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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / March 2008

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Soap. Does it mattter?

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Andy <q> - 13 Jan 2008 18:22 GMT
Soap. Does it mattter?

I shower with ivory soap but I wash my hands in the kitchen sink using the
palmolive antibacterial liquid dish sink soap for taking readings. Does it
matter?

Unscented Ivory is the plainest soap made (I think). I guess I could toss an
ivory soap dish by the kitchen sink? ;)

Andy

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Tiger_Lily - 13 Jan 2008 18:40 GMT
> Soap. Does it mattter?
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Andy

i find that Ivory leaves a film on the skin

Dove doesn't do this to me, and i buy the unscented variety

kate
Andy <q> - 13 Jan 2008 19:11 GMT
Tiger_Lily said...

>> Soap. Does it mattter?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> kate

kate,

My Doc talked me out of dove saying it had too much oil in it. Another
friend a dermatologist recommended Lever 2000 but they make too many
versions to choose from.

Just wonder if scents, oils, etc., effect readings. Easy enough to test,
obviously.

I've never washed my hands so many times in a day ever!

Ah well, a small price to pay.

Best,

Andy.

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Alice Faber - 13 Jan 2008 19:36 GMT
> Tiger_Lily said...
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> Just wonder if scents, oils, etc., effect readings. Easy enough to test,
> obviously.

I did get some unusually high readings once from a really
fruity-smelling liquid soap. (In a period of time when my fasting
readings were all in the 105-115 range, a few days of 150+ with no other
change in routine stand out.)

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"[xxx] has very definite opinions, and does not suffer fools lightly.
This, apparently, upsets the fools."
    ---BB cuts to the pith of a flame-fest

Trinkwasser - 22 Feb 2008 21:40 GMT
>I did get some unusually high readings once from a really
>fruity-smelling liquid soap. (In a period of time when my fasting
>readings were all in the 105-115 range, a few days of 150+ with no other
>change in routine stand out.)

So dont' eat it then

<runs away>
BillW50 - 24 Feb 2008 21:00 GMT
>> I did get some unusually high readings once from a really
>> fruity-smelling liquid soap. (In a period of time when my fasting
>> readings were all in the 105-115 range, a few days of 150+ with no
>> other change in routine stand out.)

I wouldn't doubt this for a second! Lots of things are absorbed though
the skin. Although some people like our own Alan and most medical
professionals believe that only medication and carb intake are the only
things responsible for BG levels changing. :(

Signature

Bill
DX 1992 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 4/2007 10.5
A1c 6/2007 7.4
A1c 8/2007 6.8

Alan S - 27 Feb 2008 00:20 GMT
>I wouldn't doubt this for a second! Lots of things are absorbed though
>the skin. Although some people like our own Alan and most medical
>professionals believe that only medication and carb intake are the only
>things responsible for BG levels changing. :(

Please don't misquote me Bill. I believe nothing of the
sort.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest: ACCORD, Foxes and Grapes
Oleg Lego - 27 Feb 2008 05:41 GMT
>>I wouldn't doubt this for a second! Lots of things are absorbed though
>>the skin. Although some people like our own Alan and most medical
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Please don't misquote me Bill. I believe nothing of the
>sort.

Still think feeding the troll is useful?

Signature

Larry, T2, Saskatchewan, Canada.
DX 24 Aug 07. D&E
Metformin 2000mg, Ramipril, Simvastatin
Dx A1c 8.1 : Latest 5.1

BillW50 - 02 Mar 2008 02:36 GMT
>>> I wouldn't doubt this for a second! Lots of things are absorbed
>>> though the skin. Although some people like our own Alan and most
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Still think feeding the troll is useful?

What do you want, lowlife? If I show the quote that proves Alan a liar,
are you going to pay me $10,000? Do you too do your own research like I
do? I seriously doubt any of it. Why? Because you are nothing but a
totally idiot who can not debate anybody who does their homework.
Lowlifes like you should be in jail for harming millions of people.
Sadly, you are free to continue. Just like the other scumbags out there.
So make up all of the BS you want too. Those that do their own research
knows how full of it you are! Your credibility is nothing until you can
start to show some evidence for your claims. Care to bet me $10,000 now?

Signature

Bill
DX 2002 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 04/2007 10.5
A1c 06/2007 7.4
A1c 08/2007 6.8
A1c 02/2008 6.3

BillW50 - 02 Mar 2008 02:27 GMT
>> I wouldn't doubt this for a second! Lots of things are absorbed
>> though the skin. Although some people like our own Alan and most
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Please don't misquote me Bill. I believe nothing of the
> sort.

Bull! You told me that controlling BG is easy! Control your carbs and
you control your BG. Sorry, but that is diabetes 101. It is far more
complex than that.

I have been doing experiments and eating during the testing less than 30
carbs a day. Yes it helps, but there are far other factors that comes
into play which I don't know nor does anybody else know them all either.

Signature

Bill
DX 2002 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 04/2007 10.5
A1c 06/2007 7.4
A1c 08/2007 6.8
A1c 02/2008 6.3

Alan S - 02 Mar 2008 03:18 GMT
>>> I wouldn't doubt this for a second! Lots of things are absorbed
>>> though the skin. Although some people like our own Alan and most
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>carbs a day. Yes it helps, but there are far other factors that comes
>into play which I don't know nor does anybody else know them all either.

I'm not entering into "you said, I said" match. Provide a
direct link to where I said anything as unqualified as that
to you or anybody else. Easy? I wouldn't ever say that.

I won't be answering you further, except to clarify further
malicious misquotes.

Alan, T2, Australia.
BillW50 - 02 Mar 2008 03:30 GMT
>>>> I wouldn't doubt this for a second! Lots of things are absorbed
>>>> though the skin. Although some people like our own Alan and most
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> I won't be answering you further, except to clarify further
> malicious misquotes.

