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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / March 2008

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Warning to newbies

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guys@consolidated.net - 29 Feb 2008 16:34 GMT
There are no qualifications  required to post here.

There no need for any mental qualifications or
examination for personality abnormalities to
post here.

Since diabetes can have dire results on your
health read this group with care.

Alleged expertise is not audited in any way here.

There are a few very qualified people here but
also some with debatable  information.

While a lot of docs are very limited in their
diabetic qualifications, It may be better to
only use a qualified diabetic specialist

Doing the wrong thing can lead to many
years of gross misery for you.

The so called experts posting here will not be
found  then.  A real doctor can be found
and is held responsible for his advice and his
behavior.

If you can locate a person, they can be liable
for any damage they cause you.  But
you will find that difficult to do after the fact.

 
misery for you.
Tiger_Lily - 29 Feb 2008 16:47 GMT
so, i take it that you can't specifically reply to a post that you don't
agree with, so you are willing to implicate EVERY post in this forum

Guy, are you really trying to help???  what happened to you?

kate

> There are no qualifications  required to post here.
>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>  
> misery for you.
Julie Bove - 29 Feb 2008 16:58 GMT
> so, i take it that you can't specifically reply to a post that you don't
> agree with, so you are willing to implicate EVERY post in this forum
>
> Guy, are you really trying to help???  what happened to you?

I feel like he is trying to take over the newsgroup.
guys@consolidated.net - 29 Feb 2008 17:06 GMT
>> so, i take it that you can't specifically reply to a post that you don't
>> agree with, so you are willing to implicate EVERY post in this forum
>>
>> Guy, are you really trying to help???  what happened to you?
>
>I feel like he is trying to take over the newsgroup.

Julie, it might be wise if you did not mention Guy.
Julie Bove - 29 Feb 2008 23:48 GMT
>>> so, i take it that you can't specifically reply to a post that you don't
>>> agree with, so you are willing to implicate EVERY post in this forum
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>
> Julie, it might be wise if you did not mention Guy.

Why?  What are you going to do to me?
Màck©® - 01 Mar 2008 14:51 GMT
>>> so, i take it that you can't specifically reply to a post that you don't
>>> agree with, so you are willing to implicate EVERY post in this forum
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>
>Julie, it might be wise if you did not mention Guy.

is that a cowards threat?

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

hemyd - 01 Mar 2008 06:33 GMT
(!!!!!)

Henry.

>> so, i take it that you can't specifically reply to a post that you don't
>> agree with, so you are willing to implicate EVERY post in this forum
>>
>> Guy, are you really trying to help???  what happened to you?
>
> I feel like he is trying to take over the newsgroup.
guys@consolidated.net - 29 Feb 2008 17:00 GMT
)u know what hapened.  It restored me to reality.   I will not
post  medical mformation  I am not qualified.   It could
be a dangerous thing to do.  It mght be best to read
my posts without assumptions.

I have played the fool to try to help.    Well I do not do that any
more.

I stand by my "warning to newbies" post.  It is factual and
very proper. It has the proper exceptions if you read it.

It is a shame that a few can destroy something very good.

But enough is enough.  The warning should be posted every day.

>so, i take it that you can't specifically reply to a post that you don't
>agree with, so you are willing to implicate EVERY post in this forum
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>>  
>> misery for you.
Alan S - 29 Feb 2008 21:20 GMT
>It is a shame that a few can destroy something very good.

Name the few. Your broad warning denigrates and undermines
all.

For someone who continually moans about the loss of value of
the usenet groups, you seem to be doing your utmost to
minimise the value of asd now that mhd appears to have
faded.

Why have you chosen to become part of the problem instead of
part of the solution?

Alan, T2, Australia.
guys@consolidated.net - 29 Feb 2008 23:07 GMT
>>It is a shame that a few can destroy something very good.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Alan, T2, Australia.

Alan, you know where the probem lies. There
is no solution.  People will be abusive to others.

When they are called on it, they scream like
stuck pigs.  The old " It is your fault" game.
Susan - 29 Feb 2008 23:24 GMT
> Alan, you know where the probem lies. There
> is no solution.  People will be abusive to others.
>
> When they are called on it, they scream like
>  stuck pigs.  The old " It is your fault" game.

Only you, Kurt and Reisa do that.

The rest of us have better things to do.

Susan
Julie Bove - 29 Feb 2008 23:48 GMT
> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> The rest of us have better things to do.

Jeepers.  I guess I forgot about the other two.  Haven't seen Reisa for a
while.  But how could I have forgotten about Kurt?
Susan - 01 Mar 2008 01:04 GMT
> Jeepers.  I guess I forgot about the other two.  Haven't seen Reisa for a
> while.  But how could I have forgotten about Kurt?

