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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / March 2008Newbie still in Why Me? mode
Hello everyone, Thank you very much for the info I've found here while trying to sift through it all. History: Borderline diabetic around 8 yrs old, off sugar for 1 year, then back to normal diet. No problem I was aware of since that time - till now - over 40 yrs later. Always small, very active, but not too great of a diet, healthwise. Profile: female, 52, 4'11", 105lbs avg wt., desk job but somwhat active, no obvious symptoms of health issues, trying to work myself out of the denial and why me stage. No one in my family has high cholestrol or blood sugar, and all are larger and heavier eaters than me!!! Two years ago I had a physical that showed I had high cholestrol and high blood sugar. Was told both had to come down and quick! Started on Lipitor at a low dosage and have worked up to 80mg a day (scary!) and still Doc would like to see it lower. Thru diet and excersize tried to bring blood sugar level down, saw a dietician one time who educated me on diet, carbs (I had thought sugar was the problem), and said other than changing diet, perhaps loosing a little weight, but not to get to low, there wasn't much else she could help me with. In the beginning I only checked my readings in the AM. I have learned I can not eat any pasta, potato, bread or any type of processed flour food, and keep a decent reading. Also stumbled onto the fact that if I drink a glass of wine with a meal, my readings stay much lower. But..... gradually my A1C (?) readings have crept from 6.5 up to over 8 and the Doctor insisted I start using meds, and accept that I am a "diabetic". I still have never felt any "symptoms" of any of this. Monday I started taking 500mg of metformin ER, and back to taking morning readings. There has already been a significant drop, because I could never get a reading under 100 in the AM without totally skipping dinner the night before. Now, I am getting in the 80's and actually eating a full but healthy dinner - protein, vegie, no bread, pasta, or potatos. I've always been horrible at taking meds, prefer natural remedies, very embarrased over the Lipitor, apalled at the dosage, and now yet another med!!! I'm just now starting to admit to family and friends that I've been diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes. But was really hoping I could just beat this thing and not require any more meds if I could just eat better, or even half starve myself if needed. I'm a picky eater, don't like a lot of various foods, and have always been bad about skipping meals. Maybe that is my problem? But its very confusing, I can just eat meat, fish, or chicken cooked any way, with a salad and get decent readings, but isn't meat horrible for the cholestrol??? And, could that be why that number is still too high? I have to eat something at least once a day. And I'm not at all a salad fan. Any advice would be helpful. I see that you all have pretty much gotten the food and med thing down to a science. And, it sounds like I should be checking my blood much more often. It all seems very time consuming and intimidating to me. Sorry so long....... Welcome! The best advice i can give is take a deep breath and relax...it sounds like your on the right path and just need to find what works for you. Sure testing alot is a pain but soon enough you will know what does what to you and you will learn to feel if your up or down so will test alot less. Diet is the main reason testing is great...it lets you know whats what and so there will become no taboo foods..just fixes and workarounds and portion options. Dieticians are not generlaly doctors and tend to stick with whatever food chart the gov tells them to use..which may work great for a healthy 20 year old who is active..but a type two diabetic it might be the worst thing possible. So the best advice is be your own best advocate in that you learn for yourself what makes a healthy diet and work it what works for you and remove what does not . Keep with the exercise and tweak the diet and you will be fine. KROM > Hello everyone, Thank you very much for the info I've found here > while trying to sift through it all. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Sorry so long....... > Hello everyone, Thank you very much for the info I've found here while > trying to sift through it all. [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > Sorry so long....... I can suggest two books which have helped me a lot - "Diabetes for Dummies" and Dr. Richard Bernstein's "Diabetes Solution". I find that a low carb diet (around 30-50 grams daily) plus metformin and exercise helps me keep my diabetes under control. My A1C runs between about 5.2 and 5.6. I really have to kick myself sometimes to do the exercise I know I need. I've found that nuts and cheese are good snacks. I've had some success with a book on glycemic index. Oroweat makes a double fibre bread with significanly less net carbs - I can have a slice of that once in a while. I also found low carb tortillas recently. You need to start reading labels - I always look for the lowest net carbs = total carbs - dietary fibre. It will take some time and experimentation to find out what you can handle. I find I can eat just about anything without spiking my BG level - but for certain things the portions need to be very small. Good Luck, ray > Hello everyone, Thank you very much for the info I've found here > while trying to sift through it all. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Sorry so long....... See here: http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm trying to work myself >> out of the denial and why me stage. I can sure relate to your denial and "why me?" questioning. I am finally accepting that I do have the disease I have, and it is not going away any time soon, nor ever. The "why me" is not a problem for me, but I can see what you are questioning since their are others in your family that appear to be more at risk than you are. *I* am not the one to give you those diabetes answers, but I know that others more knowledgeable already have. I just wanted to tell you I understand the denial part, but.......... the sooner you are able to get things worked out, the better things will be for you all around. They have good advice. Billie >> Hello everyone, Thank you very much for the info I've found here >> while trying to sift through it all. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] >> >> Sorry so long....... > Hello everyone, Thank you very much for the info I've found here > while trying to sift through it all. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Sorry so long....... Welcome to the club no one wants to join! Sorry you have to be here, but your doctor is right, you need to accept it and deal with it. When you get your BG under control--which means never having a reading over 140mg/dl--you're going to feel better, and will be a lot less likely to develop those nasty complications, like blindness, amputation, neuropathy. I have to second everyone's advice: read the link that Robert provided--it will tell you how to use your glucometer to determine which foods are right for you; and do some reading. Ray recommended two great books. The other thing you should know is that diabetes is not just a disease of glucose metabolism, but also of cholesterol and triglyceride metabolism. Many here in ASD have found that once their BGs were under control, their triglycerides and cholesterol improved markedly. Some have been able to reduce or totally eliminate their lipitor (or other statin drugs). And I know what you mean about wondering why you have diabetes given that you are not overweight. I have never been overweight either, and I have the disease too. Have a family history though in my grandfather and great grandmother, so..... You just have to suck it up and deal with it. Do not view it as some failure on your part. You didn't pick your genes. No reason to be embarrassed. Hold your head high and show your family and friends that you're in control. Heck, if I'm eating at someone else's house, I tell them that I'm diabetic, that I manage my blood sugar with diet, and so I won't be eating certain things. That way, the host doesn't have to wonder if there is something unsatisfactory about the food she has prepared. I've never run into anyone yet, who didn't try to be supportive. Keep coming back and asking questions. The only stupid question is the one that goes unasked. Best regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise > .............. I have to second everyone's advice: read the > link that Robert provided--it will tell you how to use your glucometer [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Keep coming back and asking questions. The only stupid question is > the one that goes unasked. Thanks to all who have replied! I had ready the link that Robert provided, along with the other associated pages, and that is how I was able to find this group. Those pages were very helpful, and had me intrigued. I want to learn more. Since then I've been trying to read through some of the most applicable posts. And, finally decided to join in. I had no idea that the glucose, cholesterol, and triglycerides were all linked. Other than being worried that in trying to eat right for the blood sugar, I was not eating correctly to lower the cholesterol. Heck, I was about ready to give up, because I just don't want to live on nothing but salads!!! I do have one question after reading the pages you suggested is, and it may sound really dumb to some: Is it important to eat, and then to test, after three meals every day? I've never been a three meal a day person. I could do a small snack, like a hand full on nuts or something like that in the mornings and again for lunch, if that is really important. I would just have to do some better planning to take things to work with me. Usually I