Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / March 2008
On Onions, Eyes and Other Things, from the Archives
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Alan S - 02 Mar 2008 22:04 GMT I may be embarrassing Quentin, but I am posting this one from the archives to save it from heading into extinction with time. This specific post led to several changes in my diet, including fish, orange capsicums[peppers] onions and other herbs that I still include today.
You will find this version posted by Annette and the context here: http://tinyurl.com/yo2xeu. I couldn't find Quentin's original post.
From Annette, May 17 2004
'Many thanks Quentin for those links on best food sources for zinc.
For a general and easily followed description of dietary zinc and it's importance for maintaining good health, see; http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual_home2/sec12/ch155/ch155l.jsp
I found a post on foods for the eyes by Quentin that I saved, simply because it was SO good, and had that element of fun that is so typical of our favourite nutrition guru!
With apologies (but sadly no money) to Quentin, here it is in all it's glory.
Annette (Who likes it when the hero sweeps her up onto his horse!) ;-)
"1. Control blood glucose tightly. The eyes don't have insulin receptors so don't require insulin to transfer glucose into the eyes in the way muscles do. What this means if blood glucose is high then glucose rushes into the eye just as the sea rushes into inlets when the tide is high.
2. Glucose in the eye can be converted to sorbitol by an enzyme called aldose reductase. Picture sorbitol like the bloke with a black hat in a Western. When the bloke on the horse with a black hat rides into town something bad is going to happen. The sombre music tells you so. You can't be sure of which plot the Western will follow ... there are only a few but something real bad is going to happen when the black hatted guy rides in to the theme of "Sorbitol, Sorbitol, Sorbitol who you gunna bowl?"
Fortunately is Westerns worthy of the name there are blokes who wear white hats, aldose reductase inhibitors, Ari for short. All good Westerns have a bit of tear jerking but it better be brief so we can get on an enjoy the action. In the shoot out between Sorbitol and Ari, the tear jerking element is onion. Onion is an excellent source of biologically available Quercetin. (Any resemblance to my own name is entirely coincidental.) Quercetin is an excellent antioxidant great for curing hay fever ... told you this was a tear jerker. It doesn't matter if you fry up the onion in a pan on a camp fire, Quercetin can take it just don't pour it down the drain. Whatever, Quercetin saves the day and stops aldose reductase from converting glucose to Sorbitol and your eyes are saved from numerous fates worse than death.
3. If you can't stop Sorbitol from riding around shooting up things the next best thing is having him corralled in a box canyon. Enter stage left to great applause ... Taurine. Taurine keeps sorbitol boxed up with osmotic pressure. Taurine is an amino acid found in fish especially shellfish and fish hearts etc, meat that hasn't been over cooked. Eat some green lipped mussels or sardines. Steak that gallops onto your plate has more taurine than one grilled to death.
4. OK, Westerns were black and white but the audience demanded more. They wanted colour. Now at first the colours weren't very good. People got a bit confused with their colours and thought beta carotene from carrots were good for eyes. Bugs Bunny got a lot of good press when the real hero was Olive Oil who no doubt nagged Popeye just a little bit to eat his spinach. Spinach looks green but it hides some good yellow stuff called lutein (yellow) that protects the peripheral regions of the eye from the ravages of blue and ultraviolet light.
Lutein does a wonderful job in providing sunglasses INSIDE the eye. Young people need the sunglasses effect of lutein because their eyes are clear. Older people need the antioxidant effects of lutein because ... they are old. The clock of ages gallops for T2 diabetics who don't take care. Wait don't send money. There is more. Spinach has a special bonus offer ... orange centres. The central foveal regions of the eyes NEED ORANGE ... a very special orange. Nah, not beta carotene. Beta carotene is a wannabe. THE orange is zeaxanthin. Now it is kind of special. While lutein is in most things green or yellow zeaxanthin is less widely distributed. Spinach is often a good source though it varies. So is open leaf cabbage ie collards.
Orange capsicums are the ultimate source. Persimmons are excellent.
In some countries the likely sources are going to be the green culinary herbs eg dill, coriander, parsley. The Mexicans have it nailed with marigold petals.
(My note - that marigold is Calendula, not Tagetes, BTW. Annette )
4. Some general antioxidants help; bilberries, blue berries, Vit E, astaxanthin (the pink stuff in salmon and prawns.) Lowering oxidative stress is smart thinking.
BUT remember there are no substitutes for lutein and zeaxanthin for the sunscreen effects. Other bioflavanoids will not do.
>Do things like carrots and stuff carry them, or do you need stronger >colourings such as beetroot? Carrots are great for lungs, its mostly the alpha carotene. Beetroot has its benefits elsewhere but the post is already long.
