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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2008

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Fibre Question

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David - 15 May 2008 21:12 GMT
If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs? i.e. if
the carb content of a glass of juice is 10 gms carbs and I mix in 3 gms
fibre, would I be having in real terms 7 gms carbs?

Thanks
Julie Bove - 15 May 2008 21:14 GMT
> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs? i.e.
> if the carb content of a glass of juice is 10 gms carbs and I mix in 3 gms
> fibre, would I be having in real terms 7 gms carbs?

No.  I don't think so.
bj - 15 May 2008 21:25 GMT
> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs? i.e.
> if the carb content of a glass of juice is 10 gms carbs and I mix in 3 gms
> fibre, would I be having in real terms 7 gms carbs?

No, you'd have 13g of carbs with 3 of them being fibre; that's still 10
"real" grams carbs.
bj
David - 15 May 2008 22:00 GMT
>> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs? i.e.
>> if the carb content of a glass of juice is 10 gms carbs and I mix in 3
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> "real" grams carbs.
> bj

Damn!  (thanks bj)
Alan S - 16 May 2008 00:21 GMT
>If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs? i.e. if
>the carb content of a glass of juice is 10 gms carbs and I mix in 3 gms
>fibre, would I be having in real terms 7 gms carbs?
>
>Thanks

No.

But, if you are a diabetic, I don't recommend that you drink
juice unless you are correcting a low.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
David - 16 May 2008 01:06 GMT
>>If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs? i.e.
>>if
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> But, if you are a diabetic, I don't recommend that you drink
> juice unless you are correcting a low.

Thanks Alan
I didnt explain - I lift weights and have protein supplement - I blend the
juice so as far as I know that would be equivalent to eating i.e. it has all
the pulp

> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
> d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Angkor Wat
> http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
MI - 16 May 2008 04:00 GMT
On 5/15/08 5:06 PM, in article
482cd05b$0$17505$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au, "David"
<forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>>> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs? i.e.
>>> if
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>> Angkor Wat
>> http://loraltravel.blogspot.com

I was told in class that pureed fruit is not the same as whole fruit. The
blending breaks down the fibre.

Signature

Martha T2 Canada
1500mg. Metformin, 4mg. Avandia

David - 16 May 2008 11:12 GMT
> On 5/15/08 5:06 PM, in article
> 482cd05b$0$17505$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au, "David"
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> I was told in class that pureed fruit is not the same as whole fruit. The
> blending breaks down the fibre.

I will try to find out. Thanks for the tip
W. Baker - 16 May 2008 21:04 GMT
: > I was told in class that pureed fruit is not the same as whole fruit. The
: > blending breaks down the fibre.

: I will try to find out. Thanks for the tip

Just think of a raw apple and a half cup of no sugar added applesauce.  
the applesauce will drive our bgs up faster, although, it is ok if eaten
in great moderation.

Wendy
David - 16 May 2008 22:08 GMT
> : > I was told in class that pureed fruit is not the same as whole fruit.
> The
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> the applesauce will drive our bgs up faster, although, it is ok if eaten
> in great moderation.

Yes, makes sense - thanks Wendty

> Wendy
Alan S - 16 May 2008 05:24 GMT
>> But, if you are a diabetic, I don't recommend that you drink
>> juice unless you are correcting a low.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>juice so as far as I know that would be equivalent to eating i.e. it has all
>the pulp

What are your BG's a half-hour later? When I used to drink
juice, back when I first discovered "Jennifer's Advice" it
used to give me a fast high peak about 30 minutes after
drinking it.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
David - 16 May 2008 11:14 GMT
>>> But, if you are a diabetic, I don't recommend that you drink
>>> juice unless you are correcting a low.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> used to give me a fast high peak about 30 minutes after
> drinking it.

I checked today - normally after 2 hours I am 7.2 - after 1/2 hr  8.4

> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
> d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Angkor Wat
> http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
Alan S - 16 May 2008 11:20 GMT
>> What are your BG's a half-hour later? When I used to drink
>> juice, back when I first discovered "Jennifer's Advice" it
>> used to give me a fast high peak about 30 minutes after
>> drinking it.
>
>I checked today - normally after 2 hours I am 7.2 - after 1/2 hr  8.4

Too high. Eat the fruit, not the juice nor the pulp. I eat
at least a piece a day as halves for snacks, or the
equivalent in berries.

When I say too high I also include "normally after 2 hours I
am 7.2". Time to re-read this, and add some one-hour tests:
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
David - 16 May 2008 22:05 GMT
>>> What are your BG's a half-hour later? When I used to drink
>>> juice, back when I first discovered "Jennifer's Advice" it
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> am 7.2". Time to re-read this, and add some one-hour tests:
> http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm

Thanks Alan - I am having a wake up call here

> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
> d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Angkor Wat
> http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
David - 17 May 2008 16:42 GMT
>>> What are your BG's a half-hour later? When I used to drink
>>> juice, back when I first discovered "Jennifer's Advice" it
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> am 7.2". Time to re-read this, and add some one-hour tests:
> http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm

Thanks Alan appreciate the excellent advice and links

> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
> d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Angkor Wat
> http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
Nicky - 16 May 2008 12:57 GMT
>I checked today - normally after 2 hours I am 7.2 - after 1/2 hr  8.4

OW! Have you come across this link?
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
David - 16 May 2008 22:06 GMT
>>I checked today - normally after 2 hours I am 7.2 - after 1/2 hr  8.4
>
> OW! Have you come across this link?
> http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/

Thanks for that excellent link - I am getting scared! I have a lot of
rethinking to do about what I considered 'acceptable'
thanks very much

> Nicky.
> T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
> D&E, 100ug thyroxine
> Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
Nicky - 16 May 2008 23:18 GMT
>>>I checked today - normally after 2 hours I am 7.2 - after 1/2 hr  8.4
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>rethinking to do about what I considered 'acceptable'
>thanks very much

Jenny's just put the contents of that site into a book, which is a
thoroughly good read.

