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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / August 2007More Crazy BG's
Just when I thought I could anticipate bg's - a little roller coaster ride. I have, basically, the same dinner every night - meat, large salad (tomato, lettuce, onion, olives, grapes, crumbled blue cheese, yellow bell pepper and ranch dressing), ice cream with cherry pie filling topping for dessert - or - strawberries dipped in fake yogurt for dessert. I drink either a few diet Dr. Peppers or 2 non-alcoholic beers. My normal bg at bedtime (2 hours after dinner) - 100 - 120. Life goes on with little or no surprise. Except last night - 2 hour bg 69 - 10 minutes later - 76. WTF? Last night, I think, was the first time I've tested after drenching my lettuce in balsamic vinegar (thanks, again, to whoever turned me on to that delightful stuff). Could we have invented the "Balsamic Cure?" Will we get rich from it? Will wealth spoil us? Will I ever get another chance to nail those two girls from the yacht? If vinegar lowered bgs that much I'm sure we'd have heard about it, loudly, by now. I'm wondering if it, in combination with other specifics in my particular diet could have an effect - or, if washing the car at midnight could have done it (I'll eat the vinegar but 'm not washing the damned car at midnight every night). John (maybe I've just reached puberty) > Just when I thought I could anticipate bg's - a little roller coaster > ride. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > could have done it (I'll eat the vinegar but 'm not washing the damned car > at midnight every night). Actually, vinegar is purported to lower BG. Some people drink it before eating. It's also purported to help with weight loss. > Just when I thought I could anticipate bg's - a little roller coaster > ride. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > could have done it (I'll eat the vinegar but 'm not washing the damned car > at midnight every night). > John > > (maybe I've just reached puberty) I guess I should have Googled before posting. Seems like vinegar is an issue.. lots of sites. Here's just one of them: http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2475 John Cool, the article you posted says vinegar may be able to help with weight loss as well as diabetes. Now, I am going to have to experiment with it more. Thank goodness I found balsamic vinegar recently because I really hate other vinegars. KC >> Just when I thought I could anticipate bg's - a little roller coaster >> ride. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > John > Cool, the article you posted says vinegar may be able to help with weight > loss as well as diabetes. Now, I am going to have to experiment with it [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > > John Balsamic vinegar, and a little olive oil, works for me as a salad dressing. I (almost) don't miss mayonnaise. Sharah T2 >Balsamic vinegar, and a little olive oil, works for me as a salad >dressing. I (almost) don't miss mayonnaise. What's wrong with mayo? Make it from scratch if the pre-made stuff you buy is too carby, then you know it's not going to spike you. Not that there's anything wrong with a nice vinaigrette.. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >> Cool, the article you posted says vinegar may be able to help with weight >> loss as well as diabetes. Now, I am going to have to experiment with it [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >Sharah >T2 A trick I use for mayo is to make up a dressing of 1/2 full-fat real Mayo and 1/2 unsweetened 2% fat home-made yoghurt. Add chopped herbs to taste and maybe a little chopped chili or mustard powder. Sometimes some chopped capers or chives. The yoghurt adds a slightly different texture and flavour while cutting the fat down with minimal extra carbs. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/ latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management > On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 01:34:55 -0700, Sharah > [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforesthttp://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ > latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management Sounds good. Have you tested it with french fries? When I was a student late night snacks of french fries and mustard mayo were my brain restorative:-) Sharah T2 >Sounds good. Have you tested it with french fries? When I was a >student late night snacks of french fries and mustard mayo were my >brain restorative:-) > >Sharah >T2 I'm afraid I reserve my ration of chips(fries) for those times when I steal a few of my wife's plate. If I dip them in anything (rare) it would be ketchup. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/ latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management Alan S wrote in message ... >I'm afraid I reserve my ration of chips(fries) for those >times when I steal a few of my wife's plate. If I dip them >in anything (rare) it would be ketchup. If I was going really going to dip them in anything, it would be gravy. I used to love fries and gravy when I was a kid. Sometimes we would go to this little restaurant which had the best, "but that was yesterday, and yesterdays gone." :-) Cheri > On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 02:25:16 -0700, Sharah > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforesthttp://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ > latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management Well I guess you could risk one chip on a mustard mayonnaise test. How about chips with vinegar? Sharah T2 D&E >Well I guess you could risk one chip on a mustard mayonnaise test. >How about chips with vinegar? > >Sharah >T2 D&E As that's the way she likes them and I steal them off her plate - I don't get a choice there:-) At least it appears vinegar may help the BG's - but not enough I'm afraid. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/ latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management > I guess I should have Googled before posting. Seems like vinegar is an > issue.. lots of sites. Here's just one of them: > http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2475 > > John So by chance you fell into something. Vinegar Improves Insulin Sensitivity to a High-Carbohydrate Meal in Subjects With Insulin Resistance or Type 2 Diabetes - http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/27/1/281 First, Acetic acid is contained in vinegar. Second, Acetic acid is produced when ethanol (as in wine, beer, etc.) is metabolized. Alan will like this note. ;) I came across the following in a google group search of blood+glucose+ acetic+acid, but did not verify the science involved: "...acetic acid is the next oxidation product of ethanol, and these things usually happen in sequence (actually, ethanAL, the aldehyde is next, but no matter). But the issue is not whether CV (cider vinegar) is a magical cure-all. I believe the poster conceded that ALL vinegars have some effect. And although it is true that acetic acid itself is essentially a VERY short chain fatty acid, with no putative dietary requirements, wierder things have happened. It is curious that a wretched molecule like acetic acid should be the mainstay in salad dressings! I maintain interest in this because of my own very wierd cravings for vinegar (and heavy cream, by the pint!), which I do not think occur in a vacuum. If I may speculate a little on acetic acid. Acetic acid is the unactivated precursor to acetyl-CoA, which is fed right into mitochondrial TCA cycle. Other posters have assured me that acetic acid is in fact activated, like any other fatty acid, for final entry into this TCA cycle. However, it may have an advantage of not needing the transport machinery to get into the mitochondria (as do regular activated FAs), or, it may be transportable elsewhere. It is unusual, at the very least. Next, acetic acid is definitely not absorbed in the same way as free fatty acids or triglycerides, as it is NOT a lipid, yet it is metabolized as a short chain fatty acid. But in the meantime, it is floating around in the blood as acetic acid. What is interesting about this is that the pK of acetic acid renders it essentially intact (un-ionized, ie, a weak acid), which gives it a certain mobility across cell membranes, and also means it probably contributes negligibly to pH loading, or acidifying, of the blood. (This is no doubt going to cause furor here!) Which means it could have some small-molecule regulatory effects. It's also handy to have around if esters need to be made. Nothing to write home about perhaps, but interesting nonetheless. Regarding the acidifying of blood issue, it could be that some people need whatever amount of pH loading it does provide, or for some reason need it as part of the blood buffering system." The hand is quicker than the eye. ;) Frank >> I guess I should have Googled before posting. Seems like vinegar is an >> issue.. lots of sites. Here's just one of them: [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > >Frank Thanks for the great post, Frank... Will, T2 >Second, Acetic acid is produced when ethanol (as in wine, beer, etc.) is >metabolized. Alan will like this note. ;) I double dip. I often use olive oil and vinegar as my salad dressing base - and then wash the salad down with a sip of red:-) Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/ latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management >If vinegar lowered bgs that much I'm sure we'd have heard about it, loudly, >by now. I'm wondering if it, in combination with other specifics in my >particular diet could have an effect - or, if washing the car at midnight >could have done it (I'll eat the vinegar but 'm not washing the damned car >at midnight every night). Vinegar does - usually not Balsamic, which is pretty sugary, but a nice cider or wine vinegar, or even just some pickles with a meal, can lower your bg noticeably. So can washing the car, of course... it's interesting that you went so low; that implies that something had turned off the liver's contribution. I tend to use alcohol for that, but 2 beers isn't likely to do that to a male who's used to that level. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >>If vinegar lowered bgs that much I'm sure we'd have heard about it, >>loudly, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Nicky. ......non-alcoholic beers John >Life goes on with little or no surprise. Except last night - 2 hour bg 69 - >10 minutes later - 76. WTF? Last night, I think, was the first time I've >tested after drenching my lettuce in balsamic vinegar (thanks, again, to >whoever turned me on to that delightful stuff). Could we have invented the >"Balsamic Cure?" Will we get rich from it? Will wealth spoil us? Will I >ever get another chance to nail those two girls from the yacht? It probably was not the vinegar, John.... Balsamic has a significant sugar content. Will, T2 : Just when I thought I could anticipate bg's - a little roller coaster ride. : I have, basically, the same dinner every night - meat, large salad (tomato, : lettuce, onion, olives, grapes, crumbled blue cheese, yellow bell pepper and : ranch dressing), ice cream with cherry pie filling topping for dessert - : or - strawberries dipped in fake yogurt for dessert. I drink either a few : diet Dr. Peppers or 2 non-alcoholic beers. My normal bg at bedtime (2 hours : after dinner) - 100 - 120. Just a small question here. What is fake yogurt? Isn't it made from milk? Wendy >: Just when I thought I could anticipate bg's - a little roller coaster ride. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Wendy Yeah - I was wondering too:-) One of my personal "healthy food rules" is that "fake" or imitation food is out. I prefer foods that owe their production more to the farmer than the chemical company. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/ latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management >>: Just when I thought I could anticipate bg's - a little roller coaster >>ride. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Cheers, Alan If it tastes good, I eat it. John >If it tastes good, I eat it. > >John You're a joker John, so I'm hoping that's as true as your Monday night neighbour-annoying grills and music. If not, the joke's not on us. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/ latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management >>If it tastes good, I eat it. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Cheers, Alan, The average person would look in my fridge and say, "Hmmm, another natural food health nut." But I enjoy the low carb processed treat foods, also. Those I call "fake foods." ... fake beer, fake ice cream, fake yogurt, fake jelly, fake chocolate syrup and so on....lol John John : >>If it tastes good, I eat it. : >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] : Those I call "fake foods." ... fake beer, fake ice cream, fake yogurt, fake : jelly, fake chocolate syrup and so on....lol : John : John John, I repeat, What is fake yogurt made of? I hve only seen eithe rdairy milk or sy milk yogurt. What makes your yogurt fake? Wendy > : >>If it tastes good, I eat it. > : >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Wendy I dunno.. ask Dannon. John > : Just when I thought I could anticipate bg's - a little roller coaster > ride. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Wendy Dannon's Light & Fit Carb and Sugar Control Yogurt. Like my non-alcoholic beer is fake beer, My Breyers CarbSmart Ice Cream is fake ice cream.... hehe. John : > : Just when I thought I could anticipate bg's - a little roller coaster : > ride. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] : beer is fake beer, My Breyers CarbSmart Ice Cream is fake ice cream.... : hehe. : John So you mean, yogurt with artificial sweeteners, etc. Well that is real yogurt just the additives iare fake. Now i understand. Yogurt is really just the milk and bacteria parat, the rest is just window dressing, as you can get plain yogurt and add to it whatever you like, real or artificial. sorry to nit-pick, but this kind of "home " definition, like "fake yogurt" really send me a different message like something made form milk, or othe rsubstance, with lemon juice to sourness adn something else, like cornstarch for thickener to imitte the flavor and texture or yogurt. sound totally yuukky to me. Wendy > : > : Just when I thought I could anticipate bg's - a little roller > coaster [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Wendy See, ya learned something today. Now you know what fake yogurt is....hehe John : > : > : Just when I thought I could anticipate bg's - a little roller : > coaster [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] : > : See, ya learned something today. Now you know what fake yogurt is....hehe : John Nope! I have only learned what YOU, think i is. artificially sweetened yogurt is REAL yogurt with fake flavorsing or sweetening. Wendy > : > : > : Just when I thought I could anticipate bg's - a little roller > : > coaster [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > Wendy Hey, it's my term. I said "fake yogurt." That makes it mine. I get to define it. John : > : > : > Just a small question here. What is fake yogurt? Isn't it made : > from [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] : Hey, it's my term. I said "fake yogurt." That makes it mine. I get to define : it. : John So what happens when someone "invents" a non-dairy, yogurt look-alike and kidna taste-alike? that woud be real, genuine, fake yogurt, so would you think that both are the same and should be called the same thing? Wendy > : > : > : > Just a small question here. What is fake yogurt? Isn't it > made [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Wendy No, it wouldn't. That would make it plagerism. If they try to use the term "fake yogurt" I will sue them. I have established, beyound doubt, what fake yogurt is. It's my term. If somebody tries to use it for something else, they're gonna be in real trouble. I'll move next door to them... seriously, I will. John : > : > : > : > Just a small question here. What is fake yogurt? Isn't it : > made [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] : they're gonna be in real trouble. I'll move next door to them... seriously, : I will. : John So what will happen if the yogurt company that makes what you call "fake yogurt" takes you to court for slander, etc as they use REAL