Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / November 2007
The Insanity of Bush Hatred
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Evelyn Ruut - 14 Nov 2007 19:54 GMT Hating the president is almost as old as the republic itself. The people, or various factions among them, have indulged in Clinton hatred, Reagan hatred, Nixon hatred, LBJ hatred, FDR hatred, Lincoln hatred, and John Adams hatred, to mention only the more extravagant hatreds that we Americans have conceived for our presidents.
But Bush hatred is different. It's not that this time members of the intellectual class have been swept away by passion and become votaries of anger and loathing. Alas, intellectuals have always been prone to employ their learning and fine words to whip up resentment and demonize the competition. Bush hatred, however, is distinguished by the pride intellectuals have taken in their hatred, openly endorsing it as a virtue and enthusiastically proclaiming that their hatred is not only a rational response to the president and his administration but a mark of good moral hygiene.
Protesters scream as President Bush's motorcade drives by. This distinguishing feature of Bush hatred was brought home to me on a recent visit to Princeton University. I had been invited to appear on a panel to debate the ideas in Princeton professor and American Prospect editor Paul Starr's excellent new book, "Freedom's Power: The True Force of Liberalism." To put in context Prof. Starr's grounding of contemporary progressivism in the larger liberal tradition, I recounted to the Princeton audience an exchange at a dinner I hosted in Washington in June 2004 for several distinguished progressive scholars, journalists, and policy analysts.
To get the conversation rolling at that D.C. dinner -- and perhaps mischievously -- I wondered aloud whether Bush hatred had not made rational discussion of politics in Washington all but impossible. One guest responded in a loud, seething, in-your-face voice, "What's irrational about hating George W. Bush?" His vehemence caused his fellow progressives to gather around and lean in, like kids on a playground who see a fight brewing.
Reluctant to see the dinner fall apart before drinks had been served, I sought to ease the tension. I said, gently, that I rarely found hatred a rational force in politics, but, who knows, perhaps this was a special case. And then I tried to change the subject.
But my dinner companion wouldn't allow it. "No," he said, angrily. "You started it. You make the case that it's not rational to hate Bush." I looked around the table for help. Instead, I found faces keen for my response. So, for several minutes, I held forth, suggesting that however wrongheaded or harmful to the national interest the president's policies may have seemed to my progressive colleagues, hatred tended to cloud judgment, and therefore was a passion that a citizen should not be proud of being in the grips of and should avoid bringing to public debate. Propositions, one might have thought, that would not be controversial among intellectuals devoted to thinking and writing about politics.
But controversial they were. Finally, another guest, a man I had long admired, an incisive thinker and a political moderate, cleared his throat, and asked if he could interject. I welcomed his intervention, confident that he would ease the tension by lending his authority in support of the sole claim that I was defending, namely, that Bush hatred subverted sound thinking. He cleared his throat for a second time. Then, with all eyes on him, and measuring every word, he proclaimed, "I . . . hate . . . the . . . way . . . Bush . . . talks."
And so, I told my Princeton audience, in the context of a Bush hatred and a corollary contempt for conservatism so virulent that it had addled the minds of many of our leading progressive intellectuals, Prof. Starr deserved special recognition for keeping his head in his analysis of liberalism and progressivism. Then I got on with my prepared remarks.
But as at that D.C. dinner in late spring of 2004, so again in early autumn 2007 at dinner following the Princeton panel, several of my progressive colleagues seized upon my remarks against giving oneself over to hatred. And they vigorously rejected the notion. Both a professor of political theory and a nationally syndicated columnist insisted that I was wrong to condemn hatred as a passion that impaired political judgment. On the contrary, they argued, Bush hatred was fully warranted considering his theft of the 2000 election in Florida with the aid of the Supreme Court's decision in Bush v. Gore; his politicization of national security by making the invasion of Iraq an issue in the 2002 midterm elections; and his shredding of the Constitution to authorize the torture of enemy combatants.
Of course, these very examples illustrate nothing so much as the damage hatred inflicts on the intellect. Many of my colleagues at Princeton that evening seemed not to have considered that in 2000 it was Al Gore who shifted the election controversy to the courts by filing a lawsuit challenging decisions made by local Florida county election supervisors. Nor did many of my Princeton dinner companions take into account that between the Florida Supreme Court and the U.S. Supreme Court, 10 of 16 higher court judges -- five of whom were Democratic appointees -- found equal protection flaws with the recount scheme ordered by the intermediate Florida court. And they did not appear to have pondered Judge Richard Posner's sensible observation, much less themselves sensibly observe, that while indeed it was strange to have the U.S. Supreme Court decide a presidential election, it would have been even stranger for the election to have been decided by the Florida Supreme Court.
As for the 2002 midterm elections, it is true that Mr. Bush took the question of whether to use military force against Iraq to the voters, placing many Democratic candidates that fall in awkward positions. But in a liberal democracy, especially from a progressive point of view, aren't questions of war and peace proper ones to put to the people -- as Democrats did successfully in 2006?
And lord knows the Bush administration has blundered in its handling of legal issues that have arisen in the war on terror. But from the common progressive denunciations you would never know that the Bush administration has rejected torture as illegal. And you could easily overlook that in our system of government the executive branch, which has principal responsibility for defending the nation, is in wartime bound to overreach -- especially when it confronts on a daily basis intelligence reports that describe terrifying threats -- but that when checked by the Supreme Court the Bush administration has, in accordance with the system, promptly complied with the law.
In short, Bush hatred is not a rational response to actual Bush perfidy. Rather, Bush hatred compels its progressive victims -- who pride themselves on their sophistication and sensitivity to nuance -- to reduce complicated events and multilayered issues to simple matters of good and evil. Like all hatred in politics, Bush hatred blinds to the other sides of the argument, and constrains the hater to see a monster instead of a political opponent.
Prof. Starr shows in "Freedom's Power" that tolerance, generosity, and reasoned skepticism are hallmarks of the truly liberal spirit. His analysis suggests that the problem with progressives who have succumbed to Bush hatred is not their liberalism; it's their betrayal of it. To be sure, Prof. Starr rejects Bush administration policies and thinks conservatives have the wrong remedies for what ails America today. Yet at the same time his analysis suggests, if not a cure for those who have already succumbed, at least a recipe for inoculating others against hating presidents to come.
