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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2008Simvastatin reduces insulin sensitivity in people with high cholesterol
Simvastatin Reduces Insulin Sensitivity in Patients With High Cholesterol Although simvastatin improves flow-mediated dilation in hypercholesterolemic patients, the drug reduces adiponectin levels and insulin sensitivity, according to a report in the April issue of Diabetes Care. These effects were not dose-dependent and also did not relate to the magnitude of apolipoprotein B reduction. In earlier studies, Dr. Kwang Kon Koh and colleagues had shown that certain drugs, such as fenofibrate and candesartan, increase levels of adiponectin, a cytokine secreted by fat cells, and enhance insulin sensitivity. Conversely, in another study, the team found evidence that simvastatin has exactly the opposite effect. To explore this further, the researchers assessed adiponectin levels and insulin sensitivity in 156 hypercholesterolemic patients who were randomized to receive placebo or simvastatin at one of four doses (10, 20, 40 or 80 mg) during a 2-month period. In addition, flow-mediated dilation was assessed in all subjects using standard measures. As anticipated, simvastatin use reduced total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, and apolipoprotein B levels, Dr. Koh, from Gachon University in Incheon, Korea, and colleagues note. In addition, the drug improved flow-mediated dilation. By contrast, relative to baseline or placebo, simvastatin reduced adiponectin levels and insulin sensitivity, independent of the dose or the drop in apolipoprotein B level. "Because of reciprocal relationships between endothelial dysfunction and insulin resistance, we hypothesized that improvements in endothelial dysfunction may be accompanied by simultaneous improvement in metabolic parameters," the authors note. This, however, was not the case. The findings "suggest that not all mechanisms for improving endothelial dysfunction are tightly coupled to metabolic homeostasis," they add. Diabetes Care 2008;31:776-782. > x-no-archive: yes <read and snipped> Could this be the reason why my control is worsening? >>x-no-archive: yes > > <read and snipped> > > Could this be the reason why my control is worsening? I don't know, Julie, but maybe it's possible. Statins are adrenal suppressive, and so are higher insulin levels. My experience is that when my adrenals are suppressed, they overreact by shooting out even more cortisol, which shoots up my bg. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > my adrenals are suppressed, they overreact by shooting out even more > cortisol, which shoots up my bg. My numbers certainly did go up when I was put on it. I remember fighting not to be put on it because my overall cholesterol was not high, but I lost that one with my Drs. >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >not to be put on it because my overall cholesterol was not high, but I lost >that one with my Drs. Try again with the endo, when he bothers to show? Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >>> x-no-archive: yes >>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Try again with the endo, when he bothers to show? He's the one that put me on it. :( >>> x-no-archive: yes >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > D&E, 100ug thyroxine > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 As a point of reference, I "win" every difference of opinion I have with my docs. They can't "make" me do anything ;-) cheers Paul >>>> x-no-archive: yes >>>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > As a point of reference, I "win" every difference of opinion > I have with my docs. They can't "make" me do anything ;-) But you're a guy. Drs. seem not to listen to women. I've even had women Drs. who didn't want to listen. If I bring my husband in and have him do the talking, they listen. *sigh* That doesn't happen here..in fact when hubby was first diagnosed with cancer he asked me to go to the surgeon with him...the surgeon spent all his time talking to me and in turn I explained it to hubby:) Then after his surgery he had me go to his urologist oncologist so I could get the chemo info and explain it to hubby. I have come up to some surgeons that have the "God" complex....they just piss me of :) When I was pregnant with my first, I remember my OB told me to write questions down and bring them to him the next visit and 18 year old me told him they would probably be stupid questions..and he said there are no stupid questions..and he suggested that when I went to any Dr to write questions down before I go, and if I could speak them then just give the Dr the note. That advise has stayed with me for over 38 years and I still write down questions...no it's because I would probably forget them if I didn't write them down...LOL. Maybe you can do that and present the note to your Dr. ...or give it to his nurse to give to him for you before he comes into the room. I found out today that tricare will now send your referrals to your e-mail..well it really is e-mail that points you to the site where you pick it up. Jacquie >>>>> x-no-archive: yes >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Drs. who didn't want to listen. If I bring my husband in and have him do > the talking, they listen. *sigh* > That doesn't happen here..in fact when hubby was first diagnosed with > cancer he asked me to go to the surgeon with him...the surgeon spent all [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > e-mail..well it really is e-mail that points you to the site where you > pick it up. I don't have to get referrals with the type of Tricare I have. As for the notes, I have tried that and was told by one Dr. not to do that. Grrr... Still haven't heard back from my Endo. I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that his voice mail is broken or something. Will call back tomorrow. Am feeling most unwell now having spent the past few hours >300. I don't get it. Have eaten very little today, carbs or otherwise. Husband went hog wild on the food I *would* have eaten so there wasn't much to eat until after I went to the store this evening. Plenty of food in the house. Just not stuff that was suitable for me. >But you're a guy. Drs. seem not to listen to women. I've even had women >Drs. who didn't want to listen. If I bring my husband in and have him do >the talking, they listen. *sigh* Personally I've never had a gender issue like that *but* I know it does happen. I just learned a big lesson that I have to be an advocate for my own health & if I am too sick to be, then someone else must be with me to be my advocate.  