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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2008Bloodletting And Diabetes
"These results justify iron depletion" http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/extract/31/3/e18 Diabetes Care. 2008 Jan;31(1):3-8. Epub 2007 Oct 24. Links Bloodletting ameliorates insulin sensitivity and secretion in parallel to reducing liver iron in carriers of HFE gene mutations. Equitani F, Fernandez-Real JM, Menichella G, Koch M, Calvani M, Nobili V, Mingrone G, Manco M. Transfusion Medicine, SanFilippo Neri Hospital, Rome, Italy. OBJECTIVE: To clarify the pathogenesis of diabetes associated with mutations of the hemochromatosis (HFE) gene, 17 carriers, 9 normal glucose tolerant (NGT) and 8 diabetic, were evaluated in an interventional trial. RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS: At enrollment and after a 2-year bloodletting period, euglycemic- hyperinsulinemic clamp, oral glucose tolerance test (OGTT), liver histology (nonalcoholic fatty liver disease activity score [NAS]), and liver iron content (LIC) were assessed. RESULTS: NGT subjects had significantly higher baseline insulin sensitivity (P <or= 0.001), secretion, and insulinogenic index (calculated from the OGTT) (P <or= 0.0001 for both) and lower LIC (P = 0.004) and NAS (P = 0.02) than diabetic patients. Baseline LIC correlated negatively with insulin secretion (NGT r(0) = -0.676, P <or= 0.0001; diabetes r(0) = -0.589, P = 0.02) and insulin sensitivity (M value) (NGT r(0) = -0.597, P = 0.009; diabetes r(0) = -0.535, P = 0.03) and positively with NAS (diabetes r(0) = 0.649, P = 0.007) and triglycerides (NGT r(0) = 0.563, P = 0.015). At month 24, circulating iron was reduced by 179 +/- 26% in NGT and 284 +/- 54% in diabetic subjects. Insulin secretion (NGT 20 +/- 4%; diabetes 33 +/- 7%) and insulin sensitivity (NGT 25 +/- 5%; diabetes 18 +/- 3%) increased. LIC decreased in both groups (NGT 126 +/- 42%; diabetes 61 +/- 13%), and NAS ameliorated (NGT 65.1 +/- 6.5 vs. 38.1 +/- 6.83; P <or= 0.0001; diabetes 2.1 +/- 10.7 vs. 69.9 +/- 10; P <or= 0.0001). CONCLUSIONS: Iron depletion ameliorates insulin secretion and sensitivity in NGT and diabetic carriers of HFE gene mutations. This amelioration occurs in parallel with decreased LIC and improved NAS. These results justify glucose tolerance testing and prophylactic iron depletion in asymptomatic carriers as well. PMID: 17959863 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk On May 9, 11:37 pm, the Ferrous Fuckwit <clutching@straws> netkooked: <snip of off-topic and plagiarized information> That's how you spend your Friday nights, Fuckwit? Trolling the internet? Pretending you aren't a crackpot? You're sad. Seeing as you have so much free time on your hands, you are now expected to reveal your qualifications to give medical advice. --Bill Thompson Actually, it can't be seen as plagiarized when there is fully citing of source material. And it can be seen as on-topic for the diabetes group. And for the nutrition and pathology groups. Maybe the lupus group, and with a stretch, maybe the fibromyalgia group. In spite of his one-person parade, there is some value to what he says, for some of the readers. If a person doesn't deal well with the iron, there can indeed be problems that are not typically attributed to iron overload. Used to happen more when iron skillets were more common, with metal spatulas instead of plastic. Also, it should be considered if a person has had at least 13 blood transfusions, not necessarily within a narrow time frame. Several years, even, especially for men, pre and postmenopausal women. But the part that is so annoying about him is the presentation of iron overload as the single most relevant factor from diabetes to end organ failure in lupus. Certainly not apologizing for him, he is a pest at times, but sometimes he presents something of value, even if you have to pick through a lot of sh.t for the piece of corn. On May 10, 11:50 pm, "wrtho...@ix.netcom.com" <wrthomp...@gmail.com> wrote: > On May 9, 11:37 pm, the Ferrous Fuckwit <clutching@straws> netkooked: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > --Bill Thompson > Actually, it can't be seen as plagiarized when there is fully citing > of source material. Rusty is posting copyrighted material without the permission of the copyright owner. He could be taken into court and successfully prosecuted, although I doubt that anyone would bother with such a pipsqueak as him. > And it can be seen as on-topic for the diabetes group. And for the > nutrition and pathology groups. Maybe the lupus group, and with > a stretch, maybe the fibromyalgia group. If Rusty had something on-topic for alt.support.lupus, it didn't show up. And if there are ever any kernels of corn in his posts, nobody should have to sift through his Mount Bandinis of fertilizer to find them. The bulk of his posts don't say anything helpful to anyone, which is just more evidence that he is not qualified to give medical advice. Don't worry, I intend to give it a rest for a while. I don't like to bother people (not that TeamTroller is "people"). --Bill Thompson On May 11, 8:33 pm, "William R. Thompson" <wrtho...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:Rusty is posting copyrighted material << People send me .. stuff .. and I .. forward .. stuff .. Like the stuff below .. and seeing you ain't a woman .. stfu .. "Those with lupus were more prone to such traditional risk factors for heart disease as hypertension and diabetes and were five to eight times more likely to develop CHD than women in the general population" TUESDAY, Nov. 4 (HealthDayNews) -- Women with lupus have more risk factors for heart disease than women without the autoimmune disorder, says a study by researchers at the University of Toronto Lupus Clinic. In addition to traditional risk factors for heart disease, women with lupus have several novel metabolic risk factors that may be linked to the inflammation caused by lupus, the researchers say. Their report appears in the November issue of Arthritis and Rheumatism. The study, which included 250 women with lupus and 250 healthy women in a control group, found those with lupus were more prone to such traditional risk factors for heart disease as hypertension and diabetes. Lupus patients were also more sedentary. The two groups were matched for age. Despite that, the women with lupus were more likely to be menopausal -- 38 percent compared to 19 percent of the control group. Women with lupus experienced menopause, on average, five years earlier than women in the control group. The lupus patients also had much higher levels of triglycerides, low- density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol and homocysteine. These are all factors related to lipid metabolism and characteristic of inflammatory disorders such as lupus. These probably contribute to the loss of protection from coronary heart disease (CHD) in women with lupus. "Many of the factors identified are potentially amenable to screening and intervention. Further studies to understand the additional contribution of the inflammatory process to CHD risk in lupus are needed, as are studies to accurately predict the future risk of CHD in this high-risk population," lead researcher Dr. Ian N. Bruce says in a prepared statement. Several previous studies confirmed that women with lupus are five to eight times more likely to develop CHD than women in the general population. That risk is especially pronounced among women younger than 55. Lupus is an autoimmune disorder that's marked by progressive damage to the kidneys, heart and brain. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > "Michael B" wrote: > > Actually, it can't be seen as plagiarized when there is fully citing [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > --Bill Thompson So he admits to passing on bad information he doesn't understand. On May 11, 8:33 pm, "William R. Thompson" <wrtho...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:Rusty is posting copyrighted material << People send me .. stuff .. and I .. forward .. stuff .. Like the stuff below .. and seeing you ain't a woman .. stfu .. "Those with lupus were more prone to such traditional risk factors for heart disease as hypertension and diabetes and were five to eight times more likely to develop CHD than women in the general population" TUESDAY, Nov. 4 (HealthDayNews) -- Women with lupus have more risk factors for heart disease than women without the autoimmune disorder, says a study by researchers at the University of Toronto Lupus Clinic. In addition to traditional risk factors for heart disease, women with lupus have several novel metabolic risk factors that may be linked to the inflammation caused by lupus, the researchers say. Their report appears in the November issue of Arthritis and Rheumatism. The study, which included 250 women with lupus and 250 healthy women in a control group, found those with lupus were more prone to such traditional risk factors for heart disease as hypertension and diabetes. Lupus patients were also more sedentary. The two groups were matched for age. Despite that, the women with lupus were more likely to be menopausal -- 38 percent compared to 19 percent of the control group. Women with lupus experienced menopause, on average, five years earlier than women in the control group. The lupus patients also had much higher levels of triglycerides, low- density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol and homocysteine. These are all factors related to lipid metabolism and characteristic of inflammatory disorders such as lupus. These probably contribute to the loss of protection from coronary heart disease (CHD) in women with lupus. "Many of the factors identified are potentially amenable to screening and intervention. Further studies to understand the additional contribution of the inflammatory process to CHD risk in lupus are needed, as are studies to accurately predict the future risk of CHD in this high-risk population," lead researcher Dr. Ian N. Bruce says in a prepared statement. Several previous studies confirmed that women with lupus are five to eight times more likely to develop CHD than women in the general population. That risk is especially pronounced among women younger than 55. Lupus is an autoimmune disorder that's marked by progressive damage to the kidneys, heart and brain. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > "Michael B" wrote: > > Actually, it can't be seen as plagiarized when there is fully citing [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > --Bill Thompson So he admits to passing on bad information he doesn't understand. << I admit to passing on information which invokes .. thought. Whether you are ABLE .. to .. think .. is a different question .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On May 11, 8:33 pm, "William R. Thompson" <wrtho...@ix.netcom.com> > wrote:Rusty is posting copyrighted material << [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > > - Show quoted text - > Actually, it can't be seen as plagiarized when there is fully citing > of source material. > > And it can be seen as on-topic for the diabetes group. And for the > nutrition and pathology groups. Pathology groups? No - not really. > In spite of his one-person parade, there is some value to what he > says, for some of the readers. If a person doesn't deal well with the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > transfusions, not necessarily within a narrow time frame. Several > years, even, especially for men, pre and postmenopausal women. Read what he's posted carefully. You'll find that there are well known side effects of massive iron overloads, like in the example of multiple blood transfusions. There are also well know problems of iron metabolism. All of which are quite rare in the great scheme of things. However the Ferrous Fool utterly misunderstands what's going on, and furthermore rejects all attempts at enlightening him. Instead he prefers to continue his religous crusade by posting any mention of iron onto any seemingly random newsgroup. I suspect someone close to him died of one of these rare conditions and it's unhinged him somewhat. > But the part that is so annoying about him is the presentation of > iron overload as the single most relevant factor from diabetes to > end organ failure in lupus. Certainly not apologizing for him, he > is a pest at times, but sometimes he presents something of value, > even if you have to pick through a lot of sh.t for the piece of corn. The only "bits of corn" I've ever found are those things which are factually true but posted out of context. On May 12, 1:16 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:Pathology groups? No - not really. << I .. rest .. my .. case .. http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/webpath.html Pathology covers .. disease .. **process** .. What disease you figure doesn't HAVE a .. process .. Eh .. Tell me .. Tell everyone .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > > Actually, it can't be seen as plagiarized when there is fully citing > > of source material. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > The only "bits of corn" I've ever found are those things which are factually > true but posted out of context. On May 12, 1:16 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:Pathology groups? No - not really. << I .. rest .. my .. case .. http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/webpath.html Pathology covers .. disease .. **process** .. What disease you figure doesn't HAVE a .. process .. Eh .. Tell me .. Tell everyone .. ------------------------------------------------------------------- The regular contributors to sci.med.pathology (with one exception) are educated to postgraduate level. That one exception is not, and he has no understanding of the articles he randomly posts and contributes nothing to the group. Therefore the constant stream of ferrous tommyfoolery is irrelevent to the group. I've snipped all follow-up groups except a.s.d My last check-up my doctor mentioned that my iron was up and said 'we fix that by bloodletting.' I used my best Marty Feldmen voice and asked "should