It was her analysis of the research that said that anything over about
7.8 at ANY time is dangerous that formed my post-dx eating habits. I
reversed my neuropathy as a result of her advice, using Jennifer's
test,test,test method to implement it - I think Alan gave you that
link, the Newly Diagnosed one. I owe a great deal to those two ladies
(and Alan and several others too!).

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
David - 17 May 2008 16:46 GMT
>>>>I checked today - normally after 2 hours I am 7.2 - after 1/2 hr  8.4
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> link, the Newly Diagnosed one. I owe a great deal to those two ladies
> (and Alan and several others too!).

Well I am totally changing my thinking and direction.
My doctor was wrong and allowed me to be complacent - he seems to think
below 7 is excellent control and that seems to be 1 point too high.
I am totally grateful for the response I have had here.
Thanks Nicky

> Nicky.
> T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
> D&E, 100ug thyroxine
> Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
Nicky - 18 May 2008 08:52 GMT
>Well I am totally changing my thinking and direction.
>My doctor was wrong and allowed me to be complacent - he seems to think
>below 7 is excellent control and that seems to be 1 point too high.
>I am totally grateful for the response I have had here.

Well, if you take that as a bg reading and not an A1c, he's not far
wrong :P DUK ran a campaign called "Life's Better Under 7" a few years
ago; I really like the T-shirt, but not precisely for the reasons they
intended!

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
David - 18 May 2008 09:57 GMT
>>Well I am totally changing my thinking and direction.
>>My doctor was wrong and allowed me to be complacent - he seems to think
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> ago; I really like the T-shirt, but not precisely for the reasons they
> intended!

Ha! no he meant it as A1c - he is happy for me to be 7!

> Nicky.
> T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
> D&E, 100ug thyroxine
> Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
MI - 18 May 2008 20:10 GMT
On 5/18/08 1:57 AM, in article
482fef49$0$1024$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au, "David"
<forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>>> Well I am totally changing my thinking and direction.
>>> My doctor was wrong and allowed me to be complacent - he seems to think
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>> D&E, 100ug thyroxine
>> Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25

My endo was happy for me to be under 7 once too. Then he was happy for me to
be under 6.5. Now he's happy for me to be under 6. I think it's the old
story of the donkey and the carrot.

Signature

Martha T2 Canada
1500mg. Metformin, 4mg. Avandia

David - 18 May 2008 22:29 GMT
> On 5/18/08 1:57 AM, in article
> 482fef49$0$1024$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au, "David"
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> be under 6.5. Now he's happy for me to be under 6. I think it's the old
> story of the donkey and the carrot.

Yes a lot of heartache could hve been avoided if we had that knowledge years
ago
John - 19 May 2008 18:49 GMT
> Yes a lot of heartache could hve been avoided if we had that knowledge years
> ago

Literally, in my case. ;o)

John C.
Alan S - 18 May 2008 23:43 GMT
>On 5/18/08 1:57 AM, in article
>482fef49$0$1024$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au, "David"
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>be under 6.5. Now he's happy for me to be under 6. I think it's the old
>story of the donkey and the carrot.

Sounds like a story about a good endo to me:-)

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
Quentin Grady - 27 May 2008 09:12 GMT
>Sounds like a story about a good endo to me:-)
>
>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.

I thought that too.  

One who was prepared to learn themselves as more evidence came to hand
and to encourage their patients as they progressed.  

Best of both worlds: good scientific attitude and good practitioner.
Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Quentin Grady - 18 May 2008 10:23 GMT
>Well, if you take that as a bg reading and not an A1c, he's not far
>wrong :P DUK ran a campaign called "Life's Better Under 7" a few years
>ago; I really like the T-shirt, but not precisely for the reasons they
>intended!
>
>Nicky.

As a bloke, I'm enjoying the joke and I'm laughing discreetly.  
Hey, that way maybe no one will notice I don't get it ... well not
entirely.  

Best wishes,
Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Nicky - 20 May 2008 08:57 GMT
>>Well, if you take that as a bg reading and not an A1c, he's not far
>>wrong :P DUK ran a campaign called "Life's Better Under 7" a few years
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Hey, that way maybe no one will notice I don't get it ... well not
>entirely.  

Heh :D I'm wearing the T today, as it happens - it's annual vampire
day, strikes me as appropriate wear - you have my permission to
imagine away, Quentin :P

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
Quentin Grady - 18 May 2008 10:18 GMT
>Well I am totally changing my thinking and direction.
>My doctor was wrong and allowed me to be complacent - he seems to think
>below 7 is excellent control and that seems to be 1 point too high.
>I am totally grateful for the response I have had here.
>Thanks Nicky

Good on you BOTH.  
Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

David - 18 May 2008 12:40 GMT
>>Well I am totally changing my thinking and direction.
>>My doctor was wrong and allowed me to be complacent - he seems to think
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Good on you BOTH.

G'day g'day and thank you Quentin for all of your informative posts
Quentin Grady - 26 May 2008 07:21 GMT
>>>Well I am totally changing my thinking and direction.
>>>My doctor was wrong and allowed me to be complacent - he seems to think
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>G'day g'day and thank you Quentin for all of your informative posts

G'day G'day David.

 Great to see you've mastered the dialect.  

Helps make me feel right at home, well back home if you know what I
mean. Back doing something relevant.

Best wishes, .
Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

David - 27 May 2008 10:59 GMT
>>>>Well I am totally changing my thinking and direction.
>>>>My doctor was wrong and allowed me to be complacent - he seems to think
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Best wishes, .

Ha ha ! yes got the lingo down pat now. Thank you Quentin
Chris Malcolm - 16 May 2008 10:07 GMT
>>>If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs? i.e.
>>>if
>>>the carb content of a glass of juice is 10 gms carbs and I mix in 3 gms
>>>fibre, would I be having in real terms 7 gms carbs?

