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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2008New diagnosis = many questions
I have read the group for a couple of days Here are my questions I was diagnosed because of frequent dizzy spells which turned out to be >>> Hypoglycemic episodes I am in a family with a couple of diabetics cousins Type 1 and a few older relatives with type 2 Here is my question I am skinny -- took much convincing to show that while I weigh about 100 I do eat 3000-4000 calories a day -- hate food logs I NEVER knew how much I eat until I had to journal yuk I dance ballet, jazz or tap 3-4 hours a day plus am an active college student I think I eat right lots of veggies meat with 1 or 2 meals a day and lots of water no sodas I have PAGES of information What should I do first the diet expert lady keeps acting like I don't eat and so al she talks about is the need to eat -- I may video meals so she can see I am NOT anorexic If I have diabetes Type 2 why is my level low? In the morning I have 120 to 145 before breakfast. After I eat the 1 hour is usually 105 to 110 at 2 hours things get wierd could be 180 could be 55 Should I eat a higher or lower percentage of carbs? is more protien the answer? When do your finger tips start hurting like mad from testing Have any of you ever cried just because you have to test ONE MORE time before bed? I am not usually so needy but this is major weird stuff My parents are more freaked out then I am so they are no help and my family doc says there is no way I have this problem because I am skinny active and young HELP Lisa > I have read the group for a couple of days > Here are my questions > > I was diagnosed because of frequent dizzy spells which turned out to > be >>> Hypoglycemic episodes This would suggest that you are insulin resistant because of visceral adipose tissue (VAT), which can be colorfully described as black fat: http://HeartMDPhD.com/BlackFat > I am in a family with a couple of diabetics cousins Type 1 and a few > older relatives with type 2 > > Here is my question > > I am skinny Small petite frame people with black fat often have skinny arms and legs while having a small pot belly (VAT) that is barely noticeable. > -- took much convincing to show that while I weigh about > 100 I do eat 3000-4000 calories a day It is when we are overeating that we accumulate black fat. Therefore, it remains much smarter to eat less, down to the right amount: http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeSmart For small frame people, this paradoxically results in weight gain because the black fat has been causing muscle atrophy and when the black fat is gone, muscle regain their strength with increased mass. <>< http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Counsels > I have read the group for a couple of days Here are my questions > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Lisa I'm certainly no doc and no expert, but it seems to me that if you eat that much and weigh that little there must be some other things wrong as well. Have you had a full physical recently? > > I have read the group for a couple of days Here are my questions > > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > that much and weigh that little there must be some other things wrong as > well. Have you had a full physical recently? I think it's well explained when she said: > > I dance ballet, jazz or tap 3-4 hours a day plus am an active college > > student Priscilla > > I have read the group for a couple of days Here are my questions > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > that much and weigh that little there must be some other things wrong as > well. Have you had a full physical recently? full physical -- don't think the med school has any tests I haven't had in the last few weeks Dance major -- the calories I logged are probably a little less than normal the weirdness has kept me from going 100% most days I get about 4 - 4 1/2 hours physical workout some days -- no school even more climbing or skiing sorry my first post was very scattered I knew if I started editing I'd never post Lisa >I have read the group for a couple of days > Here are my questions [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > eat and so al she talks about is the need to eat -- I may video meals > so she can see I am NOT anorexic Gee, you are describing how I used be. I hated being accused of being anorexic when I was eating like a pig and trying to gain just a pound or two. > If I have diabetes Type 2 why is my level low? Level of what? Why are you getting hypos? Because type 2 often starts out as reactive hypoglycemia. > In the morning I have 120 to 145 before breakfast. Could be a bit lower. > After I eat the 1 hour is usually 105 to 110 at 2 hours things get > wierd could be 180 could be 55 Interesting. > Should I eat a higher or lower percentage of carbs? Probably lower, but what are you eating now? > is more protien the answer? Not necessarily. > When do your finger tips start hurting like mad from testing? Mine never did. > Have any of you ever cried just because you have to test ONE MORE time > before bed? I don't think so. > I am not usually so needy but this is major weird stuff My parents > are more freaked out then I am so they are no help and my family doc > says there is no way I have this problem because I am skinny active > and young > > HELP I am guessing that you might not really have type 2 if you are thin. But there are some thin type 2's. Have you seen an Endocrinologist? If not, you should. Hi Lisa, Here is why you get low BGs when you're Type 2: When a person eats something carby, a