The recipe consists above all in recognizing that constitutional liberalism in America "is the common heritage of both modern conservatives and modern liberals, as those terms are understood in the Anglo-American world," writes Prof. Starr. We are divided not by our commitment to the Constitution but by disagreements -- often, to be sure, with a great deal of blood and treasure at stake -- over how to defend that Constitution and secure its promise of liberty under law.
The conflict between more conservative and more liberal or progressive interpretations of the Constitution is as old as the document itself, and a venerable source of the nation's strength. It is wonderful for citizens to bring passion to it. Recognizing the common heritage that provides the ground for so many of the disagreements between right and left today will encourage both sides, if not to cherish their opponents, at least to discipline their passions and make them an ally of their reason.
Mr. Berkowitz is a senior fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution and a professor at George Mason University School of Law.
Rita - 14 Nov 2007 20:34 GMT >Hating the president is almost as old as the republic itself. The >people, or various factions among them, have indulged in Clinton >hatred, Reagan hatred, Nixon hatred, LBJ hatred, FDR hatred, Lincoln >hatred, and John Adams hatred, to mention only the more extravagant >hatreds that we Americans have conceived for our presidents. Forgery by Capitalist Pig.
Capitalist Pig - 14 Nov 2007 21:56 GMT > On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:54:25 -0800, Evelyn Ruut > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Forgery by Capitalist Pig. What forgery Rita? Read my name at the top. f.cking a.shole!
Rita - 14 Nov 2007 23:24 GMT >> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:54:25 -0800, Evelyn Ruut >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >What forgery Rita? Read my name at the top. f.cking a.shole! From: Evelyn Ruut <evenlyn.ruut@gmail.com> Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty,talk.politics.misc,soc.retirement,alt.support.diabetes Subject: The Insanity of Bush Hatred Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:54:25 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 156 Message-ID: <1195070065.932612.321820@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 89.156.33.205
That posting host is you. All your forgeries contain it in the headers, as you well know. So you posted the same article under your screen name. That proves nothing except that you are very stupid as well as unprincipled. Surely you did not really believe for a minute that dumb ploy would work?
Rumpelstiltskin - 15 Nov 2007 01:32 GMT >>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:54:25 -0800, Evelyn Ruut >>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >your screen name. That proves nothing except that you are very >stupid as well as unprincipled. Pig doesn't seem very smart, true, but the really conspicuous thing about him of course is "unprincipled".
>Surely you did not really believe >for a minute that dumb ploy would work? My guess is he just wanted people to start reading it thinking it was by Evelyn, because he knows most people killfile him. I started reading it, since I have pig killfiled so I didn't see his original post.
Evelyn Ruut - 15 Nov 2007 04:09 GMT >>>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:54:25 -0800, Evelyn Ruut >>>> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > people killfile him. I started reading it, since I have > pig killfiled so I didn't see his original post. A rather vicarious way for Pig to gain readability, isn't it?
 Signature Best Regards,
Evelyn
Rumpelstiltskin - 15 Nov 2007 11:05 GMT >>>>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:54:25 -0800, Evelyn Ruut >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > >A rather vicarious way for Pig to gain readability, isn't it? Not a successful way, except in a very small circle!
Earl Evleth - 14 Nov 2007 21:02 GMT On 14/11/07 20:54, in article 1195070065.932612.321820@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com, "Evelyn Ruut" <evenlyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote:
FORGED POSTING IN RUUT'S NAME
MÄck©® - 14 Nov 2007 21:08 GMT who cares? he is never going to be president again.
and was this the real Evelyn or another troll? what's with all the cross posting?
 Signature Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt
(o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins
DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... .
Evelyn Ruut - 14 Nov 2007 21:43 GMT On 14 nov, 22:08, M?ck?? <I...@One.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:54:25 -0800, Evelyn Ruut > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... > . I am the real Evelyn Ruut I always post from G mail. The other person who posts using the name Evelyn Ruut is a forger who's elevator obviously stops short of the top floor.
Best Regards
Evelyn
Evelyn Ruut - 14 Nov 2007 22:17 GMT Below is a forgery. Those who know me, will realize it immediately.
 Signature Best Regards,
Evelyn
On 14 nov, 22:08, MÄck©® <I...@One.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:54:25 -0800, Evelyn Ruut > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... > . I am the real Evelyn Ruut I always post from G mail. The other person who posts using the name Evelyn Ruut is a forger who's elevator obviously stops short of the top floor.
Best Regards
Evelyn
Nicky - 14 Nov 2007 22:39 GMT >Below is a forgery. Those who know me, will realize it immediately. Yup. You can spell : )
Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25
Alan S - 14 Nov 2007 22:41 GMT >Below is a forgery. Those who know me, will realize it immediately. > >Best Regards, > >Evelyn Note that the forger adds an extra "n" to the email addy as evenlyn.ruut@gmail.com
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Psyllium, Fibre, Muesli and Nuts
Cheri - 15 Nov 2007 00:32 GMT I knew that Evelyn, I really did. If the imposter kept it up, I was going to ask her for the name of your dog that passed away. :-)
Evelyn Ruut wrote in message <473b7414$0$19608$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>...
>Below is a forgery. Those who know me, will realize it immediately. > >-- >Best Regards, > >Evelyn Evelyn Ruut - 14 Nov 2007 22:18 GMT Mack, it isn't me. The same fellow who has been stalking Donna Evleth is stalking me and forging posts.
