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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2008Another good reason to control your diabetes
I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the Centers for disease Control and Prevention and the Department of Health and Human Services. They are charged with the gut wrenching dilemma of who to let die during a flu pandemic or other disaster." In a nutshell...it goes like this as to the people who won't be treated. "Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure, lung disease or POORLY CONTROLLED DIABETES. Others who won't be treated: "People over 85 Those with severe trauma Severely burned patients who are over 60 Those with mental impairment, which could include Alzheimers." Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) I would like to know, how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled diabetics are though. Cheri -- Cheri > I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic > Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > -- > Cheri This is what happens when the whiny public remands that government get into the healthcare business. I continue to be astonished that people beg for government intervention in the most private parts of their lives - their bodies and then are shocked when they get exactly what they ask for. Moreover, I cannot think of a single "national emergency" where the government was remotely prepared to deal with the sudden spike of demand of *all* services. These are civil servants we're talking about. In most countries, they cannot be fired even if they are grossly negligent or incompetent, their departments are virtually never disbanded, and unlike elected officials, they cannot be removed by the people at large. Government run healthcare is just another slip down the slope to totalitariansm. I'll take the inequities of private sector healthcare over the lowest common denominator of political scoundrels "taking care" of me... antmeeter@yahoo.com wrote in message ... >Moreover, I cannot think of a single "national emergency" where the >government was remotely [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >lowest common denominator of political scoundrels "taking care" of >me... And....we know in a real national emergency, they'll be hunkered in their bunkers, drinking good wine, eating good food, and watching the rest of us scurry about on their big screen TVs. Damn...........there goes another uncontrolled diabetic. LOL Cheri >> I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic >> Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > lowest common denominator of political scoundrels "taking care" of > me... You must have reliable, inexpensive health insurance. I think the 45 million people who have no health insurance at all might disagree.  SignatureBest regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise BMI 21.5 > <antmee...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > Best regards, > Michelle C., T2 1) When those "45 million who have no health insurance" make me pay for it, then I get to demand that they work to minimize their cost to me. That means I am going to lobby my government to make every one of them exercise regularly, cease drinking and smoking entirely, quit reproducing (if they can't afford insurance, they can't afford children), no fast food, no red meat ... see where this is going? With the government carrot comes the government stick. You *cannot* have government intervention without a loss of freedom to someone. 2) 'Grew up in an immigrant family that was fairly poor and had minimal health insurance for years. We still managed to see a doctor as necessary. How? We *worked* and paid our bills. And, since the Drs. didn't have government funny money and bureaucracy with which to tinker, they focused on the delivery of cost-effective medicine. Did I have coverage like a movie star? No. Did we go broke when Mom went into the hospital for a month. No. >> <antmee...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > hospital > for a month. No. Most of those 45 million are working. If they are disabled or below the poverty line, they are entitled to Medicaid. And then there are those like many on ASD who are denied health insurance entirely because they have diabetes--doesn't matter whether they can afford it or not. SignatureBest regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise BMI 21.5 On 5/5/08 10:00 AM, in article c431a0a6-d713-4d52-b0bb-dbccaa920ae5@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com, >> I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic >> Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > lowest common denominator of political scoundrels "taking care" of > me... This has nothing to do with government health care. This is called triage. They are planning who should be treated first in the event of a national disaster. If you read closely, you will see the organizations mentioned are all American. SignatureMartha T2 Canada 1500mg. Metformin, 4mg. Avandia >This is what happens when the whiny public remands that government get >into the healthcare business. Nonsense. We have no such lists here that I am aware of, in our blend of Government and Private health systems.. However, whether it is government or private enterprise, hospitals and health treatment centres will always have a triage system. The only difference with this report is that someone has published guidelines. In the real world, triage nurses are doing this all day, every day. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile? and Cambodia http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html > In the real world, triage nurses are doing this all day, > every day. The notion of triage was developed for the battlefield. The idea was to quickly determine whether providing care would 1. Save a life 2. kill someone else by caring instead for a patient who was not hurt as badly 3. kill someone else by caring instead for a patient who is a lost cause In the real world today, "triage" means making all patients wait a considerable amount of time while they check blood pressure, pulse, temperature, and especially insurance in order of patient arrival. SignatureWes Groleau You're all individuals! Yes, we're all individuals! You're all different! Yes, we are all different! I'm not! ("Life of Brian") >The idea was to quickly determine whether providing >care would [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >they check blood pressure, pulse, temperature, >and especially insurance in order of patient arrival. Do I detect a faint note of cynicism Wes? :-) You've reminded me of the day many years ago when I was literally writhing on the floor in pain from a kidney stone in front of the ER entry desk as this evil woman asked me, in a bored and exasperated voice, for my name, address, Oz Medicare card and various other details. At that moment the doc walked in, looked down, said "you're next" and another nurse bustled up and got me onto a gurney. I don't think any of those waiting on the seats around me objected. Incidentally, that visit cost me nothing when I left that night after passing the stone. Nor did the follow-ups with the urologist, x-rays etc. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter. and Cambodia http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html > Do I detect a faint note of cynicism Wes? :-) > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > in a bored and exasperated voice, for my name, address, Oz > Medicare card and various other details. I think you detect a slight note of "been there, done that" Mine was _almost_ as bad as yours. My wife had to give them all the IMPORTANT details because I itched so badly I could neither talk nor hold still. Then I was ignored, still dancing wildly, slapping at the itching, and trying not to scream too loudly. When there was a slight lull, I said, "Let's go somewhere else." Went to an "urgent care" doctor who did something that seemed to help. Later that day, though, we went to an ER in a different city with a similar wait. But the itching was worse and they finally gave me some morphine to cut down on the noise. When I was eight years old, I wandered around an E.R. for what seemed like hours with bone exposed in the end of my finger. (And that was 1962, so I'm not so sure about the claims that quality of care has worsened.) SignatureWes Groleau After the christening of his baby brother in church, Jason sobbed all the way home in the back seat of the car. His father asked him three times what was wrong. Finally, the boy replied, "That preacher said he wanted us brought up in a Christian home, and I wanted to stay with you guys." > Incidentally, that visit cost me nothing when I left that > night after passing the stone. Nor did the follow-ups with [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > and Cambodia > http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html You're making me jealous, Alan. SignatureBest regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise BMI 21.5 >In the real world today, "triage" means making all >patients wait a considerable amount of time while >they check blood pressure, pulse, temperature, >and especially insurance in order of patient arrival. not in any of the dozen or more trips to the ER at various hospitals I have been too in the last year. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . > This is what happens when the whiny public remands that government get > into the healthcare business. > I continue to be astonished that people beg for government > intervention in the most private parts of > their lives - their bodies and then are shocked when they get exactly > what they ask for. Most of us know the gist of the following but analogies are often helpful: If Mother Theresa or your fairy god mother is a 10 and the Mafia is a 1, The government is 2.3. > Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but > they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for > everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) I would like to know, > how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled > diabetics are though. We're the ones who complain about our feet hurting all the time, and drool at the sight of hi-carb foods. >I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic >Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Severely burned patients who are over 60 >Those with mental impairment, which could include Alzheimers." They didn't include Jews and homosexuals??? >Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but >they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for >everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) I would like to know, >how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled >diabetics are though. easy, they check to see if you read asd >>I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic >>Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > easy, they check to see if you read asd So you think the ones who read asd are poorly controlled, rather than the diabetics who don't? <snip> >>> I would like to know, >>>how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >So you think the ones who read asd are poorly controlled, rather than >the diabetics who don't? Nah, we'll be well-controlled by definition. They simply check our computer hard-drives to see if we've book-marked Jennifer's Advice. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile? and Cambodia http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html >Nah, we'll be well-controlled by definition. They simply >check our computer hard-drives to see if we've book-marked >Jennifer's Advice. > >Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. <snort> The logical way would be to violate the privacy between doctor and patient and read one's A1c. That is probably all too easy to do without even approaching a GP by looking through the lab records. Thanks Cheri for bringing to our attention a rather scary application of the triage that would necessary in such circumstances. I better put on my best smile that day. <griM> SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >>>Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but >>>they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >So you think the ones who read asd are poorly controlled, rather than >the diabetics who don't? No no no, I mean if you *don't* read asd you're on the list (if you use the ADA forums you're on the list twice) >No no no, I mean if you *don't* read asd you're on the list > >(if you use the ADA forums you're on the list twice) Hmm. That makes me -1 and +2. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter. and Cambodia http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html >>No no no, I mean if you *don't* read asd you're on the list >> >>(if you use the ADA forums you're on the list twice) > >Hmm. That makes me -1 and +2. Ah but you're only there as a subversive >>>No no no, I mean if you *don't* read asd you're on the list >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Ah but you're only there as a subversive Hmm...I prefer to see it as an educator:-) Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter. and Cambodia http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html >>>>No no no, I mean if you *don't* read asd you're on the list >>>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Hmm...I prefer to see it as an educator:-) My point exactly. :P >>>Ah but you're only there as a subversive >> >>Hmm...I prefer to see it as an educator:-) > >My point exactly. :P LOL. You both crack me up. Thanks. SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >>>>Ah but you're only there as a subversive >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >LOL. You both crack me up. Thanks. In that context, you might like this one: http://tinyurl.com/4rau7q Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter. and Cambodia http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html >I would like to know, >>how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled >>diabetics are though. > >easy, they check to see if you read asd Of course! Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile? and Cambodia http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html >>Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but >>they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >easy, they check to see if you read asd LOL! The perfect test :D Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic > Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Health and Human Services. They are charged with the gut wrenching > dilemma of who to let die during a flu pandemic or other disaster." We, who are medical professionals, are expecting that the Pan-Flu will happen though only GOD knows when: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/Pan-Flu > In a nutshell...it goes like this as to the people who won't be > treated. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for > everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) We call this "triage." > I would like to know, > how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled > diabetics are though. We have our clinical judgment. Those with love in their hearts for all souls will try to help all souls regardless of "triage" guidelines: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/TeamSamaritan <>< http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Love Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in message >Those with love in their hearts for all souls will try to help all >souls regardless of "triage" guidelines: I know it's true that the doctors on scene will make the judgment calls as to who they can help, and I know that most of them will try to help all that they can, so I just don't see why "the panel" had to put those particular triage guidelines into words. It sounds like something out of wartime Germany to me. Cheri > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > calls as to who they can help, and I know that most of them will try > to help all that they can... The doctors, who have Jesus' love in their hearts, will be both willing and able to give up their lives to help all whom GOD allows them to help in keeping with Jesus' new commandment "love each other as I have loved you." > , so I just don't see why "the panel" had to > put those particular triage guidelines into words. It is possible that those guidelines will be used by evildoers to test the faith of Christian doctors. May we, who are Christian doctors, pass this test, if/when it happens, with GOD's help, in Jesus' name. > It sounds like > something out of wartime Germany to me. Sadly and tragically, there was no love in the hearts of the leaders of wartime Germany. Marana tha <>< http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Love : Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in message : >Those with love in their hearts for all souls will try to help all : >souls regardless of "triage" guidelines: : I know it's true that the doctors on scene will make the judgment : calls as to who they can help, and I know that most of them will try : to help all that they can, so I just don't see why "the panel" had to : put those particular triage guidelines into words. It sounds like : something out of wartime Germany to me. : Cheri My mother was part of a large family(8 girls adn 1 boy). One time(this wa back in the 1900's) there was an epidemic of scarlet fever in the house. The doctor was busy treating all the girls as best he could and jus had to decide to let the baby in the crib, who also had th fever, untreated and let her live or die as best she could (she was either 6 ot 7 of the girls-no boy yet). she did survive, but was left with hearing problems as a result of the illness. all the older girls survived with no lasting effects. My moher remembered standing by the crib feeling so bad that no one was helping Baby Josie. I guess that families could only stretch so far with all that sickness adn no real medications the, jus tthings like cool compresses on the head, etc. Wendy Our dear friend Wingless in Wyoming wrote > Dear Andy Landers > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Wingless in Wyoming Dear Wingless in Wyoming God works in mysterious ways and it is not for us to know until God wants us to know. I agree that we should all pray to God that He will have the Holy Spirit tell those to whom the Holy Soirit speaks and uses their web pages. It will be a good test of their importance if they can get that information. Andy Landers > Our dear friend Wingless in Wyoming wrote > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Andy Landers You really should clean up your old homepage. And get rid of the blue gun. Signaturemonkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because trying to prove the existence of God is prohibited by their undebatable policy. ** Atheists have blind faith in their ability to know of all actual or possible modes of existence. Such hubris cannot be good for science. On Tue, 6 May 2008 11:17:20 -0500, our wise and kind Andy Landers wrote > Dear Wingless in Wyoming > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Andy Landers Dear Andy Landers Thank you for your response. Hopefully our prayers will be answered. I have always been very impressed with your wisdom and kindness. Speaking about birds ..... I was on sightseeing trip in the ocean and was fascinating to see the albatrosses. They are among the largest flying birds, weighing in at up to 22 pounds - that is 22 with two 2's - wonder if that means anything. Albatrosses are oceanic birds and they live at sea and find their fish and food on the open ocean - they just swoosh down and grab a fish for a meal. I like fishing but stay away from the bottom-feeders with big mouths who live on the bottom and with their big mouths just eat all the crap and so are just full of it. Wingless in Wyoming >I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic >Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Cheri Simple, the real definition is going to be "all diabetics". SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForMack > >I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic > >Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Simple, the real definition is going to be "all diabetics". Quite possibly for most diabetics when diabetic medications become no longer available. <>< http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Counsels On May 7, 4:37 am, lov...@thetruth.com wrote: > http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForMack > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Which might make us among the luckiest people in case of pandemic. Somewhere on a group, I read someone's theory about SARS. It was becoming such a problem in Canada that people were being inoculated with an anti virus vaccine. It became so great that they had to close the hospitals. When they did that the SARS problem seemed to disappear. Speculation was that the vaccine was what was doing the damage. When they stopped treating--no more epidemic. Dolores > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > convicted neighbor M@ck wrote: [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > > Which might make us among the luckiest people in case of pandemic. No such thing as luck (Proverbs 16:33) > Somewhere on a group, I read someone's theory about SARS. It was > becoming such a problem in Canada that people were being inoculated > with an anti virus vaccine. A vaccine for Pan-Flu will not become available until months if not years after its emergence: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/Pan-Flu Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthier Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow |
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