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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2008Food Basics: Protein, fat, carbohydrates
New to diabetes? Read and learn http://tinyurl.com/3ygtge > New to diabetes? Read and learn > > http://tinyurl.com/3ygtge Part II http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/bernstein/may232001.htm or http://tinyurl.com/3aqy7x Part III http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/bernstein/202001.htm or http://tinyurl.com/2jmuoe Uncle Enrico said... >> New to diabetes? Read and learn >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > or http://tinyurl.com/2jmuoe "Research demonstrates that if one injects triglycerides into the blood supply of the liver of a well-conditioned athlete, someone very sensitive to insulin, she would become insulin-resistant until the excess triglyceride had been cleared from the bloodstream." An athlete is always suddenly a "she"? Not "they"? Does Bernstein have an copy editor? He didn't even cite the research he claimed. AND... "Dare your physician. Ask him or her if his lipid profile on a low-fat diet can remotely compare to mine, on a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet: *Direct LDL—the "bad" cholesterol—63 (below 130 is considered normal) *HDL—the "good" cholesterol—116 (above 30 is considered normal) *Triglycerides— 76 (below 150 is considered normal) *Lipoprotein(a)—undetectable (below 30 is considered normal)" That sounds like a very stupid and confrontational thing to do, imho! What a thoughtless thing to say!!! And "Ask him or her if his..." How about "Ask them if their..." He certainly has a problem with gender, grammatically, if not more, imho. I stopped reading. Andy  SignatureT2 HBP Gout :) Dr. Bernstein has been fighting the medical establishment for decades. If he had listened to their advice as a Type I at age 12 in 1946, he'd be dead by now eating their high carb diet. Using the first available BG meter, he figured out how to normalize his blood sugars and reversed proteins in his kidneys, frozen shoulder, a developing neuropathy and a general decline in his health. He's still left with the damage done to the bones of his feet, and his normal growth was stunted. He's petite. He tried getting papers published in the medical journals, and succeeded outside his own country, but the AMA wouldn't listen. So he entered medical school at age 43, already an engineer, determined to spread the word to diabetics who wanted to survive, and he began publishing. He's quite healthy and in his 70's. He has a huge diabetes practice in New York. Yes. He charges patients a lot of money for taking over cases and getting them back to health. But he gives out much of his knowledge to diabetics for free on his website, and he publishes everything he knows about diabetes in his book, "Diabetes Solution" which he sells for $20.00. I don't blame him for his confrontational style given what is at stake for so many of us. I would hope you would give him a second chance. I would hope that others will give him a fair reading. His approach is rigorous. Uncle Enrico said... > I don't blame him for his confrontational style given what is at stake > for so many of us. > > I would hope you would give him a second chance. I would hope that > others will give him a fair reading. Uncle Enrico, If he had the ability to bring the rest of my medical conditions into the picture, he'd be my hero, maybe. Andy SignatureT2 HBP Gout :) > Uncle Enrico said... of Bernstein: >>I don't blame him for his confrontational style given what is at stake [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > If he had the ability to bring the rest of my medical conditions into the > picture, he'd be my hero, maybe. There were over a thousand finds for the search string of the following terms: "type 2"+diabetes+gout+"metabolic syndrome"+hypertension - http://tinyurl.com/yv359u. I am not suggesting that you look them all up, but a brief glance of the first page of finds shows up the conditions you have noted below your signiture. While I don't have access to the full article of the following abstract, note that it was related to 740 other articles. (See the 3rd. item listed in the above result of the search string.) The metabolic syndrome. Eckel RH, Grundy SM, Zimmet PZ. Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism and Diabetes, University of Colorado at Denver and Health Sciences Center, PO Box 6511, MS 8106, Aurora, CO 80045, USA. Robert.Eckel@UCHSC.edu The metabolic syndrome is a common metabolic disorder that results from the increasing prevalence of obesity. The disorder is defined in various ways, but in the near future a new definition(s) will be applicable worldwide. The pathophysiology seems to be largely attributable to insulin resistance with excessive flux of fatty acids implicated. A proinflammatory state probably contributes to the syndrome. The increased risk for type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease demands therapeutic attention for those at high risk. The fundamental approach is weight reduction and increased physical activity; however, drug treatment could be appropriate for diabetes and cardiovascular disease risk reduction. PMID: 15836891 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Perhaps Uncle Enrico could check Bernstein's book(s) for any reference on gout. I tried the search at his site and did not find anything. Based on the search string I started with gout is at least frequently associated with type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome. Frank > Perhaps Uncle Enrico could check Bernstein's book(s) for any reference > on gout. I tried the search at his site and did not find anything. > Based on the search string I started with gout is at least frequently > associated with type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome. > > Frank I found nothing on gout in Bernstein's book. From my personal experience, I used to get gout flareups back in the day when I weighed 205 pounds and didn't get enough exercise. I was diabetic then as I am now. Now that I'm down to 143, I haven't seen the problem except when I was taking large doses of fish oil supplements and weighed about 160 lbs. I now only take 1700 mg of fish oil with no problems. >> Perhaps Uncle Enrico could check Bernstein's book(s) for any reference >> on gout. I tried the search at his site and did not find anything. >> Based on the search string I started with gout is at least frequently >> associated with type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome. > I found nothing on gout in Bernstein's book. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > taking large doses of fish oil supplements and weighed about 160 lbs. I > now only take 1700 mg of fish oil with no problems. I found the Diabetes In Control search engine at http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/modules.php?name=Search and came up with "Hyperuricemia Associated With Type 2 Diabetes" - http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=5607 There were 2 other articles listed, but were not related to gout. Frank > > Uncle Enrico said... of Bernstein: > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > Based on the search string I started with gout is at least frequently > associated with type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome. Gout is also frequently associated with low-carb dieting. Therefore it remains smarter to not diet but rather simply eat less, down to the right amount: http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeSmart A simple parable to help promote understanding: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Parable Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow >Dr. Bernstein has been fighting the medical establishment for decades. >If he had listened to their advice as a Type I at age 12 in 1946, he'd >be dead by now eating their high carb diet. Dead?, most likely not, complications? most likely. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . >An athlete is always suddenly a "she"? Not "they"? Does Bernstein have an >copy editor? He didn't even cite the research he claimed. Some editions do that weird thing where the subject changes gender in alternate chapters. I doubt that's anything to do with Bernstein. You could try the Bernstein board to see if anyone's got gout on his diet. I don't remember anyone saying so, but then I don't suffer from it myself, so it wouldn't stick. http://www.diabetes-book.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl Tell you what, though, some of those people have beautiful numbers. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 Nicky said... >>An athlete is always suddenly a "she"? Not "they"? Does Bernstein have an >>copy editor? He didn't even cite the research he claimed. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > D&E, 100ug thyroxine > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 Nicky, I've done well enough on my own (plenty of trials and errors), with key advice from a.s.d naturally, so that I can ignore Bernstein. Best, Andy SignatureT2 HBP Gout :) FBG: 82 mg/dl And isn't that the point Andy. Berstein's approach is evidence based. He developed his approach by what worked for him as a type I diabetic in the years before human insulin was available and the other animal based ones were the only option. He says that he managed to turn around delibiltaing complications in himself. If something works in keeping your BG in the normal range and its different then use it. Bernsteins approach may work for others. Personally the no fruit thing in his approach worries me. But take what works for you and forget the rest. SignaturePhil T2, Australia Diag: January 2007 D&E, Last HbA1c 5.7% > Nicky said... > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > :) > FBG: 82 mg/dl I read Bernstein when I was first diagnosed (May 2007) and the diet scared the hell out of me. Then I tested and tried for a couple of months and did lots of cycling, and found out for myself. Lots of what he says makes perfect sense, particularly for Type 1s, and