non-diabetic's body takes care of the sugar load immediately, so there is no rise in BG. In Type 2s, the body does not take care of the carb load, (no 1st phase insulin) so the blood sugar starts rising. Finally, the body gets it in gear to tackle the high BG, and puts out extra insulin, which slams the BG into the low territory, and makes you feel like crap. In answer to what you should eat, I would avoid foods likely to cause hypos, which probably include foods made with white flour--breads, pasta, pastries--rice, fruit juice (has as much sugar as a soda), and potatoes. However, everyone is different, so you need to test each meal and snack at 1 and 2 hours to see exactly what's happening with your BG, then reduce or eliminate any foods that spike you. Check this out: http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/newlydiagnosed.htm It gives detailed instructions on how to figure out which foods are right for you. Your diet sounds fairly reasonable, but you may be eating something that you *think* is all right, but is still spiking your BG. For example, a lot of dieticians recommend brown rice over white rice. For some people this works, but for me, I still get a BG spike when I eat brown rice. It's also best to eat about 6 times a day--3 small meal and 3 snacks. This lessens the load on your pancreas. Hopefully, Alan will come along and give you information about painless BG testing. If he doesn't see this post, ping him. Your family doc is wrong. With fasting numbers like you're getting you're diabetic--unless you're taking a steroid that's elevating your numbers. It's a myth that all Type 2s are fat. I'm not either. Hang in there, Lisa. You'll get the hang of this. It's not the end of the world. And don't hesitate to ask questions and/or vent. That's what we're here for.  SignatureBest regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise BMI 21.5 >I have read the group for a couple of days > Here are my questions [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Lisa >What should I do first the diet expert lady keeps acting like I don't >eat and so al she talks about is the need to eat -- I may video meals >so she can see I am NOT anorexic The problem with dieticians is that every person's diabetes is different - and they go by averages. You don't sound average. >In the morning I have 120 to 145 before breakfast. That's a bit high. Is it higher than your bedtime reading? Do you exercise before breakfast? >After I eat the 1 hour is usually 105 to 110 at 2 hours things get >wierd could be 180 could be 55 The 1-hour sounds good. The 2-hour sounds like you're going too high, then crashing - that's the Reactive Hypoglycemia. Is a PITA - we have a few people who've controlled it; Jan (Ozgirl), Trinkwasser, or one of the others will be along in a bit. There are diet tricks that are worth trying. >When do your finger tips start hurting like mad from testing If they hurt, you're doing it in the wrong place. If you're doing it on the pads, try the side - or vice versa! Rotate around all 10, give 'em a chance to recover. >I am not usually so needy but this is major weird stuff My parents >are more freaked out then I am so they are no help and my family doc >says there is no way I have this problem because I am skinny active >and young Don't worry about being needy! We all know what diagnosis feels like, and it's freaked all of us out. There will be light at the end of the tunnel... Your family doc might be out of his depth, because you sound atypical. Can you get to an endocrinologist? Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >I have read the group for a couple of days >Here are my questions Hopefully you've seen this then http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm Some other interesting stuff http://www.sequin.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Downloads/openlet.htm http://www.bloodsugar101.com/ http://www.dsolve.com/ http://www.medscape.com/viewprogram/145 (Medscape is well worth signing up to as long as you check who sponsors their CME papers, some are excellent updates of current leading-edge opinion, others are thinly disguised advertising flyers) >I was diagnosed because of frequent dizzy spells which turned out to >be >>> Hypoglycemic episodes [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >says there is no way I have this problem because I am skinny active >and young Check out Jenny's site above. she has some information on MODY. It may not be that though, in my family there appears to be an insulin resistance syndrome negatively associated with overweight, I'm skinny and quite fit and on the borderline between diabetes proper, impaired glucose tolerance and reactive hypoglycemia (RH is often a kind of precursor to Type 2 where you can still generate plenty of insulin but the timing is all wrong, there are not a few of us here) In retrospect I've had blood glucose problems all my life which have only slowly gotten worse. One of my cousins is even fitter and more active and has started to get similar symptoms on his sixties. One of his daughters is getting more severe symptoms in her thirties - and she's an actual *athlete*. The full diabetics in the family are usually poorly controlled which is why I'm trying to get a handle on this NOW. I went through the same crap with doctors writing me off as "neurotic" "hypochondriac" etc. and only by testing my BG after meals did I get a handle on what was actually occurring, and by using the tests to determine what not to eat (which was principally Healthy Whole Grains) I have beaten my BG into normal levels most but not all of the time. What is your blood pressure