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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2008

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Alan S - 03 May 2008 23:50 GMT
Another in my occasional series of posts from the past.

This one, part of a thread started by Jenny (this Jenny:
http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/) in 2004, is a post by
Annette which indirectly gives a history of type 2
treatment, and mistreatment, in my country.

I found the whole thread interesting re-reading, but this
post by Annette was special.

Annette provided some wonderful advice when I first joined
asd and mhd; unfortunately her other health problems
gradually worsened and she left to minimise stress and to
concentrate on other things.

There are a few past posters I occasionally re-read here.
Annette, Jenny and OldAl are at the top of the list.

The whole thread is worth reading, this is the specific
post: http://tinyurl.com/5koee3

'"Jenny" <lottadataca...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:40427413$0$3097$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...

> Folks,

> I'm looking for some hard data about how the test result numbers used for
> diagnosing diabetes have changed between 1970 and today.

> What was the standard for diagnosing diabetes back when the only home test
> was a urine dip?  Did they do fasting blood glucose tests back then? If so
> what would be the number that then indicated the diabetic range?

> Also, when did the HbA1c test start coming into use? I had one in 1986.
> But unfortunately, though I was told I was normal, no one told me what the
> number was.  Same thing with my gestational diabetes number. They told me
> I had it, but never told me what the numbers were.

> I'm very curious to see to what extent the numbers have moved down over
> time.   I have watched the cut off for Impaired Glucose Tolerance per the
> FBG come down a couple times in the past 6 years. Has the Diabetes number
> changed too? GTT numbers?

> Any help would be appreciated!

> -- Jenny  - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
> hba1c 5.2.
> Cut the carbs to respond to my  email address!

Hi there Jenny,

I bet there's a web site somewhere that has the history you
are seeking. I don't have any idea where to find it though.
Perhaps someone like Old AL or Guy might know, I kind of
remember the history of diabetes being discussed here some
time ago.

So although I have had diabetes for about 30 yrs, I can only
offer my own experience and memories from those early days.
I did have an A1c done in the mid- 70's, I was told it was
"around" 8.0%, and that I was Pre-diabetic!  Told to lose
weight, and that he would keep an eye on it.  Within a year
or so when he tested me again, it was up to 11.0%, I was
then officially diabetic, and sent to see a diabetic
counsellor and a dietician.  I don't really know what the dx
bench mark was back then. Possibly 10%, but just guessing.
Obviously somewhere between 8% and 11%. No-one ever told me.

The counsellor got me to buy one of the early meters, about
as big as a shoe box, with strips and a complicated
procedure involving lots of buttons to push, putting blood
on the strip and waiting a defined time (in seconds),
wiping the blood off and more timing, and of course various
buttons to press at each stage.  A seconds delay or a button
missed or out of order, and I had to start all over again!
At least the lance was "modern" and was a spring loaded
device not that dissimilar to those used today, but it sure
hurt a lot more!  The meter was the latest model too, and
DID give a read-out, but usually one only compared the
colour of the strip to the chart to get a general idea of
how ones bg was doing.

The counsellor was very nice, and showed me how to only
lance the sides of my finger tips etc., and gave me lots of
advice and pamphlets and books about diabetes. She told me
the target was to achieve PP readings under 10.0mmol/L
(180).  I have one of the books still, and it isn't bad,
even by today's standards. The main difference is that I now
know what they are talking about.  LOL The dietician gave me
lists of food serves, and some daily recommended meal
guides.  It wasn't a bad guide, a lot lower in carbs than
those of today.

Many doctors did not trust the new machines, one doctor had
some kind of antiquated machine, a huge device, and also
ATTACKED the PAD of my thumb with a real lance like a small
spear, it bled like mad, and took a couple of weeks to heal!
He seemed to need about a cup of blood!

I did my best to follow the dieticians advice, although I
never really got the hang of "serves", I did manage to lower
my bg to the recommended levels, ie, no random reading over
10.0  (180). I was to test about twice a day, before a meal
and 2hrs later, testing different meals on different days.
Once I achieved that, I was told I would only need to see
her or the counsellor about once a year for a check up.  I
have no idea what my A1c was during this period.

That's how things remained until the mid-80's, when I moved
to Canberra, our country's capital, and the most up-to-date
city for diabetes in Australia.

My new doctor immediately sent me off to see an endo, a new
dietician, and a new counsellor.  I don't know what my A1c
was, he never told me, and I don't know if the dx level had
changed by then. This new counsellor got me to purchase a
newer machine and strips, enrolled me in Diabetes Australia,
had me join a support group and the National Diabetes Supply
Scheme, which allowed me to buy all my supplies at a cheaper
rate.  Diabetes Australia was fairly new, very active in
lobbying the Govt for help for diabetics, and in helping all
those with diabetes generally. I did learn a bit more about
diabetes, but not all that much actually.  Since everyone
seemed quite dismissive of T2, as if it was a minor problem,
that's how I saw it also.  I kept my carb intake moderate,
and seemed to be OK, apart from a steady weight gain.

