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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / September 2007Diabetes and Second Hand Smoking
ok, sister is going to have 4-5 bypass surgery Monday. She won't stop smoking. I stopped in October after about 30 years of it. I still "want to" at times, but I know so much damage has been done, and with the diabetes I have and asthma, it would kill me. My sister has T2 also, but she just refuses to stop. It's driving me nuts. Mom is enabling her (and sister is 55). Any great fact sheets for second hand smoking and diabetes, asthma and/or elderly? I have been studying it tonight. I don't think she understands the impact of harming others...I didn't when I smoked. Kris >ok, sister is going to have 4-5 bypass surgery Monday. She won't stop >smoking. I stopped in October after about 30 years of it. I still "want [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >understands the impact of harming others...I didn't when I smoked. >Kris I doubt that the effects on others will motivate her. If anything will, it will be her own risk. Sorry if that sounds harsh - but I suspect that it's true. I didn't deliberately put my wife and kids in jeopardy for thirty years as a smoker - but I still did it. I just didn't believe the scare-stories from others. When I quit, it was because I chose to. No-one else. I re-posted this a couple of months back. maybe some of the links will help you. http://tinyurl.com/266f27 I first posted this a while back, but we've had a lot of newbies and I notice smoking is being discussed again. As an ex-heavily-addicted smoker, I know how hard it was to give up. Usually, scare stories only provide partial help - but I'll pass these on anyway. Because I don't want to hear from anyone, anywhere, claiming that smokes aren't harmful to a diabetic. Just do a simple google scholar search on those two words "smoking+diabetes". This is a small sample of the 51,000+ hits. Just one small snippet among many: "Particularly, survival of smokers with diabetes on hemodialysis is abysmal." A previous poster, Annette, added a lot more info on the evil weed in her reply to the original post - you'll find that at http://tinyurl.com/hdnml For the sake of those who love you (even if that's only you), quit. Cheers, Alan Just a few references: Cigarette smoking and health. American Thoracic Society http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/153/2/861 Cigarette smoking remains the primary cause of preventable death and morbidity in the United States. -------------- Preventing cardiovascular events in patients with diabetes mellitus. Abraham WT. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_... Smoking is known to be particularly dangerous for those with diabetes, and it is important for health care providers to help their patients stop smoking. ------------------- Effects of smoking on systemic and intrarenal hemodynamics: influence on renal function. http://jasn.asnjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/15/1_suppl/S58 The mechanisms of smoking-induced renal damage are only partly understood and comprise acute hemodynamic (e.g., increase in BP and presumably intraglomerular pressure) and chronic effects (e.g., endothelial cell dysfunction). Renal failure per se leads to an increased cardiovascular risk. The latter is further aggravated by smoking. Particularly, survival of smokers with diabetes on hemodialysis is abysmal. ---------------- Effects of cigarette smoking, diabetes, high cholesterol, and hypertension on all-cause mortality and cardiovascular disease mortality in Mexican Americans. The San Antonio Heart Study http://www.aje.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/144/11/1058 After adjustment for sex, age, and socioeconomic status in multivariate analyses, current smoking, diabetes, high cholesterol, and hypertension were positively associated with all-cause mortality and cardiovascular disease mortality in Mexican Americans. Overall, these risk factors accounted for 45% of all-cause mortality and 55% of cardiovascular disease mortality in this ethnic group. ---------------- Smoking, diabetes and hyperlipidaemia. http://rsh.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/118/2/91 Mikhailidis DP, Papadakis JA, Ganotakis ES. Department of Chemical Pathology & Human Metabolism, Royal Free Hospital & School of Medicine, Univ. of London, United Kingdom. The epidemiological evidence linking smoking with insulin resistance is considerable. This evidence is even more convincing because there is a dose response relationship between smoking and the risk of non-insulin dependent diabetes (NIDDM). Similarly, there is a time-dependent decrease in risk of NIDDM for those who quit smoking. Insulin resistance (in the form of impaired glucose tolerance, IGT) may precede the development of NIDDM. There is a biochemical basis for the smoking-IGT/NIDDM relationship. Smoking increases the risk of developing diabetic complications like nephropathy, neuropathy and retinopathy Smoking is also an independent risk factor for myocardial infarction and all-cause mortality in NIDDM. Smokers are both insulin resistant and lipid intolerant. -------------- Smoking and diabetes D Haire-Joshu, RE Glasgow and TL Tibbs http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/22/11/1887 There are consistent results from both cross-sectional and prospective studies showing enhanced risk for micro- and macrovascular disease, as well as premature mortality from the combination of smoking and diabetes. ------------------ Smoking is associated with progression of diabetic nephropathy http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/17/2/126 RESULTS--Progression of nephropathy was less common in nonsmokers (11%) than in smokers (53%) and patients who had quit smoking (33%), P < 0.001. In a stepwise logistic regression analysis, cigarette pack years, 24-h sodium excretion, and GHb were independent predictive factors for the progression of diabetic nephropathy. ------------------- The Effects of a Smoking Cessation Intervention on 14.5-Year Mortality http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/abstract/142/4/233?maxtoshow=&HITS=... or http://tinyurl.com/66oey Intervention: The intervention was a 10-week smoking cessation program that included a strong physician message and 12 group sessions using behavior modification and nicotine gum, plus either ipratropium or a placebo inhaler. Results: At 5 years, 21.7% of special intervention participants had stopped smoking since study entry compared with 5.4% of usual care participants. After up to 14.5 years of follow-up, 731 patients died: 33% of lung cancer, 22% of cardiovascular disease, 7.8% of respiratory disease other than cancer, and 2.3% of unknown causes. All-cause mortality was significantly lower in the special intervention group than in the usual care group (8.83 per 1000 person-years vs. 10.38 per 1000 person-years; P = 0.03). The hazard ratio for mortality in the usual care group compared with the special intervention group was 1.18 (95% CI, 1.02 to 1.37). Differences in death rates for both lung cancer and cardiovascular disease were greater when death rates were analyzed by smoking habit. ----------------- Getting to Goal in Type 2 Diabetes: Role of Postprandial Glycemic Control http://www.medscape.com/viewprogram/3036_pnt Slide 9. MRFIT: Impact of Diabetes on CVD Mortality These are data from the Multiple Risk Factor Intervention Trial (MRFIT) study, where people with and without diabetes were classified as having: no risk factors at all, only 1 risk factor, 2 risk factors, or all 3 risk factors. Risk factors were hypertension, hyperlipidemia, and smoking. For any given number of risk factors, the chances of getting cardiovascular disease are markedly increased in people with type 2 diabetes. This increased risk is related to hyperglycemia. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/ latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management : >ok, sister is going to have 4-5 bypass surgery Monday. She won't stop : >smoking. I stopped in October after about 30 years of it. I still "want [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] : >understands the impact of harming others...I didn't when I smoked. : >Kris : I doubt that the effects on others will motivate her. If : anything will, it will be her own risk. Sorry if that sounds : harsh - but I suspect that it's true. I didn't deliberately : put my wife and kids in jeopardy for thirty years as a : smoker - but I still did it. I just didn't believe the : scare-stories from others. : When I quit, it was because I chose to. No-one else. : I re-posted this a couple of months back. maybe some of the : links will help you. i stoped smoking aobut 36 years ago in the middle of a newcast tht first announced that second hand smoke harmed those round you. I wa, at the time, the mother of 2 small boyss and a teenaged daughhter. I put down the cigarette I was smokeing and never smoked agian. I had known that it waw "bad fo rme," but I had brought these children into this world and couldn' see harming them like that. It wasn't easy, but that served as my motivaion. Wendy <<As an ex-heavily-addicted smoker, I know how hard it was to give up. i went to a tv show back n the 60's focused on smoking. they brought diseased lungs from cadavers that looked like dried black leather. scared the hell out of me so bad i lit up! you have to _want_ to stop. after 30 more years& a 5 ok a day habit i quit. 10 years before being diagnosed as T2. so far so good. no asthsma or copd. AIC 5.4 metformin, diet, exercise >ok, sister is going to have 4-5 bypass surgery Monday. She won't stop >smoking. I stopped in October after about 30 years of it. I still "want [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >understands the impact of harming others...I didn't when I smoked. >Kris Take her to a local Oncology clinic/center. I have a guy who recently asked for time off work because he needs to have biopsies done on his lymph nodes. When asking for the time off he revealed that he has already had 1 lung removed because of damage done by smoking. He is still a chain smoker. Smoking for some people is a serious addiction. Myself, I quit smoking after 22 years, the last half of that at 4 packs a day. I quit the day before heart surgery.  SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . >Smoking for some people is a serious addiction. > >Myself, I quit smoking after 22 years, the last half of that at 4 >packs a day. I quit the day before heart surgery. I think drinking alcohol for some people is just as hard to beat as addiction to nicotine in tobacco products.... Both forms of addiction can really diminish one's overall quality of life. Will, T2 > ok, sister is going to have 4-5 bypass surgery Monday. She won't stop > smoking. I stopped in October after about 30 years of it. I still "want [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > understands the impact of harming others...I didn't when I smoked. > Kris Let her be. Kris, Second hand smoke is terrible. My mother was a victim of it. My stepfather smoked like five packs a day in her presence until she got lymphoma. It is never a good thing. Since the word Cancer doesnt scare her into not smoking, what makes you think Kris that any information you pass to her will do the trick. All the health issues she has has not stopped her. Lung cancer is a terrible way to die. I am sorry for you. I am not sorry for your sister, She has choices. I know she is addicted but there is always some kind of help to be offered, even rehab I suppose. Loretta > ok, sister is going to have 4-5 bypass surgery Monday. Sad to read about this. > She won't stop smoking. She can't help herself. She is addicted to smoking the cigarettes. > I stopped in October after about 30 years of it. I still "want > to" at times, but I know so much damage has been done, and with the diabetes > I have and asthma, it would kill me. My sister has T2 also, but she just > refuses to stop. Only GOD can change her heart as HE has changed yours so that she would know in her heart what you know in your heart that craving ("want to") cigarettes is wonderful because it means you are definitely not smoking cigarettes. It is the latter that is terribly bad and not the craving (wanting) ! If you prayerfully ask GOD, in Jesus' name, to change your sister's heart so that she can choose to quit smoking cigarettes, it is possible that HE will. Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist On Aug 8, 2:32 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: > > ok, sister is going to have 4-5 bypass surgery Monday. > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > Cardiologist A few people may be able to set aside their cravings using religion as a lever. A more general and reliable solution can be found in the realms of clinical hypnosis. It seems absurd that a purported cardiologist would be promoting a supernatural solution in a sci.med group. Mary. > On Aug 8, 2:32 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" > <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Mary. Why is that Mary ? Because you yourself and others like you demand faith be exterminated, or simply becaue praying to someone unseen indicates mental instability in your view ? I have some news for you Mary, I smoked 3 packs a day 15 years ago. I tried several things to quit and none did any good including raw will power. I finally gave up and prayed one morning for God to remove the desire for cigarettes from me. @0 minutes later the desire for a smoke lessened to nothing, I threw my cigarettes away and I've never had the desire again. Yoy don't wipe out cravings like that with sheer will power, I know this for fact because I tried it and I'm not a weak willed person. So for you and the remainder of the professional community that doubt the power of God, I'm the proof as are many others. What you, some in the medical communtiy, the professional communtiy, and myself were to lame to do for me God did. So, in my view your opinions of God come in weighing really weak and anemic. Rod SignatureAmo 5:14 Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken. Amo 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph. Amo 5:16 Therefore the LORD, the God of hosts, the Lord, saith thus; Wailing shall be in all streets; and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to wailing. Amo 5:17 And in all vineyards shall be wailing: for I will pass through thee, saith the LORD. Amo 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. Amo 5:19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him. Amo 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it? Amo 5:21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies. Amo 5:22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts. Amo 5:23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols. Amo 5:24 But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Amo 5:25 Have ye offered unto me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel? Amo 5:26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves. Amo 5:27 Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the LORD, whose name is The God of hosts. > rela...