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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / December 2007Alcohol *Lowers* FBG??????
I have noticed something going on that I cannot explain. I work out a lot, eat very carefully, blah, blah blah. FBGs run between 115-125 or so. BUT, if I have several drinks the night before, my FBGs are noticably *lower*. 100-110 is common. I only drink straight whiskey, fine wine, and (very rarely) light beer, and rarely in excess. A "big" night for me is 5 drinks in 4 hours, and that's not common. So ... can one of the ASD gentle geniuses explain what in the heck is going on here (preferrably in a way that does not require me to balance chemical equations). Thanks! > I have noticed something going on that I cannot explain. I work out a > lot, eat very carefully, blah, blah [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks! easy......... the liver is busy processing the alcohols when the liver is doing that, it can't dump glycogen into your system that turns into some chemical reactions that end up with your bg going up because of the glucose provided by the 'liver dump' as we often call it that's the short story :-) kate On Dec 25, 8:45 pm, antmee...@yahoo.com wrote: > I have noticed something going on that I cannot explain. I work out a > lot, eat very carefully, blah, blah [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks! I've noticed the same thing with no later rise as suggested in TL's response. After the second time or so I carefully checked my bg for several hours afterwards. Of course, you have to counter it against all the reasons to drink responsibly, but moderation in life always wins out. ;) Now, I agree with your choice of potables, with the exception of the beer (even light beer spikes me.) But my history seems to suggest that a few drinks won't hurt, and might actually help. Sean > I have noticed something going on that I cannot explain. I work out a > lot, eat very carefully, blah, blah [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > going on here (preferrably > in a way that does not require me to balance chemical equations). I can only relate my own experience. Vodka, whisky, whiskey and dry wines lower my BG. Sweet wines and beer raise it. YMMV  SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ > antmee...@yahoo.com wrote: > > I have noticed something going on that I cannot explain. I work out a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I can only relate my own experience. Vodka, whisky, whiskey and dry wines > lower my BG. Sweet wines and beer raise it. YMMV I find Guinness to be fairly neutral. And drinking to *excess* can be a flipping disaster, causing anything that drives you low to drive you much, much lower, due to the reduction of any available glucagon response to low blood sugar. I had some problems in college that way, when I drank the first time after a long hiatus while my girlfriend was out of town, and had seizures. The doctor whom I saw after that had *no idea* what the issue was, and when I find out about this issue, I contacted her and made sure she knew about it for the other diabetics she was treating fresh out of medical school. >I have noticed something going on that I cannot explain. I work out a > lot, eat very carefully, blah, blah [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks! Yes. Alcohol lowers BG. But doesn't alcohol raise triglycerides? A cholesterol problem in a way? Andy > But doesn't alcohol raise triglycerides? A cholesterol problem in a way? > > Andy > NO in fact NO! NO NO! it raises HDL and lowers LDL in moderation it is very very good for you. 2 drinks a day 4 days a week drop your heart risk by 70%, a HUGE positive effect. It does increase your breast cancer risk by am as yet unquantified risk, so women should be a little more careful > > But doesn't alcohol raise triglycerides? A cholesterol problem in a way? > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > It does increase your breast cancer risk by am as yet unquantified risk, > so women should be a little more careful And there are NO carbs in martinis??!! ;) SignatureAndy H (Type 2 in Greater Vancouver, Canada) >> > But doesn't alcohol raise triglycerides? A cholesterol problem in a way? >> > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> >And there are NO carbs in martinis??!! ;) I can't find Vermouth in my charts, but there are certainly no carbs in Gin. SignatureLarry, T2, Saskatchewan, Canada. DX 24 Aug 07. D&E Metformin 2000mg, Ramipril, Simvastatin Dx A1c 8.1 : Latest 5.1 > > > [] > > 2 drinks a day 4 days a week drop your heart risk by 70%, a HUGE [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > And there are NO carbs in martinis??!! ;) Not even in the olive! SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >> > > [] >> > 2 drinks a day 4 days a week drop your heart risk by 70%, a HUGE [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Not even in the olive! not even in a chocolate or pomegranate martini? SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . Màck©® wrote in message ... >>> > > [] >>> > 2 drinks a day 4 days a week drop your heart risk by 70%, a HUGE [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >not even in a chocolate or pomegranate martini? Plus...the olive does have a carb, but if