>> No.
>>
>> But, if you are a diabetic, I don't recommend that you drink
>> juice unless you are correcting a low.

> Thanks Alan
> I didnt explain - I lift weights and have protein supplement - I blend the
> juice so as far as I know that would be equivalent to eating i.e. it has all
> the pulp

As far as chemical constitution is concerned, yes, but not as far as
physical structure and absorption rates are concerned. The blender
chews the stuff into far smaller bits than your teeth could ever
manage, so the soluble constituents hit your bloodstream much faster.

Signature

Chris Malcolm        cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk              DoD #205
IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

David - 16 May 2008 11:16 GMT
>>>>If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs?
>>>>i.e.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> chews the stuff into far smaller bits than your teeth could ever
> manage, so the soluble constituents hit your bloodstream much faster.

Good info. Will experiment with BG after each way - what you say makes
sense. Thanks
MI - 16 May 2008 00:24 GMT
On 5/15/08 1:12 PM, in article
482c9966$0$30466$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au, "David"
<forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs? i.e. if
> the carb content of a glass of juice is 10 gms carbs and I mix in 3 gms
> fibre, would I be having in real terms 7 gms carbs?
>
> Thanks

Why don't you just eat the fruit? It would be fresh and have all its
vitamins and minerals. First thing I was taught at the Diabetes Teaching
Centre I went to--- No fruit juice, unless it's to treat a hypo; eat the
fruit.

Signature

Martha T2 Canada
1500mg. Metformin, 4mg. Avandia

David - 16 May 2008 01:07 GMT
> On 5/15/08 1:12 PM, in article
> 482c9966$0$30466$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au, "David"
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Centre I went to--- No fruit juice, unless it's to treat a hypo; eat the
> fruit.

Thansk Martha
I am blending the juice so that I can mix in a protein powder
I thought that is much the same as eating it as far as I know the fibre is
intact
Julie Bove - 16 May 2008 01:16 GMT
>> On 5/15/08 1:12 PM, in article
>> 482c9966$0$30466$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au, "David"
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> I thought that is much the same as eating it as far as I know the fibre is
> intact

You might try tomato juice (lower in carbs), Diet V-8 Splash (also lower in
carbs), or something like Crystal Lite.
David - 16 May 2008 01:51 GMT
>>> On 5/15/08 1:12 PM, in article
>>> 482c9966$0$30466$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au, "David"
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> You might try tomato juice (lower in carbs), Diet V-8 Splash (also lower
> in carbs), or something like Crystal Lite.
Great idea thanks Julie - will go for V8 - I get the low sodium one as well
Julie Bove - 16 May 2008 03:17 GMT
>>>> On 5/15/08 1:12 PM, in article
>>>> 482c9966$0$30466$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au, "David"
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> Great idea thanks Julie - will go for V8 - I get the low sodium one as
> well

This is not the regular V-8.  It's sweetened with Splenda.
Nicky - 16 May 2008 08:59 GMT
>Great idea thanks Julie - will go for V8 - I get the low sodium one as well

Still test after drinking, it may still be too high...

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
Quentin Grady - 17 May 2008 03:33 GMT
>Why don't you just eat the fruit? It would be fresh and have all its
>vitamins and minerals. First thing I was taught at the Diabetes Teaching
>Centre I went to--- No fruit juice, unless it's to treat a hypo; eat the
>fruit.

Good simple to follow advice Martha.   One good result from questions
being asked is that it gives the opportunity for such advice to be
given for the new diagnosed who may be lurking.

Best wishes,
Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

W. Baker - 16 May 2008 01:03 GMT
: If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs? i.e. if
: the carb content of a glass of juice is 10 gms carbs and I mix in 3 gms
: fibre, would I be having in real terms 7 gms carbs?

: Thanks

No.  when one sas you can subtract the fiber from the carb cound on
nutritional labels IN THEUSA, that mean the carb number INCLUDES the
fiber, unlke in OZ and Great Britain where the carb count is separate from
the fibre , which is listed separately.  If you add 3 graams of
fiber(fibre) to 10 grams of carb you would still have 10 grams of carb.  
In the US that would be listed as 13 grams of carb with an indented
listing of 3 grams of fiber.  I Great Britain or oz it would be listed as
10 gramsof carb with an unindented line listinf fibre at 3 grams.  

Now that I have completel confused you, I hope you don't try it.  Fruit
juice is just a very difficult item for diabetics.  

Wendy
David - 16 May 2008 01:50 GMT
> : If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs?
> i.e. if
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Wendy

Thanks Wendy appreciate that - I will change fruit to V8 - Julie gave me a
good tip as V8 has 1/3 the carbs of fruit
Julie Bove - 16 May 2008 03:16 GMT
>> : If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs?
>> i.e. if
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Thanks Wendy appreciate that - I will change fruit to V8 - Julie gave me a
> good tip as V8 has 1/3 the carbs of fruit

Not V8!  Diet V8 Splash.  V8 is lower in carbs, but still pretty high, I
think.
David - 16 May 2008 11:11 GMT
>>> : If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs?
>>> i.e. if
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> Not V8!  Diet V8 Splash.  V8 is lower in carbs, but still pretty high, I
> think.
Havent heard of Diet V8 - might not be in Australia
V8 is pretty low I think 3 gms in 100ml
thanks Julie
Màck©® - 16 May 2008 03:25 GMT
>If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs? i.e. if
>the carb content of a glass of juice is 10 gms carbs and I mix in 3 gms
>fibre, would I be having in real terms 7 gms carbs?
>
>Thanks

no.

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Priscilla H. Ballou - 16 May 2008 17:56 GMT
> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs? i.e. if
> the carb content of a glass of juice is 10 gms carbs and I mix in 3 gms
> fibre, would I be having in real terms 7 gms carbs?

