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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / August 2007UNIT
What is considered to be a unit on insulin? Some have mentioned they use 25 units and some have stated 2 units were too much for them. It seems every one is using the same name for different amounts. I use 4 to 8 mls of insulin as needed on a sliding scale. When the dose was explained to me they referred to each ml as a unit, at least that's how I remember it. Thanks Don > What is considered to be a unit on insulin? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Don Many biologicals are measured in International Units. A unit is the amount that causes an agreed biological effect. It varies in weight by the substance. Insulin is measured in IU, and one IU equals 1/22 of a mg of pure insulin crystals, or 45.5 ug. Insulin is supplied in a solution called U-100, which means there are 100 units per ml. (Some places in the world also have U-40 still available.) If you take 4u, you are taking 4/100 of a ml. If you take 8ml, there is a distinct possibility that you will wake up dead. Jim >> What is considered to be a unit on insulin? >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > If you take 4u, you are taking 4/100 of a ml. If you take 8ml, there is > a distinct possibility that you will wake up dead. That happened after a young man received the wrong insulin at a WalMart in Frederick, Md. His family won a law suit. Frank >>> What is considered to be a unit on insulin? >>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> U-100, which means there are 100 units per ml. (Some places in the >> world also have U-40 still available.) India did/does. I think it was Ted who posted about it a few years ago. Americans wanted to import it for kids for more accurate dosing. >> If you take 4u, you are taking 4/100 of a ml. If you take 8ml, there >> is a distinct possibility that you will wake up dead. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Frank Did he get U500 instead? Just the thought stands my hair on end. I got NPH once instead of UL. NPH is theinsulinfromhell for many T1s - BTDT. I had the carton open before I realized. This was shortly after Novo changed packaging. WalMart. Vicki Hi Vicki: >> That happened after a young man received the wrong insulin at a >> WalMart in Frederick, Md. His family won a law suit. >> >> Frank > > Did he get U500 instead? Just the thought stands my hair on end. I believe it was regular insulin but in the higher concentration. Now the clerks show the box containing the vial to the pharmacist. > I got NPH once instead of UL. NPH is theinsulinfromhell for many T1s - > BTDT. I had the carton open before I realized. This was shortly after > Novo changed packaging. WalMart. It would seem that there were two human errors, the clerk's and the young man's. Frank >That happened after a young man received the wrong insulin at a WalMart >in Frederick, Md. His family won a law suit. > >Frank That's happened to me a couple of times, gotten the wrong insulin. I must be weird though, I always read the label before removing the bottle from the box.  SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . > What is considered to be a unit on insulin? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Don 4 to 8 ml of insulin would be 400 - 800 units. 1 ml = 1 cc (cubic centimeter) = 100 units of U100 insulin (95%+ of insulin used today). There is also U40 insulin, where 1 ml = 40 units (veterinary caninsulin is U40) and U500 insulin, where 1ml = 500 units. U500 insulin is used by people who are extremely insulin resistant. Shame on your government for not teaching its children the metric system. HTH Vicki See what happens when Americans don't teach their children the metric system? Shame on your government. >4 to 8 ml of insulin would be 400 - 800 units. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Shame on your government for not teaching its children the metric system. It is not necessarily the failure of government, Vicki... I would view it as a failure of local school authorities... I learned the metric system in the second and third grades, and so did many other Americans. It is far easier than the "English" system, of pounds, ounces, etc, which we also learned.... Of course, I admit that I was always in something of a special school. Many seventh grade American kids are very sharp in the metric system. My son recently took Algebra as a seventh grader, and geometry as an eighth grader. He has also been working in metrics for several years. Will, T2 > >4 to 8 ml of insulin would be 400 - 800 units. > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > It is not necessarily the failure of government, Vicki... I would view > it as a failure of local school authorities... Who, for public schools, are part of the government. Priscilla > Who, for public schools, are part of the government. Yes, I would agree with that, but I was thinking that differences between school boards and what happens at the local level is a prime expample of what happens with decentralized government.... In a sense, it is not one government at all, at that level. What we see is a multitude of local governmental efforts, setting policy for their own localized jurisdictions, trying to follow broader policy that may be mandated at the state and Federal levels. So, the end result is that in some places, the public schools are among the best in the nation, because of strong local economies, a