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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2008A puzzle - diabetes not treatable with diet
Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve? He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and major hypos before he passed. Anyway, his brother, also my friend, has just been diagnosed with diabetes. Here's the puzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by diet, only medication". He is not on insulin just some tablets, which he cant remember the name of. He has to take the tablets because the diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps repeating it to me! Now, I dont know if this guy is lying as he knows he has no intention of radically changing his dietary habits (he hates salads,most vegetables and fruit - will not experiment with anything more exotic than deep fried sausages, deep fried bacon, chips (fries), etc etc.) or his consultant is aware, judging from his general health and family history that my friend has no intentions of making an effort on the dietary front. I have told him that unless he changes his diet and ups the exercise he can look at the same kind of misery his own brother went through. That diet and exercise play a huge part in keeping it under control, no matter how many tablets he takes. Can anyone work out what is going on! http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForHelen > Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve? > He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Can anyone work out what is going on! You can't get folks to eat what they dislike and as a general rule, what tastes bad to someone is bad for him/her. If you wish to help your friend, you would be smarter to teach him that hunger is wonderful and that there is an optimal amount of food: http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeSmart Here is a simple parable given in hopes of promoting greater understanding: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Parable <>< http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Counsels > Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve? > He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Can anyone work out what is going on! Most likely the Dr. he is seeing didn't tell him much except to take the pills and didn't hook him up with a dietician. Or... He could be like me. Tried the low carb approach and found it didn't work. That being said... I do have to watch what I eat. There is no way I could eat a couple of cookies or a pastry or a huge bowl of pasta and not have a BG spike. <<Can anyone work out what is going on!>> without being there, it's difficult to say. his doc may have said you cannot control this with diet...meaning he needs more like a medication too. when i was diagnosed, it was evident that diet alone was not going to work. i was put on a med immediately. but i was given a diet to go with it. Hi Helen, It's possible that he has too much damage for his diabetes to be controlled "solely" by diet. Even so, you are exactly right, both diet and exercise play a HUGE roll in controlling diabetes no matter what meds need to be added. From your description of his likes and dislikes, however, it seems doubtful that he's given diet modification much of a shot.  SignatureBest regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise BMI 21.5 > Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve? > He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Can anyone work out what is going on! Helen Back wrote in message >Here's the puzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by >diet, only medication". He is not on insulin just some tablets, which >he cant remember the name of. He has to take the tablets because the >diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps >repeating it to me! I don't really know what's going on since it's a small bit of info Helen, but I think that the fact that he's taking medication and doesn't know the name of it, probably speaks volumes. If you know him well enough, try to get some more information and post it. How many times does he test? Does he test? What kind of medication? What does he eat? I hope you can get some answers for him. Take care. Cheri > Helen Back wrote in message > >Here's thepuzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Cheri He wasnt given a meter!! I couldnt believe it!! The update is, he was sent to a diabetic nurse locally who did tell him he needs to modify his diet so there's the first contradiction! Also, he has been referred to a dietician and is having a retinopathy eye check at the hospital (WHICH IS MORE THAN I WAS BLOODY OFFERED!). I cant make sense of that! This is a guy who will have no intentions of following advice and he gets the works!! I've attempted to get him to write down the name of his medication but he keeps forgetting and says it begins with "b" and is a very long word! Oh well.... On 1 May, 18:16, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote: > Helen Back wrote in message > >Here's thepuzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Cheri He wasnt given a meter!! I couldnt believe it!! The update is, he was sent to a diabetic nurse locally who did tell him he needs to modify his diet so there's the first contradiction! Also, he has been referred to a dietician and is having a retinopathy eye check at the hospital (WHICH IS MORE THAN I WAS BLOODY OFFERED!). I cant make sense of that! This is a guy who will have no intentions of following advice and he gets the works!! I've attempted to get him to write down the name of his medication but he keeps forgetting and says it begins with "b" and is a very long word! Oh well.... Sounds like he is on a biguanide? Not a drug but a class of drugs. > Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve? > He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Can