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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2008Aerobic Power and aging
G'day G'day Folks, Most posters are aware that T2 diabetes accelerates biological aging. Fortunately there appears to be something one can do to offset biological aging. Read about it in this Medscape article. Medscape requires subscription but it is free. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/573636_print Best wishes,  SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >G'day G'day Folks, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/573636_print I read this kind of claim in weight-training books for women around my own dx. It's what caused me to take up resistance training. The benefits are undeniable for me now, at 47 - and even should I decide to stop tomorrow, they'll continue well into old age. The best bit is how progressive they can be, it's possible to start and improve from ANY level. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >>G'day G'day Folks, >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I read this kind of claim in weight-training books for women around my >own dx. It's what caused me to take up resistance training. G'day G'day Nicky, It is amazing how important it is what we read at the time we are diagnosed. It is a time when we disparately are seeking some salvation from the situation we find ourselves in and a time when we are ready to take action. At other times in our lives what we read is likely to be only a matter of passing interest. You know the sort of thing which we might mention to friends and "forget" when they change the subject to something of greater interest to them. Diagnosis changes all of that. Suddenly the interest is personal. >The >benefits are undeniable for me now, at 47 - and even should I decide >to stop tomorrow, they'll continue well into old age. Absolutely. >The best bit is how progressive they can be, it's possible to start and improve from >ANY level. Indeed. >Nicky. You remind me of the time when I was being assessed by a group of oncologists for a stem cell transplant. They gathered around my bed staring at me making notes as assessed my biological age. The younger I was according to their calculations the more vigorous the treatment option. With a bit of reverse engineering I figured they had given me eight years youthwise thanks to my feisty attitude. It was something I'd never thought about. As you can imagine it is something that I never leave behind. The point is you never know when someone is going to be assessing your biological age for some serious purpose. Sort of like wearing clean underwear when going to town just in case you end up in hospital. Like a good scout you have to be prepared. <grin> Eight years for attitude. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >You remind me of the time when I was being assessed by a group of >oncologists for a stem cell transplant. They gathered around my bed >staring at me making notes as assessed my biological age. The younger >I was according to their calculations the more vigorous the treatment >option. With a bit of reverse engineering I figured they had given me >eight years youthwise thanks to my feisty attitude. Heh - what an incentive :D I like your attitude... I also remember what you said about trusting their decisions, as mutual stress-reducing. My Dad approaches his medical issues by telling dreadful jokes - maybe I'll stop apologising for him, it might work :P Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >>You remind me of the time when I was being assessed by a group of >>oncologists for a stem cell transplant. They gathered around my bed [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >stress-reducing. My Dad approaches his medical issues by telling >dreadful jokes - maybe I'll stop apologising for him, it might work :P Hey. I like that. We all cope with stress in different ways. Telling dreadful jokes is a skill I've never acquired. I'm not good at telling jokes anyway. So good on him. And good on you for recognising their importance to him and accepting them. Well done. Best wishes, >Nicky. >T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid >D&E, 100ug thyroxine >Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >>You remind me of the time when I was being assessed by a group of >>oncologists for a stem cell transplant. They gathered around my bed [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > D&E, 100ug thyroxine > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 I expect your dad is well-liked by his medical caretakers, Nicky. :-) When I was a lab tech at a small hospital, a man who had been in several times before was brought to the ER with chest pain. As the EMT crew was preparing to move him from the ambulance gurney to an ER bed, he rolled over making to reach in his back pocket, and said, "Just a second, I've got to get this bottle of viagra out of my pocket." I imagine the expression on our faces was priceless. The patient burst out laughing. The end result was that it made the patient better able to cope with what was no doubt an uncomfortable and frightening situation, and also lessened the tension for the ER staff. Never underestimate the power of feisty-ness! SignatureBest regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise BMI 21.5 >>>You remind me of the time when I was being assessed by a group of >>>oncologists for a stem cell transplant. They gathered around my bed [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >uncomfortable and frightening situation, and also lessened the tension for >the ER staff. Never underestimate the power of feisty-ness! hehehe! When the anesthetist andavnced on me with a needle and said "Just a little prick!" I said "As long as it's not a big prick I don't mind" >>>>You remind me of the time when I was being assessed by a group of >>>>oncologists for a stem cell transplant. They gathered around my bed [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > I said "As long as it's not a big prick I don't mind" LOL! SignatureBest regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise BMI 21.5 >>>>You remind me of the time when I was being assessed by a group of >>>>oncologists for a stem cell transplant. They