Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / August 2007
Mexico Warns Diabetes May Bankrupt Health System
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Kurt - 08 Aug 2007 00:15 GMT http://diabetes.org/diabetesnewsarticle.jsp?storyId=15658220&filename=20070803/r euters20070803health00000013reutershealthewEDIT.xml
or
http://tinyurl.com/yrcs5t
(excerpt)
MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Rocketing levels of diabetes threaten to cripple Mexico's already strained health services, as Mexicans spurn exercise and healthy eating in favor of heavy foods and sugary soft drinks, the government said on Thursday.
Health Secretary Jose Cordova warned expensive treatment for diabetes, Mexico's No. 1 cause of death in recent years, would bankrupt the country's health system within the next decade if illness levels were not controlled.
Nearly 6.5 million Mexicans are diabetic, a figure that is expected to grow to 11 million by 2025.
Cordova said the problem was mostly cultural in a country where greasy meat tacos and Coca-Cola are often considered a normal breakfast.
Måck©® - 08 Aug 2007 00:16 GMT >http://diabetes.org/diabetesnewsarticle.jsp?storyId=15658220&filename=20070803/r euters20070803health00000013reutershealthewEDIT.xml > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Cordova said the problem was mostly cultural in a country where greasy >meat tacos and Coca-Cola are often considered a normal breakfast. Mexico has a health system?
 Signature Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"
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KC - 08 Aug 2007 07:23 GMT >>http://diabetes.org/diabetesnewsarticle.jsp?storyId=15658220&filename=20070803/r euters20070803health00000013reutershealthewEDIT.xml >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Mexico has a health system? Yep, I was looking into moving there at one point. They do have a health system. What I learned on a bulletin board type group of American Ex-patriots was that it is a pretty good health system for when big stuff goes wrong, but that it can be long lines for when small stuff goes wrong. For small stuff, the ex-patriots paid privately for house calls instead of using the goverment health services. Private doctors there cost alot less than in the US though.
I personally think educating (for free or cheap) a whole bunch of doctors here in the US might go a long way to solve our problems. We have a shortage of doctors now, and they have big student loans to pay off, so that drives the prices here up. There are other issues as well, but upping the supply of doctors here could do alot to reduce medical costs here.
KC
Måck©® - 08 Aug 2007 09:47 GMT >Yep, I was looking into moving there at one point. They do have a health >system. What I learned on a bulletin board type group of American [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >using the goverment health services. Private doctors there cost alot less >than in the US though. I was being sarcastic. A well liked poster who hasn't posted in quite sometime, Tony From Mexico, used to share with this group first hand experience with the Mexican health care system. We learned of many problems with the system there.
>I personally think educating (for free or cheap) a whole bunch of doctors >here in the US might go a long way to solve our problems. We have a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >KC Mexico has a very high number of quack doctors. And I mean "quack" as in idiots who know very little about real medicine and have no problem scamming people.
Lowering the standards went along with lower costs in education in Mexico. But even with the higher costs and higher standards here in the USA, we have a flawed system that allows idiots, nutters and scammers to become licensed doctors. Chung is a perfect example of what happens in a flawed medical system.
We need tighter oversight and more honest and more detailed reporting to the patients of a doctors actual work history that includes any and all complaints and charges filed against him and the results of the findings and actions taken to correct or punish. Here in the USA doctors "self report" such things. So what happens is that if they are sued or censured or banned from practice in one state and move to another state, they don't tell on themselves and their records won't follow them.
 Signature Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt
(o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins
DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... .
Frank t2 - 09 Aug 2007 14:53 GMT Sure, Mexico has a health system ...
It operates out of the US ...
<I should feel bad about that one>
"Måck©®" <trolls@renotworthsaving.net> a écrit ...
>>http://diabetes.org/diabetesnewsarticle.jsp?storyId=15658220&filename=20070803/r euters20070803health00000013reutershealthewEDIT.xml >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Mexico has a health system? Cheri - 09 Aug 2007 16:07 GMT Frank t2 wrote in message <46bb1c3d$0$30416$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-05.noos.net>...
>Sure, Mexico has a health system ... > >It operates out of the US ... > ><I should feel bad about that one> You beat me to it Frank. :-)
Cheri
Frank t2 - 10 Aug 2007 03:48 GMT It was unfair .. It was the middle of the night and I wasn't doing anything else !
"Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> a écrit ...