Let's wait and see what coward Oleg Lego has to say about the $10,000
bet first! Once the coward backs down, I will be free to provide your
very harmful quote. I know it had hurt me very much and I am sure others
too. I am not afraid of the truth, but you do seem to not like the truth
at all. This bothers me very much. As if you don't like the truth, how
good can you be? I am being totally honest. As people who don't like the
truth are really just down right evil people. Do you disagree?

Signature

Bill
DX 2002 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 04/2007 10.5
A1c 06/2007 7.4
A1c 08/2007 6.8
A1c 02/2008 6.3

Cheri - 02 Mar 2008 14:55 GMT
BillW50 wrote in message speaking of Alans advice

>bet first! Once the coward backs down, I will be free to provide your
>very harmful quote. I know it had hurt me very much and I am sure others
>too.

I don't believe you. I've never seen Alan post *advice*( never does he
say this is the only way)  that could hurt anybody.

Cheri
DonnaB shallotpeel - 02 Mar 2008 19:55 GMT
In alt.support.diabetes on Sun, 2 Mar 2008 06:55:16 -0800 in Msg.#
<J4mdnSO95PRVIlfanZ2dnUVZ_uGknZ2d@softcom.net>, "Cheri"
<gserviceatinreachdotcom>  wrote:

> BillW50 wrote in message speaking of Alans advice
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I don't believe you. I've never seen Alan post *advice*( never does he
> say this is the only way)  that could hurt anybody.

I don't recall ever seeing what Bill is saying either.

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DonnaB shallotpeel  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhlI7BzRO3E

BillW50 - 11 Mar 2008 17:39 GMT
> BillW50 wrote in message speaking of Alans advice
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Cheri

In news:0g1ms3pqbkorqf02fgdfc03heii0a847gn@4ax.com,
DonnaB shallotpeel typed on Sun, 02 Mar 2008 14:55:40 -0500:
> In alt.support.diabetes on Sun, 2 Mar 2008 06:55:16 -0800 in Msg.#
> <J4mdnSO95PRVIlfanZ2dnUVZ_uGknZ2d@softcom.net>, "Cheri"
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> I don't recall ever seeing what Bill is saying either.

See:

In news:pdckr3d0qmeqeihsgjl7df4bof8cat714d@4ax.com,
Alan S typed on Tue, 19 Feb 2008 12:38:23 +1100

Or my most recent post:

In news:47d6ac44$0$1344$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com,
BillW50 typed on Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:59:23 -0500

Signature

Bill
DX 2002 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 04/2007 10.5
A1c 06/2007 7.4
A1c 08/2007 6.8
A1c 02/2008 6.3

Cheri - 11 Mar 2008 18:48 GMT
OK, I still don't see what there is in Alans' post that would be
harmful? Perhaps you could point out exactly what is harmful to you or
others in his post.

Cheri

BillW50 wrote in message
<47d6b5a5$0$1340$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com>...
>> BillW50 wrote in message speaking of Alans advice
>>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>A1c 08/2007 6.8
>A1c 02/2008 6.3
BillW50 - 11 Mar 2008 19:45 GMT
> OK, I still don't see what there is in Alans' post that would be
> harmful? Perhaps you could point out exactly what is harmful to you or
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>> In news:47d6ac44$0$1344$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com,
>> BillW50 typed on Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:59:23 -0500

Hi Cheri! I have very carefully eaten the same foods, exercised the
same, and I have taken the same amount of insulin. I do this for my own
personal research. As I have learned that studies and doctors don't
always tell you the truth. And what I have found is about 70% of the
time, my BG can be closely predicted. Although about 30% of the time, it
cannot be.

The worst of it is that I also have found that my BG will stick from
anywhere from 4 hours to 3 days. And what I mean is I can eat far more
or far less and I stay stuck in the 150 to 180 range. I also changed my
insulin dose to try to change it as well. And it takes about double the
amount I usually take just to move it down a hair (like in the 120
range) with barely eating anything. Later I found out that my father
also has the same complaint. It acts like your body has taken over
regulating your BG, it is just too high for my tastes. Although I have
to admit, I feel the best in this range. But I am told I am not supposed
too.

I don't know why this being stuck happens and I complain about it to my
doctors and here. And people like Alan as well as my doctors attack me
for complaining about it and it is all my fault my BG goes high. Well my
own personal research shows it is a lot more than just tracking carbs,
medication, and exercise. As that is only Diabetes 101.

So when Alice Faber wrote "I did get some unusually high readings once
from a really fruity-smelling liquid soap. (In a period of time when my
fasting readings were all in the 105-115 range, a few days of 150+ with
no other change in routine stand out.", I thought that could be one
reason. As the body absorbs lots of things through the skin, why not
carbs? Probably one of zillions of other reasons.

Just because people like Alan and the medical community has never
experienced unusual BG readings, I don't think they should attack others
who has. Or treat us as stupid idiots and that we can't follow Diabetes
101. :-(

Signature

Bill
DX 2002 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 04/2007 10.5
A1c 06/2007 7.4
A1c 08/2007 6.8
A1c 02/2008 6.3

Tiger_Lily - 11 Mar 2008 20:25 GMT
>> OK, I still don't see what there is in Alans' post that would be
>> harmful? Perhaps you could point out exactly what is harmful to you or
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
> who has. Or treat us as stupid idiots and that we can't follow Diabetes
> 101. :-(

Bill, what meds do you take to address your insulin resistance? it will
help your insulin do it's job much better

also, i see NO WHERE that Alan has attacked you or treated you like a
stupid idiot

get an anger management course, please!

kate
BillW50 - 11 Mar 2008 21:59 GMT
> Bill, what meds do you take to address your insulin resistance? it
> will help your insulin do it's job much better

Just insulin Kate. I had taken metformin alone for a short time back in
2002. I suffered a few lows while driving a semi (18 wheeler) and I said
the hell with this (as someone could get killed) and threw them away. I
continued without treatment until 4/2007 and they put me on insulin. Of
course do to Federal Law, I can never drive a semi ever again as long as
I take insulin. So I have to decide once again whether to take my
medication or not. The medical profession has this stupid idea once you
are on insulin, you can never go off of it. Strangely some have, but it
doesn't matter to them.