It would reduce only its own carbs, not the carbs of anything it was in.

Priscilla
David - 16 May 2008 22:07 GMT
>> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs? i.e.
>> if
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Priscilla

Yes am scrapping the idea now - will eat the fruit, drink water!
Priscilla H. Ballou - 19 May 2008 16:21 GMT
> >> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs? i.e.
> >> if
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Yes am scrapping the idea now - will eat the fruit, drink water!

Why eat the fruit?  

Priscilla
David - 19 May 2008 16:27 GMT
>> >> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs?
>> >> i.e.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Why eat the fruit?

Do you know another way?

> Priscilla
Julie Bove - 19 May 2008 20:19 GMT
>>> >> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs?
>>> >> i.e.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Do you know another way?

Another way for what?
David - 19 May 2008 23:00 GMT
>>>> >> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs?
>>>> >> i.e.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Another way for what?
Well . . . first I said I was going to eat fruit rather than drink fruit
juice - so Priscilla asks "why eat fruit?"
So I asked her if there was another way i.e either drink it or eat it  -
what else can you do? (an attempt at humour!)
Of course I realize that she meant why have fruit in the diet at all.
I guess she is right - there are not particular nutrients or antioxidants
in fruit that I would miss - what do you think?

.
W. Baker - 20 May 2008 01:05 GMT
: >>>> >> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs?
: >>>> >> i.e.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
: I guess she is right - there are not particular nutrients or antioxidants
: in fruit that I would miss - what do you think?

Not as long as you eat plenty of leafy and other non-starchy vegetables
lke that brocolli:-)  I eat smlall amounts of frut at breakfast and
sometimes at dinner, like tonight when I had 6 cherries as a dessert.  
Very delicious!

Wendy
David - 20 May 2008 01:14 GMT
> : >>>> >> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the
> carbs?
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> sometimes at dinner, like tonight when I had 6 cherries as a dessert.
> Very delicious!

Gosh  6 cherries! I remember a time when I could go through 5 lbs of
cherries and not think a thing about it!
(guess will have to get used to that damned brocolli!)

> Wendy
Ozgirl - 20 May 2008 05:09 GMT
>>>>>>>>> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the
>>>>>>>>> carbs? i.e.
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> cherries and not think a thing about it!
> (guess will have to get used to that damned brocolli!)

Or you could slice a few strawbs etc into a sugar free jello and when set
eat it with a little whipped cream. Makes you feel like you are having more
than you really are ;)
David - 20 May 2008 08:56 GMT
[......]
>> Gosh  6 cherries! I remember a time when I could go through 5 lbs of
>> cherries and not think a thing about it!
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> eat it with a little whipped cream. Makes you feel like you are having
> more than you really are ;)

Yes I see that strawberries are only around 1 carb each -and whipped cream .
. . yum -  great idea That is the best low carb idea I've seen for a great
desert -
thanks!
krom - 20 May 2008 11:42 GMT
I eat strawberries and fresh whipped cream about once a month..my fav treat
that does zero to blood sugar and is filling and sinful..lol

KROM

> [......]
>>> Gosh  6 cherries! I remember a time when I could go through 5 lbs of
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> great desert -
> thanks!
W. Baker - 20 May 2008 14:41 GMT
: I eat strawberries and fresh whipped cream about once a month..my fav treat
: that does zero to blood sugar and is filling and sinful..lol

: KROM

Try them with sour cream, also delicious!

Wendy
krom - 20 May 2008 16:56 GMT
I use yogurt which has always tasted the same to me..

I can swap yogurt on a thing youd use sour cream in and never notice the
diff..lol.

Sour cream is a bit sweeter but i like yogurts tang i like yogurt on my
tacos etc..lol

I like sour cream too but with the yougurt i get the good tummy bugs..hehe

KROM

> : I eat strawberries and fresh whipped cream about once a month..my fav
> treat
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Wendy
Priscilla H. Ballou - 20 May 2008 18:06 GMT
> I eat strawberries and fresh whipped cream about once a month..my fav treat
> that does zero to blood sugar and is filling and sinful..lol

Sometimes that which we call sin is exactly what we need!  ;-)

Priscilla, T2
krom - 21 May 2008 21:50 GMT
true!

This weekend im gonna make my chocolate heaven pie..havnt made it in
ages..so sinfully good..lol

KROM

>> I eat strawberries and fresh whipped cream about once a month..my fav
>> treat
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Priscilla, T2
Nicky - 21 May 2008 08:24 GMT
>I eat strawberries and fresh whipped cream about once a month..my fav treat
>that does zero to blood sugar and is filling and sinful..lol

Once a MONTH?! The local soft-fruit farm had the first strawbs of the
season for sale yesterday. Elder Daughter and I ate most of a
half-pound punnet in the 2 minutes it takes to drive home :D I expect
to repeat this most days until my own plants are ready for harvest...

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
Trinkwasser - 21 May 2008 20:04 GMT
>>I eat strawberries and fresh whipped cream about once a month..my fav treat
>>that does zero to blood sugar and is filling and sinful..lol
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>half-pound punnet in the 2 minutes it takes to drive home :D I expect
>to repeat this most days until my own plants are ready for harvest...

EXCELLENT!!!

Now I shan't be getting hassle for buying foreign ones out of season
krom - 21 May 2008 21:55 GMT
I live in minnesota so fresh fruit usually comes from central america at a
hefty price..on sale you can get two pints for 5 bucks..but often thats the
price for one pint and they arent very good strawberries...

On a better note im growing three types of tomatoes this year!

I know u can grow straberries in a jar here but never tried..im tempted!

KROM

>>I eat strawberries and fresh whipped cream about once a month..my fav
>>treat
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> D&E, 100ug thyroxine
> Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
Nicky - 22 May 2008 08:56 GMT
>I know u can grow straberries in a jar here but never tried..im tempted!

