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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / August 2007

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Hazards of Too Much Choline

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Will, T2 - 08 Aug 2007 14:35 GMT
Hello friends,

As many of you know, I spend a couple of hours every day, just
browsing journals and reports of new research. Well, today I came
across something that may be of interest to many of you, having to do
with dietary choices.

Here is a link to an abstract of an article arising from research that
indicates that there may be some dangers associated with a surfeit of
choline in the diet. Choline, an essential nutrient in the nature of a
B vitamin, is found in red meat, poultry, and dairy products. Anyway,
the study, just published online today in the Journal of the National
Cancer Institute (Oxford Univ. Press) indicates that there was a
positive association between choline intake and cholorectal cancer
risk. Again, I would note, just as in yesterday's discussions
regarding sodas, association does not necessarily equate to causation,
and in the conclusion, the authors note that there may be other
factors. Also worthy of note about this particular study is that it
involved only women subjects.

Conclusions: Our findings do not support an inverse association
between choline intake and risk of colorectal adenoma. The positive
association between choline intake and colorectal adenoma that we
observed could represent effects of other components in the foods from
which choline was derived and should be investigated further.

http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/djm082

What I get from this is that while there is risk from virtually
everything, we still have to live.... So, it stands to reason that
this is just one more reason to take our nutrition from a well
balanced variety of sources, with moderation, and not from one type of
food, exclusively.

In a section in the abstract entitled "Context and Caveats" the
researchers noted the following:

CONTEXT AND CAVEATS
Prior knowledge

Epidemiologic studies have suggested that lower dietary intake of
folate and methionine and higher intake of alcohol are associated with
an increased risk of colorectal adenoma (polyps in the colon or rectum
that may develop into colorectal cancer). All of these dietary factors
are involved in a biochemical pathway(s) referred to as one-carbon
metabolism. Choline and betaine in the diet also affect one-carbon
metabolism, but their association with the risk of colorectal cancer
was not known.

Study design

Dietary intake of choline and betaine and incidence of colorectal
adenoma were assessed by a questionnaire that was sent to a large
group of female nurses every 2 years, and statistical methods were
used to assess the association between choline intake and the risk of
colorectal adenoma.

Contribution

Increased dietary intake of choline was associated with an elevated
risk of colorectal adenoma. The association with betaine intake was
not clear.

Implications

Additional work will be needed to clarify the relationship between
choline and risk of colorectal adenoma.

Limitations

Other components of the diet, the intakes of which are highly
correlated with choline consumption, may be the source of the
increased risk of colorectal adenoma that was observed.

Will, T2
Loretta Eisenberg - 08 Aug 2007 21:56 GMT
Wil, was this a new study.  The reason  ask is because I was told years
ago not to have too much red meat to help prevent colorectal cancer.

Loretta
Will, T2 - 08 Aug 2007 22:16 GMT
> Wil, was this a new study.  The reason  ask is because I was told years
> ago not to have too much red meat to help prevent colorectal cancer.

Yes, Loretta. It was published just today. If I recall correctly, it was
first submitted in Dec., 2006, and accepted for publication a couple of
months ago...

You are correct about the earlier warnings against not eating too much red
meat. I have heard that for a long time, myself. Some of those earlier
warnings, though, may have related to nitrosamines and nitrites that are
formed in the cooking process, especially on hot surfaces, which would be a
completely different issue than excessive choline in the diet. Other
studies, as I recall, were simple correlations between red meat and
incidence of colorectal cancer.  As far as I know, this is the first study
that targets and studies choline as a factor. The paradox is that choline is
considered an essential nutrient in the human diet, but too much of it may
in some way be related to, or causative of, intestinal polyps that are
precursors to cancerous lesions....

Will, T2
Susan - 08 Aug 2007 22:42 GMT
>>Wil, was this a new study.  The reason  ask is because I was told years
>>ago not to have too much red meat to help prevent colorectal cancer.
>
> Yes, Loretta. It was published just today. If I recall correctly, it was
> first submitted in Dec., 2006, and accepted for publication a couple of
> months ago...

It didn't warn against choline, though.  They don't know what caused the
effect.

> You are correct about the earlier warnings against not eating too much red
> meat. I have heard that for a long time, myself. Some of those earlier
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> in some way be related to, or causative of, intestinal polyps that are
> precursors to cancerous lesions....

