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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / March 2008Obesityg in diabetics
I will mention some thing related to diabetes and obesity. If I run our of insulin my body senses that factor as starvation and I get very hungry. I know this and look to see if I forgot an insulin dose. Does this factor come into play on T2's?. Does insulin resistance result in the same effect. I do a lot of physical work and I do get very weak. I could go in and empty the fridge. Again is inadequate available insulin. Diabetes does require management and all the knowledge we can find to do a good job. Another issue is "when does a person need injected insulin?" guys@consolidated.net wrote in message <3krrr318ar0psidto4dlaa995kdrtb3iqm@4ax.com>... >I will mention some thing related to diabetes and obesity. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Does this factor come into play on T2's?. Does insulin >resistance result in the same effect. I know that when I have my numbers controlled, I don't have that awful hunger. When my numbers are high, I feel like I can't get enough to eat, but I never feel full. I think having that hunger monkey off your back is one of the better benefits of controlled BGs. I hope you're doing well today Guy. Cheri > guys@consolidated.net wrote in message > <3krrr318ar0psidto4dlaa995kdrtb3iqm@4ax.com>... [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > back is one of the better benefits of controlled BGs. I hope you're > doing well today Guy. I used to get that way when high. Now I just seem to get that way when I am low. It is one tip off to a hypo since I rarely have an appetite. > guys@consolidated.net wrote in message > <3krrr318ar0psidto4dlaa995kdrtb3iqm@4ax.com>... [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > back is one of the better benefits of controlled BGs. I hope you're > doing well today Guy. As far as I am aware insulin resistance prevents energy making it into the cells, just as lack of insulin in a type 1 does. So yes, when energy can't get to the cells one would be most likely to feel hungry. I feel hungrier when bg's are high than I do when low. > As far as I am aware insulin resistance prevents energy making it into the > cells, just as lack of insulin in a type 1 does. So yes, when energy can't > get to the cells one would be most likely to feel hungry. I feel hungrier > when bg's are high than I do when low. Hi Ozgirl, don't forget that insulin is a hormone It has a lot of functions It also controls fat metabolism It has a direct effect on your brain : insulin resistance => high insulin => signals your brain that you are hungry..... hth Gys > guys@consolidated.net wrote in message > <3krrr318ar0psidto4dlaa995kdrtb3iqm@4ax.com>... [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > back is one of the better benefits of controlled BGs. I hope you're > doing well today Guy. Same here as I have mentioned before. Since getting my numbers controlled, Lynn pretty much has to force me to eat. I just do NOT get hungry. Before, I would eat pretty much anything that didn't move faster than I did. To me, this kind of shows that obesity is not the CAUSE of Type 2, but there ARE those here that will disagree.  SignatureT2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel Undo the munge to reply by email DarkSentinel wrote in message ... >> I know that when I have my numbers controlled, I don't have that awful >> hunger. When my numbers are high, I feel like I can't get enough to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >this kind of shows that obesity is not the CAUSE of Type 2, but there ARE >those here that will disagree. So? Those that would disagree...are wrong, because we're right. ;-) Cheri > DarkSentinel wrote in message ... > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > So? Those that would disagree...are wrong, because we're right. ;-) LOL. But seriously, the point that gets lost in all of this (or conveniently ignored) is that being overweight and sedentary is a proven major contributing factor to getting diabetes as well as a laundry list of other diseases. For years healthcare professionals have tried to work with their patients to help them understand the importance of losing weight and exercise but the message is obviously not getting through. So, it's time to quit making excuses and apply some tough love. Not everyone who is overweight and sedentary will get diabetes just as not every smoker will get lung cancer, but it is a a proven contributing factor to many that do get it. It behooves everyone to try and achieve as near normal body weight as possible and to include exercise in their lifestyle. IMO, too many people try to blame their lack of discipline on genetics and other factors they say they have no control over. That's just not true for the majority of people. Kurt Kurt wrote in message ... On Feb 22, 12:03�pm, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote: > DarkSentinel wrote in message ... > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > So? Those that would disagree...are wrong, because we're right. ;-) LOL. But seriously, the point that gets lost in all of this (or conveniently ignored) is that being overweight and sedentary is a proven major contributing factor to getting diabetes as well as a laundry list of other diseases. For years healthcare professionals have tried to work with their patients to help them understand the importance of losing weight and exercise but the message is obviously not getting through. So, it's time to quit making excuses and apply some tough love. ++++++++++++++++++ I don't think it gets lost or ignored. I doubt that anyone would say that being overweight and sedentary is good, but speaking in absolutes by saying things like being overweight IS what CAUSED diabetes, is just plain ignorant IMO. I hope you're doing well Kurt. Cheri >> DarkSentinel wrote in message ... >> [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > >Kurt Self Discipline is so import for humans in all aspect of life. So many want a free