 Signature Best Regards,
Evelyn
> > who cares? he is never going to be president again. > > and was this the real Evelyn or another troll? what's with all the > cross posting? MÄck©® - 15 Nov 2007 04:03 GMT >Mack, it isn't me. The same fellow who has been stalking Donna Evleth is >stalking me and forging posts. if it's the inbred troll that calls itself capitalistpig it is posting from a french ISP: inetnum: 89.156.0.0 - 89.159.255.255 org: ORG-LC2-RIPE netname: FR-CYBERCABLE-20050726 descr: LYONNAISE COMMUNICATIONS country: FR admin-c: LC220-RIPE tech-c: LC224-RIPE status: ALLOCATED PA mnt-by: RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT mnt-lower: AS6678-MNT mnt-routes: AS6678-MNT mnt-domains: AS6678-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered organisation: ORG-LC2-RIPE org-name: LYONNAISE COMMUNICATIONS org-type: LIR address: 6 rue Albert Einstein address: 77420 address: CHAMPS SUR MARNE address: France phone: +33 1 7001 5631 fax-no: +33 1 7001 4562 admin-c: LC220-RIPE admin-c: FH1435-RIPE admin-c: HL2711-RIPE admin-c: LC224-RIPE mnt-ref: AS6678-MNT mnt-ref: RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT mnt-by: RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered role: Lyonnaise Communications Administrative Role Account address: NOOS - Lyonnaise Communications address: 6 rue Albert Einstein address: 77420 CHAMPS SUR MARNE address: FRANCE abuse-mailbox: abuse@noos.fr admin-c: HL2711-RIPE admin-c: FH1435-RIPE tech-c: LC224-RIPE nic-hdl: LC220-RIPE mnt-by: AS6678-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered role: Lyonnaise Communications Technical Role Account address: NOOS - Lyonnaise Communications address: 6 rue Albert Einstein address: 77420 CHAMPS SUR MARNE address: FRANCE abuse-mailbox: abuse@noos.fr admin-c: LC220-RIPE tech-c: HL2711-RIPE tech-c: FH1435-RIPE nic-hdl: LC224-RIPE mnt-by: AS6678-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered % Information related to '89.156.0.0/14AS6678' route: 89.156.0.0/14 descr: UPC FR origin: AS6678 mnt-by: UPCFR-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered % Information related to '89.156.0.0/15AS6678' route: 89.156.0.0/15 descr: UPC FR origin: AS6678 mnt-by: UPCFR-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered % Information related to '89.156.0.0/16AS6678' route: 89.156.0.0/16 descr: UPC FR origin: AS6678 mnt-by: UPCFR-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered
Evelyn Ruut - 15 Nov 2007 04:26 GMT Hi Mack,
I don't quite know what is the best way to put a stop to this creep. He forges posts in my name, also a lady I don't know called Donna Evleth, and another lady called Rita. There may be more, but those are the ones I know of. He only chooses women to do this to, apparently.
Needless to say it is rather annoying. Fortunately I have been frequenting pretty much the same groups for years, and most of the regulars know I don't post such drivel, so he hasn't fooled too many, but it is infantile, creepy, and weird and I would really like to get him to stop through some legal means if at all possible. He lives in France, so I hear.
 Signature Best Regards,
Evelyn
>>Mack, it isn't me. The same fellow who has been stalking Donna Evleth is >>stalking me and forging posts. [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > mnt-by: UPCFR-MNT > source: RIPE # Filtered Cheri - 15 Nov 2007 20:45 GMT Evelyn Ruut wrote in message
<473bca70$0$4970$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>...
>Needless to say it is rather annoying. Fortunately I have been frequenting >pretty much the same groups for years, and most of the regulars know I don't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Evelyn I had some idiot doing that to me a few years ago in this newsgroup, using really bad language etc., one of the good doctors friends, who shall remain nameless, but he soon tired of it. It was very annoying though.
Cheri
MÄck©® - 16 Nov 2007 05:28 GMT >Hi Mack, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >and weird and I would really like to get him to stop through some legal >means if at all possible. He lives in France, so I hear. first go to his ISPs web site and read their TOS agreement. Then quote it and forward with complete headers, copies of his stalking posts and forgeries. Then check your local laws in regards to Internet stalking and quote them to his ISP and be civil to his ISP when doing so. Some companies will enforce their TOS agreements, some won't.
 Signature Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/ http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt
(o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins
DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... .
DonnaB shallotpeel - 16 Nov 2007 07:16 GMT In alt.support.diabetes on Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:28:10 -0500 in Msg.#
> first go to his ISPs web site and read their TOS agreement. Then > quote it and forward with complete headers, copies of his stalking > posts and forgeries. Then check your local laws in regards to > Internet stalking and quote them to his ISP and be civil to his ISP > when doing so. Some companies will enforce their TOS agreements, some > won't. You don't happen to know offhand what the giganews TOS have to say about forgeries, do you? ... Yes, I have a forger in another NG.
 Signature DonnaB shallotpeel, T2 since June 06, USA, last HbA1c 5.3
"Every great wave of popular passion that rolls up on the prairies is dashed to spray when it strikes the hard rocks of Manhattan." - H. L. Mencken, 'Totentanz', _Prejudices_, 1925
DonnaB shallotpeel - 17 Nov 2007 02:59 GMT In alt.support.diabetes on Fri, 16 Nov 2007 02:16:14 -0500 in Msg.# <rrgqj3pr35ksu2r81v6hb9jugabk7us8q4@4ax.com>, DonnaB shallotpeel <shallotpeel@comcast.net> wrote:
> In alt.support.diabetes on Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:28:10 -0500 in Msg.# > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > You don't happen to know offhand what the giganews TOS have to say about > forgeries, do you? ... Yes, I have a forger in another NG. Hey, talking to myself, but to tell you, whomever you are, dear reader, that I looked it up myself. Thanks!
 Signature DonnaB shallotpeel, T2 since June 06, USA, last HbA1c 5.3
"I do not go outdoors. Not more than I have to. As far as I'm concerned, the whole point of living in New York City is indoors. You want greenery? Order the spinach." - David Rakoff
Evelyn Ruut - 16 Nov 2007 13:41 GMT >>Hi Mack, >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > when doing so. Some companies will enforce their TOS agreements, some > won't. Mack, he's in France. I don't read or speak French.
 Signature Best Regards,
Evelyn
Frank t2 - 17 Nov 2007 07:03 GMT "Evelyn Ruut" <evelyn.ruut@gmail.com> a écrit ...
> Mack, he's in France. I don't read or speak French. You didn't study French in school ?
Wes Groleau - 17 Nov 2007 19:33 GMT > "MÄck©®" <IAM@One.org> wrote in message >> first go to his ISPs web site and read their TOS agreement. Then [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Mack, he's in France. I don't read or speak French. OK, skip reading their TOS and just write in English what you object to. I guarantee they have someone on staff who can understand you message. They may do something about it, they may not.
They could inform the jerk that you complained, but that's VERY unlikely, and if they do, what of it? It would be hard for the jerk to be very much more of a jerk, eh?
 Signature Wes Groleau Can we afford to be relevant? http://www.cetesol.org/stevick.html
Julie Bove - 14 Nov 2007 23:01 GMT > who cares? he is never going to be president again. > > and was this the real Evelyn or another troll? what's with all the > cross posting? It's not just any troll but a faker troll.
Evelyn Ruut - 14 Nov 2007 22:15 GMT forgery below.
