Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / March 2008

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

diabetes and living

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
guys@consolidated.net - 30 Jan 2008 12:14 GMT
I had the shock of my life in 1976.  During that year i had three
complete physicals because I was tired.  The docs said there was no
problem.

So I decided to change job top a less responsible position.

Easily found on with a company I had done some consulting
with.

Then I quit the other job and prepared to get ready to move to the new
position.  Last thing was a local medical.    The testape turned
black.

At that time the new employer wound not accept a diabetic.   The
job might be dangerous if I was not very alert.

There I was no job. no insurance   Two kids in college, and
evidently very sick.

I had some special skills and the new employer decided they needed me
and could work things out.

Stuck with that job until I retired.  When  I retired, I was near
being unable to work at the end..

I kept my insurance and that really paid off when I had surgery
to remove a leg and then a quad bypass.

I was very careful to no jeopardize my job since I could never get
insurance  again.

Now at 78, I got through the bad times

MY point is I never let my ego cause me problems.

I do know that i can find a legal excuse to
NOT hire any person or I can by being careful can terminate
any diabetic that may be  a problem.

It is best to control your ego.

If I could do it over, I would get a clean medical before changing
job.

The problem in hiring diabetics is it is well known that a few are
very very overbearing and make demands using diabetes as a tool.
So do hot hire them and avoid the headaches.  They can cost you a big
legal fee.

Swallowing my ego and being humble and careful did not seem to be a
big loss  wen I saw the total medical bills.

A way to remove the problem could be a Universal medical insurance.

The cost of medical care should be removed from the employer that
would allow the employer to have one less obstacle in hiring a
diabetics.

Any loss of employment would not cause so many problems.

IF you had an a.s hole person to deal with they would have less weapon
to hit at you. New employment would be much easier tgo find
anotherjob.
Uncle Enrico - 30 Jan 2008 13:12 GMT
> I had the shock of my life in 1976.  During that year i had three
> complete physicals because I was tired.  The docs said there was no
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
> Any loss of employment would not cause so many problems.

Good point that is often overlooked in the debate.  We need to separate
medical care from employment for many such good reasons.
Black Seamus - 30 Jan 2008 16:22 GMT
On Jan 30, 6:14 am, g...@consolidated.net wrote:
> I had the shock of my life in 1976.  During that year i had three
> complete physicals because I was tired.  The docs said there was no
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
> to hit at you. New employment would be much easier tgo find
> anotherjob.

Controling the ego is one of the best and most difficult things we can
do in most situations. I hope to learn how some day!
Màck©® - 31 Jan 2008 02:04 GMT
>The problem in hiring diabetics is it is well known that a few are
>very very overbearing and make demands using diabetes as a tool.

please give examples of how diabetics are "overbearing" at working and
examples of the "demands" they make.

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

Cheri - 31 Jan 2008 03:01 GMT
Màck©® wrote in message ...

>>The problem in hiring diabetics is it is well known that a few are
>>very very overbearing and make demands using diabetes as a tool.
>
>please give examples of how diabetics are "overbearing" at working and
>examples of the "demands" they make.

Yes, I would like to know that too.

Cheri
Patsie Hatley - 31 Jan 2008 07:37 GMT
Thanks you put my own thoughts into words, none of my diabetic friends seem
overbearing to me, and they all have good jobs, and their employers seem
pleased with them. I never used my own diabetes as a tool when I worked and
I worked in the same place for twenty some years.

> Màck©® wrote in message ...
> >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Cheri
DonnaB shallotpeel - 31 Jan 2008 07:52 GMT
In alt.support.diabetes on Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:01:34 -0800 in Msg.#
<XoudndArVIVipDzanZ2dnUVZ_rignZ2d@softcom.net>, "Cheri"
<gserviceatinreachdotcom>  wrote:

> Màck©® wrote in message ...
> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Yes, I would like to know that too.

Well, isn't it worded so as to be virtually meaningless? I mean, a FEW
people with dandruff might be overbearing and make demands based on their
hair follicles & dry skin, right? Couldn't just about ANYTHING be subbed in
for diabetics and diabetes?

Signature

DonnaB shallotpeel urging you to see BRIARS IN THE COTTON PATCH: THE STORY
OF KOINONIA FARM on your local PBS station.

"Democracy is two wolves & a sheep voting on what to have for dinner." -
American proverb

Patsie Hatley - 31 Jan 2008 07:42 GMT
How well known is it, I and all my diabetic friends do not fit into your
mold and we do not use our diabetes as a tool, in fact we donot dwell on it
at all, we have diabetes, we arenot the disease. I really resent your
implications. I know that the people who hired me in Tustin Library never
felt that way about me and my fellow diabetics. afterall there are a lot of
us in this world.

> >The problem in hiring diabetics is it is well known that a few are
> >very very overbearing and make demands using diabetes as a tool.
>
> please give examples of how diabetics are "overbearing" at working and
> examples of the "demands" they make.
Màck©® - 31 Jan 2008 20:17 GMT
>How well known is it, I and all my diabetic friends do not fit into your
>mold and we do not use our diabetes as a tool, in fact we donot dwell on it
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>> please give examples of how diabetics are "overbearing" at working and
>> examples of the "demands" they make.

who are you replying to Patsie?

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

guys@consolidated.net - 31 Jan 2008 22:53 GMT
>>How well known is it, I and all my diabetic friends do not fit into your
>>mold and we do not use our diabetes as a tool, in fact we donot dwell on it
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>who are you replying to Patsie?

Mack, what is wrong.   You used to provide a lot of information
instead of baiting comments.  What you do is not my problrem but
I prefer the other Mack.
Cheri - 31 Jan 2008 23:18 GMT
guys@consolidated.net wrote in message ...

>Mack, what is wrong.   You used to provide a lot of information
>instead of baiting comments.  What you do is not my problrem but
>I prefer the other Mack.

Maybe he's just another one of those *demanding diabetics* you were
going on about. You know how cranky and unreasonable they can be,
right? ;-)

Cheri
guys@consolidated.net - 01 Feb 2008 00:06 GMT
>guys@consolidated.net wrote in message ...
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Cheri

Cheri,  I can be very cranky ands even vicious.  I do
ignore spelling and grammer here but am careful to
avoid personal attacks as much as possible.

Cheri, you know very well what I am addressing.