By the grace of god.

Susan
Kurt - 01 Mar 2008 02:01 GMT
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> > Jeepers. �I guess I forgot about the other two. �Haven't seen Reisa for a
> > while. �But how could I have forgotten about Kurt?
>
> By the grace of god.

Thank you, she'll be here all week, try the veal, and please tip your
waitress.

Oh come on, Susan, you're just mad because I can see right through
that pretend know-it-all persona of yours. It upsets you that I
realize you're just a big phony.

But do keep up the insults, I find them amusing. :)

Kurt
Màck©® - 01 Mar 2008 14:57 GMT
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>Jeepers.  I guess I forgot about the other two.  Haven't seen Reisa for a
>while.  But how could I have forgotten about Kurt?

Good Karma?

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

Trinkwasser - 03 Mar 2008 21:52 GMT
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>Jeepers.  I guess I forgot about the other two.  Haven't seen Reisa for a
>while.  But how could I have forgotten about Kurt?

Your killfile is working
Julie Bove - 29 Feb 2008 23:47 GMT
> Alan, you know where the probem lies. There
> is no solution.  People will be abusive to others.
>
> When they are called on it, they scream like
> stuck pigs.  The old " It is your fault" game.

The only *problem* I see here at the moment is you.  And I can't figure out
what you are going on about.
Tiger_Lily - 01 Mar 2008 02:08 GMT
>>> It is a shame that a few can destroy something very good.
>> Name the few. Your broad warning denigrates and undermines
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> When they are called on it, they scream like
>  stuck pigs.  The old " It is your fault" game.

guy............show some balls and name names!
Màck©® - 01 Mar 2008 14:56 GMT
>>>It is a shame that a few can destroy something very good.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>When they are called on it, they scream like
> stuck pigs.  The old " It is your fault" game.

yes Guy we know you do that when called on your abuse of other
posters.  You can chose to stop abusing them whenever you want.

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

Priscilla Ballou - 03 Mar 2008 18:31 GMT
> >It is a shame that a few can destroy something very good.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Why have you chosen to become part of the problem instead of
> part of the solution?

I believe the technical term is "change of mental status."  I hope he's
being monitored by someone in his real life so whatever's affecting him
can be identified.  Perhaps it's meds interacting, or maybe it's just
mental disintegration.  I think it's been a couple of years since I
publicly stated my opinion that he's senile.  I haven't seen anything to
argue against that, but not all apparent senility is necessary or
irreversible.  That's the problem with internet acquaintances.  One
doesn't have connection with anyone else in their life to give the
head's up to.

If he weren't disrupting the group I'd just killfile him (again) and
suggest prayers, but he's doing damage in his illness.  Does anyone know
anyone in his off-net life?

Priscilla, T2
Cheri - 03 Mar 2008 18:47 GMT
Priscilla Ballou wrote in message ...

>> >It is a shame that a few can destroy something very good.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
>Priscilla, T2

I believe Diana has a telephone relationship with he and his wife, but
I haven't seen Diana in awhile now. I hope you're doing well Diana.

Cheri
Julie Bove - 29 Feb 2008 23:46 GMT
> )u know what hapened.  It restored me to reality.   I will not
> post  medical mformation  I am not qualified.   It could
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> But enough is enough.  The warning should be posted every day.

What in the hell are you going on about?

Nobody here claims to be an expert.  Well nobody that's not in my killfile
anyway...  Heh.

If people are going to post to or read Usenet, it would behoove them to read
about Netiquette and all that jazz.  If they are going to blindly believe
anything they see anywhere, then they must have a very sad or scary
existence.  Luckily most people are not that way.

For you to say that you need to post this warning every day is very
condescending.  You are talking down to all of Usenet and that's quite sad
indeed.
BlueBrooke - 03 Mar 2008 19:07 GMT
>so, i take it that you can't specifically reply to a post that you don't
>agree with, so you are willing to implicate EVERY post in this forum
>
>Guy, are you really trying to help???  what happened to you?
>
>kate

Why is it I have a vivid image of someone rubbing his hands together
with glee and giggling hysterically?  Has no one else noticed that
many of the posts with the most responses lately are those rising to
Guy's bait?  

The group is falling apart?  No -- but seems to be wasting a lot of
time with this nonsense.  

I understand that a lot of people are concerned about Guy -- he does
seem to have some kind of weird mental "thing" going on, but pointing
that out to him doesn't seem to solve the problem.
Jefferson - 03 Mar 2008 20:04 GMT
>>so, i take it that you can't specifically reply to a post that you don't
>>agree with, so you are willing to implicate EVERY post in this forum
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> seem to have some kind of weird mental "thing" going on, but pointing
> that out to him doesn't seem to solve the problem.  