like? Again like the BG you can buy your own meter and the advantage is it doesn't take expensive test strips, only occasional cheap batteries. Also you need to get your lipids checked, the classic sign is high LDL cholesterol, low HDL and sky high triglycerides. With your family history there's undoubtedly some risk factor. My specific numbers are a maximum of 15g carbs at breakfast, 30g (50g on occasion) in the evening, 15g again at night and somewhere between 60 - 100g over the whole day. With your level of exercise you may be able to manage more, and the ratio through your day may differ. Stick with it, hopefully you're not yet too damaged and once you can detect a pattern from your testing and actually learn how to improve your numbers you can probably cut back on the testing when things become more predictable. My first question, how on earth do you fit 3-4000 calories into 1-2 meals?? Ok, you don't keep a food log but how about just writing in here what you ate yesterday, from rising to bed. To keep bg's stable you need to eat more often and less. I eat 8-9 times a day with lunch and dinner being the "biggest" even though lunch is usually plain animal protein and salad and dinner is animal protein and low starch vegetables. >I have read the group for a couple of days > Here are my questions [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Lisa WOW thanks for the information!!! Sorry to kick things off in the middle of my PITY PARTY but thanks for all your understanding comments A few things to clarify so many posts I try to just answer all here I am seeing an endocrinoloist (sp?) and next week another endo for more tests I guess my family internist is the only doc who doubts I am having glucose level problems I eat 4 to 6 times a day but usually only eat meat once or twice -- I can't imagine eating all that in 1 or 2 meals either. The last 2 weeks I had to keep a food log for the PA who does the nurition counseling and also to let the doc know I DO EAT FOOD before bed my range is 85 to 100 most of the time and bed is usually 3 hours or more after last meal. Probably I eat a few more calories when I am not doing the dizzy queasy thing but I burn them off withh dance, intramurals and rock climbing, skiing As for the fat thing I am 5' 9" just went to the gym I weighed 102 pounds and as egotistical as this sounds there is no extra fat -- muscle yes I work to keep my body fat high enough so I don't miss periods but there is no fat in my midsection Doc told me I am a rare truely skinny person with diabetes issues. As far as they can tell my other systems are fine thyroid, cardio echo, eeg, ekg and vaious scans and such --- no tumors, no infections all my other lab tests are great to normal at the gym I checked my BP before swimming 110/70, pulse resting was 45 to 55 I am not good at the whole "rest" thing The HDL / LDL and ratio stuff was very good doc envies my numbers -- I will get them when I am in next time I am rotating fingers now -- I hate needles and the first 3-4 days it took a couple of sticks to get blood -- like I said sorry for the pity post:) I have never been sick other than one or two colds and even then 3 days and back to normal. Always thought I had won the genetics lottery Strong bones, muscles, parents who love me win, lose, or draw and good teachers who taught me how to take care of my body -- my favorite teachers rule #1 "Every day your body needs you to feed it, rest it, stretch it, work it, rest it then repeat daily for 70 or 80 years" I have discovered some foods that make the up down rollercoaster really go -- rice all kinds :( bread other than a oat, flaxseed, nut muffin --my favorite so that is good! Fruits are a real puzzle cherries, plums and pears are no problem but apples, bananas and grapes are way up way down. trying to mix up meals cheese with fruit, vegies with meat or dairy, etc. I feel like I am a science fair project I thank you all for your posts and I know to make sure advice suggestion from "strangers" needs to be checked with real people. I am so thankful you are all ready to share your life with diabetes with one of those who never thought it could happen to "me" Lisa >The last 2 weeks I had to keep a food log for the PA who does the >nurition counseling and also to let the doc know I DO EAT FOOD It may help others comment if you post a day's log. Preferably pick a day when you did some BG tests so we can relate those to the menu timing. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile? and Cambodia http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html On Fri, 2 May 2008 20:25:51 -0700 (PDT), in <1000f2ee-ed1e-4755-a602-2122f5620f95@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Dancing Hypo <lisalennic@gmail.com> wrote: >As for the fat thing I am 5' 9" just went to the gym I weighed 102 >pounds How often do you weigh yourself? >and as egotistical as this sounds there is no extra fat -- >muscle yes I work to keep my body fat high enough so I don't miss >periods You feel like you have to work to maintain enough body fat to have periods? Have you had any period of time in the past where you stopped having periods? >As far as they can tell my other systems are fine thyroid, Sorry I asked you about your thyroid before I saw that it was included here. >I have discovered some foods that make the up down rollercoaster >really go -- rice all kinds :( bread other than a oat, flaxseed, nut [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >vegies with meat or dairy, etc. I feel like I am a science fair >project So, in addition to having roller coaster BGs, you are also having roller coaster symptoms like nausea? What other