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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / December 2007Interesting Results - Taco Bell
Shortly after being diagnosed as Type II, I began reading the nutrition guides at various fast food restaurants that we as a family frequent, including Taco Bell. I was frustrated because there was only one or two items on their menu that I could eat to keep my total carb count around 45, and at least under 60. I could eat two hard-shell tacos, for example. Not much for a big, hungry guy like me, so generally we'd go there for my wife and kids and I'd get something else somewhere else. Tonight, however, my transportation home was late, and it was running late, and we were all hungry and tired, so I told my wife I'd go ahead and experiment with their salad, even though I remembered their listed carb count as rather high (I've since checked the web site and it's 77 grams of carbs). Pre-meal, I was 83. One hour later, 108, and two hours later (now) I am 118. I wasn't sure why my levels were so low, considering the high carb content - I ate everything, including the bowl. Then it occurred to me, I remember reading somewhere, and probably in here, that fat content tends to slow your body's absorption of carbs. The bowl was a bit greasy, probably pretty high fat content. Re-checking the nutrition info again, I see it is: 38 grams! Dang. No wonder I'm not losing any weight, heh. 790 calories total. Not so bad, I guess, and I now realize that perhaps I can occaisionally eat higher-carb foods, as long as the fat content is also "relatively" high? Not that I plan on pigging out, but if this assumption is true (and I plan to test, test, test - including more tests tonight) then that greatly widens my options and makes life easier for my whole family. Anyone else have similar experiences? Am I on the right track on this? > Pre-meal, I was 83. One hour later, 108, and two hours later (now) I am > 118. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Anyone else have similar experiences? Am I on the right track on this? If it works for you, you're on the right track! If it were me, I'd test again a time or two to make sure.  Signaturehttp://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/ > Shortly after being diagnosed as Type II, I began reading the nutrition > guides at various fast food restaurants that we as a family frequent, [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Anyone else have similar experiences? Am I on the right track on this? Did the salad have a fried shell? Did the salad contain sour cream? If so, all that fat might have caused a delayed spike. It has been several years since I've eaten at Taco Bell. Too much junk in their food for me. Like soy! So I'm not all that familiar with the menu. Some of the Taco Bells would make a salad without the shell. Taco Bell Express perhaps? Or maybe they were the ones that didn't have it without the shell. At any rate, those are the ones I used to get. If I have to get one with the shell, I will either not eat any of the shell or eat just a small piece of it. I am lucky. Here we have a place called Taco Time. More expensive than Taco Bell but no junk in their food and they have several items on their menu that are low enough in carbs to be doable for me. Often I will get beans and rice for my daughter and just have a bite of each of hers. Frisbee(R) wrote: > Shortly after being diagnosed as Type II, I began reading the nutrition > guides at various fast food restaurants that we as a family frequent, [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Anyone else have similar experiences? Am I on the right track on this? Remaining afflicted with type-2 diabetes is an indication that you are on the wrong track. May reading the following help you find the right track: http://HeartMDPhD.com/EatLess http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/78c4167fdcfe8dcf? Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/a254f1e65f40b59c What happen with the Sermo deadline? SignatureMark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion ------------------------------------------------------------ There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't... > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/a254f1e65f40b59c > > What happen with the Sermo deadline? Nothing but good: they're pulling in millions in new orders just in the last week, since the FDA (with some reluctance, I hear) confirmed their remarkable claim that their herbal product will in fact "increase your ejaculate by 457%". The resulting rise in internet orders alone should ... Oh, wait...you said "Sermo"? I thought you said "Spermo". Never mind. -- cary >> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/a254f1e65f40b59c >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I thought you said "Spermo". Never mind. I'm fascinated by breadth of your knowledge on the most interesting subjects... SignatureMark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion ------------------------------------------------------------ “The larger the mob, the harder the test....when the field is nationwide...then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre-- the man who can most easily adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. “The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. “We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H. L. Mencken > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/a254f1e65f40b59c > > What happen with the Sermo deadline? What did happen? >> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/a254f1e65f40b59c >> >> What happen with the Sermo deadline? > > What did happen? My guess is a lot of this: SignatureMark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion ------------------------------------------------------------ Nine out of ten priests who have tried Camels, prefer young boys. > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/a254f1e65f40b59c > > What happen with the Sermo deadline? http://heartmdphd.com/SermoExposed.asp "November 21, 2007 (I can't believe he was lucid enough to delete his address. Maybe he's learned something from us after all?) Dr. Chung: Sermo has a policy of allowing the free exchange of information posted by physicians. As timply the host of a web stie, Sermon does not perform traditional editorial functions such as reviewing, withdrawing, or altering content of postings. However, you have repeatedly violated Sermo's Terms of Service by copying and publishing information from the Sermos website that is the property of Sermo, within the tech-archive.net website without the consent of Sermo. As result of your breach in the Sermo Terms of Service, Sermo is teminating your use license and has removed youraccess to the Sermo community. Sincerely. Sermo, Inc." ROFL! Man, this is gonna be good! (aa & auk added) The seven signs of crank science: 1. The discoverer pitches the claim directly to the media. 2. The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to suppress his or her work. 3. The scientific effect involved is always at the very limit of detection. 4. Evidence for a discovery is anecdotal. 5. The discoverer says a belief is credible because it has endured for centuries. 6. The discoverer has worked in isolation. 7. The discoverer must propose new laws of nature to explain an observation. I think Andy's little webpage tirade answers nos. 2, 3, 4, and 6. Four down and three to go! Go OMER Boy, Go! -Panama Floyd, Atlanta. aa#2015/KoBAAWA! >I wasn't sure why my levels were so low, considering the high carb content - >I ate everything, including the bowl. Then it occurred to me, I remember [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >so bad, I guess, and I now realize that perhaps I can occaisionally eat >higher-carb foods, as long as the fat content is also "relatively" high? Wow - remind me not to eat that : ) But yes, your hypothesis is reasonable; I occasionally use fat to slow down a spike, hopefully enough so that my pretty good phase 2 response can deal with it. I'm planning exactly that strategy with Christmas pudding and cream... I also use a glass of wine with a meal to suppress the liver's contribution to basal glucose levels; not recommended if you've gone out for dinner... Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 | Shortly after being diagnosed as Type II, I began reading the nutrition | guides at various fast food restaurants that we as a family frequent, [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] | | Anyone else have similar experiences? Am I on the right track on this? You must be forgetting you're a T2, which means you have some if not more then enough of your own insulin left to cover what foods you eat. When a Diabetic decreases their glucose levels back down to a normal range and takes off the fat, most times they are able to eat more like a non-diabetic because their IR is dramatically decreased. Good for you for getting to this point. Keep up the good work. rk, t1 On Dec 4, 9:34 pm, "Frisbee(R)" <billLASTN...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Shortly after being diagnosed as Type II, I began reading the nutrition > guides at various fast food restaurants that we as a family frequent, [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Anyone else have similar experiences? Am I on the right track on this? A few weeks ago I ate a big hamburger and a plate full of freshly made french fries. I figured I was making a big mistake by killing all the fries on my plate and then eating a few that were my wife's. I dreaded the 2 hour test and behold, I was shocked to see my sugar level at 106. To maintain those numbers I think I should go to that restaurant and repeat this meal 3 times per day. >> Anyone else have similar experiences? Am I on the right track on this? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >106. To maintain those numbers I think I should go to that restaurant >and repeat this meal 3 times per day. What was your one-hour? In a different thread I mentioned eating some battered fish, broccoli and fries tonight. My one hour wasn't bad, at 6.3(113). However my two-hour was 4.9(88). If you aren't testing at your peak, it doesn't mean much. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com What lerp doesnt seem to grasp is that while perhaps HE can eat that no probem..that same meal would put another person in extreem danger of problems due to sky high numbers... So to act like becuse he can scarf not only a high carb meal but a days calories in one sitting..is harmful to new people who dont get that he is the exception and not the rule. KROM >>> Anyone else have similar experiences? Am I on the right track on this? >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > -- > http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com > What lerp doesnt seem to grasp is that while perhaps HE can eat that no > probem..that same meal would put another person in extreem danger of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > calories in one sitting..is harmful to new people who dont get that he is > the exception and not the rule. My daughter has a big bag of stuff from El Polo Loco. Tomorrow I'll be eating leftover breaded fried chicken, mashed potatoes and gravy, biscuits and butter, maybe some cole slaw. SignatureNick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ >> What lerp doesnt seem to grasp is that while perhaps HE can eat that no >> probem..that same meal would put another person in extreem danger of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >eating leftover breaded fried chicken, mashed potatoes and gravy, >biscuits and butter, maybe some cole slaw. Envy. The only thing I could eat in that lot is the butter and maybe, but not definitely, the coleslaw. KFC is the worst fried chicken for me. My meter thinks that ten of the eleven secret herbs and spices are sugars. "Loco" seems apt, but for the diner rather than the restaurant... Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Not surprising one of the secrets is dried powdered potato. (- -) =m=(_)=m= RodS T2 Australia >> My daughter has a big bag of stuff from El Polo Loco. Tomorrow I'll be >> eating leftover breaded fried chicken, mashed potatoes and gravy, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > -- > http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com I worked for kfc as a kid and have never eaten there since..lol. The chicken is a odd shade of green pre fried..dunno why..but it so grossed me out i never ate it again. I also found most of the stuff over handled by people..the only safeish item is the fried nuggets which came in frozen. The gravy for example is made with wall of the giant deep fryer scrapings as its cleaned..lol KROM > Not surprising one of the secrets is dried powdered potato. > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> -- >> http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com In alt.support.diabetes on Sat, 08 Dec 2007 23:47:38 +1100 in Msg.# <ne4ll39rb8mlb3mpini4uhatbtghuqsogo@4ax.com>, Alan S <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote: > KFC is the worst fried chicken for me. My meter thinks that > ten of the eleven secret herbs and spices are sugars. My only problem with KFC chicken is that I should, but don't want to, discard the chicken skin. So, I split the difference and discard it from half & eat it from half. My only other problem with KFC is that I want to eat 3 or 4 of their biscuits - but I eat one. I have no problem with their slaw. I don't eat anything else from their menu, much as I would love to have some of their brown gravy over their biscuits. Still, I am able to manage to control myself while enjoying what I do indulge in. SignatureDonnaB shallotpeel, T2 since June 06, USA, last HbA1c 5.3 "Behind an able man there are always other able men." - Chinese Proverb >In alt.support.diabetes on Sat, 08 Dec 2007 23:47:38 +1100 in Msg.# ><ne4ll39rb8mlb3mpini4uhatbtghuqsogo@4ax.com>, Alan S [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >My only problem with KFC chicken is that I should, but don't want to, >discard the chicken skin. I would have to do the same but not for the same reason. The skin is no problem for me at all, the fat in that doesn't bother me. The problem is the carbs in the coating for my BG's and the probability of transfats in the deep-frying oil which are also in the coating. >So, I split the difference and discard it from >half & eat it from half. My only other problem with KFC is that I want to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Still, I am able to manage to control myself while enjoying what I do >indulge in. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com In alt.support.diabetes on Sun, 09 Dec 2007 07:41:37 +1100 in Msg.# <b60ml3hj3o9nv4mtuud9t8gt2d5b3qh1pr@4ax.com>, Alan S <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote: > >My only problem with KFC chicken is that I should, but don't want to, > >discard the chicken skin. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > BG's and the probability of transfats in the deep-frying oil > which are also in the coating. I am not sure why you assumed I need to discard it for a different reason than that. I mean, that is the reason. SignatureDonnaB shallotpeel, T2 since June 06, USA, last HbA1c 5.3 "Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and as sweet as love." - Turkish proverb >In alt.support.diabetes on Sun, 09 Dec 2007 07:41:37 +1100 in Msg.# ><b60ml3hj3o9nv4mtuud9t8gt2d5b3qh1pr@4ax.com>, Alan S [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >I am not sure why you assumed I need to discard it for a different reason >than that. I mean, that is the reason. My mistake. Most people I know discard the skin to minimise chicken fat. But not me - or you:-) Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com In alt.support.diabetes on Sun, 09 Dec 2007 09:47:28 +1100 in Msg.