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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / March 2008

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On Onions, Eyes and Other Things, from the Archives

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Alan S - 02 Mar 2008 22:04 GMT
I may be embarrassing Quentin, but I am posting this one
from the archives to save it from heading into extinction
with time. This specific post led to several changes in my
diet, including fish, orange capsicums[peppers] onions and
other herbs that I still include today.

You will find this version posted by Annette and the context
here: http://tinyurl.com/yo2xeu. I couldn't find Quentin's
original post.

From Annette, May 17 2004

'Many thanks Quentin for those links on best food sources
for zinc.

For a general and easily followed description of dietary
zinc and it's importance for maintaining good health, see;
http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual_home2/sec12/ch155/ch155l.jsp

I found a post on foods for the eyes by Quentin that I
saved, simply because it was SO good, and had that element
of fun that is so typical of our favourite nutrition guru!

With apologies (but sadly no money) to Quentin, here it is
in all it's glory.

Annette
(Who likes it when the hero sweeps her up onto his horse!)
;-)

"1.  Control blood glucose tightly.  The eyes don't have
insulin receptors so don't require insulin to transfer
glucose into the eyes in the way muscles do.  What this
means if blood glucose is high then glucose rushes into the
eye just as the sea rushes into inlets when the tide is
high.

2.  Glucose in the eye can be converted to sorbitol by an
enzyme called aldose reductase.  Picture sorbitol like the
bloke with a black hat in a Western.  When the bloke on the
horse with a black hat rides into town something bad is
going to happen.  The sombre music tells you so.  You can't
be sure of which plot the Western will follow ... there are
only a few but something real bad is going to happen when
the black hatted guy rides in to the theme of "Sorbitol,
Sorbitol, Sorbitol who you gunna bowl?"

Fortunately is Westerns worthy of the name there are blokes
who wear white hats, aldose reductase inhibitors, Ari for
short.   All good Westerns have a bit of tear jerking but it
better be brief so we can get on an enjoy the action.  In
the shoot out between Sorbitol and Ari, the tear jerking
element is onion.  Onion is an excellent source of
biologically available Quercetin. (Any resemblance to my own
name is entirely coincidental.)  Quercetin is an excellent
antioxidant great for curing hay fever ... told you this was
a tear jerker.  It doesn't matter if you fry up the onion in
a pan on a camp fire, Quercetin can take it just don't pour
it down the drain.  Whatever, Quercetin saves the day and
stops aldose reductase from converting glucose to Sorbitol
and your eyes are saved from numerous fates worse than
death.

3.  If you can't stop Sorbitol from riding around shooting
up things the next best thing is having him corralled in a
box canyon.  Enter stage left to great applause ... Taurine.
Taurine keeps sorbitol boxed up with osmotic pressure.
Taurine is an amino acid found in fish especially shellfish
and fish hearts etc, meat that hasn't been over cooked.  Eat
some green lipped mussels or sardines.  Steak that gallops
onto your plate has more taurine than one grilled to death.

4.  OK, Westerns were black and white but the audience
demanded more. They wanted colour.  Now at first the colours
weren't very good. People got a bit confused with their
colours and thought beta carotene from carrots were good for
eyes.  Bugs Bunny got a lot of good press when the real hero
was Olive Oil who no doubt nagged Popeye just a little bit
to eat his spinach.  Spinach looks green but it hides some
good yellow stuff called lutein (yellow) that protects the
peripheral regions of the eye from the ravages of blue and
ultraviolet light.

Lutein does a wonderful job in providing sunglasses INSIDE
the eye. Young people need the sunglasses effect of lutein
because their eyes are clear. Older people need the
antioxidant effects of lutein because ... they are old.  The
clock of ages gallops for T2 diabetics who don't take care.
Wait don't send money.  There is more.  Spinach has a
special bonus offer ... orange centres.  The central foveal
regions of the eyes NEED ORANGE ... a very special orange.
Nah, not beta carotene.  Beta carotene is a wannabe.  THE
orange is zeaxanthin.  Now it is kind of special. While
lutein is in most things green or yellow zeaxanthin is less
widely distributed.  Spinach is often a good source
though it varies. So is open leaf cabbage ie collards.

Orange capsicums are the ultimate source.  Persimmons are
excellent.

In some countries the likely sources are going to be the
green culinary herbs eg dill, coriander, parsley. The
Mexicans have it nailed with marigold petals.

(My note - that marigold is Calendula, not Tagetes,  BTW.
Annette )

4.  Some general antioxidants help; bilberries, blue
berries, Vit E, astaxanthin (the pink stuff in salmon and
prawns.)  Lowering oxidative stress is smart thinking.

BUT remember there are no substitutes for lutein and
zeaxanthin for the sunscreen effects. Other bioflavanoids
will not do.

>Do things like carrots and stuff carry them, or do you need stronger
>colourings such as beetroot?

Carrots are great for lungs, its mostly the alpha carotene.
Beetroot has its benefits elsewhere but the post is already
long.

