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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2008The origins of asd advice and information
HI guys, Just had a thought! Contrary to advice handed out by the american diabetic association and the UK diabetes assosciation , many of us here are following the advice of each other - we are adamant that advice given by the so called professionals is incorrect and potentially harmful to the majority of us. Can I ask, where did the origins of this new found advice here begin? Do any of you know who the person was who first contradicted the professional's advice and how did it end up in asd? I am aware that although many people still follow the advice of the relative diabetic associations, but that most of us, through our own personal experience and observations, *know* that following the said advice can potentially keep our bg's at high levels - and, personally, I found going against said advice actually caused a rift between myself and the medical bodies that are there to assist me. If people insist on keeping the blinkers on, how on earth are any of us meant to control our diabetes to a point where we are not compromising our health any more than it is now with our dx? For example, if I should *ever* faint due to a plunge in bg and end up in hospital - I am then at the mercy of doctors and nurses following the diabetic assosications advice and likely to end up in worse trouble than I was by following my own diet and advice from here - scary stuff! >HI guys, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >diabetic assosications advice and likely to end up in worse trouble >than I was by following my own diet and advice from here - scary stuff! >Can I ask, where did the origins of this new found advice here begin? >Do any of you know who the person was who first contradicted the >professional's advice and how did it end up in asd? I can only speak for myself, as a latecomer on the scene. And I should qualify that some of us don't totally disagree with the professionals - just with their dietary advice. However, that is so important that it can severely weaken our trust in them overall. Some of the true old-timers will hopefully chime in with the history prior to that time; I've cross-posted this to misc.health.diabetes for that reason, because that's where it really started and that's where a few of them still read - Nico, Willbill, Doc Briggs occasionally and others. I know some of them will be able to talk of the early days with Jude Crouch, who was gone by the time I arrived. Personally, I came along in 2002, initially in mhd. The feeling of frustration with the ADA and other diabetes authorities was here then but possibly not as strong. Maybe my experiences, and others since, increased that frustration. Jennifer's advice was just so sensible. When I first read it - and it wasn't immediate, it was several weeks after arrival that Flying Rat sent me to the version on his website at http://jennifer.flyingrat.net/ - I had that 'Doh!' reaction of "why wasn't I already doing this?". For a long while I suspected that Jennifer was a fictitious person invented by the a.s.d. webmaster to present that advice; that was until I read her posting to newbies on a.s.d. and other groups. She is definitely real:-) However, she has never clarified how she came to write the "test, test, test" advice or what sources she drew on. Possibly Bernstein, possibly Derek Paice or maybe just an amalgam of ideas here. But since that time I have become an evangelist for that advice in every forum I can find that lets me promote it. And any type 2 I meet who stands still long enough to hear it. As an allied aspect, speaking of web-masters, I wrote the following in 2005 to those who are the unsung heroes behind the scenes. This may be an appropriate time to repeat it: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diabetes/msg/3c667916e157f40e? I will be forever grateful to all the workers who kept mhd and asd going long enough for me to find them. Even the ones I argue with:-) Because, without them, the newsgroup would have died. Of course, the multitude of posters over the years were needed too - but without the backstage workers, the show would have folded. I can't speak for others, but for me that would have meant a shorter life. I mean that quite literally. Those people who worked behind the scenes - on the initial founding of the groups, and on the web-site, the mhd FAQs, then the spin-offs with asd.uk and affiliated chat room deserve a long and loud round of applause. I know who some of them are, but most choose to work unrecognised and unrewarded. I can respect and understand that, but I would still like to propose a toast to them all. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. We can't all be heroes because somebody has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by. Will Rogers (1879 - 1935) >However, she has never clarified how she came to write the >"test, test, test" advice or what sources she drew on. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >lets me promote it. And any type 2 I meet who stands still >long enough to hear it. Funny you should mention that. A few days ago, I was asked by a friend if I had lost weight, and wondered why and how. I told him, and he mentioned he was Type 2, but had never been able to lose weight. When I asked him what his usual breakfast was, he said "bacon and eggs, 3 eggs, 4 strips bacon". I asked about toast, and he said "4 slices". I told him what I eat for breakfast, and why, then mentioned that I had some stuff I could print off that might help his BG readings, and weight. He doesn't have a computer. So this morning I gave him hard copies of "Newly Diagnosed" and "Weight Loss Cooking and Eating", and mentioned that I follow that pretty closely, and that it seems to be working well. Then this afternoon, a lady I know asked the same thing, and in the ensuing conversation, I found out her husband is T2. When I told her about my diet, she asked "No whole grains?". She was quite interested in what I had to say, and I'll be sending her some links to look over. Seems her husband is not doing all that well, having had a recent heart attack and some peripheral neuropathy. The beauty of all this, of course, is that I don't have to try to convince anyone to eat particular things. I think people are more likely to follow advice that makes sense, and in this case, they don't have to trust what I say, and can make their own determination, using their meters.  SignatureLarry, T2, Saskatchewan, Canada. DX 24 Aug 07. D&E Metformin 2000mg, Ramipril, Simvastatin Dx A1c 8.1 : Latest 5.1 (4 Mar 08) >>However, she has never clarified how she came to write the >>"test, test, test" advice or what sources she drew on. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >Seems her husband is not doing all that well, having had a recent >heart attack and some peripheral neuropathy. You met them too??? Yes I recently met a couple like that, he had been doing quite well until his heart attack and now couldn't keep his BG down. Sadly they were probably told something like this GDA Energy (kcal) 2500 2000 Recommended 11251500 9001200 Carbohydrate (kcal) Recommended 300400 240320 Carbohydrate (g) Equivalent number 2027 1621 of 15g portions (one medium slice of bread) (quote from a DUK pdf about diet, fdirst column for males second for females) >The beauty of all this, of course, is that I don't have to try to >convince anyone to eat particular things. I think people are more >likely to follow advice that makes sense, and in this case, they don't >have to trust what I say, and can make their own determination, using >their meters. Exactly! >Jennifer's advice was just so sensible. When I first read it >- and it wasn't immediate, it was several weeks after [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >lets me promote it. And any type 2 I meet who stands still >long enough to hear it. In reviewing some old posts on my blog I just realised that I do have some of that information on how Jennifer came to write the "test, test, test" advice; it's just that my erratic memory had forgotten my own post of "Jennifer's Story" on my blog last June. Not so much on the writing of it, but on how she developed it: http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2007/06/jennifers-story.html Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. -- d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com http://loraltravel.blogspot.com Latest: Bangkok >Can I ask, where did the origins of this new found advice here begin? >Do any of you know who the person was who first contradicted the >professional's advice and how did it end up in asd? I'd love to know how Jennifer formulated her test,test,test advice. IMO, part of its genius is that it doesn't directly contradict the medical advice - it just makes it blatantly clear that they have no idea what's happening (at least mine didn't, until I met an endo 9mo after dx). Jenny's research is hugely helpful because it gives you a realistic explanation of why control is important, to follow up Jennifer's How. A great combo : ) As for low carbing for obesity - Banting was 1890s, I think! That's the low-carbing Banting, not the insulin one... Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >>Can I ask, where did the origins of this new found advice here begin? >>Do any of you know who the person was who first contradicted the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >idea what's happening (at least mine didn't, until I met an endo 9mo >after dx). Agreed! >Jenny's research is hugely helpful because it gives you a realistic >explanation of why control is important, to follow up Jennifer's How. >A great combo : ) > >As for low carbing for obesity - Banting was 1890s, I think! That's >the low-carbing Banting, not the insulin one... I saw a reference to low carbing for reactive hypoglycemia from 1924 and I can recall back in the seventies or so that cutting out starches was the usual method of weight loss. Mother agrees that went back at least to the twenties for weight loss if not for diabetes, so the information was known for a long time and then hidden by the low fat fanatics in the meantime. Don't forget Richard Bernstein . . . >>Can I ask, where did the origins of this new found advice here begin? >>Do