anyone work out what is going on! The resistance to an evident need for lifestyle change is a powerful force. It's amazing how people can rationalise themselves into believing anything, or, in this case, out of believing what is obvious to most of us. I have a diabetic friend, grossly overweight, quaffing down huge amounts of the wrong foods. When confronted by the need to exercise, and when someone suggests my example of exercising, his response is "aaah yes, but Henry's diabetes is different..... mine isn't as bad" "different"? "as bad"? Henry Mydlarz I went to a party last Saturday (I usually dread it), and luckily there were enough vegetables for me to just have that. I ate meat before I went. At one point I was standing by the paella, waiting for my chance to move around the table, and this lady I didn't know said "paella!" to me, as if I should have some. I said I couldn't have it because of being diabetic, and she said she was too, and went ahead and had a big serving of rice. Then she glanced at me and said that she had to take her meds when she got home. The polite thing was to say nothing. but sheesh. I hope she doesn't eat that way all the time. I'm sorry about your friend Helen. I hope there's a polite way to start to inform him. > ...and this lady I didn't know said "paella!" to me, as if I should have > some. I said I couldn't have it because of being diabetic, I just say "not for me right now...." or something similar; I might even say "yeah, it does look good, maybe later...." I do not try to explain, excuse, or justify my decision about it. I don't think it's necessary, though I will discuss it at times -- I'm not hiding it, just not making a point of it. There are plenty of reasons I might not have some particular dish at a party, lots of them having nothing to do with diabetes. I don't feel it necessary to explain those either. Besides, in my mind it's not "can't" but "won't" (or maybe just not right now). bj > > ...and this lady I didn't know said "paella!" to me, as if I should have > > some. I said I couldn't have it because of being diabetic, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > now). > bj I have actually had people say, "oh go on, eat it, its not like you eat it every day - treat yaself". Simply, we are back to people not understanding the dynamics of diabetes (I didnt, until my dx and this group!). > Besides, in my mind it's not "can't" but "won't" (or maybe just not right > now). > bj I have actually had people say, "oh go on, eat it, its not like you eat it every day - treat yaself". ------------------------------------- As I was saying to someone this morning (as I was looking through the post-race bagel offerings for something to take home for lunch....I'd been working-not-running so I wasn't eating right away or even soon....) -- and having nothing to do with diabetes or being urged to eat anything -- "it's not that I don't eat junk food, but... I'm *picky* about the junk food I eat!" I also took home a couple of brownie bites. :-) bj if it was a true palla with shrimps etc i would picked those out leavign the rice..lol KROM > I went to a party last Saturday (I usually dread it), and luckily > there were enough vegetables for me to just have that. I ate [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I'm sorry about your friend Helen. I hope there's a polite > way to start to inform him. > I went to a party last Saturday (I usually dread it), and luckily > there were enough vegetables for me to just have that. I ate [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I'm sorry about your friend Helen. I hope there's a polite > way to start to inform him. I've tried but I think we have all experienced the kind of people who wish to stay in denial because, in their hearts and minds, the changes are too hard to make! Yes? I've seen at least two people die from diabetic complications now - do I have to witness more I ask myself? Perhaps this is simply a constant sign being shown to me that if I do the right things, I wont experience it myself personally. > > Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve? > > He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Henry Mydlarz I was convinced he said "its not controlled by diet" so he can justify carrying on his bad eating habits. His whole family are unhealthy through either the lack of wishing to understand a healthier lifestyle or are simply incapable of understanding. > His whole family are unhealthy through either the lack of wishing to > understand a healthier lifestyle or are simply incapable of > understanding. The medical costs to support this family's freedom to eat in this manner is expensive. In 2002, dialysis costs per patient in the U.S. was $66,000 a year with a 7% yearly growth in the number of patients needing dialysis. Most governments, including the U.S., cover the costs of dialysis. http://jasn.asnjournals.org/cgi/content/full/13/suppl_1/S37 >Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve? >He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >Can anyone work out what is going on! It's not a puzzle. We all see it too often. Sadly, it is either ignorance or denial. He may not be able to treat it solely with diet, but the right menu could certainly complement or even minimise the medications. You can't force him to do anything. Nagging, haranguing, preaching will only cause him to resist. Just set the example and let him know that if he ever wants more information you're available. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile? and Cambodia http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html > It's not a puzzle. We all see it too often. > > Sadly, it is either ignorance or denial. He may not be able > to treat it solely with diet, but the right menu could > certainly complement or even minimise the medications. Or, possibly, he could be one of the many diabetics with undiagnosed Cushing's syndrome. I had a recent month of high cortisol during which my lowest carb meals caused shockingly high numbers, like 186 at two hours, and my A1c during that month had climbed to a high of 5.9%. High cortisol, like steroid drugs, causes severe spiking. Susan > On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Just set the example and let him know that if he ever wants > more information you're available. The only time I stood my ground firmly was when he said he had been told by the consultant that his *type* of diabetes cannot be controlled by diet. But, as you say at the end of your post, I simply left it with "Ray, I got my bg numbers down into the 5 range within a few months and havent felt this brilliant in a long time (Putting aside my fallback recently with the ol' glandular fever!) - if you need to ask any questions or want help with anything, I am here for you". Its all I can do. Thanks Alan. > Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve? > He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Can anyone work out what is going on! Yes, he is just ignorant of the facts. Perhaps he needs to go to an educator as well as the doctor at this point. Like a lot of type 2 diabetics they think the drugs are the thing that will control. Not his fault, his doctor probably didn't explain well. > > Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve? > > He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > think the drugs are the thing that will control. Not his fault, his doctor > probably didn't explain well I do know that some people, no matter how much they are told something is bad for them, that they will insist on doing it anyway. And for those of us who have the curiosity or will to live to research our dx, we are up against the so called professionals who insist we do it their way or no way! Obviously, there are a few of you who have shocked your doctors, dieticians and nutritionists into amazement at radical and positive changes in bg levels - you are the lucky ones! >Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve? >He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps >repeating it to me! G'day G'day Helen, It's a wonderful example of how illogical people can be. Presumably he has been told by his doctor that he doesn't have "borderline" diabetes. Hey, I didn't dream up the "borderline" diabetes description. It is one that seems to have been part of the misleading conversational vocabulary kit used by some doctors of a previous generation. Roughly speaking the first option for controlling T2 diabetes is exercise. If that doesn't work then the next option is exercise and diet. The next option is exercise, diet and oral medication. Then exercise, diet and insulin with or without oral medication. As Cheri has pointed out the fact he doesn't know the name of the tablets he is on speaks volumes. The bloke isn't that fast on the uptake. He believes there are at least two types of diabetes, one that is controlled by diet and one that requires medication. It is what is called a false dichotomy. Sorry about the big word. A false dichotomy is where one believes there are two separate classes when in fact the classes overlap. Most people benefit from exercise and diet and medication. Some need only exercise and diet. The classes overlap. Some of those who would benefit from exercise, diet and meds can get good control from exercise and diet alone if they really put their heart and soul and a heck of a lot of time and energy into research. Why does he keep repeating it to you to the point where to unload it as it were you're repeating it to us? (I'm impressed that you realise what is happening for you.) Well my guess it is a protection mechanism. He doesn't want to change his lifestyle, not one little scrap. Just because people act stupidly doesn't mean they aren't cunning. By repeating his mantra that his diabetes is the sort that is controlled by tablets he stops people from suggesting dietary and exercise changes. Neat eh. Time for sneaking admiration. Stupid from a future suffering point of view but quite clever all at the same time. People who follow the "take a tablet" and continue with the lifestyle that probably helped get them there in the first place are likely to see the later stages of the diabetic progression sooner rather than later. We often inclined to make the mistake of assuming stupid people aren't clever. That is our mistake unless we are aware of it. It reminds me of a Plunket nurse who was asked about how the adults in the area where she practiced dealt with Easter. "They shoot more insulin" was her realistic reply born of years of past experience. As others have elegantly pointed out you aren't going to change him. It is like smoking. Teenage smokers actually OVER estimate the years lost due to smoking so it is pointless pointing out how dangerous it is. Horrible as it may seem, one has to protect oneself first and foremost. Put bluntly it makes sense to tell him that ALL types of T2 diabetes require exercise and a change in diet to reduce the incidence of complications. Let that be your mantra. "If you are unwilling to make those changes then I am not the sort of person who can bear to watch it happening like it did for your brother. One brother was enough. So sorry, I can longer be your friend." Please don't hate me for appearing to be so heartless making what at first sight seems like such a heartless suggestion. I'm actually thinking of you and considering what you can do to reduce your suffering when someone else, an adult no less in full control of their faculties is not going to accept responsibility for themselves. Maybe ASD could take a vote on the matter. Whether you actually continue to keep an eye on him is not the point. What you tell him with regard to how