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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2008The Heartscan Blog
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/ Saturday, May 17, 2008 American Diabetes Association These are actual quotes from the American Diabetes Association website: Myth #5: If you have diabetes, you should only eat small amounts of starchy foods, such as bread, potatoes and pasta. Starchy foods are part of a healthy meal plan. What is important is the portion size. Whole grain breads, cereals, pasta, rice and starchy vegetables like potatoes, yams, peas and corn can be included in your meals and snacks. The key is portions. For most people with diabetes, having 3-4 servings of carbohydrate-containing foods is about right. Whole grain starchy foods are also a good source of fiber, which helps keep your gut healthy.You decide to swap two slices of bread for two slices of low-calorie bread and have the cookies -- it's an even trade. Your total amount of carbohydrate remains the same for the meal. My point? As I often say, while the "official" organizations like the American Diabetes Association, the American heart Association, and the USDA dominate the message provided to mainstream Americans, to those of us who know better, they have become irrelevant. You can see how obviously boneheaded their advice is. I'd go so far as to say that, if you want diabetes, follow the American Diabetes Association diet. If you have diabetes, and you'd like to accelerate complications like kidney disease, heart disease, and neuropathy, then follow the American Diabetes Association diet. I'm going to bet that American Diabetes Association sponsors like Lilly, Novo Nordisk, Merck, Pfizer, Abbott ($1 million or more annual contributions) and Cadbury Schweppes (3-year, multi-million dollar support for Weight Loss Matters program) will continue to charge full-speed ahead to maintain the status quo. And if you gain, say, 30 or 40 lbs eating these foods. . . well, we've got a treatment for that. Merck's Januvia , for instance, can help you out for only about $200 a month! Looking at the facts this way, and it seems like some cheap conspiracy theory: They're all out to get us. Dispense information that virtually guarantees propagation of the disease, and all your friends and cronies profit. I don't know if it is or it isn't, but it sure smells like it sometimes. Dr. William Davis,Cardiologist and author of the book, Track Your Plaque No comment Gys > http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/ > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > No comment > Gys Smarter to simple eat less, down to the right amount. Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic... Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ, Andrew <>< -- http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17? Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD formulated on Monday : >> http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/ >> [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Smarter to simple eat less, down to the right amount. What's this "right amount" you keep beating on about everyday? Does this "right amount" vary from person to person? Thanks. satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > What's this "right amount" you keep beating on about everyday? An omer. May we, who are Jesus' disciples, continue to rebuke you at each GOD- given oportunity as GOD desires: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/31c3b88286afc5bd? <>< May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful 2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as the Son of Man ... ... by being hungrier: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f891e617d10bd689? Hunger is wonderful ! ! ! It's how we know what GOD desires, which is what is good. Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve paid for with their and our immortal lives. "Blessed are you who hunger NOW... ... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21) Amen. Here is a Spirit-guided exegesis of Luke 6:21 given in hopes of promoting much greater understanding: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/cc2aa8f8a4d41360? Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic... Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ, Andrew <>< -- http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17? Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD presented the following explanation : >>> Smarter to simple eat less, down to the right amount. >> >> What's this "right amount" you keep beating on about everyday? > > An omer. Thank you for your answer re: "right amount". Well.. does this "right amount" vary from person to person? What considerations do you take to determine this right amount? Thanks. satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Thank you for your answer re: "right amount". Laus Deo ! > Well.. does this "right amount" vary from person to person? It does not vary from one adult to another adult human. > What > considerations do you take to determine this right amount? It is pre-determined by GOD's design. > Thanks. Laus Deo ! May we, who are Jesus' disciples, continue to rebuke you at each GOD- given opportunity as GOD desires: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/31c3b88286afc5bd? <>< May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful 2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as the Son of Man ... ... by being hungrier: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f891e617d10bd689? Hunger is wonderful ! ! ! It's how we know what GOD desires, which is what is good. Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve paid for with their and our immortal lives. "Blessed are you who hunger NOW... ... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21) Amen. Here is a Spirit-guided exegesis of Luke 6:21 given in hopes of promoting much greater understanding: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/cc2aa8f8a4d41360? Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier... Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ, Andrew <>< -- http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17? Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD explained about 2PD diet on 19/05/2008 : >> Well.. does this "right amount" vary from person to person? > > It does not vary from one adult to another adult human. But every adult has different requirements. >> What >> considerations do you take to determine this right amount? > > It is pre-determined by GOD's design. > Laus Deo ! So your diet does not take requirements of individuals into consideration? satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > But every adult has different requirements. Those requirements are not known to man but are known to GOD. By GOD, those requirements are met at the intestinal brush border and not at the mouth, by us, > >> What > >> considerations do you take to determine this right amount? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > So your diet does not take requirements of individuals into > consideration? The exact nutritional requirements of individuals at any given instant in time is not knowable by us. It is GOD, Who knows what is unknowable by us. The 2PD-OMER Approach honors and glorifies GOD's omniscience. This is why it continues to always work because the 2PD-OMER Approach is inspired by the Holy Spirit and is in accordance with GOD's will. May we, who are Jesus' disciples, continue to rebuke you at each GOD- given opportunity as GOD desires: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/31c3b88286afc5bd? <>< May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful 2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as the Son of Man ... ... by being hungrier: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f891e617d10bd689? Hunger is wonderful ! ! ! It's how we know what GOD desires, which is what is good. Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve paid for with their and our immortal lives. "Blessed are you who hunger NOW... ... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21) Amen. Here is a Spirit-guided exegesis of Luke 6:21 given in hopes of promoting much greater understanding: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/cc2aa8f8a4d41360? Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier... Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ, Andrew <>< -- http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17? Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD explains why the "right amount" is an "omer" : >>>> Well.. does this "right amount" vary from person to person? >>> >>> It does not vary from one adult to another adult human. In other words an athelete and someone who is terminally ill have to eat the same amount? >> But every adult has different requirements. > > Those requirements are not known to man but are known to GOD. If they are known to GOD then why are you saying it is an omer? Is it your interpretation, or what? > By GOD, those requirements are met at the intestinal brush border and > not at the mouth, by us, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>> >>> It is pre-determined by GOD's design. How come only you have have heard that omer is the pre-determined right amount? Why have other followers of god not heard the same thing? >> So your diet does not take requirements of individuals into >> consideration? > > The exact nutritional requirements of individuals at any given instant > in time is not knowable by us. But you have stated that an "omer" is the "right amount" per 24 hours. > It is GOD, Who knows what is unknowable by us. How did you learn that the "omer" was the right amount then? Who told you this? > http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/ > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > No comment > Gys Just for the hell of it, and to settle the question once and for all, what I would really like to see is - a bunch of us