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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2007Suggestions to improve alt-support-diabetes.org
Here is the website for discussion: http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org It is my opinion that the website needs to include professional advice and/or links. As it stands now there is none. 1. Do you think there should be links or information from professional diabetes organizations and associations? If so, which ones? Yes. www.diabetes.org www.joslin.org www.jdrf.org 2. What other recommendations would you make to improve the site, if any? A. The "READ ME FIRST" section is fine as is because it describes the newsgroup and is not based on any medical recommendations. B. The "NEWLY DIAGNOSED" section is sorely lacking because it is only amateur advice. I have nothing against Jennifer or her advice and there have been some that say it has worked wonders for them. But it is still offering medical advice without any kind of disclaimer. And it is the only thing posted to a newbie. For this section I would recommend: - A big disclaimer at the beginning advising people to work with their doctor, preferably and endo, to determine their diabetic needs. - Links to all the major organizations for their basic advice. Most professional diabetes sites will have some kind of basic introductory links for someone who is new to diabetes. For instance: http://diabetes.org/about-diabetes.jsp http://joslin.org/LearnAboutDiabetes_Index_home.asp C. The "DIET AND EXERCISE" section should be split into two separate pages. They are both very important to diabetes control and should not be lumped together as they are now. Again just one person's take on things is featured on the page. It too should start with a disclaimer and advice about working with one's doctor. It also should provide links to professional organizations about diet and exercise. D. Another NEW PAGE should be added that could be called "KIDS, TEENS, PARENTS" This section should address some of the needs and concerns that parents and teens have. We've had a number of those (although a couple were fake) that a section devoted to their needs would be a good thing to have. Both Ted and Mack have posted some great links to professional sites that could be included in this section. E. OTHER GROUPS. A page with a few links to other message boards that are moderated by professional organizations, such as the ADA's message boards. F. Possible elimination of the 5% CLUB page. Achieving good control is its own reward and some diabetics might feel that they have failed by not being able to get their A1C in that range. We all know that for some, that may not be possible. Kurt > Here is the website for discussion: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > 1. Do you think there should be links or information from professional > diabetes organizations and associations? If so, which ones? <snip> No. > 2. What other recommendations would you make to improve the site, if > any? <snip> It's fine as is. > - A big disclaimer at the beginning advising people to work with their > doctor, preferably and endo, to determine their diabetic needs. I disagree. You imply that we are stupid! > - Links to all the major organizations for their basic advice. Most > professional diabetes sites will have some kind of basic introductory > links for someone who is new to diabetes. For instance: <snip> Again, I disagree. If it's links we want, those can easily be found via search engine. > C. The "DIET AND EXERCISE" section should be split into two separate > pages. They are both very important to diabetes control and should > not be lumped together as they are now. Again just one person's take > on things is featured on the page. It too should start with a > disclaimer and advice about working with one's doctor. It also should > provide links to professional organizations about diet and exercise. Nonsense! Drs. generally do not give dietary advice. And when I have gotten dietary advice from Drs. it is usually wrong. For instance. High BG? Well, it's the holidays! "Yes, Dr. but I didn't eat anything I shouldn't have. I don't eat sweets. I've been on an extreme low carb diet. Only eggs, cheese and low carb veggies. Something is clearly wrong!" Dr. doesn't listen to me. Chuckles and says everyone cheats during the holidays. Luckily my husband was with me that time so he could back me up on this. Still didn't do any good though. > D. Another NEW PAGE should be added that could be called "KIDS, TEENS, > PARENTS" This section should address some of the needs and concerns > that parents and teens have. We've had a number of those (although a > couple were fake) that a section devoted to their needs would be a > good thing to have. Both Ted and Mack have posted some great links to > professional sites that could be included in this section. Don't know about that. Although I am a parent, my kid doesn't have diabetes. > E. OTHER GROUPS. A page with a few links to other message boards that > are moderated by professional organizations, such as the ADA's message > boards. Why? If people want other groups then they should seek them out. It's not up to us to provide those for them. Sheesh! > F. Possible elimination of the 5% CLUB page. Achieving good control > is its own reward and some diabetics might feel that they have failed > by not being able to get their A1C in that range. We all know that > for some, that may not be possible. Yeah, well I'm not in the 5% club and the way things are going I probably never will be. It's meaningless to me but also harmless. Whatever. It is sounding more and more to me that you do not like it here. Perhaps then you should go form your own forum or newsgroup or whatever, using your own rules. Kurt, you didnt think that this is going to go over well with the other posters. did you? > Kurt, you didnt think that this is going to go over well with the other > posters. did you? What do you think of it, Loretta? Susan On May 1, 12:01?pm, sassybklynl...