I gather the leeches?' He said "That's one of the options" very straight faced. Is that really true? Has anyone here had bloodletting via leech before? Just curious. Sean > I've snipped all follow-up groups except a.s.d > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Is that really true? Has anyone here had bloodletting via leech > before? Just curious. I don't know about bloodletting use, but medical leeches are making a comeback. (so are maggots) Try Google for more info on the subject. bj On May 12, 1:42 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:The regular contributors to sci.med.pathology (with one exception) are educated to postgraduate level. << Now you got somesplainin to do there ..lucy .. You mean these guys ..yourself included .. are educated to such a degree.. and searching the group for the iron posting one finds nothing but me. Now with iron being found to be such a problem .. IE: everyone with long term diabetes and the NIH clinical trial .. means .. ? Either the pathology interested people ON your list are collectively not interested in posting to a list of your caliber ..or .. ? .. they just missed it .. missed the boat .. missed the obvious .. dismissed the obvious .. killed women men children fetuses and it seems try to kill my ..fkg ..dog. The only real justice to this whole deal is the appointment of a .. vet .. to oversee you guys .. Heh .. heh .. How's THAT .. feel .. there .. educated .. pathology ..interested .. guy .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On May 12, 1:16 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> > wrote:Pathology groups? No - not really. << [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Therefore the constant stream of ferrous tommyfoolery is irrelevent to the > group. On May 12, 1:42 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:The regular contributors to sci.med.pathology (with one exception) are educated to postgraduate level. << Now you got somesplainin to do there ..lucy .. You mean these guys ..yourself included .. are educated to such a degree.. and searching the group for the iron posting one finds nothing but me. Now with iron being found to be such a problem .. IE: everyone with long term diabetes and the NIH clinical trial .. means .. ? Either the pathology interested people ON your list are collectively not interested in posting to a list of your caliber ..or .. ? .. they just missed it .. missed the boat .. missed the obvious .. dismissed the obvious .. killed women men children fetuses and it seems try to kill my ..fkg ..dog. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tommy, I'm sorry to put this so bluntly, but with all your posts you flatter yourself that you have something to contribute to the sci.med.pathology newsgroup (and all the others). You are wrong. You do not. If you think you do have something to contribute, review the years of postings that you've put up contradictory gibberish, particularly to how you conduct yourself in discussion. On May 15, 9:58 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:If you think you do have something to contribute << Read my lips .. If I post to the sci.med.pathology list .. YOU .. just stfu .. Your stupidity is astounding .. Simple in your face .. evidence .. IE: .. no discussion WHATSOFKGEVER about increased death due to epo .. increased death in the world IE: malaria death in children .. increased death in cancer .. increased death in diabetes .. increased death in Sickle .. Thalassemia and aplastic anemia related diseases ..increased death in Hepatitis.. And on the pathology list .. ?..fkall to say about ANY of the above .. Well .. evidently .. you are a bunch of braindeadfkgmorons .. Simple logic .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > postings that you've put up contradictory gibberish, particularly to how you > conduct yourself in discussion. On May 15, 9:58 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: >>If youthink you do have something to contribute << Read my lips .. If I post to the sci.med.pathology list .. YOU .. just stfu .. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ As I said, Tommy. Just look at how you "conduct a discussion". You bend over backwards to make yourself a figure of ridicule, and then seem amazed that people treat you as one. On May 15, 9:58 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:If you think you do have something to contribute << Read my lips .. If I post to the sci.med.pathology list .. YOU .. just stfu .. Your stupidity is astounding .. Simple in your face .. evidence .. IE: .. no discussion WHATSOFKGEVER about increased death due to epo .. increased death in the world IE: malaria death in children .. increased death in cancer .. increased death in diabetes .. increased death in Sickle .. Thalassemia and aplastic anemia related diseases ..increased death in Hepatitis.. And on the pathology list .. ?..fkall to say about ANY of the above .. Well .. evidently .. you are a bunch of braindeadfkgmorons .. Simple logic .. Who loves ya. Tom ............................................................................................................................................................................ Another fine example of Rusty posting so much he makes himself ill. If everyone was as sick as he thinks they are you would not see them posting on the internet. CB On May 15, 1:39 pm, "Cheeky Bastard" <InvalidEm...@aol.com> wrote:If everyone was as sick as he thinks they are you would not see them posting on the internet. << If people weren't as sick as I .. know .. they ARE .. I wouldn't be here .. I've said before if people were 'merely inconvenienced' BY disease I wouldn't be here. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On May 15, 9:58 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:If you > think you do have something to contribute << [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > CB bloodletting << "Restriction of iron may have positive effects on health in general and aging in particular" Galaris D, Mantzaris M, Amorgianiotis C Oxidative stress and aging: the potential role of iron. [Journal Article] Hormones (Athens) 2008 Apr-Jun; 7(2):114-22. According to the free radical theory of aging proposed by Denham Harman more than 50 years ago, oxidatively modified cellular components accumulate continuously in the cells during the organism's lifespan leading to progressive decline of cellular functions. Since then, it has been shown that proteins, lipids, nucleic acids and other cell components undergo reversible and/or irreversible oxidative modifications during aging. Moreover, oxidized cell components can undergo further oxidative modifications leading to formation of products that cell degradation systems are incapable of removing. Accumulation of such non-degradable aggregates further inhibits the functionality of degradation systems, thus aggravating the effects and leading to a vicious cycle. In this presentation, we propose that the availability of intracellular iron in its redox active form (labile iron) represents the main catalyst that mediates extensive oxidative modifications of cellular components and ultimately leads to their accumulation and consequent cellular dysfunction. It is tempting to speculate that regulated restriction of labile iron may have positive effects on health in general and aging in particular. Hormones (Athens, Greece) [Hormones (Athens)] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On May 15, 1:39 pm, "Cheeky Bastard" <InvalidEm...