just eat one meal a day, and it is usually dinner. If I do happen to eat a normal lunch, I only eat a light snack in the evening. Is that a really bad habit for someone with diabetes? I drink a lot of coffee and tea, no sweetners, so giving up sweet drinks is not an issue. > I do have one question after reading the pages you suggested is, and > it may sound really dumb to some: Is it important to eat, and then to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > someone with diabetes? I drink a lot of coffee and tea, no sweetners, > so giving up sweet drinks is not an issue. I used to eat only one bigger meal a day and had to get used to three meals. Otherwise I would eat too much in that one meal and cause more of a spike. I know some people are going to disagree with me, but I am a believer in getting a good balance of protein/carbs/fat. I eat 2400 calories a day. If I were to try to get 30% from carbs that would be 180g. No way I could do this in one meal. So I do my carbs in smaller portions, in the afternoon on. And I offset some of the rises with excercise. I don't yet have it perfect but am learning. I am going slowly on the carb input front. I go for the really high fiber stuff. Lentil, quinoa, spinach are my favs. Lots of carbs, but also lots of fiber. My breakfast is high protein, my lunch less protein, bit of carbs and fat, afternoon snack carbs, dinner is high in good carbs. But I am still experimenting and do not have the experience most here do. : > I do have one question after reading the pages you suggested is, and : > it may sound really dumb to some: Is it important to eat, and then to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] : > someone with diabetes? I drink a lot of coffee and tea, no sweetners, : > so giving up sweet drinks is not an issue. : I used to eat only one bigger meal a day and had to get used to three : meals. Otherwise I would eat too much in that one meal and cause more of : a spike. : I know some people are going to disagree with me, but I am a believer in : getting a good balance of protein/carbs/fat. I eat 2400 calories a day. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] : front. I go for the really high fiber stuff. Lentil, quinoa, spinach are : my favs. Lots of carbs, but also lots of fiber. : My breakfast is high protein, my lunch less protein, bit of carbs and : fat, afternoon snack carbs, dinner is high in good carbs. : But I am still experimenting and do not have the experience most here do. What we are concerned about, as diabetic, is EFFECTIVE carbs the amount of carbs in a food after subtracting the fiber (see US food labels). Spnach is not a carby food as are also, lettuce, broccoli, cauliflower and othe rcabagy vegetables, string beans, asparagus, etc. (this is only a partial list). Lentils and quinoa have fiber, but also considerable carbs in the form of starch, so it is important to control the portions and measure your bg after eating them to see how they affect YOUR body. Most of us eat quite large quantities of the lower carb vegetables, like the ones I listed, but very little of the starchier ones, like the lentils and quinoa. As to eating only one meal-it would be very difficult to get your nutrients needed for a day in one large meal and not be eating too many carb grrams adn therefore, getting a high bg reading. It woul be like being a Yo-yo adn woudl ttrain your whole system possibly leading to some of the dire problems diabetics can get. Spreading your eating and carbs out over the day will work much better keeping you at more level bgs throughout the day. Wendy >: > I do have one question after reading the pages you suggested is, and >: > it may sound really dumb to some: Is it important to eat, and then to [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >: My breakfast is high protein, my lunch less protein, bit of carbs and >: fat, afternoon snack carbs, dinner is high in good carbs. Yes much the same here. I used to have a heavy carb breakfast, just like the dietician recommended, then only snack during the day, then have my main meal in the evening, now I tend to spread the same amount of food out over the day, paying attention to my own specific carb ratios. >: But I am still experimenting and do not have the experience most here do. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >form of starch, so it is important to control the portions and measure >your bg after eating them to see how they affect YOUR body. Yes I can do quinoa with no problems, but amaranth which is from a very similar species will spike me about as much as rice. Probably someone else may find the exact opposite. >Most of us eat quite large quantities of the lower carb vegetables, like >the ones I listed, but very little of the starchier ones, like the lentils [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >out over the day will work much better keeping you at more level bgs >throughout the day. Yes, getting rid of the BG spikes has been instrumental in improving both my lipids and my blood pressure. Old Al used to quote a cardiologist (can't remember who) to the effect that Type 2 is a cardiovascular disease sometimes associated with high BG. > .............. I have to second everyone's advice: read the > link that Robert provided--it will tell you how to use your glucometer [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Keep coming back and asking questions. The only stupid question is > the one that goes unasked. Thanks to all who have replied! I had ready the link that Robert provided, along with the other associated pages, and that is how I was able to find this group. Those pages were very helpful, and had me intrigued. I want to learn more. Since then I've been trying to read through some of the most applicable posts. And, finally decided to join in. I had no idea that the glucose, cholesterol, and triglycerides were all linked. Other than being worried that in trying to eat right for the blood sugar, I was not eating correctly to lower the cholesterol. Heck, I was about ready to give up, because I just don't want to live on nothing but salads!!! I do have one question after reading the pages you suggested is, and it may sound really dumb to some: Is it important to eat, and then to test, after three meals every day? I've never been a three meal a day person. I could do a small snack, like a hand full on nuts or something like that in the mornings and again for lunch, if that is really important. I would just have to do some better planning to take things to work with me. Usually I just eat one meal a day, and it is usually dinner. If I do happen to eat a normal lunch, I only eat a light snack in the evening. Is that a really bad habit for someone with diabetes? I drink a lot of coffee and tea, no sweetners, so giving up sweet drinks is not an issue. -- If you're diabetic, it's a good idea to spread your carbohydrate into at least 3 meals a day, and often more. That helps keep your blood glucose from getting to high. That doesn't mean eat more - just spread it out. > > .............. I have to second everyone's advice: read the > > link that Robert provided--it will tell you how to use your glucometer [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > someone with diabetes? I drink a lot of coffee and tea, no sweetners, > so giving up sweet drinks is not an issue. The only problem with eating one meal per day, is that often the meal is big, and another thing that contributes to a BG spike is the quantity of food eaten at one time. You can eat all foods that individually test out fine, but if you eat a big enough quantity of food at one time, it can overwhelm your system. I'm one who can't eat a whole lot at one time, so my meals are fairly small. You'll just have to experiment and find out what works for you. It requires a lot of testing at first, but pretty soon you'll have it down well enough you'll just be spot checking. That's the one cool thing about this situation, if you eat to correct your BG, you end up correcting or at least markedly improving the cholesterol and triglycerides too. So that leads me to my next suggestion. Your doctor will probably disagree, but do not to overly concern yourself with consuming fats. First off, your body needs good fats like olive oil, and secondly some researchers are beginning to believe that the emphasis on not eating fats and getting the majority of our calories from carbs is leading to the epidemic in diabetes. (Duh!) That said, I don't want you to take my word for it, especially since your doctor will probably disagree, so I'm giving you a link to a rather lengthy article that explains the thinking behind not putting so much emphasis on fat avoidance: What If It's ALL Been A Big Fat Lie? by Gary Taubes, http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F04E2D61F3EF934A35754C0A9649C8B63 I know it goes against everything you've heard to be able to eat fats and control your cholesterol and triglycerides at the same time, but that has not been the experience of most people here. I eat lean meats, dairy (including full fat cheese) lots of veggies, occasional fruits depending on their sugar content (I can eat half an apple, strawberries, cherries, grapefruit, a couple of wedges of orange) and nuts. Like you I have to avoid, potatoes, rice, wheat products. However, I have found I can eat Wasa Light Rye crackers, and the Mission Brand low carb tortillas. So I have wraps instead of a sandwich. And don't be surprised if you get some quirky results. For example, I can eat raw carrots, but cooked ones spike me. Sounds like you have already been doing your homework! While it's a lot to digest all at once, you're going to do fine. :-) Best regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise If your not a big meal person its important to then snack all day on nutritious foods like almonds etc. Food is important to keeping your BG stable so its important to eat. KROM "CyberGirl" <linda_mathews@ibew.org> wrote I do have