I have 3 pots of them on the patio - the plants get less active after
3 years, so I'll rotate one out at the end of this year. They're zero
trouble to look after, and give me a snack a day (assuming I beat the
damntortoise to them) from end May to .... (these ones crop twice a
year. I had some in November last year).

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
krom - 22 May 2008 12:07 GMT
nice!

Damn rabits ate all the heads off my tulips this year but 3..lol..looks
funna..and they are back to eating my chockberry bush to a few twigs sitting
out the ground...i will swap you a rabbit for a turtle..lol

KROM

>>I know u can grow straberries in a jar here but never tried..im tempted!
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> D&E, 100ug thyroxine
> Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
Priscilla H. Ballou - 20 May 2008 18:05 GMT
> [......]
> >> Gosh  6 cherries! I remember a time when I could go through 5 lbs of
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> desert -
> thanks!

Puddings made with a mix of milk and cream or even heavy cream 1/2 and
1/2 with water, then sweetened with Splenda and served with whipped
cream sweetened with Splenda are WONDERFUL!

Somewhere there's a fabulous recipe for brownies made with ground
walnuts and sweetened with Splenda.  You take one of those, break it up
in a bowl, and then cover it with whipped cream sweetened with Splenda,
and you have got a dessert fit for a king!

These are good reminders for me.  I've been really busy lately and not
cooking for myself enough.  Back into the kitchen!

Priscilla, T2
bj - 20 May 2008 18:13 GMT
> Somewhere there's a fabulous recipe for brownies made with ground
> walnuts and sweetened with Splenda.  You take one of those, break it up
> in a bowl, and then cover it with whipped cream sweetened with Splenda,
> and you have got a dessert fit for a king!

That might be ok for bg but a problem with weight control.

> These are good reminders for me.  I've been really busy lately and not
> cooking for myself enough.  Back into the kitchen!

You & me both. I've been in non-cooking mode for too long. But I'm more lazy
& disinclined than all-out busy.

I'll be in full-cooking mode for a couple of weeks later on when I can't
have any processed food before a special test. <sigh>
bj
Priscilla H. Ballou - 20 May 2008 18:36 GMT
> > Somewhere there's a fabulous recipe for brownies made with ground
> > walnuts and sweetened with Splenda.  You take one of those, break it up
> > in a bowl, and then cover it with whipped cream sweetened with Splenda,
> > and you have got a dessert fit for a king!
>
> That might be ok for bg but a problem with weight control.

Not in the slightest.  Low carb high fat is an excellent way to lose
weight.  Witness how successfully people lost weight when they followed
the Atkins diet.  (Notice I said when they followed the Atkins diet not
when they did what they thought was the Atkins diet but never bothered
to read the book(s).)

It was when I went off strict low-carbing that I started to put back on
the weight I took off by eating like I described above.

Priscilla
Cheri - 20 May 2008 18:40 GMT
bj wrote in message ...

>I'll be in full-cooking mode for a couple of weeks later on when I can't
>have any processed food before a special test. <sigh>
>bj

What special test is that bj?

Cheri
bj - 21 May 2008 16:55 GMT
> bj wrote in message ...
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> What special test is that bj?

It's a scan to check for mets or recurrence of the thyroid cancer I was
treated for 7-1/2 years ago. Low Iodine Diet (LID). Processed food has too
many of the (temporarily) forbidden ingredients -- even "salt", since I
can't be *sure* of what kind, is taboo, though I put all the UNiodized salt
on my food that I want. Also forbidden is *all* dairy & derivatives, *any*
thing from the sea, egg yolks, red dye #3, certain vitamins (many multis
contain "iodine") and (for other reasons) soy & derivatives (except for oil
& I think lecithin). Read all about it at www.thyca.org. There are various
versions of the LID, some with more reason than others, but those are the
most basic priciples. I usually carry a crib sheet when shopping in case I
spot something that might be a convenient or useful product. Fortunately for
my (& many others') sanity, there are chocolates that are LID-friendly. The
biggest problem for many (& a perennial question on our listserv) is some
kind of coffee-creamer, but I don't drink coffee & I take my tea straight.
bj
Cheri - 21 May 2008 17:27 GMT
Thanks for the explanation bj, I was very curious. I learn a lot of
things I didn't know by reading this group.

Cheri

>> bj wrote in message ...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>kind of coffee-creamer, but I don't drink coffee & I take my tea straight.
>bj
Alan S - 21 May 2008 22:37 GMT
>> bj wrote in message ...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>kind of coffee-creamer, but I don't drink coffee & I take my tea straight.
>bj

Thanks for the clarification bj. The more I read of other's
dietary restrictions the less I think that cutting back on a
few BG-spikers for me is such a big deal.

I hope that being 7 1/2 years ago means that the cancer is
in full remission.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
bj - 22 May 2008 03:11 GMT
>>It's a scan to check for mets or recurrence of the thyroid cancer I was
>>treated for 7-1/2 years ago. Low Iodine Diet (LID). Processed food has too
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> I hope that being 7 1/2 years ago means that the cancer is
> in full remission.

Well, the LID doesn't last long, then I can go back to my slovenly ways. :-)

It's surprising sometimes to hear how many doctors (endos) treating thyca
don't recommend the LID. I can understand those who just don't believe in it
(although many others disagree), but there are some who say something like
"don't bother, it's *too hard*!"  Whatcha wanna bet those same docs have no
trouble telling other patients to give up <whatever, but "sweets & sugar"
are popular> *forever* because of diabetes? But two to three weeks of
restrictions is *too hard*??

