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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / August 2007Wow, liver dump R me!
Today, the kids and I have been at a karate festival. 6 hours' training - and we get to do it again tomorrow <whimper>... I have been liver dumping all over the place, and I'd appreciate some advice on how to handle tomorrow, or Monday's morning session. This is what I ate, and readings: Breakfast, my summer cereal with full cream milk, about 6g carbs; lots of protein. Pre karate 5.1 1 1/2 hours in - 8.3. Merde! Ate an apple to try and turn it off. 1 hours later - 9.6. Eeek! Decided to train some more but not eat, and try and wear it off! 1 hour later - 10.3. Highest reading for a long, long time! Lunchtime now. Lunch - 4 small slices home-made bread, tot 12 carbs, Brie, medium tomato. Lots and lots of water and a can of diet Coke - I should say that summer turned on today, it was very, very hot, we trained outside, and I am sunburned despite several applications of factor 40! End of lunch - 6.3. End of first session, 5.1; ate half a Kit-kat, I think the whole is 17g End of second session, 5.6 Supper, chili con carne with black soy beans, 1/2 slice plastic bread - 1 hour, 6.1 So, I'm back to morning exercise causing dumps - extreme morning exercise, anyway. At least I never hit a low, which I used to rebound to do. Tomorrow I'm going to train wearing a hat, and I have bottles and bottles of water cooling in the fridge. I have also asked Elder Daughter to make sure I eat a little nut/raisin mixture at every opportunity, because I'd once again lost the ability to make sensible decisions about this. What else can I do? TIA, Nicky. >Today, the kids and I have been at a karate festival. 6 hours' >training - and we get to do it again tomorrow <whimper>... [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >Nicky. Have you considered bumping brekky up over 6g on days when you know your about to do karate? And having a snack - fruit, bar, similar - about an hour into it? Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com >Have you considered bumping brekky up over 6g on days when >you know your about to do karate? Yeah, I hear what you're saying - I'm a little scared to because I KNOW that much over 6g will send me high - but I think I'd rather be food-high and use it up, than liver high, which just keeps coming... tomorrow I'll have the usual breakfast, then try a handful of nuts / raisins just beforehand. >And having a snack - fruit, bar, similar - about an hour >into it? Unfortunately, the way the thing is structured, I'd look like a green monkey - breaks are at 1 1/2 hours, leaving the training early is of course possible but highly embarrassing. I guess I'll just try and eat when I can - a very strange thing to have to say : ) Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >>Have you considered bumping brekky up over 6g on days when >>you know your about to do karate? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > D&E, 100ug thyroxine > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 Possibly a larger breakfast than normal consisting of more proteins and fats than normal would help? And then a little carby snack right before the activity? John C. Sipping orange juice works for me. A few sips every 15 minutes or however your breaks between training occur. I watched a little girl at a water park once. She was a type 1 and she would do maybe 3 climbs up the steps and 3 slides down and come and get a few crackers then repeat it, before coming and testing, shooting and eating a sandwich and apple. > Today, the kids and I have been at a karate festival. 6 hours' > training - and we get to do it again tomorrow <whimper>... [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > opportunity, because I'd once again lost the ability to make sensible > decisions about this. What else can I do? Lose all your VAT by eating less, down to the optimal amount (32 ounces) to become healthier (hungrier) so that you will cure the insulin resistance (IR/MetS) that is behind your glycemic dysregulation. With a BMI of 25, it is very likely that your WHR (Waist to Hip Ratio) is greater than 0.75, which would indicate that you indeed have VAT causing your IR/MetS. It is only when we are hungry (stomachs laughing and singing) that our bodies get rid of the VAT. Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/PressRelease Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist > Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed: Be Chumped, be f.cked.  SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > > > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/b656aad132d5f88a? > > Be Chumped, be f.cked. http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Proof May GOD bless you in HIS mighty way making you healthier (hungrier) than ever: http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/PressRelease Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: >> > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Proof Well at least you know who I was talking about. As for whatever it was you posted, I didn't read it and I wouldn't click on ANY link *you* posted. SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Well at least you know who I was talking about. There has been no reason to believe you were writing about anyone but yourself. > As for whatever it was you posted, I didn't read it and I wouldn't click on > ANY link *you* posted. Your choice. You have the free will that GOD has generously given all souls per HIS infinite free will. You remain in my prayers, that GOD bless you in HIS mighty way making you healthier (hungrier) than ever: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/PressRelease Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: >> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > There has been no reason to believe you were writing about anyone but > yourself. Wouldn't you just love for people to think that. (Not a question) c.nt. SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 >Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > c.nt. Your language simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict you: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts ... and that we should work harder to keep children from being exposed to obscenities: http://www.afa.net/emails/p_1700.html Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/PressRelease Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist > Wouldn't you just love for people to think that. (Not a question) For goodness sake Beav - stop feeding the poor deluded troll! Phil. SignaturePhil Launchbury, IT PHB 'I'm training the bats that live in my cube to juggle mushrooms' > > Wouldn't you just love for people to think that. (Not a question) > > For goodness sake Beav - stop feeding the poor deluded troll! Name-calling simply shows that you are lost: http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/dream.asp The brethren of LORD Jesus Christ are neither perfect nor more special... we are simply forgiven by GOD: http://www.interviewwithgod.com/forgiven/ May you wisely choose to be forgiven too by publicly declaring with your mouth that "Jesus is LORD:" http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist Dear Nicky, Have you considered including as much vinegar as you can stand in your morning diet ? On many, it seems to have a good effect on BG ... <hugs> "Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> a écrit ... > Today, the kids and I have been at a karate festival. 6 hours' > training - and we get to do it again tomorrow <whimper>... [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Nicky. > Dear Nicky, > Have you considered including as much vinegar as > you can stand in your morning diet ? > On many, it seems to have a good effect on BG ... Vinegar + protein = yummy pickled herring for breakfast! > "Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> a ecrit ... >> Today, the kids and I have been at a karate festival. 6 hours' [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >> >> Nicky. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] >> Dear Nicky, >> Have you considered including as much vinegar as >> you can stand in your morning diet ? >> On many, it seems to have a good effect on BG ... > > Vinegar + protein = yummy pickled herring for breakfast! <gag> Not my cuppa tea. >Vinegar + protein = yummy pickled herring for breakfast! Never tried it; might be worth a shot but I wouldn't know where to buy it out here. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com Over here, the banks made a deal with the supermarkets; banks would not sell food and supermarkets would not peddle house loans. (I know it's not the case everywhere). So, the pickled herring would be found in France in supermarkets, fish shops and "delicatessen". Give it a go, mate ! "Alan S" <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> a écrit ... >>Vinegar + protein = yummy pickled herring for breakfast! > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com >Over here, the banks made a deal with the supermarkets; >banks would not sell food and supermarkets would not [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Give it a go, mate ! I obviously patronise the wrong supermarkets, fish shops and "delicatessens":-) Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com >Dear Nicky, >Have you considered including as much vinegar as >you can stand in your morning diet ? >On many, it seems to have a good effect on BG ... I wish I knew the mechanism of vinegar... it seems to be a gut reaction, rather than a liver one, so might not work here. Thanks for the thought, though, Frank! I'll bear it in mind for Tuesday, when I've stopped kicking people but still might be eating too much! Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 I hope it works for you, precious one ! "Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> a écrit ... >>Dear Nicky, >>Have you considered including as much vinegar as [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > D&E, 100ug thyroxine > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 Just one thing - beware of the addition of sugar into balsamic. Taken from another forum. Vinegar is high in acetic acid Acetic acid, can increase the body's absorption of important minerals from the foods we eat. It can increase calcium absorption. It slows the absorption of sugar. It increases insulin sensitivity. It increases the feeling of satiety. It can be used as a flavoring agent in place of unhealthy fats and salt. When making a dish that contains beans, add a little vinegar near the end of cooking--it will dramatically decrease the amount of salt you'll need. Vinegar can turn ordinary vegetables into a marinated-vegetable salad that's ready to grab out of the refrigerator whenever hunger strikes. A splash of balsamic vinegar can bring out the sweetness and flavor of strawberries without any added sugar. I know it sounds gross but some people like balsamic vinegar on vanilla ice cream. It has a long history of helping with all kinds of health problems. Some of the uses may be wishful thinking but it does appear to help with a large number of things. I have not verified any of the claims contained in here. It does, IME, help to clean windows without leaving streaks on the panes though. " Frank t2" <a@b.c> a écrit ... >I hope it works for you, precious one ! > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> D&E, 100ug thyroxine >> Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >Just one thing - beware of the addition of sugar into balsamic. > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >It does, IME, help to clean windows without leaving streaks on the panes >though. Hmmm. Interesting ideas to start researching, though. Thanks! Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >Today, the kids and I have been at a karate festival. 6 hours' >training - and we get to do it again tomorrow. . . Hi, Nicky! I have absolutely nothing of value to contribute re your liver dump -- Just wanted to say kick butt! Have fun! And don't forget to report all deets! :-) SignatureBlueBrooke T2/D&E/June 2005 May 2007 A1c 5.5 Oct 2006 A1c 5.8 Jun 2005 A1c 6.8 >>Today, the kids and I have been at a karate festival. 6 hours' >>training - and we get to do it again tomorrow. . . [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Just wanted to say kick butt! Have fun! And don't forget to report >all deets! :-) Heh - Blue, you cut out the sounds of people who have over trained :D At lunchtime today, we were trying not to giggle because it hurt so much... then that struck us as amusing, so we were giggling and moaning at the same time... which was hysterically funny... and it went down hill from there : ) We are having a ball, and learning tons - not least of which is how to manage my bg. Thanks for everyone's suggestions; the highest I got today was 7.1. Eating dried banana slices at 9:30 in the morning felt distinctly weird, but worked fine. I also munched trail mix and apricots at every opportunity. To my great delight, I am doing at least as well as my grade group. This morning, I out-ran both my teenagers :D during some sadist's idea of a short warm up - running round 3 soccer pitches - and I managed my only perfect kata of the day when the senior instructor was watching. I'm one of the oldest and fattest people there - and it's amusing me that this feels strange, my body image has obviously shifted quite a long way. Karate is doing me a lot of good... <ow...> Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >>>Today, the kids and I have been at a karate festival. 6 hours' >>>training - and we get to do it again tomorrow. . . [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >D&E, 100ug thyroxine >Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 Fat? You? The rest must be bloody skinny! Remind me not to upset you next time we meet. I'll make a particular point of not calling you Babe or luv. You're starting to sound positively dangerous. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com >Fat? You? The rest must be bloody skinny! > >Remind me not to upset you next time we meet. I'll make a >particular point of not calling you Babe or luv. You're >starting to sound positively dangerous. Heh - you can call me anything you like, after that first comment :D Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > Today, the kids and I have been at a karate festival. 6 hours' > training - and we get to do it again tomorrow <whimper>... [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Nicky. Here is my formula for getting an almighty liver dump, Nicky - Have my breakfast of a single solitary piece of low carb multigrain toast with a bit of cheese, then, immediately after, go on my 12 kilometre bike ride to work. Now, if I didn't go on the ride at all, after about 50 minutes my bg would be around 8 or below. But if I ride immediately after the breakfast - bang! At the end of the ride, my bg has gone up to over 9! An hour after that, it's gone to more than 10! Something in my body sends a message to my liver that my bg needs boosting, and my bg gets very boosted! I get around the major dump by waiting 50 minutes after eating before going on my bike ride. Even so, at the end of the ride my bg is only marginally lower than it would be if I had not exercised at all. Despite the liver dumps, it is thanks to the exercise my bg is lower generally, so I persevere with it. Interestingly enough, I can decrease my use of insulin such as Lantus when exercising, and when not exercising, the Lantus has a reduced effect on my bgs. (Naturally I never take insulin before exercising). Henry Mydlarz. >I get around the major dump by waiting 50 minutes after eating before going >on my bike ride. Even so, at the end of the ride my bg is only marginally [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Lantus when exercising, and when not exercising, the Lantus has a reduced >effect on my bgs. (Naturally I never take insulin before exercising). Is it possible to zap the high bg with a bolus, Henry, or is that too risky? I guess your decreased need is insulin resistance. Damned powerful thing, when it's still a factor after all the cycling you put in! Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >>I get around the major dump by waiting 50 minutes after eating before >>going [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > D&E, 100ug thyroxine > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 It is too risky, Nicky. I like to use the bolus only before my main meal, when all of the bike riding is over and done with, and when I know exactly when and what I'm going to eat. I've always had high fbg, in the vicinity of 7.5 to as high as 9 - often more, and the Lantus basal killed that. Now I'm getting a respectable 4 - 5. Even so, I can guarrantee a dump if I start riding straight after eating, no matter what I eat. Here's a puzzler, though - if I have a breakfast at the weekend, then I can ride even half an hour after eating, and my bg will go down, as it should. This means that there is or are other triggers for a liver dump than purely exercising with a low bg. I figure it's also the adrenalin rush, which is certainly present every time I hop on my bike and risk killing myself on the highway. Henry Mydlarz >This means that there is or are other triggers for a >liver dump than purely exercising with a low bg. I figure it's also the >adrenalin rush, which is certainly present every time I hop on my bike and >risk killing myself on the highway. I completely emphasise with your liver :D Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > Today, the kids and I have been at a karate festival. 6 hours' > training - and we get to do it again tomorrow <whimper>... [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Nicky. Nicky, Have you considered having beans (like pintos, navy beans and the like) at breakfast? They are pretty carby, but for me, they seem to digest pretty slowly. Maybe they could be the carby gift that keeps on giving? Best regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise >Have you considered having beans (like pintos, navy beans and the >like) at breakfast? They are pretty carby, but for me, they seem to >digest pretty slowly. Maybe they could be the carby gift that keeps >on giving? Michelle, the theory sounds perfect - but I'm afraid to try that in a group activity, the side effects might be a big problem : ) Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 11:51:44 -0700, "Michelle C." > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > D&E, 100ug thyroxine > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 LOL! I hadn't thought of that. That particular symptom...ahem...is hit or miss with me. The unpredictability is so much fun! ;-) Definitely another type of gift that keeps on giving once it gets started. ;-) Best regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise > Today, the kids and I have been at a karate festival. 6 hours' > training - and we get to do it again tomorrow <whimper>... [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Nicky. I started noticing liver dumps after a heavy workout and it really scared me. What I was doing was going to the gym and doing 45 min to an hour on the treadmill, some weight training and then go home and flop on the couch. Bg would go up to about 150 sometimes. I found I had to stay moderatly active after my workout to prevent this, It didnt take much, just anything beside vegging out infront of the TV. as ususual YMMV Jimmie >I started noticing liver dumps after a heavy workout and it really scared >me. What I was doing was going to the gym and doing 45 min to an hour on the >treadmill, some weight training and then go home and flop on the couch. Bg >would go up to about 150 sometimes. I found I had to stay moderatly active >after my workout to prevent this, It didnt take much, just anything beside >vegging out infront of the TV. as ususual YMMV Didn't work for me over the weekend - which was a distinctly intense training experience, 6 hours of karate per day. On day 1, I under-carbed it, and bg just kept going up - and up - no matter what I did. Control was better on the second day, but I still had to drop out of a fighting session because I didn't think I would be safe - I LOVE sparring, but I get an adrenalin surge from it anyway; I didn't want to start one from 150! I'm now going back to my normal routine of only exercising after lunch - but next time I do something in the morning, I'm going to carb up a bit first. A handful of dried banana chips worked reasonably this time. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 |
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