ride. Old people like me see this clearly. This involves more than diabetes. I had a friend that came from a family that was prone to heart attacks, This fellow had a heart attack at age 38, He cleaned up his act and lived until age 69. I remember the time being thin was a negative. People thought the person was unhealthy. The farmer needed a strong healthy wife. When I was young I saw several periods of being without much food. Once I did not have food for three days. I recently saw a high school picture of the class and I was a string bean, I do think the causes of diabetes is NOT known today. I do believe that weight control is so important in any case. I can only suggest some things and hope the thread enlarges our knowledge. >But seriously, the point that gets lost in all of this (or >conveniently ignored) is that being overweight and sedentary is a >proven major contributing factor to getting diabetes as well as a >laundry list of other diseases. Why is this a hobby-horse of yours Kurt? Are you overweight? Sedentary? Type 2? None of the above? So why do you keep hammering the subject? Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest: ACCORD, Foxes and Grapes >>But seriously, the point that gets lost in all of this (or >>conveniently ignored) is that being overweight and sedentary is a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg >Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. Alan, I started this thread to bring up a needed item here. I see nothing wrong with what Kurt is doing. Why do we have to pick on people here, We must agree to disagree. To post rational arguments and above all,not to not be sarcastic We all live in glass houses and are idiots in some ones view. You are a very intelligent person when you want to be. We all are the same leaky boat. Please teach me to examine my headers. >>>But seriously, the point that gets lost in all of this (or >>>conveniently ignored) is that being overweight and sedentary is a [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >Please teach me to examine my headers. Guy, the subject is not the problem. Kurt's obsession with one flawed aspect of it is. Nicky answered for me. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest: ACCORD, Foxes and Grapes >>>But seriously, the point that gets lost in all of this (or >>>conveniently ignored) is that being overweight and sedentary is a [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Please teach me to examine my headers. To examine the headers of an incoming message in Windows Mail under Vista, open the message, then type Ctrl-F3. For outgoing messages, click View, then All Headers in the new message window instead. If this doesn't also work for you, let us know what program you're using as a newsreader. >> Please teach me to examine my headers. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >window instead. If this doesn't also work for you, let us know >what program you're using as a newsreader. Robert, my probem is old age, bad eye sight and fingers that no longerer work well.Other problems it had been years since I had to write soI do ignore grammer. On occasion I post without spell checking. It is my fault. I still think my understanding of technical issues and my approach to discussions are fairly proper. I had a good record while operating n a high level research facility. Most of my job was solving problems in researh equipment. So messed up headers has become my trademark. Thanks for your concern. In alt.support.diabetes on Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:30:33 -0600 in Msg.# > Robert, my probem is old age, bad eye sight and fingers that no > longerer work well.Other problems it had been years since I had to > write soI do ignore grammer. On occasion I post without spell > checking. > It is my fault. Typos, etc. are not a big deal. Everyone makes them. > I still think my understanding of technical issues and my approach to > discussions are fairly proper. ... If we go by your approach to discussions here in this newsgroup, on balance, in the last few years, your approach hasn't even come close to proper. SignatureDonnaB shallotpeel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUKDMNZIox0 "Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare." - Japanese proverb In alt.support.diabetes on Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:56:38 -0600 in Msg.# <TaKvj.107276$L%6.12853@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, "Robert Miles" <robertmiles@bellsouthNOSPAM.net> wrote: > To examine the headers of an incoming message in Windows Mail > under Vista, open the message, then type Ctrl-F3. For outgoing > messages, click View, then All Headers in the new message > window instead. If this doesn't also work for you, let us know > what program you're using as a newsreader. He's using Agent. That's apparent in his full headers. SignatureDonnaB shallotpeel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUKDMNZIox0 " ... I wrote it when we had our bags packed & were leaving. It was the last piece I wrote before I left India. I just called him, 'Sexy Sadie,' instead of (sings) 'Maharishi what have you done, you made a fool [of everyone] ...'" - John Lennon; All We Are Saying: The Last Major Interview with John Lennon and Yoko Ono (2000) by David Sheff >>But seriously, the point that gets lost in all of this (or >>conveniently ignored) is that being overweight and sedentary is a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >So why do you keep hammering the subject? Because he hasn't got a clue what he's talking about, and doesn't realise how ignorant he looks. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:32:22 +1100, Alan S > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Because he hasn't got a clue what he's talking about, and doesn't > realise how ignorant he looks. It's been a real pattern with you lately, and very cowardly, to profess to all that you have me killfiled yet find oh so many opportunities to attack me. But I agree with you about one thing, when it comes to diabetes I am ignorant. Well, maybe not to the full definition of the word because in the many years I've been diabetic I've done a lot of reading, trying to educate myself to better understand this complicated disease. However, unlike you, I don't pretend to have all the answers or make the disease a simplistic as you do. I have a great endo who I trust to fill in the gaps of what I do not know. I realize that in this newsgroup it's somehow a terrible thing to trust a doctor over the opinions of the geniuses here, but somehow I have managed to get along pretty well by doing so. And if you think my opinion that obesity and a sedentary lifestyle is a major contributing factor to getting diabetes is wrong...well, then you'd be the one who most in the real world would call ignorant. Kurt >> guys@consolidated.net wrote in message >> <3krrr318ar0psidto4dlaa995kdrtb3iqm@4ax.com>... [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >this kind of shows that obesity is not the CAUSE of Type 2, but there ARE >those here that will disagree. I see diabetes as a collection of diseases with a common symptom. So here we need to have open discussions that will show the spectrum. For instance I am non typical T1. In addition my mechanism that releases glucose on low blood glucose is non functional. I have watched my blood glucose go toward zero nonstop. In fact, on several hypos the medic reported no reading on the first meter reading. We must compare notes and develop a broader picture. >>> guys@consolidated.net wrote in message >>> <3krrr318ar0psidto4dlaa995kdrtb3iqm@4ax.com>... [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >We must compare notes and develop a broader picture. My problem is basically with a broken control system, the doctor who claimed my symptoms were "hysterical" was almost right, but the word he actually wanted was "hysteresis", there's a big delay between my sensing high BG and my pancreas turning on, and then between sensing normal BG and the pancreas turning off again. You seem to have a similar control system breakdown but without producing any of your own insulin: the switch which should turn your liver on doesnt operate when your BG drops. Insulin resistance occurs at muscle transporters, and in the liver, and probably from recent research also within the brain, through different mechanisms. Maybe you have one form of insulin resistance which breaks the glucose sensing mechanism only. Maybe you'd eventually have ended up as a Type 2 if the radiation exposure or infection hadn't carried off your pancreas and made you Type 1? There are papers I've read here in the past which cover the subject, hopefully someone with a better memory could remember/repost them. >>> guys@consolidated.net wrote in message >>> <3krrr318ar0psidto4dlaa995kdrtb3iqm@4ax.com>... [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > I see diabetes as a collection of diseases with a common symptom. > So here we need to have open discussions that will show the spectrum. I'm not sure I would subscribe to that theory. The mechanisms for T1 and T2 are different. Now the resulting other ailments, ARE due to the commonalities that both types share. > For instance I am non typical T1. In addition my mechanism that > releases glucose on low blood glucose is non functional. I have > watched my blood glucose go toward zero nonstop. In fact, on several > hypos the medic reported no reading on the first meter reading. Luckily I haven't faced that problem. Lowest I have dropped so far is into the 40's. As you will probably agree, I wouldn't wish the hypo's on my worst enemy. > We must compare notes and develop a broader picture. That is what it's all about bud. Helping each other make it through this. SignatureT2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel Undo the munge to reply by email > Since getting my numbers controlled, Lynn pretty much has to force me to > eat. I just do NOT get hungry. Boyoboyoboy that is one problem I do *not* have. Definitely no probs with my appetite -- though what I have an appetite *for* has sometimes to be firmly sat on. Sometimes I have to speak to myself severely to have that salad I'm not particularly keen on "today" (usually but not always a non-exercise day). <sigh> bj >> Since getting my numbers controlled, Lynn pretty much has to force me to >> eat. I just do NOT get hungry. > >Boyoboyoboy that is one problem I do *not* have. Comes with being in ketosis. Very handy - and a huge benefit to a T2 who needs to lose weight. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >>> Since getting my numbers controlled, Lynn pretty much has to force me to >>> eat. I just do NOT get hungry. >>Boyoboyoboy that is one problem I do *not* have. > Comes with being in ketosis. Very handy - and a huge benefit to a T2 > who needs to lose weight. I can't stand low carb, so I won't be in ketosis anytime soon. Also don't need to lose weight -- got that done (not with low carb, not with lack-of-hunger but not with massive cravings & feelings of starvation either) & kept it off. bj >> Since getting my numbers controlled, Lynn pretty much has to force me to >> eat. I just do NOT get hungry. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > severely to have that salad I'm not particularly keen on "today" (usually > but not always a non-exercise day). <sigh> The only reason I force myself to eat is I'll go hypo if I don't. I think most of it is the fact that that I have been so obsessed with getting my numbers down, I don't want to mess it up. Stupid I know, but I just don't want to go back to where I was. SignatureT2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel Undo the munge to reply by email >> guys@consolidated.net wrote in message >> <3krrr318ar0psidto4dlaa995kdrtb3iqm@4ax.com>... [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > me, this kind of shows that obesity is not the CAUSE of Type 2, but there > ARE those here that will disagree. Let 'em disagree. It won't make them right. I happen to agree with you. I am a type 2 and so is my husband. He was only recently diagnosed, but I have been saying for months