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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / November 2007

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The Insanity of Bush Hatred

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Evelyn Ruut - 14 Nov 2007 19:54 GMT
Hating the president is almost as old as the republic itself. The
people, or various factions among them, have indulged in Clinton
hatred, Reagan hatred, Nixon hatred, LBJ hatred, FDR hatred, Lincoln
hatred, and John Adams hatred, to mention only the more extravagant
hatreds that we Americans have conceived for our presidents.

But Bush hatred is different. It's not that this time members of the
intellectual class have been swept away by passion and become votaries
of anger and loathing. Alas, intellectuals have always been prone to
employ their learning and fine words to whip up resentment and
demonize the competition. Bush hatred, however, is distinguished by
the pride intellectuals have taken in their hatred, openly endorsing
it as a virtue and enthusiastically proclaiming that their hatred is
not only a rational response to the president and his administration
but a mark of good moral hygiene.

Protesters scream as President Bush's motorcade drives by.
This distinguishing feature of Bush hatred was brought home to me on a
recent visit to Princeton University. I had been invited to appear on
a panel to debate the ideas in Princeton professor and American
Prospect editor Paul Starr's excellent new book, "Freedom's Power: The
True Force of Liberalism." To put in context Prof. Starr's grounding
of contemporary progressivism in the larger liberal tradition, I
recounted to the Princeton audience an exchange at a dinner I hosted
in Washington in June 2004 for several distinguished progressive
scholars, journalists, and policy analysts.

To get the conversation rolling at that D.C. dinner -- and perhaps
mischievously -- I wondered aloud whether Bush hatred had not made
rational discussion of politics in Washington all but impossible. One
guest responded in a loud, seething, in-your-face voice, "What's
irrational about hating George W. Bush?" His vehemence caused his
fellow progressives to gather around and lean in, like kids on a
playground who see a fight brewing.

Reluctant to see the dinner fall apart before drinks had been served,
I sought to ease the tension. I said, gently, that I rarely found
hatred a rational force in politics, but, who knows, perhaps this was
a special case. And then I tried to change the subject.

But my dinner companion wouldn't allow it. "No," he said, angrily.
"You started it. You make the case that it's not rational to hate
Bush." I looked around the table for help. Instead, I found faces keen
for my response. So, for several minutes, I held forth, suggesting
that however wrongheaded or harmful to the national interest the
president's policies may have seemed to my progressive colleagues,
hatred tended to cloud judgment, and therefore was a passion that a
citizen should not be proud of being in the grips of and should avoid
bringing to public debate. Propositions, one might have thought, that
would not be controversial among intellectuals devoted to thinking and
writing about politics.

But controversial they were. Finally, another guest, a man I had long
admired, an incisive thinker and a political moderate, cleared his
throat, and asked if he could interject. I welcomed his intervention,
confident that he would ease the tension by lending his authority in
support of the sole claim that I was defending, namely, that Bush
hatred subverted sound thinking. He cleared his throat for a second
time. Then, with all eyes on him, and measuring every word, he
proclaimed, "I . . . hate . . . the . . . way . . . Bush . . . talks."

And so, I told my Princeton audience, in the context of a Bush hatred
and a corollary contempt for conservatism so virulent that it had
addled the minds of many of our leading progressive intellectuals,
Prof. Starr deserved special recognition for keeping his head in his
analysis of liberalism and progressivism. Then I got on with my
prepared remarks.

But as at that D.C. dinner in late spring of 2004, so again in early
autumn 2007 at dinner following the Princeton panel, several of my
progressive colleagues seized upon my remarks against giving oneself
over to hatred. And they vigorously rejected the notion. Both a
professor of political theory and a nationally syndicated columnist
insisted that I was wrong to condemn hatred as a passion that impaired
political judgment. On the contrary, they argued, Bush hatred was
fully warranted considering his theft of the 2000 election in Florida
with the aid of the Supreme Court's decision in Bush v. Gore; his
politicization of national security by making the invasion of Iraq an
issue in the 2002 midterm elections; and his shredding of the
Constitution to authorize the torture of enemy combatants.

Of course, these very examples illustrate nothing so much as the
damage hatred inflicts on the intellect. Many of my colleagues at
Princeton that evening seemed not to have considered that in 2000 it
was Al Gore who shifted the election controversy to the courts by
filing a lawsuit challenging decisions made by local Florida county
election supervisors. Nor did many of my Princeton dinner companions
take into account that between the Florida Supreme Court and the U.S.
Supreme Court, 10 of 16 higher court judges -- five of whom were
Democratic appointees -- found equal protection flaws with the recount
scheme ordered by the intermediate Florida court. And they did not
appear to have pondered Judge Richard Posner's sensible observation,
much less themselves sensibly observe, that while indeed it was
strange to have the U.S. Supreme Court decide a presidential election,
it would have been even stranger for the election to have been decided
by the Florida Supreme Court.

As for the 2002 midterm elections, it is true that Mr. Bush took the
question of whether to use military force against Iraq to the voters,
placing many Democratic candidates that fall in awkward positions. But
in a liberal democracy, especially from a progressive point of view,
aren't questions of war and peace proper ones to put to the people --
as Democrats did successfully in 2006?

And lord knows the Bush administration has blundered in its handling
of legal issues that have arisen in the war on terror. But from the
common progressive denunciations you would never know that the Bush
administration has rejected torture as illegal. And you could easily
overlook that in our system of government the executive branch, which
has principal responsibility for defending the nation, is in wartime
bound to overreach -- especially when it confronts on a daily basis
intelligence reports that describe terrifying threats -- but that when
checked by the Supreme Court the Bush administration has, in
accordance with the system, promptly complied with the law.

In short, Bush hatred is not a rational response to actual Bush
perfidy. Rather, Bush hatred compels its progressive victims -- who
pride themselves on their sophistication and sensitivity to nuance --
to reduce complicated events and multilayered issues to simple matters
of good and evil. Like all hatred in politics, Bush hatred blinds to
the other sides of the argument, and constrains the hater to see a
monster instead of a political opponent.

Prof. Starr shows in "Freedom's Power" that tolerance, generosity, and
reasoned skepticism are hallmarks of the truly liberal spirit. His
analysis suggests that the problem with progressives who have
succumbed to Bush hatred is not their liberalism; it's their betrayal
of it. To be sure, Prof. Starr rejects Bush administration policies
and thinks conservatives have the wrong remedies for what ails America
today. Yet at the same time his analysis suggests, if not a cure for
those who have already succumbed, at least a recipe for inoculating
others against hating presidents to come.

