Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / April 2007
Hypo with high BGs?
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TheDave© - 14 Apr 2007 05:20 GMT For the second night in a row, I've had this feeling a couple hours after dinner that feels like the hypos I used to have. My numbers have plateaud around 200, which isn't good, but sometimes I'm "feeling" like they're much lower.
We went out for a late dinner, and I kept the carbs relatively low. Steak, steamed broccoli & cauliflower, soup (probably 2 svgs carbs), 1 small slice bread (probably 1 svg carbs), diet coke. Not the 4-5 servings of carbs my dietician recommends for my evening meal.
Two hours later I'm shaky and feeling like I'm in a hypo... but my BGs are 202. I eat a small bite-size candy bar, and I almost immediately stop shaking and feel better and more focused.
I did my 10mcg of Byetta and 1000mg Metformin about 30 minutes before the meal, too.
shoppa@trailing-edge.com - 14 Apr 2007 05:39 GMT > For the second night in a row, I've had this feeling a couple hours > after dinner that feels like the hypos I used to have. My numbers have [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > are 202. I eat a small bite-size candy bar, and I almost immediately > stop shaking and feel better and more focused. The generic rule of thumb when I was taught bg testing: if it feels like a hypo, treat it like a hypo, don't pay too much attention to the test strip. Sounds like you're following that generic rule. I'm not sure that generic rule is the current wisdom or your particular instructions.
Your tests may possibly be wrong - bad strips, bad meter. Could be something sticky on your fingers too.
And sometimes a rapid drop genuinely feels like a hypo, even though you still aren't "low" in the less-than-60 or less-than-70 sense.
If your bg's have been consistently high for a long time, then going lower than your consistently high number can feel like a hypo.
The converse applies too: if my bg's have been consistently lowish for a long time, then I'm less likely to sense a genuine hypo.
Tim.
Julie Bove - 14 Apr 2007 05:46 GMT > For the second night in a row, I've had this feeling a couple hours > after dinner that feels like the hypos I used to have. My numbers have [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I did my 10mcg of Byetta and 1000mg Metformin about 30 minutes before > the meal, too. High BG can cause symptoms just like hypos. And if your BG was high and dropped to lower you can have hypo symptoms. Your dietician might recommend 4-5 servings of carb at your meal, but what would that do to your BG? Would send mine sky high!
I don't take Byetta so I can't comment on that. But Metformin is not a fast acting med and that pill you took with your meal isn't going to have any effect on that meal.
Cougar - 14 Apr 2007 08:34 GMT My BS was averaging 371, then I changed my diet totally and started 2 meds and my BS dropped to about 112. I really felt hypo and my diabetic educator said when it drops that many points it can feel like hypo. I treated it like low, and I felt better. Weird...feels like high anxiety/panic attack too. Like I have to get home fast and away from high stimulus like crowds, bright lights and loud noises. Kris
Ozgirl - 14 Apr 2007 11:25 GMT > My BS was averaging 371, then I changed my diet totally and started 2 meds > and my BS dropped to about 112. I really felt hypo and my diabetic educator [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > bright lights and loud noises. > Kris <nod> Also, when you are used to highs and your bg's start improving with a treatment plan you can feel the hypos symptoms as well. Sometimes just a little fast acting carb can help without blowing the bg out of the water.
TheDave© - 14 Apr 2007 15:03 GMT > Cougar wrote: > My BS was averaging 371, then I changed my diet totally and started 2 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > away from high stimulus like crowds, bright lights and loud noises. > Kris It does kind of feel like that. I get real shaky and irritable and lose focus of what I'm doing. I don't even realize it until I'm well into it.
TheDave© - 14 Apr 2007 15:03 GMT > Julie Bove wrote: > > For the second night in a row, I've had this feeling a couple hours [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > might recommend 4-5 servings of carb at your meal, but what would > that do to your BG? Would send mine sky high! And because I've been struggling with my numbers is why I chose what I did. I passed on the potatoes and went with steamed veggies*, instead. I ate one small piece of bread instead of half a loaf like I would normally be prone to do.
*-I normally hate restaurant steamed veggie because they're overcooked, but these still had some crunch to them and were very good.
Gene - 14 Apr 2007 08:42 GMT > For the second night in a row, I've had this feeling a couple hours > after dinner that feels like the hypos I used to have. My numbers have [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I did my 10mcg of Byetta and 1000mg Metformin about 30 minutes before > the meal, too. When I have a feeling that doesn't match the meter I wash my hands real good and try another test on the opposite hand. I would never go with gut feeling. Maybe that's wrong but after years of flying in the clouds I rely on instruments - not what my body tells me because it is often wrong.