Most of those that have been around ASD for a while know Guy's history -
http://tinyurl.com/2lss2m.  I would not want to be in his shoe. No pun
intended.

Frank
Susan - 29 Feb 2008 17:12 GMT
> There are no qualifications  required to post here.
>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>  
> misery for you.

Just when you thought he couldn't sink any lower in his willingness to
try and destroy this group to further indulge his own need for attention.

Talk about misery; Guy peddles despair here, daily.  Fortunately, no one
is buying.

Susan
krom - 29 Feb 2008 17:43 GMT
For cripes sake guy you just crossed over into troll territory full
time..anything you might have done in the passed is now erassed to me!

You warn people to not listen to the advice given here when they are
reporting success and ARE working with doctors??

What point is all you crying that we dont help people when you then go and
make a post like this?

You have been on a serious decline and i was at the point of ignoring you
but you go to far.

Your only good for negativity and no mater how much concern other show to
you about this change you get worse and worse.

It really really pains me that you are either so sick..or so in need of
attention that all you can do is post negative ..barely understandable
rubbish and that i cant help you..and it seems nobody can reason with you.

Theres zero reason you need to behave this way towards this grou and fellow
posters.

It's been literally months and months since you had a rational discussion
about diabetes or support that was not a negative mess.

Whats sad is i respect you so much for all you have gone through that i
actually am pained to  to have to ignore you...but then i ask myself what is
he offering me as a poster?..is it support..no..is it info..no...is it
somthing possitive?..no.

You could have been the best person this group had but thats meaningless now
if you erase that good stuff with trash.
A person is only as good as thier current behaviour.

Anyhoo take care guy and get some help..

<plonk>

KROM

> There are no qualifications  required to post here.
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> misery for you.
Glenn - 29 Feb 2008 17:47 GMT
I must have been deleting unread posts too often
because I really don't know what this tirade is about
but in my own case I am lucky to have a doc that is a 4
shot a day diabetic.

I can tell him of things I do that deviates from his
pill prescriptions, IE for example knowing not to take
all of them with some kinds of meals and he knows me
well enough to say use your own judgment, you are the
one there.

> There are no qualifications  required to post here.
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> misery for you.
Priscilla Ballou - 03 Mar 2008 18:27 GMT
> I must have been deleting unread posts too often
> because I really don't know what this tirade is about

Don't worry.  It has no relationship to reality.

> but in my own case I am lucky to have a doc that is a 4
> shot a day diabetic.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> well enough to say use your own judgment, you are the
> one there.

Isn't it great when one finds a good one?  :-)

Priscilla, T2
Marvin The Paranoid Android - 29 Feb 2008 18:23 GMT
On Feb 29, 11:34 am, g...@consolidated.net wrote:
> There are no qualifications  required to post here.
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> misery for you.

Since I and my wife are likely the most recent Newbies, all I can say
is no need to fear.

I've used usenet for the better part of a decade, initially to find
out how to tweak my computer to produce decent framerates while
playing Quake 2 online.  With usenet, I realize you can take what you
need, and leave the rest.

As far as our experience with diabetes, it's been 12 days.  This
morning my wife's BG was 5.5.  Not bad I'd have to guess after being
diagnosed with a BG of 26.

Since we're being seen by and have access to the endocrinology unit at
the Ottawa Hospital, we'll follow their advice.  What I get from this
group is a wider perspective -- we can ask informed questions about my
wife's condition and her needs and possible risks.

I also loved the 'Don't Panic' comment -- classic -- good advice with
a dose of humour.  It's good to read of others experiences too --
diabete's doesn't appear to be a 'one-size-fits-all' solution, so what
might work well for one person may not for another.  We're all
different.

Anyhow ... off for a nap (a long week and I'm back to work tonight)

Thanks & Cheers,
The Androids.
bj - 29 Feb 2008 18:37 GMT
>> Since we're being seen by and have access to the endocrinology unit at
the Ottawa Hospital, we'll follow their advice.  What I get from this
group is a wider perspective -- we can ask informed questions about my
wife's condition and her needs and possible risks.

I've found one of the most valuable aspects of support groups is learning
*what the questions are*. Even the most authoritative & useful official (or
unofficial) sources can't tell you what you need to know if you don't know
that you should be looking there.

>>I also loved the 'Don't Panic' comment -- classic -- good advice with
a dose of humour.  It's good to read of others experiences too --
diabete's doesn't appear to be a 'one-size-fits-all' solution, so what
might work well for one person may not for another.  We're all
different.

