how my BG >reacts to food, I wondered how that was accurate for them. Would be nice if >it was that simple, heh. And like Julie said, it could be helpful to treat >a low at any rate. Yes, I understand that now. Priscilla >Fawnhawk >> Fawnhawk <fawnhawknospam@earthlink.net> quoth: >> >How can you calculate a BG rise down to the point per gram from a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> Priscilla |
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