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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / August 2007Reversed or "cured". That is the question
"Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed their diabetes. Now I'm not looking for opinions on what you think a person should do to attempt to reach that goal, I would like to know if any of you have actually become "no longer a diabetic." I had an MD say that diabetes is reversible. I'm not sure if that meant curable. I'm looking for testimonials from actualy people. This is a question with a "yes" or "no" answer. You were a diabetic and now you are not a diabetic. Plain and simple. Ok. You are probably thinking "well if people have had it reversed and became normal then they wouldn't be here on this group." Ok then. How about...do you know of anyone personally--friend or relative--who has reversed their diabetes completely to where their BG is within the normal range (non-diabetic) no matter what was eaten and no medication was taken and you or someone has gone on with their merry life and never had to worry about it ever again--not a temporary thing. I apologize for sounding blunt or demanding but please just the facts. Opinions are important, but I'm not asking for opinions, Thanks :) > "Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- > I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > or demanding but please just the facts. Opinions are important, but > I'm not asking for opinions, Thanks :) Aside from women who recover completely (at least for a while) from Gestational Diabetes, the answer is NO. By the time your pancreas can no longer keep up with BG to the point that you are diagnosable, there has already been damage done to its capacity. That damage is irreversible. Sorry. Denial is never pretty. Jim >> "Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- >> I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Jim In my 30+ years as a diabetic, I have exactly the same experience as JC on this one. anyone who claims differently on this one is a liar.  SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . >> "Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- >> I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Jim Actually, I'm only a part-time diabetic. I'm diabetic in the morning and after meals. The rest of the time I'm perfectly normal. John >Actually, I'm only a part-time diabetic. I'm diabetic in the morning and >after meals. The rest of the time I'm perfectly normal. > >John Hi John, I don't think it works that way. Otherwise you could sleep through the diabetes and not have it phase you in the least ;-) Will, T2 And your neighbours would agree ... "johnniemccoy@" <johnniemccoy@NOSPAMhotmail.com> a écrit ... > Actually, I'm only a part-time diabetic. I'm diabetic in the morning and > after meals. The rest of the time I'm perfectly normal. > > John > "johnniemccoy@" <johnniemccoy@NOSPAMhotmail.com> a écrit ... >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > And your neighbours would agree Damn, they sleep soundly. John >Actually, I'm only a part-time diabetic. I'm diabetic in the morning and >after meals. The rest of the time I'm perfectly normal. > >John so sorry. who in their right mind wants to be "perfectly normal"? {{shudder}}. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . > "Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- > I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > or demanding but please just the facts. Opinions are important, but > I'm not asking for opinions, Thanks :) Yeah, SugarQueen, your sweet love totally cured me...now gimmie some ice cream! Andrew (SugarKing) > "Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- > I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed > their diabetes. Now I'm not looking for opinions on what you think a > person should do to attempt to reach that goal, I would like to know > if any of you have actually become "no longer a diabetic." In whose opinion? If you want to be diagnosed by a doctor as no longer diabetic you first have to find a doctor who believes that it's possible, and then if your condition convinces that doctor you have to choose to believe that doctor rather than thoe other doctors. There are a few folk walking around of whom doctors say, "We must have been mistaken in our original diagnosis of diabetes, because you clearly are not diabetic now, and since diabetes is not curable, you therefore can't have been diabetic then." Since there is some agreement that pre-diabetes is reversible, and if unchecked it can develop into diabetes which is irreversible, there will necessarily be a grey area of mistaken diagnosis at the boundary between the two. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] >In whose opinion? If you want to be diagnosed by a doctor as no longer >diabetic you first have to find a doctor who believes that it's [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >will necessarily be a grey area of mistaken diagnosis at the boundary >between the two. One of my daughters was diagnosed as T2 diabetic 15 yrs. ago... She went on a diet, exercised... did all the right stuff. It seemingly went away, although I doubted that it was gone. Sure enough, a year an a ahlf, or so ago, she was diagnosed as diabetic again... I think what must have happened was that she was actually pre-diabetic before, postponed the hardcore case, by shaping up, and then resumed the downhill slide into true diabetes. She used to go through a whole case of sodas every week... Will, T2 >>In whose opinion? If you want to be diagnosed by a doctor as no longer >>diabetic you first have to find a doctor who believes that it's [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Will, T2 Will, your answer made the most sense. T-2's can possibly control diabetes by diet and exercise. I just went to a MiniMed carb counting class before I got my pump. Both these T-2's were overweight, get no exercise, one has an A1C of 9.5, doesn't check her bg and has had a pump for over 6 years. I am a T-1 and will always have to take insulin. I weigh 140 and take about 20 units of Novolg a day. I check myself at least 6 times a day & by getting a pump at age 67 I hope to lower my A1C from 7.2 to 6.0. I was taking insulin 5 times a day because I had to split the Lantus dose. (long story) Charlie in SC T-1 since 1971 <snip> > One of my daughters was diagnosed as T2 diabetic 15 yrs. ago... She > went on a diet, exercised... did all the right stuff. Without eating less, down to the right amount, all is not right. > It seemingly went away, although I doubted that it was gone. Without eating less, down to the right amount to become hungrier (healthier), the visceral adipose tissue (VAT) would persist. > Sure enough, a year an > a ahlf, or so ago, she was diagnosed as diabetic again... Not surprising when VAT persists. > I think what must have happened was that she was actually pre-diabetic > before, postponed the hardcore case, by shaping up, and then resumed > the downhill slide into true diabetes. She used to go through a whole > case of sodas every week... That would be overeating and so VAT would persist. Sad to read this about your daughter. It remains wiser to eat less, down to