Nothing quite like the real-life coping tips of those who have
BTDT & maybe even GTTS.
bj
percy - 29 Feb 2008 20:23 GMT
snip

> As far as our experience with diabetes, it's been 12 days.  This
> morning my wife's BG was 5.5.  Not bad I'd have to guess after being
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Thanks & Cheers,
> The Androids.

Hello, Androids

I've watched your progress and everything seems to be progressing
nicely. The false hypos suck but they won't last. Hopefully your doc's
goal in future is to separate the insulins so there will be more control
over postprandial numbers. A lot will depend on how tight the bg targets
are and other medical considerations. Everything's a variable.

BTW, is the endo clinic still at the Civic? I'm just across the river
and that's where I went almost 14 years ago 'cause I needed the DM ed
course in English. I never did take the course but I did see a nurse and
a dietitian. Small world, eh?

Keep up the good work, and, Mrs. Android, don't be shy! We bark and
growl and very occasionally snap, but we don't bite - honest!

:-)

Vicki
T1 pumper
Marvin The Paranoid Android - 29 Feb 2008 20:28 GMT
> snip
>
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> Vicki
> T1 pumper

The endo clinic is at the Riverside now -- they've converted it to a
'teaching hospital' now.  My wife's rheumatologist works from there
too (lupus is something else we're dealing with as well).

Cheers!

-- The Androids
Uncle Enrico - 29 Feb 2008 18:52 GMT
Some of what the original poster said is true, however, here's some good
news.

There is a depth of diabetes experience here that is of great value for
the newly diagnosed.  We hear newcomers praising ASD time and again.

There are many knowledgeable diabetics here who devote considerable time
and effort in helping the newly diagnosed.

There is a constant monitoring of the advice given here and plenty of
criticism when the advice doesn't meet the approval of those doing the
monitoring.

You'll notice a high decibel level of what appears to be "bickering."
Actually, this is free speech at work and a kind of "peer review" of the
sufferers of diabetes if you will.

True, the vast majority here are not physicians. But I was new to this
group 10 years ago and have stayed because of the good  information I've
gotten here. Often what I learned here was better info than what I was
getting at my doctor's office.

Obviously, one needs to be prudent about taking any advice from
non-professional strangers, but this is a good place to get a good
education about this disease from those who've been successfully living
with it for many years.

Also, the internet, Google and Yahoo search engines have been an
enormous help in keeping me healthy.

Test test test but also learn learn learn.

And finally, CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR WHENEVER YOU HAVE A QUESTION.
Andy - 29 Feb 2008 19:09 GMT
Uncle Enrico said...

> Some of what the original poster said is true, however, here's some good
> news.
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> And finally, CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR WHENEVER YOU HAVE A QUESTION.

I came here after being diagnosed T2 late last year. I was an avid Usenet
user and knew there had to be a newsgroup about it, found it and stepped
inside, avoiding the rigid structure of web forums, knowing full well it's
anarchy, as is any unmoderated (Moderated? who's got time for THAT!?! Very
few!!!) newsgroup.

With what I've learned doing my own research elsewhere AND from kindred
spirits here handing out free clues, my BG meter tells me my three month
average is 119 mgdl.

I might not take advice, but I'll keep it mind as things develop.

Best,

Andy
T2
HBP
Gout
:)
Cheri - 29 Feb 2008 20:15 GMT
Andy wrote in message ...

>I might not take advice, but I'll keep it mind as things develop.

To me, that's the key.

Cheri
Andy - 29 Feb 2008 20:25 GMT
Cheri said...

> Andy wrote in message ...
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Cheri

Thanks/agreed!

"I might not take advice, but I'll keep it in mind as things develop."
--Andy

Dammit! NOW you can quote me!!! ;)

Andy
Signature

T2
HBP
Gout

:)

"Always tell the truth. That way, you don't have to remember what you
said."
--Mark Twain
Susan - 29 Feb 2008 20:29 GMT
> To me, that's the key.

I agree.

I've never accepted anyone's word or advice for implementation until
reading everything I could to either support or refute it first, paying
careful attention to research methods and data, ignoring researcher's
stated conclusions, which are often not what the data and methodology
support at all.

Susan
Julie Bove - 29 Feb 2008 23:51 GMT
> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> stated conclusions, which are often not what the data and methodology
> support at all.

There are some people whose word I would believe on certain subjects.  For
example, if Quentin says something about diet, I am going to believe him.  I
feel he has already done the research.  But I do not unfailingly believe
everyone.
Susan - 01 Mar 2008 01:03 GMT
> There are some people whose word I would believe on certain subjects.  For
> example, if Quentin says something about diet, I am going to believe him.  I
> feel he has already done the research.  But I do not unfailingly believe
> everyone.