I don't know about "remission", that doesn't seem to be a word we use much,
but I seem to be NED so far, although I do have some antibodies that
*should*  have disappeared by now -- which is not only a back-of-the-mind
worry but means that another test can't be relied on as one marker. <bummer>
And there's some spot in my neck (maybe) that's too small to biopsy (so
there's no way to know if it's just some odd bit of "stuff" or a nasty bit)
but it doesn't seem to be growing, so it has to be watched & occasionally
U/S, but at least it's not causing me any problems now. <sigh>

It's a lifelong monitoring process anyway (though hopefully at longer
intervals as time passes), since it can recur after decades. <more bummer>

OTOH, my recent colonoscopy was clean so *that's* done for another 5 years!
bj
Alan S - 22 May 2008 03:50 GMT
>>>It's a scan to check for mets or recurrence of the thyroid cancer I was
>>>treated for 7-1/2 years ago. Low Iodine Diet (LID). Processed food has too
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>OTOH, my recent colonoscopy was clean so *that's* done for another 5 years!
>bj

Great to see that, remission or not, you are in the "watch
and wait" stage now.

But I know how you feel. I've been a lot luckier than you;
the CLL and hypogammaglobulinemia are simply a
never-forgotten worry, not in remission so much as always in
the back of the mind. Damocles Sword, poised up there - but
I'm so lucky that I've needed no treatment and suffer no
symptoms.

"It's a lifelong monitoring process anyway". Yep. And I
don't care what anyone says, that few days wait between the
regular blood draw/biopsy/test and the results arriving is
not a great time. Nor is wondering about the spot on the
neck, or the new little cancer on the skin, even when you
know they are almost certainly benign. My tests have moved
from quarterly to four monthly to biannually - but not to
"never again".

Best wishes for the future.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
bj - 22 May 2008 04:06 GMT
> But I know how you feel. I've been a lot luckier than you;
> the CLL and hypogammaglobulinemia

At least mine's easier to spell!

Lets hope we both stay in that watch/test/that's it for now stage!

So we can "concentrate" on the diabetes, which has been *much* more a
nuisance for me, being an alldayeveryday sort of thing.
bj
Alan S - 22 May 2008 07:37 GMT
>> But I know how you feel. I've been a lot luckier than you;
>> the CLL and hypogammaglobulinemia
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>nuisance for me, being an alldayeveryday sort of thing.
>bj

Yep:-)

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
Quentin Grady - 28 May 2008 07:51 GMT
>"It's a lifelong monitoring process anyway". Yep. And I
>don't care what anyone says, that few days wait between the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>from quarterly to four monthly to biannually - but not to
>"never again".

Ain't that the truth.  

>Best wishes for the future.

bj, Alan and all the rest of you as yet not named.  There are so many
out there who know what it feels like to go through the waiting came
you've described so succinctly.  Leaves me feeling humble.

>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.

Best wishes,
Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Nicky - 21 May 2008 08:29 GMT
>> Somewhere there's a fabulous recipe for brownies made with ground
>> walnuts and sweetened with Splenda.  You take one of those, break it up
>> in a bowl, and then cover it with whipped cream sweetened with Splenda,
>> and you have got a dessert fit for a king!
>
>That might be ok for bg but a problem with weight control.

Not if you're low-carbing :D
I tend to have some of these in the freezer, ready for when the urge
strikes...
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/desserts/r/miraclebrownies.htm

Mmmmm - brownies and strawberries.....

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
Oleg Lego - 21 May 2008 15:37 GMT
>>> Somewhere there's a fabulous recipe for brownies made with ground
>>> walnuts and sweetened with Splenda.  You take one of those, break it up
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Mmmmm - brownies and strawberries.....

I hadn't heard of erythritol before. Is there a Splenda amount that's
equivalent to the amount used in this recipe? If so, would it give the
same result?

Signature

roses are #FF0000
violets are #0000FF
all my base
are belong to you

Nicky - 21 May 2008 19:31 GMT
>I hadn't heard of erythritol before. Is there a Splenda amount that's
>equivalent to the amount used in this recipe? If so, would it give the
>same result?

I tried it with Splenda before I sourced erythritol - the taste was
good, the texture less so. Have a play... I couldn't tell you how much
to use, because I do everything to taste.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
krom - 21 May 2008 21:49 GMT
When i cook i mix xylitol..erythritol and splenda at a ration of 60 percent
splenda 30 percent erythritol and 10 percent xylitol...gives me better then
sugar taste and no ill effects and no aftertaste...i use this in most treats
i eat..even coffee

KROM

>>I hadn't heard of erythritol before. Is there a Splenda amount that's
>>equivalent to the amount used in this recipe? If so, would it give the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> D&E, 100ug thyroxine
> Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
David - 20 May 2008 20:38 GMT
>> [......]
>> >> Gosh  6 cherries! I remember a time when I could go through 5 lbs of
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> These are good reminders for me.  I've been really busy lately and not
> cooking for myself enough.  Back into the kitchen!

mmmm sounds great - brownies and pudding were my downfall before I was
diagnosed
Thanks Priscilla

> Priscilla, T2
Trinkwasser - 20 May 2008 19:15 GMT
>: > Another way for what?
>: Well . . . first I said I was going to eat fruit rather than drink fruit
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>sometimes at dinner, like tonight when I had 6 cherries as a dessert.  
>Very delicious!

There's a coincidence <G>

Yummy aren't they? I rate them as honorary berries for the minor
effect on my BG.
Priscilla H. Ballou - 20 May 2008 19:55 GMT
> >: > Another way for what?
> >: Well . . . first I said I was going to eat fruit rather than drink fruit
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Yummy aren't they? I rate them as honorary berries for the minor
> effect on my BG.

The fruit stand at the subway stop had both kinds this morning:  Bings
for $3.99/lb and the yellowish ones for $5.49/lb.  I decided to wait.

Priscilla, type 2
Priscilla Ballou - 20 May 2008 01:17 GMT
> >>>> >> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the carbs?
> >>>> >> i.e.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> I guess she is right - there are not particular nutrients or antioxidants
> in fruit that I would miss - what do you think?