one question after reading the pages you suggested is, and it may sound really dumb to some: Is it important to eat, and then to test, after three meals every day? I've never been a three meal a day person. I could do a small snack, like a hand full on nuts or something like that in the mornings and again for lunch, if that is really important. I would just have to do some better planning to take things to work with me. Usually I just eat one meal a day, and it is usually dinner. If I do happen to eat a normal lunch, I only eat a light snack in the evening. Is that a really bad habit for someone with diabetes? I drink a lot of coffee and tea, no sweetners, so giving up sweet drinks is not an issue. Green veggies, Lean proteins, Nuts, Low glycemic fruit...and not too much of it--apple quarters, for example Olive oil Modest amounts of eggs and cheese Resistance training Supplements to consider: Alpha Lipoic Acid with biotin supplement plus evening primrose oil before meals. Hi, Linda - >History: Borderline diabetic around 8 yrs old, off sugar for 1 year, >then back to normal diet. No problem I was aware of since that time - >till now - over 40 yrs later. Yup; could be me - borderline GTT aged 10; T2 dx age 43. No apparent history in the family, but the endo explained that was because my Mum's side kept dying of heart/stroke issues before being diagnosed; and it clearly comes from my Dad's side too, as my same-father half brother was dx'd the week after me. >Thru diet and excersize >tried to bring blood sugar level down, saw a dietician one time who >educated me on diet, carbs Nice to hear a newbie talk about exercise! What are you doing? > Doctor insisted I start using meds, and accept that I am a >"diabetic". I still have never felt any "symptoms" of any of this. That's very good - catching it before symptoms other than your cholesterol, etc, I mean. Be nice to keep it that way! >was really hoping I >could just beat this thing and not require any more meds if I could [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >a salad and get decent readings, but isn't meat horrible for the >cholestrol??? Cholesterol is mostly made by the liver; what you eat doesn't have an awful lot to do with what's swimming round in your bloodstream. Getting your glucose under control will likely help the cholesterol no end - and metformin is a really good liver drug. You might be able to do what I did, take the metformin for several months to sort your liver out, then drop it; but even if you have to stay on meds, keeping your bg controlled is a huge help in general health. Getting a wide range of foods is important - the "eat a rainbow" campaign is a really good idea, IMO! But it doesn't need to be salad all the time. Type "recipe low carb" into google sometime, and be overwhelmed : ) Not eating is generally a call to your liver to make some glucose and squirt it into your bloodstream. Damaged livers have faulty off-switches; it doesn't know when to stop. You're better off eating lots of small meals than a single large one, and trying to keep your bg as solid as possible. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > Yup; could be me - borderline GTT aged 10; T2 dx age 43. No apparent > history in the family, but the endo explained that was because my > Mum's side kept dying of heart/stroke issues before being diagnosed; > and it clearly comes from my Dad's side too, as my same-father half > brother was dx'd the week after me. Wow! That really lifted my spirits just hearing that there are others out there with a very similar profile, especially when it sounds as if you really doing will with it ........................... > Nice to hear a newbie talk about exercise! What are you doing? I'm obsessed with not getting a belly, and anytime I have gained any weight that is where it seems to go. So, in the mornings I do ab excersizes. And, I LOVE to dance, so almost every night when I get home, I crank up the music and dance around the house, while opening mail, cooking, cleaning, etc. It's a great stress reliever, great cardio, AND I get a lot done while doing it. Maybe not quite as quickly, but definatley a more enjoyable way to do chores. My doctor thinks its funny, but great. :o) ...................... > Cholesterol is mostly made by the liver; what you eat doesn't have an > awful lot to do with what's swimming round in your bloodstream. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > D&E, 100ug thyroxine > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 I really am thinking I've done this to myself. What you are saying about the liver creating glucose when I don't eat makes sense of what is happening to me, I think. I've never ate regularly or in a healthy way. Actually even though I've usually ate just once a day, its a small meal but mostly carbs. I will try what everyone is recommending, eating at least three times a day, and try to pick healthy things, then test to see what happens. I've been sick all day from not taking the medicine properly. It made me sick to my stomach last week the first two days I took it, but then I started taking it during or after the meal and was doing great. Last night I didn't feel like eating a meal, so I just ate a handful of nuts and took the pill. I woke up sick during the night, felt lousy all day, and forced myself to eat some soup and take the pill again tonight. Probably just one of the many bumps in the road I'm about to experience, right? Thanks everyone for the links to information. I've got my work cut out for me trying to find things I can eat, that I would also LIKE to eat. You've all made my day telling me cheese is probably OK. That is one thing the dietician pointed out to me - I ate a lot of cheese, and she told me I should eat very little, so I quit. I'm going to buy myself a big chunk of cheese and do some testing with it!!! >I'm obsessed with not getting a belly, and anytime I have gained any >weight that is where it seems to go. Part of the diabetes profile - weight will go on your waist. > So, in the mornings I do ab >excersizes. And, I LOVE to dance, so almost every night when I get [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >quickly, but definatley a more enjoyable way to do chores. My doctor >thinks its funny, but great. :o) Sounds way cool :D >I really am thinking I've done this to myself. Yeah, dreadfully casual choice of grandparents. Shame on you. >Thanks everyone for the links to information. I've got my work cut >out for me trying to find things I can eat, that I would also LIKE to >eat. You've all made my day telling me cheese is probably OK. That >is one thing the dietician pointed out to me - I ate a lot of cheese, >and she told me I should eat very little, so I quit. I'm going to buy >myself a big chunk of cheese and do some testing with it!!! It's my ambition to find a dietician who controls her diabetes with d&e - and therefore might be worth talking to. The dietician I spoke to was into oatmeal and breakfast cereal in a big way, and as I'd been testing these things before I met her, she and I did not see eye to eye. Personally, a nice cheese omelette for breakfast is a pleasant change from my usual flaxseed porridge, and I keep a chunk of Brie in the fridge for snack attacks. Have fun testing : ) Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >> Yup; could be me - borderline GTT aged 10; T2 dx age 43. No apparent >> history in the family, but the endo explained that was because my [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > and she told me I should eat very little, so I quit. I'm going to buy > myself a big chunk of cheese and do some testing with it!!! http://www.diabetic-talk.org/freeveggies.htm enjoy! kate >> Yup; could be me - borderline GTT aged 10; T2 dx age 43. No apparent >> history in the family, but the endo explained that was because my [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >out there with a very similar profile, especially when it sounds as if >you really doing will with it Yes check your family history not just for diabetes but cardiovascular problems including death, but also the characteristic high lipids and high BP for no apparent reason. The "thrifty gene" theory suggests in conditions of food scarcity the Type 2 genetics are a survival trait, enabling us to survive famines, but feasts kill us. ..................... >> Nice to hear a newbie talk about exercise! What are you doing? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >quickly, but definatley a more enjoyable way to do chores. My doctor >thinks its funny, but great. :o) And why not? I walk a lot, including (as today) carrying all the shopping back uphill, and do stuff like gardening and housework. I do stuff "wrong" deliberately, like if I have something to take upstairs and something to bring down, I will go upstairs and bring the thing down, then go upstairs *again* taking the other thing with me. Some how exercise fitted into everday life works just as well and is more satisfying than stuff you do just for the sake of it. ................... >> Cholesterol is mostly made by the liver; what you eat doesn't have an >> awful lot to do with what's swimming round in your bloodstream. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> eating lots of small meals than a single large one, and trying to keep >> your bg as solid as possible. Yes the New Zealand thing is not just "five a day" but five *colours* a day >I really am thinking I've done this to myself. What you are saying >about the liver creating glucose when I don't eat makes sense of what [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >again tonight. Probably just one of the many bumps in the road I'm >about to experience, right? It is called "metfartin" for a reason. usually the side effects abate over time, especially if you start with a low dose and work up slowly, but while the ER version is generally better tolerated than the standard type this ain't necessarily so for everyone. I believe it's best taken with food but YMMV. >Thanks everyone for the links to information. I've got my work cut >out for me trying to find things I can eat, that I would also LIKE to >eat. You've all made my day telling me cheese is probably OK. That >is one thing the dietician pointed out to me - I ate a lot of cheese, >and she told me I should eat very little, so I quit. I'm going to buy >myself a big chunk of cheese and do some testing with it!!! Your dietician appears to have the right attitude to carbs, mine couldn't have me eating enough of them - and when the result on my lipids and blood pressure was so appalling I was accused of being non-compliant with her diet. She also recommended against avocados which happen to contain a particularly good form of fat. The main type of fat which everyone should avoid is trans fat, certain types of saturated fat may not be such a good idea, mono- and polyunsaturated fats are not only not as bad as they have been painted but are actually dietary necessities, particularly Omega 3s as in fish, but I quite happily eat cheese because it has a high Satiety Index (as always Medosa has some good stuff on this http://www.mendosa.com/satiety.htm so a little bit keeps you feeling full for longer, also it goes well with some carbs as it slows their intake and conversion to glucose. Quentin Grady's posts are a mine of information on dietary matters. Those who are smarter know why: http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeSmart Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com Brethren of the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/ChristianBrethren > Hello everyone, Thank you very much for the info I've found here > while trying to sift through it all. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Sorry so long....... >> Hello everyone, Thank you very much for the info I've found here >> while trying to sift through it all. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] >> >> Sorry so long....... No worries. I picked this up after it was crossposted to alt.support.diabetes.uk, by the way, so I'm writing from Britain. To answer some of your points:- Your Body Mass Index is within the recommended limits. If you're active outside work that's good, too. It's not only sugar that matters, although it causes immediate problems, as much as your total carbohydrate load. Some carbs are worse than others, oats are not too bad for you, as they are a slow acting carbohydrate. You do still need some carbohydrate in your diet, though. The fact that the metformin has had such a good effect is good news, as it means your pancreas isn't too badly damaged yet. If you keep your weight about where it is, & don't eat too much carbohydrate, that may last for quite some time before you progress to the next stage of treatment. Fatty meat is not good for cholesterol, so trim the fat off the beef, use lean meat for making burgers & lose the chicken skin. Microwave your meat instead of frying it, or cook it as a stew or casserole & skim the fat off the top. Oily fish contains Omega 3 fats, which can help in avoiding raised cholesterol levels. Your cholesterol levels are set to a large extent by internal factors, with less than a quarter due to diet under normal circumstances. Exercise helps, as does eating sensibly. There is anecdotal evidence that oatmeal (Porridge for breakfast, maybe?) can help keep your cholesterol down a bit. Testing your blood glucose level before, 1 & 2 hours after meals for a while will help you get a handle on what's happening, as will testing after each time you eat a new food. Up to 9 times a day to start with, then, but once you get used to it all, you can cut back quite a bit. Think of it as an investment in extending your healthy life span. The morning test is what a lot of medical people recommend as a baseline reading, & if this changes, you need to find out why. If you're newly diagnosed, read this:- http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm and Alan's stuff here:- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/10/d-day.html As for "Why me?" In spite of Chung's ranting about eating too much & VAT, nobody really knows. There's a genetic component, but that's by no means the whole story. Incidentally, when I was diagnosed & started treatment, I went from needing 10 hours of sleep a night with naps during the day to being able to go 36 hours without sleep if necessary, so it's not all bad. ;-) None of us *want* to be here, but as we are, we try & make the best of it.  SignatureTciao for Now! John. > As for "Why me?" > > In spite of Chung's ranting about eating too much & VAT, nobody really > knows. Actually, we know that gastric bypass surgery cures type-2 diabetes by VAT loss **before** there is significant weight loss. Therefore, it remains smarter to **choose** to eat less, down to the right amount: http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeSmart Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com Brethren of the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/ChristianBrethren >> As for "Why me?" >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, And this helps the original poster how? The gastric bypass is said by the researchers who performed the trial to work at reversing the progress of diabetes by changing the operation of the gastric nerves. Nothing to do with VAT, nothing to do with eating less. Eating less cannot have the same effect on the nerves involved as surgery. There is also a high risk of bad side effects including death from the gastric bypass surgery. It is *strongly* contraindicated in people who are not drastically overweight, according to the studies. Are you suggesting that we should all have gastric bypasses to prevent diabetes? Damn, I've got suckered into responding again. > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > > And this helps the original poster how? It answers the question "Why me?" > The gastric bypass is said by the researchers who performed the trial to > work at reversing the progress of diabetes by changing the operation of > the gastric nerves. Those who are doing the surgery are reporting a cure rate of 95%. This is dependent on the successful reduction in the size of the stomach to that of ones thumb. > Nothing to do with VAT, nothing to do with eating > less. Incorrect. When the capacity of the stomach is drastically reduced as described above, folks are physically forced to eat less. > Eating less cannot have the same effect on the nerves involved as > surgery. There is no controlled alteration in nerves, which are not even visualizable during the procedure. Indeed, gastric banding, which also works to cure type-2 diabetes definitely does not involve the transection of any nerves either seen or unseen. > There is also a high risk of bad side effects including death > from the gastric bypass surgery. It is *strongly* contraindicated in > people who are not drastically overweight, according to the studies. Thankfully, the 2PD-OMER Approach is a non-surgical equivalent to gastric bypass surgery. > Are you suggesting that we should all have gastric bypasses to prevent > diabetes? It remains smarter to eat less, down to the right amount to loss the VAT (black fat) in order to cure the insulin resistance (IR/MetS) and possibly also the type-2 diabetes: http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeSmart > Damn, I've got suckered into responding again. Actually, it is the folks with their heads in the sand who suck dirt like satan, the snake, who has been the source of all lies from the outset: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Stupidsatan Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com Brethren of the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/ChristianBrethren > No worries. I picked this up after it was crossposted to > alt.support.diabetes.uk, by the way, so I'm writing from Britain. Wow, that is awsome! Hopefully I didn't do something wrong to cause a "crosspost"? But it is really encouraging to get so many responses, advice, and links for me to research. > To answer some of your points:- > It's not only sugar that matters, although it causes immediate problems, > as much as your total carbohydrate load. Some carbs are worse than > others, oats are not too bad for you, as they are a slow acting > carbohydrate. You do still need some carbohydrate in your diet, though. Please tell me I can still have at least a bit of chocolate now and then!!!! > The fact that the metformin has had such a good effect is good news, as > it means your pancreas isn't too badly damaged yet. If you keep your > weight about where it is, & don't eat too much carbohydrate, that may > last for quite some time before you progress to the next stage of treatment. Are you saying that I can't keep it from progressing, even if I try very hard to turn things around? Is it really going to keep creeping up on me, no matter what? > Your cholesterol levels are set to a large extent by internal factors, > with less than a quarter due to diet under normal circumstances. > Exercise helps, as does eating sensibly. There is anecdotal evidence > that oatmeal (Porridge for breakfast, maybe?) can help keep your > cholesterol down a bit. I did try the oatmeal first off on the cholesterol, but it didn't seem to make a dent. In fact, everything I tried did not help on the cholesterol, it just kept going up, or with the meds, came down, but not enough. > and Alan's stuff here:- > > http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/10/d-day.html OH WOW, Alan's blog covers the "why me" & says "Forget the hype and the TV ads about obesity (10-15% of type 2's are normal or underweight at diagnosis), lifestyle, whatever - that's in the past, even if it was relevant, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it." You couldn't have provided a link for my current state that was any more relevant that that!!! > -- > Tciao for Now! > > John.