 Signature Best Regards,
Evelyn
> > Hating the president is almost as old as the republic itself. The [quoted text clipped - 150 lines] > Mr. Berkowitz is a senior fellow at Stanford University's Hoover > Institution and a professor at George Mason University School of Law. Grandpa Chuck - 15 Nov 2007 00:44 GMT Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the wasteful emotions generated by hatred of Bush. You know Depak Chopra wrote in "How to Know God" that all emotions are either based on either love or fear. I like to think I don't really hate Bush. I just can't abide the blunders he/Cheney/Rove have made since taking office and the terrible waste of lives in Iraq. Is this hatred? It's as close as I ever want to be.
>Hating the president is almost as old as the republic itself. The >people, or various factions among them, have indulged in Clinton [quoted text clipped - 149 lines] >Mr. Berkowitz is a senior fellow at Stanford University's Hoover >Institution and a professor at George Mason University School of Law.  Signature
Grandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~
Please grant me: the serenity to accept the people I cannot change the courage to change the one that I can the wisdom to know that it is me
Alan S - 15 Nov 2007 03:02 GMT >Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the >wasteful emotions generated by hatred of Bush. You know Depak Chopra [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >and the terrible waste of lives in Iraq. Is this hatred? It's as close >as I ever want to be. Chuck, apart from the lack of an OT, did you read the comments noting that this is from a troll/stalker, not Evelyn?
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Psyllium, Fibre, Muesli and Nuts
Evelyn Ruut - 15 Nov 2007 04:19 GMT Thank you Cheri and Alan for realizing that I am being forged here. Same troll that is forging Donna Evleth's posts.
 Signature Best Regards,
Evelyn
>>Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the >>wasteful emotions generated by hatred of Bush. You know Depak Chopra [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com > Psyllium, Fibre, Muesli and Nuts Grandpa Chuck - 15 Nov 2007 05:46 GMT >>Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the >>wasteful emotions generated by hatred of Bush. You know Depak Chopra [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >comments noting that this is from a troll/stalker, not >Evelyn? Not until after I had replied to the original post.
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Grandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~
Please grant me: the serenity to accept the people I cannot change the courage to change the one that I can the wisdom to know that it is me
Wes Groleau - 15 Nov 2007 03:50 GMT > Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the Well, the nutcase that posted it was most assuredly a nut case.
But I suspect that the words were stolen from the Berkowitz mentioned at the end.
In any case, it was good reading, even if it was delivered by a questionable messenger.
> either love or fear. I like to think I don't really hate Bush. I just I'd _like_ to think you don't either. But when you get started on the topic, your posts approach the level of a Ted Rosenberg assault on spammers.
 Signature Wes Groleau
After the christening of his baby brother in church, Jason sobbed all the way home in the back seat of the car. His father asked him three times what was wrong. Finally, the boy replied, "That preacher said he wanted us brought up in a Christian home, and I wanted to stay with you guys."
Wes Groleau - 15 Nov 2007 04:06 GMT > But I suspect that the words were stolen from the Berkowitz > mentioned at the end. And now I'm sure of it:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/forms/printThis.html?id=110010861
 Signature Wes Groleau
I've noticed lately that the paranoid fear of computers becoming intelligent and taking over the world has almost entirely disappeared from the common culture. Near as I can tell, this coincides with the release of MS-DOS. -- Larry DeLuca
Grandpa Chuck - 15 Nov 2007 05:51 GMT >> Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >on the topic, your posts approach the level of a Ted Rosenberg >assault on spammers. Oh, really?
I do honestly believe Bush is that absolute worst president this country has ever seen and I will be very pleasantly surprised if he doesn't attack Iran before he leaves office.
Also, I do believe he is guilty of treason and deserves to be prosecuted.
 Signature
Grandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~
Please grant me: the serenity to accept the people I cannot change the courage to change the one that I can the wisdom to know that it is me
rk - 15 Nov 2007 06:22 GMT | >> Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the | > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] | Also, I do believe he is guilty of treason and deserves to be | prosecuted. nope, strung up by his tiny balls, having honey poured over them and letting the bees pollinate on them... then charge $1 (cuz he aint worth more then that) for the general public to come up and bitchslap his sorry a.s for his stupidity! by the time everyones finished, we'll have the national debt cut by at least half, i'm sure of it! sorry, just what I'd like to see done. :P
Grandpa Chuck - 15 Nov 2007 17:42 GMT >| >> Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the >| > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >I'd >like to see done. :P Now that is funny - well deserved, but funny.
I'd rather see him, Cheney and Rove each confined in solitary confinement far enough apart that they can't communicate and the walls papered with pictures of the dead and maimed in Iraq to look at all day and night with bright lights on 24/7 for the rest of their lives and never allowed any visitors.
 Signature
Grandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~
Please grant me: the serenity to accept the people I cannot change the courage to change the one that I can the wisdom to know that it is me
DarkSentinel - 15 Nov 2007 21:49 GMT >>| >> Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the >>| > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > day and night with bright lights on 24/7 for the rest of their lives > and never allowed any visitors. Perhaps what we should do is something similar to what you stated, but let's take it a bit further. I humbly suggest that we make use of the Ludovico Technique espoused in "A Clockwork Orange". For those unfamiliar with this technique, take a quick trip to this link...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludovico_technique
Now, here is where it gets better...:)
We take Clinton, the dipshits that blame the Bush administration for all the terrorism and resulting actions, and the conspiracy theory ding-bats and put them in a large theater. Force them all to watch looped footage of the planes slamming into the towers and the Pentagon, footage of those people that leaped to their death rather than be burned alive, footage of the collapses, footage of the maimed and dead from attacks that day, and footage of maimed and dead innocent victims from senseless terrorist attacks from around the world.
I REALLY think that would be a MUCH better idea than the one YOU suggested, don't you? :)
 Signature T2 - Oct. '96 Remember...the only stupid question is the one you DIDN'T ask. You know what to do with the addy, to reply by email
guys@consolidated.net - 16 Nov 2007 02:27 GMT >>>| Grandpa Chuck >>>| -ô¿ô- I may know a much about Mr. Bush as most here.
Several lobbyists had opinions when he became governor of Texas.
Any president is just a name. The country is run by a large team. The various elements are many and varied.
We must remember he was elected by popular vote and our established system.
It is the game "You broke, you bought it".