Adios Amigo. "

PS If this appears twice - my apologies; I did something
wrong the first time.

But it bears repeating anyway:-)

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest: The Quality of ADA Dietary Advice
Quentin Grady - 03 Mar 2008 05:02 GMT
G'day G'day Alan,

   In all of us there is childlike part that needs to be caught when
it is good.  Even today when I reread that post I'm reminded of the
little details that are easily forgotten.  It was the culmination of a
series of posts on the topic.  I enjoyed writing it and others have
enjoyed reading it.  My guess is it has helped many people whom I've
never met including many whose names I'll never know.

If by some chance you happen to have or could find some tables I
produced and posted here of zeaxanthin levels in various foods I'd
appreciate it for the third edition.  

Thanks,
Quentin.

>I may be embarrassing Quentin, but I am posting this one
>from the archives to save it from heading into extinction
[quoted text clipped - 128 lines]
>d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
>Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Alan S - 03 Mar 2008 08:37 GMT
>If by some chance you happen to have or could find some tables I
>produced and posted here of zeaxanthin levels in various foods I'd
>appreciate it for the third edition.  

Is this it? I knew there was a reason why I and a small
portion of corn kernels to my stir-fry and salad mix:-)

http://tinyurl.com/ypxmg7
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diabetes/msg/c37c9f6923b701ef?

Quentin Grady      
Nov 6 2005, 7:37 am

G'day G'day Folks,

In numerous posts I've pointed out the value of deep green
vegetables and orange peppers as a source of zeaxanthin, the
crucial orange substance protecting the most vital part of
the retina in the eye called the macula.  The macula
degenerates in old people gradually destroying their ability
to see fine detail.  This degeneration is greatly
accelerated in diabetics who do not control blood glucose
tightly.  As an adjunct it is crucial to increase intake of
zeaxanthin and to lose body fat if in excess.  Body fat
diverts the fat soluble zeaxanthin from the eyes to the body
fat accelerating the rate at which the eyesight
deteriorates.

For some reason I have largely ignored the importance of
corn as a source of zeaxanthin.  The most obvious is that
the references I had available suggested lower values of
zeaxanthin. Zeaxanthin is orange so if the corn is pale
yellow or white it would have little zeaxanthin.

The following site provides a simple to read table of
zeaxanthin content.

http://www.mdsupport.org/library/zeaxanthin.html

What foods are highest in zeaxanthin content?

     Here are the foods which are known to be high in
zeaxanthin, listed in order from highest to least
(>100mcg/100g serving), according to the Lutein and
Zeaxanthin Scientific Review:

Pepper, orange, raw           1608
Corn, sweet, yellow, canned    528
Persimmons, Japanese, raw      488
Corn, frozen, cooked           375
Spinach, raw                   331
Turnip greens, cooked          267
Collard greens, cooked         266
Lettuce. cos or romaine, raw   187
Spinach, cooked                179
Kale, cooked                   173
Tangerine, mandarin            142

There are several other reasons why I have reconsidered the
value of sweet corn and coarse corn meal.  One has been
feedback on asd that some people are finding cornmeal
products that don't spike them in the way one might expect
from their carbohydrate content.

The following site provides some fascinating information.

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=126

The material on corn is found at

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=90

Take special note of the material written with blue
background. Remember polyphenols those wonderful compounds
that help recycle Vit C and transfer antioxidant capacity
between Vit C (water soluble) and Vit E (fat soluble).  Well
it seems the polyphenol content of corn has been seriously
underrated by researchers because they used the same
technique that they had for measurement on vegetables on
grains. In vegetables the polyphenols were in a free form,
in grains they were bound. IF and its a big IF it doesn't
matter whether the polyphenols are free or bound then the
value of corn has been seriously underrated.

Best wishes,

Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest: The Quality of ADA Dietary Advice

Alan S - 03 Mar 2008 08:44 GMT
>In vegetables the polyphenols were in a free form,
>in grains they were bound. IF and its a big IF it doesn't
>matter whether the polyphenols are free or bound then the
>value of corn has been seriously underrated.

A post-script. I use corn in moderation; small portions that
I've adjusted by use of my meter.

For those who are surprised that Quentin suggests using corn
in his post, read further down that thread and read his
reply to Jenny on that subject http://tinyurl.com/yrko7o

There are very few foods we cannot eat. However, there are
some foods that require more testing than others to discover
the right portion size, timing and foods they can be used
with.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest: The Quality of ADA Dietary Advice
Quentin Grady - 04 Mar 2008 01:26 GMT
G'day G'day Alan,

  Thanks.  

That is a fabulous reminder bringing back all sorts of gems.  