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Now, I've got another question that I'm sure some of you could help me with. I have started testing 1 and 2 hours after a meal, and I am getting very different results. I had been doing searches for info to try to explain this, and I found it right away on Alans page. But, I'm still a little confused on it. Is it better to peak slower, or faster? Or, in other words, is that significant as to how that particular food or meal works for me? Most have been quite a bit higher at 2 hours than one, but up to 20 more on the second reading. For example the soup I ate last night - 99 at 1 hr, 121 at 2 hrs. And this morning I took a rice cake with me to work to eat for breakfast, and it was 169 at 1 hour, and 105 at 2 hours. So, even though it went down to 105 this morning within 2 hours, it still went too high and I should not eat rice cakes anymore? The good news is that mornings are staying under 100 consistently with the meds. I just need to get the peaks and what they mean worked out. > > No worries. I picked this up after it was crossposted to > > alt.support.diabetes.uk, by the way, so I'm writing from Britain. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Please tell me I can still have at least a bit of chocolate now and > then!!!! Many diabetics can tolerate a piece of chocolate now and then due to the high fat content. Dark chocolate is best. > > The fact that the metformin has had such a good effect is good news, as > > it means your pancreas isn't too badly damaged yet. If you keep your [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > very hard to turn things around? Is it really going to keep creeping > up on me, no matter what? Actually, many of us have not progressed since learning to keep our BGs under control. It's my observation that those who were fortunate enough to catch it early have had the best chance of not progressing. Nevertheless, even those who have not stopped the progression altogether have delayed it, slowed it, which is also a very good thing. You'll probably live to die of something else. ;-p > > Your cholesterol levels are set to a large extent by internal factors, > > with less than a quarter due to diet under normal circumstances. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > cholesterol, it just kept going up, or with the meds, came down, but > not enough. For many diabetics oatmeal spikes our BGs. When you get a BG spike, you aren't helping your cholesterol. > > and Alan's stuff here:- > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > news is that mornings are staying under 100 consistently with the > meds. I just need to get the peaks and what they mean worked out. I hope someone can help you with your question about the timing of spikes. It's outside of my experience. However, yes, you've established that rice cakes are not for you :-) Best regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise >> > No worries. I picked this up after it was crossposted to >> > alt.support.diabetes.uk, by the way, so I'm writing from Britain. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Many diabetics can tolerate a piece of chocolate now and then due to >the high fat content. Dark chocolate is best. I'm eating some now (Green & Blacks or Lindt 85% but only one square at a time, I can get away with it as I just ate a relatively low carb meal) >> > The fact that the metformin has had such a good effect is good news, as >> > it means your pancreas isn't too badly damaged yet. If you keep your [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >altogether have delayed it, slowed it, which is also a very good >thing. You'll probably live to die of something else. ;-p This paper had a major effect on my thinking http://www.medscape.com/viewprogram/145 you need to register but they never spam you and are a major resource of interesting papers - the CME papers are sufficiently behind the leading edge of research as to be relatively trustworthy BUT note who is sponsoring them, they *can* be poorly concealed marketing puffs. In retrospect from what I've learned here from others' experience and read elsewhere in other more recent papers I'd say that there is not *one* diabetic progression but many, like different roads converging on the same city. I was born in the suburbs and have spent my life driving round the ring-road with occasional dips into the suburbs of neuropathy, but never progressed particularly quickly until the dietician put me on the low-fat high-carb nightmare diet. Other people may have no problems until later life, still others may have a rapid transit from normal to diabetes from certain drugs (steroids, atypical antipsychotics, Agent Orange to name but a few). Either way you can probably reverse *some* symptoms if you catch them early enough, you can certainly slow down the progression markedly and you may even be able to paralyse it for a while. >> > Your cholesterol levels are set to a large extent by internal factors, >> > with less than a quarter due to diet under normal circumstances. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >For many diabetics oatmeal spikes our BGs. When you get a BG spike, >you aren't helping your cholesterol. I can't do oatmeal either, some can in the evening but not in the morning, however I can do oatcakes: others can do steel-cut oats rather than the quick-cook type. YMMV. >> > and Alan's stuff here:- >> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >spikes. It's outside of my experience. However, yes, you've >established that rice cakes are not for you :-) Glycemic Load is the best explanation, in general my meals with my pancreatic output generally give the highest peaks around the 1 hour mark. Slower meals (low GI carbs plus fat) will peak later or provide a slow steady non-peaking glucose level if accompanied by exertion. However I can go high at 1 hour, normal at 2 hours and substantially below normal at 3 - 4 hours, which not everyone does. This is where only you can determine your own personalised response with your meter. If you initially test a lot until you determine your own patterns you can cut back on the testing later when you are better able to predict your response. > On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:00:07 -0700 (PDT), "Michelle C." > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > leading edge of research as to be relatively trustworthy BUT note who > is sponsoring them, they *can* be poorly concealed marketing puffs. Thank you, I'll follow the link and register so that I can read it. > In retrospect from what I've learned here from others' experience and > read elsewhere in other more recent papers I'd say that there is not [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > transit from normal to diabetes from certain drugs (steroids, atypical > antipsychotics, Agent Orange to name but a few). I had no idea those things had links to diabetes, other than what I am now learning about the problem with carbs. > >> Now, I've got another question that I'm sure some of you could help me > >> with. I have started testing 1 and 2 hours after a meal, and I am [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > can cut back on the testing later when you are better able to predict > your response.- Hide quoted text - Isn't below normal even more dangerous? I'm still working on testing, and I'm finding out that a lot of what I thought was fine for me to eat is not at all good for me. So basically I'm starting from scratch. I'm sure everyone here has or is going through the same discovery process. Its very frustrating. I've just been trying things that I already have, and am making a list of what to get on my next trip to the store from the various things I'm reading here and on the links people have provided. I found that I can have a bacon and cheese sandwich for breakfast made with weight watchers bread, and stay under 130. :o) !!!!!!! One of the ladies at work gave me some of the breat to try. A number of people at work follow weight watchers. I've never had any good results with ANY breads so I was not expecting good results. I've had that for breakfast two mornings in a row, with the same good readings, so I'm very happy about that discovery. I just make it the night before, then heat it up at work midmorning. PERFECT! BUT, tonight I got the highest reading I've EVER had. And, I checked it twice because I thought it was a bad reading, but the second was just as bad. I ate tacos, which I love, and have been just fine for me, or so I thought. But I also ate a chocolate cookie. They are sugar free Sorba(?) made with splenda. 1 hr was 286, and I just took the 2 hr reading and it is still 186. I can't imagine how that cookie could have made the difference, or if it was the combination, or what. And that darn cookie wasn't even all that good. I'll try eating just the tacos next time, no cookie, and see what happens. ....And I will definately buy some of that dark chocolate you all have been recommending. Sounds wonderful, and a square every so often would work just fine for me. My sweet cravings are pretty much all about chocolate. Oh well, tomorrow is another day...... Sorry, the 286 was a typo - the first reading was 256. I had never had a reading over 200 before. > Sorry, the 286 was a typo - the first reading was 256. I had never > had a reading over 200 before. You've never had a reading over 200 before that you caught with your meter. Your A1c shows that a reading over 200 is a more common event than you thought though. No worries! You're taking control and you will get it whipped. It just takes time--and lots of testing. Best regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise On Mar 13, 2:24 pm, Trinkwasser <s...