I  once posted a story about  "Betty"

The first time I saw her she was UGLY. But
two months later she was a beautiful girl. In fact
about 60 years later she is still beautiful
in my mind.

The message is one diabetic has an effect on
every person they meet..   Do we leave a
ugly or beautiful diabetic image?
Màck©® - 01 Feb 2008 07:22 GMT
>>guys@consolidated.net wrote in message ...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>every person they meet..   Do we leave a
>ugly or beautiful diabetic image?

that's interesting.  if you go back and reread all of your posts what
image did you leave?

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

Uncle Enrico - 07 Feb 2008 14:33 GMT
>> guys@consolidated.net wrote in message ...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> every person they meet..   Do we leave a
> ugly or beautiful diabetic image?

Good point, Guy. BTW,  we're all getting cranky. It's this damned disease.
Màck©® - 31 Jan 2008 23:35 GMT
>>>How well known is it, I and all my diabetic friends do not fit into your
>>>mold and we do not use our diabetes as a tool, in fact we donot dwell on it
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>instead of baiting comments.  What you do is not my problrem but
>I prefer the other Mack.

then you can show where the baiting was, exactly.

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

DarkSentinel - 31 Jan 2008 12:12 GMT
>>The problem in hiring diabetics is it is well known that a few are
>>very very overbearing and make demands using diabetes as a tool.
>
> please give examples of how diabetics are "overbearing" at working and
> examples of the "demands" they make.

Ya might want read the loony response in the other thread Mack. We diabetics
are unworthy under any circumstance.

Signature

T2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet
http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel
Undo the munge to reply by email

guys@consolidated.net - 31 Jan 2008 18:35 GMT
>>>The problem in hiring diabetics is it is well known that a few are
>>>very very overbearing and make demands using diabetes as a tool.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Ya might want read the loony response in the other thread Mack. We diabetics
>are unworthy under any circumstance.

I live and worked for over twenty five years with diabetes.I do
know the game.

I am not the one making excuses for alleged
poor behavior. I did my job and did not emphasize
my diabetes.  Tat was not easy but I know better.

The "poor soul" way is a por way to go.

Long before I could spell diabetes I say quite a few cases where a
negative diabetic precluded my hiring  a good person.

I was told off the record that "they can be a pain in the a.s".

i think " I heard they can be argumentative."  From, watching these
groups that seems to be the case for a few.

The problem is that lot of other diabetics need job opportunities..
Màck©® - 31 Jan 2008 20:28 GMT
>>>>The problem in hiring diabetics is it is well known that a few are
>>>>very very overbearing and make demands using diabetes as a tool.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
>The problem is that lot of other diabetics need job opportunities..

25 years?  You mean I've been diabetic longer than you?  So what do I
get?  Please no gold watches, I have several already.

You have again failed to give any examples of poor behavior or how a
diabetic is any more argumentative at work than any non-diabetic.  

You claim that you saw quite a few cases where a negative diabetic
precluded your hiring.  That means that your potential employer had to
ask you if you were diabetic.  That question during an interview or on
a job application is in fact illegal.  

If can't give specific examples then people will not believe you.

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

bj - 31 Jan 2008 21:31 GMT
>  That means that your potential employer had to
> ask you if you were diabetic.  That question during an interview or on
> a job application is in fact illegal.

It hasn't always been that way.
bj
Màck©® - 31 Jan 2008 22:33 GMT
>>  That means that your potential employer had to
>> ask you if you were diabetic.  That question during an interview or on
>> a job application is in fact illegal.
>
>It hasn't always been that way.
>bj

I know.
http://www.dbtac.vcu.edu/whatsada-history.aspx

http://www.mtstcil.org/skills/ada1-b.html

Guy is an amputee.  His take on the rights of the disabled is highly
confusing at best.

He alludes to "special privileges", "argumentative", "problems for
employers" but does not give specifics.

"reasonable allowances" are not special privileges".  If you hire even
1 wheel chair bond employee, or one who uses the double canes to walk,
it is not a special privilege to request a building modification that
includes a handicap ramp at the curb and a handicapped accessible door
at the employee entrance if the current entrance prevents safe access
for the employee.

example my building has a separate employee entrance than the one used
by the public.  we have card reader accessible turnstiles to help
prevent unauthorized access.  We also have 2 automatic doors in place
just in front of the turnstiles that open at the press of a button and
a door that opens when the card is swiped on a reader programmed for
access to handicapped employees only, at the turnstiles.  That's 3
doors total.  The two outer doors activated by button not card reader
were only just recently installed.  Why? because handicapped, injured
and pregnant employees kept complaining about trouble getting through
the doors under different conditions.

Are those to be considered "special privileges"?  There was a
substantial cost involved in installing the system.  The company could
have saved money by not hiring the handicapped, and firing those who
had other reasons for asking for the doors to be reworked.

Our Visitor entrance is still not handicapped accessible.  We have
changed how we do business and we rarely get walk in business in the
office anymore.  We are scheduled to have the doors replaced with
handicapped accessible doors.  This is going to cost a lot more than
what was done at the employee entrance.  The reasons for this are that
I and a few employees have been complaining about accessibility to our
employees and visitors entering through this entrance.  99% of the
complaints came from non-handicapped individuals.

Guy has claimed that diabetics specifically are more argumentative at
work.  Not one shred of evidence has been given for this claim.  Now
if he is miscommunication and means to say that the disabled in
general push back in regards to discrimination more often than the
non-disabled I can give examples to support that at some jobs and
other examples to support that the opposite where non-disabled people
come to the defense of the disabled when the disabled were not willing
to stand up for themselves out of fear.  But I see no proof that
diabetes makes anyone more argumentative than anyone else.

I also see no evidence that diabetics specifically are or cause "more
problems for employers" than anyone else, disabled, chronically ill or
not.

Kurt says that he agrees with the idea that diabetics cause more
problems, but his actual example of "there will always be people with
a cold who over dramatize to anyone who will listen..." (paraphrased)
is the example I will use to contradict them both.  That behavior is
not limited to any one group, disabled, chronically ill, or
non-disabled/non-chronically ill.  There are drama queens in every
group.

Discrimination still place today.  The places that it is allowed are
the paces where no one stands up.  