well-educated populace, and strong leadership, while in other places, the kids are seemingly in the stone age, in so far as the manner in which they are being taught, and what they are being taught. Clearly, just my perception, but I do not think it is too far off the mark. Sadly, I think the most of the authorities and people living in the poorer school districts really do mean well. It is just that they do not have the resources and the leadership to do the job, and the deficiency is not necessarily the fault of the people living in those areas. Will, T2 >> What is considered to be a unit on insulin? >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > See what happens when Americans don't teach their children the metric > system? Shame on your government. Is that those funny measuring terms that little countries use? John >>> What is considered to be a unit on insulin? >>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >John Nah - you're thinking of that antiquated imperial system used in some backward countries. You know - feet and inches and gallons and stuff. Those things have gone the way of ancient leagues, roods and perches in civilised countries... One thing that does puzzle me is why the USA uses metric mg/dl when much of the rest of the world uses mmol/l - both are metric. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/ latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management > One thing that does puzzle me is why the USA uses metric > mg/dl when much of the rest of the world uses mmol/l - both > are metric. > > Cheers, Alan, We're into lots of intervals. John Hi Alan S: > One thing that does puzzle me is why the USA uses metric > mg/dl when much of the rest of the world uses mmol/l - both > are metric. You have mentioned this before. I like the uniformity in the units used for blood glucose and lipids in mg/dl. Since you are acquainted with mathematics as an ex-engineer consider the effect of rounding when small numbers are used such as in some lipids. The rounding up or down can be a big change in percentage with small numbers which would contribute to the inaccuracy in terms of mmol/L. Frank >> One thing that does puzzle me is why the USA uses metric >> mg/dl when much of the rest of the world uses mmol/l - both [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > a big change in percentage with small numbers which would contribute to > the inaccuracy in terms of mmol/L. I think they solved this problem when they invented the decimal point. Signaturehttp://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/ > I think they solved this problem when they invented the decimal point. I think I got one of those around here somewhere. John >Hi Alan S: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Frank Understood, although that can be corrected by going from one to two decimal places. Even so, how significant for the individual is a change in HDL from 1.4(54) to 1.5(58) mmol/L; a change of about 7%? Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/ latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management >>> What is considered to be a unit on insulin? >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>> was explained to me they referred to each ml as a unit, at least that's >>> how I remember it. >> 4 to 8 ml of insulin would be 400 - 800 units. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> Shame on your government for not teaching its children the metric system. > Is that those funny measuring terms that little countries use? Used by all scientists world wide. Only countries which which don't care about scientific education don't teach it. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] >>>> What is considered to be a unit on insulin? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Chris Malcolm So there!...huh John "johnniemccoy@" <johnniemccoy@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in part: >>> What is considered to be a unit on insulin? >>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >John Feet, inches, rods, acres, miles, yards, ounces (fluid and avoirdupois...), pints, cups, quarts, tablespoons, drams, holy moly... It's amazing that Americans can work with measures at all. (Of course, nearly all our machinery and all the medical, scientific, and high tech stuff is in metric. The main holdouts are land, road signs, cooking, weather, and home construction.) The full switch to metric has been planned here for decades, but each new administration pushes back the date. -- Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA > Feet, inches, rods, acres, miles, yards, ounces (fluid and > avoirdupois...), [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > -- > Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA I think that is one of the things that makes science and math so hard for many American kids to really get... Before they can work through the problems of physics, chemistry, etc. they frequently have to convert oz., lbs, feet, rods, and miles to the metric equivalients.... and back again, which makes some relatively elementary problems seem needlessly difficult. Will, T2 "Will, T2" <wmmckee@cox.net> wrote in part: >I think that is one of the things that makes science and math so hard for >many American kids to really get... Before they can work through the >problems of physics, chemistry, etc. they frequently have to convert oz., >lbs, feet, rods, and miles to the metric equivalients.... and back again, >which