any of you know who the person was who first contradicted the >>professional's advice and how did it end up in asd? > >I'd love to know how Jennifer formulated her test,test,test advice. G'day G'day Nicky, Repeated testing provides closed loop control. The diabetic keeps adjusting their diet to do what is required for their diet to work. The aim is to learn from testing and for the diabetic to play a central role in deciding what is OK for them to eat and what is not. Closed loop control is superior to open loop control where some external agency decides at the beginning what diet one is to follow and one sticks to it regardless of the results. Guided missiles use closed loop control. Artillery shells use open loop control. Once fired the shell goes where ever it is headed unless wind and other accidental features divert it. Guided missiles keep correcting for windage and movement of the target. In the case of a T2 the target will change depending on how much exercise you do and how much you lose weight. Put simply closed loop control is a vastly superior form of control, the sort of thing one would use if one's life depended on it, which of course it does. Jennifer's introduction is so kind and gentle she makes what needs to be done easy to adopt as a matter of lifestyle. The other strong feature contained in her advice to the newly diagnosed is she chose blood glucose levels that agree with modern knowledge about safe levels for various forms of nerve damage rather than older levels which have subsequently been shown to be dangerous. >IMO, part of its genius is that it doesn't directly contradict the >medical advice - it just makes it blatantly clear that they have no [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >explanation of why control is important, to follow up Jennifer's How. >A great combo : ) [snip] >Nicky. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin The best part for me was the INSTANT results and stability the test test test and eating nutirient dense but low spiking foods did to me! I recall the doctors telling me to never expect to go under a 300 bg reading and surley i was going to come back in a few days to get on insulin. I body built for my own enjoyment for years and i already knew how eating low gi and low carb worked for me in maintaining lean muscle mass while losing fat ..so this group and my own research and follow testing with a meter . The day i was dx i changed my diet back to the my summer getting in shape way of eating and was in a non-diabetic number range withing two days..the only mess ups were trying things like the so called diabetic ceral and some free bars i got from the diatician that tasted disgusting and spiked me thru thr roof. I too join in the long cheer for this group and the new life it brought me with info and good people to gab at who "get" me. KROM >>>Can I ask, where did the origins of this new found advice here begin? >>>Do any of you know who the person was who first contradicted the [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Best wishes, >The best part for me was the INSTANT results and stability the test test >test and eating nutirient dense but low spiking foods did to me! [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >free bars i got from the diatician that tasted disgusting and spiked me thru >thr roof. You did well in achieving such good results so quickly and discovered some of the pitfalls associated with other approaches. There is a lesson for all of us that in some cases getting tight control can be achieved rapidly. That doesn't mean every one can achieve such rapid change. Also it doesn't mean it is wise to achieve rapid change. Many people do it but there have been occasional reports of eye damage where people who have had high blood glucose for a long time lower their blood glucose rapidly. >I too join in the long cheer for this group and the new life it brought me >with info and good people to gab at who "get" me. > >KROM Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin Yes your right not everyone is the same...i went from fine to very sick withing a few months..i worked out and ate good pre dx and was taking my usually 4-6 month of working out break I usually after several months working out take a few weeks off to totally rest muscles and when you go back at it you see more gains theh if you worked straight thru..also prevents overtraining which do real damage. So on my offtime i was relaxing the diet and eating more bread as i was trying out baking fresh healthy bread as the store shelfs are all hfcs laiden garbage. I also was trying to make my own kettle corn and after i ate some felt really really awful and thought i had a cold or flu and was gettign hungrier and hungrier and thirstier and thirstier and more and more tired.. My vision improved with MY regaining control..but as i say iw as lucky i wasnt ill long. Good info as always quentin! KROM > You did well in achieving such good results so quickly and discovered > some of the pitfalls associated with other approaches. There is a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > where people who have had high blood glucose for a long time lower > their