I accord some people, like Quentin, with very high credibility, but I
don't agree with his every conclusion.  I still have to make up my own
mind and do my own due diligence before implementing anyone's
recommendations.

Susan
Kurt - 29 Feb 2008 19:51 GMT
On Feb 29, 8:34�am, g...@consolidated.net wrote:
> There are no qualifications �required to post here.
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> misery for you.

Well said, Guy.  I think a warning, or rather an advisory, like this
should be posted at least once a month.

Kurt
Cheri - 29 Feb 2008 20:13 GMT
Kurt wrote in message

Well said, Guy.  I think a warning, or rather an advisory, like this
should be posted at least once a month.

Kurt

********

Aw c'mon, you're not satisfied with the once every hour now? :-)

Cheri
John - 29 Feb 2008 20:20 GMT
On Feb 29, 2:51 pm, Kurt

> Well said, Guy.  I think a warning, or rather an advisory, like this
> should be posted at least once a month.
>
> Kurt-

It should also mention the fact that the ADA recommended diet is
probably not a good idea for the majority of T2 diabetics. Unless of
course one is willing to balance that carb load with drugs/insulin.

John C.
latest A1c 5.5 d&e (off Glipizide for 4 months now!)
bj - 29 Feb 2008 21:24 GMT
On Feb 29, 2:51 pm, Kurt
> Well said, Guy. I think a warning, or rather an advisory, like this
> should be posted at least once a month.

>> It should also mention the fact that the ADA recommended diet is
probably not a good idea for the majority of T2 diabetics. Unless of
course one is willing to balance that carb load with drugs/insulin.

I wonder if anyone knows (or has any idea) how many T2s don't even go as far
as what the ADA recommends, let alone as far as many asd-ers recommend.

For a lot of people, the ADA diet would be a vast improvement over what
they've been doing. Tell them to go even more restricted & they might give
up altogether.

Plenty of them don't test  (won't, don't want to, outright refuse
to, etc. even if doctor would like them to & even if it isn't "as much" as
many in asd do or consider advisable) & don't always take their meds as
prescribed (not just for diabetes, either) -- because they don't feel like
they need to ("I feel fine!") not because they can't afford to (another
problem altogether).

I wonder if there have been asd lurkers who just say "I give up" when they
read about how strict they "should be" about things.
bj
Alan S - 29 Feb 2008 22:18 GMT
>On Feb 29, 2:51 pm, Kurt
>> Well said, Guy. I think a warning, or rather an advisory, like this
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>read about how strict they "should be" about things.
>bj

Of course there have. Not just here, but on every forum,
moderated or un-, good or bad.

But there have also been many lurkers who benefited. How do
we know? Because they later come out of "lurkdom" and post
on the group; and some are too shy but instead send
individual emails of thanks. I'm sure I'm not the only one
here to have received those.

You can't save the world. If we try to hurt none and if we
help just a few, even if they are a microscopic minority,
that is still a major achievement as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest: The Quality of ADA Dietary Advice
Cheri - 29 Feb 2008 22:35 GMT
bj wrote in message ...

>I wonder if anyone knows (or has any idea) how many T2s don't even go as far
>as what the ADA recommends, let alone as far as many asd-ers recommend.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>read about how strict they "should be" about things.
>bj

Just because someone lurks, doesn't mean they're not capable of
learning from others experiences, but then we'll never know since
they're lurkers. I don't get the "tell them to restrict themselves
even more, and they might give up altogether. Suppose we applied that
to smoking. Tell someone to restrict the number of cigarettes in a day
and they might give up trying to quit, so instead tell them to smoke
only 1 pack a day instead of 2 packs. I don't buy it. I say, you tell
them, and you keep telling them. What they do with the info is up to
them, but at least give the correct info instead of telling them
they've been non-compliant after it's gone downhill, and it will.

Cheri
Nicky - 29 Feb 2008 22:59 GMT
>On Feb 29, 2:51 pm, Kurt
>> Well said, Guy. I think a warning, or rather an advisory, like this
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>they've been doing. Tell them to go even more restricted & they might give
>up altogether.

At least if they get told the truth, they have the option to try the
lifestyle changes, or not. If what they're told is that, say, 250g
carbs a day is OK - when they might need 100g - simply because that
250g is better than the 400 they were eating; they're not being done
any favours, because they'll still be doing themselves daily damage.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
Kurt - 01 Mar 2008 01:08 GMT
> On Feb 29, 2:51 pm, Kurt
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> read about how strict they "should be" about things.
> bj

ITA, bj.  The ADA site is there as a reference point and the
recommendations they offer are simply that.  Each person has to work
with their healthcare team to determine their personal needs.  If
someone is basing their diabetes care based on their own
interpretation of what is on the site then they are doing themselves a
great disservice. I have no doubt that the extremely strict levels
that a few tell others they should achieve are incredibly unrealistic
for the average person.  This group is not represetative of the
general public, in many ways besides just diabetes.