The recipe consists above all in recognizing that constitutional
liberalism in America "is the common heritage of both modern
conservatives and modern liberals, as those terms are understood in
the Anglo-American world," writes Prof. Starr. We are divided not by
our commitment to the Constitution but by disagreements -- often, to
be sure, with a great deal of blood and treasure at stake -- over how
to defend that Constitution and secure its promise of liberty under
law.

The conflict between more conservative and more liberal or progressive
interpretations of the Constitution is as old as the document itself,
and a venerable source of the nation's strength. It is wonderful for
citizens to bring passion to it. Recognizing the common heritage that
provides the ground for so many of the disagreements between right and
left today will encourage both sides, if not to cherish their
opponents, at least to discipline their passions and make them an ally
of their reason.

Mr. Berkowitz is a senior fellow at Stanford University's Hoover
Institution and a professor at George Mason University School of Law.
Rita - 14 Nov 2007 20:34 GMT
>Hating the president is almost as old as the republic itself. The
>people, or various factions among them, have indulged in Clinton
>hatred, Reagan hatred, Nixon hatred, LBJ hatred, FDR hatred, Lincoln
>hatred, and John Adams hatred, to mention only the more extravagant
>hatreds that we Americans have conceived for our presidents.

Forgery by Capitalist Pig.
Capitalist Pig - 14 Nov 2007 21:56 GMT
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:54:25 -0800, Evelyn Ruut
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Forgery by Capitalist Pig.

What forgery Rita?  Read my name at the top. f.cking a.shole!
Rita - 14 Nov 2007 23:24 GMT
>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:54:25 -0800, Evelyn Ruut
>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>What forgery Rita?  Read my name at the top. f.cking a.shole!

From: Evelyn Ruut <evenlyn.ruut@gmail.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.activism.death-penalty,talk.politics.misc,soc.retirement,alt.support.diabetes
Subject: The Insanity of Bush Hatred
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:54:25 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 156
Message-ID: <1195070065.932612.321820@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 89.156.33.205

That posting host is you.  All your forgeries contain it in the
headers, as you well know.  So you posted the same article under
your screen name.  That proves nothing except that you are very
stupid as well as unprincipled.  Surely you did not really believe
for a minute that dumb ploy would work?
Rumpelstiltskin - 15 Nov 2007 01:32 GMT
>>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:54:25 -0800, Evelyn Ruut
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>your screen name.  That proves nothing except that you are very
>stupid as well as unprincipled.  

  Pig doesn't seem very smart, true, but the really
conspicuous thing about him of course is "unprincipled".

>Surely you did not really believe
>for a minute that dumb ploy would work?

  My guess is he just wanted people to start reading
it thinking it was by Evelyn, because he knows most
people killfile him.  I started reading it, since I have
pig killfiled so I didn't see his original post.
Evelyn Ruut - 15 Nov 2007 04:09 GMT
>>>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:54:25 -0800, Evelyn Ruut
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> people killfile him.  I started reading it, since I have
> pig killfiled so I didn't see his original post.

A rather vicarious way for Pig to gain readability, isn't it?

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Rumpelstiltskin - 15 Nov 2007 11:05 GMT
>>>>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:54:25 -0800, Evelyn Ruut
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
>A rather vicarious way for Pig to gain readability, isn't it?

  Not a successful way, except in a very small circle!
Earl Evleth - 14 Nov 2007 21:02 GMT
On 14/11/07 20:54, in article
1195070065.932612.321820@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com, "Evelyn Ruut"
<evenlyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote:

FORGED POSTING IN RUUT'S NAME
MÄck©® - 14 Nov 2007 21:08 GMT
who cares?  he is never going to be president again.

and was this the real Evelyn or another troll?  what's with all the
cross posting?

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

Evelyn Ruut - 14 Nov 2007 21:43 GMT
On 14 nov, 22:08, M?ck?? <I...@One.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:54:25 -0800, Evelyn Ruut
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
> .

I am the real Evelyn Ruut I always post from G mail. The other person
who posts using the name Evelyn Ruut is a forger who's elevator
obviously stops short of the top floor.

Best Regards

Evelyn
Evelyn Ruut - 14 Nov 2007 22:17 GMT
Below is a forgery.  Those who know me, will realize it immediately.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

On 14 nov, 22:08, MÄck©® <I...@One.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:54:25 -0800, Evelyn Ruut
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
> .

I am the real Evelyn Ruut I always post from G mail. The other person
who posts using the name Evelyn Ruut is a forger who's elevator
obviously stops short of the top floor.

Best Regards

Evelyn
Nicky - 14 Nov 2007 22:39 GMT
>Below is a forgery.  Those who know me, will realize it immediately.

Yup. You can spell : )

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6%  BMI 25
Alan S - 14 Nov 2007 22:41 GMT
>Below is a forgery.  Those who know me, will realize it immediately.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Evelyn

Note that the forger adds an extra "n" to the email addy as
evenlyn.ruut@gmail.com

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Psyllium, Fibre, Muesli and Nuts
Cheri - 15 Nov 2007 00:32 GMT
I knew that Evelyn, I really did. If the imposter kept it up, I was
going to ask her for the name of your dog that passed away. :-)

Evelyn Ruut wrote in message
<473b7414$0$19608$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>...
>Below is a forgery.  Those who know me, will realize it immediately.
>
>--
>Best Regards,
>
>Evelyn
Evelyn Ruut - 14 Nov 2007 22:18 GMT
Mack, it isn't me.   The same fellow who has been stalking Donna Evleth is
stalking me and forging posts.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

>
> who cares?  he is never going to be president again.
>
> and was this the real Evelyn or another troll?  what's with all the
> cross posting?
MÄck©® - 15 Nov 2007 04:03 GMT
>Mack, it isn't me.   The same fellow who has been stalking Donna Evleth is
>stalking me and forging posts.