you're using it as your entire meal, it shouldn't hurt. ;-) Cheri > On 27 Dec 2007 07:36:08 GMT, Nick Cramer <n_cramerSPAM@pacbell.net> > >> > > [] [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > not even in a chocolate or pomegranate martini? A mixed drink with chocolate or pomegranate may be a cocktail, but it is NOT a Martini! SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >> But doesn't alcohol raise triglycerides? A cholesterol problem in a way? >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >It does increase your breast cancer risk by am as yet unquantified risk, >so women should be a little more careful I've been having problems with wine drinking increasing my blood pressure, but maybe it's interfereing with my thyroid meds. I had to stop using it to lower my DP, so now I'm hoping the time released ALA at night will do the trick. It;s weird, now I can even put salt on my meat, and my blood pressure is fine, but the wine will cause a problem. >> But doesn't alcohol raise triglycerides? A cholesterol problem in a way? >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >It does increase your breast cancer risk by am as yet unquantified risk, >so women should be a little more careful men get breast cancer too. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . > >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > yea, and people get hiot by lightning too. If you increase the male risk of breast cancer by 1000% it is still a small fraction of the female risk On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:45:33 -0800, antmeeter wrote: > I have noticed something going on that I cannot explain. I work out a > lot, eat very carefully, blah, blah [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks! FWIW - There are anecdotal reports of relatively healthy non-diabetic alocoholics awakening (or rather not awakening) in a coma because of low BG. > On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:45:33 -0800, antmeeter wrote: > > I have noticed something going on that I cannot explain. I work out a [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > alocoholics awakening (or rather not awakening) in a coma because of low > BG. Do you have a pointer to this? Because in a normal human, they'd stop making insulin, or make only very little, I think. I can easily believe them awakening somewhat hypoglycemic from an inability to keep food down, and failing to wake up soon enough to get some foold to replenish the body's reserves of glycogen and glucose, especially in a serious alcoholic. >> On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:45:33 -0800, antmeeter wrote: >> > I have noticed something going on that I cannot explain. I work out a [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > replenish the body's reserves of glycogen and glucose, especially in a > serious alcoholic. Not specifically. I believe Dr. Bernstein makes reference to the point in his "Diabetes Solution". | >> On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:45:33 -0800, antmeeter wrote: | >> > I have noticed something going on that I cannot explain. I work out a | >> > lot, eat very carefully, blah, blah | >> > blah. FBGs run between 115-125 or so. BUT, if I have several drinks [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] | Not specifically. I believe Dr. Bernstein makes reference to the point in | his "Diabetes Solution". LOL well then it MUST be true.. > | >> On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:45:33 -0800, antmeeter wrote: > | >> > I have noticed something going on that I cannot explain. I work out [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > LOL well then it MUST be true.. Yes - he is a very informative and authoritative resource - having both an engineering and medical background - he gives very good information. FYI - "If alcohol is taken without food, it can cause low blood glucose by increasing the activity of insulin without food to compensate for it. Some alcoholics, even without diabetes, go to bed with several drinks in their systems and are unconscious the next morning because of very low blood glucose. They can have brain damage unless their bodies are able to manufacture enough glucose to wake them up." - Alan L. Rubin M.D. - "Diabetes for Dummies" "Ethyl alcohol has no direct effect on blood sugar because the body does not convert it into glucose. Ethyl alcohol, however, can indirectly lower the blood sugars of some diabetics if consumed at the time of a meal. It does this by inhibiting the liver and thereby gluconeogenesis so that it can't convert all the protein of the meal into glucose." - Richard K. Bernstein, M.D. - "Diabetes Solution" > >> | [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > engineering and medical background - he gives very good information. > well NO he is a good self-promoting author he is NOT a certified endo in fact he flunked out of his internal medicine program BUT he talks a good game, an d knows a lot - according to him he lacks even the most basic qualifications to treat diabetes, but he DOES have an agent, and a publicist, and an editor and... > FYI - "If alcohol is taken without food, it can cause low blood glucose by > increasing the activity of insulin without food to compensate for it. Some [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > DO NOT QUOTE FAD AUTHORS AS IF THEY WERE EXPERTS!! even stopped clock are right twice a day, so just because it is Bernstein does not PROVE it is wrong, but without a REAL primary source, you are not adding to any discussion. Check Medline - as much of Bernstein 's drivel - I don't think you will find any basis - but maybe you will >> LOL well then it MUST be true.. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >manufacture enough glucose to wake them up." - Alan L. Rubin M.D. - >"Diabetes for Dummies" Chronic alcoholics, not joe scmoe average guy on the street or an alcoholic early in their disease. >"Ethyl alcohol has no direct effect on blood sugar because the body does >not convert it into glucose. Ethyl alcohol, however, can indirectly lower >the blood sugars of some diabetics if consumed at the time of a meal. It >does this by inhibiting the liver and thereby gluconeogenesis so that it >can't convert all the protein of the meal into glucose." - Richard K. >Bernstein, M.D. - "Diabetes Solution" This was a known fact long before bernstein copied it from existing resources. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . >On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:45:33 -0800, antmeeter wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >alocoholics awakening (or rather not awakening) in a coma because of low >BG. discussing a fasting bg range from 100 to 125 in the original post to jumping to coma caused by hypoglycemia in non-diabetics is one hell of a stretch of reality. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . >>On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:45:33 -0800, antmeeter wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > jumping to coma caused by hypoglycemia in non-diabetics is one hell of > a stretch of reality. The point being that yes, a bunch of 'dry' (i.e. non-sweet) alcohol will indeed reduce the BG of anyone. >>>On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:45:33 -0800, antmeeter wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >The point being that yes, a bunch of 'dry' (i.e. non-sweet) alcohol will >indeed reduce the BG of anyone. the point being, if we want to stick to reality, the only people who have to worry about it are either diabetic OR chronic alcoholics who abuse alcohol daily. a couple of drinks in a day 3 or 4 times a week will not cause this for anyone. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . >>>>On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:45:33 -0800, antmeeter wrote: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > a couple of drinks in a day 3 or 4 times a week will not cause this > for anyone. No, but 3,4,5 or more drinks at one time may. >No, but 3,4,5 or more drinks at one time may. not unless you skipped a meal while taking insulin. A non-diabetic non-alcoholic wouldn't have to worry about it. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . >I have noticed something going on that I cannot explain. I work out a > lot, eat very carefully, blah, blah [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks! When I first got told about dawn phenomenon and how to possibly combat it - I experimented with carbs and fats the night before, always with a small glass or two of red wine. FBG was always high until I cut the food out completely and just drank the wine. It works for me! >>I have noticed something going on that I cannot explain. I work out a >> lot, eat very carefully, blah, blah [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > small glass or two of red wine. FBG was always high until I cut the food > out completely and just drank the wine. It works for me! Yep that worked for me too, a nightly dip in the hot tub, watch for shooting stars, and a nice Martini. Jimmie >>>I have noticed something going on that I cannot explain. I work out a >>> lot, eat very carefully, blah, blah [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Jimmie Can I join you? - star-gazing is one of my fav all time time-outers! :))))) >I have noticed something going on that I cannot explain. I work out a > lot, eat very carefully, blah, blah [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks! My doc actually reccomended a night cap for my PDP. Jimmie > <antmee...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Jimmie I have experienced high bg levels several hrs after alcohol bg lowering effects. This might occur on New Years after some wine drinking and awakening at 3 a.m. This may be one down side in drinking for T2s. I suspect the gluconeogenesis kicks in as stress hormones rise during the night. Is this about right or ?? Larry >I have experienced high bg levels several hrs after alcohol bg >lowering effects. This might occur on New Years after some wine >drinking and awakening at 3 a.m. This may be one down side in drinking >for T2s. I suspect the gluconeogenesis kicks in as stress hormones >rise during the night. Is this about right or ?? Likely. Or as your bg drops into hypo territory, causing a burst of stress hormones as you claw your way out - not sure which comes first here, liver dump or adrenaline. Nasty either way... I've just washed my bedtime Shiraz down with a handful of peanuts, to prevent whatever's going on... Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >>I have experienced high bg levels several hrs after alcohol bg >>lowering effects. This might occur on New Years after some wine [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > my bedtime Shiraz down with a handful of peanuts, to prevent > whatever's going on... I'm a Cabernet Sauvignon person myself :)))) > >> I have experienced high bg levels several hrs after alcohol bg [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > What an incredibly bad reply there 9is NO evidence that alcohol "drops it into hypo" so, unless you have some reliable citation, don't drivel > >> I have experienced high bg levels several hrs after alcohol bg > >> lowering effects. This might occur on New Years after some wine [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Ted: I am sure you agree when a T2 is taking sulfs and metformin then alcohol may have an additive effect under certain conditions in lowering bg levels further. For instance when a meal is delayed and bg levels are already starting to drop. Larry : Ted: I am sure you agree when a T2 is taking sulfs and metformin then : alcohol may have an additive effect under certain conditions in : lowering bg levels further. For instance when a meal is delayed and bg : levels are already starting to drop. : Larry I would say, yes to the sulfs mixed with alcohol, but not the metformin. Wendy > >> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Larry > actually- NO alcohol doesn't cause lower bg, it retards liver dumps mow, if you drank a few triple scotches and went out shoveling snow, possibly it could be a problem, but there is not any evidence of that that i can find >> >>> I have experienced high bg levels several hrs after alcohol bg [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >there 9is NO evidence that alcohol "drops it into hypo" >so, unless you have some reliable citation, don't drivel Don't drivel yourself, Ted - without the trickle of glucose that the liver puts out, your bg will drop and keep on going until it self-corrects. If I drink 2 glasses of wine without balancing carbs, my bg will drop sufficiently to give me hypo symptoms. I'm assuming this is the same thing that happens at night, because I've woken feeling low, tested low, then started sweating, had a dump and tested high, in the space of a few minutes. I don't know if your T1 mechanism works differently - but I am sure what happens with mine. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > Anecdotes are pretty worthless. Your "perceived" occurrence could have LOTS of possible explanations. Give me REAL data from a REAL source The plural of anecdote is not data > On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 09:07:34 -0500, ted rosenberg > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > high, in the space of a few minutes. I don't know if your T1 mechanism > works differently - but I am sure what happens with mine. That sounds like a glucagon response when you wound up low. May I suggest that eating with the wine also affects things in more interesting ways, by slowing the absorption of the alcohol, and perhaps giving your liver time to deal with it *and* do a bit of glucagon/glycogen/glucose handling? And are you taking other medications that the alcohol may be interacting with? Livers are complicated and do a lot of fascinating work with all sorts of chemicals! >That sounds like a glucagon response when you wound up low. May I >suggest that eating with the wine also affects things in more [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >complicated and do a lot of fascinating work with all sorts of >chemicals! Yes, indeed, Nico - I've just been balancing my evening glass of wine with some very nice truffles, my favourite balancing act : ) The anecdote I was relating to Ted was before I learnt about such stuff, and was testing far more thoroughly than I am now. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >>>> I have experienced high bg levels several hrs after alcohol bg >>>> lowering effects. This might occur on New Years after some wine [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > high, in the space of a few minutes. I don't know if your T1 mechanism > works differently - but I am sure what happens with mine. I quit drinking years ago(saw what it did it did to 3 alcoholic uncles), other than very special occasions like toasting my brother-in-law at his wake, and things like that so I really don't have a frame of reference to comment about the lowering effects of alcohol. However, I do always keep in mind that every diabetic is different so what it would do to me say, will be different that it would you. Things like size, alcohol tolerance which is very prevalent in my family all play a part in this. SignatureT2 - Oct. '06 - Lantus, oral meds, diet Blog: http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel Undo the munge to reply by email : Likely. Or as your bg drops into hypo territory, causing a burst of : stress hormones as you claw your way out - not sure which comes first : here, liver dump or adrenaline. Nasty either way... I've just washed : my bedtime Shiraz down with a handful of peanuts, to prevent : whatever's going on... : Nicky. I thought you just used that "cleaning" your monitor:-) Happy New Year! Wendy |
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