@aol.com> wrote:If > everyone was as sick as he thinks they are you would not see them [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > - Show quoted text - On May 15, 6:39 pm, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote: bloodletting << So sad RUSTY only has the mental capacity to copy and paste others writings. > On May 15, 6:39 pm, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote: > bloodletting << > So sad RUSTY only has the mental capacity to copy and paste others > writings. The irony is that the Iron Dupe whines about scientists, doctors and educated people, claims they don't know what they're talking about, casts aspersions on their morals and abilities-- yet who does he steal his information from? He's yet to post any original research of his own. And did you notice he claims someone tried to kill his dog? This is what he's all about? He has the delusion that somebody tried to kill his dog, and that totally unhinged him? Jeeze. --Bill Thompson On May 16, 11:02 pm, "William R. Thompson" <wrtho...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:The irony is that the Iron Dupe whines about scientists, doctors and educated people, claims they don't know what they're talking about, << Every diabetic is iron deficient sez .. **them** .. Every diabetic is iron overloaded sez .. **me** .. What have they found ? Are all of them iron overloaded .. ? Has bloodletting been now recommended .. ? THAT kind of evidence is just too easy for some REAL stupid people there .. william .. On May 16, 11:02 pm, "William R. Thompson" <wrtho...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:casts aspersions on their morals and abilities--<< Actually Harvard does studies to see if the doctors are profiting by killing their patients. Harvard seems to have proven this .. FACT .. ? Yep .. Numbers don't lie .. **unless** you 'cook the books' .. but .. **Harvard** kept it under their hats while they did the studies .. Coldnuts caught dialysis doctors dealing drugs deftly. On May 16, 11:02 pm, "William R. Thompson" <wrtho...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: yet who does he steal his information from? He's yet to post any original research of his own. << Actually as a Health Research Analyst .. I .. **have** posted "original" .. research . It can be found with a Google search of "meat eating predicts diabetes" .. or .. "free bisphosphonate" .. Now you won't be able to understand the above with your limited intelligence but let me assure you .. both .. of those ORIGINAL research findings were found by .. me .. a Health Research Analyst. A Health Research Analyst .. takes .. medical / health research .. studies / articles / thoughts and .. vibes .. to put two and two together. Sooo .. contrary to what you BELIEVE a Health Research Analyst .. actually .. DOES .. IE: cleaning up sht .. he doesn't .. He leaves the shtcleaning .. for those with .. credentials .. You probably wish you HAD credentials .. don't ya .. william .. You could clean up sht all day long .. I think you would be suited for it .. On May 16, 11:02 pm, "William R. Thompson" <wrtho...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: And did you notice he claims someone tried to kill his dog? This is what he's all about? He has the delusion that somebody tried to kill his dog, and that totally unhinged him? Jeeze. << 'They' .. stupid people .. add iron to dog food .. they don't even KNOW how much iron they add .. verified .. BY .. ? Reading .. / Health Research Analysis .. A study showed fifty percent of working dogs in a study out of Europe .. had .. iron overload. Now .. you don't know that .. means .. ? You REALLY don't know .. about .. ME .. Soooo .. seeing you know fkall about .. ME .. or ..science .. or .. health .. means .. ? I really can't see why you are on this thread .. Must be just to hear me say .. sht .. Eh .. william .. Heh .. heh .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > > <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote: > > On May 15, 6:39 pm, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > --Bill Thompson >Every diabetic is iron deficient sez .. **them** .. Who is "them" ? >Actually as a Health Research Analyst .. I .. **have** posted >"original" .. research . What formally recognised qualifications does a "Health Research Analyst" have? What's the career pathway and progression? With which body are "Health Research Analysts" registered? >It can be found with a Google search of "meat eating predicts >diabetes" .. or .. "free bisphosphonate" .. No, it can't. Other people's (misquoted) research can be. On May 17, 1:10 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:What << Ah .. Manky .. the professional medical guy .. The guy who REALLY don't give a fk .. Isn't that .. right .. manky .. You believe you got the intelligence to speak to me or about me .. do ya .. ? Heh .. heh .. On May 17, 1:10 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:What formally recognised qualifications does a "Health Research Analyst" have? << Do a search .. Let me recommend the words .. "Health Research Analyst" ..use .. Google .. don't forget to use those little thingies around the .. title .. ok .. ? On May 17, 1:10 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: What's the career pathway and progression? << The same as a doctor .. On May 17, 1:10 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:With which body are "Health Research Analysts" registered? << Do a search .. Let me recommend the words .. "Health Research Analyst" ..use .. Google .. don't forget to use those little thingies around the .. title .. ok .. ? On May 17, 1:10 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:It can be found with a Google search of "meat eating predicts diabetes" .. or .. "free bisphosphonate" .. No, it can't. << Yes it can .. On May 17, 1:10 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: Other people's (misquoted) research can be. << You are wrong and unable to prove that .. you are not wrong. I can prove that I am right .. I have proven it to you numerous times .. and you still forget .. "Meat Eating Predicts Diabetes" .. Now IF you cannot understand that .. hypothesis .. as PUT FORTH .. **by** .. me .. WITH the supplied articles .. coincidentally .. only TWO articles needed. Should be very easy for anyone .. even someone with YOUR .. questionable .. intelligence . Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk Not .. YOU .. or it seems anybody LIKE .. you .. > >Every diabetic is iron deficient sez .. **them** .. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > No, it can't. > Other people's (misquoted) research can be. On May 17, 1:10 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:What << You believe you got the intelligence to speak to me or about me .. do ya .. ? Heh .. heh .. On May 17, 1:10 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:What formally recognised qualifications does a "Health Research Analyst" have? << Do a search .. Let me recommend the words .. "Health Research Analyst" ..use .. Google .. don't forget to use those little thingies around the .. title .. ok .. ? ____________________________________________________________ Since you flatly refuse to answer the question, I can only make those assumptions about you that seem to fit the evidence you yourself provide. So, let's be crystal clear about this. You are a "Health Research Analyst" employed by a hospital or university with an MSc or PhD ? On May 17, 2:03 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:You are a "Health Research Analyst" employed by a hospital or university with an MSc or PhD ? << I was a Health Research Analyst before there WERE .. Health Research Analysts .. One of my detractors and I even conducted a search OF .. Health Research Analyst and they didn't .. exist. Sooo .. One might consider ME as having ..coined THAT phrase .. too .. That is .. "Health Research Analyst" .. Or more .. like .. **created** the whole job description AND .. job. Sooo .. don't be attempting to .. belittle ME .. with something .. **I** created .. BY telling .. ME .. "you don't fit the criteria of a job you created" .. Because when you look at that statement .. it is a really stupid statement .. But you .. wouldn't notice that .. because .. ? I think you know .. why. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On May 17, 1:10 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:What << > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > You are a "Health Research Analyst" employed by a hospital or university > with an MSc or PhD ? On May 17, 2:03 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:You are a "Health Research Analyst" employed by a hospital or university with an MSc or PhD ? << I was a Health Research Analyst before there WERE .. Health Research Analysts .. One of my detractors and I even conducted a search OF .. Health Research Analyst and they didn't .. exist. Sooo .. One might consider ME as having ..coined THAT phrase .. too .. That is .. "Health Research Analyst" .. Or more .. like .. **created** the whole job description AND .. job. Sooo .. don't be attempting to .. belittle ME .. with something .. **I** created .. BY telling .. ME .. "you don't fit the criteria of a job you created" .. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, you are admitting you have no formal qualifiations in anything at all "Health Research Analyst " - related, and are not actually employed by anybody or anyone in the field? A straight yes or no would suffice. On May 17, 11:35 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:So, you are admitting you have no formal qualifiations in anything at all "Health Research Analyst " - related, and are not actually employed by anybody or anyone in the field? << The fact a person is unemployed .. means .. something to YOU .. does .. it .. ? Does it ..? What does it mean ..? The person becomes .. less intelligent ..when they become .. unemployed .. ? Unemployment makes one .. stupid .. ? Brain power goes down when one .. loses .. ones .. job.. ? Give me a cite for that conclusion .. Just one cite .. As per education ..we've already discussed my education .. My education in nutrition far surpasses .. yours .. YOU .. admit fully to going to school for medical matters ..and going to school for medical matters entails about twelve minutes dedicated to ..nutrition. Sooo .. my post secondary edication in nutrition .. ONLY has to be about .. 13 minutes to surpass .. your ..edication .. IN .. nutrition. Sooooo .. unless you too are a wide angle speed reader ..it would take me about .. two minutes to learn what YOU .. know / learned .. ABOUT .. nutrition .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:e827116b-01ef-41e5-bd6c-d227c7dad183@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com... > On May 17, 2:03 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:You are [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > A straight yes or no would suffice. On May 17, 11:35 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:So, you are admitting you have no formal qualifiations in anything at all "Health Research Analyst " - related, and are not actually employed by anybody or anyone in the field? << The fact a person is unemployed .. means .. something to YOU .. does .. it .. ? Does it ..? What does it mean ..? The person becomes .. less intelligent ..when they become .. unemployed .. ? Unemployment makes one .. stupid .. ? Brain power goes down when one .. loses .. ones .. job.. ? Give me a cite for that conclusion .. Just one cite .. As per education ..we've already discussed my education .. My education in nutrition far surpasses .. yours .. YOU .. admit fully to going to school for medical matters ..and going to school for medical matters entails about twelve minutes dedicated to ..nutrition. ______________________________________________________________________ No - I have never been to medical school. As a matter of fact we have never directly discussed my education, but since you ask I have: The IMS special examination in hamatology (equivalent to MSc) A BA in mathematics A post graduate certificate in distance-based learning I am a chartered scientist I am currently a chief biomedical scientist. You on the other hand have no qualifications whatsoever. (By your own admission?) And are not employed currently in any medical field. (By your own admission?) And the world should listen to you because.......... (Hint......... this is yet another opportunity for you to blow any small remnants of credibility you might have. I'll tell you what - either a post with lots of dots, or a misquoted medical journal article would fit the bill here) Tom - why do you bother. No one takes you seriously. On May 18, 10:13 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:And the world should listen to you because..........<< Logic and .. reason .. Like I said .. before .. something you didn't seem to .. learn. As per credentials .. I've pointed with citations to the fact credentials mean .. ?.. nothing .. IE: self-admittingly killing Aids patients with iron supplementation. Sooo .. seeing those guys no doubt have just as much .. cred .. as yourself .. ? .. means .. ? .. now this is where .. I .. come in. Health Research Analysis .. detection of .. ? .. **cause** of pathologic .. process. Now there is where .. your .. interest .. lies .. Now looking at your .. schooling .. ? .. I don't believe you are qualified for any of the work ..**I** .. do. Sorry buddy .. Your .. resume ..is .. lacking .. in .. qualifications ..IE: logic and reason. Merit .. too. Just in case you try to sue me because I don't hire ya simply because you are an a.shole .. THOSE .. are the reasons you are not qualified to BE .. a .. "Health Research Analyst" .. Understand .. ? I doubt it .. Heh .. heh .