if it's the inbred troll that calls itself capitalistpig it is posting
from a french ISP:
inetnum:         89.156.0.0 - 89.159.255.255
org:             ORG-LC2-RIPE
netname:         FR-CYBERCABLE-20050726
descr:           LYONNAISE COMMUNICATIONS
country:         FR
admin-c:         LC220-RIPE
tech-c:          LC224-RIPE
status:          ALLOCATED PA
mnt-by:          RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT
mnt-lower:       AS6678-MNT
mnt-routes:      AS6678-MNT
mnt-domains:     AS6678-MNT
source:          RIPE # Filtered
organisation:    ORG-LC2-RIPE
org-name:        LYONNAISE COMMUNICATIONS
org-type:        LIR
address:         6 rue Albert Einstein
address:         77420
address:         CHAMPS SUR MARNE
address:         France
phone:           +33 1 7001 5631
fax-no:          +33 1 7001 4562
admin-c:         LC220-RIPE
admin-c:         FH1435-RIPE
admin-c:         HL2711-RIPE
admin-c:         LC224-RIPE
mnt-ref:         AS6678-MNT
mnt-ref:         RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT
mnt-by:          RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT
source:          RIPE # Filtered
role:            Lyonnaise Communications Administrative Role Account
address:         NOOS - Lyonnaise Communications
address:         6 rue Albert Einstein
address:         77420 CHAMPS SUR MARNE
address:         FRANCE
abuse-mailbox:   abuse@noos.fr
admin-c:         HL2711-RIPE
admin-c:         FH1435-RIPE
tech-c:          LC224-RIPE
nic-hdl:         LC220-RIPE
mnt-by:          AS6678-MNT
source:          RIPE # Filtered
role:            Lyonnaise Communications Technical Role Account
address:         NOOS - Lyonnaise Communications
address:         6 rue Albert Einstein
address:         77420 CHAMPS SUR MARNE
address:         FRANCE
abuse-mailbox:   abuse@noos.fr
admin-c:         LC220-RIPE
tech-c:          HL2711-RIPE
tech-c:          FH1435-RIPE
nic-hdl:         LC224-RIPE
mnt-by:          AS6678-MNT
source:          RIPE # Filtered
% Information related to '89.156.0.0/14AS6678'
route:           89.156.0.0/14
descr:           UPC FR
origin:          AS6678
mnt-by:          UPCFR-MNT
source:          RIPE # Filtered
% Information related to '89.156.0.0/15AS6678'
route:           89.156.0.0/15
descr:           UPC FR
origin:          AS6678
mnt-by:          UPCFR-MNT
source:          RIPE # Filtered
% Information related to '89.156.0.0/16AS6678'
route:           89.156.0.0/16
descr:           UPC FR
origin:          AS6678
mnt-by:          UPCFR-MNT
source:          RIPE # Filtered
Evelyn Ruut - 15 Nov 2007 04:26 GMT
Hi Mack,

I don't quite know what is the best way to put a stop to this creep.   He
forges posts in my name, also a lady I don't know called Donna Evleth, and
another lady called Rita.    There may be more, but those are the ones I
know of.  He only chooses women to do this to, apparently.

Needless to say it is rather annoying.   Fortunately I have been frequenting
pretty much the same groups for years, and most of the regulars know I don't
post such drivel, so he hasn't fooled too many, but it is infantile, creepy,
and weird and I would really like to get him to stop through some legal
means if at all possible.   He lives in France, so I hear.
Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

>>Mack, it isn't me.   The same fellow who has been stalking Donna Evleth is
>>stalking me and forging posts.
[quoted text clipped - 73 lines]
> mnt-by:          UPCFR-MNT
> source:          RIPE # Filtered
Cheri - 15 Nov 2007 20:45 GMT
Evelyn Ruut wrote in message

<473bca70$0$4970$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>...
>Needless to say it is rather annoying.   Fortunately I have been frequenting
>pretty much the same groups for years, and most of the regulars know I don't
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Evelyn

I had some idiot doing that to me a few years ago in this newsgroup,
using really bad language etc., one of the good doctors friends, who
shall remain nameless, but he soon tired of it. It was very annoying
though.

Cheri
MÄck©® - 16 Nov 2007 05:28 GMT
>Hi Mack,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>and weird and I would really like to get him to stop through some legal
>means if at all possible.   He lives in France, so I hear.

first go to his ISPs web site and read their TOS agreement.  Then
quote it and forward with complete headers, copies of his stalking
posts and forgeries.  Then check your local laws in regards to
Internet stalking and quote them to his ISP and be civil to his ISP
when doing so.  Some companies will enforce their TOS agreements, some
won't.  

Signature

Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

DonnaB shallotpeel - 16 Nov 2007 07:16 GMT
In alt.support.diabetes on Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:28:10 -0500 in Msg.#

> first go to his ISPs web site and read their TOS agreement.  Then
> quote it and forward with complete headers, copies of his stalking
> posts and forgeries.  Then check your local laws in regards to
> Internet stalking and quote them to his ISP and be civil to his ISP
> when doing so.  Some companies will enforce their TOS agreements, some
> won't.  

You don't happen to know offhand what the giganews TOS have to say about
forgeries, do you? ... Yes, I have a forger in another NG.

Signature

DonnaB shallotpeel, T2 since June 06, USA, last HbA1c 5.3

"Every great wave of popular passion that rolls up on the prairies is dashed
to spray when it strikes the hard rocks of Manhattan." - H. L. Mencken,
'Totentanz', _Prejudices_, 1925

DonnaB shallotpeel - 17 Nov 2007 02:59 GMT
In alt.support.diabetes on Fri, 16 Nov 2007 02:16:14 -0500 in Msg.#
<rrgqj3pr35ksu2r81v6hb9jugabk7us8q4@4ax.com>, DonnaB shallotpeel
<shallotpeel@comcast.net>  wrote:

> In alt.support.diabetes on Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:28:10 -0500 in Msg.#
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> You don't happen to know offhand what the giganews TOS have to say about
> forgeries, do you? ... Yes, I have a forger in another NG.

Hey, talking to myself, but to tell you, whomever you are, dear reader, that
I looked it up myself. Thanks!

Signature

DonnaB shallotpeel, T2 since June 06, USA, last HbA1c 5.3

"I do not go outdoors. Not more than I have to. As far as I'm concerned, the
whole point of living in New York City is indoors. You want greenery? Order
the spinach." - David Rakoff

Evelyn Ruut - 16 Nov 2007 13:41 GMT
>>Hi Mack,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> when doing so.  Some companies will enforce their TOS agreements, some
> won't.

Mack, he's in France.   I don't read or speak French.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Frank t2 - 17 Nov 2007 07:03 GMT
"Evelyn Ruut" <evelyn.ruut@gmail.com> a écrit ...

> Mack, he's in France.   I don't read or speak French.

You didn't study French in school ?
Wes Groleau - 17 Nov 2007 19:33 GMT
> "MÄck©®" <IAM@One.org> wrote in message
>> first go to his ISPs web site and read their TOS agreement.  Then
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Mack, he's in France.   I don't read or speak French.

OK, skip reading their TOS and just write in English what you
object to.  I guarantee they have someone on staff who can understand
you message.  They may do something about it, they may not.

They could inform the jerk that you complained, but that's VERY unlikely,
and if they do, what of it?  It would be hard for the jerk to be
very much more of a jerk, eh?