> also, i see NO WHERE that Alan has attacked you or treated you like a
> stupid idiot

People probably can't see it from one post. But I read all of them and
it is very clear to me. And I invite you to do the same.

> get an anger management course, please!

Funny no problems when my BG is up in the 150 to 180+ range. The problem
only appears when I am in the 110 or less range. And anger only comes
from high beta brain waves anyway. And I have discovered at least 10
years ago that I can control this like a switch. Pretty neat since it
seems like 99% of the population does not have this ability. But it
seems some can learn to do so. Also as a side effect, I can turn off all
logic and go straight into all emotion mode. Which is very intense when
making love and we both benefit greatly.

Sadly when my BG is in the normal range, I can't even mentally find that
switch. Worse, I don't even care to find it when my BG is so-called
normal. And I serious doubt that an anger management course will help
one bit. As I can take more crap then anybody else I know (and I have
during all of my life). And the real problem is that I have so much
intelligence and see how things are working and that society is going
downhill really fast. Yet virtually nobody is smart enough to understand
or comprehended it. And their complacency is the biggest problem why
they can't see it.

You seem to place a lot of trust in the medical profession. So much that
you seem to trust your life with them. Although I have found that
ignoring my own intelligence and trusting in them can be very deadly.
Maybe you trust in somebody who can't even set their own clock on their
VCR, but I can't. I have been burned too many times now by doing so. Now
they have to prove they know what they are talking about before I can
trust them. Even then, you still have to be careful!

For example, I just stumbled across this site today and I know little
about it. But it does list more misdeeds by the medical community on one
single page than I ever have found in my life. And what I only ask of
you Kate, is to stop being complacent and to do your own research and
see for yourself.

http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/compliance/links/news.html

It wouldn't surprise me at all if this URL gets removed from the
Internet. Yes I have seen this before too.

Signature

Bill
DX 2002 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 04/2007 10.5
A1c 06/2007 7.4
A1c 08/2007 6.8
A1c 02/2008 6.3

Ozgirl - 11 Mar 2008 23:07 GMT
>> Bill, what meds do you take to address your insulin resistance? it
>> will help your insulin do it's job much better
>
> Just insulin Kate. I had taken metformin alone for a short time back in
> 2002. I suffered a few lows while driving a semi (18 wheeler) and I said
> the hell with this (as someone could get killed) and threw them away.

Then you are pushing sh.t up hill. What is your weight? If you only took
Metformin for a short while then you were probably just going thru the
initial teething problems of gaining control and learning how to avoid
hypos. If you had persevered and got some good advice you may have been able
to continue the Metformin. How low were your lows?

Going without any treatment for years probably hastened your diabetic
progression. If you were to go back on metformin and start reducing your
insulin , watching your carbs etc, you may not need to continue with
insulin. You sound like you just need some good advice. It is a pity you are
resistant to the kind of advice given in here. What is your daily meal plan?
Julie Bove - 11 Mar 2008 23:21 GMT
>>> Bill, what meds do you take to address your insulin resistance? it
>>> will help your insulin do it's job much better
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> are resistant to the kind of advice given in here. What is your daily meal
> plan?

He's the one that said he was doing iceberg lettuce and milk.  Then he said
he wasn't.  I'm thinking troll.
BillW50 - 12 Mar 2008 03:17 GMT
>>>> Bill, what meds do you take to address your insulin resistance? it
>>>> will help your insulin do it's job much better
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> He's the one that said he was doing iceberg lettuce and milk.

Yes that was me.

> Then he said he wasn't.

Yes, I got so hammered for doing so, I questioned myself (although it
worked in the past with me). Although I thought I was doing fine. But
despite my own judgment, I listened to you all.

> I'm thinking troll.

Oh since I became a loving slave and listened to whatever you people had
to say and then I suddenly became a troll? Please tell me in your
wildest dreams how that could be true Julie? Because as smart as I think
I am, I just can't piece that one together. But if you can, please share
it with us. And if you somehow can piece that one together, can I have
the rights to the movie? As a great movie is having nobody guessing what
happens at the end of it. And for once, you got me. As I have no idea
how you got there.

Signature

Bill
DX 2002 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 04/2007 10.5
A1c 06/2007 7.4
A1c 08/2007 6.8
A1c 02/2008 6.3

Oleg Lego - 12 Mar 2008 03:23 GMT
>>>> Bill, what meds do you take to address your insulin resistance? it
>>>> will help your insulin do it's job much better
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>He's the one that said he was doing iceberg lettuce and milk.  Then he said
>he wasn't.  I'm thinking troll.

Not a shadow of a doubt.

Signature

Larry, T2, Saskatchewan, Canada.
DX 24 Aug 07. D&E
Metformin 2000mg, Ramipril, Simvastatin
Dx A1c 8.1 : Latest 5.1 (4 Mar 08)

BillW50 - 12 Mar 2008 04:21 GMT
>>>>> Bill, what meds do you take to address your insulin resistance? it
>>>>> will help your insulin do it's job much better
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Not a shadow of a doubt.

The offer applies to you as well. As show us since I became a loving
slave and listened to whatever you people had to say and then I suddenly
became a troll? Please tell me in your wildest dreams how that could be
true Oleg Lego? Because as smart as I think I am, I just can't piece
that one together. But if you can, please share it with us. And if you
somehow can piece that one together, can I have the rights to the movie?
As a great movie is having nobody guessing what happens at the end of
it. And for once, you got me. As I have no idea how you got there.