SignatureDonnaB shallotpeel : ^> USA <*> new WIN Vista user 06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 HbA1c 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg Current ................... HbA1c 6.3 Tree Pollen: 04/08-2655; 04/09-2787; 04/10-2805; 04/11-3238; 04/14-3327; 04/15-117; 04/16-149; 04/17-348; 04/18-694; 04/21-419 "You can never go too far." - Taglines for Donnie Darko (2001) Hi Julie, I know some docs don't like patients thinking for themselves, but what if you did a trial and quit taking the simvastatin for a couple three weeks and see what effect it has on your numbers? SignatureBest regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise BMI 21.5 >>>>> x-no-archive: yes >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Drs. who didn't want to listen. If I bring my husband in and have him do > the talking, they listen. *sigh* > Hi Julie, > > I know some docs don't like patients thinking for themselves, but what if > you did a trial and quit taking the simvastatin for a couple three weeks > and see what effect it has on your numbers? How would I know? They only test my cholesterol like once a year. > How would I know? They only test my cholesterol like once a year. See if it changes other things, like your symptoms, how well you feel, and, after a few weeks, maybe your bg patterns. Lowering LDL makes less available for the body to produce adrenal steroids, all of which are made from LDL. Your body may be reacting badly to that. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > available for the body to produce adrenal steroids, all of which are made > from LDL. Your body may be reacting badly to that. I never had any symptoms before or after. Might be affecting BG though. >> Hi Julie, >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >How would I know? They only test my cholesterol like once a year. You know what your daily/whatever BG numbers are. That's one comparison. Signature: ^> DonnaB Yahoo Msgr: shallotpeel <*> http://tinyurl.co.uk/h193 http://tinyurl.co.uk/wdp8 http://tinyurl.co.uk/byv9 º Why isn't there another word for thesaurus? >>> Hi Julie, >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > You know what your daily/whatever BG numbers are. That's one comparison. They are all over the map. I don't think anyone could tell from that. I just tested before dinner and it was 367. Not good. But I am also having hypos and normal numbers. Oddly the numbers have gone up since starting the lantus and stopping the Januvia. I didn't think the Januvia was helping. But maybe it was? > "Michelle C" <bookbug1@frys.com> wrote in message > > Hi Julie, > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > How would I know? They only test my cholesterol like once a year. That sucks! I see my Diabetician every three months. He does complete blood tests on me each time and I get a copy. I see my Cardiologist annualy. He does the same. SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >> "Michelle C" <bookbug1@frys.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > tests on me each time and I get a copy. I see my Cardiologist annualy. He > does the same. Why would you need it done so frequently? > Why would you need it done so frequently? Lipids and HbA1c are typically checked every three months, Julie, for monitoring control and treatment progress. And ALWAYS after a new med is introduced, IME. Susan >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >monitoring control and treatment progress. And ALWAYS after a new med is >introduced, IME. I really cannot imagine putting someone on a statin & then not checking their lipids every quarter. Signature: ^> DonnaB Yahoo Msgr: shallotpeel <*> http://tinyurl.co.uk/h193 http://tinyurl.co.uk/wdp8 http://tinyurl.co.uk/byv9 "Anytime I see a person fleeing from reason & into religion, I think to myself, there goes a person who cannot stand being so goddamned lonely anymore." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. [Nov 11, 1922-Apr 11, 2007] >>x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > their > lipids every quarter. I was only checked after I was put on the med and then yearly. Maybe that's all my insurance will pay for? Dunno. I know they were getting annoyed because I was having too many A1cs done. My Endo. would do it and then a couple of weeks later my GP would do it or vice versa. >>x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > their > lipids every quarter. Not to mention their liver enzymes. SignatureBest regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise BMI 21.5 >>>x-no-archive: yes >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Not to mention their liver enzymes. LOL, indeed!! SignatureDonnaB shallotpeel : ^> USA <*> new WIN Vista user 06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 HbA1c 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg Current ................... HbA1c 6.3 >>x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >I really cannot imagine putting someone on a statin & then not checking their >lipids every quarter. The latest crap money-saving ploy here is that once you're on a statin they never check your lipids again I'm going to have to do some arm-twisting to get mine done at my next annual check (yes *annual* my control is too good to be checked out three or six monthly - and it's all *your* fault, everyone here) >>>x-no-archive: yes >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >(yes *annual* my control is too good to be checked out three or six >monthly - and it's all *your* fault, everyone here) I know you'd be too honest to drink a can of coke just before your annual "fasting" glucose test or to add a full English Breakfast to give some interesting gl,ucose and lipid results that may qualify you for metformin, more regular tests, other treatments etc...no, you'd never be sly enough for that... Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Valderee, Valderah. Or, I love To Go A-wandering... >>>>x-no-archive: yes >>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >regular tests, other treatments etc...no, you'd never be sly >enough for that... I just might now that they've started limiting repeat prescriptions. So far they've forced mother to run out of her felodipine and now her mesalazine <sigh> I was a bit surprised to find all my repeats ready for me when I went down today since I'd ordered them a few days early. I told her to make an emergency appointment but she doesn't want to trouble the doctor. I just might want to trouble her on her behalf. OTOH I quite like to be left alone to get on with stuff without interruption, but if they're going to insist on treating us like idiots anyway where's my motivation for not acting like one? : I just might now that they've started limiting repeat prescriptions. : So far they've forced mother to run out of her felodipine and now her : mesalazine <sigh> I was a bit surprised to find all my repeats ready : for me when I went down today since I'd ordered them a few days early. : I told her to make an emergency appointment but she doesn't want to : trouble the doctor. I just might want to trouble her on her behalf. : OTOH I quite like to be left alone to get on with stuff without : interruption, but if they're going to insist on treating us like : idiots anyway where's my motivation for not acting like one? Can't you call your (or your Mother's doctor's office to request new prescriptions? Here, in NYC , I can do that and a prescrption with refills is good for a year. Wendy >: I just might now that they've started limiting repeat prescriptions. >: So far they've forced mother to run out of her felodipine and now her [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >prescriptions? Here, in NYC , I can do that and a prescrption with >refills is good for a year. No it doesn't work like that here, we get a "repeat prescription" for monthly quantities and up until now all we do is drop the slip at the pharmacy each month and go back about a week later to collect the items - the pharmacy sends the slips to the doctor and gets the actual prescription in return. This can go on in perpetuity but we are supposed to go in annually for a "prescription review" What's happening now is that the doctor - or clerk - decides when we reorder too early they will either send only some or none of the items or delay them until later, or cancel the repeat altogether, purely it seems at random, which means we now have no clue what she has or has not reordered (and the pharmacist now has to search the entire shelf for each patient instead of simply picking up the bag, because there may be half a dozen different items in half a dozen different bags picked on half a dozen different days) I could ring the doctor's secretary and get a callback (they set aside so many slots per day for phone calls in between the patient consults) but if they're going to annoy me and waste my time they're going to get the same straight back <fume> I think she's getting a gout flare up again so I'll have to take her in anyway before her booked appointment in three weeks time. Bloody Deputy Chief Assistant Undermanagers, trust them to screw up a system that has been working well for the last few years. >What's happening now is that the doctor - or clerk - decides when we >reorder too early they will either send only some or none of the items [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >may be half a dozen different items in half a dozen different bags >picked on half a dozen different days) Make an appointment with the practice manager and discuss the process breakdown with her. These people are usually managers rather than medicos, so are often basing decisions on medical matters on incorrect premises - like what an acceptable failure rate is. Understanding what the impact of what's going on to you and your mother might be completely new - and important - information to her. Also, you can generally make an appointment in advance, rather than pratting around the medisec's games. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >>What's happening now is that the doctor - or clerk - decides when we >>reorder too early they will either send only some or none of the items [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >generally make an appointment in advance, rather than pratting around >the medisec's games. Actually I'm in the process of writing to the GP since she is so comparatively reasonable, I'm putting in some stuff from my background in stock/production control vis a vis the downside of just-in-time and how it only works when you add just-in-case I dunno if it's a local thing or a centralised thing that's being rolled out here but from what the pharmacy staff have told me it's to do with stopping patients "over-ordering", I'm making the point that there may be a point in targeting the patients that are actually guilty but assuming guilt and punishing the majority for the sins of the minority will have consequences that should have been foreseen (At the end of the day I've had this battle with pointy-haired managers before, when done properly we were able to greatly reduce the inventory by introducing a slick purchasing system but in another firm when carried out to excess we lost customers and went from being a world leader to an also-ran which