Signature

Wes Groleau
Can we afford to be relevant?
http://www.cetesol.org/stevick.html

Julie Bove - 14 Nov 2007 23:01 GMT
> who cares?  he is never going to be president again.
>
> and was this the real Evelyn or another troll?  what's with all the
> cross posting?

It's not just any troll but a faker troll.
Evelyn Ruut - 14 Nov 2007 22:15 GMT
forgery below.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

>
> Hating the president is almost as old as the republic itself. The
[quoted text clipped - 150 lines]
> Mr. Berkowitz is a senior fellow at Stanford University's Hoover
> Institution and a professor at George Mason University School of Law.
Grandpa Chuck - 15 Nov 2007 00:44 GMT
Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the
wasteful emotions generated by hatred of Bush. You know Depak Chopra
wrote in "How to Know God" that all emotions are either based on
either love or fear. I like to think I don't really hate Bush. I just
can't abide the blunders he/Cheney/Rove have made since taking office
and the terrible waste of lives in Iraq. Is this hatred? It's as close
as I ever want to be.

>Hating the president is almost as old as the republic itself. The
>people, or various factions among them, have indulged in Clinton
[quoted text clipped - 149 lines]
>Mr. Berkowitz is a senior fellow at Stanford University's Hoover
>Institution and a professor at George Mason University School of Law.
Signature


Grandpa Chuck
  -ô¿ô-
    ~

Please grant me:
the serenity to accept the people I cannot change
the courage to change the one that I can
the wisdom to know that it is me

Alan S - 15 Nov 2007 03:02 GMT
>Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the
>wasteful emotions generated by hatred of Bush. You know Depak Chopra
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>and the terrible waste of lives in Iraq. Is this hatred? It's as close
>as I ever want to be.

Chuck, apart from the lack of an OT, did you read the
comments noting that this is from a troll/stalker, not
Evelyn?

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Psyllium, Fibre, Muesli and Nuts
Evelyn Ruut - 15 Nov 2007 04:19 GMT
Thank you Cheri and Alan for realizing that I am being forged here.
Same troll that is forging Donna Evleth's posts.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

>>Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the
>>wasteful emotions generated by hatred of Bush. You know Depak Chopra
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
> Psyllium, Fibre, Muesli and Nuts
Grandpa Chuck - 15 Nov 2007 05:46 GMT
>>Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the
>>wasteful emotions generated by hatred of Bush. You know Depak Chopra
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>comments noting that this is from a troll/stalker, not
>Evelyn?

Not until after I had replied to the original post.
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Grandpa Chuck
  -ô¿ô-
    ~

Please grant me:
the serenity to accept the people I cannot change
the courage to change the one that I can
the wisdom to know that it is me

Wes Groleau - 15 Nov 2007 03:50 GMT
> Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the

Well, the nutcase that posted it was most assuredly a nut case.

But I suspect that the words were stolen from the Berkowitz
mentioned at the end.

In any case, it was good reading, even if it was delivered by a
questionable messenger.

> either love or fear. I like to think I don't really hate Bush. I just

I'd _like_ to think you don't either.  But when you get started
on the topic, your posts approach the level of a Ted Rosenberg
assault on spammers.

Signature

Wes Groleau

   After the christening of his baby brother in church, Jason sobbed
   all the way home in the back seat of the car.  His father asked him
   three times what was wrong.  Finally, the boy replied, "That preacher
   said he wanted us brought up in a Christian home, and I wanted to
   stay with you guys."

Wes Groleau - 15 Nov 2007 04:06 GMT
> But I suspect that the words were stolen from the Berkowitz
> mentioned at the end.

And now I'm sure of it:

   http://www.opinionjournal.com/forms/printThis.html?id=110010861

Signature

Wes Groleau

   I've noticed lately that the paranoid fear of computers becoming
   intelligent and taking over the world has almost entirely disappeared
   from the common culture.  Near as I can tell, this coincides with
   the release of MS-DOS.
                                 -- Larry DeLuca

Grandpa Chuck - 15 Nov 2007 05:51 GMT
>> Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>on the topic, your posts approach the level of a Ted Rosenberg
>assault on spammers.

Oh, really?

I do honestly believe Bush is that absolute worst president this
country has ever seen and I will be very pleasantly surprised if he
doesn't attack Iran before he leaves office.

Also, I do believe he is guilty of treason and deserves to be
prosecuted.
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Grandpa Chuck
  -ô¿ô-
    ~

Please grant me:
the serenity to accept the people I cannot change
the courage to change the one that I can
the wisdom to know that it is me

rk - 15 Nov 2007 06:22 GMT
| >> Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the
| >
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
| Also, I do believe he is guilty of treason and deserves to be
| prosecuted.

nope, strung up by his tiny balls, having honey poured over them
and letting the bees pollinate on them... then charge $1 (cuz he aint
worth more then that) for the general public to come up and bitchslap
his sorry a.s for his stupidity!  by the time everyones finished, we'll
have
the national debt cut by at least half, i'm sure of it! sorry, just what
I'd
like to see done. :P
Grandpa Chuck - 15 Nov 2007 17:42 GMT
>| >> Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the
>| >
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>I'd
>like to see done. :P

Now that is funny - well deserved, but funny.

I'd rather see him, Cheney and Rove each confined in solitary
confinement far enough apart that they can't communicate and the walls
papered with pictures of the dead and maimed in Iraq to look at all
day and night with bright lights on 24/7 for the rest of their lives
and never allowed any visitors.
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Grandpa Chuck
  -ô¿ô-
    ~

Please grant me:
the serenity to accept the people I cannot change
the courage to change the one that I can
the wisdom to know that it is me

DarkSentinel - 15 Nov 2007 21:49 GMT
>>| >> Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the
>>| >
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> day and night with bright lights on 24/7 for the rest of their lives
> and never allowed any visitors.

Perhaps what we should do is something similar to what you stated, but let's
take it a bit further. I humbly suggest that we make use of the Ludovico
Technique espoused in "A Clockwork Orange". For those unfamiliar with this
technique, take a quick trip to this link...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludovico_technique

Now, here is where it gets better...:)

We take Clinton, the dipshits that blame the Bush administration for all the
terrorism and resulting actions, and the conspiracy theory ding-bats and put
them in a large theater. Force them all to watch looped footage of the
planes slamming into the towers and the Pentagon, footage of those people
that leaped to their death rather than be burned alive, footage of the
collapses, footage of the maimed and dead from attacks that day, and footage
of maimed and dead innocent victims from senseless terrorist attacks from
around the world.