Signature

Bill
DX 2002 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 04/2007 10.5
A1c 06/2007 7.4
A1c 08/2007 6.8
A1c 02/2008 6.3

Julie Bove - 12 Mar 2008 04:29 GMT
>>>>>> Bill, what meds do you take to address your insulin resistance? it
>>>>>> will help your insulin do it's job much better
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> movie is having nobody guessing what happens at the end of it. And for
> once, you got me. As I have no idea how you got there.

Whatever you said there made no sense whatever.
BillW50 - 12 Mar 2008 04:41 GMT
>>>>>>> Bill, what meds do you take to address your insulin resistance?
>>>>>>> it will help your insulin do it's job much better
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> Whatever you said there made no sense whatever.

Oh thank goodness! I thought it was just me it didn't make any sense. I
am so glad you agree. As I feel so much better now. ;-)

Signature

Bill
DX 2002 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 04/2007 10.5
A1c 06/2007 7.4
A1c 08/2007 6.8
A1c 02/2008 6.3

BillW50 - 12 Mar 2008 02:48 GMT
>>> Bill, what meds do you take to address your insulin resistance? it
>>> will help your insulin do it's job much better
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Then you are pushing sh.t up hill. What is your weight?

Back in 2002, about 250 lbs and 6'1". I am now in the 225 lbs range now.
Although two years ago I was 195 lbs without treatment. And I have to
tell you that losing weight while taking insulin is a really hard.
Worse, the longer I am on it the harder it gets.

> If you only
> took Metformin for a short while then you were probably just going
> thru the initial teething problems of gaining control and learning
> how to avoid hypos. If you had persevered and got some good advice
> you may have been able to continue the Metformin. How low were your
> lows?

Yea my ex was on insulin 20 years before this so I knew what was good
and what was bad. She never seemed to go through lows, so I was
completely stupid in that regard. But she ate a lot, so what can I say?
And yes, I was stupid when it came towards lows and regardless what
anybody says, it can be very dangerous while driving. Even today I still
claim this as true.

Yes if I had some good advice, I may have got through it and managed it.
But that didn't happen and it doesn't take a lot of smarts to figure out
between feeling fine without medication and suddenly feeling like crap
while driving a 70,000 lbs vehicle on metformin isn't a good thing.

And while I have every BG reading since 4/2007, I only have a few weeks
of BG readings from 2002. And before I tell you, I have to tell you
something first which I truly believe is the absolute truth. I learned
this from my diabetes classes and it fits perfectly with my own
experience. It doesn't matter what your BG reading is in regards to what
is called normal. Meaning if it is low for you, then you can suffer from
hypoglycemic symptoms. And if it happens and your BG is say 200mg/dL,
you should have carbs to get it up some.

Okay having said that and taking just metformin back in 2002 and I
wasn't used to BG control and I wasn't very good at it at all. My
records showed that I was bouncing in the 100's to the 200's all of the
time. Bad I know. And on October 11, 2002 I hit 106 and that was really
low for me. Then on October 30, 2002 my records shows I hit 68mg.dL. And
my records stop. I am assuming that I gave up treatment somewhere after
this time. Nowadays 68 isn't a big deal and I have hit in the 30's about
6 times in the last year. Sadly I don't feel lows anymore, I just
suddenly collapse. As one second I feel fine and the next I have zero
energy.

> Going without any treatment for years probably hastened your diabetic
> progression. If you were to go back on metformin and start reducing
> your insulin , watching your carbs etc, you may not need to continue
> with insulin. You sound like you just need some good advice. It is a
> pity you are resistant to the kind of advice given in here. What is
> your daily meal plan?

Personally I believe I can control my BG without any medications at all.
And I am not picky of what I eat, nor how little I have to eat. As I
don't get hungry or full. Well the truth is that I can and have gone for
2 or 3 days before ever feeling the need to eat something. I only eat
daily because this is what I am told I am supposed too. And yes the
feeling of needing to eat is almost nonexistent to me since then. Better
I am told that eating a little bit throughout the day is even better. So
I try to eat more than 3 times a day and even sometimes just a tiny bit
every hour. It does seem to keep the BG readings pretty evenly for the
most part and I believe it maybe a good plan.

While I was in the hospital back in 4/2007, I swear they gave me a pound
of food three times a day. They told me I had to eat everything. I
automatically assumed that this was to adjust my insulin. Sadly I don't
think this was the reason at all. As my insulin was in the 150 range
anyway most of the time and the month after. So I don't know what their
real reason was and eating that much was very hard for me.

As for my meal plan? Well I try to eat like Alan does. But that is a lot
of food to me and it makes me feel ill. As much as I try, I can keep it
up for a week tops and that is it. As I get so discussed with food that
I don't want anything to do with it for a few days. I have GERD since
'92 and I used to eat a lot. And I still could until about 2002. But
since then, I just get really sick. And I feel so much better eating
very little. And the times I don't get sick, I get really sleepy from
eating more than say ½ lb of food in a 12 hour period.

There is something called in simple terms that some diabetics get is
called a lazy stomach. As diabetics can start to suffer from nerve
damage. For most of us, it starts at our feet. Yes me too. But a few
also suffer from nerve damage in the stomach. What I understand is that
the nerves in our stomach can't tell the brain if it has food or not.
And since the brain doesn't get the signal, it fails to start the
stomach into movements to start the digestive process. And what happens
is when you eat, it sits there for hours in the stomach and fails to be
digested like normal people. Thus instead of a BG increase after one or
two hours after a meal, it can last 4 or more hours. I have personally
seen this in my own BG readings. I don't know if for sure this is my
problem, but it fits very closely.

Pity that I resist the kind of advice given here? I keep trying to be
honest with you. The hardest part is eating like the rest of you do. As
to me, eating like that makes me really sick. And if you got sick from
eating you would stop too. I can handle liquids just fine, it is just
solid food that I have a problem with. Well anything more than 1 lb a
day anyway.

