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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / April 2007Depression Treatment Doesn't Help Diabetes Control
http://diabetes.org/diabetesnewsarticle.jsp?storyId=14957746&filename=20070426/r euters20070426health00000016reutershealthewEDIT.xml or http://tinyurl.com/2lm73l (excerpt) NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Many people with diabetes also feel depressed, which is thought to interfere with their ability to regulate their blood sugar levels well. However, improvements in depressive symptoms don't lead to better control of glucose levels, according to a new report. "While clinical depression should be treated in all patients, treating depressed mood (non-clinical depression) in patients with type 2 diabetes as a strategy to improve glycemic control is not effective," Dr. Richard S. Surwit from Duke University Medical Center, Durham, North Carolina told Reuters Health. Kurt, I dont completely agree with those findings. My common sense says that when a person is depressed, they are more likely to eat anything and everything, personal experience , and gain weight. When the depression is lifted, that person will have better control in almost all aspects of their lives. jmo Loretta > Kurt, I dont completely agree with those findings. My common sense says > that when a person is depressed, they are more likely to eat anything [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Loretta Loretta, Kurt, in my case, I have to often fight the urge to curl myself up and stay in bed, or to eat and eat. My meter, and my fear of the consequences keeps me true. Often I wake up feeling horribly depressed, and throw myself on my bicycle in an attempt to "ride my depression off", or at least keep on riding till I get over the particular feeling. I can clearly see how depression, especially clinical depression (which I as yet haven't got) can make a diabetic give up on their management of the disease. Henry M. Henry, how do you know , you dont have clinical depression. Have you been tested. Have you been on meds . Is that a self diagnosis. I am curious how one comes to the conclusioln they are not clinically depressed or are clinically depresseed. Loretta In alt.support.diabetes on Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:23:56 -0400 in Msg.# <18255-4633D78C-144@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net>, sassybklynlady@webtv.net > Henry, how do you know , you dont have clinical depression. Have you > been tested. Have you been on meds . Is that a self diagnosis. > > I am curious how one comes to the conclusioln they are not clinically > depressed or are clinically depresseed. Well, if one had intimate knowledge of it, one might be able to manage it.  SignatureDonnaB "Worry is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but doesn't get you anywhere." - Anonymous > Henry, how do you know , you dont have clinical depression. Have you > been tested. Have you been on meds . Is that a self diagnosis. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Loretta Loretta, I have read countless articles and publications, and discussed matters with people who have had clinical depression, trying to work out what's bugging me. Currently I do not fit in with the clinical depression stereotype (if there is a stereotype). My concern is that it could develop into such. I could write at length about my problems - problems which pale into insignificance with the physical problems you and some mebers of mhd and asd have or have had - but it would make uninteresting reading for most. Some things such as economy and the global situation, as well as some family matters depress me in general, but I also get "hit" by unexplained "lows" which I desperately try to tamp down. The Paroxetene (Aropax here in Australia) I take, does increase my level of tolerance, but doesn't stop those "hits of low" - my term for my depression attacks. My remedy is to be with my friends. I have friends at work. Work keeps me going. Henry M. Henry, do you know your serotonin levels. If you are feeling depressed for over three weeks then it is most likely clinical. If you have a couple of days of feeling sad it is not. No one can tell anyone what they have a right to be depressed about. Loretta > Henry, do you know your serotonin levels. If you are feeling depressed > for over three weeks then it is most likely clinical. If you have a > couple of days of feeling sad it is not. You can't determine brain serotonin levels without taking brain tissue and testing it. Not a test advised for other than cadavers, and it's serotonin levels in the brain (not the rest of the body) which are implicated in many people's depression. For others, it's other neurotransmitters that are not sufficient. Epinephrine, norepinephrine, dopamine, etc. are all neurotransmitters which are boosted by various antidepressants. Since one can't take a brain which has been pureed and measured and put it back in the patient's head for re-use with the specifically-needed antidepressant, various meds are tried until the right one is found. Diagnosis is done by matching symptoms to lists in the DSM. > No one can tell anyone what they have a right to be depressed about. Clinical depression isn't *about* anything. It just is -- pervasive and debilitating. Priscilla Thanks Priscilla for the information. Loretta > Henry, do you know your serotonin levels. If you are feeling depressed > for over three weeks then it is most likely clinical. If you have a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Loretta Loretta, I don't know my seratonin levels. Despite big bursts of depression, the reason I don't think it's clinical is that I haven't tried to isolate myself, I've had no unusual loss of weight, no loss of