I REALLY think that would be a MUCH better idea than the one YOU suggested,
don't you? :)

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Remember...the only stupid question is the one you DIDN'T ask.
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guys@consolidated.net - 16 Nov 2007 02:27 GMT
>>>| Grandpa Chuck
>>>|   -ô¿ô-

I may know a  much about Mr. Bush as most here.

Several lobbyists had opinions when he became governor of Texas.

Any president is just a name.  The country is run by a large
team.   The various elements are many and varied.

We must remember he was elected by popular vote and our
established system.

It is the game "You broke, you bought it".

Most politicians in the US do believe they serve the interest of the
country.    But most are very deep in special interest.  All of us
are into special interests.   Most of us would live in luxury
at the expense of others.

People with diabetes should have enough sense to know they
need efforts in a cure diabetes.

Unless some miracle happens they will need a lot of socialized
efforts in their life time.

The bright fellow that is killed in war is not going to do any
research.   If  a medical specialist  is working on the war efforts,
he will never work in legit medical research.

Some vote on labels.  Has it worked?

Only opportunists or fools vote without checking.

Once the election is over, it is too late.

You broke it, You bought it.

There is bull sh.t of all kinds. I will always
vote in my nterest.   I think our only hope
is socialized care and a huge increase in
scientific education.
Grandpa Chuck - 16 Nov 2007 02:45 GMT
>>>>| Grandpa Chuck
>>>>|   -ô¿ô-
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>We must remember he was elected by popular vote and our
>established system.

Not the first time, he wasn't at all. He was set in the office by
SCOTUS.

>It is the game "You broke, you bought it".
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>Once the election is over, it is too late.

Apparently not if you can get SCOTUS to step in and overrule the vote.

>You broke it, You bought it.
>
>There is bull sh.t of all kinds. I will always
>vote in my nterest.   I think our only hope
>is socialized care and a huge increase in
>scientific education.

I certainly agree with you there.
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    ~

Please grant me:
the serenity to accept the people I cannot change
the courage to change the one that I can
the wisdom to know that it is me

Grandpa Chuck - 16 Nov 2007 02:33 GMT
What kind of idiot still believes Iraq had anything at all to do with
what happened on 9/11?

I forgot to add that Bush/Cheney/Rove should also be water boarded
every few days since they claim it isn't torture.

As for Bill Clinton, he was the best president we have had since Harry
S. Truman.

>Perhaps what we should do is something similar to what you stated, but let's
>take it a bit further. I humbly suggest that we make use of the Ludovico
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>I REALLY think that would be a MUCH better idea than the one YOU suggested,
>don't you? :)
Signature


Grandpa Chuck
  -ô¿ô-
    ~

Please grant me:
the serenity to accept the people I cannot change
the courage to change the one that I can
the wisdom to know that it is me

DarkSentinel - 16 Nov 2007 08:18 GMT
> What kind of idiot still believes Iraq had anything at all to do with
> what happened on 9/11?

Um, maybe the same kind of idiot that believes that Bush is to blame for
everything that goes on. Besides, where in my post did I state Iraq had
anything to do with 9/11?

> I forgot to add that Bush/Cheney/Rove should also be water boarded
> every few days since they claim it isn't torture.

As so-called torture goes, water boarding is patty cakes compared to what
others do. As I have stated before, if ANYTHING, we are much to nice. There
comes a time when you have to fight fire with fire. Here's what should be
done. Take one of those old military crank phones. Put a lead on each of the
terrorist's testicles. Get a wrong answer, crank the phone. Hell, if it
would save the lives of American soldiers or citizens, I'd be right there
cranking the dial myself.

> As for Bill Clinton, he was the best president we have had since Harry
> S. Truman.

ROFL, you ARE kidding right? The only thing Billy was best at was sexual
harassment, cheating on his wife, and getting blow-jobs in the Oval Office
from interns...:)

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Remember...the only stupid question is the one you DIDN'T ask.
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Grandpa Chuck - 16 Nov 2007 18:24 GMT
>> What kind of idiot still believes Iraq had anything at all to do with
>> what happened on 9/11?
>
>Um, maybe the same kind of idiot that believes that Bush is to blame for
>everything that goes on.

Not everything, but certainly the Iraq fiasco and things such as the
terrible "Patriot Act".

>Besides, where in my post did I state Iraq had
>anything to do with 9/11?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>As so-called torture goes, water boarding is patty cakes compared to what
>others do.

So that excuses it? People have died while someone was playing that
"patty cake" on them.

> As I have stated before, if ANYTHING, we are much to nice. There
>comes a time when you have to fight fire with fire. Here's what should be
>done. Take one of those old military crank phones. Put a lead on each of the
>terrorist's testicles. Get a wrong answer, crank the phone. Hell, if it
>would save the lives of American soldiers or citizens, I'd be right there
>cranking the dial myself.

I would expect you to do such a thing in spite of the fact that ANY
torture goes against all American principles. Funny isn't it how so
many Neo cons are so willing to become barbarians themselves?

>> As for Bill Clinton, he was the best president we have had since Harry
>> S. Truman.
>
>ROFL, you ARE kidding right?

No, not at all. Look at such things as the economy during his term and
the budget surplus when he left office.

> The only thing Billy was best at was sexual
>harassment, cheating on his wife, and getting blow-jobs in the Oval Office
>from interns...:)

And just how many American soldiers died because of those things?
Maybe if Bush got a good blow-job under his desk once in awhile he
would not be so anxious to waste the lives of others.

Bill's biggest mistake was lying about Monica instead of simply
saying, "Those things are part of my private life and none of you
business" and then just not answering any questions about it.

Talking to Bush lemmings like you is a total waste of time, energy and
bandwidth. Get you head out of Bush's a.s and look around to see what
is really going on and the rights you have lost during his
administration.

Signature

Grandpa Chuck
  -ô¿ô-
    ~

Please grant me:
the serenity to accept the people I cannot change
the courage to change the one that I can
the wisdom to know that it is me

guys@consolidated.net - 16 Nov 2007 19:53 GMT
The whole point here is people are dying because of the actions
of American officials and no one gives a sh.t..  Many in the US are
temporarily rich and have no intent but to get richer.

As a prominent scientist told me  "IN a few years they all will be
dead and forgotten.   As long as diabetics support junk
data and fads  they will be narrow and buy crap. making
the predators  richer.

People with special interests and irrational dogma
can dominate others,  can escape the blood letting.  
Then  We will have wars and economic disasters.

It is not limited to any certain group   All wars have an element.  A
few trying to get more power and wealth.

I still think the big weapons are lurking around and may make war
unproductive.   There will be a surplus of burned flesh then

Many more will know how it is to live with compromised
immunity  from radiation.

These arguments we see here are all repeated zillions
of times each day.   .