So how can I follow your advice? I just can't stomach all of that food.
And being in the 80 to 120mg/dL range I feel okay without exercising for
the most part. But If I start doing anything my energy drops so fast.
And my BG doesn't always show it. As I can be out of energy just because
I exercised and my BG reads 110. It isn't this way at all in the 150 to
180 range. As I never seen to run out of energy.

So I do listen despite what I think. And I can spend most days in the 80
to 120 range. And I do and try to eat like the rest of you. But it
doesn't take long and I get sick and feeling really weak. So I have to
resort to eating very little. And I do most of the time keep my BG in
the 80 to 120 range. But my goodness, sometimes I just need more energy
and going back to the 150 to the 180 range feels so good and I have tons
more energy.

I don't know if you understand, since not many feels the same way as I
do. And I eat so little, I amaze myself why I don't lose any weight. I'm
ok with it, as I am not gaining or losing. The only thing I can explain
it is my body is very efficient compared to most. So what do you think?

Signature

Bill
DX 2002 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 04/2007 10.5
A1c 06/2007 7.4
A1c 08/2007 6.8
A1c 02/2008 6.3

Tiger_Lily - 12 Mar 2008 19:18 GMT
>> Bill, what meds do you take to address your insulin resistance? it
>> will help your insulin do it's job much better
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> are on insulin, you can never go off of it. Strangely some have, but it
> doesn't matter to them.

Metformin doesn't CAUSE lows, the insulin does.  If you take metformin
and either actos or avandia, your total insulin dose drops.  Have you
talked to your Dr about trying Byetta? it's not illegal to drive truck
while using byetta.

>> also, i see NO WHERE that Alan has attacked you or treated you like a
>> stupid idiot
>
> People probably can't see it from one post. But I read all of them and
> it is very clear to me. And I invite you to do the same.

Sorry, i see Alan as giving the advice he would give to anyone who came
here........... it might not be what you want to hear.....

>> get an anger management course, please!
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> or comprehended it. And their complacency is the biggest problem why
> they can't see it.

wow Bill....... you have to get used to 'normal' bg levels again..... it
takes a bit of time staying at 'normal' levels for that to 'feel normal'

> You seem to place a lot of trust in the medical profession. So much that
> you seem to trust your life with them. Although I have found that
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> they have to prove they know what they are talking about before I can
> trust them. Even then, you still have to be careful!

huh???? where does this come from?  i'm a responsible patient, and i
research ANY med that i'm given before i take it......... Dr's make
mistakes, and *I* know that from experience.  And i can't set the clock
on the bloody VCR........could on the last one, but not this new one! LOL

> For example, I just stumbled across this site today and I know little
> about it. But it does list more misdeeds by the medical community on one
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/compliance/links/news.html

maybe we should look up reports on mistakes made by 18 wheelers, and
accountants, and tax auditors, you name the profession..... i'm sure
there would be a LONG list of mistakes........ like the $325,000 in
errors that my boss made on the financial statements when i was on
maternity leave.......

> It wouldn't surprise me at all if this URL gets removed from the
> Internet. Yes I have seen this before too.

don't make trouble where none exists........ that's why we think you are
paranoid

kate
Cheri - 11 Mar 2008 20:46 GMT
BillW50 wrote in message
<47d6d345$0$1340$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com>...

>Hi Cheri! I have very carefully eaten the same foods, exercised the
>same, and I have taken the same amount of insulin. I do this for my own
>personal research. As I have learned that studies and doctors don't
>always tell you the truth. And what I have found is about 70% of the
>time, my BG can be closely predicted. Although about 30% of the time, it
>cannot be.

Hi Bill, I understand that people are different, and I understand that
you might not want to follow advice that doesn't work for you, but
that's a lot different than the advice being *harmful* and I saw
nothing in Alans' post that would be harmful to you or others.

Cheri
BillW50 - 11 Mar 2008 22:06 GMT
> BillW50 wrote in message
> <47d6d345$0$1340$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Cheri

Hmmm... you didn't see Alan in so many words call me an idiot because I
can't follow Diabetes 101 either? Like I just told Kate, I guess you
have to read more of Alan's posts to me to see it. :-(

Signature

Bill
DX 2002 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 04/2007 10.5
A1c 06/2007 7.4
A1c 08/2007 6.8
A1c 02/2008 6.3

Ozgirl - 11 Mar 2008 23:02 GMT
>> OK, I still don't see what there is in Alans' post that would be
>> harmful? Perhaps you could point out exactly what is harmful to you or
[quoted text clipped - 69 lines]
> who has. Or treat us as stupid idiots and that we can't follow Diabetes
> 101. :-(

Bill, Alan has neither attacked you or treated you as an idiot. It is just
common sense when one is highly insulin resistant to reduce the intake of
carbs. Insulin works far better when you don;t have to overcome insulin
resistance first before you can even think about covering the carbs
ingested. What are you doing for insulin resistance? The  more carbs you eat
the more insulin you require and the harder it is to control because you are
fighting insulin resistance. It is not as simple as carbs in, shoot insulin
to cover it. Attack the insulin resistance and reduce the carbs and you will
have better luck with control and less unusual results.
BillW50 - 12 Mar 2008 04:09 GMT
>>> OK, I still don't see what there is in Alans' post that would be
>>> harmful? Perhaps you could point out exactly what is harmful to you
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>
> Bill, Alan has neither attacked you or treated you as an idiot.

Hmm... that makes three against one (me) so far. Like I told the other
two, I think you need to read the rest of Alan's posts to me. As he
doesn't come out and say it, but in so many words it sure looks that way
to me.

> It is
> just common sense when one is highly insulin resistant to reduce the
> intake of carbs. Insulin works far better when you don;t have to
> overcome insulin resistance first before you can even think about
> covering the carbs ingested.

I take less than 40 units of insulin a day. How much insulin resistance
can I be? My father is the same size as I am and he takes 6 times more
insulin than I do. Once I accidentally gave myself double for my evening
shot (I forgot that I did earlier) and I had to keep eating carbs for
the next 12 hours just to keep me at 80mg/dL. So I should have gone to
the hospital, I know, I know. I promise next time I will.

