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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2008

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Liver recovery

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JC - 04 May 2008 22:28 GMT
Hi,

I got out of hospital 12 days ago after an operation to remove cancer
from the bowel and liver.   Recovery seems to be going well except for a
constant weight drop - I lost 5Kg while in hospital and another 5Kg
since leaving hospital.

During the operation the doctor removed 60% of the liver.   While in the
hospital I had readings ranging from 6.6 to 12.5 mmol/L with the
majority in the 8.5 and above range.    Since leaving hospital the
readings have been lower but still higher than I was seeing before the
operation.   An example is a bowl of porridge with diced apple was
enough to blow my reading to 10.1 one hour after the meal.

I presume that these higher readings are due to my only having 40% of
the liver.    How long will the liver take to recover enough to return
to my normal range of readings?
Signature


Cheers . . . JC

Nicky - 04 May 2008 22:34 GMT
>I presume that these higher readings are due to my only having 40% of
>the liver.    How long will the liver take to recover enough to return
>to my normal range of readings?

Interesting question - to which I have no answer! Although if a bowl
of porridge AND an apple only took you to 10.1, I'm amazed... I scored
33 last time I ate porridge! But the liver will regenerate, so I guess
you have a balancing act in the meantime when you should be nice to
your beta cells... keeping lower numbers will presumably speed
healing. It will be very interesting to know what your "normal"
numbers are when your liver no longer has cancer and the associated
inflammation. Be nice if they truly were normal!

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 05 May 2008 00:39 GMT
> >I presume that these higher readings are due to my only having 40% of
> >the liver.    How long will the liver take to recover enough to return
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> of porridge AND an apple only took you to 10.1, I'm amazed... I scored
> 33 last time I ate porridge!

This would suggest that you are very insulin resistant.

This may have possibly arisen from your low-carbing for many years
with the known deleterious effects of acetone on the liver.

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic:

http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthier

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow
Alan S - 05 May 2008 01:35 GMT
>Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>the liver.    How long will the liver take to recover enough to return
>to my normal range of readings?

First - best wishes for a speedy and full recovery.

To add to Nicky's good advice, recent papers show that
maintaining BG's as close as possible to normal numbers is
vital post-surgery.  One paper among several:
http://www.jci.org/114/9/1187?content_type=abstract

In your position I would be adding porridge and apple to the
"to be tested again in three months time" list. On my own
list that combination will be tested again when I enter the
old folks home.

With your new circumstances it may be time for a thorough
review using Jennifer's advice; subject to any dietary
constraints your doctors have advised:
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile?
and Cambodia
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html
JC - 05 May 2008 22:50 GMT
>>Hi,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>constraints your doctors have advised:
>http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm

Hi Alan,

I haven't eaten porridge for many years but decided to try it out as a
means of arresting the steady weight drop.   It seems to be having an
effect but, as you suggested, the high BS readings mean that I should
try something different.

What do you suppose it is in the porridge that raises the BS levels?

The weight loss is a problem - I am now 10Kg below the recommended
weight if we can trust that a BMI of 25 is the ideal number.

I am due to see the liver doc today and the bowel doc in 2 weeks time. I
have some questions for both docs particularly regarding weight loss.
Signature


Cheers . . . JC

Ozgirl - 05 May 2008 23:42 GMT
>>>Hi,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> What do you suppose it is in the porridge that raises the BS levels?

Um carbs and you had apple carbs with it. All at a carb sensitive time of
the day Did you alos have milk with the porridge?

Are you allowed fats at the moment? If so, fats are a good way to add
calories without carbs. Use more oils for salads and cooking, nuts, avocados
etc. Full fat dairy if your bg can handle dairy foods like milk etc

> The weight loss is a problem - I am now 10Kg below the recommended
> weight if we can trust that a BMI of 25 is the ideal number.
>
> I am due to see the liver doc today and the bowel doc in 2 weeks time. I
> have some questions for both docs particularly regarding weight loss.
Alan S - 06 May 2008 01:35 GMT
>>>Hi,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
>What do you suppose it is in the porridge that raises the BS levels?

Oatmeal and apple are both high in carbohydrates. So is milk
if you added it. Read Jennifer's Advice again.

>The weight loss is a problem - I am now 10Kg below the recommended
>weight if we can trust that a BMI of 25 is the ideal number.

There are lots of foods out there that are lower in carbs
and also carby foods with lower GLs.

In your position I would be increasing healthy fats, protein
and those carbs and veges that don't spike you. Of course,
if your operation and condition has other dietary
restrictions you'd better discuss those with a doctor or
dietician.

But don't be in a hurry to gain weight. After surgery, any
changes like that should be gradual. Don't stress about it.

>I am due to see the liver doc today and the bowel doc in 2 weeks time. I
>have some questions for both docs particularly regarding weight loss.

Best wishes,

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile?
and Cambodia
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html
bj - 06 May 2008 02:33 GMT
> The weight loss is a problem - I am now 10Kg below the recommended
> weight if we can trust that a BMI of 25 is the ideal number.

AIUI 25 is the upper *limit* of normal, not "ideal".
My BMI is a tad < 20 and none of my doctors is worried.

After my diabetes diagnosis & consequent change of lifestyle ("scared
straight"), I lost weight at a decreasing rate over several months. At least
a couple of times my internist asked me "how much more weight are you
planning to lose?" My answer was "I plan to just keep doing what I'm doing &
let it "settle" naturally where it will." It settled at the weight I was
when I was 20 & other than a few 3-5lb ups & downs (mostly due to thyroid
cancer/treatment/meds adjustment, but once or twice due to...slacking off
exercise during illness but not giving up the treats I'm used to :-) but at
least I did get back on track after a bit....) I've been in the same 2-3lb
range for 9 years. (but since I'm not as "lean" as I was at 20, I'm bigger
around at the same weight <sigh>)

You have entirely different weight control issues, different illnesses & so
on, but you might want to ask your doctors about what they think about your
current weight, your (continuing?) loss, & where a "good range" for *you*
might be. You might also find a dietician helpful in figuring out the
conflicts in meeting the needs of all your conditions.
Best wishes.
bj
Julie Bove - 05 May 2008 02:01 GMT
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> the liver.    How long will the liver take to recover enough to return
> to my normal range of readings?

Sorry.  Don't have an answer for you.
Johnnie McCoy - 06 May 2008 02:45 GMT
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> the liver.    How long will the liver take to recover enough to return
> to my normal range of readings?
(... hehe) - sounds kinda like a joke: "I just had somebody cut me open and
slice out 2 thirds of my liver, but what really worries me is my sugar is a
little high." -:)

John
P.S. Your attitude sounds pretty positive and the replies here seem
encouraging... that's cool, huh? Good luck.
 
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