@router5.com wrote: > > On Aug 8, 2:32 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Why is that Mary ? Why do I find it absurd that someone with a supposed scientific training would base a solution on the supernatural in a sci.med group? You're kidding right ? Because you yourself and others like you demand > faith be exterminated, or simply becaue praying to someone unseen > indicates mental instability in your view ? Where on earth do you get such ideas ? I don't demand any such thing. Mental instability is often indicated by people overlapping unconnected thoughts in a manner that is not reflected in day to day reality. Are you demonstrating it here ? > I have some news for you Mary, I smoked 3 packs a day 15 years > ago. I tried several things to quit and none did any good including [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > sheer will power, I know this for fact because I tried it and I'm not a > weak willed person. Good for you. Clinical hypnosis is not a crude application of will power and it works without recourse to the supernatural. > So for you and the remainder of the professional > community that doubt the power of God, I'm the proof as are many others. A more scientific description is that calling upon a higher power to override certain rules that you were following in your addiction is a recognised psychological manouver. It does not constitute proof of a Creator, at least not in a sci. group. Many scientists and doctors believe in a variety of religions. Most of them are courteous and disciplined enough not to bring their religious views to scientific forums. > What you, some in the medical communtiy, the professional communtiy, > and myself were to lame to do for me God did. So, in my view your > opinions of God come in weighing really weak and anemic. > > Rod I did not express an opinion of God. You assumed one for me. > -- snip off-topic (in sci.med groups) religious verbiage. Mary. neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > > neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > A few people may be able to set aside their cravings using religion as > > > a lever. GOD is not a religion nor can we use HIM. HE is the Creator of heaven and earth. HE is the Author of all reality (including the alternate ones). > > > A more general and reliable solution can be found in the > > > realms of clinical hypnosis. Clinical hypnosis only works when GOD allows for the change of heart. > > > It seems absurd that a purported > > > cardiologist would be promoting a supernatural solution in a sci.med > > > group. Prayer is not a supernatural solution but rather a request made to GOD, the Creator of heaven and earth. > > > Mary. > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > training would base a solution on the supernatural in a sci.med > group? You're kidding right ? No. Many with scientific training recognize the existence of the soul and GOD. > > Because you yourself and others like you demand > > faith be exterminated, or simply becaue praying to someone unseen [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > unconnected thoughts in a manner that is not reflected in day to day > reality. Are you demonstrating it here ? Matthew 7:1-2 comes to mind here. > > I have some news for you Mary, I smoked 3 packs a day 15 years > > ago. I tried several things to quit and none did any good including [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Good for you. The praise and glory belongs to GOD, Who helped Rod quit smoking. > Clinical hypnosis is not a crude application of will > power and it works without recourse to the supernatural. "The evidence for whether hypnosis yields outcomes superior to placebos is mixed. In short, hypnosis cannot be considered a specific and efficacious treatment for smoking cessation. Furthermore, in many cases, it is impossible to rule out cognitive/behavioral and educational interventions as the source of positive treatment gains associated with hypnotic treatments. Hypnosis cannot, as yet, be regarded as a well-established treatment for smoking cessation." Source: http://tinyurl.com/2xyxx3 > > So for you and the remainder of the professional > > community that doubt the power of God, I'm the proof as are many others. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > recognised psychological manouver. It does not constitute proof of a > Creator, at least not in a sci. group. Rod was not offering a proof of GOD but rather evidence that prayer to GOD brings about a change. > Many scientists and doctors believe in a variety of religions. Most > of them are courteous and disciplined enough not to bring their > religious views to scientific forums. Christianity is not a religion but rather a relationship with the risen LORD Jesus Christ. Being openly Christian is no more an expression of religious views as being openly American. The brethren on LORD Jesus Christ are neither perfect nor more special... ... we are simply forgiven by GOD: http://www.interviewwithgod.com/forgiven/ > > What you, some in the medical communtiy, the professional communtiy, > > and myself were to lame to do for me God did. So, in my view your [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I did not express an opinion of God. You assumed one for me. You expressed an opinion about HIS people which is tantamount to expressing an opinion about HIM. May you wisely choose to be forgiven GOD by publicly declaring with your mouth that "Jesus is LORD:" http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist On Aug 8, 9:22 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: > neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > > > neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > GOD is not a religion nor can we use HIM. This is being read in a sci. group. Prove your assertion. > HE is the Creator of heaven and earth. This is being read in a sci. group. Prove your assertion. > HE is the Author of all reality (including the alternate ones). This is being read in a sci. group. Prove your assertion. > > > > A more general and reliable solution can be found in the > > > > realms of clinical hypnosis. > > Clinical hypnosis only works when GOD allows for the change of heart. This is being read in a sci. group. Prove your assertion. > > > > It seems absurd that a purported > > > > cardiologist would be promoting a supernatural solution in a sci.med > > > > group. > > Prayer is not a supernatural solution but rather a request made to > GOD, the Creator of heaven and earth. Prayer to a supernatural creator is an attempt at a supernatural solution. > > > > Mary. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > No. Many with scientific training recognize the existence of the soul > and GOD. Most with scientific training have the discernment to separate speculation about the supernatural from observation about the natural. > > > Because you yourself and others like you demand > > > faith be exterminated, or simply becaue praying to someone unseen [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Matthew 7:1-2 comes to mind here. Not to my mind it doesn't. The bible is not considered by the scientific community to be an authoratative work scientific matters. > > > I have some news for you Mary, I smoked 3 packs a day 15 years > > > ago. I tried several things to quit and none did any good including [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > The praise and glory belongs to GOD, Who helped Rod quit smoking. Unsubstantiated assertion of a supreme being in a sci group noted. > > Clinical hypnosis is not a crude application of will > > power and it works without recourse to the supernatural. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > http://tinyurl.com/2xyxx3 A quick search of pubmed reveals a number of studies where hypnosis has either been shown to be a significant and useful tool. A good clinical psychologist has the choice of including hypnosis in his tool box. > > > So for you and the remainder of the professional > > > community that doubt the power of God, I'm the proof as are many others. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Rod was not offering a proof of GOD but rather evidence that prayer to > GOD brings about a change. Anecdotal evidence asserting the power of prayer to a supernatural being will have low weighting in a scientific context. As long a the person believes, prayer to a fire hydrant could have the same result. That is, it is the beliefs entailed which resulted in the change. There is no proof that the beliefs are valid. > > Many scientists and doctors believe in a variety of religions. Most > > of them are courteous and disciplined enough not to bring their > > religious views to scientific forums. > > Christianity is not a religion but rather a relationship with the > risen LORD Jesus Christ. Perhaps you know what you mean by this, but I doubt anyone else does. Many Christians are going to be surprised to find that Christianity is not a religion. > Being openly Christian is no more an expression of religious views as > being openly American. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > ... we are simply forgiven by GOD: These lunatic assertions of the supernatural in a sci. group are just plain silly. Why not go the whole hog and bring in the other major religions of the world into science discussion groups. All hail Vishnu for finding a cure for dandruff should that be His will. While you're at it lets check the Tibetan Book of the Dead to see if there's a cure for M.S. Sheesh! > http://www.interviewwithgod.com/forgiven/ > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > You expressed an opinion about HIS people which is tantamount to > expressing an opinion about HIM. You're just being silly. I expressed an opinion that speculating about the supernatural in a sci group is absurd. I continue to assert that it is. What is more, I say that attempts to persuade otherwise are ill-founded and deceitful. > May you wisely choose to be forgiven GOD by publicly declaring with > your mouth that "Jesus is LORD:" May you wisely choose to write about science in sci groups and the lord in religious groups, though I suggest you use your hands unless you want slobber on your keyboard. > http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay Yuck! Have you visited this site ? The guy must be some kind of nutcase! > Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Er, best wishes to you too. > Andrew <>< Mary > -- > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > Cardiologist convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > This is being read in a sci. group. GOD made as a scientist. > Prove your assertion. http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/press.asp > > HE is the Creator of heaven and earth. > > This is being read in a sci. group. Prove your assertion. It is no more an assertion than any other observation would be an assertion. Observations are made and not proven. The validity of an observation does not require proof. > > HE is the Author of all reality (including the alternate ones). > > This is being read in a sci. group. Prove your assertion. It is no more an assertion than any other observation would be an assertion. Observations are made and not proven. The validity of an observation does not require proof. > > > > > A more general and reliable solution can be found in the > > > > > realms of clinical hypnosis. > > > > Clinical hypnosis only works when GOD allows for the change of heart. > > This is being read in a sci. group. Prove your assertion. It is no more an assertion than any other observation would be an assertion. Observations are made and not proven. The validity of an observation does not require proof. > > > > > It seems absurd that a purported > > > > > cardiologist would be promoting a supernatural solution in a sci.med > > > > > group. > > > > Prayer is not a supernatural solution but rather a request made to > > GOD, the Creator of heaven and earth. > Prayer to a supernatural creator is an attempt at a supernatural > solution. Incorrect. > > > > > Mary. > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Most with scientific training have the discernment to separate > speculation about the supernatural from observation about the natural. Those with discernment recognize that their gift is from GOD. > > > > Because you yourself and others like you demand > > > > faith be exterminated, or simply becaue praying to someone unseen [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Not to my mind it doesn't. The bible is not considered by the > scientific community to be an authoratative work scientific matters. Those in the scientific community with discerning hearts know the Bible to be truthful. The purpose of science is to seek the truth. > > > > I have some news for you Mary, I smoked 3 packs a day 15 years > > > > ago. I tried several things to quit and none did any good including [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Unsubstantiated assertion of a supreme being in a sci group noted. No law prohibits scientists from giving credit to where credit is due. > > > Clinical hypnosis is not a crude application of will > > > power and it works without recourse to the supernatural. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > A good clinical psychologist has the choice of including hypnosis in > his tool box. In reality, folks are not getting hypnosis for smoking cessation because it has not been clinically proven to be more efficacious than placebo in helping folks quit. > > > > So for you and the remainder of the professional > > > > community that doubt the power of God, I'm the proof as are many others. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Anecdotal evidence asserting the power of prayer to a supernatural > being will have low weighting in a scientific context. Case reports continue to be published in the medical field. > As long a the > person believes, prayer to a fire hydrant could have the same result. Without the LORD, your belief is meaningless (Ecclesiastes). > That is, it is the beliefs entailed which resulted in the change. > There is no proof that the beliefs are valid. Proof is not required for anything to be efficacious. Instead, being efficacious is evidence amassing toward a proof, which in reality never occurs for anything in science because of the understanding that it only takes one exception to undermine a proof. > > > Many scientists and doctors believe in a variety of religions. Most > > > of them are courteous and disciplined enough not to bring their [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Perhaps you know what you mean by this, but I doubt anyone else does. Millions on this planet know that Christianity is a relationship with a living GOD, Who is an active part of their lives. > Many Christians are going to be surprised to find that Christianity is > not a religion. Those who are surprised are not Christians. > > Being openly Christian is no more an expression of religious views as > > being openly American. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > plain silly. Why not go the whole hog and bring in the other major > religions of the world into science discussion groups. No one has kept them out. These usenet sci. groups remain unmoderated. > All hail > Vishnu for finding a cure for dandruff should that be His will. While > you're at it lets check the Tibetan Book of the Dead to see if there's > a cure for M.S. > > Sheesh! This simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict you: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/press.asp Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist > > http://www.interviewwithgod.com/forgiven/ > > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > > Cardiologist On Aug 8, 10:35 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: If you're going to go around calling people "convicted" just because they challenge you, then you are sick. From the rest of your post you've either forgotten what it was to be a scientist or you never were one. I'm going to ignore all the distractions you've tried to put up and restate my original point. It is absurd that a purported cardiologist would be promoting a supernatural solution in a sci.med group. Mary convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > > > If you're going to go around calling people "convicted" just because > they challenge you, then you are sick. Clearly you have been convicted by the Holy Spirit. > From the rest of your post > you've either forgotten what it was to be a scientist or you never > were one. http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Proof > I'm going to ignore all the distractions you've tried to put > up and restate my original point. It is absurd that a purported > cardiologist would be promoting a supernatural solution in a sci.med > group. Prayer is a petition to GOD for HIS help rather than a supernatural solution. Truth is simple. Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/press.asp Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist >> rela...@router5.com wrote: >>> On Aug 8, 2:32 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > training would base a solution on the supernatural in a sci.med > group? You're kidding right ? I asked you a question, why do you find it absurd ? Have you ever searched for God and His Presence, or is that also something science ruled from the start as ridiculous ? This isn't sarcasm by the way, I'm trying to uncover the ROOT of your bias. > Because you yourself and others like you demand >> faith be exterminated, or simply because praying to someone unseen [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > unconnected thoughts in a manner that is not reflected in day to day > reality. Are you demonstrating it here ? Not at all, it looks like a question to me. Can you answer honestly without bring the known rules of science into this, or is that asking to much of you to do some deep introspection of your personal values based on what you see in the world verses what science dictates to you ? >> I have some news for you Mary, I smoked 3 packs a day 15 years >> ago. I tried several things to quit and none did any good including [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > recognised psychological manouver. It does not constitute proof of a > Creator, at least not in a sci. group. And your answer above is not proof that the scientific conclusion you stated above applies in every circumstance. You have not observed me in this situation so your conclusion is impractical and invalid. What would constitute proof of a creator in your eyes, and are you certain that you would recognize it as proof ? After all, God is an unknown factor thrown into the equation, how can a human know what to expect of something that reaches beyond his senses ? An electron cannot be seen with the naked eye, yet it's affects CAN be seen. I see no scientists running around decrying the existence of electrons, have you ? If you answer these questions then we have a valid reason to discuss this topic, otherwise your observations in your first post will go into file 13 as "cheap shots". Rod snip > this topic, otherwise your observations in your first post will go > into file 13 as "cheap shots". > > Rod I don't care where you file my posts. You're digging for my "bias" has _nothing_ to do with a purported doctor resorting to the supernatural in a sci group. If someone complained that the wheel fell off his car in rec.autos and a mechanic came back and said it was God's will, that would be a sufficient explanation for you would it ? Mary convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > snip > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > fell off his car in rec.autos and a mechanic came back and said it was > God's will, that would be a sufficient explanation for you would it ? For the why, it would be a sufficient explanation because anything else would still be subject to GOD's will and only GOD knows HIS reason for causing the wheel to fall off. With GOD, the mechanic would then be able to explain how GOD caused the wheel to fall off the car just as he might possibly be able to explain how the wheels fell of the chariots of Pharaoh's army: http://TruthRUS.org/RedSea Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/press.asp Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist On Aug 9, 8:35 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > the wheel to fall off the car just as he might possibly be able to > explain how the wheels fell of the chariots of Pharaoh's army: You might be able to fool the rubes with this nonsense, but it won't wash with me. It's not good theology,good philosophy, or good science. > http://TruthRUS.org/RedSea If you believe this even after its been exposed as a fraud, then you've really lost touch with reality. > Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: > > http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/press.asp The repeated links to sites where you self-publicize do you no credit. > Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, > > Andrew <>< > -- > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > Cardiologist Mary convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > wash with me. It's not good theology,good philosophy, or good > science. Without the LORD, your opinion is meaningless (Ecclesiastes). > > http://TruthRUS.org/RedSea > > If you believe this even after its been exposed as a fraud, then > you've really lost touch with reality. Without the LORD, your beliefs are meaningless (Ecclesiastes). > > Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: > > > > http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/press.asp > > The repeated links to sites where you self-publicize do you no credit. GOD's purpose for me here remains to inform and not to receive credit. Many thanks, much praise, and all the glory to GOD for HIS compelling you to unwittingly reveal that GOD's purpose for me here is being realized. May HE bless you in HIS mighty way making you healthier (hungrier) than ever. Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist On Aug 9, 12:10 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > Cardiologist I can understand that my beliefs might seem meaningless to you, but I value them more than the foolishness that you want to promote. Let anyone google 'Ron Wyatt Red Sea' and they'll soon find http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/ . If you consider your purpose for being here is to promote scams, then it's the devil rather than God who is directing you. Mary convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > I can understand that my beliefs might seem meaningless to you, but I > value them more than the foolishness that you want to promote. Without the LORD, what you value is also meaningless (Ecclesiastes). > Let > anyone google 'Ron Wyatt Red Sea' and they'll soon find http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/ > . > > If you consider your purpose for being here is to promote scams, then > it's the devil rather than God who is directing you. Many thanks, much praise, and all the glory to GOD for HIS compelling you to unwittingly admit that you believe in the devil, who was created by GOD as archangel Lucifer and became satan after unwisely blaspheming the Holy Spirit. This simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict you: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/PressRelease Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist On Aug 9, 1:41 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > Cardiologist Saying that the devil exists is not the same as worshipping the devil as you clearly do. Over and over you post as if you were the father of lies himself, you despicable little man. May God forgive you. Mary convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > Saying that the devil exists is not the same as worshipping the devil > as you clearly do. Similar false charges were levelled against LORD Jesus Christ, Who responded with the following words: "A house divided against itself can not stand." > Over and over you post as if you were the father > of lies himself, you despicable little man. It remains my choice to continue writing truthfully. The same can not be written about you. > May God forgive you. HE has: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Christ.asp The brethren of LORD Jesus Christ are neither perfect nor more special... ...we are simply forgiven by GOD: http://www.interviewwithgod.com/forgiven/ May you wisely choose to be forgiven too by publicly declaring with your mouth that "Jesus is LORD:" http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist On Aug 10, 10:08 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > > Similar false charges were levelled against LORD Jesus Christ, Who Charges of devil worship against the Lord Jesus Christ are of course false, charges of you emulating satan by writing blasphemies and lies are supported by your own posts. I am comfortable in my relationship with God, you are clearly twisted though I hope that even at this late hour you are not beyond redemption. Continue blaspheming the Holy Spirit and hell awaits you. Mary convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldy wrote: > > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > > > > "A house divided against itself can not stand." Amen. > > > Over and over you post as if you were the father > > > of lies himself, you despicable little man. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Charges of devil worship against the Lord Jesus Christ are of course > false, As are charges of devil worship against HIS brethren. Bottomline: You are untruthful. > charges of you emulating satan by writing blasphemies and lies > are supported by your own posts. Without the LORD, your opinions are meaningless (Ecclesiastes). > I am comfortable in my relationship with God That is not what I discern. Jesus is GOD. > , you are clearly twisted though I hope that even at this late > hour you are not beyond redemption. Not only already redeemed but brought back from death by HIM: http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/PressRelease > Continue blaspheming the Holy Spirit and hell awaits you. Actually, those who unwisely choose to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit as you are contemplating become eternally condemned. Only Jesus can save you from your deadly sins... http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay ... but if you unwisely choose to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, HE won't save you: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/55b9f72abe5705dc? "And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven." -- LORD Jesus Christ Amen. Clearly, the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict you: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts May GOD bless you in HIS mighty way making you healthier (hungrier) than ever: http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/PressRelease Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist On Aug 10, 12:32 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 172 lines] > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > Cardiologist Get thee behind me satan, your lies are posted for all to see. Mary convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 165 lines] > > Get thee behind me satan, your lies are posted for all to see. Indeed satan's lies are everywhere: http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease Many thanks, much praise, and all the glory to GOD for HIS compelling you to unwittingly expose satan, who is your lord. You will remain in my prayers, dear neighbor Mary, whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist On Aug 10, 2:17 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 184 lines] > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > Cardiologist Your tricks won't work here Dr. Chung. The Lord God whom I love unconditionally is the only love I seek. When you seek to accuse me you only reveal how deeply you have sunk doing the devil's work. Begone foul beast, and I write directly to you satan and not his minion, the demon "Dr. Chung". I fear you not, for the Lord hath Power and it is His Love which protects me. Mary convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 179 lines] > > Your tricks won't work here Dr. Chung. Praying to my Father in heaven, in Jesus' holy and precious name, is not a trick. > The Lord God whom I love > unconditionally is the only love I seek. Suggested reading: http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/fear.asp Reverently fear GOD and dread nothing that is of this world: http://TruthRUS.org/DreadNought > When you seek to accuse me > you only reveal how deeply you have sunk doing the devil's work. It remains my choice to continue to receive the guidance of the Holy Spirit in everything I say, do, and write. http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3faf87cdc00c08f1? This simply shows that HE is absolutely right to convict you: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts > Begone foul beast, and I write directly to you satan and not his > minion, the demon "Dr. Chung". Your false witness is forgiven by me. > I fear you not, for the Lord hath > Power and it is His Love which protects me. Your lord, satan, has had all his power stripped from him since LORD Jesus Christ confronted him in hell prior to being resurrected. All he has left is his lies and even they