>>Sure, Mexico has a health system ... >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Cheri Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 08 Aug 2007 00:23 GMT > http://diabetes.org/diabetesnewsarticle.jsp?storyId=15658220&filename=20070803/r euters20070803health00000013reutershealthewEDIT.xml > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Cordova said the problem was mostly cultural in a country where greasy > meat tacos and Coca-Cola are often considered a normal breakfast. This irrational compulsion to overeat arising from the world's great lie about hunger is destroying the U.S. health care system already:
http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/press.asp
Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist
johnniemccoy@ - 08 Aug 2007 00:47 GMT > http://diabetes.org/diabetesnewsarticle.jsp?storyId=15658220&filename=20070803/r euters20070803health00000013reutershealthewEDIT.xml > > Health Secretary Jose Cordova warned expensive treatment for diabetes, > Mexico's No. 1 cause of death in recent years, ..................... No! I don't care who says so. I refuse to believe that diabetes is the No.1 cause of death in Mexico. Maybe people in Mexico, who show high blood glucose levels and who die of conditions that "can be" caused by diabetes are amoung the Top in statistics but, given the living and social conditions in Mexico, I think this is one of those diabetes "streached" statements.
John
Will, T2 - 08 Aug 2007 01:01 GMT >streached" What is a streached statement, John? Are we to take it as a combination of streatched and bleached? Hence, "streached"?
Ha... You are one funny guy, dude. I love ya!
Will, T2
johnniemccoy@ - 08 Aug 2007 01:27 GMT >>streached" > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Will, T2 I mean a "let's talk about diabetes and whip up a statistic" or, "let's attribute a statistic to daibetes" type of statement.
John
dumb_fishie99@yahoo.com - 08 Aug 2007 01:03 GMT >> http://diabetes.org/diabetesnewsarticle.jsp?storyId=15658220&filename=20070803/r euters20070803health00000013reutershealthewEDIT.xml >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >are amoung the Top in statistics but, given the living and social conditions >in Mexico, I think this is one of those diabetes "streached" statements. I think it could very well be right. My b/f works as a Spanish Intrepeter in the courts, interpreting for Mexicans who don't speak English mostly, and he told me the rate of diabetes among mexicans is very high. It's a problem because in the prisons they don't get very good care.
Think about what they eat.....
Will, T2 - 08 Aug 2007 01:19 GMT >I think it could very well be right. My b/f works as a Spanish >Intrepeter in the courts, interpreting for Mexicans who don't [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Think about what they eat..... It is not just the prisons, which are a problem, I admit, since I see it myself all the time. The typical diet for many poor Mexicans, wonderful people that they are, is very high in carbs. Many of them have pronounced and ample VAT (visceral adipose tissue), which has been strongly associated with metabolic syndrome and diabetes.
Yes, I agree, fishie, in the prisons, they get a "lick and a promise" so to speak. Very inadequate rations most of the time, punctuated with the occasional adequate meal. At least, that is what I see around here, and I represent dozens of them every year.
Will, T2
johnniemccoy@ - 08 Aug 2007 01:32 GMT >>> http://diabetes.org/diabetesnewsarticle.jsp?storyId=15658220&filename=20070803/r euters20070803health00000013reutershealthewEDIT.xml >>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Think about what they eat..... Maybe they take their statistics from prison deaths.... or something. But, doesn't it seem like one of those exagerated "Diabetes In The News" type articles? Not the whole article... the article makes sense...just the No. 1 (implied direct) cause of death part.
John
John
dumb_fishie99@yahoo.com - 08 Aug 2007 05:14 GMT >Maybe they take their statistics from prison deaths.... or something. But, >doesn't it seem like one of those exagerated "Diabetes In The News" type >articles? Not the whole article... the article makes sense...just the No. 1 >(implied direct) cause of death part. I dunno if it is exagerrated or not....
my b/fsays that it's probably around 30% who know they are diabetic, and need meds. So there are probably a lot more who don't even know they have it.
He says mexicans, more than other hispanics from South or Central American countries, are prone to it because they have a higher percentage of native american genes. The native americans are more prone to diabetes because they ahve only recently had reason to adapt to a steady food supply with lots of carbs, and to not getting quite so much exrecise as you do when you are on the go looking for food all time in the wild. And the reason they have a higer percentage of native american genes is because, like, they had an empire, before the europeans came along.
I think he figures it's 30% just from talking to them.
Alan S - 08 Aug 2007 04:48 GMT >Cordova said the problem was mostly cultural in a country where greasy >meat tacos and Coca-Cola are often considered a normal breakfast. The greasy meat is probably good for them - it's the taco wrap and coke they should be worrying about:-)
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/ latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management
jeissner777@aol.com - 08 Aug 2007 13:31 GMT > On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:15:10 -0700, Kurt > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The greasy meat is probably good for them - it's the taco > wrap and coke they should be worrying about:-) Why the smiley? You are right though about the taco shells and wraps - they are made of corn or (mostly white)flour with lots of leche. Mexican also eat a lot of rice. And you are wrong about the greasy meat - it isn't good for them. Is it good for you?