much you buy into his little charade is. >Now, I dont know if this guy is lying as he knows he has no intention >of radically changing his dietary habits (he hates salads,most [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >history that my friend has no intentions of making an effort on the >dietary front. The consultant probably has him pretty well summed up. He undoubtedly wants him to realise his condition is serious. In that he has succeeded. However, something has backfired. Part of the real message hasn't gotten through. >I have told him that unless he changes his diet and ups the exercise >he can look at the same kind of misery his own brother went through. Good on you. What you've said is spot on. >That diet and exercise play a huge part in keeping it under control, >no matter how many tablets he takes. Absolutely. Without changing exercise and diet he'll soon need more tablets and soon they won't work. Of course he'll blame the type of diabetes he has on his needing insulin. That's his game. >Can anyone work out what is going on! It's easy to make an educated guess about most of it. Some details for example how much the consultant has said about the importance of exercise and dietary change is something we don't know. The consultant may have decided to cut his/her losses for all we know. What is important here, isn't the bloke who doesn't intend to change, it is you. Don't any of us forget it. You are the one actively doing something about your own diabetes. You are the one asking questions and contributing to the health of others. You matter. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin > On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > exercise and diet alone if they really put their heart and soul and a > heck of a lot of time and energy into research. Like us peeps, here!! :) > Why does he keep repeating it to you to the point where to unload it > as it were you're repeating it to us? > (I'm impressed that you realise what is happening for you.) So I will back off! :)) > Well my guess it is a protection mechanism. He doesn't want to change > his lifestyle, not one little scrap. Just because people act stupidly > doesn't mean they aren't cunning. By repeating his mantra that his > diabetes is the sort that is controlled by tablets he stops people > from suggesting dietary and exercise changes. Yes... I did suss him out from the start. :)) > Neat eh. Time for sneaking admiration. I could smack people for such cunning! :P > Stupid from a future suffering point of view but quite clever all at > the same time. People who follow the "take a tablet" and continue with > the lifestyle that probably helped get them there in the first place > are likely to see the later stages of the diabetic progression sooner > rather than later. He watched his brother deteriorate over a year. He cried because his brother had become this completely different person. He confided in me over his frustration at watching his own 73 year old mother weep over her son deteriorating. He wept in frustration at how he had to change his brother's soiled bed sheets every morning. He complained about the inconvenience of finding his brother face down in the wee hours of the morning about 5 times over that year. The list goes on.... > We often inclined to make the mistake of assuming stupid people aren't > clever. That is our mistake unless we are aware of it. I'm aware - I've had enough manipulators in my life to suss him out! :) > It reminds me of a Plunket nurse who was asked about how the adults in > the area where she practiced dealt with Easter. "They shoot more [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > suffering when someone else, an adult no less in full control of their > faculties is not going to accept responsibility for themselves. I will say something when the time is right. Ive backed off for now - I tried the scaremonger approach and the kind offering of help when he asks - thats all I can do. > Maybe ASD could take a vote on the matter. Whether you actually > continue to keep an eye on him is not the point. What you tell him > with regard to how much you buy into his little charade is. Ive told him already that after my dx, I sorted it out almost from the start and that my bg range is in the 5's and that I feel amazing since changing my diet and improving on the exercise front. Perhaps, now that he has the same condition as me, it will kickstart him as I am a prime example of pro-activeness - ya never know!!!!?? > >Now, I dont know if this guy is lying as he knows he has no intention > >of radically changing his dietary habits (he hates salads,most [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Good on you. What you've said is spot on. But, people in denial will continue to lie to themselves and others - the choice will be his -sadly. > >That diet and exercise play a huge part in keeping it under control, > >no matter how many tablets he takes. > > Absolutely. Without changing exercise and diet he'll soon need more > tablets and soon they won't work. Of course he'll blame the type of > diabetes he has on his needing insulin. That's his game. He can continue playing the game - its his choice. > >Can anyone work out what is going on! > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > something about your own diabetes. You are the one asking questions > and contributing to the health of others. You matter. Thank you for your valued responses, Quentin. And thank you especially for reminding me that *I* am doing for *me* and if my friend chooses not to do for himself, then so be it. I sent a post in response earlier but darn google had a glitch, so I had to retype it - hope it doesnt repeat anywhere LOL Thank you to everyone who responded - its most appreciated. Love to all.... HB >> You are the one actively doing >> something about your own diabetes. You are the one