gathered around my bed [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > >I said "As long as it's not a big prick I don't mind" Doctor, making a house call to treat a teenage girl, puts on his stethoscope, places the and on the girls chest and say "Big Breathes." She says "I know, and I'm only thickthteen!" SignatureLarry, T2, Saskatchewan, Canada. DX 24 Aug 07. D&E Metformin 2000mg, Ramipril, Simvastatin Dx A1c 8.1 : Latest 5.1 (4 Mar 08) >>>>>You remind me of the time when I was being assessed by a group of >>>>>oncologists for a stem cell transplant. They gathered around my bed [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >stethoscope, places the and on the girls chest and say "Big Breathes." >She says "I know, and I'm only thickthteen!" And _without_ the typos: Doctor, making a house call to treat a teenage girl, puts on his stethoscope, places the end on the girls chest and says "Big Breaths." She says "I know, and I'm only thickthteen!" SignatureLarry, T2, Saskatchewan, Canada. DX 24 Aug 07. D&E Metformin 2000mg, Ramipril, Simvastatin Dx A1c 8.1 : Latest 5.1 (4 Mar 08) >>Doctor, making a house call to treat a teenage girl, puts on his >>stethoscope, places the and on the girls chest and say "Big Breathes." [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >She says "I know, and I'm only thickthteen!" ROFL ands what;s with thoise typos anyway, this is what my typing looks like before I edit it. Plus I'm often doing letter pair reversals but never the classic "teh" >>G'day G'day Folks, >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >D&E, 100ug thyroxine >Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 I just turned 66. Seven months ago I started working with a personal trainer doing weight training. He had me start doing regular cardio also. I have lost 70 pounds. I had both knees replaced in 2003. Tuesday I had my five year check up. I can now bend both knees to 125°. My previous best was 113°. I can also roll up from lying on my back to a sitting position without pulling myself up at all. I feel better, move better, and can do much, much more than I have been able to do in the last 10-15 years. I am a very happy camper. BTW, my BG averages are 95-97. Training certainly does work. -- BettyB -- www.flamingo-code.com "I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road." - Stephen Hawking >I just turned 66. Seven months ago I started working with a personal >trainer doing weight training. He had me start doing regular cardio [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >to do in the last 10-15 years. I am a very happy camper. BTW, my BG >averages are 95-97. Training certainly does work. Kudos to you for doing the work - what a great success story! Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >>I just turned 66. Seven months ago I started working with a personal >>trainer doing weight training. He had me start doing regular cardio [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >D&E, 100ug thyroxine >Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 Thanks. I'm having a ball! -- BettyB -- www.flamingo-code.com "I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road." - Stephen Hawking >>>G'day G'day Folks, >>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >>D&E, 100ug thyroxine >>Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > I just turned 66. Seven months ago I started working with a personal > trainer doing weight training. He had me start doing regular cardio [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to do in the last 10-15 years. I am a very happy camper. BTW, my BG > averages are 95-97. Training certainly does work. I have long suspected, simply from observing the differences in the ways my friends and relatives have aged, that many of the usual markers of age such as reduced aerobic capacity, reduced strength, lost muscle mass, bone, joint and muscle pains, etc., are not so much some kind of inevitable independent time-related set of degenerations, but a dynamic inter-related whole in which when one thing starts giving you a few problems, it causes you to slow down a bit and sit around a bit more. After a while your body adapts to the decreased activity and not only can you no longer do what you used to be able to do, but some of what you do occasionally now causes you aches, pains, or fatigue. So you slow down and sit around a bit more. In that way a synergistic positive feedback process of general degeneration ends up producing the symptoms which are usually attributed to aging. In my last years at work I suffered a heart attack plus undiagnosed T2 diabetes. Trying to cope with that I overworked and under-exercised and became rather unfit and started putting on weight. Which made me increasingly disinclined to take exercise because it was getting progressively more of an effort. Soon after discovering I was diabetic I decided to retire in order to try to rebuild my health. At age 62 I was told by various docs that the best I could expect at my age from exercise was to slow down, and possibly arrest for a while, the inevitable loss of strength etc. due to aging. In order to test this unwelcome hypothesis I started a programme of experimental increase of arm strength. I discovered to my dismay that I couldn't even do one pullup, all I could do was hang twitching from a pull up bar. However several months later I was doing ten pullups so enthusiastically that I damaged my elbows. So not only could I still increase strength a lot, I could do it so fast I could injure myself. I next wondered if simply pushing myself to take advantage of exercise opportunities in daily life would get me into a positive feedback virtuous cycle of getting stronger and fitter. Doing things like walking up stairs instead of taking elevators. Cycling and walking instead of using the infernal combustion engine. Doing garden and house DIY work. And so on. Plus a much milder programme of occasional irregular pullups and weight lifting. Seems to have worked. Two years later I can walk about twice as far carrying about three times the weight as I could when diagnosed before getting tired, and I recover from exhausting myself with a long physically demanding day at least twice as fast. If I find I'm losing a useful physical ability I