Vaya con dios, Jay ~~~ The right time to eat is: for a rich man when he is hungry, for a poor man when he has something to eat ~Mexican Proverb
Alan S - 08 Aug 2007 14:38 GMT >> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:15:10 -0700, Kurt >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Jay >~~~ The smiley is wry, because of the assumption in the comment on the article. The implication was that the meat was as bad as the coke. I disagree strongly.
What is good or bad for them in their economic and nutrition situation is relative. Portion size is also relevant. For a diabetic, given the choice between excesses of greasy meat or starch - then the greasy meat in my humble opinion is very much the lesser of two evils.
We could argue for a while over whether meat, greasy or otherwise, is good or bad for them - but it would be a bit silly not knowing specifics. So my comment was general and we'll have to agree to disagree.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/ latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management
jeissner777@aol.com - 10 Aug 2007 12:52 GMT > On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 05:31:49 -0700, jeissner...@aol.com > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > What is good or bad for them in their economic and nutrition > situation is relative. No, as Mr. Cordova said: it's cultural, and cultural problems are (generally) only relative to outside observers.
Portion size is also relevant.
Yes, especially when you can't afford three squares.
For a
> diabetic, given the choice between excesses ofgreasymeat > or starch - then thegreasymeatin my humble opinion is > very much the lesser of two evils. Quite right, but Mexicans (just like the rest of us) do not live on greasy meat alone. The reason greasy meat tacos and Coca-Cola are often considered a normal breakfast in Mexico is because it often is the only food many Mexicans can afford. (Maize is Mexico's de facto national food and heavily subsidized and Coke is safer than water and cheaper than other more sensible drinks.)
> We could argue for a while over whether meat, greasy or > otherwise, is good or bad for them - but it would be a bit > silly Correct, especially since I am not 'arguing whether meat, greasy or otherwise, is good or bad for them'.
not knowing specifics.
But *I* do know some of the specifics and both of us (I assume) are able to get the ones we lack.
So my comment was general and we'll have to agree to disagree.
This thread isn't about generalities such as meat being better than carbs. It's about a nation with a 110 million people warning that diabetes may bankrupt it's health care system, a problem that should concern all of us because Mexico is not an island on a planet in the Andromeda nebula. On this planet the problem is universal and is caused by perhaps well-intended but very misguided food subsidies and the unbridled capitalism driving our food processing industries.
Jay ~~~ Aegrescit medendo ~ Horace
Alan S - 10 Aug 2007 15:34 GMT >> On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 05:31:49 -0700, jeissner...@aol.com >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] >Jay >~~~ The thread may not be about meat being better than carbs for Mexican diabetics - but my comment was. I took this threadlet in the direction I chose because, no matter how bad the situation is in that country, a poor understanding at the top level of the basic nutritional problems exacerbating diabetes is not going to help.
If you want to make a political statement and take the thread back to where you think it belongs - feel free. But don't start preaching at me, mate. I don't misunderstand the gravity of the overall problem, nor do I disparage the people; in fact I feel for them. I'm looking forward to traveling that country myself very soon and have spent a little time reading in advance. Tunnel vision may help you focus on some issues - but a bit of peripheral vision and a glance at some side issues may help your friends more than railing at strangers who don't happen to agree with your solution.
There are also over 30 million diabetics in India and tens of millions of others in other countries around the world. Whatever the situation in Mexico your simplistic politics does not offer a world solution.
Incorrectly treated type 2 in a world of increasing obesity is a problem of vast proportions. I don't have the answers - but I'm damn sure that when they are found they will have a lot more to do with a better understanding of the relationship between diet, nutrition, exercise and diabetes than it will have to do with "misguided food subsidies and unbridled capitalism".
Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
jeissner777@aol.com - 12 Aug 2007 15:24 GMT > The thread may not be about meat being better than carbs for > Mexican diabetics - but my comment was. I've noticed you are in the habit of hijacking threads. And you always seem to take them down the same cul de sac.
I took this
> threadlet in the direction I chose because, no matter how > bad the situation is in that country, a poor understanding > at the top level of the basic nutritional problems > exacerbating diabetes is not going to help. Where did I or the article say there is 'a poor understanding at the top level of the basic nutritional problems exacerbating diabetes'?
> If you want to make a political statement and take the > thread back to where you think it belongs - feel free. The thread started here. And it's about a Mexican politician making a political statement about diabetes in his country.
But
> don't start preaching at me, mate. I'm not your mate, bubba.
I don't misunderstand
> the gravity of the overall problem, nor do I disparage the > people; in fact I feel for them. Feeling for them is not good enough.
I'm looking forward to
> traveling that country myself very soon and have spent a > little time reading in advance. Tunnel vision may help you > focus on some issues - but a bit of peripheral vision and a > glance at some side issues may help your friends more than > railing at strangers What friends? What strangers? What are you talking about?
who don't happen to agree with your
> solution. What solution?