changed hands about four times after I left in disgust) : Actually I'm in the process of writing to the GP since she is so : comparatively reasonable, I'm putting in some stuff from my background : in stock/production control vis a vis the downside of just-in-time and : how it only works when you add just-in-case : I dunno if it's a local thing or a centralised thing that's being : rolled out here but from what the pharmacy staff have told me it's to : do with stopping patients "over-ordering", I'm making the point that : there may be a point in targeting the patients that are actually : guilty but assuming guilt and punishing the majority for the sins of : the minority will have consequences that should have been foreseen : (At the end of the day I've had this battle with pointy-haired : managers before, when done properly we were able to greatly reduce the : inventory by introducing a slick purchasing system but in another firm : when carried out to excess we lost customers and went from being a : world leader to an also-ran which changed hands about four times after : I left in disgust) I deal with a mail-order 90 day company that my drug plan requires us to deal with (Express scripts). On each bottle, there is a reorder AFTER*** date, which is some two months plus from the date you are aild the med. This shoudl reduce over-ordering. In fct, if you need the med sooner(say you are ging on a vacation and need t have enough before you leave) it can get difficult, with lots of phoning to get permission and exceptions. this, I suppose, is to prevent rouutine over-ordering. Each persription last for a year, so you get 3 refills after you get your first 90 day supply sent Wendy > [ . . . ] > I deal with a mail-order 90 day company that my drug plan requires us to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > last for a year, so you get 3 refills after you get your first 90 day > supply sent That's the way Cigna's Tel-Drug is. The only difference is that I have no problem getting vacation over-rides if I have enough refills left. SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >: Actually I'm in the process of writing to the GP since she is so >: comparatively reasonable, I'm putting in some stuff from my background [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >last for a year, so you get 3 refills after you get your first 90 day >supply sent This sounds like what they're trying to bring in, except the prescriptions are per month, the problem is the reorder dates are too close to the run out and panic dates, so not only are vacations a problem but for people who can only get to the pharmacy at weekends they are inevitable going to run out monthly. Even going in twice a week instead of once a week is proving to be a crapshoot. Our BLOODY NHS is learning from your HMOs I'll swear, we're going to end up with the worst of both systems. > On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:42:38 +0000 (UTC), "W. Baker" > > [ . . . ] > I think she's getting a gout flare up again so I'll have to take her > in anyway before her booked appointment in three weeks time. Does your Mum take Allopurinol for the gout? SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:42:38 +0000 (UTC), "W. Baker" >> > [ . . . ] >> I think she's getting a gout flare up again so I'll have to take her >> in anyway before her booked appointment in three weeks time. > >Does your Mum take Allopurinol for the gout? She's just started. I can't remember if she had been on it before, but until recently she hadn't had gout for years and then it was drug-induced. It's not impossible the Allopurinol is to blame, it can worsen the symptoms initially. On the other hand it may just be that she's wearing out . . . >>> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:42:38 +0000 (UTC), "W. Baker" >>> > [ . . . ] [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > On the other hand it may just be that she's wearing out . . . I saved a few web sites related to gout recently: http://www.ukgoutsociety.org/ <http://www.britishdalmatianclub.org.uk/downloads/Purine%20Table%202003.htm> >>>> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:42:38 +0000 (UTC), "W. Baker" >>>> > [ . . . ] [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > ><http://www.britishdalmatianclub.org.uk/downloads/Purine%20Table%202003.htm> Oh yes that purines table is good, I printed it out for mother, and when I write to the GP I will point her to it. (for some reason Firefox would only print out one page with the edge clipped but I pasted it into Open Office and printed it in a large friendly font) I found a few more sites on gout then stopped as the information is mostly similar from site to site, unlike with diabetes. > <robertmiles@bellsouthNOSPAM.net> wrote: > >"Trinkwasser" <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > clipped but I pasted it into Open Office and printed it in a large > friendly font) Trink, were you then able to print out the entire table? SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >> <robertmiles@bellsouthNOSPAM.net> wrote: >> >"Trinkwasser" <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Trink, were you then able to print out the entire table? Yes it copied and pasted OK, just needed some tidying up. AFAICR ctrl-A ctrl-C then I pasted it into the spreadsheet and altered the font and the column widths around to make it more aesthetically pleasing. As you do. > : I just might now that they've started limiting repeat prescriptions. > : So far they've forced mother to run out of her felodipine and now her [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > prescriptions? Here, in NYC , I can do that and a prescrption with > refills is good for a year. Ditto in California, where my doctor sends me a three month Rx with three refills. SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ Hi Trinkwasser: >>>>Why would you need it done so frequently? >>> >>>Lipids and HbA1c are typically checked every three months, Julie, for >>>monitoring control and treatment progress. And ALWAYS after a new med is >>>introduced, IME. I suspect that the more general practice for newly diagnosed type 2 diabetics is to test A1c every quarter and after reduction below 7% to test every 6 months. My lipids and liver enzymes have been tested regularly every 6 months. One doctor gave me an atypical lipidemia dx and it seems to have sticked although my trigs have been under 60 mg/dl and HDL >60 mg/dl for 6 years. It seems as though regression in arterial plaque can occur with LDL <80 mg/dl. I have tested at near or below that level a few times. Dr. Steven Nissen et al, Cleveland Clinic have studied "High Prevalence of Coronary Atherosclerosis in Asymptomatic Teenagers and Young Adults" - http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/103/22/2705. "Although patients with coronary artery disease typically become symptomatic after age 40 years, necropsy studies have demonstrated that atherosclerotic changes in the vessel wall begin early in life." We can be well on our way to hardening of the arteries at a young age. >>I really cannot imagine putting someone on a statin & then not checking their >>lipids every quarter. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > (yes *annual* my control is too good to be checked out three or six > monthly - and it's all *your* fault, everyone here) It does take some arm-twisting to get some tests like the ApoA/ApoB ratio. Frank > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > monitoring control and treatment progress. And ALWAYS after a new med is > introduced, IME. From what I have read about lab tests they are usually only tested yearly. >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >From what I have read about lab tests they are usually only tested yearly. About people who are taking a statin? Diabetic meds? Or who have any other illness or disease or syndrome that calls for monitoring more than just an annual physical? I've never read that, or experienced that. Signature: ^> DonnaB Yahoo Msgr: shallotpeel <*> http://tinyurl.co.uk/h193 http://tinyurl.co.uk/wdp8 http://tinyurl.co.uk/byv9 "And, whether she fulfills her life's ambition or not, she can already lay claim to being the first woman ever considered a serious contender for the presidency." - Christopher Andersen, AMERICAN EVITA, Preface, 2nd line >>> x-no-archive: yes >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > illness or disease or syndrome that calls for monitoring more than just an > annual physical? I've never read that, or experienced that. In general, cholesterol tests are done yearly. I think I just read it in one of the diabetes books but I don't remember which one. >>>> x-no-archive: yes >>>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >In general, cholesterol tests are done yearly. I think I just read it in >one of the diabetes books but I don't remember which one. In general, for people who are not on cholesterol meds or in the general population with fine cholesterol? Never heard it, of it, read it, etc. EXCEPT annually for people not being treated for bad lipids. SignatureDonnaB shallotpeel : ^> USA <*> new WIN Vista user 06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 HbA1c 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg Current ................... HbA1c 6.3 >>>>> x-no-archive: yes >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Never heard it, of it, read it, etc. EXCEPT annually for people not being > treated for bad lipids. Hmmm... >>>>> x-no-archive: yes >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Never heard it, of it, read it, etc. EXCEPT annually for people not being > treated for bad lipids. http://cholesterol.about.com/cs/gettingtested/a/howoften.htm > "DonnaB shallotpeel" <shallotpeel@comcast.net> wrote in message > > On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:36:26 GMT, "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > http://cholesterol.about.com/cs/gettingtested/a/howoften.htm Julie, the web site clearly says, "For individuals taking prescription medications to control cholesterol levels, like statin drugs, may need to get their cholesterol tested at least twice a year to not only check cholesterol levels, but to also check liver function." . . . AT LEAST twice a year! You have several other physical complications as well, so, at least twice a year would not seem unreasonable. SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >> "DonnaB shallotpeel" <shallotpeel@comcast.net> wrote in message >> > On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:36:26 GMT, "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > least > twice a year would not seem unreasonable. Oops! I guess I missed that part. > In general, cholesterol tests are done yearly. I think I just read it in > one of the diabetes books but I don't remember which one. Julie, I think you're confusing screening tests to find problems, which are yearly, with monitoring tests, to assess treatment results, which are quarterly as a rule, same as A1c. Susan : >>> x-no-archive: yes : >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] : > illness or disease or syndrome that calls for monitoring more than just an : > annual physical? I've never read that, or experienced that. : In general, cholesterol tests are done yearly. I think I just read it in : one of the diabetes books but I don't remember which one. Medicare permits them twice a year for diabetics. Wendy > From what I have read about lab tests they are usually only tested yearly. Never in my experience in any medical office for decades, once abnormalities showed up. Always 3 mos. with any diet or med changes. Susan > "Nick Cramer" <n_cramerSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message > >> "Michelle C" <bookbug1@frys.com> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Why would you need it done so frequently? I'm 73. I've got HBP, heart disease, liver and kidney impairment. He's very proactive. "Nip