blood glucose rapidly. >Yes your right not everyone is the same...i went from fine to very sick >withing a few months..i worked out and ate good pre dx and was taking my [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >trying out baking fresh healthy bread as the store shelfs are all hfcs >laiden garbage. There are many reasons why our attention can be diverted from what we should be doing. It is something I've experienced thanks to all the other matters I've had to deal with. I've had a tremendous improvement when I went back to having a flax fibre breakfast. This time I've mixed equal parts of flax fibre with LSA, linseed, sunflower and almonds. This I've stirred with plenty of water and microwaved for four minutes to make a form of porridge. If someone has been generous with raspberries I've added a few of those. Not only is my bg after breakfast been low but so has the levels after other meals during the day. This continued effect throughout the day has come as a bit of a surprise to me. Never the less I'm happy to have noticed the effect and to have been able to put the information into practice on a regular basis. >I also was trying to make my own kettle corn and after i ate some felt >really really awful and thought i had a cold or flu and was gettign hungrier >and hungrier and thirstier and thirstier and more and more tired.. That must have been awful. The good news is this time you knew what was happening and what to do to reverse the situation. >My vision improved with MY regaining control..but as i say iw as lucky i >wasnt ill long. Absolutely. We all live and hope we don't do permanent damage when for some reason we've been slack. >Good info as always quentin! Thank you. >KROM Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >>>Can I ask, where did the origins of this new found advice here begin? >>>Do any of you know who the person was who first contradicted the >>>professional's advice and how did it end up in asd? >> >>I'd love to know how Jennifer formulated her test,test,test advice. > G'day G'day Nicky, > Repeated testing provides closed loop control. The diabetic keeps > adjusting their diet to do what is required for their diet to work. > The aim is to learn from testing and for the diabetic to play a > central role in deciding what is OK for them to eat and what is not. > Closed loop control is superior to open loop control where some > external agency decides at the beginning what diet one is to follow > and one sticks to it regardless of the results. > Guided missiles use closed loop control. Artillery shells use open > loop control. Once fired the shell goes where ever it is headed > unless wind and other accidental features divert it. Guided missiles > keep correcting for windage and movement of the target. In the case > of a T2 the target will change depending on how much exercise you do > and how much you lose weight. > Put simply closed loop control is a vastly superior form of control, > the sort of thing one would use if one's life depended on it, which of > course it does. Jennifer's introduction is so kind and gentle she > makes what needs to be done easy to adopt as a matter of lifestyle. What one regards as closed or open loop control depends on what one decides is allowable within the control loop. Doing your own testing and adjustments closes the loop round you and the time frame in which you make the tests and adjustments, which if you want can be less than an hour. Reporting your BGs to your doc and asking him what to do closes the loop round your doc visits, which I suppose could be less than a week. Think of it as like a car driver trying to keep under a speed limit. The efficient way of doing that is to not the speed limit in force, check the speedometer regularly, and adjust the throttle as appropriate. The inefficient way would be to ring up your driving instructor and say "You told me the speed limit for this road was 60mph. I've just checked my speedometer and it says 75mph. What should I do?" That's so absurdly inefficient as to be a joke. Yet that's exactly how many diabetics "manage" their blood sugar levels. Not only that, but it's how many doctors *advise* their diabetic patients to behave. They obviously think their diabetic patients are far too stupid to be able to drive by themselves. No wonder their patients keep having accidents due to driving too fast :-) SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] >>>>Can I ask, where did the origins of this new found advice here begin? >>>>Do any of you know who the person was who first contradicted the [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >60mph. I've just checked my speedometer and it says 75mph. What should >I do?" That's so absurdly inefficient as to be a joke. Steven Wright had a good one... "I was pulled over by a policeman. He said I was doing 60 miles per hour. I told him I wasn't going to be out that long." >Yet that's exactly how many diabetics "manage" their blood sugar >levels. Not only that, but it's how many doctors *advise* their >diabetic patients to behave. They obviously think their diabetic >patients are far too stupid to be able to drive by themselves. No >wonder their