@devnull.com.invalid> wrote: > On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:00:07 -0700 (PDT), "Michelle C." > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > leading edge of research as to be relatively trustworthy BUT note who > is sponsoring them, they *can* be poorly concealed marketing puffs. Thank you, I'll follow the link and register so that I can read it. > In retrospect from what I've learned here from others' experience and > read elsewhere in other more recent papers I'd say that there is not [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > transit from normal to diabetes from certain drugs (steroids, atypical > antipsychotics, Agent Orange to name but a few). I had no idea those things had links to diabetes, other than what I am now learning about the problem with carbs. > >> Now, I've got another question that I'm sure some of you could help me > >> with. I have started testing 1 and 2 hours after a meal, and I am [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > can cut back on the testing later when you are better able to predict > your response.- Hide quoted text - Isn't below normal even more dangerous? -- Yes. Also known as a hypo. I'm still working on testing, and I'm finding out that a lot of what I thought was fine for me to eat is not at all good for me. So basically I'm starting from scratch. I'm sure everyone here has or is going through the same discovery process. Its very frustrating. I've just been trying things that I already have, and am making a list of what to get on my next trip to the store from the various things I'm reading here and on the links people have provided. I found that I can have a bacon and cheese sandwich for breakfast made with weight watchers bread, and stay under 130. :o) !!!!!!! One of the ladies at work gave me some of the breat to try. A number of people at work follow weight watchers. I've never had any good results with ANY breads so I was not expecting good results. I've had that for breakfast two mornings in a row, with the same good readings, so I'm very happy about that discovery. I just make it the night before, then heat it up at work midmorning. PERFECT! BUT, tonight I got the highest reading I've EVER had. And, I checked it twice because I thought it was a bad reading, but the second was just as bad. I ate tacos, which I love, and have been just fine for me, or so I thought. But I also ate a chocolate cookie. They are sugar free Sorba(?) made with splenda. 1 hr was 286, and I just took the 2 hr reading and it is still 186. I can't imagine how that cookie could have made the difference, or if it was the combination, or what. And that darn cookie wasn't even all that good. I'll try eating just the tacos next time, no cookie, and see what happens. -- Many sugar-free products are high in other carbs they use as a substitute, and are just as bad on your blood glucose. -- ....And I will definately buy some of that dark chocolate you all have been recommending. Sounds wonderful, and a square every so often would work just fine for me. My sweet cravings are pretty much all about chocolate. Oh well, tomorrow is another day...... > ....And I will definately buy some of that dark chocolate you all have > been recommending. Sounds wonderful, and a square every so often > would work just fine for me. My sweet cravings are pretty much all > about chocolate. > > Oh well, tomorrow is another day...... http://HeartMDPhD.com/Parable > > On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:00:07 -0700 (PDT), "Michelle C." > [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > what to get on my next trip to the store from the various things I'm > reading here and on the links people have provided. You're right--we've all gone through it, and even though I've been doing this since 2005, I still run across foods I haven't tested before and have to check them. And we've all had surprises about foods we thought *should* be okay, but weren't. That's why the test, test, test motto. I would suggest keeping good notes. :-) > I found that I can have a bacon and cheese sandwich for breakfast made > with weight watchers bread, and stay under 130. :o) !!!!!!! One of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > so I'm very happy about that discovery. I just make it the night > before, then heat it up at work midmorning. PERFECT! Yea! It's always great to find something that works. :-) > BUT, tonight I got the highest reading I've EVER had. And, I checked > it twice because I thought it was a bad reading, but the second was [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > what. And that darn cookie wasn't even all that good. I'll try > eating just the tacos next time, no cookie, and see what happens. Actually, I'm not surprised by your reading at all. The taco shells and the cookie are full of carbs. Even if the sugar in the cookie is replaced by sorbitol, the cookie is still made of refined wheat flour which will hit your system much like sugar. I suspect the taco shells aren't much better. > ....And I will definately buy some of that dark chocolate you all have > been recommending. Sounds wonderful, and a square every so often > would work just fine for me. My sweet cravings are pretty much all > about chocolate. > > Oh well, tomorrow is another day......- Hide quoted text - Hang in there! You've taken the bull by the horns and you're doing a good job! Best regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise > - Show quoted text - Smarter to simply eat less, down to the right amount: http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeSmart A simply parable to help promote understanding among the wise and discerning: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Parable Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com Brethren of the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/ChristianBrethren > > > On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:00:07 -0700 (PDT), "Michelle C." > > [quoted text clipped - 113 lines] > > > > - Show quoted text - >> On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:00:07 -0700 (PDT), "Michelle C." >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Thank you, I'll follow the link and register so that I can read it. Plenty of other interesting papers to be found there, it's an excellent resource. If you don't understand one paper try reading some others, you'll gain some grounding in the physiology of what's going on. >> In retrospect from what I've learned here from others' experience and >> read elsewhere in other more recent papers I'd say that there is not [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >I had no idea those things had links to diabetes, other than what I am >now learning about the problem with carbs. Type 1 is principally a catastrophic auntoimmune response, often like many autoimmune diseases following a seemingly mild infection. Type 2 has a strong genetic basis (many very obese people are not diabetic, some skinny fit folks are, contrary to what the meeja would have you believe) however there are many triggering factors including most anything which causes chronic inflammation, and there's a nasty feedback loop where high blood glucose causes further damage which makes high BG more likely. Steroids will often put BG up temporarily, and sometimes it turns into overt diabetes. Likewise pregnancy. >> >> Now, I've got another question that I'm sure some of you could help me >> >> with. I have started testing 1 and 2 hours after a meal, and I am [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >Isn't below normal even more dangerous? Temporarily - but Type 2s don't tend to do the extreme hypos that Type 1s can be prone to, usually our livers will kick in and bring the BG back up unless you're on insulin or insulin-stimulating drugs. The problem with high BG is long term, it's one of the factors causing the cardiovascular damage, neuropathy, retinopathy etc. and also one of the factors increasing damage to the pancreas. Best to try not to stray too far from "normal" in either direction, this gets easier with time and experience. >I'm still working on testing, and I'm finding out that a lot of what I >thought was fine for me to eat is not at all good for me. So [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >what to get on my next trip to the store from the various things I'm >reading here and on the links people have provided. Stick with it, you'll probably get some surprises in both directions, but you can have a very tasty and varied diet once you've worked out your personal no-nos. >I found that I can have a bacon and cheese sandwich for breakfast made >with weight watchers bread, and stay under 130. :o) !!!!!!! One of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >so I'm very happy about that discovery. I just make it the night >before, then heat it up at work midmorning. PERFECT! Now see what happens when you only use *one* slice <G> Also you may find it works better in the evening, the only time I can eat bread without unacceptable spikes (some folks eat their breakfast cereal at night) >BUT, tonight I got the highest reading I've EVER had. And, I checked >it twice because I thought it was a bad reading, but the second was [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >what. And that darn cookie wasn't even all that good. I'll try >eating just the tacos next time, no cookie, and see what happens. Probably the fat in the tacos caused the carbs to turn to glucose relatively slowly and the cookie hit on top of the peak from the meal? My highest number ever, higher even than the GTT, came from eating on top of a liver dump. Well I was SOOOO HUNGRY . . . >....And I will definately buy some of that dark chocolate you all have >been recommending. Sounds wonderful, and a square every so often >would work just fine for me. My sweet cravings are pretty much all >about chocolate. > >Oh well, tomorrow is another day...... Keep a graph of your numbers, you'll probably find a lot of variation at first then things will settle down as you learn what to avoid and what to eat instead, and also as your insulin resistance decreases. I can get away with stuff now (should I need to) that I couldn't handle this time last year. You