Adios Amigo. "
PS If this appears twice - my apologies; I did something wrong the first time.
But it bears repeating anyway:-)
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest: The Quality of ADA Dietary Advice
Quentin Grady - 03 Mar 2008 05:02 GMT G'day G'day Alan,
In all of us there is childlike part that needs to be caught when it is good. Even today when I reread that post I'm reminded of the little details that are easily forgotten. It was the culmination of a series of posts on the topic. I enjoyed writing it and others have enjoyed reading it. My guess is it has helped many people whom I've never met including many whose names I'll never know.
If by some chance you happen to have or could find some tables I produced and posted here of zeaxanthin levels in various foods I'd appreciate it for the third edition.
Thanks, Quentin.
>I may be embarrassing Quentin, but I am posting this one >from the archives to save it from heading into extinction [quoted text clipped - 128 lines] >d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg >Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.  Signature Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading."
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
Alan S - 03 Mar 2008 08:37 GMT >If by some chance you happen to have or could find some tables I >produced and posted here of zeaxanthin levels in various foods I'd >appreciate it for the third edition. Is this it? I knew there was a reason why I and a small portion of corn kernels to my stir-fry and salad mix:-)
http://tinyurl.com/ypxmg7 http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diabetes/msg/c37c9f6923b701ef?
Quentin Grady Nov 6 2005, 7:37 am
G'day G'day Folks,
In numerous posts I've pointed out the value of deep green vegetables and orange peppers as a source of zeaxanthin, the crucial orange substance protecting the most vital part of the retina in the eye called the macula. The macula degenerates in old people gradually destroying their ability to see fine detail. This degeneration is greatly accelerated in diabetics who do not control blood glucose tightly. As an adjunct it is crucial to increase intake of zeaxanthin and to lose body fat if in excess. Body fat diverts the fat soluble zeaxanthin from the eyes to the body fat accelerating the rate at which the eyesight deteriorates.
For some reason I have largely ignored the importance of corn as a source of zeaxanthin. The most obvious is that the references I had available suggested lower values of zeaxanthin. Zeaxanthin is orange so if the corn is pale yellow or white it would have little zeaxanthin.
The following site provides a simple to read table of zeaxanthin content.
http://www.mdsupport.org/library/zeaxanthin.html
What foods are highest in zeaxanthin content?
Here are the foods which are known to be high in zeaxanthin, listed in order from highest to least (>100mcg/100g serving), according to the Lutein and Zeaxanthin Scientific Review:
Pepper, orange, raw 1608 Corn, sweet, yellow, canned 528 Persimmons, Japanese, raw 488 Corn, frozen, cooked 375 Spinach, raw 331 Turnip greens, cooked 267 Collard greens, cooked 266 Lettuce. cos or romaine, raw 187 Spinach, cooked 179 Kale, cooked 173 Tangerine, mandarin 142
There are several other reasons why I have reconsidered the value of sweet corn and coarse corn meal. One has been feedback on asd that some people are finding cornmeal products that don't spike them in the way one might expect from their carbohydrate content.
The following site provides some fascinating information.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=126
The material on corn is found at
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=90
Take special note of the material written with blue background. Remember polyphenols those wonderful compounds that help recycle Vit C and transfer antioxidant capacity between Vit C (water soluble) and Vit E (fat soluble). Well it seems the polyphenol content of corn has been seriously underrated by researchers because they used the same technique that they had for measurement on vegetables on grains. In vegetables the polyphenols were in a free form, in grains they were bound. IF and its a big IF it doesn't matter whether the polyphenols are free or bound then the value of corn has been seriously underrated.
Best wishes,
 Signature Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading."
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest: The Quality of ADA Dietary Advice
Alan S - 03 Mar 2008 08:44 GMT >In vegetables the polyphenols were in a free form, >in grains they were bound. IF and its a big IF it doesn't >matter whether the polyphenols are free or bound then the >value of corn has been seriously underrated. A post-script. I use corn in moderation; small portions that I've adjusted by use of my meter.
For those who are surprised that Quentin suggests using corn in his post, read further down that thread and read his reply to Jenny on that subject http://tinyurl.com/yrko7o
There are very few foods we cannot eat. However, there are some foods that require more testing than others to discover the right portion size, timing and foods they can be used with.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest: The Quality of ADA Dietary Advice
Quentin Grady - 04 Mar 2008 01:26 GMT G'day G'day Alan,
Thanks.
That is a fabulous reminder bringing back all sorts of gems.