try and work out a way of building specific work for it into my daily routine. For example I noticed it was getting harder for me to get up from the floor. Instead of being able to bounce up as I used to I was starting to struggle up stage by stage like an old person. First get onto the knees. Then get one foot on the floor. Help the old legs and balance by pushing down on the knee with one arm and pulling up on something with the other. Heave! You know how it goes :-) So I started lying on the floor to watch TV instead of sitting on the sofa, That meant whenever I got up I was forced to get up from right down on the floor. As I got better at it I tried to do it more quickly and elegantly. After several months I became able to rock backwards and use the momentum to roll forwards and rise up onto my feet in one quick movement without touching anything with my hands. So I then started trying to do it slowly and smoothly, which takes more strength and balance. Which I can now do. As an unexpected side effect of doing that I've lost the slight dizziness I used to get when I got up too quickly. It was worst in the morning. If I got up out of bed onto my feet too quickly I was in danger of falling due to dizziness. I had to sit on the edge of the bed for a few moments before standing up. Now I find myself sometimes bouncing out of bed straight onto my feet simply because I feel like it, and without the slightest trace of dizziness. At a rough guess I've got back to the general physical fitness I had about twelve years ago. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] >I have long suspected, simply from observing the differences in the >ways my friends and relatives have aged, that many of the usual [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >do, but some of what you do occasionally now causes you aches, pains, >or fatigue. So you slow down and sit around a bit more. <how to sort these issues snipped> >At a rough guess I've got back to the general physical fitness I had >about twelve years ago. And so the next time the doctor tells you "It's to be expected at your age" - remember he's talking about the other half of the bell curve. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >And so the next time the doctor tells you "It's to be expected at your >age" - remember he's talking about the other half of the bell curve. I love it. It creates a wonderful mental picture to inspire a positive feeling. Great. Thanks Nicky for such a creative mental tool. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin G'day G'day Chris, I read your post with a mixture of admiration and trepidation, Admiration at what you had achieved and trepidation that you would do yourself permanent damage. For that reason I decided to top post so others could read your post and see if they share the feelings I felt. Best wishes, Quentin. >>>>G'day G'day Folks, >>>> [quoted text clipped - 105 lines] >At a rough guess I've got back to the general physical fitness I had >about twelve years ago. SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin > G'day G'day Chris, > I read your post with a mixture of admiration and trepidation, > Admiration at what you had achieved and trepidation that you would do > yourself permanent damage. For that reason I decided to top post so > others could read your post and see if they share the feelings I felt. Permanent damage? Does this relate to a comment you made in another post about damage which I also found puzzling. You wrote: "I've been reading Jenny's book including her comments on exercise. She emphasizes that the most important point is not to hurt yourself. T2s simply can't afford the permanent injuries since T2 is for ever." I don't understand why a permanent injury should be worse if you're a diabetic. Of course if you've progressed in your diabetes to the point where healing is difficult then injuries should be avoided, e.g. the frequent advice to avoid cuts and punctures etc. to the feet. That advice however only applies if you have difficulty in healing. I keep an eye on how I heal from minor cuts and bruises and so far they're healing well, so I'm taking no special precautions to avoid them. In fact the minor injuries my hands sustain are a useful monitor on how my healing is going. I'm rarely without a few scabs on my hands, and so far so good. I mentioned over exercising my arms and injuring my elbow tendons. That was part of a deliberate experiment to see how fast I could develop muscle strength. I knew I was risking tendon damage. That's why I chose to do that experiment with my arms. Recovering from that damage requires severe rest. I knew I could rest my arms, whereas it would be much more difficult to rest my legs. In other words I chose to risk a disabling injury in a part of the body where the disabling would be tolerable. I also reasoned that if I was still physiologically capable of developing muscle at that rate then it was very likely that I was still capable of repairing damaged tendon. You are quite right in noticing that I'm taking risks. I guess I'm a natural risk taker. I love gambling and winning! I do try however to be an intelligent risk taker. I take precautions to minimise the possible losses. I have no doubt that the day will come when I will have to be careful to avoid any injury. I'm glad to be able to say that that day has not yet arrived :-) SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] : > G'day G'day Chris, : > I read your post with a mixture of admiration and trepidation, : > Admiration at what you had achieved and trepidation that you would do : > yourself permanent damage. For that reason I decided to top post so : > others could read your post and see if they share the feelings I felt. : Permanent damage? Does this relate to a comment you made in another : post about damage which I also found puzzling. You wrote: : "I've been reading Jenny's book including : her comments on exercise. She emphasizes that the most important : point is not to hurt yourself. T2s simply can't afford the permanent : injuries since T2 is for ever." : I don't understand why a permanent injury should be worse if you're a : diabetic. Of course if you've progressed in your diabetes to the point [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] : my