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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / April 2007

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Affect of fat on BG?

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Michelle C. - 12 Apr 2007 17:38 GMT
I realize that eating fat can delay a spike--the pizza affect--but
does it also blunt the spike?

Thanks!

Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
shoppa@trailing-edge.com - 12 Apr 2007 20:20 GMT
> I realize that eating fat can delay a spike--the pizza affect--but
> does it also blunt the spike?

In my case (a T1), no. Many of those fats and proteins get converted
by the body to carbs and even though at the one or two hour stage they
were holding back the bg from spiking, eventually they drive it up
even more until I take extra insulin to bring it back down.

Somebody with a pancreas still making their own insulin might be
different than me.

I should also point out that some of the low carb (thin crust) pizzas
do a surprisingly good job of not doing anything to raise my bg's.

Tim.
W. Baker - 12 Apr 2007 20:45 GMT
: > I realize that eating fat can delay a spike--the pizza affect--but
: > does it also blunt the spike?

: In my case (a T1), no. Many of those fats and proteins get converted
: by the body to carbs and even though at the one or two hour stage they
: were holding back the bg from spiking, eventually they drive it up
: even more until I take extra insulin to bring it back down.

: Somebody with a pancreas still making their own insulin might be
: different than me.

: I should also point out that some of the low carb (thin crust) pizzas
: do a surprisingly good job of not doing anything to raise my bg's.

: Tim.

I think you are right about those of us who still mmake insulin.  By
spreading out the carb digestion you MAY not get as high a spike just a
long elevation.  Not always though.

Wendy
Michelle C. - 12 Apr 2007 22:48 GMT
On Apr 12, 12:20 pm, sho...@trailing-edge.com wrote:

> > I realize that eating fat can delay a spike--the pizza affect--but
> > does it also blunt the spike?
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Tim.

Hi Tim,

Thanks for your response.  Perhaps with those of us who still make
some insulin, the delay caused by fat would give us a chance to get
our phase II response going.  But I see you're point--the carbs will
eventually have to be dealt with one way or another.

Thanks!
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
rk - 12 Apr 2007 23:07 GMT
> On Apr 12, 12:20 pm, sho...@trailing-edge.com wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> Michelle C., T2
> diet & exercise

It also goes to reason, this is why I think some type 2's think that
protein
doesn't effect them.  As a T2, you have insulin to cover the small rise one
would see with Protein after it gets converted.  As a T1, we don't have any
natural insulin to cover the rise, therefore we see the effects *IF* we
don't
shoot to cover it when it hits, which is usually around 5-6hrs from what
I've
tested to see.  Same with non-diabetics, food effects them the same way
as it does us, they just have enough insulin to cover the effects so their
bg's
don't rise like a diabetics does.

Signature

Reisa, T1
dx-5/00 asd-7/00
Animas IR1250 pumper
Symlin 1u, 30gm meals
Daily CHO: 150-175gm
TDD: 36-38u
Last A1C: coming down.

TheDave© - 12 Apr 2007 21:10 GMT
> Michelle C. wrote:
> I realize that eating fat can delay a spike--the pizza affect--but
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Michelle C., T2
> diet & exercise

Pizza specifically does not spike me anywhere near what one would think
it should.  Not that I'm complaining, of course.
Michelle C. - 12 Apr 2007 22:49 GMT
> > Michelle C. wrote:
> > I realize that eating fat can delay a spike--the pizza affect--but
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Pizza specifically does not spike me anywhere near what one would think
> it should.  Not that I'm complaining, of course.

I wouldn't be complaining either.  :-)

Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
Alan S - 12 Apr 2007 22:49 GMT
>> Michelle C. wrote:
>> I realize that eating fat can delay a spike--the pizza affect--but
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Pizza specifically does not spike me anywhere near what one would think
>it should.  Not that I'm complaining, of course.

Some of us have found that pizza ( and similar high-carb
high-fat foods) spike later and longer, but with a lower
peak. There are no studies that I'm aware of to show which
is more damaging (if either): a high, short duration, spike
or a long "pizza effect" spike with a greater "area under
the curve". So I try to minimise both until the jury comes
in.

What time after eating are you testing, and do you add later
tests after pizza to see if it peaks later than other foods?