Kurt
Kurt - 01 Mar 2008 00:13 GMT
> On Feb 29, 2:51�pm, Kurt
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> probably not a good idea for the majority of T2 diabetics. Unless of
> course one is willing to balance that carb load with drugs/insulin.

Well, first of all it is not a "fact" so posting that would be a lie.
And secondly, a number of amateurs in here already post that opinion
on a very regular basis. Maybe even (borrowing from Cheri) every hour!

Kurt
Cheri - 01 Mar 2008 00:42 GMT
Kurt wrote in message ...
On Feb 29, 12:20�pm, John <jcarne...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Feb 29, 2:51�pm, Kurt
>
> > Well said, Guy. �I think a warning, or rather an advisory, like
this
> > should be posted at least once a month.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> probably not a good idea for the majority of T2 diabetics. Unless of
> course one is willing to balance that carb load with drugs/insulin.

Well, first of all it is not a "fact" so posting that would be a lie.
And secondly, a number of amateurs in here already post that opinion
on a very regular basis. Maybe even (borrowing from Cheri) every hour!

Kurt

*********

Excuse me, but that Cjere to you today. ;-)

Cjere
Kurt - 01 Mar 2008 02:03 GMT
> Kurt wrote in message ...
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Excuse me, but that Cjere to you today. ;-)

Any relation to Bronson Pinchot's character in Beverly Hills Cop?

Kurt
Alan S - 29 Feb 2008 21:23 GMT
>On Feb 29, 8:34?am, g...@consolidated.net wrote:
>> There are no qualifications ?required to post here.
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
>Kurt

http://employees.csbsju.edu/tcreed/pb/pavcon.html

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest: The Quality of ADA Dietary Advice
Terryc - 01 Mar 2008 01:34 GMT
> There are no qualifications  required to post here.

Yep.

> There no need for any mental qualifications or
> examination for personality abnormalities to
> post here.

Yep. Almost free speech, but subject to any law in any country.

> Since diabetes can have dire results on your
> health read this group with care.

Yep.

> Alleged expertise is not audited in any way here.

Caveat Emptor. Your life, your decision.

> There are a few very qualified people here but
> also some with debatable  information.

Same as in the medical profession. Have you ever asked your doctor where
he/she gets his/her expertise from? have you ever asked him/her what
ongoing professional development they do?

> While a lot of docs are very limited in their
> diabetic qualifications, It may be better to
> only use a qualified diabetic specialist

Aaah, sadly,that advice can be very very dangerous. Sadly, many medical
professionals are poorly trained in areas that people think they are
competent in e.g. exercise, I did four years of study in exercise and
training, where as my doctor did 1 hour basic intro.

As to endos, it s just as bad. Many just apply a standard formula which
can be just as bad.

> The so called experts posting here will not be
> found  then.  A real doctor can be found
> and is held responsible for his advice and his
>  behavior.

Not really. They just buy an insurance policy, which is horrendously
expensive because so many of them make mistakes.

> If you can locate a person, they can be liable
> for any damage they cause you.  But
> you will find that difficult to do after the fact.

Works for doctors too. What is worse,the medical profession keeps
re-employing the incompetent and criminal ones.
b - 01 Mar 2008 02:35 GMT
> There are no qualifications  required to post here.
>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>  
> misery for you.

I think that any info you get on this N.G. can't be any worse than info
you get from your G.P.  I've been suffering from fatigue, blurred
vision, and numbness in hands and feet, that went undiagnosed for 12
years.  Luckily a friend figured it out and tested me.  The info on this
N.G. has been very helpful.  I am almost completely recovered.  My
vision is about 80% better, no more numbness, and fatigue has almost
disappeared.  I have a lot of respect for people on this N.G. that
devote their time to help others.  I have my life back.  :-)
Quentin Grady - 01 Mar 2008 06:32 GMT
>I think that any info you get on this N.G. can't be any worse than info
>you get from your G.P.  I've been suffering from fatigue, blurred
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>disappeared.  I have a lot of respect for people on this N.G. that
>devote their time to help others.  I have my life back.  :-)

Thank you Bob,

G'day G'day,

 Here's hoping you'll be made to feel especially welcome to ASD.  

ASD is a special place IMHO.  