that he was showing all the signs; No energy, tired all the time, and always hungry like he'd never been before .... even an hour after eating he was foraging for something. An inordinate attraction to carby things topped it off. Doc just put him on Avandamet. Along with the changes came some weight gain, of course. Here's a guy who was always on the go, boundless energy, and would eat at meals and only the occasional snack in between. He never before had a weight problem of any kind. Now he is ravenous and putting on weight and having no energy. Absolutely there is some mechanism at work here. SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn Evelyn Ruut wrote in message <47bf3a10$0$24124$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>... >I am a type 2 and so is my husband. He was only recently diagnosed, but I >have been saying for months that he was showing all the signs; No energy, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Evelyn I hear you Evelyn. I think people that haven't experienced it, don't understand the kind of hunger we're talking about. It is not normal hunger. I wish the best for your hubby. Hopefully, with you in his corner, he gets a handle on it quickly. Cheri >Evelyn Ruut wrote in message ><47bf3a10$0$24124$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>... [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >Cheri Guy does know the hunger some people are talking about. Some should not eat for three or four days and then they may feel it. That is the reason this posting . I have no idea if obesity causes diabetes, but I always question any idea that becomes too popular. There are many things like emotional or boredom that causes trips to the fridge. We all know that.. The issue is that we need to find a solution and I put out a couple of ideas. I guess there may be a better solution possible Telling a person that is "starving" to not eat does not fly. BUT there is a need to not eat as much. Answers????. guys@consolidated.net wrote in message ... >There are many things like emotional or boredom that >causes trips to the fridge. We all know that.. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >BUT there is a need to not eat as much. Answers????. I'm no expert Guy, and can't speak for anyone else, but for me, I try to avoid many foods that trigger cravings. In my case, those foods are carb laden foods. I think when someone tries to tell a recently diagnosed diabetic that it's their fault that they have diabetes because they're carrying extra weight, it's not necessarily true at all, and it serves no purpose, other than to pile it on to someone who is already reeling from the diagnosis. Once people find a food plan, get the hunger under control, and generally start to feel better, the pounds start coming off. That usually doesn't happen overnight, but it does happen, especially with support instead of cheap shots. Cheri >guys@consolidated.net wrote in message ... > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >Cheri I spent so much of my life in the acedamic community where there was very hot discussions. They were productive. Here I do not see enough of that, but personal attacks on individuals. What in the hell do these people think they are proving. Respect others and you will be respected. Other wise, you make a fool of your self. Cheri, I have a lot of respect for you. Your reply was very proper. Thank you. The proposal I made was that obersity may be a result of undiagnosed diabetes in some cases. Because I have no natural insulin and I have on a few occasions developed a severe unexplained hunger It came at a time when my insulin level had to be very low. This had little to do with my blood sugar except I was probably slightly above basal. since I did not get the liver dump which i get when I go below basal. Many good replies but a few that wqere unnecessary and they reflect on the individual. Dogmatic people seem uable to discuss anything with out becoming paranoid. Te grop function on discussion., below friend Guy (g...@consolidated.net) wrote: > > friend Guy (guys@consolidated.net) wrote in message ... > > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > The proposal I made was that obersity may be a result of undiagnosed > diabetes in some cases. Not clinically seen. > Because I have no natural insulin and I have > on a few occasions developed a severe unexplained hunger Hunger is from GOD. "HE humbled you causing you to hunger..." (Deuteronomy 8:3) http://TruthRUS.org/BeRight Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com Swordbearer for the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/Sword >guys@consolidated.net wrote in message ... > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >pounds start coming off. That usually doesn't happen overnight, but it >does happen, especially with support instead of cheap shots. Yup, the more even I keep my BG the easier it is to keep my BG even. Small changes in input = small changes in output. Eat just one high-carb spiking-type snack and I soon need another one and off we go. convicted friend Guy (g...@consolidated.net) wrote: > >>I am a type 2 and so is my husband. He was only recently diagnosed, > >but I [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Guy does know the hunger some people are talking about. Some > should not eat for three or four days and then they may feel it. We, who are Jesus' brethren, hear our stomachs whenever GOD blesses us making us ever hungrier. For this reason, folks around us know we are hungry all the time. > That is the reason this posting . > > I have no idea if obesity causes diabetes, but I always question > any idea that becomes too popular. It is not obesity but overeating that causes type-2 diabetes. Whether obesity happens with overeating depends on ones body. > There are many things like emotional or boredom that > causes trips to the fridge. Not for those of us who know in our hearts that hunger is wonderful. > We all know that.. Incorrect. Most of us falsely believe in our hearts that hunger is bad, that it indicates we are