For another diabetic's investigation of "area under the
curve" read Derek Paice's e-book:
http://www.mendosa.com/DiabetesAndDiet.pdf

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Athens and The Adriatic
TheDave© - 13 Apr 2007 02:38 GMT
> Alan S wrote:
> What time after eating are you testing, and do you add later
> tests after pizza to see if it peaks later than other foods?

About two hours, same as any other meal.  I haven't thought about
testing again later specifically because of pizza, but I may next time
I have it.
Alan S - 13 Apr 2007 03:37 GMT
>> Alan S wrote:
>> What time after eating are you testing, and do you add later
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>testing again later specifically because of pizza, but I may next time
>I have it.

I know I'm a cracked record:-)

Dave, please read this
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm
and this:
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/11/when-to-test-one-hour-or-two-hour.html


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Athens and The Adriatic
Billie - 13 Apr 2007 04:43 GMT
:> Alan S wrote:
: > What time after eating are you testing, and do you add later
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
: testing again later specifically because of pizza, but I may next time
: I have it.

Try it.

Billie
TheDave© - 13 Apr 2007 14:53 GMT
> Billie wrote:
> : > What time after eating are you testing, and do you add later
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Try it.

Are you people suggesting I have pizza tonight?
shoot@llspammersOnsite.com - 13 Apr 2007 01:55 GMT
>> Michelle C. wrote:
>> I realize that eating fat can delay a spike--the pizza affect--but
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Pizza specifically does not spike me anywhere near what one would think
>it should.  Not that I'm complaining, of course.

At what times post prandial have you tested?

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Ozgirl - 12 Apr 2007 22:28 GMT
> I realize that eating fat can delay a spike--the pizza affect--but
> does it also blunt the spike?

It can but some of the higher glycemic carbs can be processed early and
still spike. Let's say you had pineapple on the pizza, that is one item that
could be processed straight away and cause a spike.

I know one type 1 - Beav - who uses Mars bars for hypos. Having a high fat
content in a meal doesn't guarantee no spike. It can make for some late
surprises though, the spike 3-4 hours down the track.
Michelle C. - 12 Apr 2007 22:56 GMT
> > I realize that eating fat can delay a spike--the pizza affect--but
> > does it also blunt the spike?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> content in a meal doesn't guarantee no spike. It can make for some late
> surprises though, the spike 3-4 hours down the track.

Thanks Ozgirl,

Good point about the pineapple.  It would seem that if the fat
provided the opportunity for the phase II response to get going, it
might blunt the spike a bit, but really, the point is that carb has to
be dealt with at some point or another.

Hey, I'm glad you popped in because I have a question for you.  I'm
tweaking my diet/eating habits and think that spreading my meals/
snacks out even further could be of benefit.  As it is now, I eat
three meals (small) and two snacks.  You've mentioned eating 9 times
per day.  Do you mind if I ask what your eating schedule is.  I can't
quite get my head around it.  ;-)

Thanks again,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exericse
Ozgirl - 13 Apr 2007 04:37 GMT
> > > I realize that eating fat can delay a spike--the pizza affect--but
> > > does it also blunt the spike?
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> per day.  Do you mind if I ask what your eating schedule is.  I can't
> quite get my head around it.  ;-)

Which bit? the timing? I eat roughly every two hours of awake time. The type
and amount of carb is important too. Before breakfast a small glass of
chilled tomato juice sustains me for a 45 minute run with my dog. I can't
eat a lot of carb at breakfast without spiking so I roughly eat around 10 gr
carb plus some protein. 2 hours later I am ravenous so I usually have a
smoothie made of plain low fat yoghurt blended with brewer's yeast,
strawberries or frozen blueberries and some Splenda.

Next snack is around 2 hours later and is often just an apple or peach or
mandarin, depending on the season.

Lunch is next, where I almost always have a large plate of salad veggies
plus some salmon or tuna, occasionally some cold deli - ham, roast beef or
pork etc (vinaigrette dressing or some mayo).

First afternoon snack is often a rye crispbread spread with cottage cheese
and tomato slices.

Next snack might be fruit again, a pear or peach etc.

Then comes dinner - always a large variety of low carb vegetables cooked,
3-4 ounces of protein, more if it is fish which is often, plus a side salad
with vinaigrette.