There's nothing in fruit that you can't get in non-starchy vegies...
except for a load of sugar.

Have a nice salad or stir fry, and then maybe some berries for dessert.  
They're about the only fruit that's relatively safe for BG control.

In the summer, a small dish of raspberries sprinkled with a little
Splenda and then drenched in heavy cream is a favorite dessert of mine
that doesn't bother my meter.

Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise
David - 20 May 2008 01:30 GMT
>> >>>> >> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the
>> >>>> >> carbs?
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> Splenda and then drenched in heavy cream is a favorite dessert of mine
> that doesn't bother my meter.

Good, I may just stick with blueberries we get them here in season -
congrats on your control with just diet and exercise - that is wonderful

> Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise
Priscilla H. Ballou - 20 May 2008 18:02 GMT
> > In the summer, a small dish of raspberries sprinkled with a little
> > Splenda and then drenched in heavy cream is a favorite dessert of mine
> > that doesn't bother my meter.
>
> Good, I may just stick with blueberries we get them here in season -
> congrats on your control with just diet and exercise - that is wonderful

Thou assumest too much.  I had to go off metformin about 8 months ago,
and my carb control had been slipping even before that.  I've put on
about 15 lbs, and my morning numbers have been as high as 163.  When I
do strictly control my carb input (which isn't always), I can keep my
numbers during the day within normal range (80-120), but those fasting
numbers suck.  See my post inquiring about starting to inject a
background insulin.  My A1c is still under 6, but it's going up instead
of down.  :-(

Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c around 5.7
David - 20 May 2008 20:37 GMT
>> > In the summer, a small dish of raspberries sprinkled with a little
>> > Splenda and then drenched in heavy cream is a favorite dessert of mine
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> background insulin.  My A1c is still under 6, but it's going up instead
> of down.  :-(

Do you have a reaction to metformin? Couldnt replace that with another med?

> Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c around 5.7
Priscilla H. Ballou - 20 May 2008 20:45 GMT
> > Thou assumest too much.  I had to go off metformin about 8 months ago,
> > and my carb control had been slipping even before that.  I've put on
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Do you have a reaction to metformin?

Daily 1-2 hours of gut cramps and diarrhea.  Thank God for an
unstructured work day!

> Couldnt replace that with another med?

Nope.  There's nothing exactly like it.  Of the other kinds of meds,
some have been shown to increase heart problems, and some push the
pancreas to work harder, which I'd rather not do, since I want to save
some pancreatic function.

Insulin isn't some big bad wolf, though.  It's a tool like meds, diet,
exercise, etc.

Priscilla, T2
David - 20 May 2008 22:01 GMT
>> > Thou assumest too much.  I had to go off metformin about 8 months ago,
>> > and my carb control had been slipping even before that.  I've put on
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> Insulin isn't some big bad wolf, though.  It's a tool like meds, diet,
> exercise, etc.

I see your point about insulin - you just think of it being progressive and
that is just another nail in the coffin!
But I am changing my attitude to a lot of things since I've been here. I
cant think of how much  all of you have helped me

> Priscilla, T2
Trinkwasser - 21 May 2008 20:08 GMT
>> > Thou assumest too much.  I had to go off metformin about 8 months ago,
>> > and my carb control had been slipping even before that.  I've put on
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>pancreas to work harder, which I'd rather not do, since I want to save
>some pancreatic function.

Have you tried Alpha Lipoic Acid? It's having a similar but milder
effect on my IR to metformin without any side effects other than the
price and *possibly* a slight increase in acid reflux.

Doesn't work for everyone but there are insulin users who have
reported having to reduce their dose while using it.

>Insulin isn't some big bad wolf, though.  It's a tool like meds, diet,
>exercise, etc.

Indeed, but using something on the IR provides a double whammy, makes
the insulin (self-produced or injected) more effective.
W. Baker - 20 May 2008 22:12 GMT
: > > In the summer, a small dish of raspberries sprinkled with a little
: > > Splenda and then drenched in heavy cream is a favorite dessert of mine
: > > that doesn't bother my meter.
: >
: > Good, I may just stick with blueberries we get them here in season -
: > congrats on your control with just diet and exercise - that is wonderful

: Thou assumest too much.  I had to go off metformin about 8 months ago,
: and my carb control had been slipping even before that.  I've put on
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
: background insulin.  My A1c is still under 6, but it's going up instead
: of down.  :-(

: Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c around 5.7

Haave you thought of a small dose of a sulph?  I am on 1 mg Amaryl, whih I
take before bed adn that had kept my fbg's under control quite well.  I am
also on the Metformin ex, but before the Amaryl is was having trouble
keeping the fbgs reliable under 110( now  I seldom reach 100), whihc is
where I want it.  My endo says 110.

Wendy
Oleg Lego - 20 May 2008 07:16 GMT
>There's nothing in fruit that you can't get in non-starchy vegies...
>except for a load of sugar.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Splenda and then drenched in heavy cream is a favorite dessert of mine
>that doesn't bother my meter.

Just tried a new dessert; Ricotta con Crema, with a little grated
orange rind, a sprinkling of cinnamon, Splenda, and some cut-up
strawberries. Yum!

Signature

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violets are #0000FF
all my base
are belong to you

Quentin Grady - 28 May 2008 09:00 GMT
>There's nothing in fruit that you can't get in non-starchy vegies...
>except for a load of sugar.

Nothing?  

G'day G'day Priscilla,

 When someone uses absolute terms such as "nothing, always, never"  a
reflexive module in my brain goes off turning that absolute statement
into a question.  

What you say is quite true ... except where it isn't.  

Actually it's quite hard to spot why your statement shouldn't be
accepted in its entirety.  It is only thanks to the inbuilt reflexes
that I began to suspect some attention needed to be given.