The endo I saw once a year would test my blood and urine,
check the pulse in my feet, and that was that!  The
dieticians and support group were very strong on
elimintating all saturated fats from the diet, and
substituting soy oil instead, both liquid for frying etc,
and in margarines. The stuff gave me diarrhoea, so I never
did adopt that new approach.  I got bored with the groups
etc, and stopped going.  I tested less and less, and finally
stopped  testing altogether.

I did finally see an opthalmologist twice in the 7 yrs I was
there, at my own expense (and darn expensive it was too!)
and was told all was fine. My complaints of a "blind spot"
were dismissed.  Years later (2yrs ago) I found out that I
actually had suffered a bleed, and had lost the use of a
portion of the retina.  I have the scar to prove it.  Oh
well.

So it all went on for a long time, till recently (about 6
yrs ago), when my health started deteriorating markedly.  I
bought a brand new meter, and discovered my bg was peaking
in the 20's (over 360).  I saw a doctor who did NOT believe
me, or trust the new meter.  A urine test revealed that I
was spilling sugars though, so she ordered an A1c, which
came back at 16%.

I was initially prescribed metformin, which although it
brought my bg down a bit, made me extremely ill at the
lowest dosage. I persisted for 9 weeks, till I started
passing blood. Even the doc agreed it was time to quit it.
So then I was prescribed a sulph. which worked to some
extent, but I still had an A1c over 11%, at the highest
dose. I do not have that lab report. One done a few months
later shows the desirable range to be under 6%.  I was very
ill, depressed, badly overweight, (obese), and prepared to
deteriorate until I finally died.  I was never actually
"told" what the desirable levels were at this time. I got
the reports at a later time, on request.

New story!!!!!!

I joined asd!!!!!!!

Here I am, A1c under 6%, no meds at all, and relatively
well, (considering some other health problems), feeling
better than I have for years, and being obstropulous to all
those who don't think it can be done! LOL   I've learned
more about diabetes in the short time I've been here than I
did in the previous 24 yrs, and am still learning.  I
assertively ASK for referral to specialists for tests etc,
and no longer rely totally on "experts" as I did in the past
- they are there to help and advise me, not just to be
blindly obeyed or totally trusted in all things. I had never
even heard of the IGT test till I came to asd.  I have not
met anyone in Australia who has even had one done! Yet it
is, apparently, the definitive test for dx according to
the official standards.

Although the lab reports show a desirable A1c as being under
5.5%, (and that's hard to achieve at best), most doctors
still regard any result under 7% as "good control".  Since
the early days with the nurse/counsellors, no-one I've seen
since has shown the slightest interest in my record of bg
readings.  Every GP I have ever seen relies totally on the
A1c results.

Having had a few run-ins with dieticians promoting the
high-carb, low-fat diet, I refuse to even see one of those
now.  I suspect the diet recommended in the early days has
held me in good stead to a considerable degree, for quite
some time, till the gradual deterioration of my beta cells
created the need for more stringent control with diet.

All this is probably far more than you needed to know, but I
hope the info and my history is of some help in your study.

Annette'

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile?
and Cambodia
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html
W. Baker - 04 May 2008 01:41 GMT
In alt.support.diabetes Alan S <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
: Another in my occasional series of posts from the past.

: This one, part of a thread started by Jenny (this Jenny:
: http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/) in 2004, is a post by
: Annette which indirectly gives a history of type 2
: treatment, and mistreatment, in my country.

: I found the whole thread interesting re-reading, but this
: post by Annette was special.

: Annette provided some wonderful advice when I first joined
: asd and mhd; unfortunately her other health problems
: gradually worsened and she left to minimise stress and to
: concentrate on other things.

: There are a few past posters I occasionally re-read here.
: Annette, Jenny and OldAl are at the top of the list.

: The whole thread is worth reading, this is the specific
: post: http://tinyurl.com/5koee3

: '"Jenny" <lottadataca...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

: news:40427413$0$3097$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...

: > Folks,

: > I'm looking for some hard data about how the test result numbers used for
: > diagnosing diabetes have changed between 1970 and today.

: > What was the standard for diagnosing diabetes back when the only home test
: > was a urine dip?  Did they do fasting blood glucose tests back then? If so
: > what would be the number that then indicated the diabetic range?

: > Also, when did the HbA1c test start coming into use? I had one in 1986.
: > But unfortunately, though I was told I was normal, no one told me what the
: > number was.  Same thing with my gestational diabetes number. They told me
: > I had it, but never told me what the numbers were.

: > I'm very curious to see to what extent the numbers have moved down over
: > time.   I have watched the cut off for Impaired Glucose Tolerance per the
: > FBG come down a couple times in the past 6 years. Has the Diabetes number
: > changed too? GTT numbers?