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > Tom - why do you bother. No one takes you seriously. On May 18, 10:13 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> Now looking at your .. schooling .. ? .. I don't believe you are qualified for any of the work ..**I** .. do. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nor do I. As a matter of interest, what did you do before you were made unemployed? On May 18, 1:46 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: what did you do before you were made unemployed? << It has to pertain to something .. does it .. ? What ..?.. what YOU .. consider to BE .. 'criteria' .. ? Well buddy .. if .. "what you used to do" .. is the **reason** you act the way you do .. ? You are one fkg weird guy and must be a hoot to be around in real life .. Eh .. Why am I even doing talking to a jrkff like .. you .. to begin with .. Stay off my threads .. JUST like you been told to do .. Evidence some .. **merit** .. or sht the fk up. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > As a matter of interest, what did you do before you were made unemployed? On May 18, 1:46 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> Why am I even doing talking to a jrkff like .. you .. to begin with .. ____________________________________________________ What you are doing is trying to explain to me (and everyone else in usenet) why we should take your views seriously. If you can't do that....... ? On May 18, 11:16 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:What you are doing is trying to explain to me (and everyone else in usenet) why we should take your views seriously. << Onus .. BE .. the word .. MY .. thread .. The onus is upon YOU .. boy .. I told you to stay off my threads .. and stfu .. WHY should they NOT .. read a medical study out of Medline .. THAT is the onus .. YOU fail to adhere to the word .. You act like a btch .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > If you can't do that....... ? On May 18, 11:16 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:What you are doing is trying to explain to me (and everyone else in usenet) why we should take your views seriously. << Onus .. BE .. the word .. MY .. thread .. The onus is upon YOU .. boy .. I told you to stay off my threads .. and stfu .. WHY should they NOT .. read a medical study out of Medline .. THAT is the onus .. YOU fail to adhere to the word .. You act like a btch .. ____________________________________________________________ As you have been told countless times before, you do not own any threads in usenet, and anyone and everyone is free to post to them with relevant discussion. Why are you so keen to silence me? Just answer a few simple questions, that's all I'm asking. This thread is about your qualifications and suitability to have your opinions taken seriously. So far you have been evasive at best. And you are successfully proving my hypothesis that your opinions aren't worthy of consideration. You might not like that statement. I don't for one minute expect that you do. But you have the power to make yourself be taken seriously. Why don't you use it? On May 19, 10:05 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:As you have been told countless times before, you do not own any threads in > usenet, << The internet is governed by rules .. Therefore .. as I said .. YOU explain what you are doing on a thread .. NOT .. **me** explaining what I'm doing on .. **my** .. thread .. You see how that works .. YOU 'address' the medical study. That's .. **it** .. YOU don't address .. ME .. Understand .. ? You see how that works .. ? Do I really fkg care whether YOU believe me or not .. ? You PROVE the study / article / me .. wrong. You don't call me names or act inappropriately to me .. a fkg .. tall .. Onus .. BE .. the word .. MY .. thread .. The onus is upon YOU .. boy .. I told you to stay off my threads .. and stfu .. WHY should they NOT .. read a medical study out of Medline .. THAT is the onus .. YOU fail to adhere to the word .. You act like a btch .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > But you have the power to make yourself be taken seriously. Why don't you > use it? On May 19, 10:05 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:As you have been told countless times before, you do not own any threads in > usenet, << The internet is governed by rules .. ----------------------------------------------------- Since when did usenet have rules? Oh Tom........... Someone is ill. I deduce they are iron deficient. I recommend ferrous sulphate It is prescribed. They take it. They get better. Happens so many times, every day. Your theory sinks beyond trace. QED On May 19, 2:22 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:They take it. They get better >> Every hear of radioactive phosphorous .. They must be missing radioactive phosphorous .. Yep .. Iron and radioactive phosphorous .. You are really good .. You should look to see if maybe there is anything else missing .. Maybe see if they are more like .. you .. personally LIKE you .. ? Check for cojones .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Your theory sinks beyond trace. > QED On May 19, 5:10 pm, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote: Iron and Radioactive phosphorus << "Bloodletting Replaces Radioactive Phosphorus" "Bloodletting cures anemia." Bloodletting Replaces Radioactive Phosphorus Treatment-Traditional treatment using the marrow suppressant effect of radioactive phosphorus (32P) has been largely superseded because of the additional risk of inducing malignancies such as acute leukaemia in later life. Repeated venesection to maintain the packed cell volume at < 0.45 has become the mainstay of treatment. http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/314/7080/587 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Phlebotomy is consistently effective" "43 remissions (in 43 patients)" Acta Derm Venereol Suppl (Stockh). 1982;100:107-18. Links Phlebotomy treatment of porphyria cutanea tarda. Lundvall O. The effect of phlebotomy on 44 patients (33 men and 11 women) with porphyria cutanea tarda (PCT) is described. All had typical biochemical and clinical signs of PCT. The patients were bled until slight anemia and signs of iron deficiency. In patients who were bled frequently and who were not given iron supplements in conjunction with phlebotomy, urinary uroporphyrin excretion decreased to 1 mg (or 1.2 mumol) a day or less in 1-8 months (mean 4 months) and then continued to decrease long after the treatment had been stopped and became normal in many patients. A decrease in porphyrin excretion comparable to that in patients treated with phlebotomy occurred in only two out of 12 controls. Remission occurred in patients treated with phlebotomy who had iron overload as well as in patients with quantitatively normal iron stores and in patients abstaining from alcohol as well as in patients who continued their abuse of alcohol. The disappearance of skin fragility and ulcers coincided roughly with the time when