makes some relatively elementary problems seem needlessly difficult. One of the tools I want to pass down to my grandkids is my Craftsman metric socket wrench set. All the metric sockets come in quarter-inch, three-eighths-inch, and half-inch square drives. It should be a collector's item one day. -- Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA >> Feet, inches, rods, acres, miles, yards, ounces (fluid and >> avoirdupois...), [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Will, T2 I remember some years ago when the gov was going to change over. I think they gave it up because of too much opposition... too much trouble... too bad they didn't simply force the issue. Everything would be a lot easier for the present generation. John johnniemccoy@ wrote in message ... >I remember some years ago when the gov was going to change over. I think >they gave it up because of too much opposition... too much trouble... too >bad they didn't simply force the issue. Everything would be a lot easier for >the present generation. > >John Why do you need the government to *force* the issue? If you want to learn it, and don't already know it, go for it. Then you'll know both. I'm not big on government force in case you haven't noticed. If they want to force something, let them force themselves to be useful over real concerns. :-) Cheri > johnniemccoy@ wrote in message ... > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Cheri At this late stage, I don't feel the need to learn metric as it doesn't impact my life, personally.. if I were younger, probably. "Force" was a bad choice of words on my part. What I meant was, if gov agencies had began using metric at the time, and schools had began teaching it ... the general public would have followed, eventually. I think that would have made life a lot simpler for today's youth and subsequent generations. John >At this late stage, I don't feel the need to learn metric as it doesn't >impact my life, personally.. if I were younger, probably. "Force" was a bad [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >John So there! LOL Cheri >>At this late stage, I don't feel the need to learn metric as it > doesn't [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Cheri hehe JOhn >>>At this late stage, I don't feel the need to learn metric as it >> doesn't [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >JOhn The areas of measurement system is a burden. The hundreds of instruments in each mode. A real burden. Today our system is a mixed bag. The metric is a rational system based on a standard that is is sctifically sound. Now based on the wave length of certain wavelength of radiation. It was done as a much better way but for some of us with tons of older instruments it can bve a problem. As a "medcal victum" I skip most units where the unts are well accepted. I do know what 100 means on my meter. The rest is usually to impress others. . When I worked, the unit thing and exact terms were very important. Here the proper simple explanations seem to be more important. I am a user not a developer. Not my problem. Hi John, If you can count to ten and know that 100 is ten tens, and that 1000 is ten hundreds, etc., you already know the metric system.... Conceptually, it is ever so much easier than what prevails in the US with respect to common meaures of weights, distances, volume, and temperature.... Will, T2 >Hi John, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Will, T2 As one who lived through the two stages of metrication (first from LSD to $, then imperial to metric) in Australia the change is only difficult for those who have left high school at the time of the change. The system is simpler and I would never want to go back. However, my mind often still thinks in inches first then converts, and I still think in "dual" for many concepts such as temperature - the old Century, 100F, just seems more dramatic than 37C and six foot tall sounds simpler than 183cm:-) But the advantages for people like us are in lots of little things every day. For example, for measuring foods, comparing carb counts (not using misleading serve sizes but gms per 100gm) and so many other things on a daily basis. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/ latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management > "johnniemccoy@" <johnniemccoy@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in part: > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > -- > Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA Hillary will do it. Hillary will do everything. http://www.digitalbirdcrap.com/haha.html John Doesn't always workd out. My father worked (in the 1960s, 1970s ) on the design of experiments that went up in early rockets. He said one experiment was shipped to NASA and was 'found wanting' over there. It turns out that they NASA 'experts' didn't read the scale, clearly written in metric system ! "Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> a écrit ... > "johnniemccoy@" <johnniemccoy@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote : > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > -- > Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA > What is considered to be a unit on insulin? > > Some have mentioned they use 25 units and some have stated 2 units were > too much for them. The rest has been explained so I'll explain why some have high insulin needs and others don't. Typically a highly insulin-resistant type 2 would be injecting