Firstly that we are different from rats. Rats are adapted to living in the dark so have a high proportion of rods and very few cones. Rods are used for detecting movement especially peripherally ie out the corner of our eyes. Cones are used for colour vision. Japanese quail were used in the feeding experiments because like us they are picky eaters who eat in the daylight. <grin>
Secondly there is confirmation that lutein (the yellow colour needed for our rods) is plentiful in marigolds. Marigolds as the richest source is used for making lutein supplements. Zeaxanthin which we need more desperately is found in about one twentieth of the quantity in marigolds. I have some difficulty with these statements since it is obvious to even the most casual observer that the colour of marigolds vary from yellow to orange. (This assumes they are talking about calendula and they might not.) The orange versions have more orange. Well they would, wouldn't they. So if one is making calendula soup then go for the orange petal varieties. Apparently we need 10 mg/day to meet therapeutic requirements. This is a lot and won't happen by chance.
Now many if not most T2 diabetics are in that situation where they need to meet the therapeutic levels.
Why?
Well for those who are obese, zeaxanthin is being diverted to body fat instead of the central portion of the eye where it is disparately needed.
Secondly, many T2s are in catch up mode. For years they are likely to have eaten egg whites discarding the yolks in the belief that by so doing they are avoiding cholesterol and heart attacks.
This ignores two bits of scientific knowledge. One is that vastly more cholesterol is produced by the body than comes from food. Also the yolks contain TWO crucial factors relating to zeaxanthin and eye protection. Yolks from free range eggs at least contain zeaxanthin in a highly available form. Yolks are better than some other forms such as spinach for instance. The second factor is that the yolks contain a B group vitamin that isn't often talked about called choline. It doesn't get talked about because we need it in large amounts, too large to go in incy tincy little tablets of multivitamins in worthwhile amounts. Like cholesterol, choline is fat like and aids absorption of the zeaxanthin.
Moral: Eat whole free range eggs for the sake of one's eyes if you can.
Corn has been undervalued for many years as a source of polyphenols since most its polyphenol content is bound rather that free as is the case with vegetables such as spinach.
Oh. Was this the table I was looking for? Sadly NO.
The table here while useful is quite incomplete. It doesn't for instance include orange capsicums (bell peppers). We composed the table from various sources and it would be most valuable to have. I recall your participation in this matter.
Best wishes, Quentin.
Please ask if you need further explanation.
>>If by some chance you happen to have or could find some tables I >>produced and posted here of zeaxanthin levels in various foods I'd [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] >Best wishes, >  Signature Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading."
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
Alan S - 04 Mar 2008 05:32 GMT >The table here while useful is quite incomplete. It doesn't for >instance include orange capsicums (bell peppers). We composed the >table from various sources and it would be most valuable to have. >I recall your participation in this matter. I'll do another search.
Note the table again; you may have missed something at the head of the list:
Pepper, orange, raw 1608 Corn, sweet, yellow, canned 528 Persimmons, Japanese, raw 488 Corn, frozen, cooked 375 Spinach, raw 331 Turnip greens, cooked 267 Collard greens, cooked 266 Lettuce. cos or romaine, raw 187 Spinach, cooked 179 Kale, cooked 173 Tangerine, mandarin 142
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest: The Quality of ADA Dietary Advice
Quentin Grady - 04 Mar 2008 06:27 GMT >>The table here while useful is quite incomplete. It doesn't for >>instance include orange capsicums (bell peppers). We composed the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Kale, cooked 173 >Tangerine, mandarin 142 I find tables can vary in a scary fashion. One had red peppers having more zeaxanthin than orange. However most suggest red peppers not only has less, it has virtually none. Maybe it depends on the variety of red pepper. Orange pepper is the safe certain choice. Collards often get a very high rating. As with all greens though it is bound to depend on variety and growing conditions. Put simply, don't get too carried away with numbers and eat a wide variety to eat wisely. Wrinkly lettuce like Lolo Rosa do better than the hearting varieties.
>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. >d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg >Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. For those who were interested in the marigold solution the marigolds used are Tagetes Erectus, American Marigold sometimes known as African Marigold or tall marigold Google has wonderful images showing these marigolds. They might not all be suitable for supplement manufacture.
http://images.google.com/images?q=tagetes+erecta&um=1&ie=UTF-8
That leaves undecided the question of whether calendula soup would work.
Doing a search of my own hard drive I've found more information but not original ASD post. It is a matter of where one's search engine searches.
 Signature Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading."
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
BettyB - 03 Mar 2008 21:17 GMT >I may be embarrassing Quentin, but I am posting this one >from the archives to save it from heading into extinction >with time. This specific post led to several changes in my >diet, including fish, orange capsicums[peppers] onions and >other herbs that I still include today. . . . Excellent post snipped for brevity . . .
>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. >d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg >Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. Thanks Alan. I remembered most of the info but not all. -- BettyB -- www.flamingo-code.com "I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road." - Stephen Hawking
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