Not a hell of a lot about more for research With money being
the prime objective get the job done..  As a few have said. Treatment
is profitable. A cure is not profitable.

The only hope is that most of the people get pissed  enough.

You do not just yell.  Find an item that will influence  others into
action,  Then needle them carefully.

Attacking directly usually backfires.  Opinions are not worth much.

With two bucks and my opinion I can still get a cup of coffee.

>>> What kind of idiot still believes Iraq had anything at all to do with
>>> what happened on 9/11?
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
>is really going on and the rights you have lost during his
>administration.
DarkSentinel - 18 Nov 2007 09:35 GMT
>>> What kind of idiot still believes Iraq had anything at all to do with
>>> what happened on 9/11?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Not everything, but certainly the Iraq fiasco and things such as the
> terrible "Patriot Act".

You REALLY should research the information before babbling about this. The
Iraq fiasco as you put it is directly attributable to this...

U.S. policy shifted in 1998 when the United States Congress passed and
President Bill Clinton signed the "Iraq Liberation Act" after Iraq
terminated its cooperation with U.N. weapons inspectors the preceding
August. The act made it official U.S. policy to "support efforts to remove
the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power..."

and as for the Patriot Act, you may wish to check this link out...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act

As you can see, the act was passed by wide margins by BOTH houses. which as
you know contains both Republican AND Democrats. You may also wish to note
that it was a bi-partisan group that introduced it. All Bush did was sign
the bill. Bush even went as far as to try and veto some of the provisions
contained in it. I assume you are old enough to remember the Schoolhouse
Rock episode "I'm Just A Bill", and how a bill becomes a law. The president
cannot arbitrarily say what is law, and what is not. That's why there are 3
branches of government...Executive, Legislative, and Judicial. It's called
checks and balances. Oh, and incidentally, SENATOR Clinton voted for this.
So saying that it is Bush's fault is not only disengenuous on your part, but
a downright falsehood. So get your information right before blithering
inanely about something you OBVIOUSLY know NOTHING about.

>>Besides, where in my post did I state Iraq had
>>anything to do with 9/11?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> So that excuses it? People have died while someone was playing that
> "patty cake" on them.

So???? Over 3000 people died during 9/11. I honestly have no sympathy or
remorse for people like that. They have killed or have caused other people,
possible fellow Americans to die. It's called justice. Why should I care
about those people when then could care less about us?

>> As I have stated before, if ANYTHING, we are much to nice. There
>>comes a time when you have to fight fire with fire. Here's what should be
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> torture goes against all American principles. Funny isn't it how so
> many Neo cons are so willing to become barbarians themselves?

And why are so many  left wing secular progressives so willing to remain
weak pacifistic cowards? Those so-called principles are what got us to this
point. The terrorists concluded that we lacked the courage and character to
defend ourselves and so they attacked us. Let me pose this question to you.
If your wife, mother, daughter, what have you, was being help by the
terrorists, and you knew that you could save them by torturing some lowlife,
would you do it? If you say no, you are either a liar, or a coward beyond
belief. They want to meet Allah so bad, let's help them out.

>>> As for Bill Clinton, he was the best president we have had since Harry
>>> S. Truman.

You babble about all the lives lost during Bush's watch. Truman killed
almost a 1/4 million people with he decision to use nuclear weapons. You may
wish to find a better comparison.

>>ROFL, you ARE kidding right?
>
> No, not at all. Look at such things as the economy during his term and
> the budget surplus when he left office.

Well lets see, these things ALSO occured during his tenure...

*Somalia, notably the Battle of Mogadishu
*Rwanda
*The embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania
*Yugoslavia
*Haiti
*Retaliatory strikes in Iraq
*Iran, signed Executive Order 12957 which implemented tight oil and trade
sanctions on Iran and made it illegal for American corporations or their
foreign subsidiaries to participate in any contract "for the financing of
the development of petroleum resources located in Iran." Issued Executive
Order 12959 which banned almost all trade between U.S. businesses and the
Iranian government with the exception of informational materials. A year
before, the President declared that Iran was a 'state sponsor of terrorism'
and a 'rogue state', marking the first time that an American President used
that term.
*North Korea and their nukes, Despite diplomatic pressure and repeated
warnings by Clinton,North Korea refused to allow the inspections and even
raised the prospect of war with South Korea, an ally of the United States.

Shall I continue? Yeah boyeeee, that's a REAL good track record there.

>> The only thing Billy was best at was sexual
>>harassment, cheating on his wife, and getting blow-jobs in the Oval Office
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Maybe if Bush got a good blow-job under his desk once in awhile he
> would not be so anxious to waste the lives of others.

See the items stated above, and tally up the deaths incurred by those.
Again, research the facts before spouting your inane drivel

> Bill's biggest mistake was lying about Monica instead of simply
> saying, "Those things are part of my private life and none of you
> business" and then just not answering any questions about it.

Let's see...cheating on his wife and then either lying or obfuscating the
truth from the citizens of this country...and you have the temerity to talk
about principles? You can't it both ways there chief. His BIGGEST mistake
was not have the cajones to take out Bin Laden when he had the chance. You
want to talk about treason....THERE is your example.

> Talking to Bush lemmings like you is a total waste of time, energy and
> bandwidth. Get you head out of Bush's a.s and look around to see what
> is really going on and the rights you have lost during his
> administration.

Lemming?? Sorry to burst your bubble there smacktard, but if anything, I
would be described as an independent. Maybe if you pulled your head of your
OWN ultra left wing social progressive a.s, and actually had an unbiased,
pro American, anti-rhetoric thought, you might actually find out how things
happen in the REAL world.

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Lerp - 16 Nov 2007 11:37 GMT
> What kind of idiot still believes Iraq had anything at all to do with
> what happened on 9/11?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> As for Bill Clinton, he was the best president we have had since Harry

The terrorists loved Clinton too. How many times were we attacked
under that presidency?
Wes Groleau - 16 Nov 2007 04:28 GMT
Sounds like

1. All three of you are examples of the irrationality in the article
   (though one is on the conservative side)

2. At least one of you doesn't understand much about bees or pollination

Signature

Wes Groleau
Heroes, Heritage, and History
http://UniGen.us/PGV

DarkSentinel - 16 Nov 2007 09:03 GMT
> Sounds like
>
> 1. All three of you are examples of the irrationality in the article
>    (though one is on the conservative side)

Wonder who that is...;)

> 2. At least one of you doesn't understand much about bees or pollination

Let's see, dems those little insect type critters that buzz around, and
sting you if you piss em off, right? They also fly to those purty plant
thingies, and get that dust stuff on their legs and body. Then fly to
another purty plant thingie, and puts that dust stuff in the purty plant
thingie's hoo-hoo which makes it grow, and helps make other purty plant
thingies. Doesn't that dust stuff also help make that really sticky sweet
stuff that people like so much?