dying from starvation. This drives us to the irrational compulsion to overeat when hungrier. > The issue is that we need to find a solution and I put out a > couple of ideas. It remains smarter, to eat less down to the right amount: http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeSmart > I guess there may be a better solution possible Telling > a person that is "starving" to not eat does not fly. Actually, a person who is truly starving is not hungry and should not eat until his/her appetite returns with gradual refeeding. > BUT there is a need to not eat as much. Answers????. The 2PD-OMER Approach has worked and continues to work without failure: http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/2PD-OMER Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com Swordbearer for the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/Sword >>Evelyn Ruut wrote in message >><47bf3a10$0$24124$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>... [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > I have no idea if obesity causes diabetes, but I always question > any idea that becomes too popular. Just take a look at the mechanics of Type 2 guy. Because of the insulin resistance, the second receptor does not allow the glucose to enter our cells. Our cells then tell our brain, "HEY we're starving down here!". The body's response to this is to produce, and store fat. Hence, the obesity. > There are many things like emotional or boredom that > causes trips to the fridge. We all know that.. True, but we are speaking as to how it pertains to diabetes. It is not the same. > The issue is that we need to find a solution and I put out a > couple of ideas. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > BUT there is a need to not eat as much. Answers????. Which getting our BG's down, and learn to eat a balanced diet does with us T2's. SignatureT2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel Undo the munge to reply by email > Evelyn Ruut wrote in message > <47bf3a10$0$24124$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>... [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > hunger. I wish the best for your hubby. Hopefully, with you in his > corner, he gets a handle on it quickly. It's because our cells are telling our brain we are starving because of the insulin resistance. Not the tummy growling, oh I better eat kind of hungry. SignatureT2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel Undo the munge to reply by email >>> guys@consolidated.net wrote in message >>> <3krrr318ar0psidto4dlaa995kdrtb3iqm@4ax.com>... [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > .... even an hour after eating he was foraging for something. An > inordinate attraction to carby things topped it off. That was me. Would eat a full meal and an hour later, I was ravenous. > Doc just put him on Avandamet. Along with the changes came some weight > gain, of course. Here's a guy who was always on the go, boundless > energy, and would eat at meals and only the occasional snack in between. > He never before had a weight problem of any kind. Now he is ravenous and > putting on weight and having no energy. Absolutely there is some > mechanism at work here. Oddly enough I have lost weight since going on the insulin. Mostly from not getting hungry, and when I DO eat, sticking to the guidelines my dietician set forth fastidiously. Also my energy levels have skyrocketed. This thread is sort of a déjà vu moment for me. Back in 99 this same topic was being discussed. Unfortunately, as stated there ARE some here that don't understand the mechanism behind Type 2. That we are all fat slobs that can't control ourselves. They can't or won't see beyond their own problems I guess. SignatureT2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel Undo the munge to reply by email >>>> guys@consolidated.net wrote in message >>>> <3krrr318ar0psidto4dlaa995kdrtb3iqm@4ax.com>... [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > that can't control ourselves. They can't or won't see beyond their own > problems I guess. I am so glad you have found a way to work with your diabetes. Denial runs deep you know..... unfortunately there are many who won't see. But that doesn't mean we can't keep trying to help them see. :-) SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn > I am so glad you have found a way to work with your diabetes. Denial runs > deep you know..... unfortunately there are many who won't see. But that > doesn't mean we can't keep trying to help them see. :-) http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Dream.asp <>< http://HeartMDPhD.com/Hunger http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeHungry >>>>> guys@consolidated.net wrote in message >>>>> <3krrr318ar0psidto4dlaa995kdrtb3iqm@4ax.com>... [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > runs deep you know..... unfortunately there are many who won't see. But > that doesn't mean we can't keep trying to help them see. :-) I have no choice. Lynn will beat me up if I don't take care of myself...;) I wasn't speaking about those of us that have the problem not seeing. I meant the few in the group here that call us fat a.ses, and tell us just to push back from the table, etc. To them, I say you need to shut the hell up unless you KNOW what you are talking about, because obviously you do not. SignatureT2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel Undo the munge to reply by email DarkSentinel wrote in message ... >I wasn't speaking about those of us that have the problem not seeing. I >meant the few in the group here that call us fat a.ses, and tell us just to >push back from the table, etc. To them, I say you need to shut the hell up >unless you KNOW what you are talking about, because obviously you do not. Anyone that would call another person "fat a.s" for any reason...well, they just plain have no class, and could use a good ear thumping. Cheri > DarkSentinel wrote in message ... > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Anyone that would call another person "fat a.s" for any