@webtv.net (Loretta Eisenberg) wrote: > Kurt, you didnt think that this is going to go over well with the other > posters. did you? Mack suggested that I post to ask for suggestions to ask for opinions and suggestions about improving the website. Kurt Speaking of the website alt.support-diabetes.org, I would like to take the time to thank all those involved for the time, energy, and money that goes into maintaining it. I would be more than happy to donate to help with the costs, but was told that a member of this group pays for it in full. I don't know who you are, but a big thank you to you! To the webmaster(s) I'm sure it seems like a thankless job at times, but you are very much appreciated. :-) Cheri Kurt wrote in message <1178048748.407448.119350@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>... >Mack suggested that I post to ask for suggestions to ask for opinions >and suggestions about improving the website. > >Kurt > Speaking of the website alt.support-diabetes.org, I would like to take > the time to thank all those involved for the time, energy, and money [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the webmaster(s) I'm sure it seems like a thankless job at times, but > you are very much appreciated. :-) Part of your thanks can go to Reisa for creating the original site. Others took it over from her. If some improvements to the site are made, even as small as listing links to professional organizations, then I will gladly make a monetary contribution. Kurt I know that Kurt, I actually donated money to her at the time, she was still in CA then. Thanks for telling me who my thanks can go to though. Cheri Kurt wrote in message <1178052455.058993.18580@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>... >Part of your thanks can go to Reisa for creating the original site. >Others took it over from her. I would never donate a penny to the ADA directly, but I do donate to the JDF walk-a-thons, and other good causes for diabetes. Be that as it may, I would never preface a donation with "you either do it my way" or no way. Best to not give at all IMO. Cheri Kurt wrote in message <1178052455.058993.18580@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>... >If some improvements to the site are made, even as small as listing >links to professional organizations, then I will gladly make a >monetary contribution. > >Kurt >I would never donate a penny to the ADA directly, but I do donate to >the JDF walk-a-thons, and other good causes for diabetes. Be that as >it may, I would never preface a donation with "you either do it my >way" or no way. Best to not give at all IMO. > >Cheri a gift with strings attached is not a gift and shouldn't be given because it is the seed of a resentment.  SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . > >I would never donate a penny to the ADA directly, but I do donate to > >the JDF walk-a-thons, and other good causes for diabetes. Be that as [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > a gift with strings attached is not a gift and shouldn't be given > because it is the seed of a resentment. Exactly. Reminds me of the Jude days when someone wanted their donation to be tax deductible. I could probably see where improvements could be made to many major charities, but that wouldn't prevent me from still donating. Kurt's offer is not a donation but a form of "sponsorship". In other words if things go my way I give money. I can't believe he even did this thread. He has never done anything anyone has requested before. "To announce that there must be no criticism of the > President, or that we are to stand by the President > right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... > . >> >I would never donate a penny to the ADA directly, but I do donate to >> >the JDF walk-a-thons, and other good causes for diabetes. Be that as [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> a gift with strings attached is not a gift and shouldn't be given >> because it is the seed of a resentment. > Exactly. Reminds me of the Jude days when someone wanted their donation to > be tax deductible. I could probably see where improvements could be made to > many major charities, but that wouldn't prevent me from still donating. > Kurt's offer is not a donation but a form of "sponsorship". In other words > if things go my way I give money. I can't believe he even did this thread. > He has never done anything anyone has requested before. Have previous suggestions been as likely to get him attention? He doesn't get the involvement the rest of us get from sharing our progress and problems and doing interesting homework. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] > a gift with strings attached is not a gift and shouldn't be given > because it is the seed of a resentment. Lots of schools & colleges have been very successful dealing with purpose-specified-gifts. They certainly don't seem to resent them & the donors don't seem to either. bj >> a gift with strings attached is not a gift and shouldn't be given >> because it is the seed of a resentment. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >donors don't seem to either. >bj we're talking personal gifts between individuals. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . there was NO asd website for SIX months prior to the new webmaster taking over the job a group of us got together and someone stood up and said that they would create the web site again, and they deserve all the credit, although they want to remain annonymous any funds sent to Reisa went nowhere because that was prior to her move when the web site went down, with NOTHING to hand over Jude was the first person to make sweetblood as our web site SignatureJoin us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/ http://www.diabetic-talk.org/freeveggies.htm I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher. > > Speaking of the website alt.support-diabetes.org, I would like to take > > the time to thank all those involved for the time, energy, and money [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Kurt > there was NO asd website for SIX months prior to > the new webmaster taking over the job [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Jude was the first person to make sweetblood as > our web site Thanks for clearing that up, Kate. Priscilla >> Speaking of the website alt.support-diabetes.org, I would like to take >> the time to thank all those involved for the time, energy, and money [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Kurt Thank you for making us aware of that, and thank you very much Reisa - and all of those who were the pioneers for these newsgroups (mhd, asd, asduk, afd) and who made sure they were continued and supported over the years. I'll answer the original post after I've had time to think about some of the excellent points made by others. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ latest: Athens and The Adriatic > Speaking of the website alt.support-diabetes.org, I would like to take > the time to thank all those involved for the time, energy, and money [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the webmaster(s) I'm sure it seems like a thankless job at times, but > you are very much appreciated. :-) Good point, Cheri, and I want to add my own gratitude. Susan > Speaking of the website alt.support-diabetes.org, I would like to take > the time to thank all those involved for the time, energy, and money [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the webmaster(s) I'm sure it seems like a thankless job at times, but > you are very much appreciated. :-) I second that fully. > > Speaking of the website alt.support-diabetes.org, I would like to take > > the time to thank all those involved for the time, energy, and money [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I second that fully. Me too, whoever you are, we appreciate you Various Posters Said: "I was told that a member of this group pays for it in full. I don't know who you are, but a big thank you to you!" "Me too, whoever you are, we appreciate you." Comment: Yes, thank you Dr Chung. :>) >Various Posters Said: >"I was told that a member of this group pays for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Comment: Yes, thank you Dr Chung. :>) wrong. chungis no way associated with alt support diabetes, the newsgroup or it's web site, except as a known troll and kook. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . >On May 1, 12:01?pm, sassybklynl...@webtv.net (Loretta Eisenberg) >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Kurt And they are giving you their honest answers. Sometimes we have to accept that the answer is no, even if we think the request is reasonable. This also is what it means "to be a part of a group". The discussion continues. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . On May 1, 1:44�pm, M�ck�� <shootspamm...@deathtospam.net> wrote: > >On May 1, 12:01?pm, sassybklynl...@webtv.net (Loretta Eisenberg) > >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > And they are giving you their honest answers. Do you really believe that? >Sometimes we have to >accept that the answer is no, even if we think the request is > reasonable. Mack, spare me your armchair psychology. You've been doing that a lot in here lately as if you are in any position to advise others. Until you get your own head in shape you should refrain from trying to mold others. We have enough armchair doctors in here already. > This also is what it means "to be a part of a group". I strongly disagree. This is not a social club where one elects to be part of a group because they like the people in it and have a like- minded philosophy. This is an unmoderated forum in which anyone can post anything about diabetes without having to disclose the truth about who they really are. Do you really believe in the "majority rules" theory? If you found yourself in a group full of bigots or homophobes would you just accept the group opinion or do something to try and show others that happen by that tolerance is better? I think there are some people here who have a heavy handed agenda and are dangerous to newbies. There is a sub-group of people here who I have absolutely no desire to be part of. > The discussion continues. It quickly turned from a discussion into something else altogether. As it usually does... Kurt >On May 1, 1:44?pm, M?ck?? <shootspamm...@deathtospam.net> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > >Kurt I guess your father never taught you both sides of sportsmanship. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . On May 1, 4:36�pm, M�ck�� <shootspamm...@deathtospam.net> wrote: > >On May 1, 1:44?pm, M?ck?? <shootspamm...@deathtospam.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > I guess your father never taught you both sides of sportsmanship. Wow, Mack, you sure do have some backwards ideas about men and women's roles in society. Actually, BOTH my parents taught me about sportsmanship, but I don't look at diabetes as if it were a "game." It's a serious disease and not a sport. If you can honestly say that you see nothing wrong with a diabetes website that offers only amateur advice without even a link to a professional organization then we will never find common ground on this issue. I stand by my criticism of the newsgroup's website. The suggestions I offered to make it better would improve it. If the "majority" disagrees, that doesn't make them right and me wrong. Kurt > On May 1, 4:36?pm, M?ck?? <shootspamm...@deathtospam.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Kurt this is a newsgroup. We do not claim to be professionals, have all the answers, etc.. We are a group of people who live with this disease everyday and simply share our experiences. There are plenty of professional organizations out there that most newbies will probably find and access before they locate ASD. I seriously doubt that anyone could confuse us with the ADA or Joslin. Additionally, I've yet to see a newbie come to ASD who does not have a doctor. Each person got here either by receiving a dx through a doctor or a warning through doctor that they were headed in the wrong direction. Occasionally, a rare individual shows up who wonders if he/ she could have diabetes, and universally, we all tell him/her to see a doctor. You're looking for problems where there are none. Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise > > On May 1, 4:36?pm, M?ck?? <shootspamm...@deathtospam.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > You're looking for problems where there are none. Well that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. But I don't have to look for problems here...they are blatantly obvious. There are 20 million + diabetics in the United States alone. Why is it that there are only a handful of people that ever post in this newsgroup and many of them are from other countries? My feeling is the reason this newsgroup isn't much bigger is because of the one sided take on everything and the constant bashing of professional doctors and professional organizations. IMO most people who ever stumble on to this place just move right past it after reading a few of those kinds of posts. Kurt On May 1, 6:49�pm, "Michelle C." <bookbug2...@gmail.com> wrote: > On May 1, 5:48 pm, Kurt <kurtwheeling1...@hotmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] > > You're looking for problems where there are none. KW: Well that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. KW: But I don't have KW: to look for problems here...they are blatantly KW: obvious. That's because you are judging the group at the wrong level. If this was a professional group the flaws, if any, would be intolerable. A 2 year old just learning independence who tosses a wobbly in the supermarket is tolerated more than a teenager who does it because it is expected behaviour in a 2 year old. This group is fine for what it is and what it is supposed to be. If you want more create sci.kurt.diabetes. There is nothing here that needs changing and if there were no one would be likely to change for you. You have not endeared yourself to more than small handful of people. Your tantrums and BS have alienated you, no one takes you seriously anymore, if they ever did, considering you came in wailing from day 1. You need to accept responsibility for the fact that you haven't given anyone a reason to listen to you. For a long while you have been annoying background noise to a lot of people. Would you listen to anyone who has done the same for years? Or would you tune out? KW: IMO most people who ever KW: stumble on to this place just move right past it after KW: reading a few KW: of those kinds of posts. Name any group that is huge - at least in usenet. Take the alzheimer's group where I posted for a while. It's not large by any means. Nor are any of the health groups in normal usenet. Your point? You have no clue what most people do after reading this grpoup. You persist in saying people here drive them away. Who are all these people that have been driven away? You have no idea do you. >For a long while you have been annoying > background noise I prefer to think of myself as the basal insulin of the newsgroup. You're more like NPH. Kurt >>For a long while you have been annoying >> background noise [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Kurt Wrong analogy. Try Senna and immodium respectively. One is a cause of certain things flowing, the other stops it. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ latest: Athens and The Adriatic >>For a long while you have been annoying >> background noise > >I prefer to think of myself as the basal insulin of the newsgroup. > >Kurt if that were true, we need to start seeing an endo and drop the gp, because the basal rate is seriously screwed up and not covering our needs. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . > On May 1, 6:49?pm, "Michelle C." <bookbug2...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 130 lines] > > - Show quoted text - hi "Kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message >There are 20 million + diabetics in the United States alone. Why is it that there are only a handful of people that ever post in this newsgroup and many of them are from other countries? My feeling is the reason this newsgroup isn't much bigger is because of the one sided take on everything and the constant bashing of professional doctors and professional organizations. IMO most people who ever stumble on to this place just move right past it after reading a few of those kinds of posts. Maybe there are 20 million lurkers....lol John Is that what all that noise was? 20 million+ diabetics stumbling through and moving right past here? ;-) Cheri johnniemccoy@ wrote in message ... >Maybe there are 20 million lurkers....lol > >John There are 20 million + diabetics in the United States alone. Why is it that there are only a handful of people that ever post in this newsgroup and many of them are from other countries? My feeling is the reason this newsgroup isn't much bigger is because of the one sided take on everything and the constant bashing of professional doctors and professional organizations. IMO most people who ever stumble on to this place just move right past it after reading a few of those kinds of posts. Most people I know don't use newsgroups at all, ever. I know some who used to use them but feel they have outlived their usefulness and prefer moderated forums. Many people that post here are from other countries because they can! That's the beauty of Usenet. It doesn't just belong to the US. >Well that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. But I don't have >to look for problems here...they are blatantly obvious. > >There are 20 million + diabetics in the United States alone. Why is >it that there are only a handful of people that ever post in this >newsgroup and many of them are from other countries? Good point, wrong conclusions. Ask Bob how many of those 20 million are subscribed at any one time to the ADA Forum. Apart from that one, the largest diabetes forum I read now has 822 members, the smallest 89. The largest I ever read had about 1200. My CLL list has a little over 2000 members (maybe the more imminent consequences helps), but even then is only a small percentage of the CLL population, which is much, much smaller than the diabetes population. Yahoo "diabetes" questions has less posts than here (and much weirder answers:-); but I have no idea how many readers they have. Nor do they have even the modest disclaimers we have before we offer advice. It's simple. Most who read groups in any form are lurkers. Some, like me, post too much (hi BoB) but most never post at all. They read, they may ask an occasional question, but their need was met and they move on. I have no idea of the real post-to-lurk ratio, but based on other groups I'd guess at least 10-to-1, probably much higher. > My feeling is >the reason this newsgroup isn't much bigger is because of the one [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Kurt You're entitled to your opinion. I don't agree with it. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ latest: Athens and The Adriatic Hi, Kurt > <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >> stumble on to this place just move right past it after reading a few >> of those kinds of posts. Kurt, based on my personal experience in the past 3 weeks, I have had a doctor that wouldn't even bother to introduce himself to me, was going to send me home with just a blood meter and a stack of information with no counseling or instruction on how to inject myself or even explain what a good blood sugar reading should be! Then going to an endo that didn't think it was necessary to do any blood work, have discovered I should have had a Microalbuminuria test (it was not even done in the hospital!), which the endo didn't do, and to top it off, when I pointed out how many injections I could potentially have per month vs. the number of needle tips in a box would leave me short by about 20 needle tips per month, he recommended I simply reuse the needles. So I think it is very valid to criticize these so-called professionals that apparently don't seem to care very much about their patients health and well being. Hopefully your experiences have been much better, unfortunately it seems many have bad experiences on par with mine. >> Kurt Dale Signaturehttp://TheColony.com/ Community site for people living or working in The Colony, TX and surrounding communities! Free blogs, classifieds, clubs and more. > On 1 May 2007 19:45:09 -0700, Kurt > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > It's simple. Most who read groups in any form are lurkers. > Some, like me, post too much (hi BoB) Out of your killfile again? but most never post at > all. They read, they may ask an occasional question, but > their need was met and they move on. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > You're entitled to your opinion. I don't agree with it. That's mighty white of you, but the real issue is _why_ you disagree with him, because his main beef with this forum is the belittling of "professional advice and/or links" and you don't come across as a guy who is so brain dead that he believes bashing pros is kosher. Responding to Kurt's question: "Do you think there should be links or information from professional diabetes organizations and associations?" Pricilla Ballou said it all when she wrote: "No. We want to help diabetics." Priscilla's response is of course not unusual: many patients blame doctors, the pharma and insurance industries and other professional organizations for not doing enough to alleviate their blight. Some even believe that the pros all conspire to make sure there's no cure so they can go on profiting from the poor wretches' misery. Never mind that during the last hundred years world population has almost quadrupled and our individual life expectancy has doubled. But _you_ know all this, don't you? And _I_ know why you - despite this knowledge - put your weight :-) behind the wretches. Pity, really! Ever think of going to medical school? It's not too late. I personally know a lady started from scratch at 60 and got an advanced degree before she hit seventy. Bob -------------------------- Medicine, the only profession that labors incessantly to destroy the reason for its existence. --James Bryce --------------------------- The gods had condemned Sisyphus to ceaselessly rolling a rock to the top of a mountain, whence the stone would fall back of its own weight. They had thought with some reason that there is no more dreadful punishment than futile and hopeless labor. --Albert Camus >> > If you can honestly say that you see nothing wrong with a diabetes >> > website that offers only amateur advice without even a link to a >> > professional organization then we will never find common ground on >> > this issue. It's not just any diabetes website. It's one specifically attached to a diabetes support newsgroup. It can't be criticised in general terms as a general diabetes website because it isn't. >> Kurt this is a newsgroup. ?We do not claim to be professionals, have >> all the answers, etc.. We are a group of people who live with this [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> >> You're looking for problems where there are none. > Well that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. But I don't have > to look for problems here...they are blatantly obvious. > There are 20 million + diabetics in the United States alone. Why is > it that there are only a handful of people that ever post in this > newsgroup and many of them are from other countries? Without counting the numbers, I find the general proportion of non-US to US posters in this newsgroup to be similar to that of most of the other newsgroups I look at. Do you disagree? And if you do, why do you think there ought to be more US posters here? Is there something specially wrong with US health care in this area? > My feeling is > the reason this newsgroup isn't much bigger is because of the one > sided take on everything and the constant bashing of professional > doctors and professional organizations. IMO most people who ever > stumble on to this place just move right past it after reading a few > of those kinds of posts. The only people who ever go to the web to find out more about diabetes will be those who haven't been able to get the information they wanted from their doctor or their local knowledgeable friends. Anyone who does go to the web will to find out about diabetes will first of all find the big professional organisations such the ADA, because they turn up first in searches, and the reason they turn up first in the searches is that that they are the sites that most people who want to know more about diabetes use. The only way someone looking for information about diabetes would end up here would be if they were dissatisfied with what they were getting from the big organisations with the big web presences such as the ADA. So I can't understand why you are surprised that there aren't many folk posting here. After all, if the ADA does a good job, and you never tire of telling us how good it is, why on earth would anyone come here? To find a support group of other diabetics to talk to? Like every other medical support category, most people these days who want that don't end up in that old-fashioned and obscure corner of the internet known as newsgroups. In fact the ADA runs its own support web forums, which are more active than asd, and according to Tom, suffer much less from the problems you criticise asd for. You seem to be suggesting that there is something odd about the low level of folk here. If you compare the activity here with that on other support newsgroups I don't see any evidence that it's anomalously low. And if you do think it's anomlously low, from your point of view isn't that reassuring evidence that doctors and the big organisations such as the ADA are doing a good job? SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] >>> > If you can honestly say that you see nothing wrong with a diabetes >>> > website that offers only amateur advice without even a link to a [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] >forums, which are more active than asd, and according to Tom, suffer >much less from the problems you criticise asd for. Actually, not that much busier, or at least the type 2 and "Recently Diagnosed" sections aren't. A little more than here, but not a lot. The major difference is that it's moderated - so neither Kurt nor I could be as open about our opinions there. There is little spam and it gets yanked when it does appear; there is also "bad" information, but the responses and corrections of such information have to be a little more polite. I occasionally forget that:-) Of course, Kurt would disagree as to which information is bad. Tom is not a member; nor is Kurt on the type 1 forum as far as I can tell (possibly with a different nick). While I agree with their suggestions that people should visit, I'm fascinated that they do so in those circumstances. >You seem to be suggesting that there is something odd about the low >level of folk here. If you compare the activity here with that on >other support newsgroups I don't see any evidence that it's >anomalously low. And if you do think it's anomlously low, from your >point of view isn't that reassuring evidence that doctors and the big >organisations such as the ADA are doing a good job? Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ latest: Athens and The Adriatic >>>> If you can honestly say that you see nothing wrong with a diabetes >>>> website that offers only amateur advice without even a link to a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > a diabetes support newsgroup. It can't be criticised in general terms > as a general diabetes website because it isn't. Still, I would see no harm in something like The [ADA link] is a large organization having much to say about diabetes. Please note that some A.S.D. members disapprove of their advice. Any diabetic would benefit by doing some research rather than basing all health decisions solely on a single source. If they follow the advice of doing a little bit of research, they can see for themselves what percentage "some" is. And if they do a little more research, they may begin to be influenced by legitimate research instead of by the rants of Kurt (or the rants of equally citation-free folks on the other side). SignatureWes Groleau Words of the Wild Wes(t) = http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW >>>>> If you can honestly say that you see nothing wrong with a diabetes >>>>> website that offers only amateur advice without even a link to a [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >of Kurt (or the rants of equally citation-free folks on the >other side). something worth considering. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . >>>>> If you can honestly say that you see nothing wrong with a diabetes >>>>> website that offers only amateur advice without even a link to a [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > of Kurt (or the rants of equally citation-free folks on the > other side). This suggestion is a perfect solution. cheers Paul > "Wes Groleau" <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote in message >> Still, I would see no harm in something like >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > This suggestion is a perfect solution. Well, thanks, but if I may look at it from a different angle: Another post mentioned that "the group" desired the website to be free of all such outside links. Although I missed that vote, I can see the point--if the site is intended to represent all A.S.D. participants (does that include lurkers?), and if one out of four of us wanted a link up for this or that, there could end up being an awful lot of links SignatureWes Groleau If you put garbage in a computer nothing comes out but garbage. But this garbage, having passed through a very expensive machine, is somehow ennobled and none dare criticize it. > > "Wes Groleau" <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > and if one out of four of us wanted a link up for this or that, > there could end up being an awful lot of links My take is this. People - especially type 2's - come here because they need help controlling when they have tried "traditional" dietary advice and it failed. If the website is to reflect the needs of the majority why should it provide links to the associations that promote a diet that failed them. A lot of the purpose of ASD is to provide alternatives to traditional dietary treatment. Providing professional links would be totally at odds with the purpose. If type 1's want a section on the website then once again, send in the submissions. That way that section could contain links applicable to type 1's. Generalised stuff cannot always cover both types. >>>"Wes Groleau" <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > submissions. That way that section could contain links applicable to type > 1's. Generalised stuff cannot always cover both types. Then there is a third group, a small minority, like myself, who do not have diabetes not yet, hopefully never), but are learning to make the road easier for the ones they love who are diabetic. Gillian > >>>"Wes Groleau" <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote in message > >> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > have diabetes not yet, hopefully never), but are learning to make the > road easier for the ones they love who are diabetic. Yes, the team support person, very important! Would you like to write up something Gill? >>Then there is a third group, a small minority, like myself, who do not >>have diabetes not yet, hopefully never), but are learning to make the >>road easier for the ones they love who are diabetic. > > Yes, the team support person, very important! Would you like to write up > something Gill? Well, I *THINK* that is a compliment (vbg). However I am no writer per se, and as of the 9th will only be posting on lucky occasions. You are welcome to email me at my real address gillmurray1 at verizon..dot ...net. When we are near Wifi,I will certainly respond!! I really enjoy this group; I have learned to know who to delete unread, and know who to read. Believe it or not, as I was typing I heard a big crack of thinder. We re so dry here in Florida that rain would be a relief!! In fact there are some big noises on the skylight. I doubt if the quantity of rain will help, but it is a psychological plus. Gillian > >>Then there is a third group, a small minority, like myself, who do not > >>have diabetes not yet, hopefully never), but are learning to make the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > welcome to email me at my real address gillmurray1 at > verizon..dot ...net. When we are near Wifi,I will certainly respond!! Cool, will do that ;) > Believe it or not, as I was typing I heard a big crack of thinder. We re > so dry here in Florida that rain would be a relief!! In fact there are > some big noises on the skylight. I doubt if the quantity of rain will > help, but it is a psychological plus. We got a week of torrential rain last week and a local paper said it made no difference to the dams, grr. A few days later, same paper said the large dam was now 15%, whereas it was less than 12% before the rains - a huge difference! > > > "Wes Groleau" <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > treatment. Providing professional links would be totally at odds with the > purpose. Besides that, I think anyone who finds the newsgroups is going to be savvy enough to have visited the websites of the ADA, Joslin, etc., long before venturing here -- or at least Googled for them. I seriously doubt a.s.d. is the first stop for any newbie. Certainly my experience was to go to the "experts" first -- not that it did much good. That's why I kept looking. SignatureBlueBrooke T2/D&E/June 2005 A1c Oct 2006 -- 5.8 A1c Jul 2005 -- 6.8 Telling me it is true does not make it so. > > > > "Wes Groleau" <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote in message > > > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > A1c Jul 2005 -- 6.8 > Telling me it is true does not make it so. i hope this isn't the first place they come or they'll be really buggered >i hope this isn't the first place they come or they'll be really >buggered You reckon? I know you're a troll, but that can't go unanswered. I would unhesitatingly send my own children or my own mother, if they were diagnosed, here as the first port of call for dietary and testing matters after they see the doctor. But before they saw a dietician. If they ever saw a dietician. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ latest: Athens and The Adriatic >Besides that, I think anyone who finds the newsgroups is going to be >savvy enough to have visited the websites of the ADA, Joslin, etc., [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >my experience was to go to the "experts" first -- not that it did much >good. That's why I kept looking. Yep. First I saw the doc. Then I saw the dietician. Then I did his course. And I read EVERYTHING (still have it) he gave me and everthing on the Diabetes Austrlia site. Then, thank heavens, I found m.h.d. and later a.s.d. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ latest: Athens and The Adriatic >> My take is this. People - especially type 2's - come here because they need >> help controlling when they have tried "traditional" dietary advice and it [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >my experience was to go to the "experts" first -- not that it did much >good. That's why I kept looking. Exactly. Nicky. Hi, >>>> "Wes Groleau" <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote in message >>>>> Still, I would see no harm in something like [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > my experience was to go to the "experts" first -- not that it did much > good. That's why I kept looking. Actually in my case this newsgroup was my first stop on the internet to find out more information (other than going to WebMD before being diagnosed when I was trying to figure out what was wrong with me). Then again, I have been active on the internet since the mid 1980's. Even ran a BBS back in the 80's that had internet email and newsgroups. Than again, I am a geek. Bought the first Apple ][+ sold in the state of Maine in January 1980. Dale SignatureDiagnosis TII on 04-07-07 - A1C 14.2 Novolog, Lantus, D&E http://TheColony.com/ Community site for people living or working in The Colony, TX and surrounding communities! Free blogs, classifieds, clubs and more. >> "Wes Groleau" <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > and if one out of four of us wanted a link up for this or that, > there could end up being an awful lot of links I was just offering my opinion that the link with the caveat was a good solution. I've been thinking about this question a bit and have changed my opinion. The links should probably be on the site because more information is better than less. In the end, I believe it is proper to leave decisions like this up to the person that maintains the site and I will have no problem with it either changing or remaining the same. cheers Paul >Well that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. But I don't have >to look for problems here...they are blatantly obvious. > >There are 20 million + diabetics in the United States alone. Why is >it that there are only a handful of people that ever post in this >newsgroup and many of them are from other countries? My feeling is the majority of diabetics are not even online. how many studies have shown that the majority of diabetics everywhere don't care to take care of their diabetes. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . > > > On May 1, 4:36?pm, M?ck?? <shootspamm...@deathtospam.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Kurt, If you are so put out with this newsgroup, perhaps you should found one that agrees with your personal philosophy. You know, I do not blame you for disagreeing with the general approach that many of us use, however, the methods that you support have not worked for us. It's that simple. I'm not going to tell a newbie to do something that hasn't worked for me when I offer my experiences, but neither do I prevent them from finding out what works for them. And we do not all have to agree. bj does not utilize the same methods that many of us do, yet contributes personal experience and support WITHOUT attacking what works for others. Likewise, the methods bj uses would not work for me, but in no way am I going to suggest that bj change. The point is mutual respect about what works for each of us. I do not recall anyone suggesting that you change what you personally do to control your T1, however many of us wish you would show us the same respect. Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise >> >> The discussion continues. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >sportsmanship, but I don't look at diabetes as if it were a "game." >It's a serious disease and not a sport. enough with taking things out of context to blow smoke screens. you made a proposal to the group. the group is saying no so far and you don't like it. someone who truly understand the meaning of sportsmanship would show a little more grace and diginity. >If you can honestly say that you see nothing wrong with a diabetes >website that offers only amateur advice without even a link to a >professional organization then we will never find common ground on >this issue. I see nothing wrong with an amatuer site, aproved by a group of amatuers who agreed not to endorse, as a group, any professional or commercial endevor. >I stand by my criticism of the newsgroup's website. The suggestions I >offered to make it better would improve it. If the "majority" >disagrees, that doesn't make them right and me wrong. > >Kurt doesn't make the group wrong either. but it is what the majority of the group wants. ask yourself, if you had the job of editing the site, would you respect the groups wishes and leave the site as it is until the group approved the changes? If the answer is no, then the real problem is not the group or the content of the web site. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . I strongly disagree. This is not a social club where one elects to be part of a group because they like the people in it and have a like- minded philosophy. This is an unmoderated forum in which anyone can post anything about diabetes without having to disclose the truth about who they really are. And yet many of us use our real names because we aren't afraid of what we say. Do you really believe in the "majority rules" theory? If you found yourself in a group full of bigots or homophobes would you just accept the group opinion or do something to try and show others that happen by that tolerance is better? I think there are some people here who have a heavy handed agenda and are dangerous to newbies. There is a sub-group of people here who I have absolutely no desire to be part of. I'm not Mack. But if I found myself in such a group, I would just leave! I wouldn't try to change people. That works about as well as teaching a pig to fly. > The discussion continues. It quickly turned from a discussion into something else altogether. As it usually does... Such is the nature of newsgroups! >I strongly disagree. This is not a social club where one elects to be >part of a group because they like the people in it and have a like- [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Such is the nature of newsgroups! I had to check the signature - I thought for a moment it was Jan; you have the same problem. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ latest: Athens and The Adriatic > I had to check the signature - I thought for a moment it was > Jan; you have the same problem. Sorry. I don't know why I can't quote him properly. Sometimes if I'm all hopped up on caffeine and well rested, I'll remember to take the time to put in all the ">'s" to make it look right but I obviously didn't that time. >On May 1, 1:44?pm, M?ck?? <shootspamm...@deathtospam.net> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >post anything about diabetes without having to disclose the truth >about who they really are. You do realise that also applies to you? >Do you really believe in the "majority rules" theory? If you found >yourself in a group full of bigots or homophobes would you just accept >the group opinion or do something to try and show others that happen >by that tolerance is better? You are right, in an unmoderated group that is quite true. I try it in the unmoderated group of life. Hence the blog and occasional letters to authorities and membership of other groups such as the ADA forum. But it's a quixotic effort and I know it. I enjoy tilting against windmills occasionally. However, reality applies too. See how well you go with that philosophy in some of the wilder racist, homophobic and kook groups. Of course the real question is why you would join those, or stay once you realised that your philosophy is way out of line with the majority. Because, unlike life, in groups you have a choice - you can subscribe, or unsubscribe. > I think there are some people here who >have a heavy handed agenda and are dangerous to newbies. There is a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >It quickly turned from a discussion into something else altogether. >As it usually does... Odd. That seems to happen in the real world too... Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ latest: Athens and The Adriatic > On 1 May 2007 15:46:20 -0700, Kurt >> It quickly turned from a discussion into something else altogether. >> As it usually does... >> > Odd. That seems to happen in the real world too... And in life, as in Usenet, it seems that it happens more often when certain people are present. SignatureWes Groleau "Grant me the serenity to accept those I cannot change; the courage to change the one I can; and the wisdom to know it's me." -- unknown I strongly disagree. This is not a social club where one elects to be part of a group because they like the people in it and have a like- minded philosophy. This is an unmoderated forum in which anyone can post anything about diabetes without having to disclose the truth about who they really are. --------------------------------------------------- Kurt, if you don't like what's on the a.s.d.website, then create (& maintain & support) one of your own & you can mention it here just like any other "diabetes information links" that are offered. You mention ADA enough, you could mention kurt.diabetes.advice.whatever too. Just don't expect everyone here to cheer or agree with you. I don't agree with some (sometimes a lot) of what's said here, but I don't try to impose my objection on them any more than they try to convert me, even if they do think (& sometimes say) that I'm, well, "misguided". bj >even if they do think (& sometimes say) that >I'm, well, "misguided". >bj that's because you are misguided. I distinctly remember the memo sent to saying that you were not allowed to post that message until 10:00 pm and here you are sending it 9:59 pm. really, the nerve. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . >>even if they do think (& sometimes say) that >>I'm, well, "misguided". [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to saying that you were not allowed to post that message until 10:00 > pm and here you are sending it 9:59 pm. That must be one of those disappeared-in-the-ether memos. Here I am, posting before 10pm again! bj >>>even if they do think (& sometimes say) that >>>I'm, well, "misguided". [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Here I am, posting before 10pm again! >bj Well, we are just going to have to report you to Kurt's imaginary rule enforcement squad and knitting circle. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . On May 2, 7:18�pm, M�ck�� <shootspamm...@deathtospam.net> wrote: > >>>even if they do think (& sometimes say) that > >>>I'm, well, "misguided". [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Well, we are just going to have to report you to Kurt's imaginary rule > enforcement squad and knitting circle. Weak, as usual. You know I love seeing my name in print but it's always a major disappointment when you can't tag it with a good line. At least when you post jokes from 1950's Joke Books there's a punch line to be found under all the dust. Kurt >On May 2, 7:18?pm, M?ck?? <shootspamm...@deathtospam.net> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Weak, as usual. You know I love seeing my name in print. >Kurt I know. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . Kurt, is that asd cause I dont know what ask is :-) Loretta > Kurt, is that asd cause I dont know what ask is :-) alt.support.kurt It's my new newsgroup and has only one member. ;) Kurt >> Kurt, is that asd cause I dont know what ask is :-) > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Kurt problem solved. when you post the request and control post to alt.config let us know and we will all vote yes several thousand times. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" |
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