Yes standing up for yourself could cost you your job.  Personally I'd
rather risk losing my job because I fought back against discrimination
than knowing that my silence allowed the next person to be
discriminated against, regardless if it meant I kept the job where the
discrimination was taking place or I kept silent so that the former
employer would not give a bad reference when the potential employer
contacted the previous one asking for references.

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

bj - 31 Jan 2008 23:32 GMT
>>>  That means that your potential employer had to
>>> ask you if you were diabetic.  That question during an interview or on
>>> a job application is in fact illegal.
>>
>>It hasn't always been that way.
>>bj

> I know.
> ......

I was merely responding to what you said about questions in interviews --  
and when those of us of a certain age were doing interviews, those questions
weren't yet illegal. Same with housing -- "I don't rent to people like
you...." (I did run into that one).
bj
Màck©® - 31 Jan 2008 23:38 GMT
>>>>  That means that your potential employer had to
>>>> ask you if you were diabetic.  That question during an interview or on
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>you...." (I did run into that one).
>bj

when it comes to housing, "We don't rent to people like you..." is one
"I" have heard many times, the last time was about 4 months ago.  Not
because of diabetes though, or any physical disability.

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

guys@consolidated.net - 31 Jan 2008 23:42 GMT
>>>>>The problem in hiring diabetics is it is well known that a few are
>>>>>very very overbearing and make demands using diabetes as a tool.
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
>If can't give specific examples then people will not believe you.

I do not care who beloeve me or not.  I am not Mack.

You aeem to live some lawyer's enviroment.

You do not understasnd that any good employer
knows the rules and how to handle them.

Some greedy lazy people look for a way to sue someone.
That fact does have a bad effect on my medical care.

Most of us do not operate that way.  I was always  able to find
emploment  without a false resume.

YOu know very well some do not get hired because
some of the arrogant flaunt their  "illness" as an excuse for
to not perform.  The old game of "It s your fault".

I was  in a position where I was responsible for hiring
technical people.  I soon learned to judge people and to spot problem
people like dope addicts.

Wish you could understand
Màck©® - 31 Jan 2008 23:55 GMT
>I do not care who beloeve me or not.  I am not Mack.
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>Wish you could understand

I do understand.  you are making up most of what you say in this post.
the rest you are basing on past not current experience and you are the
blaming others for your difficulties.  reread your post above and you
can find it right there.

My current manager made the same claim several times about having
learned to spot problem people.  The funny thing is everyone he has
hired since he took the position is a problem person.  

their behaviors include but are not limited too: lying, habitually
showing up late, leaving their gun belt with loaded gun and loaded
spare magazines unattended while doing rounds out of uniform, sleeping
on the job, viewing streaming media over the net in direct violation
of company policy and many other behaviors that I have seen people
fired for, but these behaviors are not overlooked or excused.

And Guy your claim that you do not care what other people think, is a
lie.  If you did not care about that, you would not have mentioned it
nor would you be constantly bitching about what other people are
posting when it does not meet with your approval.

The very act of posting in a public forum is because you want to be
heard/read which means you very much care what others think.

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

Uncle Enrico - 01 Feb 2008 16:18 GMT
Guy,

Keep writing. It keeps our brains active. Most people our age do little
or no writing or reading for that matter, to their detriment I think.

Also, your ASD "Column" gives others an opportunity to exercise their
brains, and so we all benefit.

You well know that there can be considerable unkindness here, but yet
you continue to venture out. Kudos for the courage.

You and I have had our disagreements over the years, but this place
would suffer with your withdrawal.

In fact, I remember when you were gone for some time, people were
wondering where you were and were worried for you.

Thanks for all you do. I read your column, and so do your critics.

If you need to take a break, keep writing, but instead of reading the
criticisms, just count the responses and draw satisfaction from the
numbers. Anyway, that's what I do sometimes.
DonnaB shallotpeel - 02 Feb 2008 01:04 GMT
In alt.support.diabetes on Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:18:24 GMT in Msg.#
<kDHoj.4934$J41.4180@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>, Uncle Enrico
<Uncle@nospam.com>  wrote:

> You well know that there can be considerable unkindness here, but yet
> you continue to venture out. Kudos for the courage.

Especially when it comes to being unkind to others?!!

Signature

DonnaB shallotpeel urging you to see BRIARS IN THE COTTON PATCH: THE STORY
OF KOINONIA FARM on your local PBS station.

Uncle Enrico - 02 Feb 2008 13:09 GMT
> In alt.support.diabetes on Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:18:24 GMT in Msg.#
> <kDHoj.4934$J41.4180@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>, Uncle Enrico
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Especially when it comes to being unkind to others?!!

I haven't seen guy be unkind to people. I've seen him criticize behavior
but never attach names to it.

One disclaimer: I don't read everything here, but I've read enough of
Guy's stuff to have a pretty good sense of how he works.
DonnaB shallotpeel - 03 Feb 2008 06:21 GMT
In alt.support.diabetes on Sat, 02 Feb 2008 07:09:05 -0600 in Msg.#
<0J%oj.6706$nK5.3197@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, Uncle Enrico <Uncle@nospam.com>
wrote:

> > In alt.support.diabetes on Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:18:24 GMT in Msg.#
> > <kDHoj.4934$J41.4180@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>, Uncle Enrico
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> One disclaimer: I don't read everything here, but I've read enough of
> Guy's stuff to have a pretty good sense of how he works.

Then, I can only suggest that you didn't see Guy specifically be
outrageously unkind to me.

If you didn't see the post in question, I can easily provide it to you by
reposting or via email.

My chin is still on my chest. That's how amazing I found what he said to be.

Signature

DonnaB shallotpeel

"God is great, but don't dance in a little boat." - Irish Proverb

Kurt - 03 Feb 2008 07:17 GMT
On Feb 2, 10:21�pm, DonnaB shallotpeel <shallotp...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> In alt.support.diabetes on Sat, 02 Feb 2008 07:09:05 -0600 in Msg.#
> <0J%oj.6706$nK5.3...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, Uncle Enrico <Un...@nospam.com>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> My chin is still on my chest. That's how amazing I found what he said to be.

Oh please, Donna.  Guy wasn't any more unkind to you than you have
been to him.  You and Mack have both been dogpiling on just about
every post he's made.  For you to play the innocent victim is absurd.
Go pick on someone else.  Guy has been in this newsgroup for a long
time and has contributed a lot of very positive things.  If you don't
like his posting style, best to just ignore him.