# <hm7ml3ti8sk2uhuv46rai2lrdlfuc10839@4ax.com>, Alan S <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote: > My mistake. Most people I know discard the skin to minimise > chicken fat. But not me - or you:-) Gotcha. It's that delicious breading, SIGH, that I need to go without. SignatureDonnaB shallotpeel, T2 since June 06, USA, last HbA1c 5.3 "Danger and delight grow on one stalk." - English Proverb > My daughter has a big bag of stuff from El Polo Loco. Tomorrow I'll be eating leftover breaded fried chicken, mashed potatoes and gravy, > biscuits and butter, maybe some cole slaw. No breaded fried chicken at El Pollo Loco. They grill it. http://www.elpolloloco.com/index.html But you can pig out on the mashed potatoes and biscuits. Jay > What lerp doesnt seem to grasp is that while perhaps HE can eat that no > probem..that same meal would put another person in extreem danger of > problems due to sky high numbers... We all eat to our meter. On this occasion, I binged okay? I will ask you for your opinion first before I eat out with my wife again okay? I was merely stating that I was suprised I survived that outing with a decent number. I don't test fate. > So to act like becuse he can scarf not only a high carb meal but a days > calories in one sitting..is harmful to new people who dont get that he is > the exception and not the rule. I readily admit it was the exception okay? New diabetics don't need to test every :30 minutes like you guys do. > KROM > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > - Show quoted text - >> What lerp doesnt seem to grasp is that while perhaps HE can eat that no >> probem..that same meal would put another person in extreem danger of [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >test every :30 >minutes like you guys do. On that we differ. When they are new is exactly when diabetics need to test like some of us do. Not necessarily every 30 minutes, but certainly at as many post-prandial peak times as possible. It's later, when the personal database of foods, exercise and BG's effects has been created that the testing can become occasional "maintenance" tests. However, most newbies quickly find when their peaks commonly occur and don't waste post-prandial tests on off peak times. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com In alt.support.diabetes on Sat, 8 Dec 2007 05:20:14 -0800 (PST) in Msg.# <88180849-d323-4e7c-a527-362fec08938b@b1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, Lerp <diabeticlerp@gmail.com> wrote: > I readily admit it was the exception okay? New diabetics don't need to > test every :30 minutes like you guys do. Okay, I don't know people who test every half hour. And, I've not tested every half hour. BUT, when you are new, that is exactly when you need to test more often - if you are testing for meaningful results. SignatureDonnaB shallotpeel "Coffee has two virtues: it is wet & warm." - Dutch proverb [from H.L. Mencken's Dictionary] The point to early multi testing is to learn each person OWN peaks and get an idea of what does what to them. I only test maybe 3 times a day now but more if im sick or trying a new food or feeling off. Trust me im happy for those who can eat carby things and be fine..i just know most cant and when two or three people constantly post that those who cant control thier DM with eating alot of carbs are low carb zelots and insult them it gives a new person the wrong idea and is very dangerous. Me..i can eat carbs and take alot more meds..or reduce my carbs and replace them with veggies and low spiking fruits and take no little to no meds. I prefere to take in as little chemicals as i can while maintaining good control. Another may feel thats too hard to follow and take the meds..whatever the bottom line is control. Nobody is attackign you..just pointing these things out not just for you but lurkers. You also must realise you for whatever reason aligned yourself with a person who came here posting porn and trolling the group under multi names and another who lied about being a type two diabetic to push HIS agenda and who also lives to fight with certain other posters. Thats your choice to do so but you must understand the bad "vibes" against those two isnt directed at you..i got in the middle of a war when i came here and it took me steppping back and learning on my own what the posters where about and the history of them. KROM >> What lerp doesnt seem to grasp is that while perhaps HE can eat that no >> probem..that same meal would put another person in extreem danger of [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >> >> - Show quoted text - > The point to early multi testing is to learn each person OWN peaks and get > an idea of what does what to them. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > another who lied about being a type two diabetic to push HIS agenda and who > also lives to fight with certain other posters. You are a sheep who has bought into the groupspeak and have no firsthand knowledge about what you are posting. You weren't here when any of that happened yet you criticize and attack Tom and I because of what you have been told. Once upon a time Tom was one of those lurkers and newbies you profess to be so concerned about and if you look at what really happened when he came in here you will see he was not the only one at fault. Like most history, it gets distorted with time. Alan has posted links to the discussion - because he just loves doing that - but usually fails to include the way Tom was attacked that caused him to react the way he did. It's not a one sided story as you have been brainwashed to believe. As far as my lie of being a Type 2...yes, in ONE post I did say I was a Type 2. I admitted to it after Ozgirl found that one post and I regret that I wrote that to Arnie. That was 5 years ago. Is there ever a time to let things go? I may not be the most popular poster in here, but with the exception of that one post I always speak the truth. But it seems like you and a few others want to discredit everything Tom or I have to say because it doesn't jibe with how you see the world. So you focus on sh.t that happened here many years ago as a way to show that we are wrong and your way is right. How honest have you been? No way of knowing because you, like most in here, are an anonymous person who types words while being in a place of complete and total anonymity. That is the world of Usenet. > Thats your choice to do so but you must understand the bad "vibes" against > those two isnt directed at you..i got in the middle of a war when i came > here and it took me steppping back and learning on my own what the posters > where about and the history of them. You seem to do little but criticize others in this newsgroup. Seriously, just about every post you make is commentary about others who you disagree with. No doubt you have probably posted something of use to other diabetics, but I have to say that when I see your name I suspect it will either be whining about something Tom or I have posted or it will be to fan the flames of an argument. So maybe you should step down from your moral high ground and consider your own contributions. You always decry anything I have to say that might be negative, but ignore the constant insults thrown towards me. Kind of makes your high horse have wobbly legs...if you know what I mean. How about you let Lerp make up his own mind about who he talks to. If he finds me as appalling as you do, he certainly seems like someone with the intelligence and spine to cut me off. Does he really need your guidance in terms of who to speak to in this newsgroup? Like most people in here, I am civil to him because he is civil to me. It's as simple as that. And while I'm getting a few things off my chest. Spellcheck your posts...you come off as being very illiterate. You mock Guy for that, but he has conditions that cause him to have a lot of typos. What's your excuse? Kurt "Killfile me now, avoid the rush" > So you focus on sh.t that happened here many years ago Wonderfully Freudian:-) Have a nice day, Kurt. Cheers, Alan LOL..what a moron you are i have never mocked guy for spelling that was sombody else and i have always said that he was liekly high or low when he posts garbled messages and said that i can tell if i am high or low because my dislexia really kicks in..so you flat wrong abotu that and most all in yer post. Here is my take on you.. You prob came here as a troll..made up persona..liked the attention so decided to remake yourself over. You spend all your time harping on alans posts and when called out as a troll will spam the group with cut and past "information" posts to look semi credable..in which you rarely discuss if sombody does respond. You refuse to answer the most basic question which is this: If you as a type one diabetic control with insuline and use alot less eating low spike and high nutriton why would you harp on another poster who is doing just that? If gantlet is in control of his type two with diet and exercise then why does he and you troll alan who recomends exactlly that? Since you never answer this you are a troll...a pathetic one at that. I never claim to be a guru or try to offer more then support..you however DO claim to know more about type twos then the type two's in the group. Your a sad sack loser who's self worth is based on if lerp and gantlet like you..lol. Me..i post what i whatever i feel like and dont care if anyone likes it or not. Your a cute lil fella keep a trying..some day the other one will drop for ya kurt..maybe.. KROM "Kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote And while I'm getting a few things off my chest. Spellcheck your posts...you come off as being very illiterate. You mock Guy for that, but he has conditions that cause him to have a lot of typos. What's your excuse? Kurt "Killfile me now, avoid the rush" In alt.support.diabetes on Sat, 8 Dec 2007 22:23:25 -0800 (PST) in Msg.