far more insulin than a non insulin-resistant type 1 to achieve the same results. > What is considered to be a unit on insulin? > > Some have mentioned they use 25 units and some have stated 2 units were too > much for them. > > It seems every one is using the same name for different amounts. No, a unit is a unit. It was defined as the bg-lowering activity in a rabbit in fact. If you read _The Discovery of Insulin_ there are snippets of stories about how when Eli Lilly was ramping up production in Indianapolis in the 1920's and standardizing the unit, they used so many rabbits for testing that they had to start importing them from out-of-state! > I use 4 to 8 mls of insulin as needed on a sliding scale. When the dose was > explained to me they referred to each ml as a unit, at least that's how I > remember it. Well, with U-100 insulin, a ml is 100 units. So you're taking 400 to 800 units? 1 cc = 1 ml. The "big" 100-unit syringes are 1cc capacity. The needs of different diabetics for insulin varies super-widely. Babies with Type 1 indeed might take shots of a just one or two units. Folks with insulin allergies or who are extremely insulin resistant (I am not an expert in either area) can need hundreds of units a day. Most people fall in-between. There are some drugs that some diabetics take (e.g. Byetta for a Type 2, or Symlin for a Type 1) that can drastically increase their insulin sensitivity. Tim. >> What is considered to be a unit on insulin? >> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Tim. Thanks to everyone for your replies. I use to run test on the chemicals we used at work and the glassware was marked in MLS. I just assumed the markings on the syringes I use for insulin were MLS also. I had forgotten how large the glassware I used for testing was. I took a closer look at my syringes and the divisions are clearly marked in UNITS not MLS as I had been thinking. When I was in school we did study the metric system, but we seldom use it here in the U.S.A.. When my daughter was learning it in school, I had to refresh my memory it in order to help her, but that was at least 25 years ago. I have a good conversion program on my computer that I use in the rare instance I need to convert any thing from our system to the metric system or from the metric system to ours. Don > >> [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > Today insulin is always sold in U100, but it used to be available in other strengths, U40 was available until relativity recently, and I have seen reverences to U8 and U16 > Today insulin is always sold in U100, but it used to be available in > other strengths, U40 was available until relativity recently, and I have > seen reverences to U8 and U16. For the very highly insulin resistant/allergic, there are U-500 varieties as well, and I think some of the implantable pumps use high- concentration (maybe not U-500?) stuff too. Tim. >> >Today insulin is always sold in U100, but it used to be available in >other strengths, U40 was available until relativity recently, and I have >seen reverences to U8 and U16 other "strengths" are still available. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . >I have a good conversion program on my computer Have you tried the Google converter? It is very flexible. Just do a 'search' for '2 liters in ounces' or 'half a cup'. > What is considered to be a unit on insulin? > > Some have mentioned they use 25 units and some have stated 2 units were too > much for them. > > It seems every one is using the same name for different amounts. When I first got home from the hospital and started googling about insulin, I was very freaked out that I was taking so much more than T1s. I had always thought of T1 as the "more serious" type of diabetes, so why am I taking ten times more insulin than they are?!?! Primarily, it has to do with insulin resistance (IR). Even though I still make insulin endogenously, I'm very short on it because I need so much more than most T1s because my body does not respond to insulin well. To a lesser degree, it also has to do with size; very small children often take such tiny doses that the insulin needs to be diluted in order to be accurately measured. For me, 8 units is not a particularly large dose, I take 15 as my evening basal and then another 10 units basal in the morning. This would kill people who are not as IR as me because they are so much more sensitive to insulin. > I use 4 to 8 mls of insulin as needed on a sliding scale. When the dose was > explained to me they referred to each ml as a unit, at least that's how I > remember it. A "unit" is how much insulin it takes to lower bg a certain standardized amount. But it doesn't work equally across individuals because of IR and size differences. They measure it this way so you can compare doses of various insulins - because what matters is the bioactivity, not the mass of insulin. In the US, insulin and syringes come in U-100 which is 100 units per mL. So the syringe markings are in units. My current syringes hold up to 50 units, which is a half mL. >What is considered to be a unit on insulin? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Don no, everyone is using the same unit of measure. a "unit" is 1/100th of a CC. Except for the special syringes that can measure 1/2 units all insulin syringes are measured in units, ie each line on the syringe is a single unit. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . |
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