asking questions [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Love to all.... >HB G'day G'day Helen, I very much admire the way you "get it" A lot of people more especially women don't. They feel somehow that they must sacrifice themselves for others regardless of whether other adults take responsibility for themselves. Glad you aren't going there. Now you've mentioned a couple of thing that seem important from a zillion miles away. He cared about his brother. He saw what happened to him. May I make the bold suggestion that when the time is ripe you PRAISE this bloke. It sounds a bit screwy but he is taking his medication seriously. That is worth hammering every time the topic comes up. Each time he comes up with the "different type of diabetes" routine, PRAISE him for taking his medication seriously. So many don't. It deflates the barrier he has erected. Remind him of how he was there for his brother. That surely is worth praise. It also reminds him of what is in store if diabetes isn't dealt with effectively. Now that is two parts of praise before the mayonnaise. (Sorry Praise is brand name for mayonnaise here.) What I'm suggesting rather badly is that one can't effectively communicate with people who've shut off communication if what they perceive as occurring is an argument. So two parts praise ...repeated again and again. THEN comes the bit about meds being most effective when supported by diet and exercise. Notice that the meds and caring like he did for his brother have to come first, second and third before there's a chance he'll be thinking about a lifestyle change. Even then it is his responsibility not yours and you must put yourself first because not only do you need yourself but so do your immediate family including pets and they do their bit to be worthy of love. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >He saw what happened to him. May I make the bold suggestion that >when the time is ripe you PRAISE this bloke. It sounds a bit screwy [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >his brother have to come first, second and third before there's a >chance he'll be thinking about a lifestyle change. Quentin, you are a very clever man - even with the mayonnaise joke :P Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >Quentin, you are a very clever man - even with the mayonnaise joke :P > >Nicky. Thanks Nicky. Let's hope the emphasis on praise dissolving the barrier that has been erected gets through. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >(Sorry Praise is brand name for mayonnaise here.) Bet you can't eat two pounds of it (I'll get me coat) You have some good thoughts here (as usual) >>(Sorry Praise is brand name for mayonnaise here.) > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >You have some good thoughts here (as usual) I can't even imagine eating it. It's not my sort of thing. SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin > On Sun, 4 May 2008 02:58:26 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > first because not only do you need yourself but so do your immediate > family including pets and they do their bit to be worthy of love. What a brilliant and reverse psychology approach! That's it, isnt it! In my concern, panic, worry mode, I couldnt think about praising him for what he has achieved through caring for his brother and what he *is* doing now for his own condition. I was simply on a quest to punish him for not complying to my demands. When really, I should be simply praising him for what he has been capable of and is capable of. Its going to help me and I pray, help him too. And yes, I use a lot of energy up on people I care about, but my boys, my dogs and I must come first - another valid observation from you. When I sit down and reminisce over the day, I realise just how much love is shown towards me from my teenage boys and the animals - and that's a blessing in itself. Bless you, Quentin. >> <SiriusC...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >> >> You are the one actively doing [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > >What a brilliant and reverse psychology approach! G'day G'day Helen, Perhaps it is brilliant and perhaps it is reverse psychology. I'm not much into labels except as after thoughts. It came to me as I was walking the dogs along the beach where the gazanias grow profusely. I thought about what WAS there. That's our FIRST reaction. Then I thought about what WASN'T there. That's the SECOND reaction that only occurs if we give it a chance by asking the question out loud. "What wasn't there that ought to be there? " One positive thing about being terminally ill and walking with sticks is the no one cares if you mumble a bit to yourself. Being on a lonely beach where no one but a blind dog hears you helps too. <griN> We can all be brilliant once we know the secret. It's simple, eh? Personally I wouldn't bother with the reverse psychology tag though I can see how it would help some people. To me asking a useful question at the right time is more important. Hope that's clearer than mud. >That's it, isnt it! In my concern, panic, worry mode, I couldnt think about praising >him for what he has achieved through caring for his brother and what >he *is* doing now for his own condition. I was simply on a quest to >punish him for not complying to my demands. IMHO you are incredibly perceptive. Not many people would have had that degree of self realization. I'd be proud of myself if I made that sort of leap. You really are a smart cookie. >When really, I should be >simply praising him for what he has been capable of and is capable of. Try "could" rather than "should" "Should" tends to elicit the type of response where one does "forgetting" "Could" kicks off "can" and a feast of remembering in time. Just a wild hypothesis of mine. Don't get too excited about it. You'll know