his patients' records speak volumes for his methods. And he is wonderful on the workings of the body and the endocrine system - his explanations laid most others flat out for the count.... But this is an individual disease, and we all get different results. I cannot live on his diet - the foods are too American (half of them mean nothing to me, most of the rest are not available here) and it is too "processed" for me. I eat fresh and seasonal and I always have. I didn't get diabetes because of my diet, I chose the wrong ancestors, and took a drug (Prednisolone/Prednisone) which enabled me to keep on walking around..tough choice, I know... I cannot eat his breakfasts because I don't recognise the ingredients at all. I see where he is coming from and I admire him greatly....but... And I'm a fit (and now thin) Type 2, so I can use, and need, rather more carbs than he thinks necessary. All in all I would regard him as a most useful resource. I'm re- reading at present. But we all need to find our own way. It's like faith - you don't want mine and I don't want yours. But if you can speak calmly about it I'll listen. And so should you.... And, yes, I think he would be dead by now without his work on himself. The fact that he pioneered the self-monitoring BG work that has helped so many should count for a lot. Somehow, I have more faith iin a doctor who was an engineer, then retrained, than in a doctor who has known no other way of life... Wider experience counts, folks Back to the real world... Helen Howes > I read Bernstein when I was first diagnosed (May 2007) and the diet > scared the hell out of me. Then I tested and tried for a couple of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > wonderful on the workings of the body and the endocrine system - his > explanations laid most others flat out for the count.... That's the most important reason I like his book: he understands so much better than most how the whole system works, and is also capable of explaining it clearly. > I > didn't get diabetes because of my diet, I chose the wrong ancestors, > and took a drug (Prednisolone/Prednisone) which enabled me to keep on > walking around..tough choice, I know... Me too. In my case I first had to take massive prednisolone dosages to kill ulcerative colitis, and then later I had to take lesser amounts for years to keep polymyalgia rheumatica at bay. Without it I could only shuffle around, and I couldn't reach down to put on my socks or up to brush my hair. So I guess I traded continued use of my anus and continued employment for diabetes. Had the choice been put to me like that at the time I think I still would have taken the pred. If you don't mind telling us, what was it you traded for diabetes? :-) > And, yes, I think he would be dead by now without his work on > himself. The fact that he pioneered the self-monitoring BG work that > has helped so many should count for a lot. Somehow, I have more faith > iin a doctor who was an engineer, then retrained, than in a doctor who > has known no other way of life... Wider experience counts, folks I also think being an engineer helped greatly, because engineers often have to learn about control theory, which doctors don't, and the endocrine system is an extremely complicated control system. One of the things which tell an experienced engineer he's dealing with a control system is when fiddling with the system produces bafflingly contrary results to those he expected on the basis of common sense :-) Another medical area in which many doctors are baffled by the way research results keep contradicting their expectations is nutrition and diet. Could there possibly be control systems involved there too? :-) SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] > > I > > didn't get diabetes because of my diet, I chose the wrong ancestors, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > If you don't mind telling us, what was it you traded for diabetes? :-) I went to the doctor with a hip fault - he asked "what I couldn't do.." "Can't get upstairs or kick anybody under the chin" I said. After he stopped quailing (this _was_ the first time I had met him) and I had explained about the martial arts stuff, and after a lot of tests and stuff, we diagnosed Polymyalgia Rheumatica, started me on the steroids, and (36 hours later) I could run upstairs, and kick anyone under the chin again.. I'm short and was fat, so this has better shock value <grin> And I accepted the risk from day one. Without the prednisolone I might have had an extra year or two, but perhaps not. The usual age in my family is 50, and I was 51. And without the steroid I would not have been getting bg tests every few weeks, and might have had years of undiagnosed high sugars and complications to deal with. As it is, I think I have been lucky. And if I'd realised how easy it would be to lose the weight (I didn't see the need, as I was very fit, still am, and had no reason to) and did it sooner, I might be waiting yet. Or perhaps not.... Helen Howes _ > I went to the doctor with a hip fault - he asked "what I couldn't > do.." > > "Can't get upstairs or kick anybody under the chin" I said. After he > stopped quailing (this _was_ the first time I had met him) and I had > explained about the martial arts stuff, Slow as I am, I can still use my running as a general health guage -- not *every* day, but if I'm slumping over time (more than a week or two, and after doing any extra rest or allowing for any overtraining I might have been doing) then "something isn't right". At least none of my doctors laughs about it! When I went off my regular thyroid meds (T4) & switched temporarily to Cytomel (T3) I could tell when I needed to inch up my dose by how my running was going. Too much T3 before the T4 started fading would make me feel "wired". Then I'd get to "full dose" not long before I had to stop it altogether for a couple of weeks for my scans. bj > > I read Bernstein when I was first diagnosed (May 2007) and the diet > > scared the hell out of me. Then I tested and tried for a couple of [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > continued employment for diabetes. Had the choice been put to me like > that at the time I think I still would have taken the pred. You would have likely avoided the diabetes had you avoided accumulating VAT (black fat) by making sure that the amount you ate was optimal: http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeHealthy A simple parable to help promote understanding: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Parable > If you don't mind telling us, what was it you traded for diabetes? :-) > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I also think being an engineer helped greatly, It does :-) > because engineers often > have to learn about control theory, Yes. > which doctors don't, Generally except for yours truly :-) > and the > endocrine system is an extremely complicated control system. By GOD's design :-) HE is the Great Controls Systems Engineer :-)) > One of > the things which tell an experienced engineer he's dealing with a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and diet. Could there possibly be control systems involved there too? > :-) By GOD's design, the GI tract control system has numerous "poles" so that it is stable only when the amount of daily eaten food is optimal. Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow >> I read Bernstein when I was first diagnosed (May 2007) and the diet >> scared the hell out of me. Then I tested and tried for a couple of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >much better than most how the whole system works, and is also capable >of explaining it clearly. I just bought it for that very reason, I have absolutely nothing in common with Bernstein and from what I've read so far his approach would be far too ascetic for my circumstances, but enoguh people whose opinions I've learned to trust have said the same thing. Now to find time to actually read it . . . >> I >> didn't get diabetes because of my diet, I chose the wrong ancestors, >> and took a drug (Prednisolone/Prednisone) which enabled me to keep on >> walking around..tough choice, I know... Yes those bloody ancestors have a lot to answer for >Me too. In my case I first had to take massive prednisolone dosages to >kill ulcerative colitis, and then later I had to take lesser amounts [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >and diet. Could there possibly be control systems involved there too? >:-) One of the reasons I always found Old Al easy to follow, he took a systems approach. Many medically trained people especially specialists take the approach of looking at symptoms as seperate entities (true for specialists in general I suppose as that's why they're specialists) when an overview would suggest links and associations that may not come to them. >>> I read Bernstein when I was first diagnosed (May 2007) and the diet >>> scared the hell out of me. Then I tested and tried for a couple of [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > specialists) when an overview would suggest links and associations > that may not come to them. It was shown 10 years ago that low fat can reverse diabetes (type 2): http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/09/980911074157.htm Helen, I started off following Berstein and then got persuaded I didn't need to be so rigorous in my diet. I'm convinced now, after developing a painful complication with my peripheral nerves, that I should have stuck with his program, which I am now doing and getting improvement. >I've done well enough on my own (plenty of trials and errors), with key >advice from a.s.d naturally, so that I can ignore Bernstein. Andy, that statement alone says that you ought to be rushing out to read his book... Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 Nicky said... >>I've done well enough on my own (plenty of trials and errors), with key >>advice from a.s.d naturally, so that I can ignore Bernstein. > > Andy, that statement alone says that you ought to be rushing out to > read his book... Why? If a copy of his book landed on my desk, I'd read it but I'm not going to buy it, not after he tells ME to argue HIS numbers with MY doctor!?! He should see another kind of doctor with his "holier than thou" attitude. I know enough about fats, protein and carbs to diet and lose 50lbs. in 10 months. My lipid panel numbers are improved (with a ways to go, admittedly) AND my gout is dormant AND my BG is in the target range more often at the same time, as a result. I monitor my blood pressure often enough to know I could cut my dosage. No doctor can take my blood pressure every four months and begin to know my condition on a daily basis like I can! My diet software doesn't miss a crumb! The BG monitor keeps me on track. I think it's the numbers that are slowly killing me!!! ;) For most of my of my life, until very recently, I wandered around not knowing my condition on a daily OR even an hourly basis. Now I have a much better idea. All no thanks to Dr. Bernstein, thank you. Even MY doctor is a chump! He tried to prescribe me onto another BP med purely out of a cost savings to me, nevermind the fact that I've been taking the stuff for over 10 years. Why add spin to my world for a few dollars?!? Back then, I went through trials of every BP med out there before hitting on a no-fatigue/no space-out BP med. It works. It ain't broke... I gave up a 2 pack a day cigarette habit almost four years ago, cold turkey, luck of the Irish survived pancreatitus, managed gout and now diabetes. I have every confidence in myself, now more than ever. </RANT> And time marches on... Best, Andy SignatureT2 HBP Gout :) \ He tried to prescribe me onto another BP med > purely out of a cost savings to me, nevermind the fact that I've been > taking the stuff for over 10 years. Why add spin to my world for a few > dollars?!? Back then, I went through trials of every BP med out there > before hitting on a no-fatigue/no space-out BP med. It works. It ain't > broke... Perhaps he was trying to persuade you to take an ACE or an ARB bp med that has proven kidney protection for diabetics? Ozgirl said... > \ > He tried to prescribe me onto another BP med [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Perhaps he was trying to persuade you to take an ACE or an ARB bp med that > has proven kidney protection for diabetics? Ozgirl, In all fairness, it was his response to my questioning, "is there a generic for Diovan yet?" "No." He started scribbling on his prescription pad, "try this," (the name escapes me) "it's a generic so it won't cost you as much." He probably thought he was doing me a favor. Andy SignatureT2 HBP Gout :) >>An athlete is always suddenly a "she"? Not "they"? Does Bernstein have an >>copy editor? He didn't even cite the research he claimed. > > Some editions do that weird thing where the subject changes gender in > alternate chapters. I doubt that's anything to do with Bernstein. Doctor Spock liked to alternate genders when talking about kids in his baby books. So does Neal Donald-Walsch (sp) in his Conversations with God books. Seems to be not a rare thing to do so. >>>An athlete is always suddenly a "she"? Not "they"? Does Bernstein have an >>>copy editor? He didn't even cite the research he claimed. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > baby books. So does Neal Donald-Walsch (sp) in his Conversations with God > books. Seems to be not a rare thing to do so. Some writers just don't feel grammatically comfortable using "they" as a singular subject. I don't care for it either, but it's less cringe-making than the awkward his-or-her all the time. I started using s/he but that's hard to do in speech & doesn't seem to have a possessive counterpart (although some of the Star Trek books use "hir" in referring to a dual-gender being....) Not that I'm any speech purist, but some things just don't *sound* right (& I can't figure out any way to make them "good"). English needs a bit more evolving & borrowing to address this problem! bj >>>>An athlete is always suddenly a "she"? Not "they"? Does Bernstein have an >>>>copy editor? He didn't even cite the research he claimed. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> baby books. So does Neal Donald-Walsch (sp) in his Conversations with God >> books. Seems to be not a rare thing to do so. > Some writers just don't feel grammatically comfortable using "they" as a > singular subject. I don't care for it either, but it's less cringe-making [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > dual-gender being....) Not that I'm any speech purist, but some things just > don't *sound* right (& I can't figure out any way to make them "good"). > English needs a bit more evolving & borrowing to address this problem! The use of plural pronoun forms for singular is a very old substitution. It's how we lost the "thee" and "thou" singulars for the "you" plurals. It's what we do when we ask if anyone wants sugar in their coffee. It's as old as Shakespeare. It's not logical. Get over it :-) SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] |
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