healing is going. I'm rarely without a few scabs on my hands, and : so far so good. Chris, If you do injury to your back , which seems to be my case as a result of sitting weirdly while having a broken arm, you can find your exercise limited for thr rest of your life. aybe that's what she is talking about. Ijuries that limit walking or much other exercise. Wendy > : > G'day G'day Chris, > : > I read your post with a mixture of admiration and trepidation, > : > Admiration at what you had achieved and trepidation that you would do > : > yourself permanent damage. For that reason I decided to top post so > : > others could read your post and see if they share the feelings I felt. > : Permanent damage? Does this relate to a comment you made in another > : post about damage which I also found puzzling. You wrote: > : "I've been reading Jenny's book including > : her comments on exercise. She emphasizes that the most important > : point is not to hurt yourself. T2s simply can't afford the permanent > : injuries since T2 is for ever." > : I don't understand why a permanent injury should be worse if you're a > : diabetic. Of course if you've progressed in your diabetes to the point [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > : my healing is going. I'm rarely without a few scabs on my hands, and > : so far so good. > Chris, > If you do injury to your back , which seems to be my case as a result of > sitting weirdly while having a broken arm, you can find your exercise > limited for thr rest of your life. aybe that's what she is talking about. > Ijuries that limit walking or much other exercise. Decades ago I injured my back very severely, losing muscular control of parts of my legs. I didn't like what doctors and consultants told me about it, so I consulted quite a number. They all advised me that without some slightly risky surgery to fuse the damaged parts I'd suffer from a bad back for the rest of my life. I'd be able to get around, probably without pain, but I'd have to be very careful. I'd certainly never be able to run, dance, or hill walk, ever again. Unless I opted for the surgery and it came out well. And totally forget such lunatic activities as rock climbing and lifting heavy furniture! It took twelve years of a programme of carefully graded rest and exercise to recover from that. To begin with I couldn't even walk round the block without hurting my back. About half way round was all I could manange, then I had to sit down and take a recovery break. It was twelve years before I could cycle over a cobbled street without the jolting causing me considerable pain. Which in much cobbled and pot-holed Edinburgh meant I couldn't cycle at all. The good news is that my back is now stronger and more trouble free than most of my age. I can run, dance, and cycle. I even rock climb and shift heavy furniture. My spine was X-rayed a few years ago to check for possible ankylosing spondilitis. Not only was there none, but the consultant said there was a lot of very ancient damage in my lower back which now looked very well healed and knitted over. He said if he hadn't seen me walk in and stand beside him he would have sworn he was looking at the X-ray of the back of a wheelchair case. He'd never seen that much damage before in someone who could walk. As a result of that injury, and learning how to recover from it, I'm now *very* *very* careful with my back. But that doesn't mean molly-coddling it. It means making sure by means of exercise that it's strong enough to take the punishment I like to give it. But punishment doesn't mean pain. I've learned that it is very important to explore every little twinge and ache in my muscles and joints, and I back off immediately I suspect an injury which exercise is exacerbating. The lessons I learned about recovery from injury there have stood me in good stead, because I later broke a wrist and hand rather badly. I was told I'd never recover full movement in that wrist. 60% to 70% was the best I could hope for. But by means of manipulations and exercises which the doctors said would do no good at all I recovered full movement. I do very well understand that a reasonable amount of fairly regular walking is now essential to my continued health. That's why I chose to do my extreme and possibly injurious experiment with my arms. I know that I can keep walking with damaged arms. It took a year of graded exercises, but my arms have now recovered, and my joints and tendons are now stronger than before. And the lessons I learned from that I can now apply to legs and other larger more important muscles and joints, which are too important to take risks with. I'm certainly not recommending that others do as I do. Very dangerous for the unskilled. But I think I've earned the right to raise a sceptical eyebrow when a doctor tells me I can't do something :-) I know age is going to kill me in the end. But I'm not going down without a damn good fight :-) One thing I've learned is that hopelessness is a killer. It's *very* important to hang on to hope. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] Chris Malcolm said... > I know age is going to kill me in the end. Chris, Or, it could be a bolt of lightning that strikes you as you're rejoicing your hole in one! That's how I'd like to go, anyway! :) I broke my lower leg in two places back on March 10th. I didn't know it until two days later when the pain became unbearable. The hospital put on a cast and a leg splint and I got crutches and 5 days of a most excellent pain-killer (percoset)! I stayed in bed for most of six weeks and hobbled around (ask me if I hate stairs!). I did adopt an aggressive calcium & vitamin D supplement therapy and today I only get a "friendly reminder" dull ache once in awhile. I still tenderfoot around out of habit. Looking forward to my 4.6 mile daily walk in the park real soon. Note to self: buy new sneakers! Stay well, Andy [ . . . ] > I know age is going to kill me in the end. But I'm not going down > without a damn good fight :-) One thing I've learned is that > hopelessness is a killer. It's *very* important to hang on to hope. Hi Chris. Your descriptions of your experiences certainly prove how valuable a good attitude and well thought out attack can work. Most admirable. Yes. No one has