Kurt
DonnaB shallotpeel - 03 Feb 2008 09:38 GMT
In alt.support.diabetes on Sat, 2 Feb 2008 23:17:51 -0800 (PST) in Msg.#
<d0bcd591-6377-4e2d-a046-ff1112c72982@f10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Kurt
<kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com>  wrote:

> On Feb 2, 10:21?pm, DonnaB shallotpeel <shallotp...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> every post he's made.  For you to play the innocent victim is absurd.
> Go pick on someone else.

I completely & totally disagree with you. And, don't 'oh please me' while
we're at it. It's inappropriate. This was a serious thing & not just
something that people disagree about! I've not been unkind to Guy. I've been
kind to him. I've been neutral toward him. I've said good things about his
posts. And, I've tried to have realistic give & take dialogue with Guy. None
of that =s unkind.

And, if you truly think that Mack or I or the two of us have been dogpiling
on 'just about every post he's made' then I can only suggest that you must
be missing a vast majority of the posts that have been made since I have
been here. I think this idea that people 'dogpile' on poor Guy does no one
here any favors & is inaccurate, less than truthful, insulting to Guy as if
he can't take care of himself, and it's not something I do. Most people here
seem to me to post about things they think need saying & NOT to pile on to
attack in groups or to defend a certain group of school yard friends. YMMV.

And, I'm not playing any kind of a victim at all.

> Guy has been in this newsgroup for a long
> time and has contributed a lot of very positive things.

So many of you who have been here for a long time say. Those of us who
haven't been here so long have seen, apparently, a different Guy. I've been
quick to point out that there are positive posts he has made, yes. But, I
couldn't go any further than that.

> If you don't like his posting style, best to just ignore him.

And, if I need your advice on who to filter out & when, I'd ask you. I
haven't needed it yet. I doubt I will need it.

No one here should say what Guy said about anyone else here unless it's
about a troll or spammer or flooder, aka not a regular who belongs here in
ASD as a member of the community.

Signature

DonnaB shallotpeel

"Good watching drives away ill-luck." - French Proverb

Cheri - 03 Feb 2008 18:52 GMT
DonnaB shallotpeel wrote in message ...
>In alt.support.diabetes on Sat, 2 Feb 2008 23:17:51 -0800 (PST) in Msg.#
><d0bcd591-6377-4e2d-a046-ff1112c72982@f10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Kurt
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
>I completely & totally disagree with you. And, don't 'oh please me' while

I completely disagree with it too, no contest there IMO. Guy has said
some incredibly rude things to you, which you haven't responded to in
kind.

Cheri
Frank t2 - 03 Feb 2008 22:54 GMT
Children !  Children !

Some of you are big enough, mature enough to just stop right now
in responding to these posts...  if you could see how they demean
your image !

Please - you know we love you all - just exercise some restraint; tell
yourselves you are bigger than constant bickering and move on.

If not - the day will come when no more newbies will dare to post
and increase our wealth of knowledge in here.

Just read this and stop.  Please !
DonnaB shallotpeel - 04 Feb 2008 04:39 GMT
In alt.support.diabetes on Sun, 3 Feb 2008 23:54:32 +0100 in Msg.#
<47a6462a$0$9213$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-06.noos.net>, " Frank t2" <a@b.c>
wrote:

> Please - you know we love you all - just exercise some restraint;

I have ... and I will continue to. And, as to bickering, I don't feel that I
am. It's possible to point something out, as I did to Uncle E without
bickering, just as it is possible to disagree with Kurt, as I did, without
bickering.

And, I'm not a child.

> If not - the day will come when no more newbies will dare to post
> and increase our wealth of knowledge in here.

Heavens, it was unbelievable to me the day I landed in here. Today is tame
by those standards. And, I'm still here. Most of the people here are
excellent examples of the best of Usenet, but this is unmoderated Usenet
after all.

Signature

DonnaB shallotpeel

"He who has health has hope; and he who has hope, has everything." - Arabian
Proverb

rk - 03 Feb 2008 17:50 GMT
On Feb 2, 10:21?pm, DonnaB shallotpeel <shallotp...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> In alt.support.diabetes on Sat, 02 Feb 2008 07:09:05 -0600 in Msg.#
> <0J%oj.6706$nK5.3...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, Uncle Enrico
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> My chin is still on my chest. That's how amazing I found what he said to
> be.
Guess, you've forgotten all the nasty harmful words you and others have
said.
You aren't the only one with "feelings".  What goes around comes around.

Oh please, Donna.  Guy wasn't any more unkind to you than you have
been to him.  You and Mack have both been dogpiling on just about
every post he's made.
---
LOL, that's because they have no RL, they are forced to pick on others
behind a screen, to build up their self esteem.  Sad.. very sad.

For you to play the innocent victim is absurd.
-
No, not absurd. I've seen it many times in here Kurt, it's how they play
the sympathy card to get the other bullies to back them.

Go pick on someone else.  Guy has been in this newsgroup for a long
time and has contributed a lot of very positive things.  If you don't
like his posting style, best to just ignore him.
--
Yes, while some of Guy's posts are really out there in center left field. :)
If you stop and really read what he says some days, they do make plenty
of sense and are often quite thought provoking... sometimes, that is the
best form of support.. making you think for yourself.  As for ignoring
posters
lol, I think I'm down to "seeing" maybe 4-5 now.. the list grows shorter by
the day me thinks.

Kurt
Kurt - 03 Feb 2008 18:57 GMT
> On Feb 2, 10:21?pm, DonnaB shallotpeel <shallotp...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
> lol, I think I'm down to "seeing" maybe 4-5 now.. the list grows shorter by
> the day me thinks.

There are a few here who seem to make a game out of tryign to bully
Guy.  It's truly sad.  I admire his restraint in dealing with them.

I am starting to ignore more and more people in here, but not
killfile.  If I were to do that I'd miss the entertainment of reading
a few clueless know-it-alls argue about what "Pimp My Ride" means.
I'm tempted to send the link of that thread over to a friend of mine
who works on that show. Now THAT would be a coffee-spewing-on-screen
moment for real. LOL

Kurt
Cheri - 03 Feb 2008 21:34 GMT
Kurt wrote in message
<8b69ec77-957a-4abf-b51c-acbf714eeae2@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>...
On Feb 3, 9:50�am, "rk" <rkh...@gotcha.com> wrote:

> Yes, while some of Guy's posts are really out there in center left field. :)
> If you stop and really read what he says some days, they do make plenty
> of sense and are often quite thought provoking... sometimes, that is the
> best form of support.. making you think for yourself. �As for
ignoring
> posters
> lol, I think I'm down to "seeing" maybe 4-5 now.. the list grows shorter by
> the day me thinks.