instinctively when will be the best time to praise him and bring about a real change. I typed cry if you like. It works on me. Then I deleted it. Then I wondered why so I put it back in. >Its going to help me and I pray, help him too. > >And yes, I use a lot of energy up on people I care about, but my boys, >my dogs and I must come first - another valid observation from you. I sensed that when you mentioned the tears. It was something you'd momentarily overlooked. You're far too special to let that happen again. >When I sit down and reminisce over the day, I realise just how much >love is shown towards me from my teenage boys and the animals - and >that's a blessing in itself. Absolutely. Lots of plusses >Bless you, Quentin. Thank you. A friend pulled this trick on me today. Wonder if someone can solve it as it embarrasses me that I don't know how they did it. (They didn't use the Chinese Remainder Theorem which I've tried unsuccessfully to teach them.) Think of a number between 7 and 100. Divide by five. What is the remainder? Two I answered. Divide by four What is the remainder? One I answered. Divide by seven. What is the remainder? Zero. The number is 77 my friend replied with little hesitation. Please put me out of my misery. It's got to involve nothing more than primary school arithmetic. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin > Think of a number between 7 and 100. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > The number is 77, my friend replied with little hesitation. How much hesitation? It took me fifteen minutes to come up with a method, but the first time I used it, I had less than a second of hesitation: (a) X mod 5 = 2 : last digit must be 7 or 2 (b) X mod 4 = 1 : X must be odd ( _7 ) (c) X mod 7 = 0 : X must be 7 or 77 (d) 7 mod 4 = 3 : X must be 77 For (c) you only need to know the sevens--if you had said remainder six, I would know that X + 1 must be 28 or 98. If 0 < X < 100, then (c) has at most two choices, and since the difference between them is seventy, only one can have the desired mod four value. How did I do all that in less than a second? I didn't! My son picked a number, and I said, "Divide by five and tell me the remainder." He also said "Two," and so I knew the last digit was either two or seven _before_ I finished saying, "Divide by four and tell me the remainder." He said "Two," and so I knew the number was even (last digit two) _before_ I finished saying, "Divide by seven and tell me the remainder." He said, "Four," so in the time it takes to say, "Your number is," I figured that it had to be three less than a multiple of seven that ends in five. There's only one choice: 32, so I did not need the tie-breaker (d). But I was wrong! The number is 92! How did that happen? The instructions are not clear. His computations were: Divide by five and tell me the remainder: 92 / 5 = 18 R 2 Divide by four and tell me the remainder: 18 / 4 = 4 R 2 Divide by seven and tell me the remainder: 4 / 7 = 0 R 4 which my method turns into (a) X mod 5 = 2 : last digit must be 7 or 2 (b) X mod 4 = 2 : X must be even ( _2 ) (c) X mod 7 = 4 : X+3 can only be 35 : X = 32 If I had bothered to check (d) 32 mod 4 = 0 then I might have realized that he did not do what I wanted. Instead, I said, "Your number is 32" and he said "92" I said "92 divided by seven has a reminder of one." He said, "Oh, I thought you meant....." Before I even worked out the technique, I had realized two possible interpretations of the instructions, so if I had checked step (d), I would have suspected what happened, and I could have taken a little more time to figure: Third remainder is also the dividend (divide X < 100 by 5, second dividend < 20, divide that by four: less than five). So second dividend is 4 * 4 + 2 = 18 and the number is 18 * 5 + 2 = 92 However, with a little more practice and thought, I would have rephrased the instructions to make the alternate method unnecessary. SignatureWes Groleau Heroes, Heritage, and History http://UniGen.us/PGV >> Think of a number between 7 and 100. >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >(d) 7 mod 4 = 3 : X must be 77 G'day G'day Wes, I'm sure that is likely to be the method my friend used. I must I'm feeling particularly dumb now having explored some arcane methods rather than the obvious. As it happens my friend actually said it must be 7 or 77 No, No it must be 77. I introduced the puzzle because I wanted to get past the idea of me being brilliant. Believing that wouldn't have helped them find their own solution in the future. >For (c) you only need to know the sevens--if you had said >remainder six, I would know that X + 1 must be 28 or 98. [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] >have rephrased the instructions to make the alternate >method unnecessary. Yes. The instructions weren't clear. It is just as they were given to me originally. That's how stories are sometimes. The come with their imperfectios. Best wishes and thanks for your solutions. They've helped me considerably. SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >> Think of a number between 7 and 100. >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >since the difference between them is seventy, only one >can have the desired mod four value. This is where I got slower. The first part where one works out what the last digit is takes very little time. However the part that slows me down is deciding what the first digit is from the remainder when dividing by 7. That takes me ages ... well it feels like ages. Can you give me a couple of examples so I can get a feel for how it is done? Thanks. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin > On Thu, 08 May 2008 02:59:13 GMT, Wes Groleau > However the part that slows me down is deciding what the first digit [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Can you give me a couple of examples so I can get a feel for how it is > done? Thanks. It's not really computation from remainder to first digit, it's memory. Well, it's both. Suppose the last digit is six and the remainder mod seven is two. remainder two means it is a multiple of seven, plus two. If that number ends in six, then the multiple of seven must end in four. Which multiples of seven end in four? 7 _14_ 21 ... 77 _84_ 91 98 reverse the 6-2=4 shift and you have 16 and 86. Take a "random" number--the minutes in my posting time above (59) Mod 5 = 4 -- last digit 4 or 9 mod 4 = 3 -- number odd, last digit odd (9) mod 7 = 3 -- three above a multiple of seven which ends in 6 7, 14, 21, 28, 35, 42, 49, _56_ 56 + 3 = 59 If the subtraction involves a "borrow", i.e., the remainder mod 7 is bigger than the last digit, you can instead add the complement: Remainder Complement 0 7 1 6 2 5 3 4 4 3 5 2 6 1 For example, 51 mod 7 = 2 so _1 = X - 2 where X = multiple of seven ending in 11 - 2 = 9 (49) OR _1 = X + 5 where X = multiple of seven ending in 1 + 5 = 6 (56) SignatureWes Groleau If you put garbage in a computer nothing comes out but garbage. But this garbage, having passed through a very expensive machine, is somehow ennobled and none dare criticize it. >> On Thu, 08 May 2008 02:59:13 GMT, Wes Groleau >> However the part that slows me down is deciding what the first digit [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >so _1 = X - 2 where X = multiple of seven ending in 11 - 2 = 9 (49) >OR _1 = X + 5 where X = multiple of seven ending in 1 + 5 = 6 (56) G'day G'day Wes, Thanks. I hadn't considered using complements. It shows how important it can be to share what one is attempting with someone else. Different approaches greatly widen the approaches one considers. Once again, thank you. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >Can anyone work out what is going on! He's ostriching. Sorry you're going to have to go through that again :( Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >He's ostriching. Like the new verb. Too much of it about, time for the right word to appear:-) Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile? and Cambodia http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html > On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > He's ostriching. Sorry you're going to have to go through that again > :( Yes, as I was responding to Quentin, blinkin' tears started pouring down my face. Not quite over my mum and other friend yet, obviously!! :( >> On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Not quite over my mum and other friend yet, obviously!! :( Hi Helen, I'm so sorry. It makes a person feel so helpless to know that a person needs to take better care of himself and he pretends he doesn't. And it's especially frustrating in the fact that he felt the same type of helplessness when his brother was going through it, yet can't/won't see it now. Wish I had some profound thought to offer, but I don't. It just sucks. SignatureBest regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise BMI 21.5 > >> On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Wish I had some profound thought to offer, but I don't. It just sucks. > -- Thank you so much for your kind words. I am hoping that Quentin's suggestion to praise, rather than panic mode demand positive results from my friend, will make something *click* for him. Cheers xx >> On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Not quite over my mum and other friend yet, obviously!! :( Helen, you're a person who cares and cares deeply. Some might suggest that is a rarity in today's world. Frankly ASD let's us bare witness to some pretty magnificent acts of human kindness. IMHO your caring says to me that you are a better person. When I've cried I notice the colours in the room are brighter afterwards. The question is how best to support YOU. On ASD it is primarily the person who is posting who needs our support. That's you not the guy whose behavior isn't helping his future happiness. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin > On Sun, 4 May 2008 02:27:55 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > person who is posting who needs our support. That's you not the guy > whose behavior isn't helping his future happiness. How could I miss this post? Arent nice things said about us such boosts to the soul :))) And yes, I notice colours are brighter after a good release through crying. What I am definitely sure of is that if I need help here, I will receive it - and that is a great comfort and I thank you and everybody who takes the time to write and the energy to care. Thank you xx > Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve? > He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Can anyone work out what is going on! Like all things in health, each person reacts differently to any regimen or medication. There is no one-shoe-fits-all. As to diet, you are correct to a point. If someone is diagnosed early, there is a very good chance that diet and exercise will fully control the condition. Maybe after a few months of pills to get started and provide a safety cushion. But, my Endro told me that... 1) At some point, as we get older, diet alone tends not work. 2) If diagnoses comes later in the progression of diabetes, diet alone does not work. In my case, both 1 & 2 apply. Even though I eat a very controlled diet, I still need my meds. Note I said "diet alone" but a good diet is still essential for diabetics. Meds or no. -- ======= Tecknomage ======= San Diego, CA "The Mage Soapbox" blog at magesoapbox.blogspot.com >As to diet, you are correct to a point. If someone is diagnosed >early, there is a very good chance that diet and exercise will fully [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Note I said "diet alone" but a good diet is still essential for >diabetics. Meds or no. All very true, subject to some definition for a "good diet". Could you describe your "very controlled diet" in terms of menu or macronutrients? Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile? and Cambodia http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html >Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve? >He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >Can anyone work out what is going on! He's either in denial of the reality of his disease or he has an idiot medical team that has provided him with no diabetes education or both. Some people are like that. And he's not going to listen to you any time soon, even though what you told him was correct about diet and exercise being a major part of diabetes care, regardless of the type of diabetic you are. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . > On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > He's either in denial of the reality of his disease or he has an idiot > medical team that has provided him with no diabetes education or both. Both. With myself - I have an idiot medical team (well, it's not even a team!) - it took surfing and this group to find the truth and knowledge. > Some people are like that. And he's not going to listen to you any > time soon, even though what you told him was correct about diet and > exercise being a major part of diabetes care, regardless of the type > of diabetic you are. Thanks Mack :)) >Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve? >He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >Can anyone work out what is going on! Could be one of the MODYs http://www.projects.ex.ac.uk/diabetesgenes/index.htm some of them are controlled rather well by small doses of sulfs. Either the doctor has oversimplified the message or he has chosen only to hear half of it. Or of course both . . . > Here's the puzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by > diet, only medication". He is not on insulin just some tablets, which > he cant remember the name of. He has to take the tablets because the > diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps > repeating it to me! "I can see that your diabetes is being treated by medication instead of by diet. My point is that it _should_ be treated by diet, and would be if you had been given better advice." I know that's a bit flippant, but .... SignatureWes Groleau Change is inevitable. Conservatives should learn that "inevitable" is not a synonym for "bad." Liberals need to learn that "inevitable" is not a synonym for "good." -- WWG > > Here's thepuzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by > > diet, only medication". He is not on insulin just some tablets, which [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I know that's a bit flippant, but .... Not flippant at all - a valid and honest comment. And I will incorporate it into my *praise* conversation (as so graciously suggested by our dear Quentin). Thank you. > > > Here's thepuzzle! �He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by > > > diet, only medication". �He is not on insulin just some tablets, which [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > incorporate it into my *praise* conversation (as so graciously > suggested by our dear Quentin). It remains smarter to pursue a possible cure of type-2 diabetes by eating less, down to the right amount: http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeSmart Here is yet again that very simple parable given in hopes of promoting much greater understanding: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Parable LIfe in these industrialized nations is truly life in blessed feedlots. > Thank you. Laus Deo http://HeartMDPhD.com/LausDeo Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthier Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow On May 6, 9:40 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: > > > > Here's thepuzzle! �He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by > > > > diet, only medication". �He is not on insulin just some tablets, which [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Lawful steward ofhttp://EmoryCardiology.com > A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords.http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow When signed into Google, with a Chung Dung post open, look to the upper right hand corner. Click on "more options" Then click on "report this message" and "Type of abuse* I am seeing spam" Be sure to include a description of Chung's worthless, repetitive, off topic, self- serving spam and point out that he gives bad, nonstandard medical advice and has multiple Google accounts. > On May 6, 9:40 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" > <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > serving spam and point out that he gives bad, nonstandard medical > advice and has multiple Google accounts. Most folks have reported him only to find that he opens more accounts. Putting it in simple words: He is unstoppable. In addition if you have a Google account, be careful. Chung will report you from all his multiple accounts to Google until you get removed. It has happened here to certain poster that started a group against Chung's spam. Hope this helps. http://HeartMDPhD.com/Despairingsatan <>< http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Counsels > Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve? > He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Can anyone work out what is going on! Your diabetic friend is the classic accident waiting to happen. His inability to remember the name of his medicine may be an indication of more than carelessness. Bernstein wrote about this in his book "Diabetes Solution" long before we started seeing a link established between Alzheimer's and poorly controlled diabetes. |
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