Here is why it so important to tackle the comparison between fruit and
vegetables.  What you are saying has a lot of validity. It is the sort
of simple general comment I'd be proud to make.  Simplicity leads to
better implementation.  The non-starchy vegetables you refer to are a
better investment for most mineral and vitamins than fruit.  One could
get all the minerals and vitamins found in fruit from vegetables. IIRC
someone, Alan S perhaps posted a comparison

There are a few things though that don't seem to be supplied in
sufficient quantities in vegetables even though they are the better
performers.

Darn.    

Vit E is one of those things.  It is the sort of thing that tempts
intelligent well educated people to go out and buy supplements.  This
is despite the published evidence suggesting that Vit E supplements
has a small negative impact on life expectancy.  They quite rightly
claim that sometimes the quality of research isn't very high so the
reported negative impact might not exist in reality.  They happily bet
against the collective evidence out there suggesting supplementing
with Vit E is unwise or at least not wildly beneficial.   After
everything they are gambling that the researchers are wrong.  Which
ever way you look at it, it's a gamble.  Must we take it?

My hypothesis is that it is a risk one need not take provided one
includes some fruit in one diet.  Fruit is a good source of
polyphenols.  You have met polyphenols when you cut an apple and left
it for a while and it turned brown. That was phenolic compounds being
attacked by the air. The good news is the polyphenols in fruit can
recycle Vit E so that we need less Vit E in our diet ... provided we
have rich flavoured fruit in our diet.  The more varied the better.

OK, it is better to have diet which is vegetable based rather than
fruit based.   However IMHO it makes sense to include some fruit even
if in the form of damson plum sauce to go on the steaks.

Now let's deal with your last point  ... "except for a load of sugar"
The carbohydrate in fruit is mostly sugar.  Plants that produce edible
fruit intend them to eaten so their seeds will be carried far and
wide.  This however is wasteful in the one currency a plant really
feels, carbohydrate.  Spend all morning at the office
photosynthesizing and something comes along expecting a free lunch.

Hmm.  

Well the trick is to seduce the animals by providing them with half a
free lunch.  Sugar is sweeter than starch.  Fructose is sweeter than
glucose.  So providing table sugar or its equivalent in a mix of
fructose and glucose is a good trick as far as the plant is concerned.
It takes a very smart animal to realise they're being seduced.
Fructose isn't as good for health as glucose.  So first I ought to
congratulate you for recognising that sugar isn't the best ... at
least that is the implication I'm picking up from your comment.
You recognize this fact.  There is a lot of truth in it.  

However, is there a lot of sugar though in fruit?

IMHO not as much as there appears to be.  That's the point of my
describing things from the plants point of view.  To the plant that
carbohydrate goes on the cost side of ledger not the profit side.
Survival goes to the most business like plants, those that seduce the
most conveyors of seeds with the least expenditure on carbohydrate.
Put simply, natural selection in plants favors those that provide the
LEAST carbohydrate while seducing the most spreaders of seeds.  A
quick count of ASD respondents will quickly assure one that the
strawberries seduction strategy works though how they managed to work
in conjunction with cows producing cream to pull it off is beyond me.
<grin>

Berries fit this description well.

Strawberries taste oh so sweet yet they seduce us with  mere 7% of
carbohydrate.  So although berries provide mostly sugar they don't
provide loads of it. They simply can't afford to.

I think your generalisation is so good it is worth every new comer and
even us old fogies noting well.  IMHO it improves if given a slight
modification.  

I don't know about others but I'm proud of how ASD works.  

David has learnt that eating fruit is better than drinking fruit
juice. Others lurking out there in cyberspace will have learnt from
him.

Priscilla has directed attention to the primary importance of
vegetables.  

I've added a slight modification suggesting that fruit especially
berries that don't subject us to a high carbohydrate load have a place
too.

Best wishes,
Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Ozgirl - 20 May 2008 05:07 GMT
>>>>>>> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the
>>>>>>> carbs? i.e.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> I guess she is right - there are not particular nutrients or
> antioxidants in fruit that I would miss - what do you think?

There is nothing in fruit that you can't get in raw vegetables. But you
could try eating a few berries on their own away from a meal and see how
your bg's fare.
David - 20 May 2008 08:54 GMT
>>>>>>>> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the
>>>>>>>> carbs? i.e.
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> could try eating a few berries on their own away from a meal and see how
> your bg's fare.

yes I think I could sacrifice fruit except for a few berries - as long as I
can have a mango on my birthday!
I have sure changed my ways in the last few days - have a lot to thank this
group for.
Ozgirl - 20 May 2008 09:47 GMT
>>>>>>>>> If I add fibre to fruit juice, would it effectivly reduce the
>>>>>>>>> carbs? i.e.
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> I have sure changed my ways in the last few days - have a lot to
> thank this group for.

I sometimes slip in a bit of mango with a chicken salad. A slice of
pineapple with ham salad etc.
David - 20 May 2008 09:53 GMT
[........]

>> yes I think I could sacrifice fruit except for a few berries - as
>> long as I can have a mango on my birthday!
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I sometimes slip in a bit of mango with a chicken salad. A slice of
> pineapple with ham salad etc.
Nice combo  . . . Ozgirl you need to come to my place and make friends with
my wife - so she can learn a thing or two!!
Ozgirl - 20 May 2008 09:57 GMT
> [........]
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Nice combo  . . . Ozgirl you need to come to my place and make
> friends with my wife - so she can learn a thing or two!!

lol, women don't often like to be shown how to do things :) especially in
the kitchen! You got a death wish or something?
David - 20 May 2008 10:25 GMT
>> [........]
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> lol, women don't often like to be shown how to do things :) especially in
> the kitchen! You got a death wish or something?

Ha ha! ok I think you are right, she is in that 'sensitive' time of her life
as well!