Evening snack might be a low fat low carb yoghurt or a bowl of leftover
veggies eaten with a sprinkle of dried parmesan after heating. Before bed I
have lately been eating 4 dried apricot halves.

In between I drink plenty of water and the occasional cup of tea (usually
breakfast).

Basically I make meals around low fat animal proteins (sometimes beans
though), mostly seafood, some eggs, some low fat cheese plus occasional brie
or fetta, olives avocados, walnuts, low fat yoghurts, low carb veggies, raw
and cooked, salsas, hommus, some fruits, olive oil (stir fry and
vinaigrettes), cholesterol lowering margarines, rye crackers in moderation.
I aim for a wide variety especially in the vegetables, different colours and
lots of fibrousy vegetables.

An example of so far today:

Breakfast was slice of low carb grain bread spread with cholesterol lowering
margarine and sugar free jam. Plus a soft boiled egg and cup of tea with a
dash of skimmed milk.

First snack was a strawberry smoothie (yoghurt, strawberries, brewer's yeast
and Splenda).

Second snack was an apple and bite of chocolate bar - Peppermint Crisp - a
daughter bought for me but I refused it so she it all but a bite :)

Lunch I just finished. I had about 1/3 cup of spigot bolegnese (the very
thin spigot), a pile of raw mushrooms, 2 celery sticks, some iceburg lettuce
and mayo. The vegetable part wasn't as highly nutritious as usual but I had
been on the go doing things around the house all morning and felt like
something quick and easy. I will pick up later in the day on anything I have
missed nutrition-wise.

My daughter melted full fat cheese over her bolegnese but I had mine "bare".
I fully expect a rise from the spigot rather soon (something I try to
avoid). Yep just tested, less than half an hour since I finished eating and
I have gone from 5.2 to 7.8. I don't eat spigot much because of this so I
sorta expected a significant rise.

I have a lot on this afternoon (vacuuming, more hanging out washing etc,
plus a couple of bathrooms to clean) so that will get me back to normal
pretty soon. I just don't like having these kinds of rises frequently.  I
probably should have just made the effort to open a can of salmon.

I am not sure what the afternoon snacks will be yet but for dinner my kids
want the new Dominos Meat Pie Pizzas which look just like a Shepherd's Pie
which they love! I will probably have some baked fresh salmon with the usual
veggies and salad and a nibble of that pizza to know what it tastes like :)
Nicky - 13 Apr 2007 08:33 GMT
>Lunch I just finished. I had about 1/3 cup of spigot bolegnese (the very
>thin spigot)

What's spigot, Jan? - new word on me!

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.5%  BMI 25
Ozgirl - 13 Apr 2007 10:05 GMT
> >Lunch I just finished. I had about 1/3 cup of spigot bolegnese (the very
> >thin spigot)
>
> What's spigot, Jan? - new word on me!

Interesting, I wrote spagetti but the spellchecker wanted spaghetti, so I
agreed with it ;) Somehow the gremlins decided spigot was a better
alternative.
Alan S - 13 Apr 2007 10:48 GMT
>> >Lunch I just finished. I had about 1/3 cup of spigot bolegnese (the very
>> >thin spigot)
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>agreed with it ;) Somehow the gremlins decided spigot was a better
>alternative.

I was wondering how you managed to eat pasta taps:-)


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Athens and The Adriatic
Ozgirl - 13 Apr 2007 11:01 GMT
> >> >Lunch I just finished. I had about 1/3 cup of spigot bolegnese (the very
> >> >thin spigot)
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> >
> I was wondering how you managed to eat pasta taps:-)

Well they won't raise the bg :p
Ricavito - 14 Apr 2007 04:49 GMT
> > >> >Lunch I just finished. I had about 1/3 cup of spigot bolegnese (the
> very
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, you put me to shame.  Here's the crappy meals I had today.  For
breakfast around 8:00 I had a cup of strong coffee with a couple of
tablespoons of half and half and a cheese danish.  For lunch I had a
diet soda around 1 pm.  For dinner around 7:30 I was pretty hungry
even with the byetta and I had most of a ham and brie sandwich on
grilled sourdough with artichokes and mayo, about 1/4 cup of potato
salad with lots of mayo, and about two cups of Greek salad (lettuces,
tomato, red onion, cucumber, black olives, feta cheese drizzled with
EVOO and red wine vinegar).  Can you tell I ate out today :-)
Ozgirl - 14 Apr 2007 12:04 GMT
> > > >> >Lunch I just finished. I had about 1/3 cup of spigot bolegnese (the
> > very
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> tomato, red onion, cucumber, black olives, feta cheese drizzled with
> EVOO and red wine vinegar).  Can you tell I ate out today :-)

Well that was better than my day, lol. I had to attend a funeral in Sydney
and it was 10.45 am. I ate breakfast at 5.30 am, just a slice of grain bread
toasted spread with PB and low sugar jam, cuppa with a dash of milk.