;)

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Wes Groleau - 16 Nov 2007 23:45 GMT
> Let's see, dems those little insect type critters that buzz around, and
> sting you if you piss em off, right?  [etc]

Right.  They don't go looking for honey to pollinate in it.

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Wes Groleau

Even if you do learn to speak correct English,
whom are you going to speak it to?
                    -- Clarence Darrow

DarkSentinel - 15 Nov 2007 21:06 GMT
> | >> Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the
> | >
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> I'd
> like to see done. :P

Actually, that is exactly what I would like to see done to all the
ultra-left wing turds that try to blame Bush for everything that goes on.
For example, the 9/11 conspiracy theory idiots. Though in Rosie's case,
we'll do her by her boobs...:)

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Grandpa Chuck - 16 Nov 2007 02:46 GMT
I don't recall seeing you here before. Are you diabetic? What was you
last A1c?

I'm not saying you haven't been here before. I just don't recall
seeing your postings.
Signature


Grandpa Chuck
  -ô¿ô-
    ~

Please grant me:
the serenity to accept the people I cannot change
the courage to change the one that I can
the wisdom to know that it is me

DarkSentinel - 16 Nov 2007 08:51 GMT
> I don't recall seeing you here before. Are you diabetic? What was you
> last A1c?
>
> I'm not saying you haven't been here before. I just don't recall
> seeing your postings.

I've actually be in and out of the ng for a few years now. Have used this
nick, and my real name. As I stated in another thread, have been away a
while. Got divorced, moved twice, with one being across country, so posting
and keeping up with the ng kind of took a back seat for a while

As my sig line states, I was DX'd T2 in Oct. of 96. Currently taking
Metformin, Actos, and Amaryl. Unfortunately my last A1c was 11.1%....:(

Yeah I know. I let myself go because of the divorce and other issues. Even
wound up having a heart attack. But, I have found the most wonderful lady
who has given me a new purpose in life. I want to get well for the first
time in many years. I have become fastidious(almost anal in fact) about
taking my meds, checking my BG, and recording EVERYTHING down to the
minutest detail in the Co-Pilot software. Tomorrow(actually today...hehehe),
I have appts with an educator, nutritionist, and my GP. Going to see if we
should start on Byetta or insulin. I loathe needles so I MUST be
serious...lol Am also going to have Gastric Banding done. I tell you, it was
a hell of a lot easier putting it on, than taking it off.

Oddly enough however, I shocked my GP. Found out that I have the lowest
total cholesterol of anyone he has ever seen. Normal is around 120 or so,
mine was 79. Go figure.

As for the other posts. I may not agree with your views, and WILL let my
views be known in no uncertain terms. But I will, to the death, defend your
right to express them. Just remember that before resorting to personal
attacks, or name calling. Anybody that knows me, knows I have no
compunctions about responding in kind...:)

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Grandpa Chuck - 16 Nov 2007 18:30 GMT
>> I don't recall seeing you here before. Are you diabetic? What was you
>> last A1c?
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>attacks, or name calling. Anybody that knows me, knows I have no
>compunctions about responding in kind...:)

I am very happy you have your diabetes back on track.

As for you politics, I don't think you are seeing the terrible mess we
are in for what it is and how it got this way. But then opinions are
like noses: we all have on and most of them smell.
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Grandpa Chuck
  -ô¿ô-
    ~

Please grant me:
the serenity to accept the people I cannot change
the courage to change the one that I can
the wisdom to know that it is me

Frank t2 - 17 Nov 2007 02:18 GMT
"DarkSentinel" <darksentinel@comcast.nowantspam.net> a écrit ...
> "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote  ...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> personal attacks, or name calling. Anybody that knows me, knows I have no
> compunctions about responding in kind...:)

Hello, DS.

I am a newbie in here, having discovered this place and its wonderful
'advisors' only last July. I am totally sold on the need for places like it
for support (but, unlike you, I will NOT support to the death - especially
MY death - the absolute need).

Like you, I rediscovered a new person in my life, having lost my first wife
of 27 yrs in 2002 (VERY bad period for me... including alienation of my
daughter, 20 yrs now). Like you, I am fully dedicated to my new wife (as
it is only normal), and my case is that I am retired and am looking to
rebuilding
my life afresh.  Part of this is addresssed in our project ... a baby at
year end.
This is so significant for me that I abandoned the idea of losing weight by
banding surgery as it is always a risk to go through surgery and at my age,
(63, in December), I decided that I must try much harder to lose weight and
find a stronger health with my doctors help.

I noted that you are considering 'gastric banding' (as was I in July). Well,
I don't know your age, but advice given to me by my urologist (I will be
63 in Dec 4), was to look to 'quality of life' rather than 'quantity of
life'
and having given it much reflection, I have decided to try much harder on
non-invasive techniques, which is one reason why I am here.

I would be interested in what thoughts lead you to your conclusions (just
in case I have missed any significant aspects in my thoughts), concerning
this operation (gastric banding) and if it will help, offer you this link
showing the procedure.  http://surgery-sugery.com/lapband-surgery.php

Looking forward to your reply,

Frank
(Englishman in France)
Frank t2 - 17 Nov 2007 07:13 GMT
Sorry, daughter is now 30 yrs old.

> "DarkSentinel" <darksentinel@comcast.nowantspam.net> a écrit ...
>> "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote  ...
[quoted text clipped - 76 lines]
> Frank
> (Englishman in France)
DarkSentinel - 18 Nov 2007 10:00 GMT
> "DarkSentinel" <darksentinel@comcast.nowantspam.net> a écrit ...
>> "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote  ...
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> for support (but, unlike you, I will NOT support to the death - especially
> MY death - the absolute need).

Unlike some I am VERY patriotic, and believe in the free expression of ideas
and viewpoints. I may disagree with the spuds, but I support the right to
express them.

> Like you, I rediscovered a new person in my life, having lost my first
> wife
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> this operation (gastric banding) and if it will help, offer you this link
> showing the procedure.  http://surgery-sugery.com/lapband-surgery.php

Unfortunately, I am on disability. Car wreck, spinal injury, you get the
picture. I can walk, but not for any period of time or distance. Having
worked basically since I was 12, used to 80-90 work weeks, being sedentary
now drives me bonkers. The only exercise I really get is I practice Tai Chi
when my back allows it. It is low impact, and is a great stress reliever.
Especially when coupled with meditation which I also practice.