 Signature "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson
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hemyd - 14 Apr 2007 10:50 GMT > For the second night in a row, I've had this feeling a couple hours > after dinner that feels like the hypos I used to have. My numbers have [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I did my 10mcg of Byetta and 1000mg Metformin about 30 minutes before > the meal, too. If you've been riding on high bg for ages, like years, and then you start controlling it, a much lower bg can feel like a hypo even if it's not. When I first realised the power of exercising in lowering my bg, I'd feel very hypoish, but when I measured I'd find that my bg was 90 or more. Your body seems to get used to operating on a higher bg. You can actually feel quite good, but the high bg is doing its damage. Still, I wouldn't have thought you'd feel like having a hypo on a bg of 200.
Henry M.
Ozgirl - 14 Apr 2007 11:23 GMT > For the second night in a row, I've had this feeling a couple hours > after dinner that feels like the hypos I used to have. My numbers have [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I did my 10mcg of Byetta and 1000mg Metformin about 30 minutes before > the meal, too. Maybe 202 wasn't your peak and you had made a fast decrease in bg from something higher. Might pay to test earlier sometimes to get an idea of what the bg's are doing. Fast drops, even while still high can cause hypo type symptoms and these symptoms can actually be treated with more carb. Strange but true.
TheDave© - 14 Apr 2007 15:03 GMT > Ozgirl wrote: > Maybe 202 wasn't your peak and you had made a fast decrease in bg from > something higher. Might pay to test earlier sometimes to get an idea > of what the bg's are doing. Fast drops, even while still high can > cause hypo type symptoms and these symptoms can actually be treated > with more carb. Strange but true. I have been doing very good about testing before dinner, but last night I did not. My post-lunch reading, about 4pm, was 270, so that's all I have to go on. We ate dinner about 8:30pm, and I tested about 10:30pm, when it was 202.
I have had a few instances lately where, when I ate "well" (read: low-carb/fat), my post-meal numbers were actually lower than my pre-meal numbers.
Michelle C. - 14 Apr 2007 20:14 GMT > > Ozgirl wrote: > > Maybe 202 wasn't your peak and you had made a fast decrease in bg from [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > low-carb/fat), my post-meal numbers were actually lower than my > pre-meal numbers. Dave,
Are you checking your BGs at one hour postprandial? If you test at one hour you'll most likely be catching your peak (or pretty close to it). Then check again at 2 hours and you see the drop. Might give a good indication of why you feel hypo.
Michelle C., T2 diet & exercise
Alan S - 15 Apr 2007 01:20 GMT >> Ozgirl wrote: >> Maybe 202 wasn't your peak and you had made a fast decrease in bg from [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >low-carb/fat), my post-meal numbers were actually lower than my >pre-meal numbers. The implication in your opening post was that was when the "hypo" occurred. How long was it between the hypo and the test time? Was it before or after?
A reactive hypo is usually preceded by a high. At least, it always was in my own case.
Incidentally, those numbers are much too high; start testing more after dinner and review the meal as a consequence to change it next time for lower results. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/ http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ latest: Athens and The Adriatic
TheDave© - 16 Apr 2007 03:37 GMT > Alan S wrote: > The implication in your opening post was that was when the > "hypo" occurred. How long was it between the hypo and the > test time? Was it before or after? In this instance they were one and the same. I was feeling the "hypo" right at about 2 hrs after mealtime, so that reading serves for both.
FWIW, today I had a reading of 190. Still not good, I know, but it was my first reading under 200 in about a week so I was pleased that things were headed in the right direction.
Nicky - 14 Apr 2007 11:37 GMT >We went out for a late dinner, and I kept the carbs relatively low. >Steak, steamed broccoli & cauliflower, soup (probably 2 svgs carbs), 1 >small slice bread (probably 1 svg carbs), diet coke. Not the 4-5 >servings of carbs my dietician recommends for my evening meal. Shoot the dietician. Find out for yourself what a safe number of carbs is for you. http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm
>Two hours later I'm shaky and feeling like I'm in a hypo... but my BGs >are 202. I eat a small bite-size candy bar, and I almost immediately >stop shaking and feel better and more focused. Sounds very much like a rate-of-change hypo. They can be really debilitating!
What you ate doesn't sound like it should send you bouncing like that, though. Did you test the coke, if it was from a fountain?
Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.5% BMI 25
TheDave© - 14 Apr 2007 15:03 GMT > Nicky wrote: > > We went out for a late dinner, and I kept the carbs relatively low. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > is for you. > http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm In normal times I think the dietician's suggestion would probably be ok, but I'm wondering if something else is going on with me that we haven't quite worked out, yet.
> > Two hours later I'm shaky and feeling like I'm in a hypo... but my > > BGs are 202. I eat a small bite-size candy bar, and I almost [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > What you ate doesn't sound like it should send you bouncing like that, > though. Did you test the coke, if it was from a fountain? It was from a fountain, yes. How do you test it?
This particular restaurant does have a lemonade slushy-type drink that is very good, but I passed on that, too.
Nicky - 15 Apr 2007 16:17 GMT >> What you ate doesn't sound like it should send you bouncing like that, >> though. Did you test the coke, if it was from a fountain? > >It was from a fountain, yes. How do you test it? Get some of those strips that test sugar in urine - they're very cheap from pharmacists. You then just dip the strip in the drink (or if you're interested in the carb content of a sauce or something, chew it a bit and put the strip on your tongue). The strips have saved me at least 3 times from soda-fountain screwups.
Nicky. T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid D&E, 100ug thyroxine Last A1c 5.5% BMI 25
TheDave© - 16 Apr 2007 03:40 GMT > Nicky wrote: > Get some of those strips that test sugar in urine - they're very cheap > from pharmacists. You then just dip the strip in the drink (or if > you're interested in the carb content of a sauce or something, chew it > a bit and put the strip on your tongue). The strips have saved me at > least 3 times from soda-fountain screwups. Good idea. Thanks.
Loretta Eisenberg - 14 Apr 2007 16:22 GMT I am sure that you are aware that technically 202 is very high. I dont know how high you were before this. If your numbers were in the three and four hundred range, then going down to 202 would give you the shakes.
As to what your dietician suggests that is the advice they all give to diabetics. Instead of counting carbs, you need to test before you eat and eat to your meter. I was told once by someone in the group that I shoudlnt eat carbs over 110, I dont follow that rule because with medication the numbers are stabilized, but if I was over 120 I wouldnt eat carbs. Fortunately my before meal readings are around 95 to 105. Testing is your best tool. Guesswork doesnt do the job.
It will take some time but your body will adjust as yournumbers go lower and lower, 202 is much too high for a type II, I am assuming you are a type II, better check this out. Loretta
TheDave© - 14 Apr 2007 16:54 GMT > Loretta Eisenberg wrote: > I am sure that you are aware that technically 202 is very high. I [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > you are a type II, better check this out. > Loretta Yes, I'm T2 and know 202 is very high. Diagnosed in 2001 and historically have been fine until sometime last year when things started to change. Granted, I did "fall off the boat" for a short while, and I'm sure some of this is self-induced, but we have all been working to get it back down, but it's not working as well as hoped. I seem to have plateaud around the 200 mark, which is not good.
Loretta Eisenberg - 14 Apr 2007 21:31 GMT Dave, maybe you need to be on insulin. Lots of t2s go on it for the same reason that you would have
Loretta
TheDave© - 16 Apr 2007 03:40 GMT > Loretta Eisenberg wrote: > Dave, maybe you need to be on insulin. Lots of t2s go on it for the > same reason that you would have It has been suggested as an eventual possibility, but we're wanting to give the Byetta a chance first.
Ozgirl - 15 Apr 2007 02:15 GMT > > Loretta Eisenberg wrote: > > I am sure that you are aware that technically 202 is very high. I [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > working to get it back down, but it's not working as well as hoped. I > seem to have plateaud around the 200 mark, which is not good. This is the "diabetic progression" people talk about. Each time you fall off the boat, and I don't mean for a day or 7, you do more damage to the beta cells. In the real world it is hard to stay good all the time, but it really is in a type 2's best interests to avoid doing further damage. Sometimes it can't be helped, like when one has to have steroids for example. You might need more help now to achieve the numbers you were getting before the fall. Wherever possible avoid high PP's even if they do fall back within normal range. This can have the same effect eventually as falling off the boat.
TheDave© - 16 Apr 2007 03:40 GMT > Ozgirl wrote: > This is the "diabetic progression" people talk about. Each time you [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > range. This can have the same effect eventually as falling off the > boat. High PPs? Post-prandials?
Ozgirl - 16 Apr 2007 03:47 GMT > > Ozgirl wrote: > > This is the "diabetic progression" people talk about. Each time you [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > High PPs? Post-prandials? Yes, sorry, post prandials.
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