patients keep having accidents due to driving too fast >:-) Signatureroses are #FF0000 violets are #0000FF all my base are belong to you >>>>>Can I ask, where did the origins of this new found advice here begin? >>>>>Do any of you know who the person was who first contradicted the [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >>closes the loop round your doc visits, which I suppose could be less >>than a week. A week??? You'll be lucky, currently it's about three weeks here. >>Think of it as like a car driver trying to keep under a speed >>limit. The efficient way of doing that is to not the speed limit in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >said I was doing 60 miles per hour. I told him I wasn't going to be >out that long." I used to know a Polish trucker. Once stopped for speeding he put on his thickest and most impenetrable accent (he could speak English better than many English people) "You are going too fast!" said the poilceman slowly "No, I is going to Bristol" when he saw how many zees were in his name he was let off with a warning >>Yet that's exactly how many diabetics "manage" their blood sugar >>levels. Not only that, but it's how many doctors *advise* their >>diabetic patients to behave. They obviously think their diabetic >>patients are far too stupid to be able to drive by themselves. No >>wonder their patients keep having accidents due to driving too fast >>:-) Nice analogy. Sadly. >>>>>>Can I ask, where did the origins of this new found advice here begin? >>>>>>Do any of you know who the person was who first contradicted the [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > >Nice analogy. Sadly. Our bodies use many closed loop systems. The system may be nerve or chemical. The one we think about is the glucose control system. In diabetics some component to this system is not working properly. Think about temperature control system or healing of a wound. Many more that allow a biological systems to operate. People like Old Al went into some details of the insulin glucose system. An elementary understanding is useful to me. Many of the instruments I helped develop were full of closed loop systems, so this is the way I think about things. ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- >Our bodies use many closed loop systems. The system may be >nerve or chemical. The one we think about is the glucose control [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Many of the instruments I helped develop were full of >closed loop systems, so this is the way I think about things. Yes in my case the answer is hysteresis, just like a busted thermostat. > >>>Can I ask, where did the origins of this new found advice here begin? > >>>Do any of you know who the person was who first contradicted the [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > 60mph. I've just checked my speedometer and it says 75mph. What should > I do?" That's so absurdly inefficient as to be a joke. Moreover, the absolutely wrong way to do it would be to change the grade of gasoline or to switch the type of fuel to regulate the speed. The latter would be analogous to the ASD advice to change diet to control blood glucose. Instead, it remains much smarter to eat less, down to the right amount: http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeSmart Here again is that simple parable given in hopes of promoting much greater understanding: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Parable Life in these industrialized countries remains essentially life in blessed feed lots. <>< http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Counsels >>>>Can I ask, where did the origins of this new found advice here begin? >>>>Do any of you know who the person was who first contradicted the [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >wonder their patients keep having accidents due to driving too fast >:-) G'day G'day Chris, I like your driving your own car analogy maintaining one's blood glucose from one's own testing. It's simple for most people to understand. IMHO the self monitoring and adjustment schema works so much better than the open loop system where a person follows a diet prescribed by a nutritionist or a GP which they feel they must follow lest something awful happens. Please note that I'm talking about blood glucose control and not some other medical problems for which there isn't the equivalent of self blood glucose testing. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin > HI guys, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Do any of you know who the person was who first contradicted the > professional's advice and how did it end up in asd? Oh, Usenet diabetes advice-giving long predates asd. Look at misc.health.diabetes back in May of 1993. Notice who the third poster to the group was :-). As far as I'm concerned, asd was started because there was too much good medical information mixed with a bunch of crackpots and spam in misc.health.diabetes. Of course within a few weeks asd had all the crackpots and spam but was missing all the medical information. The misc.health.diabetes FAQ is still extremely valuable. Tim. On 5/9/08 5:38 AM, in article fe87e4c8-9e7f-4afa-b2e4-e64df4d5bd33@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, "Tim Shoppa" <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote: >> HI guys, >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Tim. Thanks for telling us when mhd started. Now I have an idea when I started lurking. Must have been around 1995.There was Dr. Richard Stampe from U of Toronto, and an Australian doctor who never gave his name. For some unknown reason (senile dementia?) I can't remember the name of our doc in Texas. He was around then too. No doubt I'll remember his name as soon as I send this. I remember they were most helpful in the early days. There are lots of names I could add,but don't. And of course Edward Reid and his wife Melynda. Beav and Ratty could sure add a lot. SignatureMartha T2 Canada 1500mg. Metformin, 4mg. Avandia > On 5/9/08 5:38 AM, in article > fe87e4c8-9e7f-4afa-b2e4-e64df4d5bd33@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, "Tim [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > I could add,but don't. And of course Edward Reid and his wife Melynda. Beav > and Ratty could sure add a lot. Dr Richard Stampe from the University of Toronto was a PhD type of Dr, he had neuropathy and shared his 'cocktail' with us i believe he was around in ?? 2001 ? or so (don't quote me) lol Signaturekate type 1 since 1987 www.diabetic-talk.org Hi Kate/Tiger_Lily: > Dr Richard Stampe from the University of Toronto was a PhD type of Dr, > he had neuropathy and shared his 'cocktail' with us > > i believe he was around in ?? 2001 ? or so (don't quote me) lol Apparently he went by Dave and it was around 2001. There were 289 threads mentioning his last name. Some of the other posters at that time can also be identified. Google group search for Stampe+neuropathy - http://tinyurl.com/3unu99 Frank > Hi Kate/Tiger_Lily: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Frank right, Frank, it was Dave Stampe ! he had some good information to pass on to us :) Signaturekate type 1 since 1987 www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/newly%20diagnosed.html > Hi Kate/Tiger_Lily: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Google group search for Stampe+neuropathy - > http://tinyurl.com/3unu99 I remember Dave Stampe but don't recall that he was a Dr. >> Hi Kate/Tiger_Lily: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> Google group search for Stampe+neuropathy - >> http://tinyurl.com/3unu99 > I remember Dave Stampe but don't recall that he was a Dr. He's a PhD, not a medical doctor. A PhD in electrical engineering and cognitive science. Which means that unlike most medical doctors (but like Bernstein) he has a sophisticated understanding of control theory. That makes it very much easier for him to devise and apply an efficient BG control regime. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] On May 9, 4:32 am, Helen Back <SiriusC...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > HI guys, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Do any of you know who the person was who first contradicted the > professional's advice and how did it end up in asd? Oh, Usenet diabetes advice-giving long predates asd. Look at misc.health.diabetes back in May of 1993. Notice who the third poster to the group was :-). As far as I'm concerned, asd was started because there was too much good medical information mixed with a bunch of crackpots and spam in misc.health.diabetes. Of course within a few weeks asd had all the crackpots and spam but was missing all the medical information. The misc.health.diabetes FAQ is still extremely valuable. -------------------- Lol, are you saying all the crackpots are us? :) That we just shifted groups, lol.? > Lol, are you saying all the crackpots are us? :) That we just shifted > groups, lol.? :-). No, I think I was talking about Betty Martini and her kind. Also throughout the 90's m.h.d. was flooded with a long continuing stream of "Cure Type 1 diabetes by taking this Chinese herbal remedy!" that got pretty reliably squashed by Carl Lydick! Folks here complain about Chung etc., but he wouldn't last a minute at the lashings of Carl Lydick! Tim. > HI guys, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > diabetic assosications advice and likely to end up in worse trouble > than I was by following my own diet and advice from here - scary stuff! the "diet wars" started on misc.health.diabetes, with a group of Bernstein fans, Atkins fans, then later Zone fans and South Beach fans (this was back in 1999, and i'm sure they had been battling for years already when i arrived) there were so many people involved in the 'wars' and some of them have just moved on, and others have passed away due to cancers, accidents, diabetes complications and other reasons the diet wars continue on in a.s.d. today Signaturekate type 1 since 1987 www.diabetic-talk.org The war is over... the indisputable conclusion is to eat the best food that produces the best results in each person...pretty cut and dry. One can argue what works or doesnt for them..but the base fact is its clear one must eat well and avoid complications...how thats achieved is up to the person but if they