gotten out of this world alive, but as you say, "Hang in there 'til the end!" Lang may yer lums reek! BTW I'm a Yank supporter of Auld Reekie's Hibernian Football team. ;-) Take care. SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ > > G'day G'day Chris, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > point is not to hurt yourself. T2s simply can't afford the permanent > injuries since T2 is for ever." If your level of control crucially depends on a particular type and amount of exercise, and you hurt yourself to the extent that you have to cut back on your exercise, your control will suffer. This is, in fact, why I'm so rigid with diet. I want to be able to control my blood sugar with diet alone. Thus, if I can't exercise (or work in the garden, or whatever physical activity exercise is a substitute for), I should be able to maintain my control. I'm extremely grateful that in the past year there hasn't been any vigorous activity that I've wanted to and been unable to participate in (though I've wished snow-shoveling wasn't so immediately neccessary!). Signature"[xxx] has very definite opinions, and does not suffer fools lightly. This, apparently, upsets the fools." ---BB cuts to the pith of a flame-fest >> G'day G'day Chris, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >I don't understand why a permanent injury should be worse if you're a >diabetic. T2 diabetics must exercise. There are IMHO no ifs and buts about it. Execise comes before diet in importance though diet is also vitally important. Then there is taking meds appropriately. You know all that. So an injury that prevents exercise is contraindicated for T2 diabetics. For a non-diabetic it would be a nuisance but not necessarily life threatening. It's a matter of how one interprets what I said. >Of course if you've progressed in your diabetes to the point >where healing is difficult then injuries should be avoided, e.g. the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >my healing is going. I'm rarely without a few scabs on my hands, and >so far so good. Slow healing is another aspect. >I mentioned over exercising my arms and injuring my elbow >tendons. That was part of a deliberate experiment to see how fast I >could develop muscle strength. I knew I was risking tendon >damage. Some people would criticize your actions doing that. I understood what you were doing and why you were doing it. Never the less I did read what you were doing with some trepidation. Would your calculated risk taking only attract the damage you were prepared to accept. IMHO there is a certain degree of randomness in the occurrence of injuries. Put simply one can't always have the injuries you'd like to have. >That's why I chose to do that experiment with my >arms. Recovering from that damage requires severe rest. I knew I could [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >rate then it was very likely that I was still capable of repairing >damaged tendon. It is seldom that one comes across someone who is pleased to have risked injuring themselves and been so injured. >You are quite right in noticing that I'm taking risks. I guess I'm a >natural risk taker. I love gambling and winning! I do try however to >be an intelligent risk taker. I take precautions to minimise the >possible losses. Some of us will continue to watch with a mixture of admiration and trepidation. That is our nature. >I have no doubt that the day will come when I will have to be careful >to avoid any injury. I'm glad to be able to say that that day has not >yet arrived :-) Good for you. Being a T2 is a challenge and we all meet it in a manner befitting the meaning we give to living. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >>I mentioned over exercising my arms and injuring my elbow >>tendons. That was part of a deliberate experiment to see how fast I >>could develop muscle strength. I knew I was risking tendon >>damage. > Some people would criticize your actions doing that. I understood > what you were doing and why you were doing it. Never the less I did [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > occurrence of injuries. Put simply one can't always have the injuries > you'd like to have. That's true of life in general. If you want to be safe avoid phyical activity as much as possible. I notice that lots of mothers are applying that idea to their children these days. They don't let them go outside unsupervised by an adult. They don;t let them do anything dangerous. They drive them to the school that's only a mile away. As a result these children are growing up phyically incompetent, clumsy, unable to assess physical risk, unfit, and overweight. >>That's why I chose to do that experiment with my >>arms. Recovering from that damage requires severe rest. I knew I could [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>rate then it was very likely that I was still capable of repairing >>damaged tendon. > It is seldom that one comes across someone who is pleased to have > risked injuring themselves and been so injured. That's because I discovered something important and useful. I'm an inquisitive man who highly values knowledge. Now I know more clearly where the physical limits of this old body are. As a result of risking a minor and very likely recoverable injury I'm now better able to plan how to keep my bigger and more important muscles and joints in good shape for as long as possible. You also have to factor in that I've always been much better than most people at recovering from injuries, all my life. >>You are quite right in noticing that I'm taking risks. I guess I'm a >>natural risk taker. I love gambling and winning! I do try however to >>be an intelligent risk taker. I take precautions to minimise the >>possible losses. > Some of us will continue to watch with a mixture of admiration and > trepidation. That is our nature. I scare myself too. But I like being a bit scared. It's exciting and fun, and it's good exercise for the adrenal glands, which do tend to suffer from disuse and atrophy as one ages. I was told by an endocrinologist some years ago that I'd never recover from my seriously crippling adrenal insufficiency, and would have to take low dose prednisolone for the rest of my life. I decided to see if I could prove him wrong and recover my lost adrenal capacity. Arranging to get scared on a regular basis was part of my adrenal recovery programme. I can't know for sure, but it seems not unreasonable to suppose that probably played a part in my successful recovery. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] >>>I mentioned over exercising my arms and injuring my elbow >>>tendons. That was part of a deliberate experiment to see how fast I [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >a result these children are growing up phyically incompetent, clumsy, >unable to assess physical risk, unfit, and overweight. but at least those kids are growing up and doing it unmolested. There is a reason parents are extremely protective of their kids these days. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . M????? <IAM@onewiththegoddess.org> wrote: >>>>I mentioned over exercising my arms and injuring my elbow >>>>tendons. That was part of a deliberate experiment to see how fast I [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >>a result these children are growing up phyically incompetent, clumsy, >>unable to assess physical risk, unfit, and overweight. > but at least those kids are growing up and doing it unmolested. There > is a reason parents are extremely protective of their kids these days. There's less child murder, kidnapping, molestation, etc., than there used to be when we were children, but people like reading about it so much that there's far more sensationalist reporting of the fewer cases that do happen. So the credulous and uneducated now see pedophiles on every street corner. Is that what you mean? SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] >>>>I mentioned over exercising my arms and injuring my elbow >>>>tendons. That was part of a deliberate experiment to see how fast I [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >but at least those kids are growing up and doing it unmolested. There >is a reason parents are extremely protective of their kids these days. I HOPE you're being ironic. Actual child molestors are an order of magnitude rarer than the numbers of those unjustly accused (mainly by divorce lawyers) plus the majority of actual abuse is familial (and not just in Austria). The only abuser I know I met was not technically a pedophile as he only abused one of his daughters. The reason he could get away wirh it was because of his impeccable middle class credentials, plus he was On The Square with anyone who might have investigated him, so she never told anyone until after he was dead. Even in death he remained protected, he died of a heart attack during an argument with his prospective future son in law, who was arrested for attempted murder. The current witchhunts reminded me horribly of a recent documentary about homosexuality in the fifties. They do nothing about the actual genuine problem but make bigots feel better about themselves. > The only abuser I know I met was not technically a pedophile as he only > abused one of his daughters. There's a minimum # of abuse victims before you can be called a pedophile??? bj bj wrote in message ... >> The only abuser I know I met was not technically a pedophile as he only >> abused one of his daughters. > >There's a minimum # of abuse victims before you can be called a pedophile??? >bj ?????? good question. :-( Cheri On Fri, 9 May 2008 11:22:05 -0700, in <Dr6dnT_iq8bqC7nVnZ2dnUVZ_ozinZ2d@softcom.net> "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote: >bj wrote in message ... >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >?????? good question. :-( Yeah, I'm like WHAAAT? He's a rapist. He committed incest. He is a pedophile. And, how is it that you KNOW he only abused once? Most are multiple abusers. Folks, I'm lost. ?? Signature: ^> DonnaB Yahoo Msgr: shallotpeel <*> http://tinyurl.co.uk/h193 http://tinyurl.co.uk/wdp8 http://tinyurl.co.uk/byv9 "Don't get too close to people in comas. Sometimes they wake up and try to choke you." - Soaps 101 >On Fri, 9 May 2008 11:22:05 -0700, in ><Dr6dnT_iq8bqC7nVnZ2dnUVZ_ozinZ2d@softcom.net> "Cheri" [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Folks, I'm lost. ?? AFAIK he had no actual sexual interest in other chlidren, not his other daughter either, it was a control freak thing. the witches, er I mean pedophiles, portrayed in the media are usually serial offenders. On Sun, 11 May 2008 19:10:31 +0100, in <ccde245vpfe27j0mu03k0uo124uts1dkln@4ax.com> Trinkwasser <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote: >>On Fri, 9 May 2008 11:22:05 -0700, in >><Dr6dnT_iq8bqC7nVnZ2dnUVZ_ozinZ2d@softcom.net> "Cheri" [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >AFAIK he had no actual sexual interest in other chlidren, not his >other daughter either, it was a control freak thing. Pedophiles & rapists don't have sexual interest in the way that you do. It is VERY often an issue of power. They may or may not get sexual gratification from resolving that need to release the urge to have power over someone else. You seem to be presuming that this guy you knew was being truthful with you. Why? And, you also seem to be letting him off the hook because his wrong actions toward one daughter came out of a motive for control, which is a common motive for pedophiles & rapists. >the witches, er I mean pedophiles, portrayed in the media are usually >serial offenders. You'll note that I said above that most are multiple abusers. There's no witch hunt for pedophiles on in the USA. There are people who have that kind of witch hunt mentality, in the USA, against Wiccans, atheists, gays & lesbians, bisexuals, hedonists, etc. People who impose their will on others are wrong. Unfortunately all too often people look away from it and/or it's impossible for the victims to receive any semblance of justice. I mean, why do pedophiles come up so often in this group? And, who defends pedophiles?!! SignatureDonnaB shallotpeel : ^> USA <*> new WIN Vista user 06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 HbA1c 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg Current ................... HbA1c 6.3 "'You could move.' - Abigail Van Buren, 'Dear Abby,' to a reader who complained about a gay couple moving in across the street & wanted to know what he could do to improve the quality of the