There are a few here who seem to make a game out of tryign to bully
Guy.  It's truly sad.  I admire his restraint in dealing with them.
+++++++

You mean like this? Now, that's what I call bullying. I've never seen
another poster ever be as rude to him. BTW, not agreeing with his
posts isn't bullying.

Cheri

RK - 15 Jan 2005 20:26 GM.

>so guy do us all a favor, since you bitch theres
>no diabetic support, why not STFU so others
>can get back to DM support instead of the 50
>useless threads.

RK - t1
*Disclaimer: i'm not a doctor. I only share personal
experience of being a diabetic. I have no textbook
learning, only life itself.
Ozgirl - 04 Feb 2008 00:46 GMT
> Kurt wrote in message
> <8b69ec77-957a-4abf-b51c-acbf714eeae2@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> another poster ever be as rude to him. BTW, not agreeing with his
> posts isn't bullying.

No, you are wrong, RK is all sweetness and light and butter doesn't melt in
her mouth! She is not rude, hypocritical or down right nasty. But she does
have major memory loss :)

> Cheri
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> experience of being a diabetic. I have no textbook
> learning, only life itself.
DonnaB shallotpeel - 04 Feb 2008 04:44 GMT
In alt.support.diabetes on Sun, 3 Feb 2008 12:50:12 -0500 in Msg.#
<-Lednbn_HajyYzjanZ2dnUVZ_g-dnZ2d@wideopenwest.com>, "rk"

> On Feb 2, 10:21?pm, DonnaB shallotpeel <shallotp...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
[...]

> > Then, I can only suggest that you didn't see Guy specifically be
> > outrageously unkind to me.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Guess, you've forgotten all the nasty harmful words you and others have
> said. You aren't the only one with "feelings".  What goes around comes around.

RK, I can't tell what you're saying & what Kurt has said, so I'll try to
make this short & to the point. (Is this another example of problems some
people have replying after Kurt? If so, ... it certainly is a hindrance to
good communication.)

But, no, I haven't forgotten nasty harmful things I've said, because I don't
believe I have done so.

> Oh please, Donna.  Guy wasn't any more unkind to you than you have
> been to him.  You and Mack have both been dogpiling on just about
> every post he's made.
> ---
> LOL, that's because they have no RL, they are forced to pick on others
> behind a screen, to build up their self esteem.  Sad.. very sad.

One thing has nothing to do with the other Reika. Yes, I have a RL. Yes, you
have a RL. That we may agree or disagree about things here has no logical
connection to that fact. I don't know why you want to paint yourself in
corners like this some of the time. It is truly great when you do not do so.

Signature

DonnaB shallotpeel

"He who helps a friend in woe is like a fur coat in the snow." - Russian
Proverb

RodS - 04 Feb 2008 05:12 GMT
Anyone else having trouble reading these posts? I have noticed just
recently that some posts here have no lines or markings to allow you to
see what is the original and what is a reply, wonder what reader/poster
they are using ?

  (- -)
=m=(_)=m=
RodS T2
Australia

> In alt.support.diabetes on Sun, 3 Feb 2008 12:50:12 -0500 in Msg.#

> RK, I can't tell what you're saying & what Kurt has said, so I'll try to
> make this short & to the point. (Is this another example of problems some
> people have replying after Kurt? If so, ... it certainly is a hindrance to
> good communication.)
W. Baker - 04 Feb 2008 14:00 GMT
: Anyone else having trouble reading these posts? I have noticed just
: recently that some posts here have no lines or markings to allow you to
: see what is the original and what is a reply, wonder what reader/poster
: they are using ?

:    (- -)
: =m=(_)=m=
: RodS T2
: Australia

: > In alt.support.diabetes on Sun, 3 Feb 2008 12:50:12 -0500 in Msg.#

: > RK, I can't tell what you're saying & what Kurt has said, so I'll try to
: > make this short & to the point. (Is this another example of problems some
: > people have replying after Kurt? If so, ... it certainly is a hindrance to
: > good communication.)

I have noticed that too.  It ust used to be with Ozgirl's replies to
Kurt's posts, which she now clearly indicates as there seems to be some
isp interface problem, but in this thread there seems to be new problems,
particularly with Donna's and Reisa's posts to each other.  No idea why.

Wendy
Robert Miles - 04 Feb 2008 21:14 GMT
Me too.

> Anyone else having trouble reading these posts? I have noticed just
> recently that some posts here have no lines or markings to allow you to
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>> to
>> good communication.)
Màck©® - 04 Feb 2008 16:50 GMT
>Oh please, Donna.  Guy wasn't any more unkind to you than you have
>been to him.  You and Mack have both been dogpiling on just about
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Kurt

you are being dishonest again.

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

Frank t2 - 03 Feb 2008 19:10 GMT
"DonnaB shallotpeel" <shallotpeel@comcast.net> a écrit  ...

>> >> You well know that there can be considerable unkindness here, but yet
>> >> you continue to venture out. Kudos for the courage.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> My chin is still on my chest. That's how amazing I found what he said to
> be.

<hugs Donnas head in his arms> .. there, there now, Donna ...

We're all here for you ...
Uncle Enrico - 07 Feb 2008 00:31 GMT
> In alt.support.diabetes on Sat, 02 Feb 2008 07:09:05 -0600 in Msg.#
> <0J%oj.6706$nK5.3197@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, Uncle Enrico <Uncle@nospam.com>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> My chin is still on my chest. That's how amazing I found what he said to be.

I don't doubt that there's truth in what you're saying, but I know one
thing, we feel the hurt we receive more than the hurt we give.

He gets slammed way too much, here. If we were all in a room together,
people would treat him a lot more kindly than is done here.