reason...well, > they just plain have no class, and could use a good ear thumping. Well we know one here...can we guess who left THIS little pearl... "by observing phat phucks like yourself." or the ever popular... "exactly, and nothing at all is wrong with that advice. only thing wrong is that people eat more then they should, plop their a.ses down on the couch after eating or go take a nap like they were a sumo wrestler and don't bother to use the fuel eaten correctly, thus gaining weight, thus causing health issues." Am I fat? Yes. Is it because I sat on my a.s all day stuffing my face? Hell no! I have been active all my life. But don't ever presume to try and judge me, when you don't know me, and what my circumstances are. Since getting my BG's under control incidentally, I have, as of my last weigh in, dropped 42 pounds. I am by no means an expert on the subject, by I DO see a direct correlation to what we have been saying. The control takes away the overpowering hunger. SignatureT2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel Undo the munge to reply by email DarkSentinel said... > The control takes away the overpowering hunger. Ain't THAT the truth!!! I gave up 47 pounds (again!). I wear my snug 40" waist jeans like balloon pants now. If you were a female, I'd suggest we dance! ;) There's a nutrition website I visit that trumps the USDA food database, with lots of pretty nice charts, including a fullness factor for foods and an estimated glycemic load (?) number. Very good, imho. YMMV. Read the highlighted links where available for honest (?) explanations. Start your food search where it says "enter food here" at the top then click on one of any results then read all about it. http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20Uy.html Leap day! Just means an extra shower every four years! :( Mess with time, see what happens?!? ;) Best, Andy T2 HB Gout :) >I have, as of my last weigh in, dropped 42 pounds. C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S !! Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest: The Quality of ADA Dietary Advice >>I have, as of my last weigh in, dropped 42 pounds. > > C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S !! Thanks Alan. It's unbelievable how much energy I have now. Lynn's threatening to slip me a mickey to calm me down. Couple that with my hyperactivity, and I'm climbing the walls...hehehe SignatureT2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel Undo the munge to reply by email DarkSentinel wrote in message ... >>>I have, as of my last weigh in, dropped 42 pounds. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >threatening to slip me a mickey to calm me down. Couple that with my >hyperactivity, and I'm climbing the walls...hehehe Let me add my congratulations too. That's a wonderful accomplishment. :-) Cheri > DarkSentinel wrote in message ... >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Let me add my congratulations too. That's a wonderful accomplishment. > :-) Thanks. But again, it proves the point we have been trying to make. Without the overpowering hunger produced by the mechanics involved being T2, the weight WILL come off. SignatureT2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel Undo the munge to reply by email In alt.support.diabetes on Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:19:32 -0800 in Msg.# <5oVxj.30$TP4.26@newsfe07.lga>, "DarkSentinel" <darkmungesentinel@munge.charter.munge.net> wrote: > Am I fat? Yes. Is it because I sat on my a.s all day stuffing my face? Hell > no! I have been active all my life. But don't ever presume to try and judge [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > correlation to what we have been saying. The control takes away the > overpowering hunger. Hey, congrats! SignatureDonnaB shallotpeel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUKDMNZIox0 > In alt.support.diabetes on Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:19:32 -0800 in Msg.# > <5oVxj.30$TP4.26@newsfe07.lga>, "DarkSentinel" [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Hey, congrats! Thanks, and as always, I could NOT have done this with Lynn, and everyone here supporting me...:) SignatureT2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel Undo the munge to reply by email >> DarkSentinel wrote in message ... >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >"by observing phat phucks like yourself." Curiously, not a few years back she actually used to have an order of magnitude more Clue about Type 2 than she has now, I wonder how that could be? >or the ever popular... > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >correlation to what we have been saying. The control takes away the >overpowering hunger. Ain't that the truth? I was *never* overweight until I started the dreaded low fat high carb diet, and reversing it until my BG was under control has caused the weight to drop off as fast as it went on. Also like you I have an order of magnitude *more* energy with lower BGs. All stuff which people who actually READ the group would know and understand . . . Congratulations are due not only to you for achieving this but to the folks whose information has made it possible. >>> DarkSentinel wrote in message ... >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > magnitude more Clue about Type 2 than she has now, I wonder how that > could be? I'm not sure. At one point in looking back over her posts, she identified herself AS a T2 initially. More, she used to give some REALLY good advice. >>or the ever popular... >> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Congratulations are due not only to you for achieving this but to the > folks whose information has made it possible. Indeed. I always acknowledge those here that have made this possible. Without them and Lynn, I could NOT have done this. SignatureT2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel Undo the munge to reply by email Trinkwasser wrote in message ...speaking of rk >Curiously, not a few years back she actually used to have an order of >magnitude more Clue about