It has been for a long time and only a few people go out of their way
to convey a contrary view.   There are people who share their empathy
for those in distress.  There are those who have long experience of
being a T1 and can spot in a trice when someone is doing something
dangerous with their meds. OK, they'll strongly suggest that doctors
should be consulted but they wont hesitate to share their experience.
Then there are those who ferret out the latest research.  They don't
make out they know everything. It is not that sort of group.  What
they are proud to do is to share what they've discovered and that is a
very different paradigm.   Many, many people will share their
experience with dealing with blurry eyes and numbness.  Many, many
people will help T2s get control of their blood glucose with exercise
and diet.

Most folks know I'm a teacher of long experience with adults and
willing to share my knowledge of nutrition with others.  They also
know I have multiple myeloma and have given me support. IMHO others
have worse conditions and find support.   In a nutshell that is what
ASD is about.  Sharing.  Real people.   Real support.

The world needs people like you who are prepared to acknowledge the
help they have received from others.   It seems awful to consider the
possibility that for some reason people like you are becoming rare.  

Let me on behalf of all participants on ASD thank you for your
generous thanks and extend the warmest of welcomes to you.
 
(Some might not be up to it today.  Don't worry.  
They have better days.)

Best wishes,
Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

percy - 01 Mar 2008 23:12 GMT
snip

> I think that any info you get on this N.G. can't be any worse than info
> you get from your G.P.  I've been suffering from fatigue, blurred
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> disappeared.  I have a lot of respect for people on this N.G. that
> devote their time to help others.  I have my life back.  :-)

I'm so very glad to hear this, Bob!

Keep up the good work - and yes, it will be work, but it's worth the
work to feel better.

Vicki
b - 02 Mar 2008 01:54 GMT
> snip
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Vicki

Thanx Vicki
Shawn Hirn - 01 Mar 2008 14:49 GMT
> There are no qualifications  required to post here.
>
> There no need for any mental qualifications or
> examination for personality abnormalities to
> post here.

So why should anyone here take what you have to say seriously?
Màck©® - 01 Mar 2008 14:49 GMT
>If you can locate a person, they can be liable
>for any damage they cause you.  But
>you will find that difficult to do after the fact.

how can you hold someone accountable before the fact?

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

Kurt - 03 Mar 2008 20:00 GMT
It is as dangerous to diagnose and treat someone's mental stability on
the Internet as it is to diagnose and treat someone with diabetes.
Especially when "evaluation" put on one member of this newsgroup could
be said about those who are making that evaluation.  None of the
armchair shrinks here are any more qualified to practice psychiatry
than they are to practice medicine.

There are several of the usual loudmouth know-it-alls  who are casting
stones while standing in the doorway of their glass house.  It's a lot
like people giving advice on diet and exercise and can't motivate
themselves to do either.

Just because you don't agree with someone's opinion in this newsgroup
does not mean that they are having psychological problems...in fact,
it might just be that you are the one experiencing them.

IMO, Guy made a lot of good points about how this newsgroup could be a
better place. Whatever this thread has turned into sure ain't one of
them.

Kurt
krom - 04 Mar 2008 05:52 GMT
All one can by is if they personally gain anything from reading the poster.
I dont find anything useful in guys negative postings.

One CAN however note a shift in a person posting style and demeaner..if a
poster dramatically shifts from say a positive poster to a negative one..one
might make note of the change.
While we cant truely treat or diagnose others we can certainly express
concern.

If we arent here to make the attempt at helping others then there is zero
reason to be here.

KROM

> It is as dangerous to diagnose and treat someone's mental stability on
> the Internet as it is to diagnose and treat someone with diabetes.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Kurt
Ozgirl - 04 Mar 2008 07:10 GMT
Ok, who kidnapped krom! You can't trick us with all those capitals.

> All one can by is if they personally gain anything from reading the
> poster.
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>>
>> Kurt
krom - 04 Mar 2008 12:02 GMT
Who cap what now?..lol

Your rooish talks frightens and confuses me....lol

KROM

> Ok, who kidnapped krom! You can't trick us with all those capitals.
>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>>>
>>> Kurt
Cheri - 04 Mar 2008 19:55 GMT
krom wrote in message ...
>Who cap what now?..lol
>
>Your rooish talks frightens and confuses me....lol
>
>KROM

:)

Ckito, one of the Chinese lurkers.
krom - 04 Mar 2008 20:35 GMT
No chinese would be pandaish talk..she was making with the roo speak.

KROM

> krom wrote in message ...
>>Who cap what now?..lol
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Ckito, one of the Chinese lurkers.
Ozgirl - 04 Mar 2008 21:49 GMT
> krom wrote in message ...
>>Who cap what now?..lol
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Ckito, one of the Chinese lurkers.