No connection of red meat to colon cancer has ever held up to scientific
scrutiny.  Only the connection to chemically cured meats seems to have
any association.

High insulin and glucose, OTOH, are associated with colon cancer, very
strongly.  My mother was just operated on for a rapid growth colon
cancer.  She was always incredibly healthy til she was put on statins
she didn't need, and Prednisone to treat the statin damage.  The cancer
grew soon after.

She ate low fat, low red meat.

Susan
Will, T2 - 08 Aug 2007 22:56 GMT
> It didn't warn against choline, though.  They don't know what caused the
> effect.

Correct....

> No connection of red meat to colon cancer has ever held up to scientific
> scrutiny.  Only the connection to chemically cured meats seems to have
> any association.

You are probably right about that... I just remember hearing about warnings
against too much red meat, but I have not really seen any studies making a
scientific link. The thing I most recall was the issue related to
nitrosamines and nitrites and how they behave in the cooking process....
Chemical curing would be where the nitrosomines come from, which are
concverted to nitrites in cooking. At least that is what I seem to recall.

> High insulin and glucose, OTOH, are associated with colon cancer, very
> strongly.  My mother was just operated on for a rapid growth colon
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> She ate low fat, low red meat.

That is really bad news about your mom, Susan... I hope she is going to be
OK. Sadly, most of us here in asd know people with high insulin and high
glucose. What statin was she taking? That sounds very scary.....

Didn't the prednisone just make her glucose ride higher? Over time,
predinose can be a very dangerous drug.... and among other things it is
known to cause cataracts.

Will, T2
Susan - 08 Aug 2007 23:00 GMT
, T2 wrote:
The thing I most recall was the issue related to
> nitrosamines and nitrites and how they behave in the cooking process....
> Chemical curing would be where the nitrosomines come from, which are
> concverted to nitrites in cooking. At least that is what I seem to recall.

Sorta.  Nitrosamines are the carcinogens that nitrites or nitrates
convert to in cooking.

> That is really bad news about your mom, Susan... I hope she is going to be
> OK. Sadly, most of us here in asd know people with high insulin and high
> glucose. What statin was she taking? That sounds very scary.....

She had NO blockages, her ratios were great, but stupid doctors
medicated her LDL numbers anyway.  She went on several, even after
severe muscle aches and pains developed with each one.  She didn't
listen to my pleading for her to stop trying them.  Her HDL was high and
her TGLs were low without them.

> Didn't the prednisone just make her glucose ride higher? Over time,
> predinose can be a very dangerous drug.... and among other things it is
> known to cause cataracts.

The statins and the Prednison did that and caused all her health
problems, other than some hearing loss.  She's always been extremely fit
and active and health conscious.  What made her ill was believing in her
doctors, that they knew best.

Susan
Will, T2 - 09 Aug 2007 01:10 GMT
>Sorta.  Nitrosamines are the carcinogens that nitrites or nitrates
>convert to in cooking.

Yep, you are right... I had it backwards... I just checked.

Here is a link to a brief discussion on the subject from the Linus
Pauling Institute, at Oregon State Univ.

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/f-w00/nitrosamine.html

Will, T2
dumb_fishie99@yahoo.com - 09 Aug 2007 01:44 GMT
>x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>and active and health conscious.  What made her ill was believing in her
>doctors, that they knew best.

Susan, I'm very sorry to hear about your mother;s health; I hope she
gets better.  

That is very scary, and makes me want to trust them even less.
Susan - 09 Aug 2007 03:06 GMT
> Susan, I'm very sorry to hear about your mother;s health; I hope she
> gets better.  
>
> That is very scary, and makes me want to trust them even less.

Thanks.  She's 85 and has let us know that chemo or radiation are NOT on
her agenda no matter what.

Susan
Loretta Eisenberg - 09 Aug 2007 13:31 GMT
Susan I am sorry to hear about your mother.  If I was her age, I wouldnt
want to put myself through that torture and wouldnt either.
I admire her convictions
Loretta
Loretta Eisenberg - 09 Aug 2007 01:50 GMT
Will, all these studies could drive one nuts, so I live by the mantra,
everything in moderation and then we still die. :-)

Loretta
 
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