the optimal amount to lose the VAT, cure the IR/MetS, and possibly cure the type-2 diabetes: http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Healing This completely free Approach comes with an unprecedented million- dollar guarantee: http://TruthRUS.org/Guarantee Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist > > "Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > clearly are not diabetic now, and since diabetes is not curable, you > therefore can't have been diabetic then." This would be a circular argument where greater faith is placed on type-2 diabetes being incurable than on the reliability of the type-2 diabetes diagnosis. Meanwhile, our bariatric surgeons are touting a surgical cure for type-2 diabetes. > Since there is some agreement that pre-diabetes is reversible, and if > unchecked it can develop into diabetes which is irreversible, there > will necessarily be a grey area of mistaken diagnosis at the boundary > between the two. No such thing as a grey area of mistaken diagnosis. If there were, there would no longer be any grounds for medical malpractice liability for mistaken diagnoses. Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist Our friend from atlanta was of the opinion: "No such thing as a grey area of mistaken diagnosis. If there were, there would no longer be any grounds for medical malpractice liability for mistaken diagnoses." All the more evidence in the area of diabetes and related metabolic disorders to ignore the above source. Inthe past couple of decades the arbitrary point to diagnose diabetes has steadily come down as measured by glucose levels. Diabetes is a stage in a range of metabolic disorders, it is not a black and white definition in the gray areas of its course. Unless and untill any opinion of the above source has been confirmed independently by expert sources first, it is best to ignore opinions coming from it. God bless. >"Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- >I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >or demanding but please just the facts. Opinions are important, but >I'm not asking for opinions, Thanks :) Neither I nor anyone I know has been "reversed" or "cured". I do know several people who now have indicators which, to a casual doctor, may lead to a lack of diagnosis: normal A1c, normal FBG. But, as soon as those people eat a significant carb load their meters would show a BG above normal range. I only need to eat a single banana after breakfast to prove that to myself. However, I am convinced that those people who maintain good control will stave off complications much longer than those who aren't, so it is well worth the effort. But they aren't cured. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/ latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management Sugar Queen, there is no cure and there is no reversal. There is remission. If a person complies and does everytthing right that person will live life like a non diabetic. But if that person has a binge of say a whole cake, the high numbers will be back. > Sugar Queen, there is no cure and there is no reversal. Untrue. > There is remission. Remission would describe the diagnosis of lymphoma and not diabetes. > If a person complies and does everytthing right that person > will live life like a non diabetic. Such a person would no longer have the diagnosis of diabetes written in his/her medical record if with normal HgbA1c, normal FBG, no medications and on a normal diet. > But if that person has a binge of > say a whole cake, the high numbers will be back. It is possible to bring about high post-prandial blood glucose numbers in everyone by overfeeding with a whole cake and yet not everyone has diabetes. Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist .. then follow me to Lourdes .. ;))) "Loretta Eisenberg" <sassybklynlady@webtv.net> a écrit ... > Sugar Queen, there is no cure and there is no reversal. There is > remission. If a person complies and does everytthing right that person > will live life like a non diabetic. But if that person has a binge of > say a whole cake, the high numbers will be back. >.. then follow me to Lourdes .. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> will live life like a non diabetic. But if that person has a binge of >> say a whole cake, the high numbers will be back. Uh, Frank... I don't think many people here understand the mystique of Lourdes.... Will, T2 Will, T2 wrote in message ... >Uh, Frank... I don't think many people here understand the mystique of >Lourdes.... > >Will, T2 Oh, I'm pretty sure most of them do. Cheri >Will, T2 wrote in message ... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Cheri Well, in that case, party on dudes.... Will, T2 Will, T2 wrote in message <3biva350avq1a1efgftqq5mkfrb2qpve9s@4ax.com>... >>Will, T2 wrote in message ... >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Will, T2 As soon as my diabetes is cured. ;-) Cheri Will, if it is the movie I saw with Jennifer Jones, I do know the mystique. If not, then I forgot it with age. lol Loretta What, you're saying they can't read ? Everyone knows about Lourdes ! Ya big tease. "Will, T2" <wmmckee@cox.net> a écrit ... >>.. then follow me to Lourdes .. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Will, T2 >"Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- >I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed >their diabetes. No - and you'll never find a single person who can make that claim, because it's an impossibility. "Well controlled" - yes, you'll find a cluster of us here, lots over on the Bernstein forum, others scattered around. "Cured" - no. Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 > No - and you'll never find a single person who can make that claim, > because it's an impossibility. Well, not a rational, sane person, no. We see one individual (who clearly falls into other groups than "sane" and "rational") make the claim. Then again, he makes lots of unsupportable and irrational claims. -- The 10mg Lizard-Spit Approach is not a diet. It does help people manage their Diabetes Mellitus (DM) possibly preventing long-term complications resulting from poor control. Bottom line: It remains wise to be peanut-free. May your BG and A1c get better, dear neighbor whom I communicate with unconditionally. Be well, travel with a light heart and a low A1c [Gene, 3:16] Prayerfully in Lizard-Spit's awesome love, Gene Goldman http://heartmdphd.com/Convicts/ T2 Metformin, Lizard-Spit, Aspartame, Nutrisweet, Sacarin Consuming copious amounts of Aspartame-laden soft drinks with reckless abandon! Give me NutraSweet over peanuts any day! Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 2007. All rights reserved. > "Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- > I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > or demanding but please just the facts. Opinions are important, but > I'm not asking for opinions, Thanks :) Hi Sugar Queen, In answer to your question, I could go to the doctor now, get a FBG and an A1C and my tests would come out normal. I manage by diet and exercise. My diet is lower carb. However if the doctor were to do a glucose tolerance test on me, which entails ingestings 75 grams of carbs at one time, I would fail. So I "appear" to be non-diabetic, but I'm not. That said, there are people who are overweight and sedentary, who have "pre-diabetes". They haven't caused too much damage to the pancreas yet. If they lose weight and start exercising, their BGs will become normal. However, if they return to their previous ways, they will again be on the road to diabetes. Best regards, Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise SugarQueen wrote in message >personally--friend or relative--who has reversed their diabetes >completely to where their BG is within the normal range (non-diabetic) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >or demanding but please just the facts. Opinions are important, but >I'm not asking for opinions, Thanks :) No. Cheri > "Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- > I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > or demanding but please just the facts. Opinions are important, but > I'm not asking for opinions, Thanks :) Exercise seemed to be the key for me. when I was first diagnosed even a very small amount of carbs would give me high numbers. Once I started to exercise I was able to eat much larger amounts of carbs and have better numbers even with out medications. if someone were to ask me what is the most important thing a diabetic can do when diagnosed.. EXERCISE. SignatureTom www.TomsDiabeticDiary.com Chat in peace with other diabetes at the American Diabetes Associations Web Site. http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=index&webtag=amdiabetesz&redi rCnt=1 Information You Can "Trust" From Your American Diabetes Association www.diabetes.org Information on Specific Types of Fat. http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-recipes/nutrition/foodlabel/specific-fats.jsp > > "Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- > > I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > - Show quoted text - You are right, Tom. Exercise is the single most noticeable lifestyle change that has helped me to get my numbers down. Continued, progressive, sweating, grunting, "I hate this, I hate this...hey, I feel pretty good" exercise. The more the merrier. Not discounting diet (or meds for those that need them). I think D&E go together because you need good fuel if you are going to exercise. But exercise can cover some pretty bad meal choices from time to time. Andrew t2 D&E a1c5.5 hoodyup@yahoo.com wrote in message <1185910342.374669.77180@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>... >> > "Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- >> > I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> >> Chat in peace with other diabetes at the American Diabetes Associations Web Site.http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=index&webtag=a mdia... >> Information You Can "Trust" From Your American Diabetes Associationwww.diabetes.org >> >> Information on Specific Types of Fat.http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-recipes/nutrition/foodlabel/ spe...- Hide quoted text - >> - Show quoted text - > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Andrew t2 >D&E a1c5.5 Yes, true, but that wasn't the question SugarQueen asked, and excercise won't *cure* diabetes. Cheri > Yes, true, but that wasn't the question SugarQueen asked, and > excercise won't *cure* diabetes. > > Cheri- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I know, Cheri, and that seems to be the consensus -- there is no known cure, only good ways to fight it. Apparently a Pancreas can only stand so much abuse, and it can't stands no more. Once you have diabetes you must own it, and daily come out swingin' to knock it down into it's place. SugarQueen is just hoping that I'll buy some ice cream at the store....Dang her Norwegian Pancreas! ;-P Andrew t2 (still) hoodyup@yahoo.com wrote in message >I know, Cheri, and that seems to be the consensus -- there is no known >cure, only good ways to fight it. Apparently a Pancreas can only [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Andrew t2 (still) LOL, sounds like you two have a great relationship. :-) Cheri > You are right, Tom. Exercise is the single most noticeable lifestyle > change that has helped me to get my numbers down. Continued, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > because you need good fuel if you are going to exercise. But exercise > can cover some pretty bad meal choices from time to time. I agree. I rode my bike early this morning for about 40 minutes to work. I stopped when I got near my office and I picked up a bagel with some sliced lox and a bit of cream cheese to eat for breakfast once I got to my office. About 90 minutes later, my BG was around 104. I can't say it loud enough. For T2 diabetics, regular exercise is by far the best method to keep your blood sugar down. You don't have to be a champion athlete; just a brisk 20 minute walk each day does wonders. > "Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- > I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > or demanding but please just the facts. Opinions are important, but > I'm not asking for opinions, Thanks :) Not me personally, but my mother-in-law seems to have escaped. She was diagnosed a number of years ago, was on oral meds and practised diet and exercise control. She no longer requires meds, is on a 'normal' diet and has normal BG numbers. I have no idea what happened. Was she mis-diagnosed? Did she have some extreme temporary situation? >> "Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- >> I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >has normal BG numbers. I have no idea what happened. Was she >mis-diagnosed? Did she have some extreme temporary situation? "She no longer requires meds, is on a 'normal' diet and has normal BG numbers." Have you ever tested her an hour after breakfast? Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/ latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management >>> "Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- >>> I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Have you ever tested her an hour after breakfast? No, I haven't. But all the tests she's had in the last few years have been in the normal range. Again, I have no numbers. > > Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. > d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg > Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. Cheri, you are one funny lady. Loretta >Not me personally, but my mother-in-law seems to have escaped. She was >diagnosed a number of years ago, was on oral meds and practised diet and >exercise control. She no longer requires meds, is on a 'normal' diet and >has normal BG numbers. I have no idea what happened. Was she >mis-diagnosed? Did she have some extreme temporary situation? Ray, was MIL on a course of steroids at the time? From what I understand, steroid treatment can induce "temporary" diabetes (for lack of a better term) I seem to remember a poster here once (peasand carrots or something like that) who seemed to "recover" from diabetes. Does anyone remember the poster I'm talking about? She lived in a house built into a hill or something like that. Been a long time since she's been here. Her daughter was going