Most politicians in the US do believe they serve the interest of the country. But most are very deep in special interest. All of us are into special interests. Most of us would live in luxury at the expense of others.
People with diabetes should have enough sense to know they need efforts in a cure diabetes.
Unless some miracle happens they will need a lot of socialized efforts in their life time.
The bright fellow that is killed in war is not going to do any research. If a medical specialist is working on the war efforts, he will never work in legit medical research.
Some vote on labels. Has it worked?
Only opportunists or fools vote without checking.
Once the election is over, it is too late.
You broke it, You bought it.
There is bull sh.t of all kinds. I will always vote in my nterest. I think our only hope is socialized care and a huge increase in scientific education.
Grandpa Chuck - 16 Nov 2007 02:45 GMT >>>>| Grandpa Chuck >>>>| -ô¿ô- [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >We must remember he was elected by popular vote and our >established system. Not the first time, he wasn't at all. He was set in the office by SCOTUS.
>It is the game "You broke, you bought it". > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Once the election is over, it is too late. Apparently not if you can get SCOTUS to step in and overrule the vote.
>You broke it, You bought it. > >There is bull sh.t of all kinds. I will always >vote in my nterest. I think our only hope >is socialized care and a huge increase in >scientific education. I certainly agree with you there.
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Grandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~
Please grant me: the serenity to accept the people I cannot change the courage to change the one that I can the wisdom to know that it is me
Grandpa Chuck - 16 Nov 2007 02:33 GMT What kind of idiot still believes Iraq had anything at all to do with what happened on 9/11?
I forgot to add that Bush/Cheney/Rove should also be water boarded every few days since they claim it isn't torture.
As for Bill Clinton, he was the best president we have had since Harry S. Truman.
>Perhaps what we should do is something similar to what you stated, but let's >take it a bit further. I humbly suggest that we make use of the Ludovico [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >I REALLY think that would be a MUCH better idea than the one YOU suggested, >don't you? :)  Signature
Grandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~
Please grant me: the serenity to accept the people I cannot change the courage to change the one that I can the wisdom to know that it is me
DarkSentinel - 16 Nov 2007 08:18 GMT > What kind of idiot still believes Iraq had anything at all to do with > what happened on 9/11? Um, maybe the same kind of idiot that believes that Bush is to blame for everything that goes on. Besides, where in my post did I state Iraq had anything to do with 9/11?
> I forgot to add that Bush/Cheney/Rove should also be water boarded > every few days since they claim it isn't torture. As so-called torture goes, water boarding is patty cakes compared to what others do. As I have stated before, if ANYTHING, we are much to nice. There comes a time when you have to fight fire with fire. Here's what should be done. Take one of those old military crank phones. Put a lead on each of the terrorist's testicles. Get a wrong answer, crank the phone. Hell, if it would save the lives of American soldiers or citizens, I'd be right there cranking the dial myself.
> As for Bill Clinton, he was the best president we have had since Harry > S. Truman. ROFL, you ARE kidding right? The only thing Billy was best at was sexual harassment, cheating on his wife, and getting blow-jobs in the Oval Office from interns...:)
 Signature T2 - Oct. '96 Remember...the only stupid question is the one you DIDN'T ask. You know what to do with the addy, to reply by email
Grandpa Chuck - 16 Nov 2007 18:24 GMT >> What kind of idiot still believes Iraq had anything at all to do with >> what happened on 9/11? > >Um, maybe the same kind of idiot that believes that Bush is to blame for >everything that goes on. Not everything, but certainly the Iraq fiasco and things such as the terrible "Patriot Act".
>Besides, where in my post did I state Iraq had >anything to do with 9/11? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >As so-called torture goes, water boarding is patty cakes compared to what >others do. So that excuses it? People have died while someone was playing that "patty cake" on them.
> As I have stated before, if ANYTHING, we are much to nice. There >comes a time when you have to fight fire with fire. Here's what should be >done. Take one of those old military crank phones. Put a lead on each of the >terrorist's testicles. Get a wrong answer, crank the phone. Hell, if it >would save the lives of American soldiers or citizens, I'd be right there >cranking the dial myself. I would expect you to do such a thing in spite of the fact that ANY torture goes against all American principles. Funny isn't it how so many Neo cons are so willing to become barbarians themselves?
>> As for Bill Clinton, he was the best president we have had since Harry >> S. Truman. > >ROFL, you ARE kidding right? No, not at all. Look at such things as the economy during his term and the budget surplus when he left office.
> The only thing Billy was best at was sexual >harassment, cheating on his wife, and getting blow-jobs in the Oval Office >from interns...:) And just how many American soldiers died because of those things? Maybe if Bush got a good blow-job under his desk once in awhile he would not be so anxious to waste the lives of others.
Bill's biggest mistake was lying about Monica instead of simply saying, "Those things are part of my private life and none of you business" and then just not answering any questions about it.
Talking to Bush lemmings like you is a total waste of time, energy and bandwidth. Get you head out of Bush's a.s and look around to see what is really going on and the rights you have lost during his administration.
 Signature Grandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~
Please grant me: the serenity to accept the people I cannot change the courage to change the one that I can the wisdom to know that it is me
guys@consolidated.net - 16 Nov 2007 19:53 GMT The whole point here is people are dying because of the actions of American officials and no one gives a sh.t.. Many in the US are temporarily rich and have no intent but to get richer.
As a prominent scientist told me "IN a few years they all will be dead and forgotten. As long as diabetics support junk data and fads they will be narrow and buy crap. making the predators richer.
People with special interests and irrational dogma can dominate others, can escape the blood letting. Then We will have wars and economic disasters.
It is not limited to any certain group All wars have an element. A few trying to get more power and wealth.
I still think the big weapons are lurking around and may make war unproductive. There will be a surplus of burned flesh then
Many more will know how it is to live with compromised immunity from radiation.
These arguments we see here are all repeated zillions of times each day. .
Not a hell of a lot about more for research With money being the prime objective get the job done.. As a few have said. Treatment is profitable. A cure is not profitable.
The only hope is that most of the people get pissed enough.
You do not just yell. Find an item that will influence others into action, Then needle them carefully.
Attacking directly usually backfires. Opinions are not worth much.
With two bucks and my opinion I can still get a cup of coffee.