can also increase the Metformin to 2000 mg/day, probably your doctor is starting you low and working the dose up later to avoid the farting and nausea, keep him in touch with your numbers and see what he suggests. Once you get your BG under control your lipids will most likely improve and you may be able to reduce the Lipitor, also your BP may come down, these are all connected features of the disease. Do you have a profile of your lipids - HDL and LDL cholesterol and triglycerides and the ratios between them are all useful things to know (and to watch improve). > >BUT, tonight I got the highest reading I've EVER had. And, I checked > >it twice because I thought it was a bad reading, but the second was [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > My highest number ever, higher even than the GTT, came from eating on > top of a liver dump. Well I was SOOOO HUNGRY . . . I've seen that reference about the liver dump a number of times, along with somewhat of an explanation. But, can you predict that? Or how do you know that happened? Sorry if that sounds like questions. > >....And I will definately buy some of that dark chocolate you all have > >been recommending. Sounds wonderful, and a square every so often [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > can get away with stuff now (should I need to) that I couldn't handle > this time last year. I am keeping it on a spread sheet, what I ate, and what the readings were, so I can see what worked, what didn't, and what variations had an impact. I did that before when I was just checking in the mornings, but again, I am finding that was not so helpful, and actually was probably very misleading. > You can also increase the Metformin to 2000 mg/day, probably your > doctor is starting you low and working the dose up later to avoid the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > triglycerides and the ratios between them are all useful things to > know (and to watch improve). Thankfully I don't have high BP. Mine has always been great. Is that usually a part of all of this too? I don't know all the numbers on the HDL, LDL or triglycerides. My doctor has told me what they were as this has progressed, but I haven't written them down to keep track of them. I know that the HDL has been too high, and as of her phone call week before last - that with the megadose of Lipitor it is now down to 113, but she said that she would like it to be 70 or less (that I did jot down during the call), because of my health risk. And, I remember her saying before that the LDL was too low, and triglycerides too high, but I didn't write them down. Plus, she told me the A1C was now 8.1 and that she wanted it down below 7 at least. I do love my doctor. She is very kind, patient, and compassionate with me. Seems always willing to talk or spend whatever time with me is needed. But, usually I just kind of freeze up, and don't ask the questions that I should. Often she plows ahead and just asks me the questions needed to get any relevant info. Because of that, she knows I've been going through some very difficult personal issues over the last couple of years, which don't help at all. When I moved here, I saw several doctors before finally settling with one I felt comfortable with. I feel fortunate to have found her. I have no family out here with me, so it will be pretty easy to buy and cook only what I should. I guest that is one positive of living by yourself with no longtime friends or family any where nearby. She also told me that since the high dose of Lipitor hasn't quite done what she'd like, I should consider trying another, like Crestor. She tried to give me that first off, but I refused because of the scary reports on it at that time. Hopefully, what you all are saying about getting the BG under control will help me get the cholestrol down, and I can quit or at least reduce the Lipitor. -Linda <<she told me the A1C was now 8.1 and that she wanted it down below 7 at least.>> jmho that's pretty high. i'd skp the taco shells right now...if you were 130 after 2 hours that isnt all that great...it should be under 120 and closer to 110. try wrapping all your taco fixings onto a romaine leaf. until you are in better control try to keep the carbs down. if you feel you really want those tacos on shells split them up. eat one. just one. then test at one hour and two. i eat pizza...1/8 piece of a frozen yummy pizza...and its ok. but if i eat 1/4 of the pizza all at once i'm doomed. same with spaghetti. i halve the portion. you will learn how to adjust as time goes on and its just automatic. what i do is spread 3 meals out over the course of a day into 6 slots. i am eating continuoisly but actually normally...save the fruit for a snck instead od eating it as desert and have a smal item of protein wth it to slow it from hitting your system too fast. my goal is an A1C under 6. aound here they call it 5% club...eveyone i wecome anencouraged to join! ;-) > I don't know all the numbers on the HDL, LDL or triglycerides. My > doctor has told me what they were as this has progressed, but I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > write them down. Plus, she told me the A1C was now 8.1 and that she > wanted it down below 7 at least. I bet if you keep up the learning curve the way you have, you'll eventually be able to blow your doctor's socks off by getting that A1c down into the 5's. :-) Your triglyceride number is directly linked to your BG number/carb intake. Next time you have lab work done, be sure to get a copy of the results. That way you can see your progress, AND you can share them with us. ;-) We love to see good reports. > I do love my doctor. She is very kind, patient, and compassionate > with me. Seems always willing to talk or spend whatever time with me [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > saw several doctors before finally settling with one I felt > comfortable with. I feel fortunate to have found her. It's always great to find a compassionate doctor. Many of us have trouble when we get into the doctor's office remembering to ask all we need know. So a lot of us make a list of questions to take with us. If you freeze up, you can just hand her the list. > I have no family out here with me, so it will be pretty easy to buy > and cook only what I should. I guest that is one positive of living [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > will help me get the cholestrol down, and I can quit or at least > reduce the Lipitor. I bet you'll see big improvements in the lipid numbers once your BG is always staying below 140mg/dl. I agree with you, I wouldn't change anything about your cholesterol lowering meds until you get your BG consistently it should be--because you may not need it or not need as much of it. Best regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise I do love my doctor. She is very kind, patient, and compassionate with me. Seems always willing to talk or spend whatever time with me is needed. But, usually I just kind of freeze up, and don't ask the questions that I should. --------------------------------------------------------- Write it down! During the week or two before your appointments, just jot down any thoughts or questions that come to you. (or even start making notes almost as soon as you get home from each appointment) Then the day before, organize it all by topic & priority. Use a big pad of paper & leave space around each question & topic for your notes during the discussion with the doctor. Go through all your prescriptions & note which you need new ones for now & when you'll need new scrips for the others. Think ahead, don't cut the "need new" too close to your next planned appointment. Then pull that pad out as soon as your walk in the door! (one of my doctors just chuckled when I did this, as in "I see you brought your list with you....") I know it seems like doing "homework" -- well -- IT IS! And it pays off in visit-efficiency & usefulness. Your doctor will appreciate it, I'm sure. No matter how much time they spend with a patient, they never really have *enough* time overall. bj > > > [ . . . ] > I don't know all the numbers on the HDL, LDL or triglycerides. My [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > write them down. Plus, she told me the A1C was now 8.1 and that she > wanted it down below 7 at least. [] Linda, I think you might have HDL and LDL reversed. HDL is good cholesterol. Mine is over 100. LDL is the cholesterol that clogs your arteries and veins. Mine is around 35. It's those Sicilian genes! SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >> >BUT, tonight I got the highest reading I've EVER had. And, I checked >> >it twice because I thought it was a bad reading, but the second was [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >with somewhat of an explanation. But, can you predict that? Or how >do you know that happened? Sorry if that sounds like questions. Many people get a liver dump inthe morning before breakfast, the so-called Dawn Phenomenon. In normal people the liver will naturally pour out extra glucose to get you up and moving, and the pancreas will "cover" the dose with insulin to enable you to metabolise it. We tend to get the liver dump of glucose without the insulin so our numbers will shoot up without eating anything. I don't do that *but* if I over-exert myself in the morning that wakes my liver up, unless I've already manipulated my BG up to anticipate it. Later in the day this is less likely to happen. It's another pattern you have to discover for yourself, I'm afraid. >> >....And I will definately buy some of that dark chocolate you all have >> >been recommending. Sounds wonderful, and a square every so often [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >mornings, but again, I am finding that was not so helpful, and >actually was probably very misleading. Well yes and no, it's only part of the pattern, you really need to discover the Big Picture. My belief is that "Type 2" is