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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / October 2005Optimum BG Readings?
I have been reading this group for a while now and I have noticed some discrepancies between the conventional wisdom, as expressed here, and my personal results and would like to ask you opinions. The typical blood glucose target levels mentioned in this group are 140 at 1 hour PP and 120 at 2 hours PP. I find that with my limited carb diet my readings are consistently more like 110-120 at 1 hour PP and 120-125 at 2 hours PP, dropping after that to normal (less than 90) by 3 hours PP. My questions are; 1) What is your opinion of the most important measure, peak BG reading or the 2 hour mark? 2) Does anyone else exhibit the same kind BG curve as I have? My reading suggests that the 2 hour mark is a somewhat arbitrary and is used because most of the studies done in the past use it. It seems reasonable that the peak is more important that some arbitrary point in a curve which will vary, depending on the meal consumed. I expect that my diet is the reason my peak readings are later, so I would expect that others in this group, restricting their carb and/or eating a low GI diet would experience the same effect.  SignatureK'neH'a'Iw Uncloaking, Shields up. I can say that my levels are about the same as yours, of course depending on what I eat. Actually sometimes less, depending on exercise. As far as to the when, well personally IMHO, I like to use the highest mark to figure out what foods spike me. Of course that is usually the 1 hour mark. When I'm eating some alien food (extra mucus please) sometimes I'll skip the 2 hr and just go 1 and 3. The 3 hr just to make sure Mr. Coyote hasn't slipped me a Mickey. Or something that would make my BG's go Daffy. Stop me before I toon again! Signature-- t2_lurking geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom Do not mail to t2_lurking (auto-delete) ============================ "Off with her head!' the Queen shouted at the top of her voice. "Who cares for you?' said Alice, "You're nothing but a pack of pixels"! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ New to Diabetes? Go to: http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm ********************************************************* > I have been reading this group for a while now and I have > noticed some discrepancies between the conventional wisdom, as [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > so I would expect that others in this group, restricting their > carb and/or eating a low GI diet would experience the same effect. > I can say that my levels are about the same as yours, of course depending on > what I eat. Actually sometimes less, depending on exercise. Mine are sometimes less, but seldom more, unless I do something wrong or eat something unfamiliar. > As far as to the when, well personally IMHO, I like to use the highest mark > to figure out what foods spike me. Of course that is usually the 1 hour > mark. I'm consistently seeing the 2 hour mark as the highest test point, except occasionally when I eat more carbs than usual or sometimes when I eat something unfamiliar. Then it's more like the 1 hour mark. I'm really wondering about that difference. > When I'm eating some alien food (extra mucus please) sometimes I'll > skip the 2 hr and just go 1 and 3. The 3 hr just to make sure Mr. Coyote > hasn't slipped me a Mickey. Or something that would make my BG's go Daffy. > > Stop me before I toon again! SignatureK'neH'a'Iw Uncloaking, Shields up. So when you eat a normal meal for you your highest reading is at the 2 hr. mark? Hmmm. Mine almost never is. It always seems to be going down by then, as in it's lower than the 1 hr reading. Could this be...YMMV? Signature-- t2_lurking geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom Do not mail to t2_lurking (auto-delete) ============================ "Off with her head!' the Queen shouted at the top of her voice. "Who cares for you?' said Alice, "You're nothing but a pack of pixels"! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ New to Diabetes? Go to: http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm ********************************************************* > I'm consistently seeing the 2 hour mark as the highest test > point, except occasionally when I eat more carbs than usual or [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > > > Stop me before I toon again! > So when you eat a normal meal for you your highest reading is at the 2 hr. > mark? My highest test result is at 2 hours. I haven't tested more often enough times to be sure if it peaked higher and is starting down by then. It may be that my diet, which is sort of low carb with most of the carbs being complex ones, is causing the peak to be delayed. It may be that most of the times I do good testing is at dinner, (I tend to skip breakfast and often forget to test at at the right times at lunch) and that I usually have a glass of wine or two with dinner or it could be something else. SignatureK'neH'a'Iw Uncloaking, Shields up. K'neH'a'Iw and t2_lurking: If you guys do tests every 15 minutes for 2 hours with various kinds of foods (or combinations), you will see a peak at different points. I did this with the usual breakfast I eat as well as with rolled oats and glucose tablets (12 grams) just to see my glucose response. It probably makes a difference depending on a number of factors including the amount of residual first phase insulin secretion that you have. Fat can slow down the glucose response. Then there is the infamous pizza which may have peak glucose response after 3 hours. Fiber can slow down glucose response. Frank > > So when you eat a normal meal for you your highest reading is at the 2 hr. > > mark? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Uncloaking, Shields up. Assuming I haven't gone crazy with the carbs I'm usually down under 110 at 2 hours. I'll peak anywhere from half an hour to an hour after eating up to 25 grams of carbs (with Precose). If I eat too much I'll still peak at an hour but I'll be fairly close to the peak at two hours too. Plus I'll feel poisoned for most of that in between hour. I try not to do that. This past week when I've been eating a great deal of carby crap I am noticing a lot more readings in the 80s than usual. Usually I don't get much below 95. I assume the 80s are a reactive low following a spike. -- Jenny Cut the carbs to respond to my email address! Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes and more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm > > I can say that my levels are about the same as yours, of course depending on > > what I eat. Actually sometimes less, depending on exercise. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Uncloaking, Shields up. the peak is more important to know than just a reading taking 2 hours after your meal. besides, do you eat in one minute? what IS 2 hours AFTER a meal, anyway? from the first bite or the last? It's a stupid way to check your blood. checking at 2 hours regardless of the type of meal, is futile. high fat meals peak later on. pizza will peak many hours later. check often, and learn to check at the appropriate time for the type of foods you are eating. don't go by the clock. dave > I have been reading this group for a while now and I have noticed some > discrepancies between the conventional wisdom, as expressed here, and my [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > would expect that others in this group, restricting their carb and/or > eating a low GI diet would experience the same effect. the last two sentences sound contradictory, so let me explain: don't go by an arbitrary time from meal to checking, as much as checking at the times that you have learned through experience (much testing) will be at the peak bg times. that's hard to predict. what's easy to predict is that only checking after 2 hours is inherently inadequate for good control unless your bg's just don't move much, in which case you are lucky! dave > the peak is more important to know than just a reading taking 2 hours > after your meal. besides, do you eat in one minute? what IS 2 hours [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >> would expect that others in this group, restricting their carb and/or >> eating a low GI diet would experience the same effect. >what IS 2 hours >AFTER a meal, anyway? from the first bite or the last? First bite is the recommendation I've always read. Susan it is from the first bite. your body doesn't wait till your done eating to start breaking the food down minute it hits your tongue the body starts working at it. SignatureRK - t1 In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Susan What meds are you taking, if any, to give you this BG profile? I take metformin and Starlix, and my profile is the opposite of yours. 120-130 at 1 hour 110-120 at 2 hours 85-95 at 3 hours My BG will then gradually creep up to 100-110. It is usually 105 fasting. I take this as a sign that it may be time to add insulin (Lantus) to my treatment. TerryR > I have been reading this group for a while now and I have > noticed some discrepancies between the conventional wisdom, as [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > so I would expect that others in this group, restricting their > carb and/or eating a low GI diet would experience the same effect. Why???? Those numbers are fine! Are you trying for my hypos? dave snip > My BG will then gradually creep up to 100-110. It is usually > 105 fasting. I take this as a sign that it may be time to > add insulin (Lantus) to my treatment. LOL! another typo from me: "my hypos" should be "more hypos". DUH! :) dave > Why???? Those numbers are fine! Are you trying for my hypos? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> 105 fasting. I take this as a sign that it may be time to >> add insulin (Lantus) to my treatment. If you added insulin to your treatment, what level would you have at the 3 hour point after eating? You would be hypo before you reached that point. You wouldn't want to live on glucose tabs and sweets to constantly fight the lows. Your numbers are fine. > What meds are you taking, if any, to give you this BG > profile? I take metformin and Starlix, and my profile is the [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > > effect. I would think it would be about the same as without the Lantus. The 3 hour BG is only low because of the Starlix. Starlix (at least in me) will never drive my BG below 85 because of its "turn off" factor. I feel that with the Lantus my fasting BG's and preprandial BG's would me lower. I also think my A1c would be lower, the last one was 62. TerryR > If you added insulin to your treatment, what level would you have at the > 3 hour point after eating? You would be hypo before you reached that [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > > > > effect. > I have been reading this group for a while now and I have > noticed some discrepancies between the conventional wisdom, as [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > hours PP, dropping after that to normal (less than 90) by 3 > hours PP. Hi there, I am the much the same. I peak at the 2hr mark. The main difference between us is that after that time, the decline in bg back to "normal" is slower, and takes 3 1/2 to 4 hrs. Then I am ready for my next meal. It's why I rarely eat between meals. I eat to my meter, as they say. The only time I snack is if the meal is delayed. If I don't have something to " tide me over", my bg drops too low intitially ( a mild hypo), and then my liver releases glucose to compensate, and I go too high! My control gets all messed up. > My questions are; > > 1) What is your opinion of the most important measure, peak BG > reading or the 2 hour mark? For me, as you can see, the 2 hr mark is my peak. So it's the most important in my case. > 2) Does anyone else exhibit the same kind BG curve as I have? From reading of the other posts, the answer is obviously NO. Everyone seems to have their own individual bg profile. > My reading suggests that the 2 hour mark is a somewhat arbitrary > and is used because most of the studies done in the past use it. > It seems reasonable that the peak is more important that some > arbitrary point in a curve which will vary, depending on the > meal consumed. I aways surmised that it was "chosen" because the majority peaked at 2hrs more than at any other time. But I can see that it isn't always so. You see, it has always worked for me! > I expect that my diet is the reason my peak readings are later, > so I would expect that others in this group, restricting their > carb and/or eating a low GI diet would experience the same effect. I never know exactly what label would describe my diet. I eat a wide variety and a lot of low carb density vegetables, plus moderate amounts of non-carb foods. I even have a little carb dense food on occasion, with the emphasis on "little". There are so many factors involved in the complex functioning of the systems of a diabetic person, like degree of insulin resistance, whether it is T1 or T2, the length of time since the development and dx of diabetes, how well it was controlled, by what means it is controlled, and personal endocrine functions for example. So truly YMMV. Trust your meter, do what you can reasonably do to control your bg and maintain general good health, and accept that there will always be exceptions to the the rules. Guidelines are just *guidelines*, not black and white standards that only apply to simple non-living systems. We are all different. As the old joke says "Viva la difference!" Annette You left out an important thing. Target glucose levels are not 140 at 1 hour... they are UNDER 140 at 1 hour. It's not that we should aim for 140, but we should aim to be UNDER 140. You are. That's great!! Jennifer > I have been reading this group for a while now and I have noticed some > discrepancies between the conventional wisdom, as expressed here, and my [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > would expect that others in this group, restricting their carb and/or > eating a low GI diet would experience the same effect. > You left out an important thing. > > Target glucose levels are not 140 at 1 hour... they are UNDER 140 at 1 > hour. I think I knew that, but didn't really state it:0 > It's not that we should aim for 140, but we should aim to be UNDER 140. In my case It will frequently be higher at 2 hours that at 1 hour. Sometimes over the 120 limit recommended for 2 hours, usually by a small amount. But is seems my peak is almost always less than 140 but is usually later than one hour. > You are. > > That's great!! > > Jennifer SignatureK'neH'a'Iw Uncloaking, Shields up. > > You left out an important thing. > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > usually by a small amount. But is seems my peak is almost always > less than 140 but is usually later than one hour. I'm wondering if the goal should be stated as "under 140 at peak and under 120 an hour from peak." But that might be too complicated for some folks to grasp. Priscilla Bastian wrote: <dunno, message has expired> Doc says nothing to worry about especially with my numbers being so low recently. Same with minor neuropathy pain it's probably just a side effect of getting under better control. Some research on the net backs up this decision. w00t! Bastian. |
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