neighborhood >On Sun, 11 May 2008 19:10:31 +0100, in ><ccde245vpfe27j0mu03k0uo124uts1dkln@4ax.com> Trinkwasser [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >You seem to be presuming that this guy you knew was being truthful with you. >Why? No no, I knew nothing about this while he was still alive, no-one did, she never told anyone. At first glance he was an affable hail-fellow-well-met kinda guy, when you knew him better he was somewhat of a control freak and obsessed with image over substance. The rest of the story never came out until after his death. *Then* other people could understand things about him they'd only half realised. >And, you also seem to be letting him off the hook because his wrong actions >toward one daughter came out of a motive for control, which is a common motive >for pedophiles & rapists. No I'm NOT letting genuine pedophiles and rapists off the hook, just getting annoyed at the meeja assumptions which lead to the guilty until proved innocent frame of mind, which is EXACTLY what stops the real deal from being caught while innocent folks are persecuted. >>the witches, er I mean pedophiles, portrayed in the media are usually >>serial offenders. > >You'll note that I said above that most are multiple abusers. > >There's no witch hunt for pedophiles on in the USA. You obviously have some major differences in your society vs. ours, for example you have ten times the population density of psychopaths. We actually have very few serial pedophiles, much of what *actually* occurs here is interfamilial. Pedophiles do NOT lurk on every street corner and are a vanishingly small threat compared to the media scare stories which have resulted in pediatricians being firebombed (yes really, dyslexic vigilantes), people with similar names or appearances to known pedophiles being hospitalised, and simultaneously *actual* offenders being serially let off by the Police who were too busy investigating non-offenders. >There are people who have that kind of witch hunt mentality, in the USA, >against Wiccans, atheists, gays & lesbians, bisexuals, hedonists, etc. Yes that's my point, once guilty until proved innocent becomes accepted who will be the next target group? >No I'm NOT letting genuine pedophiles and rapists off the hook, just >getting annoyed at the meeja assumptions which lead to the guilty >until proved innocent frame of mind, which is EXACTLY what stops the >real deal from being caught while innocent folks are persecuted. an adult who has sex in any form with even 1 child is a pedophile and deserve to be locked away forever. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . > On Sun, 11 May 2008 19:29:34 -0400, DonnaB shallotpeel > ><ccde245vpfe27j0mu03k0uo124uts1dkln@4ax.com> Trinkwasser [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Yes that's my point, once guilty until proved innocent becomes > accepted who will be the next target group? "When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for the Jews, I remained silent; I wasn't a Jew. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out." "Als sie die Kommunisten geholt haben, habe ich geschwiegen. - denn ich war ja kein Kommunist. Als sie die Sozialisten und Gewerkschafter geholt haben, habe ich geschwiegen. - denn ich war ja keins von beiden. Als sie die Juden geholt haben, habe ich geschwiegen. - denn ich war ja kein Jude. Als sie mich geholt haben, hat es niemanden mehr gegeben, der protestieren konnte." Pastor Martin Niemöller, imprisoned in 1937 by the Nazis, eventually at Sachsenhausen and Dachau concentration camps. SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >> On Sun, 11 May 2008 19:29:34 -0400, DonnaB shallotpeel >> ><ccde245vpfe27j0mu03k0uo124uts1dkln@4ax.com> Trinkwasser [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >Pastor Martin Niemöller, imprisoned in 1937 by the Nazis, eventually at >Sachsenhausen and Dachau concentration camps. I believe that, and of course I have it in my quote files. But, it has NOTHING to do with pedophilia. Signature: ^> DonnaB Yahoo Msgr: shallotpeel <*> http://tinyurl.co.uk/h193 http://tinyurl.co.uk/wdp8 http://tinyurl.co.uk/byv9 "Homosexuality is a worldwide economic fact. In poor countries - like Morocco and parts of Italy - it's one of the big industries, one of the main ways in which a young boy can get somewhere" - William S. Burroughs On Mon, 12 May 2008 18:45:22 +0100, in <4kvg24123chisi0rdfusvntn8edacqb0t9@4ax.com> Trinkwasser <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote: >>On Sun, 11 May 2008 19:10:31 +0100, in >><ccde245vpfe27j0mu03k0uo124uts1dkln@4ax.com> Trinkwasser [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >after his death. *Then* other people could understand things about him >they'd only half realised. So, you don't really know if he had any other victims or not. Not that more than one is required! >>And, you also seem to be letting him off the hook because his wrong actions >>toward one daughter came out of a motive for control, which is a common motive [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >until proved innocent frame of mind, which is EXACTLY what stops the >real deal from being caught while innocent folks are persecuted. In the USA the media is doing no such thing. And, believe me that is not what keeps perpetrators from being caught! Certainly when there are cases of false accusation, of all kinds for any reasons, they are terrible, but they are statistically not even a fraction of the numbers of unreported cases of rape & pedophilia. >>>the witches, er I mean pedophiles, portrayed in the media are usually >>>serial offenders. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >offenders being serially let off by the Police who were too busy >investigating non-offenders. I'm talking about in the USA, oh, and in other countries of the world, too. But, know that it doesn't make it okay that it is interfamlial. There are incredible statistic world wide on pedophilia, rape, child pornography where the adults involved are either family or someone the children know 'as if' family. >>There are people who have that kind of witch hunt mentality, in the USA, >>against Wiccans, atheists, gays & lesbians, bisexuals, hedonists, etc. > >Yes that's my point, once guilty until proved innocent becomes >accepted who will be the next target group? No, that can't be your point because those people are not guilty of anything & the people with the witch hunt mentality are the fringe crazies, who can only act out their hatred by breaking some law. Signature: ^> DonnaB Yahoo Msgr: shallotpeel <*> http://tinyurl.co.uk/h193 http://tinyurl.co.uk/wdp8 http://tinyurl.co.uk/byv9 "Homosexuality is god's way of insuring that the truly gifted aren't burdened with children." - Sam Austin >>On Fri, 9 May 2008 11:22:05 -0700, in >><Dr6dnT_iq8bqC7nVnZ2dnUVZ_ozinZ2d@softcom.net> "Cheri" [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >AFAIK he had no actual sexual interest in other chlidren, not his >other daughter either, it was a control freak thing. no sh.t, imagine that, a sex crime is about power and control, who would have ever figured that one out? oh wait, every sane adult for the past 100 years and more. sex crimes are always about power and control. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . > On Wed, 07 May 2008 18:26:04 -0400, Màck©® <IAM@OneWithTheGoddess.org> > >On 7 May 2008 10:42:11 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> > >>> On 6 May 2008 01:35:38 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> [ . . . ] > The current witchhunts reminded me horribly of a recent documentary > about homosexuality in the fifties. They do nothing about the actual > genuine problem but make bigots feel better about themselves. I'm first reminded of the Salem Witch Trials in 1692, then of the McMartin case. The McMartin preschool trial was a day care sexual abuse case of the 1980s. Members of the McMartin family, who operated a preschool in California, were charged with numerous acts of sexual abuse of children in their care. After six years of criminal trials, no convictions were obtained, and all charges were dropped in 1990. It was the longest and most expensive criminal trial of its time.[1][2] Accusations were made in 1983. Arrests and the pretrial investigation ran from 1984 to 1987, and the trial ran from 1987 to 1990. The kids were spoon-fed preposterous allegations, to which they responded as kids. After six years of criminal investigations and trial, no convictions were obtained, and all charges were dropped in 1990. The McMartin family, like many falsely accused, were ruined. But it was good press! SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >> On Wed, 07 May 2008 18:26:04 -0400, Màck©® <IAM@OneWithTheGoddess.org> >> >On 7 May 2008 10:42:11 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >The McMartin family, like many falsely accused, were ruined. But it was >good press! A whole bunch of kids in Orkney or somewhere were kidnapped from their parents, locked away and subjected to having their a.ses poked with fingers by total strangers and being told their parents were in fact abusing them and did not love them. The strangers concerned were actually Social Workers. No parents were ever found to have actually abused ANY of the children, AFAICR someone has made allegations of Satanic Abuse which was what set it off. Poor little sods must have been traumatised. Yes you can see what I mean, witchhunts find witches NOT perpetrators. Meanwhile who gains from the current witchunt? Sales of fast foods computer games DVDs and all the things the kids do when they're not let out of doors. Then later manufacturers of diabetes drugs, and ammunition for the guns when they go postal. Yes of course I'm exaggerating but HOW MUCH??? On Fri, 09 May 2008 18:39:35 +0100, in <qk2924lla36uifpfaih9areujdhaltc5ho@4ax.com> Trinkwasser <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote: >>but at least those kids are growing up and doing it unmolested. There >>is a reason parents are extremely protective of their kids these days. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >about homosexuality in the fifties. They do nothing about the actual >genuine problem but make bigots feel better about themselves. What bigots? Signature: ^> DonnaB Yahoo Msgr: shallotpeel <*> http://tinyurl.co.uk/h193 http://tinyurl.co.uk/wdp8 http://tinyurl.co.uk/byv9 "If you get fired, get drunk." - Soaps 101 >What bigots? Witchunts catch witches not perpetrators. In my lifetime the current witches have been homosexuals, Teddy boys, dope smoking hippies, single mothers and currently pedophiles and Polish immigrants. In another 50 years homosexuality will be illegal again, one thing on which your Taliban and the Islamic one agree. This will be to protect your chilldrunnuh from eeeviluh. Meanwhile parents and disreputable uncles (of which I used to be one) will come under increasing suspicion, real pedophiles will continue to do what they do, and infinitely more children will be killed and maimed by motor vehicles and their fellow children, Is there anything wrong with this picture? >>What bigots? > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >maimed by motor vehicles and their fellow children, Is there anything >wrong with this picture? yea, it's all bullshit. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . The >only abuser I know I met was not technically a pedophile as he only >abused one of his daughters. molest one child and the perp is in fact a pedophile. There is no gray area on that one. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . >> Some of us will continue to watch with a mixture of admiration and >> trepidation. That is our nature. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >unreasonable to suppose that probably played a part in my successful >recovery. G'day G'day Chris, I'm greatly impressed with your proactive approach to these matters. I can't imagine many people even thinking about doing anything towards recovering adrenal capacity let alone having a plan to change what fate had in store. It's most inspirational. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin BettyB quote: > "I have noticed even people who claim everything is > predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, > look before they cross the road." - Stephen Hawking That's because they're predestined to look-- and you're predestined to notice. :-) SignatureWes Groleau "Beware the barrenness of a busy life." -- George Verwer |
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