At 10 I was still on the road so had two wafer biscuits with cream centres
and a swig of water. At the wake which was in a club I had 3 x 1/4
sandwiches with various fillings (curried egg, meat and salad etc), 2 mini
spring rolls and few potato wedges with sour cream and sweet chilli sauce, 2
diet cokes and a cup of tea. Stopped at brother's on way home seeing we were
in the area and had cappuccino, real sugar and a couple of sweet biscuits.

Wasn't going to cook when I got home but my son asked for dinner the second
I walked in the door so I cooked a chicken stir fry, all done in 10 minutes.
Tomorrow is another day. Generally I can find better foods at most places
but at the club it was the choice of the catered food or a bag of crisps
from the bar.
Ricavito - 16 Apr 2007 01:53 GMT
> > > "Alan S" <loralgtweightandca...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

lol, those are the days not to test because you know it won't be
good.  Eating out is a real challenge for me sometimes, and I often
have to do it because work takes me on the road often.  For the
inevitable times when fast food is the only option, I usually try to
talk everyone into a fastfood place here called Subway--they make
sandwiches to order and you can get an all veggie one, or turkey, etc.
with low carb wrap or wheat roll.  I watch them make it, so there's I
know exactly what I'm eating.  But more often than not, I'm trying to
make breakfast at $tarbucks.
Ozgirl - 16 Apr 2007 02:29 GMT
> > > > "Alan S" <loralgtweightandca...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
> know exactly what I'm eating.  But more often than not, I'm trying to
> make breakfast at $tarbucks.

I only started seeing low carb wraps at Subway very recently. I usually have
the Subway salad. They make up a salad plate with whatever salad veggies you
want and any proteins and dressing.
TheDave© - 13 Apr 2007 14:55 GMT
> Ozgirl wrote:
> > > Lunch I just finished. I had about 1/3 cup of spigot bolegnese
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> so I agreed with it ;) Somehow the gremlins decided spigot was a
> better alternative.

I was wonder what spigot was, too.  Like Alan, I envisioned water
hardware.
Ozgirl - 13 Apr 2007 21:43 GMT
> > Ozgirl wrote:
> > > > Lunch I just finished. I had about 1/3 cup of spigot bolegnese
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I was wonder what spigot was, too.  Like Alan, I envisioned water
> hardware.

Lol, I go into a dream when the spellchecker is doing it's thing.
Nicky - 14 Apr 2007 10:08 GMT
>> >Lunch I just finished. I had about 1/3 cup of spigot bolegnese (the very
>> >thin spigot)
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>agreed with it ;) Somehow the gremlins decided spigot was a better
>alternative.

ROFL! Technology, makes communication so much clearer : )

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.5%  BMI 25
Michelle C. - 13 Apr 2007 19:42 GMT
> > Hey, I'm glad you popped in because I have a question for you.  I'm
> > tweaking my diet/eating habits and think that spreading my meals/
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Which bit? the timing? I eat roughly every two hours of awake time. The type
> and amount of carb is important too.

Thank you!  That was a very full description.  :-)  Actually, it was
the timing that was initially a puzzle to me, but seeing the timing
and the size of the snack together really helped.  Although I've been
eating to my meter for a year and half, I am slowly losing ground.  (I
suspect I have some version of MODY since I don't fit the straight T2
profile.)  So am looking for ways to tweak my eating habits to extend
my ability to use just diet and exercise--at least for as long as
possible.  I believe an eating pattern similar to yours may be quite
helpful.

Again, my thanks!
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
TheDave© - 13 Apr 2007 02:38 GMT
> Ozgirl wrote:
> Let's say you had pineapple on the pizza,

The Pizza-gods are not happy over that idea.  :-p
 
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