: > Any help would be appreciated!

: > -- Jenny  - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
: > hba1c 5.2.
: > Cut the carbs to respond to my  email address!

: Hi there Jenny,

: I bet there's a web site somewhere that has the history you
: are seeking. I don't have any idea where to find it though.
: Perhaps someone like Old AL or Guy might know, I kind of
: remember the history of diabetes being discussed here some
: time ago.

: So although I have had diabetes for about 30 yrs, I can only
: offer my own experience and memories from those early days.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
: bench mark was back then. Possibly 10%, but just guessing.
: Obviously somewhere between 8% and 11%. No-one ever told me.

: The counsellor got me to buy one of the early meters, about
: as big as a shoe box, with strips and a complicated
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
: colour of the strip to the chart to get a general idea of
: how ones bg was doing.

: The counsellor was very nice, and showed me how to only
: lance the sides of my finger tips etc., and gave me lots of
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
: guides.  It wasn't a bad guide, a lot lower in carbs than
: those of today.

: Many doctors did not trust the new machines, one doctor had
: some kind of antiquated machine, a huge device, and also
: ATTACKED the PAD of my thumb with a real lance like a small
: spear, it bled like mad, and took a couple of weeks to heal!
: He seemed to need about a cup of blood!

: I did my best to follow the dieticians advice, although I
: never really got the hang of "serves", I did manage to lower
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
: her or the counsellor about once a year for a check up.  I
: have no idea what my A1c was during this period.

: That's how things remained until the mid-80's, when I moved
: to Canberra, our country's capital, and the most up-to-date
: city for diabetes in Australia.

: My new doctor immediately sent me off to see an endo, a new
: dietician, and a new counsellor.  I don't know what my A1c
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
: that's how I saw it also.  I kept my carb intake moderate,
: and seemed to be OK, apart from a steady weight gain.

: The endo I saw once a year would test my blood and urine,
: check the pulse in my feet, and that was that!  The
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
: etc, and stopped going.  I tested less and less, and finally
: stopped  testing altogether.

: I did finally see an opthalmologist twice in the 7 yrs I was
: there, at my own expense (and darn expensive it was too!)
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
: portion of the retina.  I have the scar to prove it.  Oh
: well.

: So it all went on for a long time, till recently (about 6
: yrs ago), when my health started deteriorating markedly.  I
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
: was spilling sugars though, so she ordered an A1c, which
: came back at 16%.

: I was initially prescribed metformin, which although it
: brought my bg down a bit, made me extremely ill at the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
: "told" what the desirable levels were at this time. I got
: the reports at a later time, on request.

: New story!!!!!!

: I joined asd!!!!!!!

: Here I am, A1c under 6%, no meds at all, and relatively
: well, (considering some other health problems), feeling
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
: is, apparently, the definitive test for dx according to
: the official standards.

: Although the lab reports show a desirable A1c as being under
: 5.5%, (and that's hard to achieve at best), most doctors
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
: readings.  Every GP I have ever seen relies totally on the
: A1c results.

: Having had a few run-ins with dieticians promoting the
: high-carb, low-fat diet, I refuse to even see one of those
: now.  I suspect the diet recommended in the early days has
: held me in good stead to a considerable degree, for quite
: some time, till the gradual deterioration of my beta cells
: created the need for more stringent control with diet.

: All this is probably far more than you needed to know, but I
: hope the info and my history is of some help in your study.

: Annette'

: Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.

Alan,

thanks for reposting annete's story.  It resembles tht of man of us from
earlier days.  I am not as long time a diabetic as anette, being now about
22 years since diagnosis.  I also, knew very little of my est numbers
froem doctor's visits, although I did test with Chemstrips, which didn't
repuire a machine, but had you compare your strip with a scale to
detirmine your approximate bg.  I worked with a dietician and lost about
60-65 lbs which have stayed off and I have added about 10-15(before the
holiday) to that loss.  As to the A1c, I remember reading about it in "
Diabetes Forecast, the ADA magazine in the early yers after my diagnosis,
as it sseems to have been presented as a test tht would let the doctor
knoww how well you were sticking to your diabetic plan ad the number of
the newfangled test was an  average of eh last 3 months.  the enphasis
being on someone else controlling and monitoring you, not you, yourself.  

I also learned how to control my bgs from reading the group which I
stumbled onto sometime in the lateish 1990's, whe I decided to take
control of my diabetes adn sarted attending the diabetes clinic at Mt
Sinai Hospital in NYC, where I first hooked up to my current endo.  It ws
a great program with all kinds of services available, but coul dnot
succeed on the small payments for preventative care the insurance
companies were willing to pay.  That was where I was first introdued to
the idea of exercising as important, etc.  I started ther not long before
I had the loss of focus in  my left eye, so it was over 10 years ago,
perhaps closer to 12 years by now.  

Wendy
 
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