activity, probably other smaller factors too. Those "hits" of unfounded depression I get are more than feeling sad. When I get one of those, I have to fight the urge to "shut myself down" - not, not suicidal, but just a feeling that I can't face up to anything; that I don't want to do anything that day. I fight that by trying to be extra active, knowing that as a diabetic I cannot stop being active, but it's a hard thing to shake. Recently a lady on this newgroup asked for participants in a survey on depression. I filled out her questionaire. I even posted her an email (of course getting no reply). One of the questions in the survey was "do you look forward to anything?", and I answered no. Often even things I should look forward to, such as holiday trips, rather than look forward to them, I get stressed thinking about them. I wasn't like that until a couple of years ago, when situations with my work brought me "over the edge". I am now, of course exploring the possibility as to how much my B12 deficiency, if any, may be contributing to this. Henry M. > Often even things I should >look forward to, such as holiday trips, rather than look forward to them, I >get stressed thinking about them. Does it help to know that at least two people up here are looking forward to your next one? Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ latest: Athens and The Adriatic >> Often even things I should >>look forward to, such as holiday trips, rather than look forward to them, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ > latest: Athens and The Adriatic It does very much, Alan. It's the planning for it that sort of deters me. It's the same at work - the current job, although my ranking doesn't at all reflect it, has quite a bit of responsibility. I believe I do it very well - it still occasionally gives me that "feeling" of apprehension. Getting back to diabetes, the hotel we'll be staying at in Coolangatta, Greenmount, is 12 storeys tall. Just as despite my buggered ankle I can ride a bicycle, I found I can also climb stairs slowly (up not down) withm minimal discomfort. The trick is to go up thee 12 floors, take the lift down, then go up the 12 floors again... and again... and again... It's very good exercise. Last time, after one heavier than anticipated meal, I climbed a total of over 100 floors. Came back to the hotel room with a hypo! Tickets and accommodation all paid up. I'm not going to get too stressed about this... See ya soon. Henry. >>> Often even things I should >>>look forward to, such as holiday trips, rather than look forward to them, [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >Henry. I got tired reading that; no stairs to climb here:-) Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ latest: Athens and The Adriatic On Apr 28, 2:17�pm, sassybklynl...@webtv.net (Loretta Eisenberg) wrote: > Kurt, I dont completely agree with those findings. My common sense says > that when a person is depressed, they are more likely to eat anything > and everything, personal experience , and gain weight. When thedepressionis lifted, that person will have better control in almost all > aspects of their lives. > > jmo I tend to agree with you, Loretta. Kurt On Apr 28, 2:17?pm, sassybklynl...@webtv.net (Loretta Eisenberg) wrote: > Kurt, I dont completely agree with those findings. My common sense says > that when a person is depressed, they are more likely to eat anything [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > jmo I tend to agree with you, Loretta. Kurt Changes in BG can cause depression or manic episodes. Metformin can cause a B12 deficiency. B12 deficiency can cause depression. Most GPs are not fully aware of this. Mine did not know it. He prescribed an antidepressant until I informed him of the fact. I got a B12 test done and it turned out low for B12. He never acknowledged that he had made a mistake. He just told me to take B12. > On Apr 28, 2:17?pm, sassybklynl...@webtv.net (Loretta Eisenberg) > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > He never acknowledged that he had made a mistake. > He just told me to take B12. Thank you for that information. A brief Google search has shown credibility to this, and, taking 1500mg Metformin daily, I'll have myself tested for B12 deficiency. Henry M. >> On Apr 28, 2:17?pm, sassybklynl...@webtv.net (Loretta Eisenberg) >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >Henry M. Hi Henry From reading here - I can't remember who or when I read it - I started two supplements to balance meds. First, CoQ10 to balance lipitor (Old Al I think) and later B12 to balance metformin. I've cut the lipitor and thus the CoQ10 but continued the B12, or occasionally a B Complex, ever since I started on metformin. Sorry, I thought you were aware of it or I'd have mentioned it to you earlier. I never had a deficiency, and occasionally I wonder whether it's needed when I look down in the bowl and it's almost fluorescent, but it's one of the few supps I take. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ latest: Athens and The Adriatic >>Thank you for that information. A brief Google search has shown credibility >>to this, and, taking 1500mg Metformin daily, I'll have myself tested for B12 [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >it's needed when I look down in the bowl and it's almost >fluorescent, but it's one of the few supps I take. A PS This was probably the thread that I remembered: http://tinyurl.com/yowqfa Wooly provides this link in that thread: http://tinyurl.com/2355r2 or http://www.bms.com/cgi-bin/anybin.pl?sql=select%20PPI%20from%20TB_PRODUCT_PPI%20 where%20PPI_SEQ=86&key=PPI This appears on page 20: Vitamin B12 levels—In controlled clinical trials of GLUCOPHAGE of 29 weeks duration, a decrease to subnormal levels of previously normal serum vitamin B12 levels, without clinical manifestations, was observed in approximately 7% of patients. Such decrease, possibly due to interference with B12 absorption from the B12-intrinsic factor complex, is, however, very rarely associated with anemia and appears to be rapidly reversible with discontinuation of GLUCOPHAGE or vitamin B12 supplementation. Measurement of hematologic parameters on an annual basis is advised in patients on GLUCOPHAGE or GLUCOPHAGE XR and any apparent abnormalities should be appropriately investigated and managed (see PRECAUTIONS: Laboratory Tests). Certain individuals (those with inadequate vitamin B12 or calcium intake or absorption) appear to be predisposed to developing subnormal vitamin B12 levels. In these patients, routine serum vitamin B12 measurements at two- to three-year intervals may be useful. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ latest: Athens and The Adriatic >>> On Apr 28, 2:17?pm, sassybklynl...@webtv.net (Loretta Eisenberg) >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ > latest: Athens and The Adriatic Thanks Alan. The choice to continue my Metformin even after starting on Lantus and Novorapid was my own, based on readings in asd and diabetic sites. My endo suggested that I stop using it. I will do so now, and see what effect it has. I am having my usual tests done in the next few days, and I will include the relevant B12 test. Henry M. >Kurt, I dont completely agree with those findings. My common sense says >that when a person is depressed, they are more likely to eat anything [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Loretta I agree with you Loretta. I believe a person who is depressed is much more likely to not bother to try to control their BGs than one who is not or a person who was depressed but is not now. -- Grandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ Americans killed in Iraq as of April 26, 2007 is 3,337. United Kingdom = 145 Other = 125. How many more Americans must die to satisfy Bush's ego? As of April 28, 2007 it has been 1476 days since Bush while standing in front of the banner which was sent to the ship by the White House saying MISSION ACCOMPLISHED declared,"In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed." IOW MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis On Apr 28, 4:17 pm, sassybklynl...@webtv.net (Loretta Eisenberg) wrote: > Kurt, I dont completely agree with those findings. My common sense says > that when a person is depressed, they are more likely to eat anything [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > jmo I agree (sort of) and don't agree (sort of). I have taken drugs for depression for years. Currently I take welbutrin and cymbalta (and oddly enough, cymbalta is recommended as an (off label) treatment for fibromyalgia pain and for neuropathy caused by diabetes. I was just recently diagnosed with diabetes, so I am being careful to NOT eat everything in sight (as I know it's bad for me) even though that is one of my common reactions to depression and I am depressed at the moment (due to the fact that I have been diagnosed with diabetes. (Is that convoluted, or what???) There is not necessarily a direct correlation between blood glucose and chemical treatment for depression but I think there is an indirect correlation because, like lots of people have said, when you are depressed you don't take care of yourself. hugs, kitten <<http://tinyurl.com/2lm73l (excerpt) NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Many people with diabetes also feel depressed, which is thought to interfere with their ability to regulate their blood sugar levels well. However, improvements in depressive symptoms don't lead to better control of glucose levels, according to a new report. "While clinical depression should be treated in all patients, treating depressed mood (non-clinical depression) in patients with type 2 diabetes as a strategy to improve glycemic control is not effective," Dr. Richard S. Surwit from Duke University Medical Center, Durham, North Carolina told Reuters Health.>> well, DUH! NO! depression is a symptom. treat the symptom. diabetes is a disease. the routine treatment is diet, exercise, meds. what a waste of money in redundent studies when the money needs to be put toward finding a cure, > <<http://tinyurl.com/2lm73l > (excerpt) [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > what a waste of money in redundent studies when the money needs to be > put toward finding a cure, I disagree with you, especially about the DUH! comment. I don't think it's worthless to look at "does helping a feeling-depressed-mood (but not with "depression") person feel better improve their handling of disease?" It doesn't mean that you aren't *also* using d/e/m. When people feel really down, they often ignore some of the daily grind of, for example, diabetes control. Helping their "down" symptoms -- not necessarily by meds, there are other things one can do -- can help make life seem just a bit more manageable. bj > http://diabetes.org/diabetesnewsarticle.jsp?storyId=14957746&filename=20070426/r euters20070426health00000016reutershealthewEDIT.xml > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Dr. Richard S. Surwit from Duke University Medical Center, Durham, > North Carolina told Reuters Health. Yeah... I already tried smiling my diabetes away... it didn't work. Of course, when I gaily (that's a real word) skip around the house, laughing hysterically and counting my blessings, I do feel more like improving my diet... maybe some researcher missed that part. Then again, when I feel bored, sad, lonely and women won't wrestle with me, I just lay around eating french fries... maybe some researcher missed that part, too. John |
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