on a journey on the Appalacian trail last time I remember hearing from her. Laura@notmy.com wrote in message ... >Ray, was MIL on a course of steroids at the time? From what I >understand, steroid treatment can induce "temporary" diabetes (for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >long time since she's been here. Her daughter was going on a journey >on the Appalacian trail last time I remember hearing from her. She was from Vermont, but I'm not 100% sure of the name, Windy or Wendy from Vermont, or something like that. She used to get a little testy at times. :-) Cheri >Laura@notmy.com wrote in message ... > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Cheri Heh Heh...yeah. She could get a little cranky. ;-) If I remember correctly, she had a number of ailments, Myesthenia Gravis being one. I just remember that there was some mild controversy as to whether she was truly diabetic or not. She, living underground and running a co-op of some sort, was truly an Earth Mother. > >Laura@notmy.com wrote in message ... > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > was truly diabetic or not. She, living underground and running a > co-op of some sort, was truly an Earth Mother. I have a vague recollection of someone, perhaps her, having suffered from a serious medication error, where the medication given in error was one of the antipsychotic meds that's known to have severe negative effects on blood sugar. Her low-carbing coincided with getting the error corrected. SignatureAF "Non Sequitur U has a really, really lousy debate team." --artyw raises the bar on rec.sport.baseball >> Not me personally, but my mother-in-law seems to have escaped. She was >> diagnosed a number of years ago, was on oral meds and practised diet and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > long time since she's been here. Her daughter was going on a journey > on the Appalacian trail last time I remember hearing from her. That was Wendy from Maine. Peace and Carrots Farm. She also had MG (Billie!). Her husband posed in one of those fund raising calendars with naked local farmers. Vicki percy wrote in message ... >That was Wendy from Maine. Peace and Carrots Farm. > >She also had MG (Billie!). Her husband posed in one of those fund >raising calendars with naked local farmers. > >Vicki OK, thanks...Laura and I were close. :-) Cheri >She also had MG (Billie!). Her husband posed in one of those fund >raising calendars with naked local farmers. Gods - that's a scary thought! Hope it doesn't catch on round here - firemen I can cope with, and the Womens Institute ones are at least witty... Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 >> She also had MG (Billie!). Her husband posed in one of those fund >> raising calendars with naked local farmers. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > D&E, 100ug thyroxine > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25 It was those farmers' tan lines that were a sight to see! :-0 Vicki >>> Not me personally, but my mother-in-law seems to have escaped. She was >>> diagnosed a number of years ago, was on oral meds and practised diet and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Vicki Billie may find the "Links to My Diseases" page interesting: http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/ Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/ latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ latest: Self-Testing and Type 2 Management On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 02:50:05 +0000, Laura wrote: >>Not me personally, but my mother-in-law seems to have escaped. She was >>diagnosed a number of years ago, was on oral meds and practised diet and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > long time since she's been here. Her daughter was going on a journey > on the Appalacian trail last time I remember hearing from her. Not that I am aware of - that has been quite a number of years ago. > > "Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- > > I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > has normal BG numbers. I have no idea what happened. Was she > mis-diagnosed? Did she have some extreme temporary situation? There are a number of sources of hyperglycemia, not all of which have the same cause. Diabetes is diagnosed purely on the basis of hyperglycemia. The vast majority are "classical" diabetes, but there could be other reasons as well, although those are rarer. > "Sugar Queen" here aka Andrew's wife-- > I'd like to know if anyone in this group EVER completely reversed > their diabetes. Now I'm not looking for opinions on what you think a > person should do to attempt to reach that goal, I would like to know > if any of you have actually become "no longer a diabetic." I had an MD > say that diabetes is reversible. MDs are seeing the reversing/curing of type-2 diabetes in folks who lose their visceral adipose tissue (VAT). > I'm not sure if that meant curable. > I'm looking for testimonials from actualy people. This is a question > with a "yes" or "no" answer. You were a diabetic and now you are not a > diabetic. Plain and simple. Ok. You are probably thinking "well if > people have had it reversed and became normal then they wouldn't be > here on this group." Correct. Moreover, the folks in ASD are religiously biased to disbelieve any testimonials about type-2 diabetes being cured. > Ok then. How about...do you know of anyone > personally--friend or relative--who has reversed their diabetes > completely to where their BG is within the normal range (non-diabetic) > no matter what was eaten and no medication was taken and you or > someone has gone on with their merry life and never had to worry about > it ever again--not a temporary thing. I personally know former type-2 diabetics who now have FBGs and HgbA1c within normal (non-diabetic) range despite being off meds and on a regular non-ADA diet. They are using the 2PD-OMER Approach to keep from regaining the visceral adipose tissue (VAT) but this does not effect their regular diet. > I apologize for sounding blunt > or demanding but please just the facts. Opinions are important, but > I'm not asking for opinions, Thanks :) You are welcome. Redirecting all thanks and praises to GOD so that we will both be that much more blessed (hungrier). Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist Wow thank you all for you input. I'm going to take the conclusion/ answer to my question as a big 10-NO! Then the answer is if you have it, manage it to get the best results possible. Ok then. There is no hope of eating an entire chocolate cake with my husband in the future. Don't worry I won't eat it all alone. I won't even bake one. Sorry honeee, no ice cream. I'm not diabetic. I can eat a ton of sweets at one time with 0 that's 0 raise in BG. However, having a hubby that is T2 is making me feel a lot better because we eat pretty much the same foods except for my Yoplait pina colada yogurt and a peanut butter, raisin, and wholewheat bread sandwhiches. I'm younger than he is, so now is a good time for me to eat well too. I also cut out the sweets. Who needs all that sugary stuff anyway? Not me. I've cut out sugar in the decaf. I'm trying to get him to toss the artificial sweeteners and have the coffee and cream and that's it. Who needs all that weird stuff anyway? Bottom line--live well and eat right. It benefits a person with MS too. > Wow thank you all for you input. I'm going to take the conclusion/ > answer to my question as a big 10-NO! Then the answer is if you have [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > stuff anyway? Bottom line--live well and eat right. It benefits a > person with MS too. I have read reports that say having gastric bypass surgery seems to eliminate diabetes in those that have T2 going into the surgery. They say it works on about 90% of the people yet they don't know why or how. >> Wow thank you all for you input. I'm going to take the conclusion/ >> answer to my question as a big 10-NO! Then the answer is if you have [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >eliminate diabetes in those that have T2 going into the surgery. They >say it works on about 90% of the people yet they don't know why or how. they are misinforming the patients. SignatureMåck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . > >> Wow thank you all for you input. I'm going to take the conclusion/ > >> answer to my question as a big 10-NO! Then the answer is if you have [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > they are misinforming the patients. It is what they are observing: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1847605&blobtype=pdf or http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=17138229 Losing the VAT is the key: http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/27/7/1699 Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist > > Wow thank you all for you input. I'm going to take the conclusion/ > > answer to my question as a big 10-NO! Then the answer is if you have [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > eliminate diabetes in those that have T2 going into the surgery. They > say it works on about 90% of the people yet they don't know why or how. The bariatric surgery makes it essentially impossible to eat an excessive amount in the typical amount of time allocated for meals. It is the resulting loss of visceral adipose tissue (VAT) that cures the type-2 diabetes: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgitool=pubmed&pubmedid=17138229 or http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1847605&blobtype=pdf Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist >> I have read reports that say having gastric bypass surgery seems to >> eliminate diabetes in those that have T2 going into the surgery. They [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It is the resulting loss of visceral adipose tissue (VAT) that cures > the type-2 diabetes: Andrew, people with gastric bypass surgery are able to eat much less without hunger as their ghrelin levels are reduced. Another thing is that people with gastric bypass are counselled to eat their protein first, so that if they cannot handle any more food than that, they will at least get their protein requirements met. So, they are essentially low carbing, which also helps to reduce hunger. How can they possibly be losing VAT without hunger? You have said that people lose SAT, not VAT if they lose weight without accompanying hunger. KC > http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgitool=pubmed&pubmedid=17138229 > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > Cardiologist > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Andrew, people with gastric bypass surgery are able to eat much less without > hunger as their ghrelin levels are reduced. Incorrect. It is well-established that reduction in intake is due to the physical/ mechanical constraints because similar results have been observed for lap-gastric banding, which does not reduce ghrelin levels. Moreover, those who make a good recovery from gastric bypass surgery report more and not less hunger and report that it is the physical discomfort (pain) that stops them from eating more just as it is for people who have not had bariatric surgery. The difference is the amount of food before there is pain. Over time, this increases so that all experience some weight regain if they eat more when they become more able to do so. > Another thing is that people > with gastric bypass are counselled to eat their protein first, so that if > they cannot handle any more food than that, they will at least get their > protein requirements met. This would be the case for their official meals. This would not be the case for the snacking. > So, they are essentially low carbing, which also > helps to reduce hunger. However, they get carbs with the snacking if not with the meals and so they are actually hungrier. > How can they possibly be losing VAT without > hunger? They are hungrier and as they lose the VAT even more so. > You have said that people lose SAT, not VAT if they lose weight > without accompanying hunger. It is what I have written and it remains my choice to continue writing truthfully. > > http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=17138229 > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > > http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist > It is what I have written and it remains my choice to continue writing > truthfully. Liar SignatureAndrew Chung: Is a frequent and proven liar (evidence archived forever on Google) Has lost numerous NNTP accounts with supernews and others, has had many Google accounts nuked, and his vanity domain heartmdphd.com is now banned from setting up accounts. He is instead using multiple Google sock accounts and email addresses in the format love#@thetruth.com (# being a number) Is unemployed after being sacked with cause from his one and only job after just over 80 days Fled the state of Florida, and now claims to practice in Georgia despite having no admission priveliges in the State's hospitals Runs a phony foundation with a total declared income of circa $200, the ownership and contact details of which are obfuscated on its website Makes failed prophecies concerning earthquakes with areas and dates, which don't happen (remember the bible quotes about false prophets) Performed a public attempt at 'exorcising' a Malaysian sock on usenet, then denied doing it. He has recently reversed position again and admits to practicing exorcism by usenet, proving himself a liar in the process. Promotes a dangerous diet, with a million dollar guarantee that he demands thirty dollars to access details of. This despite being unemployed. His soliciting and spamming for donations looks to be similar to the Nigerian Advance Fee Fraud, where victims pay money upfront in the hope of coming into riches but find they have merely bought into a lie. Part of his advice is to pour nail polish remover onto food. Declares he has a cardiology practice despite posting night and day from the same IP address (his home presumably) or a coffee shop internet cafe Makes further false prophecies that we should now be all dying in a bird flu pandemic. When these fail to happen, he does them all over again and changes the dates. Nuclear war is another Chung spciality, which naturally doesn't happen when he says it is going to. Worships evil hatemonger Fred Phelps and will not denounce the acts