the urinary excretion of uroporphyrin decreased to about 1 mg (1.2 mumol) a day. After 43 remissions (in 43 patients) not followed by iron medication, one relapse occurred after a period of 20 months. In 5 patients in whom their iron stores were replenished a relapse occurred in all within 18 months. After longer observation periods relapses occurred also after remissions not followed by iron medication. During observation periods of 3-10 years 15 out of 41 patients relapsed biochemically. These had re-accumulated iron stores spontaneously. The results indicate that phlebotomy is consistently effective and probably exerts its effect mainly by reduction of iron stores. PMID: 6962627 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] ---------------------------- This page tells you about radiotherapy treatment with radioactive phosphorous. There is information about What radioactive phosphorous is How you have it Possible side effects More information about radioactive phosphorous What radioactive phosphorous is Radioactive phosphorous is a radioactive form of the metal phosphorous. It can be used as a treatment for some blood disorders, including one called polycythaemia rubra vera (PCRV). Polycythaemia rubra vera means that your bone marrow makes too many red blood cells. You may make too many platelets and white blood cells too. Radioactive phosphorus is absorbed by the bone marrow and gives a dose of radiation, which stops it making excess cells. Very little radiation is given to the rest of the body. This treatment is not commonly used because other types of treatment are available. It may be used if you have had PCRV for some time. Or if you are older. How you have it You have the treatment as an injection in outpatients. There aren't usually any side effects. You can go home after the treatment. Possible side effects You will be temporarily radioactive after the injection but this is not a hazard to anyone else because it is such a small dose and the radioactivity has such a short range. Treatment with radioactive phosphorus over many years can cause leukaemia. More information about radioactive phosphorous Your medical physicist or radiotherapist will be able to explain the treatment to you in more detail if you would like. Don't forget to look in our reading lists and help and support for more sources of information. Cancer Research UK What's New Clinical Trials Donate About Access Keys NHS Information Partners Last updated 22 April 2008 Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On May 19, 2:22 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:They > take it. [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Oh, yeah, "meat eating predicts diabetes" goes along nicely with the "milk drinking predicts serial killers". I promise, every serial killer drank some milk. > Actually as a Health Research Analyst .. I .. **have** posted > "original" .. research . > > It can be found with a Google search of "meat eating predicts > diabetes" .. or .. "free bisphosphonate" .. From the unplumbed depth of his ignorance, the Ferrous Fuckwit <teamtosser@hotmail.com> raved: > Every diabetic is iron overloaded sez .. **me** .. Describe the experimental technique you used to support this claim. How many diabetics participated in your experiment? How many control subjects were involved? When and where did you conduct this experiment? How did you analyze any biological samples taken from your subjects? Who reviewed your work? Who funded your work? Where were your results published? Try to answer in twenty-five delusions or less, Fuckwit. > THAT kind of evidence is just too easy for some REAL stupid people > there .. william .. You try calling me willie, billie and willie boy, and you finally settle on William? Fuckwit, William is my name. You can't insult someone by calling him by his name. You are so incompetent, you aren't even good at trolling. > Actually as a Health Research Analyst .. I .. **have** posted > "original" .. research . You aren't an analyst, TeamTosser, but you should see one. As for your "research," I know where you got every word of it: http://maycontainnuts.me.uk/treknobabble/default.htm It sounds just like you, Fuckwit. --Bill Thompson On May 18, 9:08 pm, "wrtho...@ix.netcom.com" <wrthomp...@gmail.com> wrote:From the unplumbed depth of his ignorance, the Ferrous Fuckwit <teamtos...@hotmail.com> raved: Every diabetic is iron overloaded sez .. **me** .. Describe the experimental technique you used to support this claim. Health Research Analysis .. do I have to describe how its .. done .. ? First you get yourself a big pot of coffee .. sometimes that is at a premium .. then you get yourself access to reading material .. any reading material pertaining even somewhat to what you are going to research. Then you .. ? Read and read and read and read and read .. You kinda get the idea I bet .. Then you try to figure out how you are going to .. eat .. That should probably have been your first .. move .. but .. sometimes .. Here is an example .. http://tinyurl.com/688c9d Coincidentally it speaks to .. diabetes. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > From the unplumbed depth of his ignorance, > the Ferrous Fuckwit <teamtos...@hotmail.com> raved: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > --Bill Thompson After getting the crap kicked out of him by Manky Badger, the Ferrous Fuckwit <netkook@his.wits.end> decided it was my turn to ock him again when he wrote: >> "wrtho...@ix.netcom.com" <wrthomp...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>From the unplumbed depth of his ignorance, >>> the Ferrous Fuckwit <teamtosser@hotmail.com> raved: >>> Every diabetic is iron overloaded sez .. **me** .. >> Describe the experimental technique you used to support >> this claim. > Health Research Analysis .. do I have to describe how its .. done .. ? I told you to describe the experiment, Fuckwit. Try to comprehend what you read. You have provided no evidence to support your claim that "every diabetic is iron overloaded." Your word is not enough. In fact you have shown your word is worthless. > First you get yourself a big pot of coffee .. sometimes that is at a > premium .. then you get yourself access to reading material .. any > reading material pertaining even somewhat to what you are going to > research. > Then you .. ? > Read and read and read and read and read .. > You kinda get the idea I bet .. Yes, the idea is that you do not run any scientific expertiments. The idea is that you are a loud-mouthed egomaniac who crossposts off-topic material to endless newsgroups. The idea is that you have no understanding of what you read. I'm going to be busy for the next week or so, Fuckwit, so I won't have the time to mock you. If you want more of it before I return, you'll just have to abuse yourself. --Bill Thompson > > Actually, it can't be seen as plagiarized when there is fully citing > > of source material. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > The only "bits of corn" I've ever found are those things which are factually > true but posted out of context. Manky, RE: I suspect someone close to him died of one of these rare conditions and it's unhinged him somewhat. Quite honestly, I've often thought that perhaps he's the one that has an iron condition. Perhaps that's why he has such interest..... In any event, there has been some articles that I've enjoyed, others I haven't. I'm positive and certain, that he can say the same about me...... It's like watching tv or listening to music, if you don't want to watch or hear, change the channel. In this case, don't read..... Take care and be well out there! Debra So, has anyone asked him why he's hung up on iron in particular? I'll ask: Tom, why are you obsessed with iron over any other health issue? Nanny On May 12, 3:16 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: > "Michael B" <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > factually > true but posted out of context. Manky, RE: I suspect someone close to him died of one of these rare conditions and it's unhinged him somewhat. Quite honestly, I've often thought that perhaps he's the one that has an iron condition. Perhaps that's why he has such interest..... In any event, there has been some articles that I've enjoyed, others I haven't. I'm positive and certain, that he can say the same about me...... It's like watching tv or listening to music, if you don't want to watch or hear, change the channel. In this case, don't read..... Take care and be well out there! Debra So, has anyone asked him why he's hung up on iron in particular? << Hard work. On May 13, 10:04 pm, "nanny" <gloria...@woh.rr.com> wrote:I'll ask: Tom, why are you obsessed with iron over any other health issue? << Years ago Linus Pauling and his work with what he believed to be very high levels of oxidative stress/ rust / free radicals / reactive oxygen species / lack of antioxidants. His work was and is still accepted as very good work. Linus Pauling was a double Nobel prize winner. Years later I was flipping through a People magazine at my physiotherapists office and ran across a mans' hypothesis. His hypothesis is "the iron from meat builds progressively in the body leading to high levels of rust / oxidative stress." That clicked in my mind as an explanation for the high level of oxidative stress and this clue led me into the last few years of work. Here we are today fifteen years later and iron reduction therapy / phlebotomy has JUST been proposed FOR literally everyone. Just like I've been proposing. Evidently it seems I'm right. Using .."how do you feel" ..as a marker. "These results justify iron depletion" http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/extract/31/3/e18 Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk Nanny"dar" <darh...@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:ca9513fe-57b8-4a6c-8915-96739e80b4e6@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > On May 12, 3:16 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > - Show quoted text - On May 14, 10:27 pm, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:Linus Pauling and his work with what he believed to be very high levels of oxidative stress/ rust / free radicals / reactive oxygen species / lack of antioxidants. << This would be a human model of increased oxidation in the body. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 81, No. 1, 95-103, January 2005 © 2005 American Society for Clinical Nutrition -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ORIGINAL RESEARCH COMMUNICATION -Tocopherol disappearance is faster in cigarette smokers and is inversely related to their ascorbic acid status1,2,3 Richard S Bruno, Rajasekhar Ramakrishnan, Thomas J Montine, Tammy M Bray and Maret G Traber 1 From the Department of Human Nutrition, The Ohio State University, Columbus, OH (RSB); the Linus Pauling Institute, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR (RSB, TMB, and MGT); the College of Physicians and Surgeons, Columbia University, New York (RR); the Department of Pathology, University of Washington, Seattle (TJM) 2 Supported by grants to MGT (NIH DK59576) and TJM (AG05144 and AG16835). The Natural Source Vitamin E Association provided partial support for the purchase of the LC-MS and provided the deuterium- labeled -tocopheryl acetate supplements. Tocopherol standards including d0- (unlabeled), d6-RRR, and d3-all-rac--tocopheryl acetates and unlabeled d0--tocopherol were gifts from James Clark (Cognis Nutrition and Health, LaGrange, IL); all-rac--5,7,8-(CD3)3-tocopheryl acetate (d9-all-rac--tocopheryl acetate) was provided by Carolyn Good (General Mills) and was synthesized by Isotec Inc (Miamisburg, OH). 3 Address reprint requests to MG Traber, 561A Weniger Hall, Linus Pauling Institute, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR 97331. E- mail: maret.traber@oregonstate.edu. Background: Cigarette smokers have enhanced oxidative stress from cigarette smoke exposure and from their increased inflammatory responses. Objective: The objective of this study was to determine whether cigarette smoking increases plasma -tocopherol disappearance in otherwise healthy humans. Design: Smokers and nonsmokers (n = 10/group) were supplemented with deuterium-labeled -tocopheryl acetates (75 mg each of d3-RRR-- tocopheryl acetate and d6-all-rac--tocopherols acetate) for 6 evenings (days –6 to –1). Plasma -tocopherols, ascorbic acid, uric acid, and F2- isoprostanes were measured in blood samples collected on days –6 through 17. The urinary -tocopherol metabolite, -carboxy-ethyl-hydroxy- chroman (-CEHC), was measured on days –6, 0, and 17 in 24-h urine samples. Results: F2-isoprostanes were, on average, 40% higher in smokers than in nonsmokers. On day 0, plasma labeled and unlabeled -tocopherol concentrations were not significantly different between groups. Smoking resulted in faster fractional disappearance of plasma - tocopherol (0.215 ± 0.011 compared with 0.191 ± 0.009 pools/d; P < 0.05). Fractional disappearance rates of -tocopherol correlated with plasma ascorbic acid concentrations in smokers (P = 0.021) but not in nonsmokers despite plasma ascorbic acid concentrations that were not significantly different between groups. By day 17, cigarette smoking resulted in lower plasma -tocopherol concentrations and urinary excretion of labeled and unlabeled -CEHC (P < 0.05). Conclusions: Cigarette smoking increased -tocopherol disappearance. Greater rates of -tocopherol disappearance in smokers appear to be related to increased oxidative stress accompanied by lower plasma ascorbic acid concentrations. Thus, smokers have an increased requirement for both -tocopherol and ascorbic acid. Key Words: Oxidative stress • vitamin E • vitamin C • cigarette smoke • antioxidants • dietary requirements Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > So, has anyone asked him why he's hung up on iron in particular? << > [quoted text clipped - 113 lines] > > - Show quoted text - > On May 9, 11:37 pm, the Ferrous Fuckwit <clutching@straws> netkooked: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > --Bill Thompson Crawl back down the drain where you came from :-( |
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