actually a whole bunch of similar but different diseases with some factors in common - some people lose control of the fasting numbers first, many find the postprandials go first and the fasting numbers later, some find they are more stable and can eat more carbs in the morning but most of us find the opposite . . . you're doing the right thing to find out your specific patterns, and what to do about them. >> You can also increase the Metformin to 2000 mg/day, probably your >> doctor is starting you low and working the dose up later to avoid the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Thankfully I don't have high BP. Mine has always been great. Is that >usually a part of all of this too? Usually but again not always. My lipids were the first to go followed by the BP - in retrospect my postprandials had been up the duff for years but since my doctors only measured my FBG which is still normal they never noticed. The weight gain came last of all. "Metabolic syndrome" is the name given to this pattern which is normally associated with overweight and it's related to the insulin resistance. In our family the insulin resistance seems to be more prominent in skinny fit people than the fat ones <sigh> just once it'd be good to be normal <G> you seem to have some similar features >I don't know all the numbers on the HDL, LDL or triglycerides. My >doctor has told me what they were as this has progressed, but I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >write them down. Plus, she told me the A1C was now 8.1 and that she >wanted it down below 7 at least. See if you can get a printout of your lipids "for your records", it's good to see the improvement on paper. I'm confident you'll get a handle on this quite quickly and surprise her by joining the 5% club sooner than you expect. >I do love my doctor. She is very kind, patient, and compassionate >with me. Seems always willing to talk or spend whatever time with me [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >saw several doctors before finally settling with one I felt >comfortable with. I feel fortunate to have found her. I've had some absolute dingbats in the past, likewise it's good to find one you can actually work with. Make notes and take them with you, she has notes why can't you? >I have no family out here with me, so it will be pretty easy to buy >and cook only what I should. I guest that is one positive of living >by yourself with no longtime friends or family any where nearby. So long as you don't get sucked into "comfort eating". Yes you'll miss out on those helpful people saying "Oh just the one won't hurt" while offering you a heart attack in a cookie . . . >She also told me that since the high dose of Lipitor hasn't quite done >what she'd like, I should consider trying another, like Crestor. She [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >will help me get the cholestrol down, and I can quit or at least >reduce the Lipitor. Try it for a while, these things take time but you're heading in the right direction. I'm unlikely to drop my simvastatin, my current diet and BG improvements have made huge improvements in my HDL and especially trigs but my LDL did go up a bit (not enough to be dangerous considering the ratios) OTOH my BP has dropped to the extent we're looking at reducing my Olmesartan dose: once again this pattern can differ between individuals, some have gotten off the statins completely, or replaced them with other substances such as Pantethine and Niaspan, others need them in perpetuity. : BUT, tonight I got the highest reading I've EVER had. And, I checked : it twice because I thought it was a bad reading, but the second was [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] : what. And that darn cookie wasn't even all that good. I'll try : eating just the tacos next time, no cookie, and see what happens. Great news about that breakfast! I discovered tht I coul dhave abaoaut 1/3-1/2 C cottage cheese, handfuls of about 3 fruits lke 3 strawberries, a handful of blue, black or raspberries, a1/2 peach(small) i apricot, 1/4 small aple,1/5-1/6 of a mango, NO BANANAS, topped with 1/4-1/3 C of PLAIN yogurt and feel content and nver spike. I have also recently found a fake OJ that is not bad and has no carbs. Chrystal-Light puts it out an it is called "Sunrise" Classic orange flavor. About that 256 reading. I think it ws a come of the taco and the cookie. the taco has a full carb tortilla(unless you used a low carb one), beans and some sauce that may well have soem carbs in it, as well as that cookie. What do yu get for a reading with just the taco? I know it would do bad things to MY bgs, but yu may well find you can handle it. : ....And I will definately buy some of that dark chocolate you all have : been recommending. Sounds wonderful, and a square every so often : would work just fine for me. My sweet cravings are pretty much all : about chocolate. I get the Lindt 85% cocoa bar and have 2 squares worth about 4 grs of carb and I nibble it to make it last longer. It is so intensely cocolate that it satisfies me. I also make a chocolate mousse ade with silken tofu, cocoa powder and melted unsweetened baking chocolate and the artificial sweetener of your chice (I like either Splenda or Equal( Aspertame). You are doing very well adn wew hope to coninue to hear of your great progress. Wendy > Great news about that breakfast! I discovered tht I coul dhave abaoaut > 1/3-1/2 C cottage cheese, handfuls of about 3 fruits lke 3 strawberries, a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > OJ that is not bad and has no carbs. Chrystal-Light puts it out an it is > called "Sunrise" Classic orange flavor. I haven't tried and tested with fruit yet. I love watermelon, and know that is not a good choice. You mentioned strawberries and peaches, I really like both of those. Don't care for other berries, and hate bananas. I'll add some fruit to my grocery list. > About that 256 reading. I think it ws a come of the taco and the cookie. > the taco has a full carb tortilla(unless you used a low carb one), beans > and some sauce that may well have soem carbs in it, as well as that > cookie. What do yu get for a reading with just the taco? I know it would > do bad things to MY bgs, but yu may well find you can handle it. I had two tacos before with just lean ground beef, seasoning, sauce, cheese, and loads of lettuce along with a glass of wine, and was 130 at 2 hr. (Didn't check at 1 hr). That is one of my favorite meals, so I was very happy. I also like the same with shredded chicken in place of beef. Have you ever seen low carb taco shells? I would get them if I could find any. > : ....And I will definately buy > some of that dark chocolate you all [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > cocoa powder and melted unsweetened baking chocolate and the artificial > sweetener of your chice (I like either Splenda or Equal( Aspertame). I'll look for that kind of chocolate. Not so sure about the chocolate mousse. I've never tried tofu before. > You are doing very well adn wew hope to coninue to hear of your great > progress. > > Wendy Thank you, Wendy! -Linda > I had two tacos before with just lean ground beef, seasoning, sauce, > cheese, and loads of lettuce along with a glass of wine, and was 130 > at 2 hr. (Didn't check at 1 hr). That is one of my favorite meals, > so I was very happy. I also like the same with shredded chicken in > place of beef. Have you ever seen low carb taco shells? I would get > them if I could find any. Hi Linda, Next time you eat your taco meal be sure to check at one hour. :-) I don't know about low carb taco shells, but I eat low carb tortillas, so perhaps there is a low carb taco shell too. The low carb tortillas brand is Mission. Also wanted you to know (in case you don't already) that the glass of wine with dinner will give you slightly lower numbers--which is good. :-) So since you already have the habit stick with it. The liver can't dump glucose at the same time it's processing alcohol. (There is a limit to it's a benefit though. I tried eating French fries after a couple of low carb beers. If I'd had just a few fries I would have been fine, but I ate more than I should and the alcohol didn't prevent a spike. Still it does give a little more leeway.) Best regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise > > I had two tacos before with just lean ground beef, seasoning, sauce, > > cheese, and loads of lettuce along with a glass of wine, and was 130 [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > would have been fine, but I ate more than I should and the alcohol > didn't prevent a spike. Still it does give a little more leeway.) Hi Michelle, I, personally prefer a rich beer like Omegang or Guinness, but I know what it does to my BG, so I rarely have it. I do like dry Italian red wines, but my drink d'jour is Vodka. Zero carbs. You might find this beer comparison chart of interest. Also, note her other pages. http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art14302.asp SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ > > > I had two tacos before with just lean ground beef, seasoning, sauce, > > > cheese, and loads of lettuce along with a glass of wine, and was 130 [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Hi Nick, I *know* a lot people don't care for low carb beer, but like you, regular beer will spike my BG if I have more than one (and I usually do--can't shoot pool without it ;-). I usually drink Miller Lite. However, I also like Corona Lite and Tecate Lite for a change of pace. I've been drinking low carb for so long now, the regular beer tastes pretty heavy. As for Vodka, if I'm having just one drink and plan for a nap afterwards, it's great. ;-) Thanks for the link. I'll give it a look. Best regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise > > [ . . . ] > Hi Nick, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines]</ |
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