eating from an ADA provided menu - breakfast, lunch and dinner - for one day with 1 and 2 hour pp tests after each meal. I don't mean "include this and that in each meal," but rather specifically recommended meals. Then, post the results on a website. Interesting, huh? Obviously, most of us, myself included, will say, "I already know what will happen," or something along that line, but we can't actually point at stats and say, "See?" John >Just for the hell of it, and to settle the question once and for all, what I >would really like to see is - a bunch of us eating from an ADA provided [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >John Unfortunately I lost all of my old excel records when I had a hard disc crash three years ago. But, on those I had exactly what you describe. I started those records before I read "test, test, test" and I was being trained in the Diabetes Australia (read ADA) diet by a dietician. The numbers weren't pretty. Far too many way over 10(180) at two hours - or occasionally way too low at two hours. It wasn't until I started one-hour tests that I discovered those were reactive lows. But some of the numbers weren't bad at FBG and pre-dinner; the only times I was supposed to test. Even then I did some post-prandials, but only at two hours. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter. Angkor Wat http://loraltravel.blogspot.com >>Just for the hell of it, and to settle the question once and for all, what >>I [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Cheers, Alan, I haven't actually seen an approved daily menu... probably haven't looked hard enough. All I've seen is "include this and that." John >>>Just for the hell of it, and to settle the question once and for all, >>>what I [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > John Just did a quick search for "approved" menus. Found a few on the ADA site. They're for sale...hehe. John >>>> Just for the hell of it, and to settle the question once and for >>>> all, what I [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Just did a quick search for "approved" menus. Found a few on the ADA > site. They're for sale...hehe. Oh, what a surprise! That website has more books etc for sale than a bookshop! >> http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/ >> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >> >> No comment Yes he's right the ADA does look more like it's actually perpetuating diabetes when you look at their dietary advice. I wrote much the same about DUK and certain fuckwits tried to have my account nuked. I suppose like any other commercial concern their first mandate is to grow their customer base. >Just for the hell of it, and to settle the question once and for all, what I >would really like to see is - a bunch of us eating from an ADA provided [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >already know what will happen," or something along that line, but we can't >actually point at stats and say, "See?" Well I wasn't testing at the time but I can certify that my lipids and BP became so much worse so rapidly that I was accused of not following the diet, and in retrospect I was probably running my BG up to 180 and back several times a day, going purely by symptoms. I *did* try eating from the diet sheet I was given my my current GP for one day, if I could remember which day I'd post the numbers, >Yes he's right the ADA does look more like it's actually perpetuating >diabetes when you look at their dietary advice. I just answered a guy, newly diagnosed, on the ADA Recently Diagnosed forum whose friend had suggested homeopathy as a means of treating diabetes. http://tinyurl.com/4mpkf2 I wrote, among other comments, that homeopathy was a ludicrous concept for treating diabetes. It wasn't until after I sent off the post that it occurred to me that the ADA dietary recommendations could be seen as a homeopathic treatment method. From Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy "Homeopathic practitioners contend that an ill person can be treated using a substance that can produce, in a healthy person, symptoms similar to those of the illness." If that isn't a good description of using increased carbohydrate consumption to treat diabetes, I don't know what is. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter. Angkor Wat http://loraltravel.blogspot.com Honey isnt for bg control??..dang..lol What if i smoke and or snort some sugar..surely that will work?.... KROM >>Yes he's right the ADA does look more like it's actually perpetuating >>diabetes when you look at their dietary advice. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Angkor Wat > http://loraltravel.blogspot.com >>Yes he's right the ADA does look more like it's actually perpetuating >>diabetes when you look at their dietary advice. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >carbohydrate consumption to treat diabetes, I don't know >what is. You are a Very Wicked Person >I just answered a guy, newly diagnosed, on the ADA Recently >Diagnosed forum whose friend had suggested homeopathy as a >means of treating diabetes. >http://tinyurl.com/4mpkf2 >I wrote, among other comments, that homeopathy was a >ludicrous concept for treating diabetes. <snort> That's some more screen wipes you owe me : ) Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >> http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/ >> [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > after each meal. I don't mean "include this and that in each meal," but > rather specifically recommended meals. Then, post the results on a website. Can't you count the ways in which that would be disputable? It wouldn't settle the question at all. And since it's trivially easy for an individual diabetic to eat an ADA recommended type of breakfast and test the resulting BGs, I don't see the point.  SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] > >> http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/ > >> [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > Can't you count the ways in which that would be disputable? Without the weighing of the meals, your methodology will remain unscientific. Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic... Marana tha Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ, Andrew <>< -- http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17? >Just for the hell of it, and to settle the question once and for all, what I >would really like to see is - a bunch of us eating from an ADA provided [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >already know what will happen," or something along that line, but we can't >actually point at stats and say, "See?" Johnnie, I have extensive meal logs going right back to my diagnosis, including the 2-week period when I ate the UK equivalent of the ADA diet. I'm sure this table will get munged - but the columns go, carb grams, protein grams, fat grams, calories, MMOL up from baseline at 1 hour and at 2 hours. Multiply by 18.2 to get US-style numbers, and remember that these are hikes from the pre-meal numbers, which are shown in the lower table. The two-hour ones also generally include a 30-min walk. The worst numbers are when I was experimenting with low-GI foods, as my dietician recommended. sm 3bean salad slice bread salad leaves lots prawns 37 28 2 281 3.1 1.1 squash, chickpea & prawn thai curry, 3 tb rice 3.1 1.5 pad thai - mung beans 3.1 2.8 2 slices low-carb bread, turkey ham, ratatouille 21 28 5.5 250 3.2 0.6 2 boiled eggs, small slice bread 13.1 15.2 11.6 220 3.4 3.8 2 crackers, mackerel & cottage cheese, mushroom pate, salad 3.4 -0.6 tortilla, turkey, crème frais, salad,orange 3.7 2.2 lo-carb breakfast bar 3.8 3.1 half cheese sarnie, lentil & veg soup 3.9 -0.8 egg, 2 bacon, tomato, 1/2 slice bread 13 17.5 20.5 301 4.2 4.2 slice bread & spread, turkey ham, bean salad, 3 cherry toms 24 18 6 216 5.1 6.1 turkey stir-fry, broccolli, terijaki & black bean sauce, 1 tbsp rice. 5.6 2.4 egg, 2 bacon, sausage, 1/2 bread 7.5 19.2 29 369 7.7 3.4 apricot bran cereal + milk 49 8 3 241 8 4.5 porridge w water, almonds, apricots 32 8 7 217 8 >2 2 low GI blueberry muffins 46 7 12 324 8 6.9 11/06/2004 12-Jun 13-Jun 14-Jun 15-Jun 16-Jun 17-Jun Fasting 12.6 12 12.3 11 12.5 14.4 before lunch 16.1 14.4 15.2 8.8 9.2 12.2 11.9 before supper 10.8 10.7 12.6 8.7 12.9 8.1 bedtime 15.8 14.4 10.5 13.1 12.1 15.5 7.1 ave 16.1 14.4 15.2 13.1 12.1 15.5 14.4 This was, thank goodness, 4 years ago. Today my fasting was 4.3; my 1-hour, after a lunch of asparagus tips dipped in bernaise sauce and a bowl of strawberries, yoghurt, creme frais and chocolate sauce with flaked almonds, was 6.6. Then, if a meal raised me more than 3mmol I dumped it; today I'm primarily interested in never going above 7.8. HTH :D Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > 11/06/2004 12-Jun 13-Jun 14-Jun 15-Jun 16-Jun 17-Jun >Fasting 12.6 12 12.3 11 12.5 14.4 >before lunch 16.1 14.4 15.2 8.8 9.2 12.2 11.9 >before supper 10.8 10.7 12.6 8.7 12.9 8.1 >bedtime 15.8 14.4 10.5 13.1 12.1 15.5 7.1 >ave 16.1 14.4 15.2 13.1 12.1 15.5 14.4 I tried to unmung the first section but failed although the menu is quite clear. It looks so "healthy"; why, there was hardly a spoonful of fat in the whole week:-) This may help those across the pond see how bad those numbers were: 11-Jun 12-Jun 13-Jun 14-Jun 15-Jun 16-Jun 17-Jun Fasting 227 216 222 198 225 259 pre lunch 290 259 274 159 166 220 214 pre supper 195 193 227 157 232 146 bedtime 285 259 189 236 218 279 128 av 290 259 274 236 218 279 259 It also shows no effective improvement in those terrible numbers over that week. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter. Angkor Wat http://loraltravel.blogspot.com >> 11/06/2004 12-Jun 13-Jun 14-Jun 15-Jun 16-Jun 17-Jun >>Fasting 12.6 12 12.3 11 12.5 14.4 [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Cheers, Alan, My God! Not an acceptable number, anywhere. Thanks, Nicky (for the log)... Alan (for the equivalents). John |
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