> What are you doing for insulin
> resistance? The  more carbs you eat the more insulin you require and
> the harder it is to control because you are fighting insulin
> resistance.

I hear ya. But I take so little insulin. Being that is true, I don't buy
the idea that I am very insulin resistance. And I know two others on
insulin who takes 6 times more than I do. If I accidentally take as much
as they do, I really believe I would be in a coma. And I have
experimented some and I believe somewhere about half of the insulin I
take now would be better for me. That way I can eat less.

> It is not as simple as carbs in, shoot insulin to cover
> it. Attack the insulin resistance and reduce the carbs and you will
> have better luck with control and less unusual results.

Now wait a minute! I take far less insulin than most people. And when I
had taken metformin, I was only taking 500mg a day. Knowing what I know
about myself now, that makes 1 unit of insulin per 10mg of metformin
being about the same. Alan for example is taking 1500mg of metformin.
That would be like 150 units of insulin per day to me. Which would
probably put me in a coma.

I have no doubt that I am more insulin resistant than most normal
people. But I just don't take enough medications as most diabetes. And
besides that, I hate eating! And when I do eat, I dislike most things
with carbs. And eating just 30 carbs a day is a lot of food to me. So
trying to tell me I have to reduce my carbs with low insulin injections
isn't sitting too well with me right now. So please elaborate!

Signature

Bill
DX 2002 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 04/2007 10.5
A1c 06/2007 7.4
A1c 08/2007 6.8
A1c 02/2008 6.3

BillW50 - 11 Mar 2008 16:59 GMT
>>>> I wouldn't doubt this for a second! Lots of things are absorbed
>>>> though the skin. Although some people like our own Alan and most
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> I won't be answering you further, except to clarify further
> malicious misquotes.

See file attachment.

Signature

Bill
DX 2002 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 04/2007 10.5
A1c 06/2007 7.4
A1c 08/2007 6.8
A1c 02/2008 6.3

Ozgirl - 12 Mar 2008 06:04 GMT
>>>>> I wouldn't doubt this for a second! Lots of things are absorbed
>>>>> though the skin. Although some people like our own Alan and most
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> See file attachment.

That absolutely doesn't relate at all to what you are claiming he said. He
did not say anything remotely like controlling your carbs will control your
bg or that that controlling bg was easy! It is about balancing your carbs
and insulin and with a type 2 and the associated insulin resistance it is
far easier to do that when carbs are lower.
BillW50 - 12 Mar 2008 17:22 GMT
>>>>>> I wouldn't doubt this for a second! Lots of things are absorbed
>>>>>> though the skin. Although some people like our own Alan and most
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> associated insulin resistance it is far easier to do that when carbs
> are lower.

Now you are doing what Alan was doing. No! No! No! That is at least in
my case, only 70% of BG control. There is another 30% that can and does
play a big factor in your BG readings. Such other things like:

1) Stuff being absorbed into your skin
2) Infections
3) Some medications
4) Hormone changes
5) Stress
6) Illness

And the list goes on and on. You can't be narrow minded about this and
claim if you watch your eating, exercise, and medications, this is all
you need to know for good BG control. No way! It is far more complicated
than that. At least it is this way for some of us.

For example, my BG will get stuck between 150 to the 180 range. And I
have ruled out that it has nothing to do with eating, exercising, or
medication. It can last anywhere from 4 hours to about 3 days. And
eating less to nothing, exercising more, and adding more insulin has
very little effect on it at all. Alan and now apparently you are saying
this is nonsense. But it is very real and I have it all documented over
and over again.

Signature

Bill
DX 2002 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 04/2007 10.5
A1c 06/2007 7.4
A1c 08/2007 6.8
A1c 02/2008 6.3

Priscilla H. Ballou - 13 Mar 2008 19:30 GMT
> > That absolutely doesn't relate at all to what you are claiming he
> > said. He did not say anything remotely like controlling your carbs
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> you need to know for good BG control. No way! It is far more complicated
> than that. At least it is this way for some of us.

Show me in the top paragraph where she said "this is all you need to
know."  She said that balancing is easier when carbs are lower.

Of course we all know that there are other factors that play.  No-one
has said there aren't.

You need to be aware that it is clear to the observer that you are not
taking in the content of what is being written.  You need to stop and
read what has been written, not what you expect to read.

Priscilla, T2
Robert Miles - 13 Mar 2008 20:50 GMT
>>>>> I wouldn't doubt this for a second! Lots of things are absorbed
>>>>> though the skin. Although some people like our own Alan and most
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> See file attachment.

The attachment was not compatible with my copy of OeyEnc,
so I couldn't see it.
Chris Malcolm - 14 Mar 2008 04:15 GMT
>>>>>> I wouldn't doubt this for a second! Lots of things are absorbed
>>>>>> though the skin. Although some people like our own Alan and most
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>>
>> See file attachment.

> The attachment was not compatible with my copy of OeyEnc,
> so I couldn't see it.

Attachments are not legal in newsgroups. Many newsgroup servers will
strip them off, and some will dump the whole message as likely to be
spam.

Signature

Chris Malcolm        cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk              DoD #205
IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Robert Miles - 14 Mar 2008 16:02 GMT
>>>>>>> I wouldn't doubt this for a second! Lots of things are absorbed
>>>>>>> though the skin. Although some people like our own Alan and most
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> strip them off, and some will dump the whole message as likely to be
> spam.

Exception:  They're legal in most of the newsgroups with ".binaries." in
their name.
Trinkwasser - 14 Mar 2008 19:33 GMT
>> Attachments are not legal in newsgroups. Many newsgroup servers will
>> strip them off, and some will dump the whole message as likely to be
>> spam.