Snort
DonnaB shallotpeel - 04 Mar 2008 23:00 GMT
In alt.support.diabetes on Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:55:57 -0800 in Msg.#
<l-2dnUVeLvDfNFDanZ2dnUVZ_sKqnZ2d@softcom.net>, "Cheri"
<gserviceatinreachdotcom>  wrote:

> krom wrote in message ...
> >Who cap what now?..lol
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Ckito, one of the Chinese lurkers.

Or an extraordinary breed of dog?

LOL!!

Signature

DonnaB shallotpeel  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhlI7BzRO3E

"A man travels the world over in search of what he needs & returns home to
find it." - George Moore, THE BROOK KERITH, 1916

Cheri - 04 Mar 2008 23:07 GMT
DonnaB shallotpeel wrote in message ...
>In alt.support.diabetes on Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:55:57 -0800 in Msg.#
><l-2dnUVeLvDfNFDanZ2dnUVZ_sKqnZ2d@softcom.net>, "Cheri"
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>LOL!!

LOL

Cheri
krom - 05 Mar 2008 06:30 GMT
girls!

tsk

>:-P

KROM

> DonnaB shallotpeel wrote in message ...
>>In alt.support.diabetes on Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:55:57 -0800 in Msg.#
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Cheri
Alan S - 04 Mar 2008 07:31 GMT
>If we arent here to make the attempt at helping others then there is zero
>reason to be here.

Or to be helped. Says it all.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
Trinkwasser - 06 Mar 2008 19:26 GMT
>It is as dangerous to diagnose and treat someone's mental stability on
>the Internet as it is to diagnose and treat someone with diabetes.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>does not mean that they are having psychological problems...in fact,
>it might just be that you are the one experiencing them.

how ironic
DarkSentinel - 07 Mar 2008 12:45 GMT
> It is as dangerous to diagnose and treat someone's mental stability on
> the Internet as it is to diagnose and treat someone with diabetes.
> Especially when "evaluation" put on one member of this newsgroup could
> be said about those who are making that evaluation.  None of the
> armchair shrinks here are any more qualified to practice psychiatry
> than they are to practice medicine.

Well since my minor WAS psychology, I AM qualified to comment here.
Although, as usual, you missed the point. No one diagnosed ANYTHING. The
comments were made that he is seemingly having problems. You don't need a
degree in chemistry to know that sh.t stinks. The same premise applies here.
The fact of the matter is, that his posts are increasingly disjointed to the
point that people that normally could understand what he is/was saying can't
even discern the point is he is trying to make in some of his posts. Note
also the use of the third person. I do not know about you, but I don't refer
to myself in this manner. As usual, all you are doing here is complaining
because you little buddy is supposedly being picked on. When I made some
inappropriate comments, I was called on it. I admitted my culpability like a
man without the "woe is me...everybody hates me" routine. If you actually
took an unbiased view, you would admit this is true.

> There are several of the usual loudmouth know-it-alls  who are casting
> stones while standing in the doorway of their glass house.  It's a lot
> like people giving advice on diet and exercise and can't motivate
> themselves to do either.

I extended the olive branch, so I'm not going to engage in a pissing match
over this comment. I mean look at the original topic. I am pretty much sure
that if a newbie can access a newsgroup, then it is a good bet that they can
actually read. Given that fact, it will readily become apparent who the
"loud mouth, know-it-alls" actually are. So why then, did he feel the need
to take it upon himself to "warn" the newbies? However, again as usual, you
resort to that same old song and dance when you feel that one of your circle
is supposedly is supposedly being attacked for no reason. You really need to
get some new material.

> Just because you don't agree with someone's opinion in this newsgroup
> does not mean that they are having psychological problems...in fact,
> it might just be that you are the one experiencing them.

And what exactly are you doing now? Pot...kettle...black...ring a bell? Did
I accuse anyone of mental instability when I made the inappropriate
comments? Nope. But then, you see what you wish to see.

> IMO, Guy made a lot of good points about how this newsgroup could be a
> better place. Whatever this thread has turned into sure ain't one of
> them.

I agree. BUT you seem to miss the way it was said. Whether you wish to
believe it or not, people DO care about guy, and are worried that something
may be amiss. What the underlying problem is can only be speculated on at
this point, good or bad. If I were exhibiting problems, I would hope that
people that have known me for quite a while would care enough to point this
out. I make myself available day or night to my diabetic friends. The have
my home number, my cell, email, and real address. But given your past
behavior, as usual, you assume malice where none is intended. Instead of
complaining about non existent attacks, you SHOULD be trying to help your
friend.

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T2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet
http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel
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