are being exposed: http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/PressRelease Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/press.asp Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist On Aug 10, 3:55 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > Praying to my Father in heaven, in Jesus' holy and precious name, is > not a trick. Misuse of words in support of your lies is your oldest trick satan. You will not fool me, for the Lord God in His Love and Mercy protects me and forces you to show yourself for what you are > > The Lord God whom I love > > unconditionally is the only love I seek. > > Suggested reading: I have no need of your works satan, with God's Blessing The Holy Bible instructs me well enough to recognize his minions and their evil works. Be gone foul one! Mary > On Aug 10, 3:55 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" > <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > > > Suggested reading: > I have no need of your works satan, with God's Blessing The Holy Bible > instructs me well enough to recognize his minions and their evil > works. Be gone foul one! It will be interesting to see if your rebuke has any more effect than does Andrew's long-running King Canute impression. -- cary > On Aug 10, 2:17 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" > <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 228 lines] > > Mary KOOK FIGHT! On Aug 10, 2:17 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: > Indeed satan's lies are everywhere: > > http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease Praise to God that he has forced you to unwittingly admit your lies. Mary convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > Praise to God It remains my choice to praise HIM all the time :-) > that he has forced you It remains GOD's infinite will that all souls retain HIS generous gift of free will. Your not knowing this is very telling. It is satan's style to keep folks in the dark about GOD. > to unwittingly admit your lies. It remains my choice to continue to write truthfully. Sadly, the same can not be written concerning your writings: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3faf87cdc00c08f1? This simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict you: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts You will remain in my prayers, dear neighbor Mary whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > It remains my choice to praise HIM all the time :-) > > that he has forced you > It remains GOD's infinite will that all souls retain HIS generous gift > of free will. > > Your not knowing this is very telling. It is satan's style to keep > folks in the dark about GOD. Either that, or your constant "... to GOD for compelling you to..." -- cary > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Either that It is that. > , or your constant "... to GOD for compelling you to..." Many thanks, much praise, and all the glory to GOD for HIS compelling you to unwittingly show that HE has not forced you to do anything :-) This simply means that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict you: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist On Aug 10, 6:32 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > Cardiologist When you decided to lie, you sold your soul to the devil. It is obvious from your posts that you then went even lower and made yourself host to a demon. God preserves the free will of human souls but manipulates demons as suits His Great Purpose. Thus He forced you to expose your own lies. Your tricks will not work here satan. I pray that one day, God Willing, the soul of Dr. Chung will find strength in itself to ask Our Lord God, Creator of Heaven and Earth to be rid of the foul pest which now inhabits his body. A foul pest which has issued forth blasphemy upon blasphemy and lie upon lie. Mary convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > When you decided to lie It remains my choice to continue to write truthfully. One of us is lying. Those with discerning hearts know which. > , you sold your soul to the devil. Incorrect. My soul has been purchased by LORD Jesus Christ with HIS blood: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Christ.asp > It is > obvious from your posts that you then went even lower and made > yourself host to a demon. It saddens me to read that you have unwisely chosen to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit by calling HIM a demon. "And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven." -- LORD Jesus Christ Amen. You have now become satan's sockpuppet (corporeal demon) because your soul has died under the weight of eternal condemnation by GOD. Without a soul you no longer have GOD's generous gift of free will and instead you will continue to do only satan's will: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/55b9f72abe5705dc? In Jesus' most precious and holy name, I rebuke you, demon and your lord, satan. Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Servant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords. >> It is >> obvious from your posts that you then went even lower and made [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Mary is right. You are the one who is the demon, you with the incretins in your saliva and ejaculate that smells like emesis, Demon Chungfraud. My discerning heart detects that you're more interested in your own net.notoriety than actually leading people to Christ. Everything about you is phony, perverse, corrupt. > On Aug 10, 12:32 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <...> > Get thee behind me satan, your lies are posted for all to see. > > Mary Not for me to see. Only my kill file sees him. A recommended change to your computer. > satan via a sockpuppet (demon) wrote to himself: > > > Get thee behind me satan, your lies are posted for all to see. > > Not for me to see. They remain in your heart, however: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/PressRelease May GOD bless you in HIS mighty way making you healthier (hungrier) than ever. Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist On Aug 9, 12:10 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Without the LORD, your opinion is meaningless (Ecclesiastes). That's your opinion, and from your replies so far, your opinion is of less and less interest to me. Especially when you promote scams like the one below. I've been wondering how anyone who was interested in maintaining a professional standing could stoop so low. The obvious answer is that you have already written off your career and you're simply engaged in silly power games on Usenet. I wish you could see how small your posts make you look. > > >http://TruthRUS.org/RedSea > > Many thanks, much praise, and all the glory to GOD for HIS compelling > you to unwittingly reveal that GOD's purpose for me here is being > realized. If you're promoting Ron Wyatts Red Sea scam, you're doing the devils work and serving the devil's purpose. That you cannot see that merely proves my point. > May HE bless you in HIS mighty way making you healthier (hungrier) > than ever. > > Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, When you do the devil's work and sign it in Jesus' love then you are blaspheming. You've convicted yourself. > Andrew <>< > -- > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > Cardiologist Mary convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > simply engaged in