Type 2 than she has now, I wonder how that >could be? She was originally diagnosed as type 2, and was learning and sharing strategies from that standpoint, instead of type 1. Cheri >Trinkwasser wrote in message ...speaking of rk > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >She was originally diagnosed as type 2, and was learning and sharing >strategies from that standpoint, instead of type 1. True, but even when she was a Type 1 she USED to post useful advice for Type 2s as well, without the now mandatory bashing and insults. >guys@consolidated.net wrote in message ><3krrr318ar0psidto4dlaa995kdrtb3iqm@4ax.com>... [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >back is one of the better benefits of controlled BGs. I hope you're >doing well today Guy. The worst factor for me was the reactive hypoing, the rapid BG drop was what turned on the worst hunger, the liver dumps were the second worst factor. When I run my BG low by exercising I get normal type hunger rather than the MUST EAT NOW!!! thing convicted friend Guy (g...@consolidated.net) wrote: > I will mention some thing related to diabetes and obesity. Hunger is only related to diabetes and obesity when someone falsely believes in the lie that hunger is bad because it indicates starvation. For the rest of us, who no longer suffer from the delusion, we see there is not relationship except that hunger counters type-2 diabetes and other obesity-related problems. > If I run our of insulin my body senses that factor as starvation > and I get very hungry. Folks suffering from starvation are dying. Dying people are as a general rule not hungry. > I know this and look to see if I forgot an > insulin dose. You would find out that you did not and if you checked your blood glucose, it is likely that you would discover, when you a very hungry, that your blood glucose is in the normal range between 70 - 90 mg/dL. > Does this factor come into play on T2's?. Does insulin > resistance result in the same effect. > > I do a lot of physical work and I do get very weak. I > could go in and empty the fridge. The latter would indicate that you are hungry and that your feeling very weak is likely arising from the delusion that hunger is bad so that when you are hungry, you are to feel bad (ie very weak). > Again is inadequate > available insulin. Not if your BG is in the normal range 70 - 90 mg/dL. > Diabetes does require management and all the knowledge we can find to > do a good job. > > Another issue is "when does a person need injected insulin?" When there is none being made by a person's pancreas. Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com Swordbearer for the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/Sword >convicted friend Guy (g...@consolidated.net) wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > >Andrew <>< Andrew I am talking about real world not some text book. Do you have any idea how hard it is for some of us to achieve "normal" numbers. Low numbers for me is an invitation for a 911 run. I do achieve umbers that eliminated most of the complications. i have no natural insulin and I can run out of insulin with very normal blood glucose readings, I have been told for a long time that insulin is required to process the glucose so it is available to the cells. What I posted is exactly true. I am asking a question. The question is" is the tendency to overeat related to lack of insulin or th3 ability to process it." My case seems to be very clear because I have NO natural insulin. Other T1's might have some inputs. convicted friend Guy (g...@consolidated.net) wrote: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > >convicted friend Guy (g...@consolidated.net) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Andrew I am talking about real world not some text book. This remains the real world and not some text book. > Do you have any idea how hard it is for some of us to achieve > "normal" numbers. Low numbers for me is an invitation for > a 911 run. I do achieve umbers that eliminated most of the > complications. Euglycemia is not hypoglycemia. > i have no natural insulin and I can run out of insulin with very > normal blood glucose readings, Those who run out of insulin would as a general rule have elevated blood glucose readings. > I have been told for a long time that insulin is required to process > the glucose so it is available to the cells. The primary purpose of insulin is to lower blood glucose. > What I posted is exactly true. I am asking a question. > > The question is" is the tendency to overeat related to > lack of insulin or th3 ability to process it." The irrational compulsion to overeat arises from the false belief that hunger is an indication of starvation (ie imminent death). > My case seems to be very clear because I have NO natural > insulin. Other T1's might have some inputs. Without insulin, there would be no hunger because of DKA. Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com Swordbearer for the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/Sword >Those who run out of insulin would as a general rule have elevated >blood glucose readings. Yes, I do get gross glucose re;eases when I run out of insulin. But this happens when a person goes below the required basal. There are cases where yo are still above basal but are still below the level where that hunger response kicks in. The hunger response may be a major factor weigh gain. I suspect that we have the cart ahead of the horse. These are amateur suggestions since I do not get paid. A lot get paid but use assumptions. People that get paid well have an obligation to go beyond poorly done studies. convicted friend Guy (g...