> There arealsoover 30 million diabetics in India and tens > of millions of others in other countries around the world. > Whatever the situation in Mexico your simplistic politics > does not offer a world solution. Again - where did I offer a solution? And what have I written that can be interpreted as "simplistic politics"?
> Incorrectly treated type 2 in a world of increasing obesity > is a problem of vast proportions. Really?
I don't have the answers -
Then act like you don't.
> but I'm damn sure that when they are found they will have a > lot more to do with a better understanding of the > relationship between diet, nutrition, exercise and diabetes > than it will have to do with "misguided food subsidies and > unbridled capitalism". Tunnel vision may help you focus on some issues - but a bit of peripheral vision...
Jay ~~~ Aegrescit medendo. ~ Horace
dumb_fishie99@yahoo.com - 12 Aug 2007 23:10 GMT How do you pronounce jeissner?
johnniemccoy@ - 13 Aug 2007 22:05 GMT > How do you pronounce jeissner? "JEISSNER"
John (sorry... dumb but I couldn't resist)
Frank t2 - 13 Aug 2007 23:21 GMT Oh boy, have you got yourself a client !
"johnniemccoy@" <johnniemccoy@NOSPAMhotmail.com> a écrit ...
>> How do you pronounce jeissner? >> > "JEISSNER" > > John > (sorry... dumb but I couldn't resist) Gantlet - 10 Aug 2007 16:42 GMT > Quite right, but Mexicans (just like the rest of us) do not live on > greasy meat alone. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > heavily subsidized and Coke is safer than water and cheaper than other > more sensible drinks.) they also sell bottled water.
I dont know many people in Mexico but I do have family there. My Mother and Sister inlaw are both diabetic. My mother in law is pretty old and my sister inlaw much younger and alot heavier. My brother inlaws are all very healthy. if you compare the diets between my brother and sister inlaws you will find that the biggest difference is what we have always known as being junk food. cookies, cakes and candies. be they high in fat or low in fat i dont blame diabetes too much on the meals but feel what is eaten between meals is where the problem is.
are the typical type 2 diabetics in mexicao also very heavy? if so I would find it odd that mexicos poor is fatter than those with money.
>> We could argue for a while over whether meat, greasy or >> otherwise, is good or bad for them - but it would be a bit >> silly > > Correct, especially since I am not 'arguing whether meat, greasy or > otherwise, is good or bad for them'.
> not knowing specifics. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Jay i think the problem is more that everyday our lives are becoming easier and easier. when I was a kid Man Hunt, Baseball, Football and other acitivities is what was done to have fun. today most kids still play football and other activiities except now the work is done by an image on a tv or computer.
as our lives become easier and easier it makes it so much more important to do some kind of exercise or just pretend you only have a bike and not a car, only have stairs and no elevator. There was a time that if you wanted cake you had to make it your self, There was even a time that if you wanted cake you even had to make the butter that went into it and it was all done by hand. The human body was not designed to sit down as much as most soon to be diabetic are doing.
our lives are becoming more static and the worst kinds of foods are at our figner tips. I would never be holding a bag of potato chips while playing football but have found it very easy while playing a video game.
 Signature Tom
www.TomsDiabeticDiary.com
Chat in peace with other diabetes at the American Diabetes Associations Web Site. http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=index&webtag=amdiabetesz&redi rCnt=1
Information You Can "Trust" From Your American Diabetes Association www.diabetes.org
Information on Specific Types of Fat. http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-recipes/nutrition/foodlabel/specific-fats.jsp
jeissner777@aol.com - 12 Aug 2007 14:55 GMT > <jeissner...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > they also sell bottled water. Odds are bottled still water is at least as expensive as "sugary" water, and it doesn't have the kick
> I dont know many people in Mexico but I do have family there. > My Mother and Sister inlaw are both diabetic. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > if so I would find it odd that mexicos poor is fatter than those with > money. According to the article 20% of all Mexicans subsist on less than $1 a day. That implies that not only are most of these people not getting proper nutrition, they most likely are unable to even eat on a regular basis. Factor in that the "diabetes gene" seems to be more prevalent in America's native peoples (well over 80% of all Mexicans have some Indio blood) than in other populations, being fat may not be as important a factor in developing the disease as it is in populations where quantity, not quality of food appears to be the main culprit (besides the "gene") in causing diabetes.
[snip]
> i think the problem is more that everyday our lives are becoming easier and > easier. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > have found it very easy > while playing a video game. Good analysis of the situation we are in and I hope you have the discipline to use your knowledge to your advantage.
Ciao, Jay ~~~ Only the educated are free. ~ Epictetus
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