of Westboro's congregation. He even accuses someone with the name Phelps of being Fred's son and refuses to accept he is completely wrong. Uses the same patter as Pat Robertson, indicating his religious activity is confined to watching cable TV. No evidence Chung has ever attended a church. Has a tendency to cyberstalk, particularly women. His wife fled some time ago to another state, an act which Chung tries to pass off as "being on vacation". Frequently passes himself off as being qualified in areas such as endocrinology, despite making incredibly fundamental blunders in his 'advice'. It is no wonder the Florida heart facility terminated him, and has publicly denounced his version of events. Again archived on Google. Don't forget the fake fast, where he didn't lose any weight, as well as the infamous 666 stamping fiasco. His latest vile trick is spamming the blogs of dying cancer patients and then crowing triumphantly when they pass away. On Aug 1, 2:18 am, Convicted poster Mr. Andrew B. Chung <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote: > It is what I have written and it remains my choice to continue writing > truthfully. If only you would, Mr. Chung. If only you would. "Quackery is a sin." -- Holly Spit Amen. Wiser to post less, down to the optimal amount thereby becoming a responsible person. http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.support.diabetes/msg/d559bc684dd89f -- Mr. Chung's on-line behavior simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right in convicting him. The 10mg Lizard-Spit Approach is not a diet. It does help people manage their Diabetes Mellitus (DM) possibly preventing long-term complications resulting from poor control. Bottom line: It remains wise to be peanut-free. May your BG and A1c get better, dear neighbor whom I communicate with unconditionally. Be well, travel with a light heart and a low A1c [Gene, 3:16] Prayerfully in Lizard-Spit's awesome love, Gene Goldman http://heartmdphd.com/Convicts/ T2 Metformin, Lizard-Spit, Aspartame, Nutrisweet, Sacarin "Unlike quacks pushing snake oil and fad diets, please consult a competent medical professional." Consuming copious amounts of Aspartame-laden soft drinks with reckless abandon! Give me NutraSweet over peanuts any day! Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 2007. All rights reserved. http://www.obesityresearch.org/cgi/content/abstract/12/2/346 >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > mechanical constraints because similar results have been observed for > lap-gastric banding, which does not reduce ghrelin levels. But gastric banding produces much smaller weight losses than gastric bypass, and also the "curing" of diabetes was much smaller with gastric banding: http://www.emaxhealth.com/cms/?m=show&id=6656 The difference is that gastric banding does not alter ghrelin and pyy levels. > Moreover, those who make a good recovery from gastric bypass surgery > report more and not less hunger and report that it is the physical [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that all experience some weight regain if they eat more when they > become more able to do so. KC > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > and also the "curing" of diabetes was much smaller with gastric banding: > http://www.emaxhealth.com/cms/?m=show&id=6656 Gastric banding is less invasive/radical surgery where the physical barrier to overeating is less daunting (less pain) and more easily overcome as folks get hungrier. > The difference is that gastric banding does not alter ghrelin and pyy > levels. Incorrect. See comments above. > > Moreover, those who make a good recovery from gastric bypass surgery > > report more and not less hunger and report that it is the physical [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > that all experience some weight regain if they eat more when they > > become more able to do so. It remains wiser to use the diabetic 2PD-OMER Approach to eat less, down to the optimal amount to become healthier (hungrier) to lose the VAT, cure the IR/MetS, and possibly even cure the type-2 diabetes: http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Healing This Approach is the non-surgical equivalent to bariatrics and comes with an unprecedented million-dollar guarantee: http://TruthRUS.org/Guarantee Be hungry... be healthy.... be blessed: http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist Our friend from atlanta has a huntch about diabetes: "It remains wiser to use the diabetic 2PD-OMER Approach to eat less, down to the optimal amount to become healthier (hungrier) to lose the VAT, cure the IR/MetS, and possibly even cure the type-2 diabetes:" All aspects of the two pound diet is based on trash science. Long term readers of our friend come to know this very quickly, so this is for new readers. snip "This Approach is the non-surgical equivalent to bariatrics and comes with an unprecedented million-dollar guarantee:" That form of weight reduction surgery causes a quick change in insulin resistence and glucose levels long before loss of vat and weight start to have an impact and the changes are due to increases in hormones not related to vat. When one loses vat and weight by calorie restriction the above changes take a long time to occurr and even then diabetes remains as measured by any of the standard glucose testing methods. It is not a cure of diabetes but a roll back of the symptoms of some aspects of diabetes with the underlying metabolic disorder remaining. Any of the science on which my comments are based can be offered on request. When our friend is shown the research, from many studies, he just ignores it. He does not keep up with research, he invents trash science in pursuit of a non-science agenda he also invented, heignores; as above; research shown him which refutes in part and whole the two pound diet and his agenda. For those continuing facts the truth is not in his unsupported opinions and those opinions can with full peace of mind be ignored. God bless. > This Approach is the non-surgical equivalent to bariatrics and comes > with an unprecedented million-dollar guarantee: prove it, liar. Post a link to a copy of a bank statement showing the million dollars. Flickr or imgshack both offer free image hosting. Do it now or be condemned as the liar and fraud we all know you are FR Iceman6409 <iceman6409@frontiernet.net> wrote in part: >> Wow thank you all for you input. I'm going to take the conclusion/ >> answer to my question as a big 10-NO! Then the answer is if you have [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >eliminate diabetes in those that have T2 going into the surgery. They >say it works on about 90% of the people yet they don't know why or how. Surely it is because there is a huge weight loss. The transition to normal bg doesn't take place until there is weight loss, does it? -- Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA > Surely it is because there is a huge weight loss. The transition to normal > bg doesn't take place until there is weight loss, does it? > -- Yes, it does. Normal bg is attained pretty quickly due to overall caloric restriction and due to the fact that bypass patients are instructed to eat mostly protein and some veggies, limiting fats and carbs. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > caloric restriction and due to the fact that bypass patients are > instructed to eat mostly protein and some veggies, limiting fats and carbs. Too bad they aren't just given the information about diet before they're talked into mutilating their bodies. :-( Especially considering the high rate of complications and mortality within a few years after gastric bypass surgery. Priscilla > Too bad they aren't just given the information about diet before they're > talked into mutilating their bodies. :-( Especially considering the > high rate of complications and mortality within a few years after > gastric bypass surgery. Priscilla, there's a large % of morbidly obese folks for whom diet doesn't work. There are folks with Cushing's who, due to nausea and anorexia from adrenal insufficiency, have no appetite and they still maintain morbid obesity. Lest you say this is rare, not when a test that misses most cases finds that 10% of all type 2 DMS test positive. :-/ Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Priscilla, there's a large % of morbidly obese folks for whom diet > doesn't work. They can't control their BG with dietary change? Perhaps dietary change plus meds, then. > There are folks with Cushing's who, due to nausea and > anorexia from adrenal insufficiency, have no appetite and they still > maintain morbid obesity. I thought we were talking about DM treatment. > Lest you say this is rare, not when a test that misses most cases finds > that 10% of all type 2 DMS test positive. :-/ I think you're misunderstanding what I'm talking about. I'm talking about treatment of diabetes, not intentional size change. Priscilla > They can't control their BG with dietary change? Yes and no. Depends upon their cortisol levels, which push up bg. My a1c, frex, is the highest it's been in the years I've been tested despite my post meal numbers being the consistently lowest ever. My premeal and fastings are higher due to cortisolemia. >Perhaps dietary change > plus meds, then. No, it doesn't defeat hypercortisolism and insulin and sensitizers bring on symptoms of adrenal insufficiency. I became Addisonian on metformin for that reason. > I thought we were talking about DM treatment. I was referring to gastric bypass patients. And to the fact that many DM patients have occult hypercortisolemia. > I think you're misunderstanding what I'm talking about. I'm talking > about treatment of diabetes, not intentional size change. I was addressing the gastric bypass exchange. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > I was addressing the gastric bypass exchange. Yes, but I'd thought the discussion of gastric bypass was in terms of "Reversed or cured" as it says in the subject line. That is reversal or cure of diabetes, yes? Priscilla > Yes, but I'd thought the discussion of gastric bypass was in terms of > "Reversed or cured" as it says in the subject line. That is reversal or > cure of diabetes, yes? Priscilla, here's how the exchange started: In article <5hbprtF3i2i0sU3@mid.individual.net>, Susan <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote: >> x-no-archive: yes >> >> Jim Chinnis wrote: > >>> > Surely it is because there is a huge weight loss. The transition to normal >>> > bg doesn't take place until there is weight loss, does it? >>> > -- > >> Yes, it does. Normal bg is attained pretty quickly due to overall >> caloric restriction and due to the fact that bypass patients are >> instructed to eat mostly protein and some veggies, limiting fats and carbs. Too bad they aren't just given the information about diet before they're talked into mutilating their bodies. :-( Especially considering the high rate of complications and mortality within a few years after gastric bypass surgery. Priscilla *************************** My point was that in these extremely obese folks, who've tried all the diets, typically, including low carb, it doesn't work, or they're unable to sustain appetite control on any of them. Hence, bg control suffers along with weight issues. It would be hard to describe to you how hungry elevated cortisol levels make you; it's like a constant feeling of ravenous hunger. It's how I know if I'm in a high cycle, and I'm sure it's why I never got appetite suppression on low carb, though I got reduction of it. I think those folks know all about various diets, typically. What they and their doctors don't know is just how big a % of them have pituitary/adrenal problems causing their obesity. What's so unfortunate is that a lot of the folks most likely to be desperate enough for the surgery are the ones most likely to become obese again anyway, due to cortisol driven hunger defeating the bypass. :-/ Susan > > Yes, but I'd thought the discussion of gastric bypass was in terms of > > "Reversed or cured" as it says in the subject line. That is reversal or [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > surgery are the ones most likely to become obese again anyway, due to > cortisol driven hunger defeating the bypass. :-/ Folks who know in their hearts that "hunger is wonderful" are no longer compelled to overeat (eat until their stomach is so stretched that they are no longer hungry) even when they become hungrier than they have ever been in their lives. For such folks, there is no such thing as "too hungry" just as there is no such thing as "too healthy." This does require overcoming the world's great lie about hunger: http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed. Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist "Folks who know in their hearts that "hunger is wonderful" are no longer compelled to overeat (eat until their stomach is so stretched that they are no longer hungry) even when they become hungrier than they have ever been in their lives. For such folks, there is no such thing as "too hungry" just as there is no such thing as "too healthy."" Bottom line, what a mess of tautology and non-scientific hooy. I remain free in the truth to tell the truth. Including the truth that no additional evidence is required to ignore the above source with complete peace of mind, because the truth is not in it. God bless. > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > surgery are the ones most likely to become obese again anyway, due to > cortisol driven hunger defeating the bypass. :-/ If some of the less than "morbidly obese" aren't informed about low-carb as a way to treat their DM, what makes you think that these "morbidly obese" people are? I'm hearing about bariatric surgery being pushed on fat people almost as a matter of routine -- without other routes considered to treat their real problem. The clinicians assume "fat person -- must cut them up" and don't bother with treating their actual presenting problem. It's like they can't see or hear anything but the person's body size. I've heard too many horror stories of doctors ignoring the patient's presentation of symptoms and being willing to do nothing but try to make them smaller. People have died because their actual illnesses are ignored. No, I doubt very much that people who are scammed into this kind of mutilation are informed of options for treating their diabetes. Priscilla > If some of the less