# <0a0a12d5-8d67-44e0-b3fe-c5d1f6059f4f@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Kurt <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote: > You are a sheep who has bought into the groupspeak krom? A sheep? Not likely. > As far as my lie of being a Type 2...yes, in ONE post I did say I was > a Type 2. I admitted to it after Ozgirl found that one post and I > regret that I wrote that to Arnie. That was 5 years ago. Is there > ever a time to let things go? People can & do move on - if there's reason to. > I may not be the most popular poster in > here, but with the exception of that one post I always speak the > truth. But it seems like you and a few others want to discredit > everything Tom or I have to say because it doesn't jibe with how you > see the world. Actually, you're describing yourself & Tom & your approach to what others here post. > You seem to do little but criticize others in this newsgroup. Now that is patently untrue. > ... No doubt you have probably posted something of > use to other diabetics, but I have to say that when I see your name I > suspect it will either be whining about something Tom or I have posted > or it will be to fan the flames of an argument. Then that is your own perspective that is in your way. > ... I am civil to him because he is civil to me. It's > as simple as that. I am civil to everyone but trolls, spammers, etc. Heck, most people here are civil to most people here! SignatureDonnaB shallotpeel "Write down the advice of him who loves you, though you like it not at present." - English Proverb Hello Kurt: I don't have enough respect for most that insult me here to even bother defending myself or returning the insults.( most times) I have a feeling the person you are replying to here we know from another name.. Also now that I sit on the side lines for most of these flame fests its pretty easy to see who is full of BS and who is not. that is also another reason why I don't bother. Sorry to say that I do not have the time to point out just how many things that are said about you that are just not true. Lerp was given a small taste of what newbie's get when they disagree what people like him will never know is that if it wasn't for those of us that stay and get insulted year after year his treatment would have been much worse and it wouldn't have only been Alan saying he smells a rodent but many others would have welcomed him the same way. In a way we won. we give people like Lerp the welcome they expected when they came here and maybe he will stay and welcome the next newbie that is treated like a rodent in a support group. SignatureTom www.TomsDiabeticDiary.com Chat in peace with other diabetes at the American Diabetes Associations Web Site. http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=index&webtag=amdiabetesz&redi rCnt=1 Information You Can "Trust" From Your American Diabetes Association www.diabetes.org Information on Specific Types of Fat. http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-recipes/nutrition/foodlabel/specific-fats.jsp On Dec 8, 9:57?pm, "krom" <thekromremoverem...@hotmail.com> wrote: > The point to early multi testing is to learn each person OWN peaks and get > an idea of what does what to them. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > who > also lives to fight with certain other posters. You are a sheep who has bought into the groupspeak and have no firsthand knowledge about what you are posting. You weren't here when any of that happened yet you criticize and attack Tom and I because of what you have been told. Once upon a time Tom was one of those lurkers and newbies you profess to be so concerned about and if you look at what really happened when he came in here you will see he was not the only one at fault. Like most history, it gets distorted with time. Alan has posted links to the discussion - because he just loves doing that - but usually fails to include the way Tom was attacked that caused him to react the way he did. It's not a one sided story as you have been brainwashed to believe. As far as my lie of being a Type 2...yes, in ONE post I did say I was a Type 2. I admitted to it after Ozgirl found that one post and I regret that I wrote that to Arnie. That was 5 years ago. Is there ever a time to let things go? I may not be the most popular poster in here, but with the exception of that one post I always speak the truth. But it seems like you and a few others want to discredit everything Tom or I have to say because it doesn't jibe with how you see the world. So you focus on sh.t that happened here many years ago as a way to show that we are wrong and your way is right. How honest have you been? No way of knowing because you, like most in here, are an anonymous person who types words while being in a place of complete and total anonymity. That is the world of Usenet. > Thats your choice to do so but you must understand the bad "vibes" against > those two isnt directed at you..i got in the middle of a war when i came > here and it took me steppping back and learning on my own what the posters > where about and the history of them. You seem to do little but criticize others in this newsgroup. Seriously, just about every post you make is commentary about others who you disagree with. No doubt you have probably posted something of use to other diabetics, but I have to say that when I see your name I suspect it will either be whining about something Tom or I have posted or it will be to fan the flames of an argument. So maybe you should step down from your moral high ground and consider your own contributions. You always decry anything I have to say that might be negative, but ignore the constant insults thrown towards me. Kind of makes your high horse have wobbly legs...if you know what I mean. How about you let Lerp make up his own mind about who he talks to. If he finds me as appalling as you do, he certainly seems like someone with the intelligence and spine to cut me off. Does he really need your guidance in terms of who to speak to in this newsgroup? Like most people in here, I am civil to him because he is civil to me. It's as simple as that. And while I'm getting a few things off my chest. Spellcheck your posts...you come off as being very illiterate. You mock Guy for that, but he has conditions that cause him to have a lot of typos. What's your excuse? Kurt "Killfile me now, avoid the rush" In alt.support.diabetes on Sun, 09 Dec 2007 18:49:25 GMT in Msg.# > I have a feeling the person you are replying to here we know from another > name.. Not anyone else who has been here since I've been here. > Also now that I sit on the side lines for most of these flame fests its > pretty easy to see who is full of BS and who is not. I don't find there to be much flaming going on here, personally, but I absolutely agree that it is pretty easy to see who is full of it & who is not! LOL > that is also another reason why I don't bother. If only. > In a way we won. Too bad you think of it as something to win or lose. To me the only war here is the war against diabetes. YMMV. SignatureDonnaB shallotpeel "Worries go down better with soup than without." - Jewish Proverb > The point to early multi testing is to learn each person OWN peaks and get > an idea of what does what to them. I just told you how well I did with a once in a while deviation in this very thread and you were quick to criticize me. It appears you think you know how I will respond to certain foods better than I do. > I only test maybe 3 times a day now but more if im sick or trying a new food > or feeling off. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > cant control thier DM with eating alot of carbs are low carb zelots and > insult them it gives a new person the wrong idea and is very dangerous. You guys seem to be bent on telling me how poorly I am doing when my meter and A1C say the opposite. > Me..i can eat carbs and take alot more meds..or reduce my carbs and replace > them with veggies and low spiking fruits and take no little to no meds. [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Nope you were with kurt and gantlet bashing those who dont or cant eat alot of carbs as being wrong. I simply pointed out that was a lame thing to do...that just because YOU can scarf crap food it doesnt make those who chose to eat a low spike diet bad. You kept arguing that because YOU could eat whatever you wanted that WE were posting lies. You asked why we were so fired up about testing and we told you ...what you do with that info is on you. If you want to have a poor me complex like kurt and gantlet feel free but dont act like people trying to explain to you thier resoning as somhow being mean. KROM > I just told you how well I did with a once in a while deviation in > this very thread and you [quoted text clipped - 102 lines] >> >> - Show quoted text - >> What lerp doesnt seem to grasp is that while perhaps HE can eat that no >> probem..that same meal would put another person in extreem danger of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >that I was suprised I survived that outing with a decent number. I >don't test fate. Yeah, but you see, we're surprised that you thought that was a decent number. Testing at 2 hours is pointless for discovering damage, without also knowing what your peak was. The idea is to both limit your spike - which protects your eyes, nerves and kidneys - AND limit the area under the curve, which reflects on your A1c and protects against heart attack and stroke. Knowing your 2-hour without any idea of what your peak was, is pretty pointless. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > >> What lerp doesnt seem to grasp is that while perhaps HE can eat that no > >> probem..that same meal would put another person in extreem danger of [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > D&E, 100ug thyroxine > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 You guys here know my sugar; what was my peak? And any doctor will tell you 106 at 2 hour is very good. In article <ddf83774-aa93-4a33-b834-abda8488d0b3@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > You guys here know my sugar; what was my peak? And any doctor will > tell you 106 at 2 hour is very good. I don't know about any "one hour test club" -- I think most people are just reacting to your insistence that 106 was the end of the story. You haven't said if you know that whatever you ate only affects you within 2 hours. Do you know for a fact that you didn't run up to 150 at 3 hours? I've had whole-wheat pasta and wine many times and never tested past 2 hours. I thought my numbers were great. Then someone here commented on the pasta effect and I thought I'd try it out. I was floored to see that for the first FOUR hours I was under 130 and then at hour five I ramped up to 160. I had no idea I did that. Now I do. And luckily, I can still eat said pasta. I just know that about 4-5 hours after I eat it I need to exercise. So, I learned something useful. I think all of this is just people pointing this out and you seemingly very annoyed that anyone would question you. If you know that that food's spike is done and gone by 2 hours, great! No issues here. If you never tested past 2 hours and just assume all is fine, then it's your body and your risk. Your A1C is good so it's a good bet that you're doing OK. Me, I'm newly dx'd and I'm testing where I can to learn what I can. The stakes are too high to do otherwise. Once I have this all mentally mapped out, I'll only test when I know I have to. I'm not there yet. If you are, great. -AW SignatureAndy T2 dx 7/2007; D&E, 500mg Metformin 1/day DX A1C: 13.2%, no new A1C yet, BMI 31 (and dropping) Argue for your limitations and you get to keep them. > Me, I'm newly dx'd and I'm testing where I can > to learn what I can. The stakes are too high to do otherwise. Once I > have this all mentally mapped out, I'll only test when I know I have to. Agreed. Signaturehttp://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/ >You guys here know my sugar; what was my peak? And any doctor will >tell you 106 at 2 hour is very good. If I ate that meal, my peak would have been around the 250 mark, and at about 2 1/2 hours I would be hypo. As you're not testing, both you and any doctor who told you that was an OK reading are living in cloud cookoo land. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > What lerp doesnt seem to grasp is that while perhaps HE can eat that no > probem..that same meal would put another person in extreem danger of > problems due to sky high numbers... Extreme danger? That's exaggerating just a bit, don't you think? > So to act like becuse he can scarf �not only a high carb meal but a days > calories in one sitting..is harmful to new people who dont get that he is > the exception and not the rule. There is a lot of "advice" posted here by individuals that might not be good for others. This is a place where people should share their stories but you insult new people by thinking that they will just follow the herd like mindless sheep. Although, now that I thin of it, there seem to be many who come in here and do just that. That's why it's important that people don't try to control their diabetes by what they read from a book or on the Internet. Working with a professional who understands one's particular needs will avoid them being in "extreme danger" by being under the hypnotic trance that Lerp has put them in. :) Kurt >> What lerp doesnt seem to grasp is that while perhaps HE can eat that no >> probem..that same meal would put another person in extreem danger of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >stories but you insult new people by thinking that they will just >follow the herd like mindless sheep. Sorry, you're mistaking this place for a waiting room. That's where you find mindless sheep. This isn't a waiting room. It's an active room. > Although, now that I thin of it, >there seem to be many who come in here and do just that. > >That's why it's important that people don't try to control their >diabetes by what they read from a book or on the Internet. Working >with a professional who understands one's particular needs Therein lies the difficulty. I had this surreal image in my mind; there we all are in the Diabetes 101 class with the ADA dietician... OK class, put up your hands if your medical professional understood your particular needs when you were newly diagnosed. You can put your hands down now. Yes Kurt, I did notice you. Anyone else? I'm waiting.... Now put your hands up if applying the "test, test, test" advice you read on alt.support.diabetes caused any dangers of any kind to your health. Come on class, are you listening to me? I'm not seeing many hands. OK Tom, you can put your hand down now. Kurt, you shouldn't put up both hands, it isn't fair. Oh, sorry, there's one in the back...can't quite see who it is... Now put your hands up if applying the "test, test, test" advice you read on alt.support.diabetes improved your health and you discussed that with your medical professionals and were advised to "keep doing what you are doing". Hmmm. OK, you can put your hands down now. And there was no need to stand on your chairs and cheer. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com "Alan S" <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> a écrit ... >>> What lerp doesnt seem to grasp is that while perhaps HE can eat that no >>> probem..that same meal would put another person in extreem danger of [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > OK, you can put your hands down now. And there was no need > to stand on your chairs and cheer. Darn. NOW you tell me not to cheer ? >Now put your hands up if applying the "test, test, test" >advice you read on alt.support.diabetes improved your health [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >OK, you can put your hands down now. And there was no need >to stand on your chairs and cheer. Oh, yes, there is. As loudly and often as we can! :D Nicky. (Next cheer coming out next month, on a Oxford Uni site of patient stories.) T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 "Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> a écrit ... >>Now put your hands up if applying the "test, test, test" >>advice you read on alt.support.diabetes improved your health [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Nicky. (Next cheer coming out next month, on a Oxford Uni site of > patient stories.) OK, Nicky .. now I have to know .. .WHICH site ? I went to Brookes Uni up in Headington (top of the hill) F > T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid > D&E, 100ug thyroxine > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >OK, Nicky .. now I have to know .. .WHICH site ? dipex.com - not there yet, checked earlier today. >I went to Brookes Uni up in Headington (top of the hill) OMG - so did I, when it was Oxford Poly :D And had digs over the butcher in Headington, opposite the 50p-a-seat arts cinema - what you could do with a student grant in those days! Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 "Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> a écrit ... >>OK, Nicky .. now I have to know .. .WHICH site ? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > And had digs over the butcher in Headington, opposite the 50p-a-seat > arts cinema - what you could do with a student grant in those days! GRANNNYYYYYYYYY ! ;)) > Nicky. > T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid > D&E, 100ug thyroxine > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > OK, you can put your hands down now. And there was no need > to stand on your chairs and cheer. If the low carb/low fat war must continue, I prefer it be amusing like this post was! ;) Signaturehttp://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/ > >> What lerp doesnt seem to grasp is that while perhaps HE can eat that no > >> probem..that same meal would put another person in extreem danger of [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > You can put your hands down now. Yes Kurt, I did notice you. > Anyone else? I'm waiting.... Alan - You are showing a remarkable lack of understanding of how at least some of us here were diagnosed, and the extremes we've been through. When you're diagnosed while going in and out of coma as a result of DKA, or you've made a couple of ER trips in an ambulance, then you have the experience to judge what "Extreme Danger" is. Otherwise you're just an inexperienced newbie. Tim. >> >> What lerp doesnt seem to grasp is that while perhaps HE can eat that no >> >> probem..that same meal would put another person in extreem danger of [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > >Tim. Are you sure you meant that for me? I wasn't commenting on the "Extreme Danger" post. Kurt was. However, regardless of that, I don't see any point in discussing whether type 2 is more dangerous than type 1. They are both bloody dangerous in different ways and such an argument seems particularly pointless to me. You face some dangers that are more direct and immediate at times, we face more insidious dangers over time, some of which you also face to a different degree. What is the point of those comparisons? We would just be running around arguing about the best cabin to be in when all the lifeboats leave the Titanic. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Latest: The Diabetes Revolution? > You are showing a remarkable lack of understanding of how at least >some of us here were diagnosed, and the extremes we've been through. > > When you're diagnosed while going in and out of coma as a result of >DKA, or you've made a couple of ER trips in an ambulance, then you >have the experience to judge what "Extreme Danger" is. So, what are YOU not counting - heart attack? BTDT. Neuropathy? BTDT. I'm never likely to have a hypo 999 run - but playing my disease is worse than yours is stupid. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > You are showing a remarkable lack of understanding of how at least > some of us here were diagnosed, and the extremes we've been through. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Otherwise you're just an inexperienced newbie. Then, I've been an inexperienced newbie for almost twenty years then as I've never had a DKA episode. I was unaware that was the *only* type of "extreme danger" diabetics could suffer. I rather thought my MI was kind of extreme, so it's good to know nothing extreme can happen to me cause I'm a T2. Tim, you have *different* health challenges than me; that doesn't make mine irrelevant. T2s suffer the same complications from elevated bg over time that T1s do, plus added damage from high serum insulin levels. No, we don't suffer the extremes of lows and highs that T1s can experience, but that hardly makes T2 an unserious disease. Signaturehttp://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/ One thing I haven't really seen discussed in this thread is WHY the ADA (and other groups) make some of the recommendations they do. Here in a.s.d we have a self-selected group of people who are largely motivated and proactive. (Those who are apathetic rarely bother to seek out extra information here.) Doctors, on the other hand, don't get to select. They deal with a pretty random population of diabetics. If you talk to doctors or groups like the ADA you will find that in those =random= groups patient compliance is rather low. Some will make some effort at compliance, quite a few others will make almost no effort at compliance, only a small number will attempt to really take control of this disease. Because of this huge non-compliance issue, the advice given to the general populace is NOT the optimal path to take. The reasoning of the ADA is that because the optimal path is more difficult, even fewer people would comply with it than with what they recommend - and when they failed to comply, a large number would give up and not make ANY effort at compliance. So the general ADA advice is a balance. It boils down to "Here's something that is =relatively= easy to follow. We think that it will give the best OVERALL results in the general population because more people will actually try to follow it. We will advocate a non-optimal course of action that still does SOME good and that a reasonable number of people will follow. This gives more benefit to the population at large compared to if we were to advocate the best course of action that only a small number will follow." So the advice on testing times, numbers to consider "good" and so on are based on what they think they can get a larger number of apathetic people to shoot for. But as I said, here on a.s.d we have a different situation. Almost everyone here is highly motivated. We have spent a lot of time trying to find out what is the best approach FOR MOTIVATED PEOPLE rather than the best approach for LARGELY APETHETIC people. So in general for T2s most of us recommend additional testing to find out how we react as individuals. In general we look to keep spikes as low and for as short a duration as practical. Instead of shooting for the "Barely adequate to avoid some complications" numbers we shoot for "Let's have a decent chance at avoiding all complications" numbers. Just in the last year the ADA has ADMITTED that the reason they didn't recommend a lowcarb diet (in spite of knowing that it reduced blood sugar levels) is because they thought it would be "too hard" for most people to stick with. I would much rather have the full information and be able to make my choices accordingly. For a long, long time the ADA refused to admit that a lowcarb diet helped AT ALL. So we may finally be turning the corner. Personally, I'm much better at compliance with diet than I am with exercise. But in realizing this I also get to say "Never mind the wishy-washy plan given to the apathetic general public, tell me what the optimal plan is." If the optimal plan includes major points ABCDEF, well, maybe I've got a particular problem with C and E (you can assume E=Exercise if you like <g>). But maybe I can really do ABDF very well. So FOR ME, a plan featuring points ABDF heavily and CE only lightly (ce) will probably do better than their general "Here's something we hope everyone will find easy enough" recommendation of just ab. For me, ABcDeF will probably be both more effective AND be something I can stick with. But while my plan of ABcDeF may be more effective than their plan of ab, for another person a plan of aBCDEf might be better. And so on. Fortunately, I'm only IGT (Impaired Glucose Tolerance), not T2. At this point no doctor has EVER recommended that I test. But I wanted to avoid having this progress on to fullblown T2 diabetes. So I've bought my own meter and strips, changed my diet, lost 20 pounds and tested - and in general I've kept a progressive disease from getting any worse for 15+ years. My odds of avoiding complications are pretty good - and certainly MUCH better than if I had waited until I had a formal diagnosis of T2 diabetes to begin making changes. So remember - most doctors and groups like the ADA set their recommendations and targets for the lowest common denominator, the mostly-apathetic low-compliance patients they see over and over. That does NOT describe this group. I may fail to go the =completely= optimal route (that would involve more exercise and dropping more weight), but what I =have= accomplished is =far= better than what the standard ADA advice I was given ("No problem, just get tested again in a few years") would have resulted in. >So remember - most doctors and groups like the ADA set their >recommendations and targets for the lowest common denominator, the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >standard ADA advice I was given ("No problem, just get tested again in >a few years") would have resulted in. Good post, Harold. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 Ecellent post harold thank you. KROM > One thing I haven't really seen discussed in this thread is WHY the > ADA (and other groups) make some of the recommendations they do. [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > standard ADA advice I was given ("No problem, just get tested again in > a few years") would have resulted in. >One thing I haven't really seen discussed in this thread is WHY the >ADA (and other groups) make some of the recommendations they do. [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] >standard ADA advice I was given ("No problem, just get tested again in >a few years") would have resulted in. Well said Harold! I will admit that I was somewhat baffled by the recommendations of the various Diabetic Associations, by the "that's good enough" guidelines of various doctors and meter manufacturers, and I had already figured out that the Associations were trying for the maximum compliance for the masses. You put it into words, and I thank you for it. Your post is a keeper. SignatureLarry, T2, Saskatchewan, Canada. DX 24 Aug 07. D&E Metformin 2000mg, Ramipril, Simvastatin Dx A1c 8.1 : Latest 5.1 > One thing I haven't really seen discussed in this thread is WHY theADA(and other groups) make some of the recommendations they do. Well, this has come up in here quite often, almost on a weekly basis in one form or another. And since I've been labeled the ADA's cheerleader I'll try to address your questions. But since I have no offical affiliation with them, other then respecting the organization, it will strictly be IMO. > Here in a.s.d we have a self-selected group of people who are largely > motivated and proactive. �(Those who are apathetic rarely bother to > seek out extra information here.) I agree. However, because of that we here don't represent the average diabetic and that's the group the ADA and other professional groups must contend with. > Doctors, on the other hand, don't get to select. �They deal with a > pretty random population of diabetics. � I'd venture a guess that most of the diabetics that doctors see are not very compliant when it comes to doing what is needed to control this insidious disease. >If you talk to doctors or > groups like theADAyou will find that in those =random= groups > patient compliance is rather low. � Agree. >Some will make some effort at > compliance, quite a few others will make almost no effort at > compliance, only a small number will attempt to really take control of > this disease. Agree. � > Because of this huge non-compliance issue, the advice given to the > general populace is NOT the optimal path to take. � If by that you mean they must be realistic with who they are dealing with and set goals that are minimum rather than maximum I would say that you're correct. >The reasoning of > theADAis that because the optimal path is more difficult, even fewer > people would comply with it than with what they recommend - and when > they failed to comply, a large number would give up and not make ANY > effort at compliance. � It's possible, although if you really look at what the ADA recommends they try to encourage more than just minimal compliance. For instance, they advise that a patient should strive for an a1c that's lower than 7...and add that closer to near normal numbers is what the real goal is. Ironically, almost a year ago today, Morris wrote an excellent post that deals with one of your concerns about the ADA and more stringent advice. http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diabetes/msg/812f7b17f14451bd >So the generalADAadvice is a balance. �It > boils down to "Here's something that is =relatively= easy to follow. Relatively easy for someone who is proactive, not for someone who is apathetic. > We think that it will give the best OVERALL results in the general > population because more people will actually try to follow it. �We > will advocate a non-optimal course of action that still does SOME good > and that a reasonable number of people will follow. �This gives more > benefit to the population at large compared to if we were to advocate > the best course of action that only a small number will follow." I think that's part of their methodology, but they also lean heavily on advising that each person is different and we should work with our doctors to determine our individual needs and goals. If a doctor knows that you or I are very proactive and can achieve better numbers then they will, or at least should, encourage us to do that. We also would take it upon ourselves to to that anyway. I've never had a doctor tell me that I test too much, or my A1c is too low, or I ask too many questions. The ADA site is a general information center and should not be used as a medical clinic where you get treated. It has no idea what you Harold, or me Kurt need in terms our diabetic control. Those specific issues should be determined by our doctors. > So the advice on testing times, numbers to consider "good" and so on > are based on what they think they can get a larger number of apathetic > people to shoot for. There minimums certainly seem to be. Yet, many people fail to reach even those. This is not just isolated to people with diabetes. For many years health organizations have encouraged people to eat better and exercise more. I bet if you polled 100 people all of them could tell you that it's healthier to eat more fruits, vegetables, fish, lean meats and stay away from junk food...they know this is what they should be doing, but they don't do it. Same with exercise. Same with smoking. How can these organizations enforce someone's willpower and personal discipline? > But as I said, here on a.s.d we have a different situation. �Almost > everyone here is highly motivated. �We have spent a lot of time trying [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > sugar levels) is because they thought it would be "too hard" for most > people to stick with. � That and the fact that it's still not determined what the effects of eating low carb are in the long run. Freckles (Don) asked recently if anyone could provide a link to a prolonged, major, non-commercial study commending the safety and effectiveness of a low-carb diet over a period of many years. Lots of words later, no one has provided such a link. > I would much rather have the full information and be able to make my > choices accordingly. �For a long, long time theADArefused to admit > that a lowcarb diet helped AT ALL. �So we may finally be turning the > corner. � They are cautious about promoting something that is still relatively new and relatively vague. If you ask those same 100 people what a low carb diet is you'll no doubt get 100 different answers. > Personally, I'm much better at compliance with diet than I am with > exercise. �But in realizing this I also get to say "Never mind the > wishy-washy plan given to the apathetic general public, tell me what > the optimal plan is." � You should get that from your doctor, preferably an endocrinologist, and not the ADA's website. And you should ask what the optimal plan is for Harold Groot. >If the optimal plan includes major points > ABCDEF, well, maybe I've got a particular problem with C and E (you [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > good - and certainly MUCH better than if I had waited until I had a > formal diagnosis of T2 diabetes to begin making changes. So I guess then I am wondering why you seem so put off by what the ADA is doing for people who actually have diabetes. Not beign critcial, but it seems like you aren't their target audience. > So remember - most doctors and groups like theADAset their > recommendations and targets for the lowest common denominator, the > mostly-apathetic low-compliance patients they see over and over. � Well, I would agree they cast a broader net, but not exactly as you have described it. How far into the site did you look? If you just checked out the first page of every category then it might explain why you describe them that way. >That > does NOT describe this group. �I may fail to go the =completely= > optimal route (that would involve more exercise and dropping more > weight), Congrats on the weight loss, that's a huge factor no pun intended.:) But to me, exercise is as important to someone with diabetes (and someone without) as medication and diet. The benefits of a good exercise plan pays huge dividends with one's health. >but what I =have= accomplished is =far= better than what the > standardADAadvice I was given ("No problem, just get tested again in > a few years") would have resulted in. The ADA site told you that? Or a doctor? Kurt >>but what I =3Dhave=3D accomplished is =3Dfar=3D better than what the >> standardADAadvice I was given ("No problem, just get tested again in >> a few years") would have resulted in. >The ADA site told you that? Or a doctor? >Kurt The doctor that diagnosed me as having IGT. >>>but what I =3Dhave=3D accomplished is =3Dfar=3D better than what the >>> standardADAadvice I was given ("No problem, just get tested again in >>> a few years") would have resulted in. >>The ADA site told you that? Or a doctor? >>Kurt > The doctor that diagnosed me as having IGT. In Feb of this year the ADA published an encouraging consensus statement about the treatment of IGT, in which they recommended that care should be taken to diagnose it, and that it ought be treated just like diabetes, because then there is a good chance of stopping the development of diabetes. They also noted that some "diabetic" complications develop in the IGT phase before things have bad enough to fit the current diabetes diagnosis crriteria, and that these can be prevented if IGT is treated like diabetes. http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/30/3/753 It seems to be taking them a little while, however, to incorporate that encouraging insight into their general educational materials, treatment guidelines, and so on. In other words, the ADA web site recommends that your IGT be treated exactly as you are treating it, but only if you know exactly where to look, because it isn't easy to find. What is easy to find on the ADA's web pages is their out of date advice which ignores their own consensus report. So even if your doctor had been right up to date with the ADA's web pages for the education of doctors and other medical professionals he wouldn't necessarily have come across this new stuff. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] >>but what I =3Dhave=3D accomplished is =3Dfar=3D better than what the >> standardADAadvice I was given ("No problem, just get tested again in >> a few years") would have resulted in. >The ADA site told you that? Or a doctor? >Kurt Follow-up: As I said in my last post, the doctor who made the diagnosis. It's probably worth noting that the threshold for diagnosis with "actual diabetes" was significantly higher back those 15+ years ago. So when I took that GTT and scored "above normal, below diabetes" (IGT), I had a more significant gap between my numbers and the diabetic threshold numbers of the day. Thus the "wait a few years and get tested again" approach may have made SOME sense back then. But without the lifestyle changes I made the odds are quite high that my numbers would only have gone higher. Today I have pretty much the same numbers as back then and I'm still in the IGT range - but the threshold for diagnosis with diabetes has been lowered at least twice during those years. So today I am considered a lot CLOSER to being diabetic then I was back then. But it's because the medical community has generally come around to MY way of thinking (that early action is better). Still, when my blood sugar was recently tested by a doctor at a random time (i.e. not pre-arranged fasting and not for diabetes, this was for something unrelated) and it came in higher than "normal", the doctor said "You probably ate something before the test. If this happens again a year from now you should get it looked at." Note that he didn't ask me if I actually HAD eaten anything the day of that test. He also did not ask me if I had eaten recently on the day we were discussing the earlier test results (which could lead to suggesting that I take another test immediately) nor did he suggest arranging for a fasting blood sugar test (let alone a GTT). Just "if it happens again a year from now..." I haven't been back to that doctor since. I have gone as low as 38..granted i likely wouldnt have gone into a comma but if i was driving death could be a likely result or in the shower or walking stairs..and heck it just feels bad! So yeah i dont get why some type ones wish to poo poo type twos..certain if left unchecked both result in death regardless.. KROM > T2s suffer the same complications from elevated bg over time that T1s do, > plus added damage from high serum insulin levels. No, we don't suffer the > extremes of lows and highs that T1s can experience, but that hardly makes > T2 an unserious disease. | > You are showing a remarkable lack of understanding of how at least | > some of us here were diagnosed, and the extremes we've been through. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] | suffer the extremes of lows and highs that T1s can experience, but that | hardly makes T2 an unserious disease. No T2 is not an unserious disease, but DKA is brought on as a direct cause of lack of insulin which is what Tim was talking about moreso. Extreme dangers that arise from direct result of being diabetic. Your MI may or may not be caused from a direct result of diabetes. Many folks have MI's and they aren't diabetic. But folks don't go into DKA when they aren't diabetic. And quite honestly, I'd rather have a MI any day of the week then have to go through DKA ever again. Unless you've been in DKA you have no idea the hell you go through.. you pray you'd die just to get relief. rk, t1 who's had her 4 bouts of DKA through no fault of her own > | > You are showing a remarkable lack of understanding of how at least > | > some of us here were diagnosed, and the extremes we've been through. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > may or may not be caused from a direct result of diabetes. Many folks > have MI's and they aren't diabetic. My MI occured after a year of uncontrolled diabetes with no family history of heart disease and at age 45, which is ridiculously young for a female. So yes, the conclusion was that it was diabetes-related, according to the cardiologist and heart surgeon anyways. > But folks don't go into DKA when > they aren't diabetic. And quite honestly, I'd rather have a MI any day of > the week then have to go through DKA ever again. Unless you've been > in DKA you have no idea the hell you go through.. you pray you'd die > just to get relief. Have an MI; be my guest. I personally did not find screaming and puking all night long much fun. But maybe you'll be lucky and have one of those "silent" ones. Or unlucky and be one of those who's first symptom of heart disease is sudden death. Not too "serious" at all. Let me know after you've had a bypass (the full kind where they split your sternum open, not the minimally-invasive kind) whether it was worse than DKA. So far, I'm six months into recovery and still in pain (though have been off narcotics for 3 months). I have no idea how long I'll be disabled, it still takes hours to recover from stuff like running to the grocery store. I get maybe 4-5 good hours a day and that's it. I'm just lucky I only have diabetes-lite instead of the "serious" kind. Signaturehttp://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/ | I'm just lucky I only have diabetes-lite instead of the "serious" kind. then I guess you have an "unserious disease" after all. Jackie Patti wrote in message <475e14b9$0$31572$470ef3ce@news.pa.net>... >> But folks don't go into DKA when >> they aren't diabetic. And quite honestly, I'd rather have a MI any day of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >your sternum open, not the minimally-invasive kind) whether it was worse >than DKA. Unbelievable, simply unbelievable that anyone would pooh pooh an MI, or even make a statement that they'd sooner have an MI, t |
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