>>> What kind of idiot still believes Iraq had anything at all to do with >>> what happened on 9/11? [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >is really going on and the rights you have lost during his >administration. DarkSentinel - 18 Nov 2007 09:35 GMT >>> What kind of idiot still believes Iraq had anything at all to do with >>> what happened on 9/11? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Not everything, but certainly the Iraq fiasco and things such as the > terrible "Patriot Act". You REALLY should research the information before babbling about this. The Iraq fiasco as you put it is directly attributable to this...
U.S. policy shifted in 1998 when the United States Congress passed and President Bill Clinton signed the "Iraq Liberation Act" after Iraq terminated its cooperation with U.N. weapons inspectors the preceding August. The act made it official U.S. policy to "support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power..."
and as for the Patriot Act, you may wish to check this link out...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act
As you can see, the act was passed by wide margins by BOTH houses. which as you know contains both Republican AND Democrats. You may also wish to note that it was a bi-partisan group that introduced it. All Bush did was sign the bill. Bush even went as far as to try and veto some of the provisions contained in it. I assume you are old enough to remember the Schoolhouse Rock episode "I'm Just A Bill", and how a bill becomes a law. The president cannot arbitrarily say what is law, and what is not. That's why there are 3 branches of government...Executive, Legislative, and Judicial. It's called checks and balances. Oh, and incidentally, SENATOR Clinton voted for this. So saying that it is Bush's fault is not only disengenuous on your part, but a downright falsehood. So get your information right before blithering inanely about something you OBVIOUSLY know NOTHING about.
>>Besides, where in my post did I state Iraq had >>anything to do with 9/11? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > So that excuses it? People have died while someone was playing that > "patty cake" on them. So???? Over 3000 people died during 9/11. I honestly have no sympathy or remorse for people like that. They have killed or have caused other people, possible fellow Americans to die. It's called justice. Why should I care about those people when then could care less about us?
>> As I have stated before, if ANYTHING, we are much to nice. There >>comes a time when you have to fight fire with fire. Here's what should be [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > torture goes against all American principles. Funny isn't it how so > many Neo cons are so willing to become barbarians themselves? And why are so many left wing secular progressives so willing to remain weak pacifistic cowards? Those so-called principles are what got us to this point. The terrorists concluded that we lacked the courage and character to defend ourselves and so they attacked us. Let me pose this question to you. If your wife, mother, daughter, what have you, was being help by the terrorists, and you knew that you could save them by torturing some lowlife, would you do it? If you say no, you are either a liar, or a coward beyond belief. They want to meet Allah so bad, let's help them out.
>>> As for Bill Clinton, he was the best president we have had since Harry >>> S. Truman. You babble about all the lives lost during Bush's watch. Truman killed almost a 1/4 million people with he decision to use nuclear weapons. You may wish to find a better comparison.
>>ROFL, you ARE kidding right? > > No, not at all. Look at such things as the economy during his term and > the budget surplus when he left office. Well lets see, these things ALSO occured during his tenure...
*Somalia, notably the Battle of Mogadishu *Rwanda *The embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania *Yugoslavia *Haiti *Retaliatory strikes in Iraq *Iran, signed Executive Order 12957 which implemented tight oil and trade sanctions on Iran and made it illegal for American corporations or their foreign subsidiaries to participate in any contract "for the financing of the development of petroleum resources located in Iran." Issued Executive Order 12959 which banned almost all trade between U.S. businesses and the Iranian government with the exception of informational materials. A year before, the President declared that Iran was a 'state sponsor of terrorism' and a 'rogue state', marking the first time that an American President used that term. *North Korea and their nukes, Despite diplomatic pressure and repeated warnings by Clinton,North Korea refused to allow the inspections and even raised the prospect of war with South Korea, an ally of the United States.
Shall I continue? Yeah boyeeee, that's a REAL good track record there.
>> The only thing Billy was best at was sexual >>harassment, cheating on his wife, and getting blow-jobs in the Oval Office [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Maybe if Bush got a good blow-job under his desk once in awhile he > would not be so anxious to waste the lives of others. See the items stated above, and tally up the deaths incurred by those. Again, research the facts before spouting your inane drivel
> Bill's biggest mistake was lying about Monica instead of simply > saying, "Those things are part of my private life and none of you > business" and then just not answering any questions about it. Let's see...cheating on his wife and then either lying or obfuscating the truth from the citizens of this country...and you have the temerity to talk about principles? You can't it both ways there chief. His BIGGEST mistake was not have the cajones to take out Bin Laden when he had the chance. You want to talk about treason....THERE is your example.
> Talking to Bush lemmings like you is a total waste of time, energy and > bandwidth. Get you head out of Bush's a.s and look around to see what > is really going on and the rights you have lost during his > administration. Lemming?? Sorry to burst your bubble there smacktard, but if anything, I would be described as an independent. Maybe if you pulled your head of your OWN ultra left wing social progressive a.s, and actually had an unbiased, pro American, anti-rhetoric thought, you might actually find out how things happen in the REAL world.
 Signature T2 - Oct. '96 Remember...the only stupid question is the one you DIDN'T ask. You know what to do with the addy, to reply by email
Lerp - 16 Nov 2007 11:37 GMT > What kind of idiot still believes Iraq had anything at all to do with > what happened on 9/11? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > As for Bill Clinton, he was the best president we have had since Harry The terrorists loved Clinton too. How many times were we attacked under that presidency?
Wes Groleau - 16 Nov 2007 04:28 GMT Sounds like
1. All three of you are examples of the irrationality in the article (though one is on the conservative side)
2. At least one of you doesn't understand much about bees or pollination
 Signature Wes Groleau Heroes, Heritage, and History http://UniGen.us/PGV
DarkSentinel - 16 Nov 2007 09:03 GMT > Sounds like > > 1. All three of you are examples of the irrationality in the article > (though one is on the conservative side) Wonder who that is...;)
> 2. At least one of you doesn't understand much about bees or pollination Let's see, dems those little insect type critters that buzz around, and sting you if you piss em off, right? They also fly to those purty plant thingies, and get that dust stuff on their legs and body. Then fly to another purty plant thingie, and puts that dust stuff in the purty plant thingie's hoo-hoo which makes it grow, and helps make other purty plant thingies. Doesn't that dust stuff also help make that really sticky sweet stuff that people like so much?
;)
 Signature T2 - Oct. '96 Remember...the only stupid question is the one you DIDN'T ask. You know what to do with the addy, to reply by email
Wes Groleau - 16 Nov 2007 23:45 GMT > Let's see, dems those little insect type critters that buzz around, and > sting you if you piss em off, right? [etc] Right. They don't go looking for honey to pollinate in it.