symptoms go along with it? What do you mean about nut muffins being your favorite & that it is a roller coaster food for you? But, if you really are a T2, then, it would be what many of us have experienced in that different foods cause us to spike or not spike & that that is very individualized. And, that is a pain! LOL Because then there's no possible 'list' of spike foods and non-spike foods! Signature: ^> DonnaB Yahoo Msgr: shallotpeel <*> http://tinyurl.co.uk/h193 http://tinyurl.co.uk/wdp8 http://tinyurl.co.uk/byv9 "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence > >I have discovered some foods that make the up down rollercoaster > >really go -- rice all kinds :( bread other than a oat, flaxseed, nut [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > What do you mean about nut muffins being your favorite & that it is a roller > coaster food for you? I think she said that bread *other* than said muffin is a roller coaster food (i.e. sends her up and then down). Priscilla On Sat, 03 May 2008 11:32:44 -0400, in <vze23t8n-11E8D3.11324403052008@individual.net> Priscilla Ballou <vze23t8n@verizon.net> wrote: >> >I have discovered some foods that make the up down rollercoaster >> >really go -- rice all kinds :( bread other than a oat, flaxseed, nut [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >I think she said that bread *other* than said muffin is a roller coaster >food (i.e. sends her up and then down). Gotcha! Thanks. I just couldn't parse it, whether it was this way or that way. SignatureDonnaB shallotpeel : ^> USA <*> new WIN Vista user 06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 HbA1c 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg Current ................... HbA1c 6.3 "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." - Andre Gide > On Fri, 2 May 2008 20:25:51 -0700 (PDT), in > <1000f2ee-ed1e-4755-a602-2122f5620...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Dancing [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > How often do you weigh yourself? someone asked about weight and since I was near a scale at the gym I weighed other than doctor's office I can't remember the last time I weighed myself > You feel like you have to work to maintain enough body fat to have periods? > Have you had any period of time in the past where you stopped having periods? As a dancer one of the downsides can be letting body fat get so low menstral cycles and other hormones go nuts I have always had regular -- like 28 to 29 day cycles like my hormones have ocd :) Both family doc --BTW I got an email from him today appologising he spent the last week reading and consulting with endos etc and now agrees with my diagnosis. His email was very nice -- I've known him my whole life and he thanked me for making him get up to date I think he has a few paitients who are getting calls this week to come in for some followups So my diabetes has caused one doc to learn more --YEAH TEAM OOH RAHH my doc and most of my post puberty dance teachers were big on eating well fuling the body and not letting me over exercise or under eat Funny until this I had never thought about how much the teachers focused on health. When I was having the hypos I felt queasy In the last week I have only had one time tested was at 72 ate a coupe of ounces of walnuts I keep The oat/ flax/ nut muffin is my friend I can eat a muffin with yoghurt or cheese and drink milk and the BG level is great 106 to 110 at 1 hour and 90 to 98 at 2 hours I left my food jouirnal with the PA nutritionist but I'll post a day when I get it back tuesday for now I test right before breakfast 1 hour after and 1.5 to 2 hours before I have a snack hae added nuts and cheese to what used to be a couple of pieces of fruit Some one mentioned peanut butter I am going to try that with bananas to see if I can keep my bananas I am about the a half a banana and a couple of tblspoons of peanut butter right now I am at 94 we will see what happens Adding protein to all tiems I eat does seem to make things stay move even Thanks for all the info form everyone Lisa > WOW thanks for the information!!! > > Sorry to kick things off in the middle of my PITY PARTY but thanks for > all your understanding comments [ . . . ] > I am so thankful you are all ready to share your life with diabetes > with one of those who never thought it could happen to "me" You've got a great attitude, Lisa, despite you understandable pity party. Just think of it a class 6 pitch, not an overhanging sand dune. ;-) SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ > > WOW thanks for the information!!! > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not > forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ My climbing is mostly walls and nice easy places always not the first one up I let the crazy folks go first <G> can't do the really hard stuff I am afraid of heights climbing is like a self powered adventure ride besides once you get to the top the view is great! I don't like the rockies for skiing for the same reason love the view from the lift the admission cost is making it down the mountain :) I am getting used to my meter as a safety line -- how people did this without meters or if they can only test a few times a day is beyond me. Right now I am testing as many as 20 times a day until I findout what dfferent foods do to / for my The lady at walmart keeps telling me it is nice of me to pick up my mother's strips I have stopped trying to correct her. After a few months she may figure it out My grandpa is a Marine -- not currently on active duty early lesson there is no such thing as a retired Marine Thanks for your help Lisa > me. > > Right now I am testing as many as 20 times a day until I findout what > dfferent foods do to / for my Hi Lisa, Once you get it all figured out, you'll be able to reduce the number of times you test significantly. This phase where you're learning which foods do what is so crucial. You should give yourself a big pat on the back for meeting it head-on. Good job! SignatureBest regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise BMI 21.5 >Right now I am testing as many as 20 times a day until I findout what >dfferent foods do to / for my You probably don't need to test quite that often. Review the tests you've been doing, related to your food, to see if you can see when you are peaking after meals. It varies for all of us but it is likely to be approximately one hour after you finish the meal or snack. Once you've discovered that timing, you can concentrate on that. I only bother checking further if that test is unexpectedly different from my expectations. Read these again, they may also help you structure your testing more systematically: http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm and http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/10/test-review-adjust.html Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile? and Cambodia http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html > > > WOW thanks for the information!!! > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > > > Just think of it a class 6 pitch, not an overhanging sand dune. ;-) > My climbing is mostly walls and nice easy places always not the first > one up I let the crazy folks go first <G> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > reason love the view from the lift the admission cost is making it > down the mountain :) I started rock climbing in the Shawangunks, near New Paltz, NY, on Class 3's. Worked my way up to 5's. I've fallen off some of the best climbs in the country! Climbing partner always snubbed me up. "On belay?" "Yes." "Climbing" "Climb." The joke would be "Falling." "Fall!" (Fondly remembering the 50's and 60's) > I am getting used to my meter as a safety line -- how people did this > without meters or if they can only test a few times a day is beyond [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > mother's strips I have stopped trying to correct her. After a few > months she may figure it out > My grandpa is a Marine -- not currently on active duty early lesson > there is no such thing as a retired Marine There are Retired Marines, Lisa. There are no EX Marines. I salute your Grandfather. TEN-HUT! SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >I am seeing an endocrinoloist (sp?) and next week another endo for >more tests I guess Excellent. >before bed my range is 85 to 100 most of the time and bed is usually 3 >hours or more after last meal. Right, so if you're getting higher readings before breakfast, you're getting something called Dawn Phenomenon - your liver thinks you're going too low overnight, and is "helpfully" making a bunch of glucose to see you right. A bedtime snack of something a little carby, fatty and protein-rich might help - the classic is some PB on a couple of crackers. If you're old enough, a glass of wine helps too. >my favorite >teachers rule #1 "Every day your body needs you to feed it, rest it, >stretch it, work it, rest it then repeat daily for 70 or 80 years" Cool rule : ) >I feel like I am a science fair >project Yup, you are :D The prize is figuring out how to control this diabetes thing so you can get on with your life. Sounds like you're making a great start! Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > On Fri, 2 May 2008 20:25:51 -0700 (PDT), Dancing Hypo > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > D&E, 100ug thyroxine > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 Just learning about the dawn thing don't drink -- I am flakey enough without any thing extra nuts and cheese at bedtime have been making the morning hit 102 to 112 so I think it helps nurse says while I am changing how I eat my liver haas to "learn new rules" for protecting my brain from hypos Thanks for your suggestions so many folks I am amazed Lisa Hi Lisa, > WOW thanks for the information!!! > > Sorry to kick things off in the middle of my PITY PARTY but thanks for > all your understanding comments HA! You're not the only one by far whose had a pity party here. We've all been where you are now. :-) > A few things to clarify so many posts I try to just answer all here > > I am seeing an endocrinoloist (sp?) and next week another endo for > more tests I guess Good! > my family internist is the only doc who doubts I am having glucose > level problems > > I eat 4 to 6 times a day but usually only eat meat once or twice -- I > can't imagine eating all that in 1 or 2 meals either. If I were you, I'd add a smidge of protein to most meals/snacks. Why? Because 58% of protein gets converted to glucose, but it happens very slowly and will not cause a spike. Due to your level of activity you need the glucose, but not all in one shot--otherwise you get the dreaded BG rollercoaster effect. > The last 2 weeks I had to keep a food log for the PA who does the > nurition counseling and also to let the doc know I DO EAT FOOD [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > muscle yes I work to keep my body fat high enough so I don't miss > periods but there is no fat in my midsection You're one of the 4% of women naturally built like a model. Doc told me I am a rare > truely skinny person with diabetes issues. Think about Halle Berry. She is a Type 2 also. > As far as they can tell my other systems are fine thyroid, cardio > echo, eeg, ekg and vaious scans and such --- no tumors, no [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > vegies with meat or dairy, etc. I feel like I am a science fair > project Perfect description! We have all said that we are own experiment. Sounds like you're starting to figure out which foods work for you. As for the fruits, your experience is very similar to most people on ASD. Bananas and grapes are a problem for almost everyone. As for apples, I can eat half of one if I put peanut butter on it. Sometimes you don't have to eliminate a food completely, but can merely reduce the amount you eat. > I thank you all for your posts and I know to make sure advice > suggestion from "strangers" needs to be checked with real people. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Lisa Keep us posted on your progress! SignatureBest regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise BMI 21.5 >> Sorry to kick things off in the middle of my PITY PARTY but thanks for >> all your understanding comments > >HA! You're not the only one by far whose had a pity party here. We've all >been where you are now. :-) Pity party? What? Sometimes I have a comprehension problem following these conversations. Lisa. You are magnificent the way you've been handling a difficult situation, It must take a lot of courage to handle a situation where you genuinely need help from a nutritionist and you're accused overtly or covertly of being an anorexic. If you feel a tad under the weather dealing with that situation it doesn't qualify in my book as a pity party. Maybe we use the same words but speak a different language. Wake up in the morning and before you get to think about dawn phenomenon remember you're magnificent. It gets everything in the right perspective. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >WOW thanks for the information!!! > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >my family internist is the only doc who doubts I am having glucose >level problems He's not been keeping up, see a later post I'm about to make about Reactive Hypoglycemia >I eat 4 to 6 times a day but usually only eat meat once or twice -- I >can't imagine eating all that in 1 or 2 meals either. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >periods but there is no fat in my midsection Doc told me I am a rare >truely skinny person with diabetes issues. No, not rare, just rarely diagnosed IMNSHO. I've read suggestions that 10 - 20% of Types 2s are not overweight but frankly how do they know? Many doctors won't even consider Type 2 in skinny people therefore they never test them, therefore they never find it therefore their prejudice is reinforced . . . . . . similarly some authorities reckon there may be twice as many Type 1s diagnosed in adulthood rather than childhood, when doctors make *that* mistake it can be fatal. :( >As far as they can tell my other systems are fine thyroid, cardio >echo, eeg, ekg and vaious scans and such --- no tumors, no [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >took a couple of sticks to get blood -- like I said sorry for the pity >post:) Alan has a good blog entry about painless pricks >I have never been sick other than one or two colds and even then 3 >days and back to normal. Always thought I had won the genetics lottery [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >vegies with meat or dairy, etc. I feel like I am a science fair >project Yes but unlike many other diseases you have the technology to discover what works and what doesn't. I overreact to wheat worst, I can only handle oatcakes and no other form of carbs in the morning but can get away with sufficiently small quantities of other carbs later in the day including especially ryebread - but watch the size of the slices, it's very dense and may weigh more and therefore contain more carbs than you were expecting. My cousin's daughter can do ricecakes, I can't. I can do quinoa as a rice substitute, others can't. Fruits can be a bastard, all my old favourites like bananas and melons are off the table, apples only in small quantities but strawberries (and other berries) are quite doable. YMMV. I can do small quantities of dried fruit mixed with larger quantities of nuts, or oatcakes or ryebread with nut butter or real butter - the fats slow down the absorbtion of the carbs in a way I can get away with and you might - or might not. Things that generally don't affect your BG http://www.diabetic-talk.org/freeveggies.htm also meat and especially fish Quentin is our dietary expert Good stuff about GI http://www.mendosa.com/gi.htm David Mendosa's site is a good one though enormous >I thank you all for your posts and I know to make sure advice >suggestion from "strangers" needs to be checked with real people. GPs can be very much pot luck in their quality, endos generally but not neccesarily know of what they speak. >I hate needles and the first 3-4 days it >>took a couple of sticks to get blood -- like I said sorry for the pity >>post:) > >Alan has a good blog entry about painless pricks http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/10/painless-pricks.html Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile? and Cambodia http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html > WOW thanks for the information!!! Laus Deo http://HeartMDPhD.com/LausDeo > Sorry to kick things off in the middle of my PITY PARTY but thanks for > all your understanding comments [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > before bed my range is 85 to 100 most of the time and bed is usually 3 > hours or more after last meal. The 100 would be high normal. > Probably I eat a few more calories when I am not doing the dizzy > queasy thing but I burn them off withh dance, intramurals and rock > climbing, skiing > > As for the fat thing I am 5' 9" just went to the gym I weighed 102 > pounds and as egotistical as this sounds there is no extra fat -- Would suggest you ask your doctors about "latent autoimmune diabetes in adults" (LADA). Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be hungrier: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthier Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow >I have discovered some foods that make the up down rollercoaster >really go -- rice all kinds :( bread other than a oat, flaxseed, nut >muffin --my favorite so that is good! Well done. You're off to a good start finding out these things regardless of what final diagnosis you're given. G'day G'day, Count your blessings is something my mother used to say. Not sure if she said it to anyone in particular or whether is was a family saying that she passed on to me. Anyway I was thinking about that when you mentioned the way your GP stuck up for you being a genuinely skinny person who had a blood glucose issue. In general a fasting blood glucose reading of 127 mg/dL or more on two separate occasions is all it takes to be given a diabetes diagnosis. Just what form it might take is more complicated especially in your case since various aspects aren't typical. Finding a GP that appreciates the dangers associated with T2 diabetes can sometimes be an issue. For you with your level of physical activity and genuinely skinny body it could have been even harder. Not at nice I imagine to be an anorexic suspect. You can sympathize with them having to deal with the deviousness of true anorexics on a daily basis. I wouldn't fancy that as a job. I'm mentally counting my blessings in that respect. <grin> So count your blessings. One hurdle is already overcome. You have a supportive GP. Others are that you've been tested for other conditions such as thyroid malfunctions that can be easily mistaken for T2 diabetes. You aren't by any chance on prednisone or some other steroid for an injury sustained while rock climbing or doing ballet. These steroids can give high blood glucose readings. >Fruits are a real puzzle cherries, plums and pears are no problem >but apples, bananas and grapes are way up way down. >trying to mix up meals cheese with fruit, >vegies with meat or dairy, etc. Berries are the easiest fruit to manage. Strawberries for instance almost never spike anyone. The principle reason is they contain about 7% carb or one fifth of that found in bread. Stone fruit such as plum, peaches, nectarines, apricots have about 12% carbs and are generally easy to handle. Apples are usually OK but depend on variety and local growing conditions. Bananas are on my restricted list. Half a banana is my upper limit. Tropical fruit is often like this. The safe amount to consume at one time is often small. The most important lesson here is that you're an individual and YMMV, your mileage may vary. It doesn't matter what works for someone else. It is what works for you that counts. >I feel like I am a science fair project The most important one on this planet, no less, Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >When do your finger tips start hurting like mad from testing I see you have some very good answers to most of your medical questions, so I'll just address a few points. My fingers do not hurt from testing; even when I test often after trying new food or larger portions of foods. The reason is twofold: 1. There are there are (at the very least) 30 good places to test on your fingertips. If you are ending up with pain, try keeping track of where you test. Start with the side of your left thumb (for example), then for the next test, the same side of your index finger, and so on, for a total of ten tests. Then come back to your left thumb and test on the other side of it, going on through all ten fingers for another ten tests. Then come back to your left thumb again, and do the same thing using the pad of the finger. This will give you nearly a month of testing before you have to repeat testing on the same site. 2. Try slightly different site on the sides or pads, to see where it hurts the least. You may even find that you have more tan 30 places to test, figuring on two places on each pad or side. 3. Try different lancets. Some folks like the one that comes with the FreeStyle Freedom, for example, but I find it awkward, and think that it doesn't have a fine enough adjustment for penetration. I prefer the one that comes with the LifeScan OneTouch. I set mine to 5, and don't press hard before pressing the trigger. Only occasionally do I find it hurting, and even then, it's a one-time small pain; not a cumulative sore finger. >Have any of you ever cried just because you have to test ONE MORE time >before bed? No. I have tried to look on the bright side of this disease and of the efforts I make to control it. I have lost a lot of weight because I am eating properly (or at least much better than I previously ate), and I am doing that by making sure that I know what I can and cannot eat, both in food type and portion size. It is because of testing that I know, so I don't worry about the occasional ouch when lancing. >I am not usually so needy but this is major weird stuff My parents >are more freaked out then I am so they are no help and my family doc >says there is no way I have this problem because I am skinny active >and young One thing you will learn here is that everyone is different. The other thing you will learn is that there are a lot of great people here who will expend a lot of energy to help you figure it all out. You'll spot the trolls and twits soon enough, and the ones that aren't, are golden. You didn't ask to join this club; none of us did, but having joined, you've come to the right place. Hang in there and don't despair. SignatureLarry, T2, Saskatchewan, Canada. DX 24 Aug 07. D&E Metformin 2000mg, Ramipril, Simvastatin Dx A1c 8.1 : Latest 5.1 (4 Mar 08) >What should I do first Welcome. Browse through here: http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/10/d-day.html and here: http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm After that you might want to come back with some questions:-) You are atypical, as a slim type 2, but that is still the best suggestion I can offer. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile? and Cambodia http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html On Fri, 2 May 2008 07:06:21 -0700 (PDT), in <7f4ea6f1-0352-42fd-a1dd-04ac9b90f6a3@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> Dancing Hypo <lisalennic@gmail.com> wrote: >I dance ballet, jazz or tap 3-4 hours a day plus am an active college >student >What should I do first the diet expert lady keeps acting like I don't >eat and so al she talks about is the need to eat -- I may video meals >so she can see I am NOT anorexic You couldn't really show that you don't have an eating disorder by videotaping meals. <G> But, you may have been making a joke. >If I have diabetes Type 2 why is my level low? Have you been diagnosed as T2? >When do your finger tips start hurting like mad from testing I use a test meter that allows for alternate site testing. I don't test on my fingers. When I am tested on fingertip I have pain & soreness. >Have any of you ever cried just because you have to test ONE MORE time >before bed? No. Here's two off-the-wall questions: Has anyone ever talked to you about over-exercising? And, has your thyroid ever been tested? Hope you find some comfort & good questions to ask your docs, here. And, hey, Lisa, welcome! Signature: ^> DonnaB Yahoo Msgr: shallotpeel <*> http://tinyurl.co.uk/h193 http://tinyurl.co.uk/wdp8 http://tinyurl.co.uk/byv9 "A real leader faces the music, even when he doesn't like the tune. " - Anon >I have read the group for a couple of days > Here are my questions [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > In the morning I have 120 to 145 before breakfast. Many of us don't consider such morning levels low. Mine are usually between 80 and 100. I assume you've seen some of the more useful web sites for diabetes: http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm http://www.diabetic-talk.org/dp.htm http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ http://www.mendosa.com/ http://www.diabetic-talk.org/freeveggies.htm http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/ Remember to pay attention when your doctor tells you whether your diabetes is type 1, type 2, gestational diabetes, or one of the less common types. It may take some time for him or her to find out which type it is, though. >I am skinny -- took much convincing to show that while I weigh about >100 I do eat 3000-4000 calories a day -- hate food logs I NEVER knew >how much I eat until I had to journal yuk G'day G'day Lisa, Several posters have suggested you might have reactive hypoglycemia. I think the reason for that is that your blood glucose falls rapidly at times after a meal. That happens to some people in the period of time before they are diagnosed as T2 diabetics. At that stage they have high insulin resistance and their pancreas produces high levels of insulin in an attempt to compensate. It is rather like driving a car and not noticing your foot on the brake pedal. The car doesn't go too well so to make it go better one puts a foot on the accelerator without taking the foot of the brake pedal. It does horrible unpredictable things to the car engine and other mechanical parts. Personally I'm skeptical about that diagnosis. It would explain why you get irregular blood glucose responses and why you do much better on certain foods such as the flax meal and almond biscuits. These are good sources of vegetable protein by the way which helps stabilize blood glucose. Put simply, I'm left asking what it WONT explain. That IMHO is your lack of weight gain. People with high insulin levels tend to put on weight like there was no tomorrow. They say it happens even when they watch how much they eat carefully. Some are skeptical that it can happen like that but it makes sense. I believe them. One group that typically doesn't put on weight before diagnosis are T1 diabetics. They don't have the insulin needed to store fat. I'm not saying you are T1. Far from it. However it seems to me that you might have one of the atypical forms of T2 diabetics that I don't know much about. It seems to me that rather than having too much insulin as is the case with reactive hypoglycemics you have too little. You may have some kicking in late after a meal which is typical of T2s. Jenny Ruhl in her book Sugar 101 goes into some depth describing the less usual forms of diabetes. Perhaps you'd like to read her book so you can keep up with the play when talking to the specialists. FWIIW, I've been most impressed at the way you've taken responsibility for finding out what is happening to you. It's easy to imagine someone denying there is a problem when the experts can't immediately pin down the cause. Glad you haven't gone down that path because there is so much at stake. Keep up the good work and best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin |
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