silly power games on Usenet. I wish you could see > how small your posts make you look. It remains my choice to continue standing by LORD Jesus Christ, Who makes everyone beside HIM seem small :-) > > > >http://TruthRUS.org/RedSea > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > work and serving the devil's purpose. That you cannot see that merely > proves my point. The Red Sea crossing is neither a scam nor does it belong to Ron Wyatt. It remains one of GOD's miracles. Here's another one for those who are interested... http://TruthRUS.org/DreadNought And another... http://PatsysMiracle.com Your disbelief simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict you: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/ Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist On Aug 9, 6:56 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: > convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > The Red Sea crossing is neither a scam nor does it belong to Ron > Wyatt. Oh no you don't demon! You won't get away with misinterpreting what I wrote. You support lies even when they are revealed as such. Ron Wyatt constructed a scam about the crossing of the Red Sea. The truth of the bible account of the Red Sea crossing is there for all to see. You twist and you turn under the light of Truth Chung-demon but those whom The Lord has blessed with discernment have no time for your misdirections and lies. I pray that God will choose in His Infinite Mercy will rid Dr. Chung of his demon and return him to The Light. Mary your stupid,stone-age mythology has no place in reality-much less in science. religion makes you stupid,and you and chunks are fine examples of the evil that is religion. we will and are stamping out this rediculous and dangerous belief. >your stupid,stone-age mythology has no place in reality-much less in >science. More Bronze Age, really. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "[Republicans] talk about Reagan the way gay guys talk about Barbra Streisand." -- Bill Maher "Rod" <kc0oeb@NO-SPAMatt.net> wrote in message news:ljnui.2335 > What you, some in the medical communtiy, the professional communtiy, > and myself were to lame to do for me God did. So, in my view your opinions > of God come in weighing really weak and anemic. > > Rod Actually, Rod, your view of other peoples opinion of mythology simply isn't important.... irritating, but not important. John > rela...@router5.com wrote: > > On Aug 8, 2:32 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > -- Well look here, it's "Rod" trying to play "Christian". I've got some news for you "Rod", you aren't a christian. You are a filthy reprobate swine that will spend eternity with the devil and his company. If it will make you feel any better, I'll be watching you......BURNING IN HELL!!!!!!!!!!!! Have a BLESSED Day, Rev. BR Collins > On Aug 8, 2:32 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" > <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Mary. I tried hypnosis once. The therapist kept mentioning cigarettes. He said the word so many times that all I remember about the experience is the word "cigarettes." I was so happy to get out of there so I could have a cigarette. John On Aug 9, 6:37 am, "johnniemccoy@" <johnniemc...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote: > <rela...@router5.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > John If I'd had your experience, I would have been glad to get out of there too. Hypnotherapy isn't very well regulated. That's why I specified clinical hypnosis. Taking someone into a hypnotic state is pretty easy. It's what you do once they are in the state that makes the difference. Mary convicted neighbor Mary (rela...@router5.com) wrote: > > convicted neighbor Mary (<rela...@router5.com>) wrote: > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > easy. It's what you do once they are in the state that makes the > difference. Without GOD's help, the clinician will simply not do the right thing. GOD is the Source of all righteousness. Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/press.asp Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist >> ok, sister is going to have 4-5 bypass surgery Monday. > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > heart so that she can choose to quit smoking cigarettes, it is > possible that HE will. As much as you've accomplished, you don't seem to be able to discern fact from opinion. How do you explain people quitting, with a belief in any type of god? SignatureNotan >>> ok, sister is going to have 4-5 bypass surgery Monday. >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > How do you explain people quitting, with a belief in any type of god? That was supposed to be "WITHOUT a belief..." SignatureNotan > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > As much as you've accomplished, you don't seem to be able to discern > fact from opinion. Without the LORD, your thoughts are meaningless (Ecclesiastes). > How do you explain people quitting, with a belief in any type of god? GOD is able to help whomever HE chooses to help even when the whomever does not believe in HIM. HE is omnipotent. Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/press.asp Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist <religious rhetoric snipped> What bothers me is that you took a space, in school, that someone who could have made a difference could have had. As an MD/PhD, make that *two* spaces. SignatureNotan > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > As an MD/PhD, make that *two* spaces. "Coveting is a sin." -- Holy Spirit Amen. This simply shows that you are lost: http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/dream.asp The brethren of LORD Jesus Christ are neither perfect nor more special... ... we are simply forgiven by GOD: http://www.interviewwithgod.com/forgiven/ May you wisely choose to be forgiven too by publicly declaring with your mouth that "Jesus is LORD:" http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist <blabbering snipped> Keep going, Andrew. You're digging yourself in, deeper, with every post. SignatureNotan > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > You're digging yourself in, deeper, with every post. Writing is not digging. Bottomline: You are untruthful. This simple shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict you: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/press.asp Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, You're a waste of perfectly good air, Andrew. Or would you prefer to be called "doctor?" SignatureNotan > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > You're a waste of perfectly good air, Andrew. Without the LORD, your opinion is meaningless (Ecclesiastes). > Or would you prefer to be called "doctor?" GOD's purpose for me here remains to inform and not to receive glory. May HE bless you in HIS mighty way making you healthier (hungrier) than ever. Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: >>>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > May HE bless you in HIS mighty way making you healthier (hungrier) > than ever. Your degrees mean nothing. Underneath it all, you're nothing but a thumper, something that I'm sure God isn't happy about. Good luck. You're gonna need it. SignatureNotan > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: <snip> > >> You're a waste of perfectly good air, Andrew. > > |
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