than "morbidly obese" aren't informed about low-carb > as a way to treat their DM, what makes you think that these "morbidly > obese" people are? Because folks don't want to be that fat. It's damned uncomfortable and when they've posted on this and other groups, they've tried all sorts of diets. I don't think anyone resigns him/herself to living in a 400+ lb body without some stabs at getting some relief before resigning themselves to it being impossible. > I'm hearing about bariatric surgery being pushed on > fat people almost as a matter of routine -- without other routes > considered to treat their real problem. The clinicians assume "fat > person -- must cut them up" and don't bother with treating their actual > presenting problem. It's like they can't see or hear anything but the > person's body size. I'm sure you're right and that happens. That doesn't mean that the obese folks haven't had a near lifetime of trying myriad interventions with unfortunatel results. > I've heard too many horror stories of doctors > ignoring the patient's presentation of symptoms and being willing to do > nothing but try to make them smaller. People have died because their > actual illnesses are ignored. We're in agreement. I'm sure that bariatric surgery is masking a LOT of Cushing's disease and other disorders. > No, I doubt very much that people who are scammed into this kind of > mutilation are informed of options for treating their diabetes. I don't doubt that they've tried diets for years, been rx'ed meds for DM, and HT, and other problems to no avail. All of that is papering over an underlying problem. What pisses me off, too, is the psychologizing of food consumption, people being taught that they're driven to eat to fill an emotional void. People are driven to eat pathologically by endocrine processes. Susan > > If some of the less than "morbidly obese" aren't informed about low-carb > > as a way to treat their DM, what makes you think that these "morbidly [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > body without some stabs at getting some relief before resigning > themselves to it being impossible. I think you're continuing to miss my point. I'm fat, and my clinician didn't teach me about low-carbing to manage my diabetes. Why do you think that people who are fatter than me are given that information? I'm pretty lucky in that no-one has tried to push bariatric surgery to me. Actually, they're pretty lucky, considering what I'd say to them if they did. When I use the word "diet," I am NOT talking about weight loss diet. I am talking about lifestyle changes to control BG. For any fat people reading this who are interested in health at any size, there are yahoo groups and other mailing lists where fat acceptance is promoted and talk promoting weight loss is banned. We get enough of it outside those safe places. Email me off list for a few pointers. Priscilla > I think you're continuing to miss my point. I'm fat, and my clinician > didn't teach me about low-carbing to manage my diabetes. Why do you > think that people who are fatter than me are given that information? Priscilla, I didn't say they were "given" the information. I said they'd found it and tried it. It's not as if low carb has been a well kept secret in the popular media, for example. > I'm pretty lucky in that no-one has tried to push bariatric surgery to > me. Actually, they're pretty lucky, considering what I'd say to them if > they did. LOL... I believe you! But from the few pics you've posted, you don't appear to be that fat. > When I use the word "diet," I am NOT talking about weight loss diet. I > am talking about lifestyle changes to control BG. Yes, you've always been clear about that. My concern is that when weight loss doesn't occur, there's often a deadly underlying process eroding one's health, pit/adrenal or other endocrine dysfunction. > For any fat people reading this who are interested in health at any > size, there are yahoo groups and other mailing lists where fat > acceptance is promoted and talk promoting weight loss is banned. We get > enough of it outside those safe places. Email me off list for a few > pointers. I see nothing wrong with folks accepting their size, only with ignoring potentially lethal pathology that's so often at the root of obesity. And I'm not talking psychopathology. Susan > > > If some of the less than "morbidly obese" aren't informed about low-carb > > > as a way to treat their DM, what makes you think that these "morbidly [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I think you're continuing to miss my point. I'm fat, and my clinician > didn't teach me about low-carbing to manage my diabetes. If it were all subcutaneous adipose tissue (SAT), there would be no health concerns. Your having type-2 diabetes indicates that you have too much visceral adipose tissue (VAT). This can happen even in folks that are not overweight. This does not happen from eating carbs but from overeating in general. When we eat until our stomachs are stretched causing us to no longer be hungry, we have overeaten and VAT formation starts. For this reason, very few folks in America have zero VAT. There was a time when many folks graduating from high school have zero VAT back when school lunches were subsidized/rationed and vending machines were absent. > Why do you > think that people who are fatter than me are given that information? Low-carbing would be ill-advised for anyone because the hyperketonemia increases lipid peroxidation which leads to more cardiovascular disease. > I'm pretty lucky in that no-one has tried to push bariatric surgery to > me. Actually, they're pretty lucky, considering what I'd say to them if > they did. No such thing as luck (Proverbs 16:33). > When I use the word "diet," I am NOT talking about weight loss diet. I > am talking about lifestyle changes to control BG. The most important lifestyle change to improve BG control in a type-2 diabetic is eating less to become healthier (hungrier) to lose the VAT to cure the underlying IR/MetS. This lifestyle change is what bariatric surgery forces of its patients and would definitely not be a diet: http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Healing This completely free Approach comes with an unprecedented million- dollar guarantee: http://TruthRUS.org/Guarantee Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed: http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > Priscilla I agree, as I know several people who did get bariatric surgeries, and another who was considering it, but got pregnant so it is on hold for now. I don't think they tried every diet on earth. I, myself have been morbidly obese. I have managed to get below that line now, and am just plain old obese now. I work extremely hard to lose or even to just maintain my weight, so I know the extreme out of control hunger. I presume it is even worse for some than me as a very few people get up to 700, 800 or even 1000 pounds. I am not sure if low carb could help them or not. I saw this documentary about some very obese people, and as part of it they showed all the food they ate in a day. The amount did not surprise me (although it was alot) as much as the pale col |
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