Firstly that we are different from rats.  Rats are adapted to living
in the dark so have a high proportion of rods and very few cones.
Rods are used for detecting movement especially peripherally ie out
the corner of our eyes.  Cones are used for colour vision.  Japanese
quail were used in the feeding experiments because like us they are
picky eaters who eat in the daylight.  <grin>

Secondly there is confirmation that lutein (the yellow colour needed
for our rods) is plentiful in marigolds. Marigolds as the richest
source is used for making lutein supplements.  Zeaxanthin which we
need more desperately is found in about one twentieth of the quantity
in marigolds.  I have some difficulty with these statements since it
is obvious to even the most casual observer that the colour of
marigolds vary from yellow to orange.  (This assumes they are talking
about calendula and they might not.)  The orange versions have more
orange.  Well they would, wouldn't they.  So if one is making
calendula soup then go for the orange petal varieties.
Apparently we need 10 mg/day to meet therapeutic requirements.  
This is a lot and won't happen by chance.

Now many if not most T2 diabetics are in that situation where they
need to meet the therapeutic levels.  

Why?

Well for those who are obese, zeaxanthin is being diverted to body fat
instead of the central portion of the eye where it is disparately
needed.

Secondly, many T2s are in catch up mode.  For years they are likely to
have eaten egg whites discarding the yolks in the belief that by so
doing they are avoiding cholesterol and heart attacks.  

This ignores two bits of scientific knowledge.  One is that vastly
more cholesterol is produced by the body than comes from food.
Also the yolks contain TWO crucial factors relating to zeaxanthin and
eye protection.  Yolks from free range eggs at least contain
zeaxanthin in a highly available form.  Yolks are better than some
other forms such as spinach for instance.  The second factor is that
the yolks contain a B group vitamin that isn't often talked about
called choline.   It doesn't get talked about because we need it in
large amounts, too large to go in incy tincy little tablets of
multivitamins in worthwhile amounts. Like cholesterol, choline is fat
like and aids absorption of the zeaxanthin.

Moral:  
Eat whole free range eggs for the sake of one's eyes if you can.  

Corn has been undervalued for many years as a source of polyphenols
since most its polyphenol content is bound rather that free as is the
case with vegetables such as spinach.

Oh.  Was this the table I was looking for?    Sadly NO.

The table here while useful is quite incomplete.  It doesn't for
instance include orange capsicums (bell peppers).   We composed the
table from various sources and it would be most valuable to have.  
I recall your participation in this matter.  

Best wishes,
Quentin.  

Please ask if you need further explanation.

>>If by some chance you happen to have or could find some tables I
>>produced and posted here of zeaxanthin levels in various foods I'd
[quoted text clipped - 82 lines]
>Best wishes,
>
Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Alan S - 04 Mar 2008 05:32 GMT
>The table here while useful is quite incomplete.  It doesn't for
>instance include orange capsicums (bell peppers).   We composed the
>table from various sources and it would be most valuable to have.  
>I recall your participation in this matter.  

I'll do another search.

Note the table again; you may have missed something at the
head of the list:

Pepper, orange, raw           1608
Corn, sweet, yellow, canned    528
Persimmons, Japanese, raw      488
Corn, frozen, cooked           375
Spinach, raw                   331
Turnip greens, cooked          267
Collard greens, cooked         266
Lettuce. cos or romaine, raw   187
Spinach, cooked                179
Kale, cooked                   173
Tangerine, mandarin            142

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest: The Quality of ADA Dietary Advice
Quentin Grady - 04 Mar 2008 06:27 GMT
>>The table here while useful is quite incomplete.  It doesn't for
>>instance include orange capsicums (bell peppers).   We composed the
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>Kale, cooked                   173
>Tangerine, mandarin            142

I find tables can vary in a scary fashion.  One had red peppers having
more zeaxanthin than orange.  However most suggest red peppers not
only has less, it has virtually none.  Maybe it depends on the variety
of red pepper.  Orange pepper is the safe certain choice.  Collards
often get a very high rating.  As with all greens though it is bound
to depend on variety and growing conditions.  Put simply, don't get
too carried away with numbers and eat a wide variety to eat wisely.
Wrinkly lettuce like Lolo Rosa do better than the hearting varieties.

>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
>d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
>Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

For those who were interested in the marigold solution the marigolds
used are Tagetes Erectus, American Marigold sometimes known as
African Marigold or tall marigold   Google has wonderful images
showing these marigolds.  They might not all be suitable for
supplement manufacture.  

http://images.google.com/images?q=tagetes+erecta&um=1&ie=UTF-8

That leaves undecided the question of whether calendula soup would
work.

Doing a search of my own hard drive I've found more information but
not original ASD post.  It is a matter of where one's search engine
searches.
Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

BettyB - 03 Mar 2008 21:17 GMT
>I may be embarrassing Quentin, but I am posting this one
>from the archives to save it from heading into extinction
>with time. This specific post led to several changes in my
>diet, including fish, orange capsicums[peppers] onions and
>other herbs that I still include today.

. . . Excellent post snipped for brevity . . .

>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
>d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
>Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Thanks Alan.  I remembered most of the info but not all.
--
BettyB  --  www.flamingo-code.com
"I have noticed even people who claim everything is
predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it,
look before they cross the road." - Stephen Hawking
 
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