>Exception:  They're legal in most of the newsgroups with ".binaries." in
>their name.

alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.diabetes, now there's a thought

(they'd mostly be very small attachments)
Andy - 14 Mar 2008 23:26 GMT
Trinkwasser said...

>>> Attachments are not legal in newsgroups. Many newsgroup servers will
>>> strip them off, and some will dump the whole message as likely to be
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> (they'd mostly be very small attachments)

LOL!

But in actuality, I'd bet there's some degree of sexuality in the design of
BG monitors. The Contour BG monitor is "almost" heart-shaped and slender
and you can insert your stick into a slot in the bottom whenever you
like...

[Note to self] Get new newsgroups.

:)

Andy
Signature

T2
HBP
Gout

:)
Nicky - 15 Mar 2008 13:07 GMT
>Trinkwasser said...
>> alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.diabetes, now there's a thought
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>[Note to self] Get new newsgroups.

OY! Can you guys please put coffee-on-screen warnings up next time :D

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
Tiger_Lily - 14 Jan 2008 02:18 GMT
> Tiger_Lily said...
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> Andy.

interesting, Andy

because my GP talked me INTO Dove because it's a moisturizing soap, so
you don't suffer from the dry skin that diabetics get

and i don't find it at all oily

Lever 2000 is a detergent i believe, but if that's your choice, just go
for the unscented variety of it

i found that hand cream definitely gives me an incorrect reading if not
an ERR message on my meter

good luck

kate
Andy <q> - 14 Jan 2008 10:28 GMT
Tiger_Lily said...

>> Tiger_Lily said...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>
> kate

kate,

I'm not saying Dove is a bad soap for showering.

For washing your paws for testing, I was just debating dish soap vs. ivory.

Best

Andy

Signature

All Posts Blocked From: @yahoo|@gmail|@hotmail|@webtv|@aol

Tiger_Lily - 15 Jan 2008 03:19 GMT
> Tiger_Lily said...
>
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
>
> Andy

Sunlight laundry soap bar makes for a very nice hand cleaner, that
doesn't dry out your hands either, and has very little scent to it

however, i use Dove more than the Sunlight

kate
Helen Back - 14 Jan 2008 11:23 GMT
<q> wrote in message news:Xns9A24903B59B2cotd@216.196.97.136...
> Tiger_Lily said...
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> Andy.

I'm a qualified aromatherapist (although my profession is on the back burner
at the moment due to my other new job, managing a cinema and theatre!) and
although I was taught diabetes is a potential contra-indication, I advocate
the use of essential oils and massage for diabetics.  The reason being that
massage is a perfect way of assisting people to relax.  As we all know,
stress and pain can cause our bg numbers to rise.  Oils are naturally
anti-bacterial and certain oils, like the fantastic lavender, assist in the
healing of damaged skin, leaving hardly any scarring.

The only negative aspect of wishing to use essential oils through massage on
diabetics is that you should consult with your doctor first (especially when
the diabetes is combined with heart conditions) and I KNOW that a lot of
doctors do not advocate holistic therapy and will not work alongside such
practitioners.

It's always good to rinse your hands well after using perfumed soap because
I remember almost fainting at how high a reading I took was, until someone
here reminded me that *fruity* soap can leave a *sugary* residue.

Oh, and dont eat it - you'll be burping bubbles for a month - bad, bad,
bad!! LOL
W. Baker - 13 Jan 2008 19:22 GMT
: > Soap. Does it mattter?
: >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
: >
: i find that Ivory leaves a film on the skin

: Dove doesn't do this to me, and i buy the unscented variety

: kate

In general, I avoild all things marked "antibacterial" like dishwshig
liquid, kitchen and houshold cleaners adn soaps.  I so this because I have
been told by my biologist son that they contribute to the growth of
antibiotic resistant bacteria.  I do use deodorant soap, but not if is
says, "antibiotic"  I we all do our part it might have some effect.  Plain
soap and water works just fine for cleanign hands for a test using your
own equipment adn regular dish soap works fine for the dishes.  

Sorry to sound like a prig, but  do worry about th heavy use of
antibiotics where they are not needed.

Wendy
Andy <q> - 13 Jan 2008 19:36 GMT
W. Baker said...

> Sorry to sound like a prig, but  do worry about th heavy use of
> antibiotics where they are not needed.

Wendy,

I agree. I've heard they lead to super-resistant bacteria according to the  
talking heads on TV.

Best,

Andy

Signature

All Posts Blocked From: @yahoo|@gmail|@hotmail|@webtv|@aol

guys@consolidated.net - 13 Jan 2008 20:48 GMT
>W. Baker said...
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Andy

I have just endured a severe parasite infection that the docs failed
on miserqbly.   There is no simple answer to the use of antibiotics or
any cleanng item.

It is my opinioin that the picking of a proper doc that places
patients above money is so important.

I had a misersble situation caused by production line
medicine.  These problems are easily fixed early in the game.

Later they are a much more difficult item to deal with.

My arms degenerated to a mess of sores and then I was give
cortisone drugs to hide the problem, It did not cure it.

With world travel and a wide range of food sources the parasirte
problem is increasing rapidly.

It seems the days of a quick prescription for antibiotics are showing
it's ugly results.

Soap and wateris not the answer.  Creams were not productibe for me.

It requires the tslent of a QUALIFIED professional physician.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 13 Jan 2008 21:38 GMT
convicted friend Guy (g...@consolidated.net) wrote:
> >W. Baker said...
> >
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> It is my opinioin that the picking of a proper doc that places
> patients above money is so important.

Doctors that place others above money are those that place others
above themselves...

... these would be those who have stopped sinning though they remain
sinners:

"Love your neighbors as you love yourself." -- LORD Jesus Christ

Amen.

May you come to know and love the truth:

http://TruthRUS.org/KnowingGOD

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
guys@consolidated.net - 13 Jan 2008 23:31 GMT
>convicted friend Guy (g...@consolidated.net) wrote:
>> >W. Baker said...
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
>Andrew <><

Andrew,

The theory is thay we exist because we eliminated all coimpetition
asnd enslaved all competitors    All modern religions have tried to
negate this concept and we have at least a ,marginal
civilization.