 Signature Wes Groleau
Even if you do learn to speak correct English, whom are you going to speak it to? -- Clarence Darrow
DarkSentinel - 15 Nov 2007 21:06 GMT > | >> Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the > | > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > I'd > like to see done. :P Actually, that is exactly what I would like to see done to all the ultra-left wing turds that try to blame Bush for everything that goes on. For example, the 9/11 conspiracy theory idiots. Though in Rosie's case, we'll do her by her boobs...:)
 Signature T2 - Oct. '96 Remember...the only stupid question is the one you DIDN'T ask. You know what to do with the addy, to reply by email
Grandpa Chuck - 16 Nov 2007 02:46 GMT I don't recall seeing you here before. Are you diabetic? What was you last A1c?
I'm not saying you haven't been here before. I just don't recall seeing your postings.
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Grandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~
Please grant me: the serenity to accept the people I cannot change the courage to change the one that I can the wisdom to know that it is me
DarkSentinel - 16 Nov 2007 08:51 GMT > I don't recall seeing you here before. Are you diabetic? What was you > last A1c? > > I'm not saying you haven't been here before. I just don't recall > seeing your postings. I've actually be in and out of the ng for a few years now. Have used this nick, and my real name. As I stated in another thread, have been away a while. Got divorced, moved twice, with one being across country, so posting and keeping up with the ng kind of took a back seat for a while
As my sig line states, I was DX'd T2 in Oct. of 96. Currently taking Metformin, Actos, and Amaryl. Unfortunately my last A1c was 11.1%....:(
Yeah I know. I let myself go because of the divorce and other issues. Even wound up having a heart attack. But, I have found the most wonderful lady who has given me a new purpose in life. I want to get well for the first time in many years. I have become fastidious(almost anal in fact) about taking my meds, checking my BG, and recording EVERYTHING down to the minutest detail in the Co-Pilot software. Tomorrow(actually today...hehehe), I have appts with an educator, nutritionist, and my GP. Going to see if we should start on Byetta or insulin. I loathe needles so I MUST be serious...lol Am also going to have Gastric Banding done. I tell you, it was a hell of a lot easier putting it on, than taking it off.
Oddly enough however, I shocked my GP. Found out that I have the lowest total cholesterol of anyone he has ever seen. Normal is around 120 or so, mine was 79. Go figure.
As for the other posts. I may not agree with your views, and WILL let my views be known in no uncertain terms. But I will, to the death, defend your right to express them. Just remember that before resorting to personal attacks, or name calling. Anybody that knows me, knows I have no compunctions about responding in kind...:)
 Signature T2 - Oct. '96 Remember...the only stupid question is the one you DIDN'T ask. You know what to do with the addy, to reply by email
Grandpa Chuck - 16 Nov 2007 18:30 GMT >> I don't recall seeing you here before. Are you diabetic? What was you >> last A1c? [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >attacks, or name calling. Anybody that knows me, knows I have no >compunctions about responding in kind...:) I am very happy you have your diabetes back on track.
As for you politics, I don't think you are seeing the terrible mess we are in for what it is and how it got this way. But then opinions are like noses: we all have on and most of them smell.
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Grandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~
Please grant me: the serenity to accept the people I cannot change the courage to change the one that I can the wisdom to know that it is me
Frank t2 - 17 Nov 2007 02:18 GMT "DarkSentinel" <darksentinel@comcast.nowantspam.net> a écrit ...
> "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote ... >> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > personal attacks, or name calling. Anybody that knows me, knows I have no > compunctions about responding in kind...:) Hello, DS.
I am a newbie in here, having discovered this place and its wonderful 'advisors' only last July. I am totally sold on the need for places like it for support (but, unlike you, I will NOT support to the death - especially MY death - the absolute need).
Like you, I rediscovered a new person in my life, having lost my first wife of 27 yrs in 2002 (VERY bad period for me... including alienation of my daughter, 20 yrs now). Like you, I am fully dedicated to my new wife (as it is only normal), and my case is that I am retired and am looking to rebuilding my life afresh. Part of this is addresssed in our project ... a baby at year end. This is so significant for me that I abandoned the idea of losing weight by banding surgery as it is always a risk to go through surgery and at my age, (63, in December), I decided that I must try much harder to lose weight and find a stronger health with my doctors help.
I noted that you are considering 'gastric banding' (as was I in July). Well, I don't know your age, but advice given to me by my urologist (I will be 63 in Dec 4), was to look to 'quality of life' rather than 'quantity of life' and having given it much reflection, I have decided to try much harder on non-invasive techniques, which is one reason why I am here.
I would be interested in what thoughts lead you to your conclusions (just in case I have missed any significant aspects in my thoughts), concerning this operation (gastric banding) and if it will help, offer you this link showing the procedure. http://surgery-sugery.com/lapband-surgery.php
Looking forward to your reply,
Frank (Englishman in France)
Frank t2 - 17 Nov 2007 07:13 GMT Sorry, daughter is now 30 yrs old.
> "DarkSentinel" <darksentinel@comcast.nowantspam.net> a écrit ... >> "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote ... [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > Frank > (Englishman in France) DarkSentinel - 18 Nov 2007 10:00 GMT > "DarkSentinel" <darksentinel@comcast.nowantspam.net> a écrit ... >> "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote ... [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > for support (but, unlike you, I will NOT support to the death - especially > MY death - the absolute need). Unlike some I am VERY patriotic, and believe in the free expression of ideas and viewpoints. I may disagree with the spuds, but I support the right to express them.
> Like you, I rediscovered a new person in my life, having lost my first > wife [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > this operation (gastric banding) and if it will help, offer you this link > showing the procedure. http://surgery-sugery.com/lapband-surgery.php Unfortunately, I am on disability. Car wreck, spinal injury, you get the picture. I can walk, but not for any period of time or distance. Having worked basically since I was 12, used to 80-90 work weeks, being sedentary now drives me bonkers. The only exercise I really get is I practice Tai Chi when my back allows it. It is low impact, and is a great stress reliever. Especially when coupled with meditation which I also practice.