@consolidated.net) wrote: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > >Those who run out of insulin would as a general rule have elevated > >blood glucose readings. > > Yes, I do get gross glucose re;eases when I run out of insulin. Such elevations typically make us less hungry. > But this happens when a person goes below the required basal. Zero would be below the required basal. > There are cases where yo are still above basal but are still below the > level where that hunger response kicks in. Above basal would lead to hypoglycemia. Right at basal is what is necessary to achieve euglycemia which would be when we are at our hungriest. > The hunger response may be a major factor weigh gain. No such thing as hunger response. Instead, there is the irrational response of compulsive overeating for those who suffer from the delusion that they are dying when hungry. > I suspect that we have the cart ahead of the horse. What is happening here is mental illness arising from the delusion of falsely believing that hunger is bad. > These are amateur suggestions since I do not get paid. > > A lot get paid but use assumptions. > > People that get paid well have an obligation to go beyond poorly > done studies. Wiser to stick with the truth: http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeWise Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com Swordbearer for the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/Sword references and quoted material from known troll snipped. >i have no natural insulin and I can run out of insulin with very >normal blood glucose readings, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >My case seems to be very clear because I have NO natural >insulin. Other T1's might have some inputs. you answered your own question. when the cells of the body cannot process the glucose for fuel, either due to lack of insulin or insulin resistance, the body reacts to the literal starvation process. When the BG gets high enough and you start into DKA due to lack of insulin, you will lose the hunger as the nausea and cramping and headaches set in and become increasingly worse. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . >references and quoted material from known troll snipped. > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >you will lose the hunger as the nausea and cramping and headaches set >in and become increasingly worse. Mack you are correct but I was talking about the weight gain that so many T2's comolain about inevitable weight qain. I suspect that the weight gain is the result of "prediabetes" WE used ro aee a lot of goiters and that shows some of the factors involved in weight cnotrol. It "ain't"so simple. But there is one basic item. If you take in more than you burn it is usually stored, But the indivuual may not be glutton. I do use my required insulin as a measure of my food input. Mack, these issues should be presented here very often how dare this man convict anyone when he is such an idiot himself? > convicted friend Guy (g...@consolidated.net) wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > Swordbearer for the KING of kings and LORD of lords. > http://HeartMDPhD.com/Sword <sneck> >how dare this man convict anyone when he is such an idiot himself? Patsie: You are repeatedly replying to known trolls, and quoting their entire post, with all the newsgroups of the original troll left intact. Do you have anything to contribute about diabetes? (I don't of course know the groups you actually read). Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G Patsie, he is the worst kind of a troll. Most people have him killfiled, and some even go so far as to killfile those who reply to him, as well. SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn > how dare this man convict anyone when he is such an idiot himself? >> convicted friend Guy (g...@consolidated.net) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] >> Swordbearer for the KING of kings and LORD of lords. >> http://HeartMDPhD.com/Sword > Patsie, he is the worst kind of a troll. Most people have him > killfiled, and some even go so far as to killfile those who reply to > him, as well. Oh, goodness, he's hardly the *worst* kind. He is consistently idiotic and identifiable: there are far more subtle beggars who've deliberately targeted newsgroups for much, much subtler and nastier behavior. >> Patsie, he is the worst kind of a troll. Most people have him >> killfiled, and some even go so far as to killfile those who reply to him, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > identifiable: there are far more subtle beggars who've deliberately > targeted newsgroups for much, much subtler and nastier behavior. Could be. SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn >> Patsie, he is the worst kind of a troll. Most people have him >> killfiled, and some even go so far as to killfile those who reply to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >identifiable: there are far more subtle beggars who've deliberately targeted >newsgroups for much, much subtler and nastier behavior. If you are discussing Dr Chung, he is no problem to me. He does no harm, except to other religious nuts.ad a few atheists. He is so obvious. His advice on eating less is not bad. All of us should look in a mirror before we become too vocal. The only issue I have is the cost of educating anyone so they can be called doctor. It raises my curiosity. Guy > Patsie, he is the worst kind of a troll. Most people have him killfiled, > and some even go so far as to killfile those who reply to him, as well. < Chung monkey drivel snipped > He's not the worst. Just so delusional and moronic that it just seems that way. SignatureT2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel Undo the munge to reply by email On Feb 26, 7:18 am, "DarkSentinel" > He's not the worst. Just so delusional and moronic that it just seems that > way. At least most of his posts are now just a one link link which most people, who have not kill-filed him, learn are links to more of his junk http://HeartMDPhD.com/IdioticChung http://HeartMDPhD.com/OAF >how dare this man convict anyone when he is such an idiot himself? If you really must reply to this dickhead, please be so kind as to remove the diabetes newsgroups from your crossposted reply. Thank you. SignatureLarry, T2, Saskatchewan, Canada. DX 24 Aug 07. D&E Metformin 2000mg, Ramipril, Simvastatin Dx A1c 8.1 : Latest 5.1 |
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