I don't see the point of people nitpicking his stuff.
DonnaB shallotpeel - 07 Feb 2008 01:37 GMT
In alt.support.diabetes on Thu, 07 Feb 2008 00:31:04 GMT in Msg.#
<cjsqj.2033$R84.313@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>, Uncle Enrico
<Uncle@nospam.com>  wrote:

> > In alt.support.diabetes on Sat, 02 Feb 2008 07:09:05 -0600 in Msg.#
> > <0J%oj.6706$nK5.3197@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, Uncle Enrico <Uncle@nospam.com>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> I don't doubt that there's truth in what you're saying, but I know one
> thing, we feel the hurt we receive more than the hurt we give.

I don't necessarily think that's true. I'd rather take it on the chin myself
than hurt someone else. And, I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

> He gets slammed way too much, here. If we were all in a room together,
> people would treat him a lot more kindly than is done here.

I'd have to just agree to disagree with you about this. I don't see Guy get
slammed here. And, while there's no way to compare a text only environment
of communication to being face to face, I can't predict how Guy would be
toward the other people present.

> I don't see the point of people nitpicking his stuff.

I'm not nitpicking a single thing. But, in general, I agree that nitpicking
is a waste of time - unless people are all simply enjoying themselves by
playing with words, etc.

And, now, I'll just have to be shocked that someone else apparently thinks
it's okay for one poster to say the things Guy said to & about me. This
began about being about courage & going out of one's way to praise Guy for
his courage. There was NO courage shown in that behavior and there was
nothing that was deserving of any praise.

Signature

DonnaB shallotpeel
"Fair winds and following seas." - traditional Navy blessing

Màck©® - 07 Feb 2008 07:26 GMT
>> In alt.support.diabetes on Sat, 02 Feb 2008 07:09:05 -0600 in Msg.#
>> <0J%oj.6706$nK5.3197@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, Uncle Enrico <Uncle@nospam.com>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
>I don't see the point of people nitpicking his stuff.

eesh, I would not trust anyone who treated me differently face to face
than how they do through here.

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

Uncle Enrico - 07 Feb 2008 14:31 GMT
> eesh, I would not trust anyone who treated me differently face to face
> than how they do through here.

Two points about the above:

People are more likely to be rude or unkind on Usenet than in
face-to-face meetings--it's the anonymity.

The bickering that goes on here very likely deters participation by
people needing help.

You see this in the defensive language used by new people asking questions.

"This question may have been asked  before but..." or
"Please forgive me if this is a dumb question but..."

On the other hand, if someone gives dangerous advice, people should jump
in--which people do here very well.
Cheri - 07 Feb 2008 18:05 GMT
Uncle Enrico wrote in message ...

>People are more likely to be rude or unkind on Usenet than in
>face-to-face meetings--it's the anonymity.

I don't see all that much anonymity here though. People have visited
other posters, people know each others address, and in many cases
phone numbers etc. I believe that most people here are pretty much who
they say they are, and act accordingly IRL. I also believe that many
things that are said in the printed word can be mistaken as rudeness
or unkindness, simply because one can't see anothers face while it's
being said. Of course, there's no mistaking some of it. :-)

Cheri
Alan S - 07 Feb 2008 21:19 GMT
>The bickering that goes on here very likely deters participation by
>people needing help.

Participation by posting is not necessary to gain a benefit.
Lurkers also participate and benefit.

I find it hard to believe that any person seriously
concerned enough about their health to search the net or the
web will be deterred by "bickering". Odd priorities if that
is the case.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest: LuckyKat
guys@consolidated.net - 07 Feb 2008 21:52 GMT
>>The bickering that goes on here very likely deters participation by
>>people needing help.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
>Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Alan, we have lost a lot of newbies and a lot
very technically competent people.

The facr t this is still going on is not a good sign..
Alan S - 07 Feb 2008 22:49 GMT
>>>The bickering that goes on here very likely deters participation by
>>>people needing help.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>The facr t this is still going on is not a good sign..  

Guy, people move on for all sorts of reasons, not
necessarily to do with bickering or trivialities. Some left
large gaps - OldAl, Jenny, Annette, Jennifer to name just a
few. We learnt from them all. But others have arrived, will
stay a while, and will move on in their turn.

As will you and I someday.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest: LuckyKat
DonnaB shallotpeel - 07 Feb 2008 22:07 GMT
In alt.support.diabetes on Thu, 07 Feb 2008 08:31:47 -0600 in Msg.#
<AoGqj.7365$nK5.2802@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, Uncle Enrico <Uncle@nospam.com>
wrote:

> You see this in the defensive language used by new people asking questions.
>
> "This question may have been asked  before but..." or
> "Please forgive me if this is a dumb question but..."

These are just newbie prefaces, found anywhere, anytime. If they are
defensive at all, it's simply the defensiveness of being new, ... to
anything.

Signature

DonnaB shallotpeel

"May the roads rise to meet you. May the wind be at your back. May the sun
shine warm upon your face; The rain fall soft upon your fields And until we
meet again, May God hold you in the palm of this hand." - Gaelic Blessing

DonnaB shallotpeel - 07 Feb 2008 22:12 GMT
In alt.support.diabetes on Thu, 07 Feb 2008 08:31:47 -0600 in Msg.#
<AoGqj.7365$nK5.2802@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, Uncle Enrico <Uncle@nospam.com>
wrote:

> People are more likely to be rude or unkind on Usenet than in
> face-to-face meetings--it's the anonymity.

Much has been written and studied about this as a phenomenon. When it comes
to sock-puppetry & trolling & possibly to some people, yes, it may be the
case. But, as a general rule, in a group like this, most people likely do
not use a false persona or behave badly because they are anonymous. Most
people here aren't anonymous. Most people here embody *support* which is
what this group is about.

Signature

DonnaB shallotpeel, T2 since June 06, USA

"May your glass be ever full. May the roof over your head be always strong.
And may you be in heaven half an hour Before the devil knows you're dead." -
Irish blessing

Màck©® - 09 Feb 2008 14:46 GMT
>> eesh, I would not trust anyone who treated me differently face to face
>> than how they do through here.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>People are more likely to be rude or unkind on Usenet than in
>face-to-face meetings--it's the anonymity.

I work with two faced little sh.ts.  to your face they smile and lie
their a.s off behind your back.  I piss them off all the time because
I call them on their sh.t.

I would rather someone be honest and let me know they simply do not
like me than say they do and get caught in a lie.

>The bickering that goes on here very likely deters participation by
>people needing help.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>"This question may have been asked  before but..." or
>"Please forgive me if this is a dumb question but..."