arent eating well and arent avoiding complications then they only have themselfs to blame..no sane person can argue one should eat garbarge and ignore complications. Even the ADA admits this is so ...they just diclaimer that they dont believe people will do it so they differ from what should be standard advice. eat well..live well..eat bad..live bad.. just my not so humble opinion..lol KROM > the "diet wars" started on misc.health.diabetes, with a group of Bernstein > fans, Atkins fans, then later Zone fans and South Beach fans (this was [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > the diet wars continue on in a.s.d. today LOL Krom Jennifer's advice didn't exist in 1999 the low carbers were ULTRA low carbers.......... eat no more than 30 grams of carbs a day......... no comment about GI of the food and the non-low carbers were ADA all the way......... 250 grams of carbs a day as a minimum things have moderated themselves a LOT in the passing years :) > The war is over... > the indisputable conclusion is to eat the best food that produces the best [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> >> the diet wars continue on in a.s.d. today Which is great..means we keep on learning and improving! sorta proud of us all! Yay us! KROM > LOL Krom > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >>> >>> the diet wars continue on in a.s.d. today oh yes! and Alan's advice on MODERATION in all things and Quentin's advice on nutrition have greatly increased the value of the dietary information being given here :) we really should get some posts up that return every 2 weeks, so that the newbies don't miss them, but oh my, there are ever so many to choose from! > Which is great..means we keep on learning and improving! > sorta proud of us all! [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >>>> >>>> the diet wars continue on in a.s.d. today I believe very strongly in having a pitbull like advocate who will make sure that if somthing does happen your wishes are followed..theres no rule that says you cant be brought your own meals to the hospital for example ..im sure my wife would be there like the voice of god making sure they DONT screw me up as tends to be thier way sadly. She is not shy at all and even when i see a reg doc she tells em to wash thier hands before examining me etc..lol...gotta love her! KROM > HI guys, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > diabetic assosications advice and likely to end up in worse trouble > than I was by following my own diet and advice from here - scary stuff! Thank you peeps! Alot of interesting info and comments. It even sparked off some wonderful links to other useful sites and even more helpful information. I wont respond individually, as I usually like to do, because I think summer has arrived in Britain and I'm out and about, soaking up the beautiful sun with frolics on the beach and generally pottering around. But thank you very much for comments. HB >Thank you peeps! Alot of interesting info and comments. It even >sparked off some wonderful links to other useful sites and even more [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >HB In case you didn't check the web-site, this may also interest you: http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/History.htm Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter. and Cambodia http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html >I wont respond individually, as I usually like to do, because I think >summer has arrived in Britain and I'm out and about, soaking up the >beautiful sun with frolics on the beach and generally pottering >around. Noooooooo! You've jinxed it!! Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > HI guys, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Can I ask, where did the origins of this new found advice here begin? The spirit of error (self). > Do any of you know who the person was who first contradicted the > professional's advice and how did it end up in asd? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I found going against said advice actually caused a rift between > myself and the medical bodies that are there to assist me. Such is the consequence of going against medical advice. Inherently, there is the inconsistency of seeking out advice without any intention of being helped by it. > If people insist on keeping the blinkers on, how on earth are any of > us meant to control our diabetes to a point where we are not > compromising our health any more than it is now with our dx? By seeking a cure through losing the VAT (black fat): http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeSmart > For > example, if I should *ever* faint due to a plunge in bg and end up in > hospital - I am then at the mercy of doctors and nurses following the > diabetic assosications advice and likely to end up in worse trouble > than I was by following my own diet and advice from here - scary stuff! Actually, folks taking in an adequate amount of carbs are less likely to have a potentially lethal hypoglycemic event. <>< http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Counsels |
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