I strongly do not accept a free ride idea.   True religion does not
teach this.  It is an easy concept to sell but does not make sense.
It so easy to sell to the greedy. True religion teaches us to work in
a collectrive and fair society for the benefit of all.

Selfish behavior is comtrary to all conepts of civilization.---- And
any religion with any merit reects it..

Excess money usually means grabbing the assets  that
others worked to acquire.  A jungle concept.

We do have those that are wealthy and use their control of
assets for some good purposes.  That is necesary because
a lot of people will spend anything they can get before it get dark.

Your bible is very clear on the issues.  Rewards for performance.
Hell for those that do not perform or those coverting  the assets of
thoise thast worked for them.

NO free ride for some nominal nonsense.

                                   Guy
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 14 Jan 2008 10:39 GMT
convicted friend Guy (g...@consolidated.net) wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >convicted friend Guy (g...@consolidated.net) wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
>
> Your bible is very clear on the issues.  Rewards for performance.

Actually, GOD simply wants us to be right by simply walking with HIM:

http://TruthRUS.org/BeRight

> Hell for those that do not perform or those coverting  the assets of
> thoise thast worked for them.

Actually, hell is for those who do not either know or love the truth,
Who is LORD Jesus Christ:

http://TruthRUS.org/Jesus

> NO free ride for some nominal nonsense.

GOD's grace is freely given to those who wisely choose to place their
faith in LORD Jesus Christ:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
dumb_fishie99@yahoo.com - 14 Jan 2008 03:09 GMT
I thought all soap was anti-bacterial.
My friend the poet lawyer-ate even wrote a poem about it.
So it must be true.
Julie Bove - 14 Jan 2008 03:19 GMT
>I thought all soap was anti-bacterial.
> My friend the poet lawyer-ate even wrote a poem about it.
> So it must be true.

Nope/
Frank t2 - 20 Jan 2008 02:18 GMT
<dumb_fishie99@yahoo.com> a écrit ...
>I thought all soap was anti-bacterial.
> My friend the poet lawyer-ate even wrote a poem about it.
> So it must be true.

Do you have an adult nearby, dear ?  You need one.
Chris Malcolm - 15 Jan 2008 09:25 GMT
> : > Soap. Does it mattter?
> : >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> : >
> : i find that Ivory leaves a film on the skin

> : Dove doesn't do this to me, and i buy the unscented variety

> : kate

> In general, I avoild all things marked "antibacterial" like dishwshig
> liquid, kitchen and houshold cleaners adn soaps.  I so this because I have
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> soap and water works just fine for cleanign hands for a test using your
> own equipment adn regular dish soap works fine for the dishes.  

> Sorry to sound like a prig, but  do worry about th heavy use of
> antibiotics where they are not needed.

Me too. I also try to avoid taking them. Whenever a doc wants to
prescribe me an antibiotic I ask what would happen if I didn't take
it. If the answer is simply that it might take me a bit longer to
recover then I'll refuse it. Thirty years ago that often infuriated
the prescribing docs. Today they often say "very sensible!"

When the day comes that I get a life threatening infection I want my
immune system to be strong and my own internal bacteria to be unused
to antibiotics.

Weapons which weaken with use should only be used when really needed.

Signature

Chris Malcolm        cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk              DoD #205
IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 13 Jan 2008 19:09 GMT
> Soap. Does it mattter?
>
> I shower with ivory soap but I wash my hands in the kitchen sink using the
> palmolive antibacterial liquid dish sink soap for taking readings. Does it
> matter?

Antibacterial soap tends to select for multi-drug resistant bacteria
so that if you do acquire a slow-healing diabetic ulcer, it is more
likely to be one that has a germ that is resistant to oral antibiotics
so that you end up being more likely to be hospitalized.

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Julie Bove - 13 Jan 2008 21:58 GMT
<q> wrote in message news:Xns9A248809A1663cotd@216.196.97.136...
> Soap. Does it mattter?
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> an
> ivory soap dish by the kitchen sink? ;)

Ivory soap is very harsh and in my opinion not best for anyone.  My husband
insists on using it though and he seems to have no problems with it.  I also
don't think anibacterial soap is good for anyone either.  I don't use any
specific brands of soap.  I usually buy whatever is cheapest and I'm not
allergic to.
Allen - 15 Jan 2008 13:04 GMT
To: Julie Bove
 Re: Re: Soap. Does it mattter?
 By: Julie Bove to alt.support.diabetes on Sun Jan 13 2008 09:58 pm

> Ivory soap is very harsh and in my opinion not best for anyone.  My husband
> insists on using it though and he seems to have no problems with it.  I also
> don't think anibacterial soap is good for anyone either.  I don't use any
> specific brands of soap.  I usually buy whatever is cheapest and I'm not
> allergic to.

I like to buy natural plant-based non bacterial soaps.

Allen

--- Synchronet 3.15a-Win32 NewsLink 1.85
Derby City BBS - telnet://derbycitybbs.com
Loretta Eisenberg - 14 Jan 2008 00:39 GMT
Andy, I dont think the soap matters.  I use the palmolive in the kitchen
before I test,  In the shower I use a body wash.  Ivory was always too
drying for me.  No difference in the numbers

Loretta
DarkSentinel - 15 Jan 2008 12:27 GMT
<q> wrote in message news:Xns9A248809A1663cotd@216.196.97.136...
> Soap. Does it mattter?
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> an
> ivory soap dish by the kitchen sink? ;)

The doc that DX'd me recommended Dial Anti-Bacterial. Been using that pretty
much since then. Had to run out and get some when I got here to NV, as Lynn
and her daughter only had that girly soap. My skin is NOT sposed to be silky
smooth...:/

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T2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet
http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel
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