This has zero to do with any bickering that takes place.

>On the other hand, if someone gives dangerous advice, people should jump
>in--which people do here very well.

;}

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

Màck©® - 04 Feb 2008 16:49 GMT
>> In alt.support.diabetes on Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:18:24 GMT in Msg.#
>> <kDHoj.4934$J41.4180@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>, Uncle Enrico
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>One disclaimer: I don't read everything here, but I've read enough of
>Guy's stuff to have a pretty good sense of how he works.

then you obviously do not read all of his posts.

guy is no more innocent than I am.

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

Uncle Enrico - 06 Feb 2008 22:46 GMT
>>> In alt.support.diabetes on Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:18:24 GMT in Msg.#
>>> <kDHoj.4934$J41.4180@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>, Uncle Enrico
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> guy is no more innocent than I am.

Yeah. We're all guilty in one way or another.
Actually, Mack, I must have missed a thread or two because I was under
the impression that you and Guy were getting along pretty well until I
read this scuffle.
Màck©® - 07 Feb 2008 07:24 GMT
>Yeah. We're all guilty in one way or another.
>Actually, Mack, I must have missed a thread or two because I was under
>the impression that you and Guy were getting along pretty well until I
>read this scuffle.

what guy frequently fails to realize is that he is defeating himself
by his own actions.

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

DarkSentinel - 04 Feb 2008 16:35 GMT
>>>>The problem in hiring diabetics is it is well known that a few are
>>>>very very overbearing and make demands using diabetes as a tool.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I live and worked for over twenty five years with diabetes.I do
> know the game.

As do every one one of us that has worked with it as well. So don't try and
make it look like you know better than the rest of us.

> I am not the one making excuses for alleged
> poor behavior. I did my job and did not emphasize
> my diabetes.  Tat was not easy but I know better.
>
> The "poor soul" way is a por way to go.

Again, who here has made any excuses?

> Long before I could spell diabetes I say quite a few cases where a
> negative diabetic precluded my hiring  a good person.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> The problem is that lot of other diabetics need job opportunities.

Again, you are making broad accusations based on the alleged actions of a
few. How are we a pain in the a.s more than any other group? So, standing up
for ourselves is argumentative? Guess that means that anyone with a
disability that stands up for themselves is argumentative too then, right?
You might try finding out the difference between being argumentative, and
standing up for ones self. Seems again that your perspective on this is a
bit skewed.

Signature

T2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet
http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel
Undo the munge to reply by email

ted rosenberg - 28 Feb 2008 03:54 GMT
I have been on Byetta for almost 2 years.  At first I lost a lot of
weight and my Insulin use went down from 400 to 40.  Then my weight
crept up a little, and I went back up to almost 50.

About 2 months ago I noticed that there was still a drop on the end of
the pen after I took my shot.  I started leaving my Byetta pen in me for
about 30 seconds.  BANG, I lost another 15 pounds, and my Insulin use
dropped to 12 units..  I am  testing a lot more as I have had a number
of lows where I had to eat something
DLynch - 28 Feb 2008 04:42 GMT
>I have been on Byetta for almost 2 years.  At first I lost a lot of weight
>and my Insulin use went down from 400 to 40.  Then my weight crept up a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> 12 units..  I am  testing a lot more as I have had a number of lows where
> I had to eat something

Thanks for the advice Ted.  I just started on Byetta 2 weeks ago, so any
info I get is appreciated.
Deb
Kurt - 28 Feb 2008 05:16 GMT
> I have been on Byetta for almost 2 years. �At first I lost a lot of
> weight and my Insulin use went down from 400 to 40. �Then my weight
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> dropped to 12 units.. �I am �testing a lot more as I have had a number
> of lows where I had to eat something

I don't take Byetta, but I do use the Humalog Pen and have the same
problem with not getting all the dose I should because of the
"droplet" that appears after I withdraw the needle.  I actually called
the company to complain about it and they advised that I change the
needle more often (they say every time, but I never do), dump a couple
of units before each injection (which seems like a waste), and to keep
my finger on the button for a good 10 seconds before withdrawing.
Like you, that seemed to have the best effect.  I have the kind of pen
that allows 1/2 units because I am very low-dose (about 3 units per
meal). Depending on what I eat, that extra or less 1/2 unit can make a
big difference.

Not sure what advice you are looking for, but I can sympathize with
your frustration about that bead at the tip of the needle.  At first I
thought it wasn't important, but when trying to keep tight sugars that
little drop can be more important than it looks.

Here are a couple of links that have some relevancy to this:

http://www.byetta.com/patient/byetta_pen_faq_151.jsp

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/72510524/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&S
RETRY=0


Kurt
ted rosenberg - 28 Feb 2008 13:41 GMT
>  
>> I have been on Byetta for almost 2 years. �At first I lost a lot of
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
>  
<snip>
I am not looking for advice, I am giving it
and, Byetta is not at all like Insulin pens.  It is a premeasured dose,
and you can't sim,ply "dump a couple"
Evelyn Ruut - 28 Feb 2008 11:21 GMT
>I have been on Byetta for almost 2 years.  At first I lost a lot of weight
>and my Insulin use went down from 400 to 40.  Then my weight crept up a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> 12 units..  I am  testing a lot more as I have had a number of lows where
> I had to eat something

Hi Ted, I have been on the Byetta almost a year and a half now, and I notice
the same thing.   Even with holding the pen 'in' for a while before removing
it occasionally I STILL get a good sized droplet coming out the end of the
needle tip after removing.   I find it helpful to keep the pressure on the
plunger while I leave it in, and wait extra long before removing to prevent
losing some of the medication that way.