yogurk, just fake sugar? Do you plan on gettign Will to represent you? Wendy > : > : > : > : > Just a small question here. What is fake yogurt? Isn't > it [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > > Wendy I don't want to talk about it anymore. John > So what will happen if the yogurt company that makes what you call "fake > yogurt" takes you to court for slander, etc as they use REAL yogurk, just > fake sugar? Do you plan on gettign Will to represent you? I'm looking for a yogurt made of rice. It's called Ricera. Can't seem to find it in my area. I want it for Angela. She used to love yogurt. I never did like the stuff. : > So what will happen if the yogurt company that makes what you call "fake : > yogurt" takes you to court for slander, etc as they use REAL yogurk, just : > fake sugar? Do you plan on gettign Will to represent you? : I'm looking for a yogurt made of rice. It's called Ricera. Can't seem to : find it in my area. I want it for Angela. She used to love yogurt. I : never did like the stuff. O know you don't eat soy products, but can Angela? They do have soy yogurts that she might like. Wendy > I have, basically, the same dinner every night - meat, large salad > ...blah, blah.blah.... you read the rest, already. Well, it did it again last night. Bg after about an hour and a half - 81. The only thing I'm doing different is the vinegar... balsamic, at that. Reading all the reports about vinegar is fine but what I'd like to see is somebody else here who runs 140-120, or there abouts, at 1 and 2 hours try it just to see what happens with real people.... a good hefty dose on a salad at dinner. (a "real people" is somebody right here right now). I can't see something as common as vinegar having such a dramatic effect... and if it did, why isn't somebody screaming it from the rooftops? John >> I have, basically, the same dinner every night - meat, large salad >> ...blah, blah.blah.... you read the rest, already. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > effect... and if it did, why isn't somebody screaming it from the > rooftops? It has been mentioned many times before. But some of us don't like the taste of vinegar. I will give it a test i will eat somthing that semi spikes me and see if a couple tbsp vinager lowers it and i will try it when at my norm basline to see if theres a change.. Dunno when im gonna try this tho but ill post the results. KROM >>> I have, basically, the same dinner every night - meat, large salad >>> ...blah, blah.blah.... you read the rest, already. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > It has been mentioned many times before. But some of us don't like the > taste of vinegar. >>> I have, basically, the same dinner every night - meat, large salad >>> ...blah, blah.blah.... you read the rest, already. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> effect... and if it did, why isn't somebody screaming it from the >> rooftops? > It has been mentioned many times before. But some of us don't like the > taste of vinegar. Aha! The acetic acid pill! $$$$$! Kaching says the cash register!  SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] >I can't see something as common as vinegar having such a dramatic effect... >and if it did, why isn't somebody screaming it from the rooftops? John, I have a salad as part of dinner most nights, with a vinaigrette dressing. Sometimes I use Balsamic, most often I use wine or cider vinegar. It does drop my bg, maybe by 10-20 points in your numbers. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >>I can't see something as common as vinegar having such a dramatic >>effect... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Nicky. Jennifer should file vinegar under, "Tips & Tricks" for diabetics. John On Aug 5, 10:55 pm, "johnniemccoy@" <johnniemc...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote: > "johnniemccoy@" <johnniemc...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message > I can't see something as common as vinegar having such a dramatic effect... > and if it did, why isn't somebody screaming it from the rooftops? > > John They are screaming, John, your music is just up too loud to hear them : 0 Andrew > On Aug 5, 10:55 pm, "johnniemccoy@" <johnniemc...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Andrew That could be it. John >> I have, basically, the same dinner every night - meat, large salad >> ...blah, blah.blah.... you read the rest, already. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > it just to see what happens with real people.... a good hefty dose on a > salad at dinner. (a "real people" is somebody right here right now). > I can't see something as common as vinegar having such a dramatic effect... > and if it did, why isn't somebody screaming it from the rooftops? Because you can't make a profit from something that is already very cheap and widely available. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] >> I can't see something as common as vinegar having such a dramatic effect... >> and if it did, why isn't somebody screaming it from the rooftops? > >Because you can't make a profit from something that is already very >cheap and widely available. And at the point they labeled it medicinal, it would jump in price to about $30.00 a bottle. ;-) Cheri >>> I can't see something as common as vinegar having such a dramatic >effect... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Cheri Good thing that didn't happen with chicken soup :) |
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