it in the bud!", "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!", etc. When he suspects a problem, he orders additional tests, sends me to a specialist, etc. SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >> "Nick Cramer" <n_cramerSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message >> >> "Michelle C" <bookbug1@frys.com> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > of cure!", etc. When he suspects a problem, he orders additional tests, > sends me to a specialist, etc. I see. In your case it might be warranted then. >> I'm 73. I've got HBP, heart disease, liver and kidney impairment. He's >> very [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I see. In your case it might be warranted then. It may also be warranted for someone who has wild BG fluctuations and is on a statin, among other things - or who may even possibly have Orthorexia Nervosa:-) Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Valderee, Valderah. Or, I love To Go A-wandering... > "Nick Cramer" <n_cramerSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message > >> "Nick Cramer" <n_cramerSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > I see. In your case it might be warranted then. Yup! I'm goal oriented. I've been married for 18 years and I wanna be around for my 50th Anniversary in 2040! ;-D SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >> Hi Julie, >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > How would I know? They only test my cholesterol like once a year. Hi Julie, I was actually referring to your glucose numbers; not the cholesterol numbers. SignatureBest regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise BMI 21.5 >>> Hi Julie, >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I was actually referring to your glucose numbers; not the cholesterol > numbers. They're all aver the place. >>>>> x-no-archive: yes >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >Drs. who didn't want to listen. If I bring my husband in and have him do >the talking, they listen. *sigh* What method does he employ to force the pills down your throat? A large funnel? A water hose? Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. >>>>>> x-no-archive: yes >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > What method does he employ to force the pills down your > throat? A large funnel? A water hose? He doesn't do that. He is just very firm when handing me the prescription and tells me to take them. I have stopped taking allergy pills and have no qualms in doing that. I don't consider them necessary. I don't feel this is the same thing though. I remember fighting > not to be put on it because my overall cholesterol was not high, but I lost > that one with my Drs. How is it possible to lose, just say no and don't take it if you don't want to. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > How is it possible to lose, just say no and don't take it if you don't > want to. I suppose I could have done that but then I would run the risk of him not being my Dr. any more. My former GP said not to come back if I refused to get a mammogram. > I suppose I could have done that but then I would run the risk of him not > being my Dr. any more. My former GP said not to come back if I refused to > get a mammogram. Julie, anyone who demands that you abandon your role as decision maker in your own health care does not have your best interests at heart. Susan > > I suppose I could have done that but then I would run the risk of him > > not being my Dr. any more. My former GP said not to come back if I > > refused to get a mammogram. > > > Julie, anyone who demands that you abandon your role as decision maker > in your own health care does not have your best interests at heart. Susan, I totally agree! While screening for breast cancer is important (I think there's a more accurate and less uncomfortable way than mammograms, now), you weigh the reasons for and against every action in your life. Every time I see my Diabetician, he tells me to stop drinking C2H5OH and stop smoking. I thank him for his concern and advice. He shrugs and says, "Well. It's your life!" SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >While screening for breast cancer is important (I >think there's a more accurate and less uncomfortable way than mammograms, >now), you weigh the reasons for and against every action in your life. What is that method? I just hate them. Signature: ^> DonnaB Yahoo Msgr: shallotpeel <*> http://tinyurl.co.uk/h193 http://tinyurl.co.uk/wdp8 http://tinyurl.co.uk/byv9 "You cannot compromise an artist's vision." - Ed Wood > On 24 Apr 2008 04:24:34 GMT, Nick Cramer <n_cramerSPAM@pacbell.net> > >While screening for breast cancer is important (I > >think there's a more accurate and less uncomfortable way than > >mammograms, now), you weigh the reasons for and against every action in > >your life. > > What is that method? I just hate them. Jun hates them, too, Donna. At 60, she puts up with the annual discomfort. The best site I've found, Googling on 'breast cancer screening' is http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/breast-cancer/DS00328/DSECTION=6 HTH SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >> > I suppose I could have done that but then I would run the risk of him >> > not being my Dr. any more. My former GP said not to come back if I [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >stop smoking. I thank him for his concern and advice. He shrugs and says, >"Well. It's your life!" Definition of an alcoholic: someone who drinks more than their doctor > On 24 Apr 2008 04:24:34 GMT, Nick Cramer <n_cramerSPAM@pacbell.net> > >> [ . . . ] [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Definition of an alcoholic: someone who drinks more than their doctor LMAO Thanks, Trink. I'll drink to that! SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Julie, anyone who demands that you abandon your role as decision maker in > your own health care does not have your best interests at heart. I have heard of many Drs. who are this way. > I have heard of many Drs. who are this way. So have I. They're all on my list of those to avoid at all costs. You're a health consumer, not a subject. Susan >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >being my Dr. any more. My former GP said not to come back if I refused to >get a mammogram. Considering the other things you have reported about this doctor that sounds like a very acceptable risk. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Valderee, Valderah. Or, I love To Go A-wandering... >>> x-no-archive: yes >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Considering the other things you have reported about this > doctor that sounds like a very acceptable risk. He's gone. I don't know what happened to him. >>>> x-no-archive: yes >>>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >He's gone. I don't know what happened to him. Died unexpectedly? (that happened to one of my clueless ones, good advertisement) > "Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in message > >> "Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in message > >> <read and snipped> > My numbers certainly did go up when I was put on it. I remember fighting > not to be put on it because my overall cholesterol was not high, but I > lost that one with my Drs. When my former GP gave me a scrip for some medicine for my leg cramps, I looked up the side effects and interactions and never filled the scrip! Google is my friend. SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >not to be put on it because my overall cholesterol was not high, but I lost >that one with my Drs. Fight? Lost? Not terms I use for my medical advisors. My doctor is my advisor. Not my boss. I employ him, not the other way around. Advice may, or may not, be accepted or acted on by the advisee. I simply told my doc I would not be taking lipitor again and asked his advice on alternatives. He didn't offer much, but a few people I spoke to suggested Zetia. I tried it. It didn't reduce my LDL as much as lipitor, but it is acceptable to me because my trigs/HDL is <1, and I am much more comfortable without the statin. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Valderee, Valderah. Or, I love To Go A-wandering... >>> x-no-archive: yes >>> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > acceptable to me because my trigs/HDL is <1, and I am much > more comfortable without the statin. This was not just one Dr. but two. I told my GP I didn't want to take a statin so he said, "Well... Lets' just see what Dr. ____ says!" Then he wrote a note to my Endo. That's when I was put on the statin. > I simply told my doc I would not be taking lipitor again and > asked his advice on alternatives. He didn't offer much, but > a few people I spoke to suggested Zetia. I tried it. It > didn't reduce my LDL as much as lipitor, but it is > acceptable to me because my trigs/HDL is <1, and I am much > more comfortable without the statin. Have you continued to take it despite the news that it does no good? Susan >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Susan Still taking it. It did reduce my LDL without having a significant effect on my HDL or trigs. Just not as much as Lipitor. And, while I'm comfortable with that LDL even though my doc is uneasy about it I would be less comfortable at the higher level. For some people, including those I discussed this with, Zetia has a significant effect. For others not as much or zero. Which news are you referring to? Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Valderee, Valderah. Or, I love To Go A-wandering... > Still taking it. It did reduce my LDL without having a > significant effect on my HDL or trigs. Just not as much as > Lipitor. And, while I'm comfortable with that LDL even > though my doc is uneasy about it I would be less comfortable > at the higher level. Lowering LDL is not a proven benefit, though. > For some people, including those I discussed this with, > Zetia has a significant effect. For others not as much or > zero. > > Which news are you referring to? http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/business/14cnd-drug.html?_r=1&ref=health&oref= slogin Susan >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Lowering LDL is not a proven benefit, though. Agreed. However, the jury is still out and I've not seen any reports of major problem side-effects from Zetia nor have I experienced any, so I'll continue for the moment. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Valderee, Valderah. Or, I love To Go A-wandering... > Agreed. However, the jury is still out and I've not seen any > reports of major problem side-effects from Zetia nor have I > experienced any, so I'll continue for the moment. Here's the thing, Alan. It may not be a wash, it may well be doing considerable harm, by suppressing your adrenal function. NIH has just undertaken a study to see how strong this effect is. LDL is what all of our endogenous steroids, including sex hormones, are made from. I'm pretty sure the jury is not still out on LDL as the least effective target and least predictive lipid in terms of CVD. The pan Asian study made that very clear, and even the drug manufacturers are now saying "some other action" of statins is probably responsible for any benefits, not LDL lowering. So you're taking a risk with a drug that has proven to be of no use in preventing heart disease and that may be injuring your HPA axis, which, in terms of health and longevity, is the whole enchilada. Susan >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Susan I'll keep it in mind, thanks. I suspect that my good numbers for lipids, BG's and other things may have been skewed by seven weeks of variable diets and highly variable vegetable input. It's hard to keep eating right when salads and unpeeled fruits are off the menu and the many veges in many Asian foods are served mixed with rice or noodles. I broke my rules twice for salads and unpeeled fruits. I ate an apple in Hong Kong and spent the first hour of the following morning in contemplation in the smallest room attached to my hotel room. I ate a chicken salad bought in the Irving Mall in Dallas and repeated the Hong Kong experience the next morning. Incidentally I am eternally grateful to my doctor for prescribing Norfloxacin for this situation. One pill and it was over in two hours. Magic. I risked the possible interaction with metformin without incident. So I'm delaying making any significant changes until I've had two quarterly CBC's, starting in a month. Thanks for the info and I'll keep it in mind when assessing the numbers then. As I've noted my LDL is still higher than the doc likes but the trigs and HDL are OK, so I'm not treating it as a matter of urgency at the moment. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Valderee, Valderah. Or, I love To Go A-wandering... > I'll keep it in mind, thanks. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Magic. I risked the possible interaction with metformin > without incident. I'm glad you got speedy relief! I am always able to pick the meat and veggies out of the noodles if need be. One challenge is getting Thai food that isn't sweetened with loads of sugar, though. > So I'm delaying making any significant changes until I've > had two quarterly CBC's, starting in a month. Thanks for the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the trigs and HDL are OK, so I'm not treating it as a matter > of urgency at the moment. Alan, you've often posted very knowledgably about lipids in the past, so I'm very puzzled by your acceptance of an LDL lowering goal as if it's an appropriate target. Docs are being misled into accepting these targets but they're not even proven safe yet, and LDL has proven, time and again, to be a meaningless target for reduction. Susan > [ . . . ] > I'm glad you got speedy relief! I am always able to pick the meat and > veggies out of the noodles if need be. One challenge is getting Thai > food that isn't sweetened with loads of sugar, though. My Thai wife is now using Splenda® instead of sugar in my food and has cut my rice down to 2 Tbs, or about twice that much noodles. [ . . . ] SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ > [ . . . ] > I'm glad you got speedy relief! I am always able to pick the meat and > veggies out of the noodles if need be. One challenge is getting Thai > food that isn't sweetened with loads of sugar, though. My Thai wife is now using onion instead of sugar in my food and has cut my rice down to 2 Tbs, or about twice that much noodles. [ . . . ] SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ Alan S wrote in message ... >Fight? Lost? > >Not terms I use for my medical advisors. My doctor is my >advisor. Not my boss. I employ him, not the other way >around. Advice may, or may not, be accepted or acted on by >the advisee. +10 Cheri > <read and snipped> > > Could this be the reason why my control is worsening? I've been on Simvastatin for a year now and have gotten my BG levels to near normal levels e.g. A1c 5.5, fastings in the 90s and rarely see anything over 130 at 1 or 2 hours PP. I guess it goes to show that everyone's different. John C. >> <read and snipped> >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >John C. You may not have realised the ambiguity in your comment. What did you do apart from Simvastatin? Surely you're not suggesting it led to those results? Presumably you meant it did not worsen your BGs. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Valderee, Valderah. Or, I love To Go A-wandering... > On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:30:06 -0700 (PDT), John > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Presumably you meant it did not worsen your BGs. Yes...sorry if I wasn't clear. Actually, I think my dietary/exercise/lifestyle changes are responsible for my normal BG numbers. Since I started on a statin the day after my heart attack, the same day I was Dx'd with T2, it's really impossible to know what effect, if any, the statin DOES have on my BGs. BTW, nice to see you posting again. I hope you had fun! John C. >> <jcarne...@verizon.net> wrote: >> >> "Susan" <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >John C. Thanks for the clarification. And yes, lots:-) Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest:Valderee, Valderah. Or, I love To Go A-wandering... > x-no-archive: yes > > Simvastatin Reduces Insulin Sensitivity in Patients With High Cholesterol I wonder if the same could be true of Antara. I was going to tell him, next visit, if I was going to take a statin, then how about a generic one (simvastatin) that doesn't cost so much. I'm getting a little tired of every pill he gives me costing an arm and a leg. I'm wondering, what did people take for the same condition the day before Antara became available. John >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >pill he gives me costing an arm and a leg. I'm wondering, what did people >take for the same condition the day before Antara became available. Embalming fluid. SignatureLarry, T2, Saskatchewan, Canada. DX 24 Aug 07. D&E Metformin 2000mg, Ramipril, Simvastatin Dx A1c 8.1 : Latest 5.1 (4 Mar 08) > Simvastatin Reduces Insulin Sensitivity in Patients With High Cholesterol > Although simvastatin improves flow-mediated dilation in [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Diabetes Care 2008;31:776-782. Without measuring and controlling for intake amounts, it remains possible that it is not direct effect of the simvastatin but rather a consequence of improved endothelial function --> increased hunger --> overeating --> more black fat (VAT) --> reduced insulin sensitivity. This would explain the suspicious absence of a simvastatin dose response for the decrease in insulin sensitivity. Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthier Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow |
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