I too noticed that I was starting to gain a little weight back and feeling
hunger again, and my doctor told me this recent visit to give the shot as
long as an hour before eating, rather than a half hour.   This has been
working pretty well for me.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

C. Nicholson - 28 Feb 2008 13:51 GMT
"ted rosenberg" <> wrote in message >I

> About 2 months ago I noticed that there was still a drop on the end of the
> pen after I took my shot.  I started leaving my Byetta pen in me for about
> 30 seconds.  BANG, I lost another 15 pounds, and my Insulin use dropped to
> 12 units..  I am  testing a lot more as I have had a number of lows where
> I had to eat something

Thanks Ted and Evelyn for your advice. I too have been creeping back up
there on the scale. My doctor kept me on 5mcgs for 6 months then recently
moved me to the 10mcgs. But it still seems like it is not working weight
wise. (blood sugars are good, which is why we take it,,,,, but sure use to
helped with cravings and such) I'll try the slower injections and the
waiting longer before eating to see if that helps. (oh, Doctor moved me to
the 10 because the blood sugars were creeping up not because of weight, I'm
only up 10lbs but still am down 60lbs since when I found out Type II)

Thank you,
Cheryl
Mikeb - 28 Feb 2008 16:24 GMT
I too noticed a small drop forming when ever I turned the knob after
injecting. Some one posted a while back to turn the knob when the needle was
still in to get the full dose, I started doing that and very seldom see the
extra drop when I remove the needle. I have also noticed that sometimes the
knob turns fairly easy and other times I have to press the button quite hard
to get it down to where the knob can be turned. I did lose some weight when
I started, but not lately because it's cold out side and most of my time is
setting in the house. I expect to lose more as spring comes and I go out and
do things outside. Except for the needle, it is a good drug.
Evelyn Ruut - 28 Feb 2008 22:28 GMT
>I too noticed a small drop forming when ever I turned the knob after
>injecting. Some one posted a while back to turn the knob when the needle
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>time is setting in the house. I expect to lose more as spring comes and I
>go out and do things outside. Except for the needle, it is a good drug.

I only turn the knob to move it up to the next dose when I am ready to
administer it.   The drop doesn't seem to be there, then.

I don't much mind the needle.   It's not a painful one, and it is nice and
convenient in the pen form.   I really love that it suppresses my hunger,
which is presumably because the insulin/sugar relationship is finally in
some sort of balance and doing what it is supposed to do.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Jefferson - 29 Feb 2008 19:37 GMT
Hi Ted:
> I have been on Byetta for almost 2 years.  At first I lost a lot of
> weight and my Insulin use went down from 400 to 40.  Then my weight
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> dropped to 12 units..  I am  testing a lot more as I have had a number
> of lows where I had to eat something

It looks like your time on Byetta is beyond the clinical trial times.
Apparently you were not getting the full dose and your change in
injection routine has brought you to the full dose.

The following is a graphic of Byetta's effect on HbA1c for a 52 week
period.  It is interesting the the 10 unit dose seemed to max out at
about 12 weeks, but reversed itself to begin a less rapid decline at
about 29 weeks. FIGURE 1. Effect of exenatide on hemoglobin A1c in
clinical studies - http://www.ccjm.org/PDFFILES/Hoogwerf5_06.pdf.

The people in the clinical trials did not use insulin injections.
Your insulin sensitivity seems to have improved over a longer time
period which seems like a good sign for this drug. The 3 trials shown in
Table 1 had weight losses of –0.9 to –2.8 kilograms which is about 2 to
6 pounds after 30 months. Clinical trials (shown in figure 2) were still
having weight reductions at 52 weeks. It is interesting that you are
still losing weight while also on insulin injections.  Table 3 in this
article said that Byetta was not FDA approved with insulin injections.
(Question articles publication date) At the point in time the article
said that "combined with insulin therapy 1) Studies in progress 2) Risk
of hypoglycemia may be higher than with other regimens 3)
Glucose-lowering efficacy may be reduced with long-standing diabetes
and low endogenous insulin secretory capacity 4) Decreased hemoglobin
A1c is uncertain; decreased weight is likely.

"Development of an exenatide formulation with once-weekly dosing that
reduces A1C and weight could provide patients and clinicians with a
novel tool with which to treat type 2 diabetes. In this study,
once-weekly exenatide LAR for 15 weeks had multiple metabolic effects,
including significant reductions of A1C, weight, and fasting glucose and
marked reduction of self-monitored postprandial glucose. Treatment with
2.0 mg exenatide LAR but not with 0.8 mg reduced body weight, indicating
that higher exenatide concentrations are required for effects on
weight." Source: Effects of Once-Weekly Dosing of a Long-Acting Release
Formulation of Exenatide on Glucose Control and Body Weight in Subjects
With Type 2 Diabetes -
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/30/6/1487

Frank
ted rosenberg - 01 Mar 2008 18:50 GMT
> Hi Ted:
>> I have been on Byetta for almost 2 years. At first I lost a lot of
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> this article said that Byetta was not FDA approved with insulin
> injections.
That is because there were no tests run with Insulin. In fact, many of
us who were on large doses of Insulin continued to take Insulin

As to weight loss, I have lost over 60 lbs, and others I have talked to
have also lost a lot more than were shown by the studies

> (Question articles publication date) At the point in time the article
> said that "combined with insulin therapy 1) Studies in progress 2)
> Risk of hypoglycemia may be higher than with other regimens 3)
> Glucose-lowering efficacy may be reduced with long-standing diabetes
> and low endogenous insulin secretory capacity 4) Decreased hemoglobin
> A1c is uncertain; decreased weight is likely.
increased risk of hypo is a certainty. Those of us who have spent a lot
of time on Insulin are used to the problem, and can adjust easily

and my A1c is WAY down since I started on Byetta

> "Development of an exenatide formulation with once-weekly dosing that
> reduces A1C and weight could provide patients and clinicians with a
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Frank
willbill - 02 Mar 2008 15:05 GMT
> I have been on Byetta for almost 2 years.  

ok

> At first I lost a lot of weight

i don't need to lose weight

> and my Insulin use went down from 400 to 40.  

holy mackrel!  you were taking 400 units
of insulin per day?!

> Then my weight
> crept up a little, and I went back up to almost 50.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> dropped to 12 units..  I am  testing a lot more as I have had a number
> of lows where I had to eat something

fwiw, my doc pushed Byetta at me a few months ago.  :(

i told him no way until it's been "tested" for
at least 20 years

i sometimes get that (drop) with my own injections
(of insulin with 30 unit syringe 30 gage needle),
but the drop is well less than 1 unit

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

(just take a used syringe and before destroying it,
fill it part way with water and with it pointing up,
practice slowly pushing 1 unit out so that a drop
forms on the top of the needle)

i find it hard to believe that the "drop" on the
end of the needle would make that much difference

out of curiosity, how much of this Byetta do you inject?

i mean, a standard vial of insulin is 10 ml and contains
1000 units (100 units/ml)

bill t1 since '57