At 43, the surgery makes sense for me. Not only will it help with my
diabetes, it will also help with my back. Even at 6'3"(was 6'4" BEFORE the
wreck), 355lbs is NOT my ideal weight. Discussions with my GP, Endo,
Educator, and Nutritionist have brought us all to the conclusion that this
would be the best option in my case. The biggest determining factor for me
is that it is reversible. I have some friends that have had the bypass and
have heard all the horror stories. This procedure will give me the boost I
need to help me get down to a heathier weight.

Signature

T2 - Oct. '96
Remember...the only stupid question is the one you DIDN'T ask.
You know what to do with the addy, to reply by email

> Looking forward to your reply,
>
> Frank
> (Englishman in France)
Frank t2 - 15 Nov 2007 21:16 GMT
"rk" <rksays@haha.com> a écrit ...

> | >> Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the
> | >
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> I'd
> like to see done. :P

I just hope you are planning to accept credit cards ...

Imagine Warren Buffet and Bill Gates standing in line ...
DarkSentinel - 15 Nov 2007 21:00 GMT
>>> Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the
>>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> country has ever seen and I will be very pleasantly surprised if he
> doesn't attack Iran before he leaves office.

Um, I think that Carter holds THAT distinction, followed closely by Clinton.
As for Iran, Carter is directly responsible for that state of affairs.
Because of HIM, we have an extremist theocracy with a deep antipathy towards
the US, that supports terrorism, and wants to develop nuclear capabilty. The
question here for anyone with a modicum of intelligence is why SHOULDN'T
Iran be attacked? However, my guess is that the Israeli's will take care of
it as they have done in the past.

Though Bush HAS made some mistakes, it should be remembered that he is only
having to clean up the mess left by his predecessor.

> Also, I do believe he is guilty of treason and deserves to be
> prosecuted.

Treason? Oh, you mean like Clinton, who failed to take out Bin Laden when he
had the chance? If Bush is guilty of anything, it is of being TOO reserved
in his response to terrorism and the like. I AM interested however in how
you define the treason he is guilty of.

Signature

T2 - Oct. '96
Remember...the only stupid question is the one you DIDN'T ask.
You know what to do with the addy, to reply by email

Lerp - 16 Nov 2007 02:04 GMT
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 03:50:37 GMT, Wes Groleau
>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Bush will attack Iran. However, the democrats would too. It does not
matter
who the pres is, Iran will be attacked. Will Hilary, Barak, or Mitt do
the job
rather than Bush?
MÄck©® - 15 Nov 2007 04:06 GMT
>Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the
>wasteful emotions generated by hatred of Bush. You know Depak Chopra
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>and the terrible waste of lives in Iraq. Is this hatred? It's as close
>as I ever want to be.

you got taken by a forger from France, thank their  ISP"

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Evelyn Ruut - 15 Nov 2007 04:17 GMT
Chuck, my dear friend, I didn't post that.   It was a guy named Steven Bach,
also posts as "Capitalist Pig" who has been trolling and stalking me and
several other people, posting things under my name.   It's the same guy who
is trolling Donna Evleth.   If you read the header carefully, you will
notice he forges my posting address with an extra letter in it.

Everyone who knows me knows I cannot stand Bush, and you know it as well.
That is why this jerk posts stuff under my name, because he has no
credibility of his own.
Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

> Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the
> wasteful emotions generated by hatred of Bush. You know Depak Chopra
[quoted text clipped - 157 lines]
>>Mr. Berkowitz is a senior fellow at Stanford University's Hoover
>>Institution and a professor at George Mason University School of Law.
Grandpa Chuck - 15 Nov 2007 05:49 GMT
>Chuck, my dear friend, I didn't post that.   It was a guy named Steven Bach,
>also posts as "Capitalist Pig" who has been trolling and stalking me and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>That is why this jerk posts stuff under my name, because he has no
>credibility of his own.

Yeah, I found that out pretty darned fast after I posted an answer.
The fact that it was cross-posted should have alerted me right off the
bat.

I will pay closer attention after this.
Signature


Grandpa Chuck
  -ô¿ô-
    ~

Please grant me:
the serenity to accept the people I cannot change
the courage to change the one that I can
the wisdom to know that it is me

krom - 15 Nov 2007 06:47 GMT
Is bush a diabetic?

"Evelyn Ruut" <evenlyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote
<buncha politcal gobbety gook>
Evelyn Ruut - 15 Nov 2007 13:06 GMT
Krom, you have replied to a troll.  Please take note.
I don't involve in conversations about this stuff on this newsgroup.
Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

> Is bush a diabetic?
>
> "Evelyn Ruut" <evenlyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote
> <buncha politcal gobbety gook>
Evelyn Ruut - 15 Nov 2007 22:22 GMT
> Krom, you have replied to a troll.  Please take note.
> I don't involve in conversations about this stuff on this newsgroup.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

I am the real Evelyn Ruut and I post from gmail. The OTHER woman who
calls herself Evelyn Ruut is kooky bitter old woman who fantasizes
that people are interested in the adolescent drivel she posts. Don't
be fooled, read the headers.

Best Regards

Evelyn Ruut
Alan S - 15 Nov 2007 22:44 GMT
>> > "Evelyn Ruut" <evenlyn.r...@gmail.com> wrote
>> > <buncha politcal gobbety gook>- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Evelyn Ruut

May I suggest to those who use a newsreader able to do so,
killfile evenlyn.ruut@gmail.com

Note the extra "n" in evenlyn.

Into the kf it goes.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Psyllium, Fibre, Muesli and Nuts
Evelyn Ruut - 15 Nov 2007 23:29 GMT
More forgery.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

> Krom, you have replied to a troll.  Please take note.
> I don't involve in conversations about this stuff on this newsgroup.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

I am the real Evelyn Ruut and I post from gmail. The OTHER woman who
calls herself Evelyn Ruut is kooky bitter old woman who fantasizes
that people are interested in the adolescent drivel she posts. Don't
be fooled, read the headers.

Best Regards

Evelyn Ruut
krom - 16 Nov 2007 05:06 GMT
i know it was the fake i still thought my coment was funny..lol

To get zen..i post because i can..hehehe

KROM

> Krom, you have replied to a troll.  Please take note.
> I don't involve in conversations about this stuff on this newsgroup.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

I am the real Evelyn Ruut and I post from gmail. The OTHER woman who
calls herself Evelyn Ruut is kooky bitter old woman who fantasizes
that people are interested in the adolescent drivel she posts. Don't
be fooled, read the headers.

Best Regards

Evelyn Ruut
 
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