At 43, the surgery makes sense for me. Not only will it help with my diabetes, it will also help with my back. Even at 6'3"(was 6'4" BEFORE the wreck), 355lbs is NOT my ideal weight. Discussions with my GP, Endo, Educator, and Nutritionist have brought us all to the conclusion that this would be the best option in my case. The biggest determining factor for me is that it is reversible. I have some friends that have had the bypass and have heard all the horror stories. This procedure will give me the boost I need to help me get down to a heathier weight.
 Signature T2 - Oct. '96 Remember...the only stupid question is the one you DIDN'T ask. You know what to do with the addy, to reply by email
> Looking forward to your reply, > > Frank > (Englishman in France) Frank t2 - 15 Nov 2007 21:16 GMT "rk" <rksays@haha.com> a écrit ...
> | >> Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the > | > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > I'd > like to see done. :P I just hope you are planning to accept credit cards ...
Imagine Warren Buffet and Bill Gates standing in line ...
DarkSentinel - 15 Nov 2007 21:00 GMT >>> Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > country has ever seen and I will be very pleasantly surprised if he > doesn't attack Iran before he leaves office. Um, I think that Carter holds THAT distinction, followed closely by Clinton. As for Iran, Carter is directly responsible for that state of affairs. Because of HIM, we have an extremist theocracy with a deep antipathy towards the US, that supports terrorism, and wants to develop nuclear capabilty. The question here for anyone with a modicum of intelligence is why SHOULDN'T Iran be attacked? However, my guess is that the Israeli's will take care of it as they have done in the past.
Though Bush HAS made some mistakes, it should be remembered that he is only having to clean up the mess left by his predecessor.
> Also, I do believe he is guilty of treason and deserves to be > prosecuted. Treason? Oh, you mean like Clinton, who failed to take out Bin Laden when he had the chance? If Bush is guilty of anything, it is of being TOO reserved in his response to terrorism and the like. I AM interested however in how you define the treason he is guilty of.
 Signature T2 - Oct. '96 Remember...the only stupid question is the one you DIDN'T ask. You know what to do with the addy, to reply by email
Lerp - 16 Nov 2007 02:04 GMT > On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 03:50:37 GMT, Wes Groleau > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Bush will attack Iran. However, the democrats would too. It does not matter who the pres is, Iran will be attacked. Will Hilary, Barak, or Mitt do the job rather than Bush?
MÄck©® - 15 Nov 2007 04:06 GMT >Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the >wasteful emotions generated by hatred of Bush. You know Depak Chopra [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >and the terrible waste of lives in Iraq. Is this hatred? It's as close >as I ever want to be. you got taken by a forger from France, thank their ISP"
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Evelyn Ruut - 15 Nov 2007 04:17 GMT Chuck, my dear friend, I didn't post that. It was a guy named Steven Bach, also posts as "Capitalist Pig" who has been trolling and stalking me and several other people, posting things under my name. It's the same guy who is trolling Donna Evleth. If you read the header carefully, you will notice he forges my posting address with an extra letter in it.
Everyone who knows me knows I cannot stand Bush, and you know it as well. That is why this jerk posts stuff under my name, because he has no credibility of his own.
 Signature Best Regards,
Evelyn
> Thank you Evelyn for a very rational, level headed argument about the > wasteful emotions generated by hatred of Bush. You know Depak Chopra [quoted text clipped - 157 lines] >>Mr. Berkowitz is a senior fellow at Stanford University's Hoover >>Institution and a professor at George Mason University School of Law. Grandpa Chuck - 15 Nov 2007 05:49 GMT >Chuck, my dear friend, I didn't post that. It was a guy named Steven Bach, >also posts as "Capitalist Pig" who has been trolling and stalking me and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >That is why this jerk posts stuff under my name, because he has no >credibility of his own. Yeah, I found that out pretty darned fast after I posted an answer. The fact that it was cross-posted should have alerted me right off the bat.
I will pay closer attention after this.
 Signature
Grandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~
Please grant me: the serenity to accept the people I cannot change the courage to change the one that I can the wisdom to know that it is me
krom - 15 Nov 2007 06:47 GMT Is bush a diabetic?
"Evelyn Ruut" <evenlyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote <buncha politcal gobbety gook>
Evelyn Ruut - 15 Nov 2007 13:06 GMT Krom, you have replied to a troll. Please take note. I don't involve in conversations about this stuff on this newsgroup.
 Signature Best Regards,
Evelyn
> Is bush a diabetic? > > "Evelyn Ruut" <evenlyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote > <buncha politcal gobbety gook> Evelyn Ruut - 15 Nov 2007 22:22 GMT > Krom, you have replied to a troll. Please take note. > I don't involve in conversations about this stuff on this newsgroup. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > - Afficher le texte des messages précédents - I am the real Evelyn Ruut and I post from gmail. The OTHER woman who calls herself Evelyn Ruut is kooky bitter old woman who fantasizes that people are interested in the adolescent drivel she posts. Don't be fooled, read the headers.
Best Regards
Evelyn Ruut
Alan S - 15 Nov 2007 22:44 GMT >> > "Evelyn Ruut" <evenlyn.r...@gmail.com> wrote >> > <buncha politcal gobbety gook>- Masquer le texte des messages précédents - [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Evelyn Ruut May I suggest to those who use a newsreader able to do so, killfile evenlyn.ruut@gmail.com
Note the extra "n" in evenlyn.
Into the kf it goes.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Psyllium, Fibre, Muesli and Nuts
Evelyn Ruut - 15 Nov 2007 23:29 GMT More forgery.
 Signature Best Regards,
Evelyn
> Krom, you have replied to a troll. Please take note. > I don't involve in conversations about this stuff on this newsgroup. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > - Afficher le texte des messages précédents - I am the real Evelyn Ruut and I post from gmail. The OTHER woman who calls herself Evelyn Ruut is kooky bitter old woman who fantasizes that people are interested in the adolescent drivel she posts. Don't be fooled, read the headers.
Best Regards
Evelyn Ruut
krom - 16 Nov 2007 05:06 GMT i know it was the fake i still thought my coment was funny..lol
To get zen..i post because i can..hehehe
KROM
> Krom, you have replied to a troll. Please take note. > I don't involve in conversations about this stuff on this newsgroup. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > - Afficher le texte des messages précédents - I am the real Evelyn Ruut and I post from gmail. The OTHER woman who calls herself Evelyn Ruut is kooky bitter old woman who fantasizes that people are interested in the adolescent drivel she posts. Don't be fooled, read the headers.
Best Regards
Evelyn Ruut
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